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what he's saying about jack smith and this type of probe. take a look. >> they're breaking every law to persecute us. it's been one witch hunt and phony investigation after another. these are ridiculous indictments. the single greatest witch hunt of all time. it's all run by the doj. it's crooked stuff. they're crooked people. deranged jack smith. they had no -- i got four indictments. >> is he right or wrong? >> i mean, the way i see it, if these were his personal -- personal documents and -- or he's allowed to have these by the pra, why would you need to ask questions about video footage? why would you possibly move the documents when they are coming to retrieve them? to me it just doesn't make any sense. on top of that, why would you put two lower level employees in the position they're in if you did nothing wrong and these are your own -- these are your personal documents? >> so you're saying that in the way that he acted, trying to hide, and the people that he brought into it, you think you observed part of a coverup? >> i -- i -- i thi
what he's saying about jack smith and this type of probe. take a look. >> they're breaking every law to persecute us. it's been one witch hunt and phony investigation after another. these are ridiculous indictments. the single greatest witch hunt of all time. it's all run by the doj. it's crooked stuff. they're crooked people. deranged jack smith. they had no -- i got four indictments. >> is he right or wrong? >> i mean, the way i see it, if these were his personal -- personal...
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so i can see jack smith trying to do that. but just remember, he has to be thinking it is the start date unconcerned about. and, if you just, i did not do math in public, -- >> neither do i. i try i try not to. >> it is just not, it is just not looking good. that is all assuming that the supreme court does not do things to delay the case further, and there are various outcomes that it could. >> right, i'm operating in best- case mario here. >> yeah, but that, is you know, when you put your mind in your head in jack smith's thinking, he has -- not best-case an area, so he is thinking you know what, i have a very strong case in the classified documents case, i mean he has to be thinking this has jury appeal, it is not just the retention of classified documents, it is two forms of obstruction, by all accounts it looks like an incredibly strong case. we still have not heard any defense from the former president that passes the straight face test. honestly we will see what happens at trial. so he seems to be thinking okay let's see
so i can see jack smith trying to do that. but just remember, he has to be thinking it is the start date unconcerned about. and, if you just, i did not do math in public, -- >> neither do i. i try i try not to. >> it is just not, it is just not looking good. that is all assuming that the supreme court does not do things to delay the case further, and there are various outcomes that it could. >> right, i'm operating in best- case mario here. >> yeah, but that, is you...
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Mar 6, 2024
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on those charges brought by special counsel jack smith. and then there are another of other trump related cases including ones a little bit more amusing there's a trademark dispute over the phrase a trump too small a california man who does not care for the former president was to trademark that phrase. and sellar t-shirts and knickknacks displaying it. the biden administration is opposing him and said you cannot trademark the name of a political candidate against tha. canvas wishes. t the biden administration defendant donald trump interest in that use of his own name. we have a whole range of different cases from amusing to the deadly serious involving mr. >> wall street journal supreme court correspondent thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you for having me. ♪ c spans a "washington journal" our live form involving you to discuss the latest issues in government, politics, public policy. from washington and across the country. coming up wednesday morning david weigle discusses the super tuesday results. what they mean for the pr
on those charges brought by special counsel jack smith. and then there are another of other trump related cases including ones a little bit more amusing there's a trademark dispute over the phrase a trump too small a california man who does not care for the former president was to trademark that phrase. and sellar t-shirts and knickknacks displaying it. the biden administration is opposing him and said you cannot trademark the name of a political candidate against tha. canvas wishes. t the...
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Mar 2, 2024
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okay, it's a couple of weeks apart, jack smith and trump. but does this mean that we are very likely to see the -- case then begin before the fall? or could the judge still do other things? >> the judge still could do other things. it's, and i think with this particular judge, it is pretty hard to predict where she comes out. my guess is they're -- betting that she goes with the trump proposed dayton with the smith proposed state. it's going to depend on her calendar. but again, what surprises me most about this is that, it's what it tells us i think that jacks mitt is saying, there ain't no way i'm getting to this election case before the election. >> fascinating. and again, it's been a flurry of filings. because this leading candidate for the republican nomination is also a defendant in several different jurisdictions. david, i'm going to tell you this. and i'm not just saying this because of our history. we appreciate your arguments, and your counter arguments. >> when we come back, -- choice, and your rights. stay with us. -- choice, and
okay, it's a couple of weeks apart, jack smith and trump. but does this mean that we are very likely to see the -- case then begin before the fall? or could the judge still do other things? >> the judge still could do other things. it's, and i think with this particular judge, it is pretty hard to predict where she comes out. my guess is they're -- betting that she goes with the trump proposed dayton with the smith proposed state. it's going to depend on her calendar. but again, what...
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jack smith mean for trump? >> well, erin, what you're seeing is prosecutors trying to find a way to box out the former president and his legal team. because as you as you noted, what they're trying to do is delay this to the point where it makes it impossible for tanya chutkan and the dc trial to find find room on the calendar. they know that obviously, given the fact that this that the that the immunity question is now before the supreme court we anticipate that what they're going to do is look for something that will make sure that that the dc judge doesn't have room on the calendar between now and november to sketch chilling new trial. and so what jack smith is doing here in making this request is trying to at least have the judge in in in florida put a put on the calendar a date of july 8th. now, we don't know whether she'll go for this. there are a lot of complicated issues because this has to do with classified info aileen cannon, the judge, there has pretty much been been helpful with the former presiden
jack smith mean for trump? >> well, erin, what you're seeing is prosecutors trying to find a way to box out the former president and his legal team. because as you as you noted, what they're trying to do is delay this to the point where it makes it impossible for tanya chutkan and the dc trial to find find room on the calendar. they know that obviously, given the fact that this that the that the immunity question is now before the supreme court we anticipate that what they're going to do...
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smith gets his way and gets this july 8th start so if jack smith gets a july 8 start, we do probably get a verdict before the election. and so there are two routes. one is based on jack smith's own estimation, you'd probably get the end of trial around august 19, trump's estimation is it's going to take a longer period of time for the trial so that you get a verdict and the end of trial around september 16th. but both of those, uh, well, before both the alliance, while before the election, that's right. so that's why the july 8 and whether or not the judge cannon goes with the justice department is key to that outcome. >> so ben doesn't mean do you think there's any coincidence that smith makes this move a day after the supreme court said it would hear arguments on trump's immunity while he's in office. and they said that they're going to take that up and that means that likely will not get a verdict by election day in any scenario. >> it does mean that it means the florida case is the one that can move forward. the quickest. >> i >> don't think it's an accident, but i think this hea
smith gets his way and gets this july 8th start so if jack smith gets a july 8 start, we do probably get a verdict before the election. and so there are two routes. one is based on jack smith's own estimation, you'd probably get the end of trial around august 19, trump's estimation is it's going to take a longer period of time for the trial so that you get a verdict and the end of trial around september 16th. but both of those, uh, well, before both the alliance, while before the election,...
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i find it unimaginable that jack smith had any knowledge that mr. mueller was going to come forward with this because i know that that is the last thing he wants. and he has a strong stance against attaining juries. i also, in my own mind, as an attorney, have some questions about his lawyer was thinking in letting him, in letting him go on with this. on the other hand, there is significant factual support for the evidence that he laid out. and they can prove almost everything he talked about without him. he adds color, significant, but keep in mind they have a lot of this stuff on video. they have testimony from other people who participated in mar- a-lago in terms of assisting mr. de la vega and some of the obstruction activity. i don't think it is not harmful but it is highly unusual and i am sure that we will see mr. butler again on tv. you have said that if donald trump doesn't win, he is going to jail. you are confident that these trials are actually going to happen? >> well, i am confident that it will happen at some point if he is not the el
i find it unimaginable that jack smith had any knowledge that mr. mueller was going to come forward with this because i know that that is the last thing he wants. and he has a strong stance against attaining juries. i also, in my own mind, as an attorney, have some questions about his lawyer was thinking in letting him, in letting him go on with this. on the other hand, there is significant factual support for the evidence that he laid out. and they can prove almost everything he talked about...
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jack smith is saying, wait a minute. not only were these not your own personal property, this is some of the most sensitive military information, reportedly including even nuclear secrets. >> classify, exactly. news book reports that jack smith is set to fire language coded briefs, if you well. so the public cannot learn the names of the witnesses for fear they could be put in harm's way. could judge cannon decide she wants the names unredacted. >> reporter: ciardi has decided and that is when jack smith went nuclear. we don't see him making any kind of statements. his expression in the courtroom when the judge was thinking about making the names public, he was apocalyptic. he says what we all know that when people were trying to hold trump accountable and their names were made public. terrible things happen to them. there is 24 witnesses who trump wants to hold -- wants to have the whole world know. jack said, it is just wrong, even on the lot but even on the cases the judge sites to support her rolling don't say what s
jack smith is saying, wait a minute. not only were these not your own personal property, this is some of the most sensitive military information, reportedly including even nuclear secrets. >> classify, exactly. news book reports that jack smith is set to fire language coded briefs, if you well. so the public cannot learn the names of the witnesses for fear they could be put in harm's way. could judge cannon decide she wants the names unredacted. >> reporter: ciardi has decided and...
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feet jack smith drag his feet. you got to remember i wasn't part of this case during the investigative phases. they could have brought this indictment much earlier. they didn't at the time we had mar-a-lago, which was going very fast that's a lot of activity. january 6, which was sitting there pretty much at a standstill. all the sudden, he brings his snap indictment and all of a sudden the next few weeks realize, oh, shoot, i forgot to interview a whole bunch of witnesses. the timing of the indictment is something that's control. another thing >> all right. we'll leave it there doj are >> confusion. like that? >> well, we'll leave it there with the two of you on that one. does that conversation i think it doesn't matter. it's doj >> i think that's a longer conversation. we'll have to continue another de elie, mr.. tim parlatore. thank you both very much >> thank you. >> and next, the dual at the border, the rhetoric, the promises, and biden's dare her to donald trump standby >> my best reputation is ruined. >> it'
feet jack smith drag his feet. you got to remember i wasn't part of this case during the investigative phases. they could have brought this indictment much earlier. they didn't at the time we had mar-a-lago, which was going very fast that's a lot of activity. january 6, which was sitting there pretty much at a standstill. all the sudden, he brings his snap indictment and all of a sudden the next few weeks realize, oh, shoot, i forgot to interview a whole bunch of witnesses. the timing of the...
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jack smith said as he is ready july 8th. donald trump's team said they could do august 12th if they have to. it remains to be seen what judge can and will do. it ended around 3:00 this afternoon. >> and donald trump was there. >> donald trump was in the courtroom, jack smith was in the courtroom, neither spoke. something interesting is in the southern district of florida, there are four locations where this trial could be held. it is possible she could move to west palm beach and i say possible because donald trump is commuting 70 miles from palm beach in a motorcade. if there is a trial that lasts ten weeks, it could take five weeks apiece. he could be motorcade eating every single day. >> it still means a case before the election in the case could be adjudicated and done before the election. >> if you add on the ten weeks in the middle of august, this is another important point, middle august, mid-september and october and in another two weeks it could add with a verdict right near the actual election. we have to see what
jack smith said as he is ready july 8th. donald trump's team said they could do august 12th if they have to. it remains to be seen what judge can and will do. it ended around 3:00 this afternoon. >> and donald trump was there. >> donald trump was in the courtroom, jack smith was in the courtroom, neither spoke. something interesting is in the southern district of florida, there are four locations where this trial could be held. it is possible she could move to west palm beach and i...
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jack smith of course is not a principal officer. inferior officers can be appointed if congress by law vests in the head of the cabinet department the power to appoint a senior officer. congress has passed no law vesting the attorney general the power to appoint a special counsel like jack smith. congress has a vested power to appointed inferior officers and the secretaries of energy, education, transportation and hhs it has not done so with the justice department when therefore jack smith appointment is illegal and unconstitutional. every single thing he has done since he was appointed a year end a half ago is illegal, no and void. >> i want the american people to understand your background. you used to serve as a top legal advisor to a former attorney general of the united states you and i worked with the office of legal counsel which is considered that legal constitutional brain trust of the federal government. you are not coming out of left field you are looking at the constitution, you are looking at the statutes and saying thi
jack smith of course is not a principal officer. inferior officers can be appointed if congress by law vests in the head of the cabinet department the power to appoint a senior officer. congress has passed no law vesting the attorney general the power to appoint a special counsel like jack smith. congress has a vested power to appointed inferior officers and the secretaries of energy, education, transportation and hhs it has not done so with the justice department when therefore jack smith...
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but jack smith come i don't think there is any better. letitia james is terrible and get iowa, and it goes before a campaigning judge. the whole thing is a rigged deal. the public understands it. i'm lucky that i'm able to explain it to the public because if you were not able to explain it, the public wouldn't know. they would believe what they see. so i don't want to win this way. look, i want to win based on my policies are better. we will cut taxes, get interest rates down, buy homes again. you can't buy a home today because the interest rates are so high. i want to win unsafe borders and stop wars, stop the war in ukraine with russia. i want to stop what is happening in israel. israel would never be attacked if i were president. ukraine would never ever be attacked if i was president. you would not have had inflation. inflation was caused by high energy prices. i would have kept them down easily. and probably maybe caused were with ukraine because putin became rich all of a sudden. it went up so much and i watch president biden talkin
but jack smith come i don't think there is any better. letitia james is terrible and get iowa, and it goes before a campaigning judge. the whole thing is a rigged deal. the public understands it. i'm lucky that i'm able to explain it to the public because if you were not able to explain it, the public wouldn't know. they would believe what they see. so i don't want to win this way. look, i want to win based on my policies are better. we will cut taxes, get interest rates down, buy homes again....
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jack smith has moved expeditiously. so trump is doing what any defendant would do in that case, but he'd run out of time if garland had gotten off the dime. that's the bottom line. what else? i love this part of the show, you know, i do if people don't vote third party, this cycle, they never will. i have to say, eric in god if i'm talking about the 2028 election, i'm not talking about third-party candidacies. if this cycle doesn't at least produce a legitimate three-way or three-way plus contest where somebody gets on the debate stage, right? allah? ross perot, then i to give up, i to give up because this, according to all the data is the cycle where people are yearning. gallup says a plurality or independence than not publicans or democrats. people want a choice. >> give it to them. one more. if i've got time not closing the border will cost biden the election. he cannot win private account. i got to say that poll today, the combination of the gallup data and mohammad yunus, the editor in chief, dissected it for us. a
jack smith has moved expeditiously. so trump is doing what any defendant would do in that case, but he'd run out of time if garland had gotten off the dime. that's the bottom line. what else? i love this part of the show, you know, i do if people don't vote third party, this cycle, they never will. i have to say, eric in god if i'm talking about the 2028 election, i'm not talking about third-party candidacies. if this cycle doesn't at least produce a legitimate three-way or three-way plus...
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>> i think what jack smith is motivated by is not november. i think it's by june which is the end of the supreme court's term. and i think all he's thinking about is making sure that there's no ambiguity whatsoever about what the supreme court said. so the one thing we know that is that by the end of june, the supreme court will have rolled one way or another on this executive immunity claim and this trial is set for one to proposed date is one week after the close of the immunity thing. >> we always talk about it in the realm of the election interference case. but trump's also claiming that in the classified documents case and you heard jim trusty saying there that he thinks he can have an argument on part of it, but it's also the willful retention in the obstruction of the efforts to investigate to try to get them back. that is also at play here and also trump was not an office. can argue presidential immunity if he was two years out of the office. >> yeah, absolutely. so like even under the nixon versus fitzgerald case for says than the lan
>> i think what jack smith is motivated by is not november. i think it's by june which is the end of the supreme court's term. and i think all he's thinking about is making sure that there's no ambiguity whatsoever about what the supreme court said. so the one thing we know that is that by the end of june, the supreme court will have rolled one way or another on this executive immunity claim and this trial is set for one to proposed date is one week after the close of the immunity thing....
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so if that holds true, jack smith would then just be starting. let's say we get that vision and it goes against president trump's claims. now, the case goes, starts moving forward again. you have about another three months of pretrial machinations before that thing could finally get in front of a jury. so that puts him with something else to do in july and he's now trying to squeeze mar-lago in there. >> well, he is saying jack, they're saying july 8th, the trump team says they want to ask the election, but they're also saying, well, also maybe august 12, is it what is the tactical advantage to that date >> so like jack smith, they're asking for the world they wanted after the election. they know they're not going to get that. they asked for that once before earlier in this case, and that was rejected. so now they're saying if you're going to put it on before, let's have it start on august 12th. coincidentally, august is the month that the dc case could possibly if everything goes right for jack smith, could possibly get on the calendar, but not
so if that holds true, jack smith would then just be starting. let's say we get that vision and it goes against president trump's claims. now, the case goes, starts moving forward again. you have about another three months of pretrial machinations before that thing could finally get in front of a jury. so that puts him with something else to do in july and he's now trying to squeeze mar-lago in there. >> well, he is saying jack, they're saying july 8th, the trump team says they want to...
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jack smith is now suggesting that they move the start date for that trial in the classified documents case down in mar-a-lago, a move that comes just one day after the justices slam the brakes on the case against trump and washington for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results late this evening, the special counsel's office filed this new motion that you're seeing here, asking for donald trump and two of his co-defendants to stand trial beginning july the 8th one other co-defendant, a little bit after that, the special counsel's team wants to get basically at least one case heard before election day in november. trump's legal team responded with a now familiar retort saying that a fair trial cannot be held until after the 2024 presidential election is concluded. i'm quoting them but they did offer another date this year and the judge who has been mired in some controversy in this case, judge aileen cannon is expected to hash it out in a >> hearing tomorrow in florida that could be critical to the future of the classified documents case i'm joined tonight by an attorney who u
jack smith is now suggesting that they move the start date for that trial in the classified documents case down in mar-a-lago, a move that comes just one day after the justices slam the brakes on the case against trump and washington for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results late this evening, the special counsel's office filed this new motion that you're seeing here, asking for donald trump and two of his co-defendants to stand trial beginning july the 8th one other co-defendant, a...
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then you have deranged jack smith who is a trump hater and represents the alls going wild. he's a wild man. he's been overturned unanimouslr other people over the years. he's had great failure but he's mean and nasty and unfair and the judges on this case are all trump haters other than we havee fair but you look at new york what's happened. these people have tremendous hatred. you can't do this to a president. again, i'm not just talking about me but i'm talking about in the future. a president has to be free. a president has to be -- if the president does a good job, i did. some people would say a great job. but if the president does a good job, a president should be free and clear and frankly celebrated for having done a good job, not indicted four times and n a civt demanded to pay hundredsf in fig that was absolutely perfect where there were no victims, where the financial statements were a disclaimer clauses. nobody ever had a thing like this. i wasn't given a jury. i had a clubhouse judge just come up with this number on a perfect line and very conservative financial
then you have deranged jack smith who is a trump hater and represents the alls going wild. he's a wild man. he's been overturned unanimouslr other people over the years. he's had great failure but he's mean and nasty and unfair and the judges on this case are all trump haters other than we havee fair but you look at new york what's happened. these people have tremendous hatred. you can't do this to a president. again, i'm not just talking about me but i'm talking about in the future. a...
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the federal election interference case is led by special council jack smith. it covers trumps efforts to stay in office after he lost the 2020 election, including his encouraging a crowd to march on the capital building the attack on our nation's capital. on january 6th, 2021. was an unprecedented assault. the seat of american democracy, or described in the indictments, it was fueled by lies. but the u. s. supreme court agreed to hear trump's case that since he was president at the time is immune from prosecution. it's on clear when they'll deliver a judgement. the new york state attorney general's case against trump 34 charges of filing false business records. that's based on payments he made and allegedly miss reported to point a graphic film after a stormy daniels before the 2016 election, allegedly to by her silence about an affair. trump has reacted as in each of the cases by attacking the prosecutors. the then there's the federal case claiming that trump to classified national security documents with him when he left the white house. that case is schedul
the federal election interference case is led by special council jack smith. it covers trumps efforts to stay in office after he lost the 2020 election, including his encouraging a crowd to march on the capital building the attack on our nation's capital. on january 6th, 2021. was an unprecedented assault. the seat of american democracy, or described in the indictments, it was fueled by lies. but the u. s. supreme court agreed to hear trump's case that since he was president at the time is...
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i think that the odds favor jack smith on the outcome. but, you know, the supreme court could very well decide that it agrees with the result but not the rationale of the d.c. circuit. there's a lot of unanswered questions on presidential immunity that may have given justices discomfort. they may want to see some greater delineation of lines trying to show when a president does have immunity in future cases. there are members of this court who take a very robust view of executive power and privilege. once they make that decision, it will return the mandate to the trial court. is it possible that they could still hold a trial before the election? yes. but allegations against the court that it's slow walking this case are, as usual, overwrought and undersupported. i mean, the court is actually moving at a much faster pace than it usually does. examples that people have raised in the past are distinguishable as to why the court moved a little faster in those cases. i think we have to take a moment here to understand the weight and the gravit
i think that the odds favor jack smith on the outcome. but, you know, the supreme court could very well decide that it agrees with the result but not the rationale of the d.c. circuit. there's a lot of unanswered questions on presidential immunity that may have given justices discomfort. they may want to see some greater delineation of lines trying to show when a president does have immunity in future cases. there are members of this court who take a very robust view of executive power and...
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deranged jack smith. >> they have no legal ground. it's what they did. i got four indictments. >> is he right or wrong? >> i mean, the way i see it if these were his personal documents or he is allowed to have these by the pra, why would you need to ask questions about video footage, why would you possibly move the documents when they were coming to retrieve them? to me it just doesn't make any sense. on top of that, why would you put two lower-level employees in the position they are in if you did nothing wrong and these are your personal documents? >> so you are saying in the way that he acted trying to hide and the people he brought into it, you think you observed part of a cover-up? >> i think it is very possible. from what i saw, the questions, why would they ask about video footage, how long it is deleted for? those are conversations carlos told me he was tasked with finding out prior to walt's arrival on a secret trip. >> how different was that than usual? you describe secret, furtive operations and then while they are talking to the fbi other box
deranged jack smith. >> they have no legal ground. it's what they did. i got four indictments. >> is he right or wrong? >> i mean, the way i see it if these were his personal documents or he is allowed to have these by the pra, why would you need to ask questions about video footage, why would you possibly move the documents when they were coming to retrieve them? to me it just doesn't make any sense. on top of that, why would you put two lower-level employees in the position...
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>> there is no way that jack smith is going to succeed to the jury instructions. if he does, the case is over. secondly, it's a head, trump wins, tells, his losing. there is no way he will let that happen. the problem is judge cannon did not issue an order here of jury instructions. just said parties, i want you to engage in the following scenarios. it's loose enough that i think it's not enough for jack smith to go directly to the 11th circuit yet. what will happen is jack smith is going to push back and say hey, what you are doing here is really erroneous. your interpretation under the presidential records act is wrong and you need to think about this again. rethink what you just did. if she won't, we will take the extraordinary step. i do think the 11th circuit going to reverse, repudiate. dropped the case entirely. >> you are there in palm beach. what are you hearing from folks about judge cannons case in the handling of donald trump? >> people think it's appalling, what has been happening. they're very anti-cannon. trump's biggest supporters silent about it o
>> there is no way that jack smith is going to succeed to the jury instructions. if he does, the case is over. secondly, it's a head, trump wins, tells, his losing. there is no way he will let that happen. the problem is judge cannon did not issue an order here of jury instructions. just said parties, i want you to engage in the following scenarios. it's loose enough that i think it's not enough for jack smith to go directly to the 11th circuit yet. what will happen is jack smith is going...
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then you have deranged jack smith, who is a trump hater and represents all the trump haters. and he is going, he's just a wild man, he has been overturned unanimously by the supreme court , went after other people over the years. he's a great failure. he's mean, he's nasty, he's unfair and the judges on these cases are all trump haters. we have maybe one or two that i think and be fair. u look at new york what has happened. these people have tremendous hatred. you can't do this to a president. i'm not talking about me, i'm talking about in the future. a president has to be free. if the president does a good job -- i did some people would say a great job. but if the president does a good free and clear, and frankly celebrated for having done a good job, not indicted four times, and knock on after on a civil basis. and not demanded to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in fines for something that was absolutely perfect where there were no victims, while -- where their financial statements were absolutely flawless. where you have disclaimer clauses. nobody has ever had a thing
then you have deranged jack smith, who is a trump hater and represents all the trump haters. and he is going, he's just a wild man, he has been overturned unanimously by the supreme court , went after other people over the years. he's a great failure. he's mean, he's nasty, he's unfair and the judges on these cases are all trump haters. we have maybe one or two that i think and be fair. u look at new york what has happened. these people have tremendous hatred. you can't do this to a president....
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jack smith wants it sooner. the defense later. it says it won't be fair unless it's much later as an after the election and john keynes election year journey all over the map, taking him to pennsylvania tonight to see how seniors view a race between the two oldest presidential candidates ever good evening. thanks for joining us. we begin tonight, keeping them honest with immigration, the issue americans now called their top concern according to recent polling. today, president biden and former president trump made dueling visits. the texas southern border, biden to brownsville, trump to eagle pass, to cities about 300 miles apart. two candidates who each in his own way has failed to fill fix a broken and severely overburdened border security and asylum system. president biden and many believed by omission, by not making the problem enough of a priority until recently, even after a year of increasing numbers of people crossing the border and rising border encounters which set new records and don't trump by commission. he's actively
jack smith wants it sooner. the defense later. it says it won't be fair unless it's much later as an after the election and john keynes election year journey all over the map, taking him to pennsylvania tonight to see how seniors view a race between the two oldest presidential candidates ever good evening. thanks for joining us. we begin tonight, keeping them honest with immigration, the issue americans now called their top concern according to recent polling. today, president biden and former...
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but, today they got shut down, at least on one front by the jack smith team about this idea that you can't start a trial within a couple months of an election. obviously, you know a lot about these things. >> sure, the question that judge cannon and her rulings has favored the defense, even her reasoning has gone out of its way to find fault with the government and to side wherever possible with the defense in ways that i think continue to be pretty shocking. remember she's the judge that was reversed twice, before the case was indicted. we do know the trial date, she made various comment saying that she thought that the date that was sought by the government in july was unduly, optimistic. she asked a lot of questions of the defense about not having a trial at all, and certainly not in the lead up of the election. i was surprised she brought up the doj internal rule, because the internal rule of the department down in any way give rise to the defense, they are not enforceable in any court, they are just internal gots to the department. that's something that the judge knows well havi
but, today they got shut down, at least on one front by the jack smith team about this idea that you can't start a trial within a couple months of an election. obviously, you know a lot about these things. >> sure, the question that judge cannon and her rulings has favored the defense, even her reasoning has gone out of its way to find fault with the government and to side wherever possible with the defense in ways that i think continue to be pretty shocking. remember she's the judge that...
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so how does jack smith get this? can he do a pretrial ruling on appeal? normally you can in a criminal case. can you get a written saying 11th circuit help me, the judge is wrong on the law as evidence by her proposed scenarios, we need you to intervene so she doesn't give the wrong instruction, and that's what people need to understand. jury instructions, these are instructions given to jurors to tell them what the law is. but if her law is wrong going in, the jury is screwed. they have no options left if they're being told by the judge to apply the wrong law. >> and the framing in these two binary situations seems a bit premature, certainly out of left field. >> not even premature, it's just flawed, it's wrong, and then it's premature as well. >> carroll lenning, thank you so much. everyone else stick around. when we come back, donald trump may have finally run out of options realizing he may have to raise half a billion dollars somehow in the next six days. the reality of this deadline is finally sinking in and it is freaking him out. raging at the jud
so how does jack smith get this? can he do a pretrial ruling on appeal? normally you can in a criminal case. can you get a written saying 11th circuit help me, the judge is wrong on the law as evidence by her proposed scenarios, we need you to intervene so she doesn't give the wrong instruction, and that's what people need to understand. jury instructions, these are instructions given to jurors to tell them what the law is. but if her law is wrong going in, the jury is screwed. they have no...
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how unusual are these orders and has she put jack smith between a rock and a hard place? >> her instructions are incredibly unusual. she's giving jury instructions without a trial date really putting the cart before the horse. you generally deal with pretrial motions first and jury instructions were later. her instructions are based on this faulty premise that donald trump's designation of records under the presidential records act matters. it doesn't. he is charged with violating the espionage act. the espionage act replies -- applies regardless whether the records he had were categorized as personal or presidential. even if he had designated these as personal records, he is still not authorized. nothing in the presidential records act authorizes a former president to possess classified information. you have this terrible proposed jury instruction to completely confuse the jury. you have her ruling to unseal the identities of witnesses. that's another terrible one. you have her refusal to dismiss outright a challenge that the espionage act is fake which it isn't. donald
how unusual are these orders and has she put jack smith between a rock and a hard place? >> her instructions are incredibly unusual. she's giving jury instructions without a trial date really putting the cart before the horse. you generally deal with pretrial motions first and jury instructions were later. her instructions are based on this faulty premise that donald trump's designation of records under the presidential records act matters. it doesn't. he is charged with violating the...
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so i think that jack smith and his team are probably considering it. i don't know that they'll use this particular order to do it. >> she's going to dismiss this case, let him off. >> if she dismissed the case before trial, that would be better because they could appeal that. the worst case is they're in the trial, she grants an acquittal. >> let's talk about this. here it is, this is donald trump's filing to the supreme court. he's trying to make the claim that trump's actions reaching out to state officials and congress and his vice president was based on some extensive evidence of fraud that's apparently secret that he's never shown us before. doesn't he have to show this evidence, and isn't it weird he would also be showing it to clarence thomas whose wife also believes in the big lie and thinks there was fraud? maybe she has the evidence. >> this is recycled from what he's been filing since he was before judge chutkan and the d.c. circuit. everything i did, everything jack smith's indictment charges me with is part of my official acts. of course i
so i think that jack smith and his team are probably considering it. i don't know that they'll use this particular order to do it. >> she's going to dismiss this case, let him off. >> if she dismissed the case before trial, that would be better because they could appeal that. the worst case is they're in the trial, she grants an acquittal. >> let's talk about this. here it is, this is donald trump's filing to the supreme court. he's trying to make the claim that trump's...
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>> i thought jack smith should have done it as soon as she drew the case. i understand the hesitation. the government's lawyer, you don't want to appear to have bias against the judge. nonetheless, i thought she had given him plenty of reason to do it. at this point, i think he has no choice. because if he does not ask the 11th circuit to recuse her, she could, for instance, set the case for trial pretty quickly. the time to do it is now. >> joyce vance, perfect person to have -- to talk about what should happen in florida. thank you so much. good night. >> night y'all. >>> we await the first criminal trial of the former u.s. president. do reading. raid all the charges against donald trump for yourselves and make your own decisions and we put all of this together and all of the indictments in the new book with the the trump indictments the historic charging documents with commentary and including helpful notes on the law as well as the many different players involved. >> thanks for joining us for this hour. good night. good night. >>> on this new hour, the
>> i thought jack smith should have done it as soon as she drew the case. i understand the hesitation. the government's lawyer, you don't want to appear to have bias against the judge. nonetheless, i thought she had given him plenty of reason to do it. at this point, i think he has no choice. because if he does not ask the 11th circuit to recuse her, she could, for instance, set the case for trial pretty quickly. the time to do it is now. >> joyce vance, perfect person to have -- to...
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particular for jack smith. let's start there. i wonder if there was anything revealing or anything you can tell us about the sort of mood in the courtroom as it looks like a lot of these cases are falling by the wayside, potentially. >> i'll say the move was interesting, because and a lot of the recent court rooms, we're up with donald trump, he's excited a sort of anger. i think particularly in the e. jean carroll case in new york. today, in this courtroom, and florida, at one point he was joking with reporters. i think he feels good about where he is right now. at least in that day and that moment. the anxiety, the concern, the uncertainty about the schedule, i think, it is understandable for people to have concern given the stakes and all this. i will say, the court system is not a great linear and predictable animal. it never has a pain and it's not been that for donald trump either. that is part of the uncertainty. i think people will have to roll with the punches little bit as far as the court system can be on a day today,
particular for jack smith. let's start there. i wonder if there was anything revealing or anything you can tell us about the sort of mood in the courtroom as it looks like a lot of these cases are falling by the wayside, potentially. >> i'll say the move was interesting, because and a lot of the recent court rooms, we're up with donald trump, he's excited a sort of anger. i think particularly in the e. jean carroll case in new york. today, in this courtroom, and florida, at one point he...
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cannon signaled that jack smith's suggested july 8th trial date would be a no-go because the trial time frame for all the motion work that has to be done would be far too c compressed tt totally makes sense. of course trump's lawyers want this travesty to be postponed until after the election. i have an idea, how about holding off until and unless joe biden is brought up on charges for his own concealment of government records? all right, meanwhile, not a good idea to keep digging when you are already sinking but that's what smith's office did when his associate intimated that the judge wasn't moving quickly enough to which he tersely replied i can assure you that in this building there is a good deal of judicial work going on. oh. now, our reporters david spunt and jake gibb son are reporting that if they had to choose a date for the federal appeal, trump's legal team said they could do august 12th to avoid running right up until the election. of course, if a trial takes, let's say, six weeks, which is what they're projecting, keeping trump in a courtroom, now, that's the ultimate in e
cannon signaled that jack smith's suggested july 8th trial date would be a no-go because the trial time frame for all the motion work that has to be done would be far too c compressed tt totally makes sense. of course trump's lawyers want this travesty to be postponed until after the election. i have an idea, how about holding off until and unless joe biden is brought up on charges for his own concealment of government records? all right, meanwhile, not a good idea to keep digging when you are...
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shortly after jack smith's team submitted their filings, the judge overseeing the case aileen cannon scheduled a hearing for next thursday. joining our conversation, former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman is here and former acting assistant attorney general for national security at the justice department and msnbc legal analyst mary mccord is here. rick is still with me at the table. mary, let me ask you, jack smith's paper tells us most of what we know and from his paper and filings, he seems to be calling bs on all of trump's moves and arguments. is that a fair read? >> i think in legal terms that's what he's doing but using different verbiage and it had to be said. i mean, some of these motions, the motion to dismiss based on presidential immunity is based on an argument that mr. trump while he was president designated all of these classified documents as personal and, therefore, that was within the scope of his official acts that he should have immunity for. so you don't even have to get to the question, says jack smith, of whether a president, a former president i
shortly after jack smith's team submitted their filings, the judge overseeing the case aileen cannon scheduled a hearing for next thursday. joining our conversation, former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman is here and former acting assistant attorney general for national security at the justice department and msnbc legal analyst mary mccord is here. rick is still with me at the table. mary, let me ask you, jack smith's paper tells us most of what we know and from his paper and...
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it was not necessary and you will look at the indictment on the jack smith brought. it has nothing to do with those proud boys. in fact, it doesn't make the claim that trump actually instigated the riot. as based upon his planning of this. so what were they waiting for? and i think merrick garland made a historic, historic mistake. >> history will look back one day and see if this, in fact, was a contributing factor in all of this. melissa, jennifer, think you so much. please stick around to help answer this question when we come back. when a conflict of interest actually conflicts of interest? we are talking about the case against d.a. fani willis in georgia, next. s ) at fisher investments we may look like other money managers, but we're different. (other money manager) how so? (fisher investments) we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client'' best interest. (fisher investments) so we don't sell any commission-based products. (other money manager) then how do you make money? (fisher investments) we have a simple management fee, structured so we do better when
it was not necessary and you will look at the indictment on the jack smith brought. it has nothing to do with those proud boys. in fact, it doesn't make the claim that trump actually instigated the riot. as based upon his planning of this. so what were they waiting for? and i think merrick garland made a historic, historic mistake. >> history will look back one day and see if this, in fact, was a contributing factor in all of this. melissa, jennifer, think you so much. please stick around...
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i mean, the idea that it's unconstitutional for jack smith to be supervising this case. it's completely justice department employee. we but but all of them i have to be decided before a trial date takes place, and she hasn't said a trial date and this case continues to be on a slow boat to nowhere. >> judge gertner. i mean, judge cannon only denied one to the former president's motions to dismiss charges that typical that she would decide only one will nothing about the way she's handling the case is typical. so these are motions that could have been disposed of quickly these emotions that are not raising issues that are extraordinary and they could have been disposed of it quickly. and what she's done is she's allowing lengthy hearings on motions that really could be just taken care of. and if she does that with respect to the others, then we are talking about a delay. what is interesting about what she said though? is that she's kicking all of this to the trial itself. and the trial would could well be a mess, allowing trump to raise defenses that really no one else wo
i mean, the idea that it's unconstitutional for jack smith to be supervising this case. it's completely justice department employee. we but but all of them i have to be decided before a trial date takes place, and she hasn't said a trial date and this case continues to be on a slow boat to nowhere. >> judge gertner. i mean, judge cannon only denied one to the former president's motions to dismiss charges that typical that she would decide only one will nothing about the way she's handling...
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then you have deranged jack smith who's a trump hater and he's going wild. he's been overturned unanimously by the supreme court. went over other people over the years. he's had great failure. he's mean, nasty, unfair. and the judges on these cases, they're all trump haters other than one or two that can be fair. look at new york what's happened. these people have tremendous hatred. you can't do this to a president. i'm not talking about me. i'm talking about in the future. a president has to be free. a president has to be if the president does a good job. i did some people would say a great job. >> the white house has not had the coordination with the doj on prosecutions regarding donald trump. this is separate. it's special counsel. the special counsel decided to bring charges. in terms of the fani willis stuff, i believe nathan wade testified he was making more money before he started to work for willis down there. back to garrett haake in west palm beach and ken dilanian. also, peter baker. why did he come out with a prepared statement? why this, why goi
then you have deranged jack smith who's a trump hater and he's going wild. he's been overturned unanimously by the supreme court. went over other people over the years. he's had great failure. he's mean, nasty, unfair. and the judges on these cases, they're all trump haters other than one or two that can be fair. look at new york what's happened. these people have tremendous hatred. you can't do this to a president. i'm not talking about me. i'm talking about in the future. a president has to...
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i could see jack smith trying to do that. just remember he's got to be thinking it's the start date i'm concerned about, and if you just -- i don't do math in public, but i tried to add 88 to the various perm uitations. it's just not looking good. and that's all assuming that the supreme court doesn't do things tosu delay the case further andt could. >> i'm operating best case scenario. >> he's got analysis odds, not best case scenario, so he's thinking, you h know what, i ha a very strong case in the classified documentsg case. i mean he's got to be thinking this has jury appeal. it's not just the retention of the classified documents, it's twoas forms of obstruction. by all accounts it looks like a incredibly strong case. wecr still have not heard any defense from the former president that passes the straight face test. obviously we'll see what happens at trial. he has to be thinking, okay, let's see if we can get that. it'se still an uphill battle because he's before judge cannon, and there are many ways that that case can
i could see jack smith trying to do that. just remember he's got to be thinking it's the start date i'm concerned about, and if you just -- i don't do math in public, but i tried to add 88 to the various perm uitations. it's just not looking good. and that's all assuming that the supreme court doesn't do things tosu delay the case further andt could. >> i'm operating best case scenario. >> he's got analysis odds, not best case scenario, so he's thinking, you h know what, i ha a very...
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jack smith's case didn't happen overnight. we went through an entire months of the jan. sixth hearings, grand jury testimony, and then finally indict an indictment pretty late in the game. so they knew when they when they when they brought this indictment, that they were gonna be up against it on a timeline and that there were going to be appeals in both interlocutory appeals, which are intermediate appeals that could be immediately taken up to the supreme court and then appeals after the fact after judgments rendered. so it's part of the process the justice system doesn't spin fast. this one in particular, though, given where jack smith's case was when it was filed, is probably moving along faster than most other federal cases. he in philadelphia, we have we have a number of criminal trials. would it be going on for four or five criminal cases that going on? for four or five years in the political corruption room >> all right. jim schultz. thank you very much. i want to go back to joan, who's onset with us, joan, you wanted to weigh in on something? >> i did. do you kno
jack smith's case didn't happen overnight. we went through an entire months of the jan. sixth hearings, grand jury testimony, and then finally indict an indictment pretty late in the game. so they knew when they when they when they brought this indictment, that they were gonna be up against it on a timeline and that there were going to be appeals in both interlocutory appeals, which are intermediate appeals that could be immediately taken up to the supreme court and then appeals after the fact...
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>> jack smith is not a superhero. so, this idea that he has all kinds of levers that he can pull with this court to get them to speed up the trial, that is not the case. he has nothing beyond his advocacy in that april 25th hearing in order to move this forward. and again, to prevail the supreme court, you need five votes. and this is a conservative 6-3 super majority. and there's a lot going on here. so you're right. i think about the court in a broader contest. this is a big turn for the court. leaving that to the side, the court had enormous cases about the future of the administrative state. and the administrative agencies. there are a number of cases about the post dobbs reproductive rights landscape. we heard one of these cases in the availability of mifepristone. and i think you have to think about all the different parts in this entire docket for this term to understand what might be going on with regard to the trump cases. just hold on with me for a minute. i know abortion has nothing to do with donald trump.
>> jack smith is not a superhero. so, this idea that he has all kinds of levers that he can pull with this court to get them to speed up the trial, that is not the case. he has nothing beyond his advocacy in that april 25th hearing in order to move this forward. and again, to prevail the supreme court, you need five votes. and this is a conservative 6-3 super majority. and there's a lot going on here. so you're right. i think about the court in a broader contest. this is a big turn for...
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what does that reflect on the part of jack smith? >> first of all, we don't know that they haven't recovered them. it could be they have determined all of those boxes were returned to mar-a-lago or somewhere else, that they essentially follow trump around wherever he went. i had a conversation with someone on your team tonight about our shared recollection that when trump showed up in new york last year for a deposition in a new york attorney general civil fraud case, he was seen outside trump tower with personal aides carting those very same sorts of bankers boxes. look, there is a reference in the indictment to the fact that carlos de olliva and others shuttled those boxes to mar-a-lago. >> in the back of my mind this is all pure speculation, i should warn everyone at home. that it seems jack smith probably more than anyone else at the department of justice has noods the aprieveiated calender within which he's working. like he built a federal indictment on january 6th made for speed, let's get it done. that is very much up in the a
what does that reflect on the part of jack smith? >> first of all, we don't know that they haven't recovered them. it could be they have determined all of those boxes were returned to mar-a-lago or somewhere else, that they essentially follow trump around wherever he went. i had a conversation with someone on your team tonight about our shared recollection that when trump showed up in new york last year for a deposition in a new york attorney general civil fraud case, he was seen outside...
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even some of the members because of jack smith's team and jack smith was in the courtroom today, they react to when people stand up and make different points before the judge. >> now the thing about judge cannon know is she's very hard to read and she doesn't often tip her hand. this is the one of the first hearings where we have seen her really side or at least indicates did she was going to side one way or another and she did follow that with an order, at least on one of these motions shortly after the hearing. >> and is it clear when she's going to decide the trump team's other arguments for dismissal no judges can take however much time they need to make a decision. >> but >> the every time that there is a delay in judge cannon issuing an order on one of these motions. trump is making. that's the longer it goes before everyone can set the table for the trial and to see how that will shape up. and anderson we should add this is two motions where trump is asking to dismiss the case by my count, there are seven more of these that could be argued from both he and his two co-defendants
even some of the members because of jack smith's team and jack smith was in the courtroom today, they react to when people stand up and make different points before the judge. >> now the thing about judge cannon know is she's very hard to read and she doesn't often tip her hand. this is the one of the first hearings where we have seen her really side or at least indicates did she was going to side one way or another and she did follow that with an order, at least on one of these motions...
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if that sounds like a familiar issue, jack smith has more than one case against defendant trump. so, the defendant was actually down in federal court today watching as doj prosecutors argued for a july beginning to a trial in the other jack smith case, earlier in the week discussing the big coup case and the supreme court slowing that down. this is the classified documents case, you probably remember both, and -- they are saying, over at the doj, there is nothing in their rule or precedents which prevents this trial, on the documents, from occurring in weeks, even days before the election. and remember, it's donald trump is the defendant who's been delaying both cases. on the flipside, i want to tell you donald trump's team are saying, well, they don't like the idea of this trial happening at all but they offered august s.a.t. possible date. we learned about that new development last night, if you haven't been watching the beat, because you came through in a filing and that was a change. now today in court, with donald trump sitting there, we saw all of this play out at the heari
if that sounds like a familiar issue, jack smith has more than one case against defendant trump. so, the defendant was actually down in federal court today watching as doj prosecutors argued for a july beginning to a trial in the other jack smith case, earlier in the week discussing the big coup case and the supreme court slowing that down. this is the classified documents case, you probably remember both, and -- they are saying, over at the doj, there is nothing in their rule or precedents...
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that is why jack smith is saying these aargue. s designed to delay the trial. >> the stormy danielles hush money case, will the consequences be a slap on the wrist for trump? >> i don't think so. you have to remember this same conduct was charged federally by the southern district of new york. and michael cohen was charged and convicted with exiting federal election fraud. and he served three years in prison for that. here are the charges are that donald trump falsified business records but in order to conceal or commit that same federal election law violation as well as violating other laws, l. again he could face prison time. somebody has. these are serious charges and should not be underestimated. >> yesterday, ty cobb was not impressed with trump in the new york civil cases. will trump keep his attorney on the team? >> if the civil cases where she is on all of the briefings for appeal he added another lawyer an appellate lawyer the same lawyer who argued in the dc immunity appeal. and so he has added lawyers but as of now, ali
that is why jack smith is saying these aargue. s designed to delay the trial. >> the stormy danielles hush money case, will the consequences be a slap on the wrist for trump? >> i don't think so. you have to remember this same conduct was charged federally by the southern district of new york. and michael cohen was charged and convicted with exiting federal election fraud. and he served three years in prison for that. here are the charges are that donald trump falsified business...
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i think jack smith has adopted a surgical approach. he has determined based on the teams experience that further superseding the indictment is to know one's benefit of that means if and when the case were ever to be tried that we would see some of the things brian butler talks about in the interview come back and make a reappearance at trial including his testimony. >> there is been a fatalist attitude about this because it's unlikely to happen before november but there's a 50% chance that joe biden is the president come the end of november it means this trial could actually happen. i do wonder what you think the timeline is for this given canons and decision to set a date. >> a lot depends on what the supreme court does on immunity. trump has made multiple dismissals and two will be dealt with but presidential immunity is not one of them. depending on what the supreme court does the case could go away or come back to judge cannon to determine, even if he is immune, for acts that are alleged to be official. does the stuff in this indic
i think jack smith has adopted a surgical approach. he has determined based on the teams experience that further superseding the indictment is to know one's benefit of that means if and when the case were ever to be tried that we would see some of the things brian butler talks about in the interview come back and make a reappearance at trial including his testimony. >> there is been a fatalist attitude about this because it's unlikely to happen before november but there's a 50% chance...
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jack smith's team wants it to begin in july. donald trump's team has counted for august, but neither case, it could begin as early as this summer and we could get that date etched at least a little bit in stone shortly. in the meantime, today, a georgia community will gather to say goodbye to a 22 year-old nursing student, laken riley. riley was killed last week while jogging near a lake on the university of georgia campus. the man suspected in her death has been charged with murder in his currently behind bars. he entered the us illegally which has sparked a national debate about border curie. just in elon musk sued open ai and its ceo for breach of contract must says that openai, which runs cheche tbt, diverge from his mission to develop artificial intelligence for the benefit of humanity by cutting a $10 billion deal with microsoft and keeping new coding secret musk cofounded openai in 2015, but left in 2018 is set up his own ai company, openai has not responded to cnn's request for comment. >> so it is lights out for the lun
jack smith's team wants it to begin in july. donald trump's team has counted for august, but neither case, it could begin as early as this summer and we could get that date etched at least a little bit in stone shortly. in the meantime, today, a georgia community will gather to say goodbye to a 22 year-old nursing student, laken riley. riley was killed last week while jogging near a lake on the university of georgia campus. the man suspected in her death has been charged with murder in his...
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but on top of that, you also have this argument that some are making. >> jack smith's team announced the 60-day rule and unwritten rule of justice department they're not supposed to take action within 60 dais of an election to avoid influencing it. it's regarded as not pop aretivm and i take that to mean they expect that trump will lose the immunity claim and that they will be able to begin a trial against him after labor day and run that trial through election day if that's how long it takes to try it. so i think that, you know, to the extent that people are looking at what happened today and saying the law fare campaign has failed. i would point out to people that a defendant is required to be in court for every day of a criminal trial, and i think these guys are planning to try him from september to november. neil: that would be very disruptive for donald trump in the middle of a presidential campaign assuming he's the republican nominee and if he's convicted on any of the charges, how that would resinate. the consensus seems to be a conviction changing the game. i'm not so sure a
but on top of that, you also have this argument that some are making. >> jack smith's team announced the 60-day rule and unwritten rule of justice department they're not supposed to take action within 60 dais of an election to avoid influencing it. it's regarded as not pop aretivm and i take that to mean they expect that trump will lose the immunity claim and that they will be able to begin a trial against him after labor day and run that trial through election day if that's how long it...