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Jun 15, 2023
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, to be more cooperative, to settle with doj. "the washington post" reports the goal was to negotiate to avoid charges, to mix cooperating and deal with bhakd a disadvantage or advantage, the complexity that doj might not want to do this. they might want an exit ramp to avoid prosecuting a former president. and let me tell you something -- that's decent lawyering. as a lawyer, you always look at the law and the facts. the law might run against your client, as it clearly did here. donald trump has been indicted. but the facts sometimes held, and while no person is supposed to be above the law, if you can go to the doj with facts and say there may have been problems but this is a former official, or this was a police officer, or this was a general, or this is a doctor who meant well, using the facts of the situation, and we're willing to cooperate, we really think there's a way to get this done without charges, that really can work if it's honest, done in good faith -- and this is where they failed -- if it's done in time. but he d
, to be more cooperative, to settle with doj. "the washington post" reports the goal was to negotiate to avoid charges, to mix cooperating and deal with bhakd a disadvantage or advantage, the complexity that doj might not want to do this. they might want an exit ramp to avoid prosecuting a former president. and let me tell you something -- that's decent lawyering. as a lawyer, you always look at the law and the facts. the law might run against your client, as it clearly did here....
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Jun 20, 2023
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dare doj to respond what looked like a provocation. doj responded. they searched and found this jackpot, 102 documents that trump was hiding. the discovered documents proved, as far as jack smith was concerned, that trump was lie about returning all the documents and, that led to these charges. by holding the documents, donald trump very clearly set off the chain of events which then got him caught red handed. it was kind of a slow path. over a year from the initial clash with the archives, months from the doj request. now, we made this time line here in our reporting, gleaned from the evidence that we have. this is the kind of thing, not exactly this, but the kind of material, the kind of argument that the jury would hear in this case, backed up by trump's own admission about giving back some. also backed up by the lawyer's notes if they're admitted into evidence and the public record. so now in this new interview, donald trump does what donald trump does. he mixes some of those admissions with other lies. think about the length of time i just showe
dare doj to respond what looked like a provocation. doj responded. they searched and found this jackpot, 102 documents that trump was hiding. the discovered documents proved, as far as jack smith was concerned, that trump was lie about returning all the documents and, that led to these charges. by holding the documents, donald trump very clearly set off the chain of events which then got him caught red handed. it was kind of a slow path. over a year from the initial clash with the archives,...
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Jun 9, 2023
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it is not at doj. there's clearly a separation. not just title but physicality between jack smith and merrick garland and i imagine that is very intentional. >> totally. yesterday, last evening, the people saying that merrick garland or lisa, the deputy attorney general, saying they approved the indictment. and the reporting was, no, no, they didn't disapprove it. their power would only be to say no if it was so beyond the pale. second, when we heard defense counsel went into the department of justice earlier this week to appeal and say please don't bring this case, neither the attorney general nor the deputy attorney general were there. why? because they're the political appointees of the president. instead, career people heard this. so this is very intentional to deal with -- >> in fairness, with respect to your former colleagues, we would expect they are fully in the loop. so whether we use the lawyerly terminology -- >> they were not deciding. >> no. not deciding. under the special counsel rules, they're not supposed to be. hav
it is not at doj. there's clearly a separation. not just title but physicality between jack smith and merrick garland and i imagine that is very intentional. >> totally. yesterday, last evening, the people saying that merrick garland or lisa, the deputy attorney general, saying they approved the indictment. and the reporting was, no, no, they didn't disapprove it. their power would only be to say no if it was so beyond the pale. second, when we heard defense counsel went into the...
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Jun 15, 2023
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that's not what doj came for. they didn't come for things that were mishandled which a potential crime, initially not given back to nara which could have been a potential crime. this isn't accurate from a legal standpoint but they seemed to have taken all's well that ends well and the things he's charged for are things we still don't know for sure are back in the possession of the federal government. what do you make of "the times" and "the post" pretty amazing story that's happening over and over again. trump's lawyer roulette happens every time trump's under scrutiny, and here we go again. >> yes, and i think the approach we've now read about that chris kise wanted to take, that's the approach i would have expected really of any competent attorney who was trying to do the best for his client. he just had a client who just doesn't does not want to listen to his attorney's advice when it's not consistent with whatever he personally feels is the right thing to do. and i think that's, you know, really coming back to
that's not what doj came for. they didn't come for things that were mishandled which a potential crime, initially not given back to nara which could have been a potential crime. this isn't accurate from a legal standpoint but they seemed to have taken all's well that ends well and the things he's charged for are things we still don't know for sure are back in the possession of the federal government. what do you make of "the times" and "the post" pretty amazing story that's...
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do you think bedminster exist post doj or is that fantastical thinking? >> there are allegations it was at bedminster in new jersey where he disclosed to unauthorized peopleos classifie information, so it could be a basis for a charge. it seems like the indictment in florida is a very solid one. it's got evidence, 31 counts of espionage act violations as well as six other counts against donald trump. and so i think they're going full speed on that one. i don't know about this back pocket new jersey. maybe it does, maybe it doesn't exist. i think people are rightfully concerned about canon in part because her inexperience. she's young, but whenever you get ag, judge there's always a risk they've not dealt with this case before. many judges are only civil lawyers, but i think the thing that has people most spooked is her ruling in the search warrant matter. the ruling was really lawless. i don't know if that was a lack of experience that we were seeing or if she was simply swayed byhe the right-wing talkg points, but she completely ignored the legally stand
do you think bedminster exist post doj or is that fantastical thinking? >> there are allegations it was at bedminster in new jersey where he disclosed to unauthorized peopleos classifie information, so it could be a basis for a charge. it seems like the indictment in florida is a very solid one. it's got evidence, 31 counts of espionage act violations as well as six other counts against donald trump. and so i think they're going full speed on that one. i don't know about this back pocket...
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Jun 9, 2023
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, not only in the institution of government, but specifically in the fbi and doj. you're going to hear a drumbeat of that kind of criticism over the course of the next several months and weeks. it's hard to imagine that merrick garland would want to talk, but i sort of hope that he does. >> there is precedent for. this president for jack smith talking about this. they cannot do it. tuesday at three pm is just a couple of news cycles away. it's not like we have to really endure some difficulty waiting period. the new york times is already on to it. reporters will collect more and more details of what is going on in this thing between now and tuesday at 3:00. we have a pretty good idea of it already. i don't think they're going to run into serious problems. there will be some rabid trump supporters in congress that will be as rabid as they always are, but i think that what you're going to see is an awful lot of hanging back by most senators, most republican members of the house, just really waiting for tuesday to see exactly what it is that they're going to be called
, not only in the institution of government, but specifically in the fbi and doj. you're going to hear a drumbeat of that kind of criticism over the course of the next several months and weeks. it's hard to imagine that merrick garland would want to talk, but i sort of hope that he does. >> there is precedent for. this president for jack smith talking about this. they cannot do it. tuesday at three pm is just a couple of news cycles away. it's not like we have to really endure some...
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Jun 12, 2023
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we know according to the doj, trump lied to the lawyer and the government. that's explained in the filing with the reference to trump attorney 1, which we hear at msnbc have identified as very likely corcoran, and that he will be a key witness. it is corcoran's notes that bust trump for those things that we were all frantically reading to you on friday saying things like i don't want anybody looking through my boxes, i really don't. i don't want you looking through my boxes. trump said, what happens if we just don't respond at all, or just don't play ball with him. and trotting out his justice plan, wouldn't it be better if we just told them we don't have anything here. isn't it better if there are no documents, which is a proposed lie because there were documents. those same notes depict trump referring to possibly illegal material, which he for shorthand here calls the bad stuff. again, in secret, he had no reason to this this would go to the government or beyond tv. he secretly asks, if there's anything really bad in there, we just pluck it out. let me be
we know according to the doj, trump lied to the lawyer and the government. that's explained in the filing with the reference to trump attorney 1, which we hear at msnbc have identified as very likely corcoran, and that he will be a key witness. it is corcoran's notes that bust trump for those things that we were all frantically reading to you on friday saying things like i don't want anybody looking through my boxes, i really don't. i don't want you looking through my boxes. trump said, what...
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Jun 10, 2023
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and so in many ways, donald trump forced doj's hand, doj had that two options. wait until tuesday, at arraignment to ask the court to unseal the indictment. or ask the court early to unseal the indictment. i was, i sat on this network on thursday night, that the department had 24 hours alex to release this information. or they risk of losing, or creating an information vacuum if you will. in which donald trump and allies would fill. i am glad that my former colleagues asked the court to release this information early. and i encourage to jack smith's point, everybody to take a moment, and to read it. because it is not legal leads. >> it is not. >> -- >> >> it's very straightforward. >> it's easy to understand. you don't have to take my word as a talking head who used to work for the justice department. it's really quite a stunning amount of detail. >> yes, take a listen to what former trump lawyer, timothy parlatore said earlier this week. here it is. >> so, i don't think is so much a choice to go to florida, so much as it is a choice that if you go to d.c., it's
and so in many ways, donald trump forced doj's hand, doj had that two options. wait until tuesday, at arraignment to ask the court to unseal the indictment. or ask the court early to unseal the indictment. i was, i sat on this network on thursday night, that the department had 24 hours alex to release this information. or they risk of losing, or creating an information vacuum if you will. in which donald trump and allies would fill. i am glad that my former colleagues asked the court to release...
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Jun 15, 2023
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what is the process by which the doj can actually show this stuff in a meaningful way? >> the great question. it's an important question. in a case like this, the classified information has to be shown to the jury. the jury has to look at it and decide for itself whether the information qualifies as national defense information. the government can say it's classified, but only the jury can say that it's national defense information. it's a question of fact. so, unlike other cases where you might deal to summarize classified information substitute something that's less sensitive, this actually has been shown to the jury. that means it also asked me provide it to the defense. if the government wants to protect this information disclosure, they also need to afford the defendant's due process rights. so, there are procedures that are available to the government to allow that to happen, to provide a fair trial while protecting the information. >> so -- [laughter] what are those -- without getting too granular, does the district heavily redact -- how do you do that? how does
what is the process by which the doj can actually show this stuff in a meaningful way? >> the great question. it's an important question. in a case like this, the classified information has to be shown to the jury. the jury has to look at it and decide for itself whether the information qualifies as national defense information. the government can say it's classified, but only the jury can say that it's national defense information. it's a question of fact. so, unlike other cases where...
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Jun 10, 2023
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it is a doj, a grand jury. there is a process here. >> so this is the textbook case of the republican trump trap, where a candidate like ron desantis performs for a republican primary audience, but then, puts himself at risk. let's say he makes it through, let's say donald trump goes to jail, and ron desantis becomes a republican nominee. then he has to face general election voters, and explain why he thought it was okay with donald trump did, and that it's the justice department, and law enforcement that is actually wrong here. that is what happened to candidates in the midterm elections in 2022. that is why they lost. because they were to align to donald trump. they were perceived as being too radical. so desantis is trying to signal to trump, i'm okay, i'm one of you. but that can end up costing him if he actually makes it. >> and to carlos's point, is there really a risk of true manga dying hearts actually saying, no, this is not a politicization of an administrative arm like the doj? >> katie, it's difficu
it is a doj, a grand jury. there is a process here. >> so this is the textbook case of the republican trump trap, where a candidate like ron desantis performs for a republican primary audience, but then, puts himself at risk. let's say he makes it through, let's say donald trump goes to jail, and ron desantis becomes a republican nominee. then he has to face general election voters, and explain why he thought it was okay with donald trump did, and that it's the justice department, and law...
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Jun 10, 2023
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arguably, this case never would've gotten to doj until it got to doj. what i mean by that, there is a period of time when the national archives was involved. not doj. they were saying, hey, we think of some of our documents. this back and forth is going on. only when nothing was going on didn't go to doj. these are things that could have been averted. i think that's the message of this indictment. what people will engage in whataboutism, and i think that's fair to have a discussion about that, i think of the point route turn, as expressed in this indictment, is not possessing the documents. it is what happened once possession was established. this concealment, the hiding, the moving around, the deceiving one's own lawyers and government agents. >> you're gonna show us our defense chops in the next hour. >> the toughest critic. >> i will have my a game, or might begin. >> i'm getting a stern wrap it up from an executive producer, coming up, didn't i'll talk to again soon. refusing to criticize the rival. >> an indictment against a former president i thin
arguably, this case never would've gotten to doj until it got to doj. what i mean by that, there is a period of time when the national archives was involved. not doj. they were saying, hey, we think of some of our documents. this back and forth is going on. only when nothing was going on didn't go to doj. these are things that could have been averted. i think that's the message of this indictment. what people will engage in whataboutism, and i think that's fair to have a discussion about that,...
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and this from the pioneer press, doj, pattern of abuse by minneapolis police. let's bring in nbc's jesse, cheese on the ground in minneapolis for us also paul butler, msnbc legal analyst. law professor and federal prosecutor. welcome guys, let's start with you. what did this report reveal and how are residents they're reacting? >> yeah alex, bottom line, the attorney general for the united states merrick garland saying that the practices and the patterns that the justice department observed here in minneapolis made the murder of george floyd possible. i'll read you a line from this report from the justice department which says that the minneapolis police department quote uses unreasonable force and infringes on first amendment rights and discriminates based on race and disability, and specifically the justice department singling out that the police department was discriminating against black people as well as native american people and i want to read this other note because i think this is something that is another topic that gets a lot of conversation. the dep
and this from the pioneer press, doj, pattern of abuse by minneapolis police. let's bring in nbc's jesse, cheese on the ground in minneapolis for us also paul butler, msnbc legal analyst. law professor and federal prosecutor. welcome guys, let's start with you. what did this report reveal and how are residents they're reacting? >> yeah alex, bottom line, the attorney general for the united states merrick garland saying that the practices and the patterns that the justice department...
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Jun 8, 2023
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the doj's targeting. don mcgahn trusted white house council. you may remember his face or name from the mueller probe. but this matters tonight because he had the same issue of trump's ploy, trying to pull him into crimes. he resisted in realtime, sometimes vowing to resign if a legal plan was pursued. as time went on, there were leaks, other accounts. it became clear that lawyer was one of the initially secret star witnesses against trump. we all lived through it. mcgahn had this inside track. we saw the plots up close. he saw what trump was ordering, sometimes making it happen, sometimes pulling back, and he saw that if he let trump pull him in, he would have his own legal exposure. and that's a dynamic, a history, a kind of a legal history that someone like don mcgahn, such a well trained and experienced lawyer would understand well. he will remember what you and so many others who follow the news remember, the watergate history. it was a lawyer with the exact same job that mcgahn held, white house counsel john dean who found a president usi
the doj's targeting. don mcgahn trusted white house council. you may remember his face or name from the mueller probe. but this matters tonight because he had the same issue of trump's ploy, trying to pull him into crimes. he resisted in realtime, sometimes vowing to resign if a legal plan was pursued. as time went on, there were leaks, other accounts. it became clear that lawyer was one of the initially secret star witnesses against trump. we all lived through it. mcgahn had this inside track....
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Jun 7, 2023
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how can the doj possibly charge me who did nothing wrong. new york times even reports that trump expects to face charges. he recently left trump's legal team and he joins me now. you said you would not be surprised if you were not indicted up until now and i wonder if the developments of the past few days, in particular the meeting with the doj changes how you are thinking about that likelihood? >> obviously i have no idea what happened inside the meeting. i evaluate the case based on what i know to be the fax as opposed to what was just publicly reported so my opinion as a lawyer is that this is something that should not result in charges however, will it result in charges? that is up in the air. a lot of that goes down to what the prosecutors decide to do. >> i have seen previous interviews about this i guess the core question i have, i have been in a civil case where somebody says you have to hold documents for discovery and people take that seriously, these are not national security stuff, just make sure you search your email, i feel lik
how can the doj possibly charge me who did nothing wrong. new york times even reports that trump expects to face charges. he recently left trump's legal team and he joins me now. you said you would not be surprised if you were not indicted up until now and i wonder if the developments of the past few days, in particular the meeting with the doj changes how you are thinking about that likelihood? >> obviously i have no idea what happened inside the meeting. i evaluate the case based on...
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Jun 16, 2023
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. >> i think the doj and fbi have lost their way. i think they've been weaponized against americans who think like me and you. >> we have seen the politicization at the department of justice for years and years. >> what we've seen over the last several years is the weaponization of the department of justice against a former president. >> the doj and fbi have lost all credibility with the american people. >> that is the new republican line when it comes to donald trump's handling of classified documents. the department of justice and the fbi have been weaponized. and the person who is supposedly weaponizing those two organizations is in their mind joe biden. now, never mind the fact that joe biden has stayed about as far away from trump's prosecution as a sitting president possibly can, refusing to even comment on this case publicly, conservatives have gone all in on the idea this is biden's secret plot. on the day of trump's arraignment fox news ran this graphic alongside their coverage of biden and trump. wannabe dictator speaks at
. >> i think the doj and fbi have lost their way. i think they've been weaponized against americans who think like me and you. >> we have seen the politicization at the department of justice for years and years. >> what we've seen over the last several years is the weaponization of the department of justice against a former president. >> the doj and fbi have lost all credibility with the american people. >> that is the new republican line when it comes to donald...
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Jun 18, 2023
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what could a trump doj due to make your life difficult? >> just the other day, trump said i should be in prison. and it's not the first time he's called for jailing me. you have to wonder, good president trump, unshackled by any president -- opposition, using the justice department to prosecute his enemies. there's a lot of teams taking place in this country in the last several years that we would have never imagined possible. we thought we were exceptional in the sense that this isn't a problem of the united states of america. but since trump's election, that steady degradation of our institutions and, if he gets the chance again, you can't bet against how he would try to abuse the justice department. i would also say, i am glad to be on his enemies list. as franklin roosevelt said, there are times when you can judge a person by the enemies they make. and i think it is a threat. they don't like the work i did on the january 6th committee, or my work leading the first impeachment trial, to a bipartisan vote to convict. it's not gonna deter
what could a trump doj due to make your life difficult? >> just the other day, trump said i should be in prison. and it's not the first time he's called for jailing me. you have to wonder, good president trump, unshackled by any president -- opposition, using the justice department to prosecute his enemies. there's a lot of teams taking place in this country in the last several years that we would have never imagined possible. we thought we were exceptional in the sense that this isn't a...
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he claimed the doj pay painting himself as the victim of vicious persecution, using the same old one liners you would expect. and he gets away with this in part because of elected republicans, and even those hoping to beat trump in the gop race for president. >> he has had time, and time again, he has classified all this material. this is the most political thing i have ever seen. you can't have obstruction of something when there was no underlying crime. >> i think the espionage charges are ridiculous. but i promise you this, most americans believe most republicans believe that the law is used as a weapon against donald trump. >> today, supporters were seen on the road in florida heading from miami to palm beach to show their loyalty to the former president. also today, we learn trump will leave new jersey in the morning for florida staying at his property before tuesday's arraignment in miami. which is where we find nbc's garrett. hey garrett, first, what kind of safeguards are being put in place outside of the courthouse ahead of tuesday? >> much of the security preparations are o
he claimed the doj pay painting himself as the victim of vicious persecution, using the same old one liners you would expect. and he gets away with this in part because of elected republicans, and even those hoping to beat trump in the gop race for president. >> he has had time, and time again, he has classified all this material. this is the most political thing i have ever seen. you can't have obstruction of something when there was no underlying crime. >> i think the espionage...
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Jun 22, 2023
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it goes to doj. they demand the stuff back, and then in the middle jack smith is basically telling the story where, as mentioned, trump says here is all 38, 38, through his team, all 38. actually as he's literally doing that, he's taking secretive efforts that are quite deliberate to hide the other documents. it's not like i gave you 38, you needed 40. although these laws are strict to begin with. leslie, as you see in our diagram, it's 102 more documents. that's the some that he held back. that's what leads to charges. how important if this goes to trial is it for smith to distill this into a story that explains that timeline? you can imagine some jurors holding out or thinking about -- i mentioned in cases that involve generals or police, sometimes jurors are likely to say, wait a minute, what's the good faith interpretation of this. the speaking indictment in its depth seems to try to knock down over time any good fate or benign interpretation of the former president's approach to this material. >
it goes to doj. they demand the stuff back, and then in the middle jack smith is basically telling the story where, as mentioned, trump says here is all 38, 38, through his team, all 38. actually as he's literally doing that, he's taking secretive efforts that are quite deliberate to hide the other documents. it's not like i gave you 38, you needed 40. although these laws are strict to begin with. leslie, as you see in our diagram, it's 102 more documents. that's the some that he held back....
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this was not something that doj did unilaterally or could do unilaterally. trump's lawyer, and trump already got their day in court. it was under seal, but they had that day in court and a judge sided with doj, at least to a limited extent, as it came to this privilege question. the fact that trump's lawyers are speaking out publicly to raise their concerns about what doj did is not going to have any bearing on the legality at least as far as judge beryl howell ruled when it came to these matters covered by attorney/client privilege, allegedly. >> pete, let me read you more of "the new york times" reporting. "the issue of who moved the boxes into and out of the storage room and why has become one of the central parts of mr. smith's investigation. prosecutors have focused much of their attention on walt nauta, an aide to mr. trump, and a maintenance worker who helped. mr. corcoran's notes provide some details about mr. nauta's involvement in the search. they say he unlocked the storm room door for mr. corcoran. they say he also brought mr. corcoran some tape
this was not something that doj did unilaterally or could do unilaterally. trump's lawyer, and trump already got their day in court. it was under seal, but they had that day in court and a judge sided with doj, at least to a limited extent, as it came to this privilege question. the fact that trump's lawyers are speaking out publicly to raise their concerns about what doj did is not going to have any bearing on the legality at least as far as judge beryl howell ruled when it came to these...
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Jun 16, 2023
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if you recall kristen clark and the investigation there, the doj had extremely similar findings. if you go back, different administration, different doj, but the report that came out of ferguson also very similar when we're talking about this. so the issue is that american policing as it stands is broken and needs to move to a public service model. now, will this consent decree have any impact? it's very possible, but that's putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound. because the consent decree is only going to be as effective as number one, the independent monitor responsible for making sure it's implemented proper and the judge responsible for overseeing it, and that can change depending on what administration is in the white house, what administration is in the doj, and what those priorities are. so the real issue is this is a step in the right direction. but we've already made the step before. we need to begin to address the root problem. >> what do we do? what realistically can a federal government do? when you go through the report, and you're right, ron, there's a sameness to t
if you recall kristen clark and the investigation there, the doj had extremely similar findings. if you go back, different administration, different doj, but the report that came out of ferguson also very similar when we're talking about this. so the issue is that american policing as it stands is broken and needs to move to a public service model. now, will this consent decree have any impact? it's very possible, but that's putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound. because the consent decree is...
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Jun 16, 2023
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the evidence that doj, the allegations doj puts into their indictment are that trump knew, trump directed the packing, trump knew what was close to him. and in fact, there appears to be testimony that he had what his aides came to call the beautiful mind boxes. because he seemed to know if someone had rifled through them or if papers were out of order. he wanted the boxes close to him. there's every indication from what we're seeing that jack smith can put on an awfully good case that trump was right in the center of all of it. >> what do you think we learned about jack smith? something that you and i have talked about over the years, really, now, is how, when the public or the political and civic process kind of gets ahead of the probe, people are, at a minimum, imagining or projecting. so while lawyers knew what bob mueller's ceilings were, what he legally could do, there was still a folk hero intrigue built up around him about stopping, or quote, unquote, taking down donald trump. that wasn't even in his purview under the rules. there was, i guess, the broader idea that some smoking gu
the evidence that doj, the allegations doj puts into their indictment are that trump knew, trump directed the packing, trump knew what was close to him. and in fact, there appears to be testimony that he had what his aides came to call the beautiful mind boxes. because he seemed to know if someone had rifled through them or if papers were out of order. he wanted the boxes close to him. there's every indication from what we're seeing that jack smith can put on an awfully good case that trump was...
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and an effort to prevent their return to doj. so as a prosecutor, i would be delighted to have that tape. i would probably play it to a jury at trial and use it as evidence to convict the former president, much of the evidence against him are words that come out of his own mouth >> so when we talk about the sort of amount of classified documents, one of the complications is that you almost have to provide security clearance to trump's lawyers in order for them to look at some of the evidence, but the judge has ruled that trump can only see the evidence when he is with his lawyers because he's not trustworthy enough there's a possibility that he could take discovery materials home with him. how rare is that for a judge to essentially say, i don't even trust you with your own evidence, so you need to leave it here behind a closed locker like you're going to target and you can't get to the toothpaste? >> so trump has certainly given judges reasons to doubt his ability to respect the boundaries that are typically imposed on discovery
and an effort to prevent their return to doj. so as a prosecutor, i would be delighted to have that tape. i would probably play it to a jury at trial and use it as evidence to convict the former president, much of the evidence against him are words that come out of his own mouth >> so when we talk about the sort of amount of classified documents, one of the complications is that you almost have to provide security clearance to trump's lawyers in order for them to look at some of the...
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the doj watchdog say they failed to make those work properly. epstein was arrested in 2019 on grave charges of sex trafficking minors. he was awaiting trial. the official cause of death was ruled a suicide. but suspicious circumstances, potential motive, and prison failures raised many questions. this new doj report states that in their review, they found, quote, no evidence of defensive wounds, which would be expected if epstein's death had been a homicide. that jail was notorious for poor conditions and harsh and allegedly unlawful treatment of inmates at times. it had actually been shut down since then. what's the wider context? we reported on "the beat" these types of problems plague many jails nationwide, including inmates who have no national exposure, attention, or controversy. so this story matters on two levels. illustrates the endemic problems in american prisons which are not unique to this case. it also shows problems which, if i'm going to be honest with you tonight, can reasonably undercut the government's credibility when it comes
the doj watchdog say they failed to make those work properly. epstein was arrested in 2019 on grave charges of sex trafficking minors. he was awaiting trial. the official cause of death was ruled a suicide. but suspicious circumstances, potential motive, and prison failures raised many questions. this new doj report states that in their review, they found, quote, no evidence of defensive wounds, which would be expected if epstein's death had been a homicide. that jail was notorious for poor...
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how are you expecting doj to handle that. can they challenge it, and can be their chances of winning? >> so, alex, aileen cannon who you just said, and noted, is a very familiar figure dealing with donald trump at the mar-a-lago case. she was randomly selected, i know there's some people out there that thinks it's not possible, she was randomly selected, and a lottery system to be able to hear this case. the doj has a very interesting proposition in front of it. do they immediately straight out of the gate, move to recuse or,'s saying that she has a preelection or predisposition to role in donald trump's favor when it comes to particular issues, or do they wait for some major decision -- indicating that that's where she's leaning. there are options available to the department of justice but previously, when aileen cannon was appointing the special master that ultimately the 11th circuit court of appeal says, no, you are wrong on the law, you are wrong on the merits, you couldn't have done that. she got smacked down by the 11t
how are you expecting doj to handle that. can they challenge it, and can be their chances of winning? >> so, alex, aileen cannon who you just said, and noted, is a very familiar figure dealing with donald trump at the mar-a-lago case. she was randomly selected, i know there's some people out there that thinks it's not possible, she was randomly selected, and a lottery system to be able to hear this case. the doj has a very interesting proposition in front of it. do they immediately...
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, not only in the institution of government, but specifically in the fbi and doj. you're going to hear a drumbeat of that kind of criticism over the course of the next several months and weeks. it's hard to imagine that merrick garland would want to talk, but i sort of hope that he does. >> there is precedent for. this president for jack smith talking about this. they cannot do it. tuesday at three pm is just a couple of news cycles away. it's not like we have to really endure some difficulty waiting period. the new york times is already on to it. reporters will collect more and more details of what is going on in this thing between now and tuesday at 3:00. we have a pretty good idea of it already. i don't think they're going to run into serious problems. there will be some rabid trump supporters in congress that will be as rabid as they always are, but i think that what you're going to see is an awful lot of hanging back by most senators, most republican members of the house, just really waiting for tuesday to see exactly what it is that they're going to be called
, not only in the institution of government, but specifically in the fbi and doj. you're going to hear a drumbeat of that kind of criticism over the course of the next several months and weeks. it's hard to imagine that merrick garland would want to talk, but i sort of hope that he does. >> there is precedent for. this president for jack smith talking about this. they cannot do it. tuesday at three pm is just a couple of news cycles away. it's not like we have to really endure some...
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we don't know doj is going to indict in any particular case until it happens. it's a long path, it's a frustrating path. what americans can take away tonight is that the process worked, that a career justice department official acting as a special counsel has led a team with evidence sufficient to convince a grand jury to indict the former president, and that is a process not grounded in politics no matter what donald trump tries to convince people of. this is a purely professional process grounded in the rule of law. that's something i think we can all take heart from. we've been through a tough few years. the rule of law still works in this country. >> charles, we have been speaking about this for months. someone we have not heard from all of this time including tonight is jack smith. he has worked quietly, meticulously, and here we are. anyone who says we know what's in there, we don't. ari melber said it, the whole world is listening to jack smith and he hasn't said anything. >> that's right. i'm so glad you brought that up. the take away is the american pu
we don't know doj is going to indict in any particular case until it happens. it's a long path, it's a frustrating path. what americans can take away tonight is that the process worked, that a career justice department official acting as a special counsel has led a team with evidence sufficient to convince a grand jury to indict the former president, and that is a process not grounded in politics no matter what donald trump tries to convince people of. this is a purely professional process...
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what could the trump doj due to make your life difficult? >> well just the other day trump said i should be imprisoned. of course this is not the first time he's called for jailing me and you have to wonder, could president trump unshackled by any opposition somehow use the justice department to imprison his enemies? there are a lot of things we've seen take place in this country in the last several years that we would never have imagined possible. we thought we were exceptional in the sense that this was a problem other countries had, it wasn't a problem for the united states. but we have seen since trump's election a steady degradation of our institutions and we will be given a chance again. you can't bet against how he will try to abuse the justice department. but i would also say it's a badge of honor to be on his enemies list. as franklin roosevelt said there are times when you can judge a person by the enemies they make. and i think they view me as a threat, they don't like the work i did on the january six committee or my work in lead
what could the trump doj due to make your life difficult? >> well just the other day trump said i should be imprisoned. of course this is not the first time he's called for jailing me and you have to wonder, could president trump unshackled by any opposition somehow use the justice department to imprison his enemies? there are a lot of things we've seen take place in this country in the last several years that we would never have imagined possible. we thought we were exceptional in the...
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the doj said this was not them going rogue but at trump's direction. nauta had denied knowledge of the documents. the fbi which is part of what jack smith went out of his way to praise today the work of law enforcement, they questioned him, he got the receipts. really if you went to the max and technically wouldn't go this high in sentence but technically up to 20 years in prison for some of those counts. maya, this is a new character here late in the season's ark, and yet a pivotal one it would seem. >> this is -- walt nauta comes out in this indictment like matthew calimari and weisselberg and the henchman, always around, always doing his bidding, always protecting him. in this case it's trump gets this subpoena on may 11th. then he has this conversation on the 22nd by phone with nauta for 34 minutes and then nauta goes and moves boxes. and then on may 22nd -- 23rd, they have another conversation, the attorneys come. trump talks to nauta on the 24th, 30 minutes and then he goes and moves boxes. it's like every time there's this activity between eithe
the doj said this was not them going rogue but at trump's direction. nauta had denied knowledge of the documents. the fbi which is part of what jack smith went out of his way to praise today the work of law enforcement, they questioned him, he got the receipts. really if you went to the max and technically wouldn't go this high in sentence but technically up to 20 years in prison for some of those counts. maya, this is a new character here late in the season's ark, and yet a pivotal one it...
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you also dealt with the january 6 probe from doj. correct? >> yes, i did. >> is it fair to say -- we read some of what you said publically. is it fair so say you don't think that part of the case, from the same special counsel, you don't think it's heading towards an indictment of donald trump, but you think other people may be indicted? >> i'm not sure really. i don't believe that it's going to touch my former client. certainly, when it comes to january 6, were crimes committed, should people be indicted? yes. a lot have gone to trial. when it comes to the administration though, it's a very different question. when you look at the claims that were made at the time, in order for it to be something that you would criminally charge, you have to show that the claims that they made at the time were knowingly false. you would have do show that, for example, my former client knew that there was no fraud in the election when he claimed that. i don't think that anybody can reasonably state that donald trump doesn't believe that there was fraud in tha
you also dealt with the january 6 probe from doj. correct? >> yes, i did. >> is it fair to say -- we read some of what you said publically. is it fair so say you don't think that part of the case, from the same special counsel, you don't think it's heading towards an indictment of donald trump, but you think other people may be indicted? >> i'm not sure really. i don't believe that it's going to touch my former client. certainly, when it comes to january 6, were crimes...
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Jun 5, 2023
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as for donald trump, how can doj possibly charge me who did nothing wrong. greatest witch hunt of all time. jack smith has the evidence. he apparently has the kind of evidence that you don't usually hear like a lawyer's contemporaneous voice note. you go back a couple of decades it wasn't as easy to make those notes on your phone. that's why today's meeting is important. i always try to level with you about what we know and don't know. we don't know what was said in the meeting. we don't know if they agreed to meet again, and we don't know if jack smith heard something in the meeting and decided to go check it out or run it down. when you see internet speculation that we're on the verge of something, we just don't know that yet. we do know is that donald trump was clamoring for a meeting with attorney general garland, that would be unusual. we know that today the doj rejected that and they said no and they made smith for the very first time available. why have such a big face-to-face showdown? how much time is left and why is the trump team clearly so concer
as for donald trump, how can doj possibly charge me who did nothing wrong. greatest witch hunt of all time. jack smith has the evidence. he apparently has the kind of evidence that you don't usually hear like a lawyer's contemporaneous voice note. you go back a couple of decades it wasn't as easy to make those notes on your phone. that's why today's meeting is important. i always try to level with you about what we know and don't know. we don't know what was said in the meeting. we don't know...
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him as the head of doj, but we'll let him sit this block out. >> oh, please, no. i mean, what is that? >> there was no one more willing to help trump annihilate the rule of law while he was president than bill barr. i have a lot of skepticism about what this is and where these things come from and why he says these things, but he knows trump's watching. why do you think he's out there making these arguments about how cooked trump's goose is on the criminal side of the mar-a-lago case? >> i think this is the bill barr that washington thought they knew when he got appointed, and then a different bill barr was captured by the position and the idea that he would have the position and he tried to do the bidding of a guy who had -- >> he did the bidding. he appointed bull durham. >> and one of the things that's most outrageous he did was setting aside a guilty plea. someone stood in front of a court and said i am guilty, i swear i'm guilty. mike flynn said i am guilty. that never happens at doj, ever, that you pull a guilty plea away because you decide, oh, never mind.
him as the head of doj, but we'll let him sit this block out. >> oh, please, no. i mean, what is that? >> there was no one more willing to help trump annihilate the rule of law while he was president than bill barr. i have a lot of skepticism about what this is and where these things come from and why he says these things, but he knows trump's watching. why do you think he's out there making these arguments about how cooked trump's goose is on the criminal side of the mar-a-lago...
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the doj may be looking to bring some charges to florida. who from the doj questioned him? "the guardian" is reporting the counterintelligence chief led the questioning. he appeared for grand jury proceedings covering the espionage side of the investigation, as opposed to the obstruction side. the previously unreported involvement of bratt could focus on potential espionage act violations, particularly whether trump showed off national security documents to people at his mar-a-lago resort. a recent focus of the investigation. joining me now is our panel of msnbc legal analysts. attorney lisa rubin, former u.s. attorney joyce vance, who is a professor at the university of alabama school of law, and former federal prosecutor paul butler, who is a professor at georgetown school of law. i am among the well educated bunch. to you first, lisa. you are in miami. talk about this testimony today. >> it was fascinating because as you know, most of our viewers are not familiar with him as a character in this scenario. he was trump's spokesperson and communications director after he le
the doj may be looking to bring some charges to florida. who from the doj questioned him? "the guardian" is reporting the counterintelligence chief led the questioning. he appeared for grand jury proceedings covering the espionage side of the investigation, as opposed to the obstruction side. the previously unreported involvement of bratt could focus on potential espionage act violations, particularly whether trump showed off national security documents to people at his mar-a-lago...
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Jun 11, 2023
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and the doj has to be very careful about the extent to which they are defending themselves. and speaking on the record, talk to me specifically about how trump could -- especially with lots of republican lawmakers repeating his claims. and just how in general we get people to read the document itself, and understand the court issued politics aside. >> that is one of the big differences when you are dealing with trying a case that is of national import. because there is, of course, the actual trial. you have a jury and it's relatively easy this is what joyce and i and many others are trying to do. and yes, the defense is supposed to distract and raise issues and our job when we were prosecutors's as joyce said to keep a very focused. but here there is also the court of public opinion and the issue is can there be such an undermining of faith in the system prior to the jury ever here in case. there are ways the judge can sit out jurors who have preconceived notions and can't put those aside one way or the other. because a lot of times you have people who aren't as candid as th
and the doj has to be very careful about the extent to which they are defending themselves. and speaking on the record, talk to me specifically about how trump could -- especially with lots of republican lawmakers repeating his claims. and just how in general we get people to read the document itself, and understand the court issued politics aside. >> that is one of the big differences when you are dealing with trying a case that is of national import. because there is, of course, the...
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donald trump's lawyers were at doj headquarters yesterday meeting with him and other doj officials. jack smith and other doj officials and sources familiar with the investigation told nbc news the grand jury in washington, d.c. is set to meet again this week after a lull. we've also just learned from sources familiar another grand jury will hear from a witness in florida. so what's the deal with that? what are two grand juries doing for the special counsel's investigation and who else could jack smith be looking at? joining me now is nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent, ken dilanian. nbc news correspondent, garrett haake and in florida, nbc legal analyst, lisa ruben. ken, what does florida have to do with the special counsel's investigation? >> all we know is that we expect at least one witness to testify before a grand jury in the southern district of florida in connection with this case. we don't even know that this grand jury is specifically devoted to this investigation. it may well just be a local grand jury and the range of possibilities is extreme. everything from
donald trump's lawyers were at doj headquarters yesterday meeting with him and other doj officials. jack smith and other doj officials and sources familiar with the investigation told nbc news the grand jury in washington, d.c. is set to meet again this week after a lull. we've also just learned from sources familiar another grand jury will hear from a witness in florida. so what's the deal with that? what are two grand juries doing for the special counsel's investigation and who else could...
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we'll start with a speedy trial idea -- doj will seek a speedy trial. you and i both know his lawyer, speedy trial has a different meaning in the legal world when it comes to criminal cases. but in this instance, do you think jackson has meant it more in the colloquial sense? >> i think jen in it and the clerk will sense, but a speedy trial is a thing in florida, right? they have what's called a florida rocket docket, they have gotten in trouble for pushing through cases that have warp speed as fast as possible. i think speedy trial statute in florida -- 70 days from indictments to trials, that's the goal of the speedy trial in florida. the problem, katie, is that this is an unprecedented case. i don't think they're going to shove trump along the committee with which they travel long a foreclosure hearing in florida. this is going to take a lot of time. that's even before you add in the fact that you have trump judge, aileen cannon, going over the initial stages of this trial. she's going to introduce delay and every opportunity to help donald trump. so
we'll start with a speedy trial idea -- doj will seek a speedy trial. you and i both know his lawyer, speedy trial has a different meaning in the legal world when it comes to criminal cases. but in this instance, do you think jackson has meant it more in the colloquial sense? >> i think jen in it and the clerk will sense, but a speedy trial is a thing in florida, right? they have what's called a florida rocket docket, they have gotten in trouble for pushing through cases that have warp...
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Jun 20, 2023
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and the doj was also looking very closely at mr. biden's foreign business entanglements and whether he represented foreign interests in the united states. there were no charges of any kind, no wrongdoing found by this u.s. attorney appointed by donald trump in those matters. and just to be very clear, we're already seeing criticism from donald trump and others that this is the biden justice department cutting a sweetheart deal with the president's son. this investigation was run by the trump-appointed u.s. attorney in delaware, who is treated like an independent counsel, no involvement from -- by the attorney general merrick garland or senior officials in the justice department other than career tax lawyers who have to be involved in any tax-related case. but that's the bottom line here. hunter biden agreeing to plead guilty to misdemeanors that should result in no jail time, ana. >> carol, this investigation has gone on for years since 2018. what is your reaction to how this ended? >> i don't have a particularly strong reaction to
and the doj was also looking very closely at mr. biden's foreign business entanglements and whether he represented foreign interests in the united states. there were no charges of any kind, no wrongdoing found by this u.s. attorney appointed by donald trump in those matters. and just to be very clear, we're already seeing criticism from donald trump and others that this is the biden justice department cutting a sweetheart deal with the president's son. this investigation was run by the...
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initials and online organizations sort of period is doj's. so there you go. >> jennifer, pull back out of this when administration change. lots of officials and agencies change. what do you read into this that's different from the reporting? either since reporting or donald trump himself saying i'm your retribution. the keeping a bliss. how should we look at this? how much of this is really serious and weirdly polarizing and how much of this is what governments do? there is a distinction between people who are political appointees at who as you say -- there is a group of people who are the permanent worker bees in the government who do their job, ordinary fbi agents. lawyers throughout the justice department. those people are not a subject to the political whims of the new administration. the reason why we have a civil service. the reason why we have gotten away from this patronage system that was infamous in the -- weiyi value a non-corruptible professional public civil service that does the peoples business. that is loyal to the people and
initials and online organizations sort of period is doj's. so there you go. >> jennifer, pull back out of this when administration change. lots of officials and agencies change. what do you read into this that's different from the reporting? either since reporting or donald trump himself saying i'm your retribution. the keeping a bliss. how should we look at this? how much of this is really serious and weirdly polarizing and how much of this is what governments do? there is a distinction...
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Jun 21, 2023
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if you are the president's leading political opponent doj tries to literally put you in jail and give you prison time. if you are the president's son, you get a sweetheart deal. so the goal posts have moved. it's likely no matter how the hunter biden investigation played out the republicans would never really be satisfied. this is exact lewhat most republicans said they wanted, but in the words of former president donald trump people are going wild over the hunter biden scam with the doj. today conservatives and conservative media threw an absolute fit claiming this plea deal is evidence the doj went too easy on hunter and how it's all evidence of a two tiered justice system. that could not be farther from the truth. let's look at the two cases. first, there's the investigation into hunter biden's taxes which was launched by the trump justice department back in 2018. the investigation was assigned to the trump appointed u.s. attorney for delaware, david weiss. when biden took office he could have easily replaced delaware's u.s. attorney. delaware is biden's home state. presidents repl
if you are the president's leading political opponent doj tries to literally put you in jail and give you prison time. if you are the president's son, you get a sweetheart deal. so the goal posts have moved. it's likely no matter how the hunter biden investigation played out the republicans would never really be satisfied. this is exact lewhat most republicans said they wanted, but in the words of former president donald trump people are going wild over the hunter biden scam with the doj. today...
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the agency referred this to the doj and the doj was unreasonable. they didn't let us do rolling production. they didn't let us, they picked an arbitrary date for compliance. they put the heat on us. other than that there is a lot of wiggle room. >> but the former president was not compliant. weigh in on that if you will. having kind of a live back and forth here if we can. a pre-child trial. >> yeah, no look no surprise. but dina i think has constructed a pretty good narrative. i mean, at the end of the day's offense has to have some relationship to the facts. so at least a good defense right? and you need a competing narrative ideally. and i don't know if that would necessarily carry the day to an acquittal. but, look the name of the game here is not necessarily an acquittal. first of, all it will be delayed, delay, delay. opec trump becomes the president and pardon himself. but if this does go to trial all trump asked to do is persuade one person on the jury of his story, right? or that he's being persecuted on the jury will hang. and trump has a
the agency referred this to the doj and the doj was unreasonable. they didn't let us do rolling production. they didn't let us, they picked an arbitrary date for compliance. they put the heat on us. other than that there is a lot of wiggle room. >> but the former president was not compliant. weigh in on that if you will. having kind of a live back and forth here if we can. a pre-child trial. >> yeah, no look no surprise. but dina i think has constructed a pretty good narrative. i...
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two things that happened for the doj to make this statement. the first is, the court is going to have to unseal the document. the attorney general has said, on multiple occasions, doj speaks to its records. what i heard joyce vance say earlier, and they're absolutely right, is that with in the four corners of an indictment, prosecutors can speak. and i think that's what should happen. stephanie, one additional point, if i may observe, last august there was about a two and a half, three-day period during the search of mar-a-lago when the news became public on a monday, and the attorney general address the nation that thursday. i think that could reasonably be interpreted as too much time. i ran the justice department of communications during that period. my hope here is that the doj will condense that timeframe and speak quickly when the court allows to the american people. >> you are definitely the expert on this subject tonight, frank. you have been following this closely closely. what's your reaction? >> a couple of things. one is that we are
two things that happened for the doj to make this statement. the first is, the court is going to have to unseal the document. the attorney general has said, on multiple occasions, doj speaks to its records. what i heard joyce vance say earlier, and they're absolutely right, is that with in the four corners of an indictment, prosecutors can speak. and i think that's what should happen. stephanie, one additional point, if i may observe, last august there was about a two and a half, three-day...
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now, the same thing is happening with the doj and the fbi. and it is the same thing in the sense that, if you read the indictment, you know that not a single witness is a democrat. you know that a grand jury of people, selected to be on a jury, decided that he should be indicted. he was indicted by a special counsel. and yet, the only answer, because again, these folks are just about defending donald trump. whatever the charges. are the only answer is, the fbi is corrupt in the doj is corrupt. the problem with that, if you spend years saying the electoral system is corrupt, the department of justice the fbi is corrupt, eventually, what happens people lose faith in the key institutions of their democracy. that is what is happening right now. >> in the wake of the initial discoveries of these documents, both the former president of biden of pence as well. you called for a briefing, and you got one. you said at the time, quote, having been given a flavor, this is a very serious issue. this wasn't stuff that we can say clearly does not matter. it
now, the same thing is happening with the doj and the fbi. and it is the same thing in the sense that, if you read the indictment, you know that not a single witness is a democrat. you know that a grand jury of people, selected to be on a jury, decided that he should be indicted. he was indicted by a special counsel. and yet, the only answer, because again, these folks are just about defending donald trump. whatever the charges. are the only answer is, the fbi is corrupt in the doj is corrupt....
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here's how doj will handle that. they will do the same thing that they do in every case where a prosecutor is alleged to have engaged in misconduct. the office of professional responsibility will open a case. they will take a look at what the provable facts are. they will determine whether the prosecutor, in fact, engaged in misconduct, and if so they will discipline that prosecutor appropriately. there are a full range of sanctions they can use. even based on what the trustee is saying, this does not sound like something that rises to the level of being conduct that would have any impact on this case. there's no suggestion that evidence was tampered with or witnesses were tampered with. in fact, it's a little bit illusory in the sense that there's no way that federal prosecutors can influence who is or isn't elected for a superior court judgeship in the district of columbia. this seems like a little bit of an issue to obfuscate the issues and more of an attempt to pound the table when you don't have a defense. >> th
here's how doj will handle that. they will do the same thing that they do in every case where a prosecutor is alleged to have engaged in misconduct. the office of professional responsibility will open a case. they will take a look at what the provable facts are. they will determine whether the prosecutor, in fact, engaged in misconduct, and if so they will discipline that prosecutor appropriately. there are a full range of sanctions they can use. even based on what the trustee is saying, this...
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Jun 23, 2023
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that is why the doj's timeline against trump so is damning. the espionage charges in the trump case are obviously serious crimes. they impact national security. but if we use that hannity standard for immediate compliance and apply it to, well, what he did, he was talking about interactions over, first of all, smaller issues. smaller accusations. things that are like traffic stops sometimes. and two, his "just comply" standard was supposed to be applied in minutes. not the months that trump got in deference from the justice department. and there were right-wing lectures. you probably remember them. even when an unarmed man ran from police after a traffic stop and the officer shot him in the back and killed him. that was the consequence for walter scott. people said, he shouldn't have run, he should have complied. his punishment was immediate extralegal execution. the officer you see on the right was ultimately given a 20-year prison sentence. remember jacob blake? he walked away from police. so you had headlines like this, police shoot him in
that is why the doj's timeline against trump so is damning. the espionage charges in the trump case are obviously serious crimes. they impact national security. but if we use that hannity standard for immediate compliance and apply it to, well, what he did, he was talking about interactions over, first of all, smaller issues. smaller accusations. things that are like traffic stops sometimes. and two, his "just comply" standard was supposed to be applied in minutes. not the months that...
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Jun 1, 2023
06/23
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clark as you know was at doj. how do you think we should assess that part of the probe where no offsite planners have yet been indicted? and does that mean they're not culpable, it's okay? >> i can't say for sure, but my guess is their challenge is proving criminal intent, especially with respect to trump. again, because he's surrounding by that protective belt. even though he's talking to some pillow guy, some pillow guy telling him, it will lead to this. so proving his state of mind is difficult in any circumstance, but especially with january 6th, so it doesn't surprise me if it doesn't move forward, and i doubt there would be charges at least against trump. >> would you doubt white house officials would be charged for substantive related to the action. >> more likely with trump. those people were in the oval office saying things that they can now say, ohhing i believe that to be true, so i wasn't acting with the appropriate criminal intent. >> interesting to get your analysis there, and viewers who happened to
clark as you know was at doj. how do you think we should assess that part of the probe where no offsite planners have yet been indicted? and does that mean they're not culpable, it's okay? >> i can't say for sure, but my guess is their challenge is proving criminal intent, especially with respect to trump. again, because he's surrounding by that protective belt. even though he's talking to some pillow guy, some pillow guy telling him, it will lead to this. so proving his state of mind is...
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Jun 15, 2023
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because the nil rightfully points out this case is a very strong case at the doj is making. it's very straightforward and it is very simple, there are off-ramps for her. they suggest that the doj may have in its back pocket, a potential indictment in bedminster, which is where some of the recordings trump made where he acknowledged that he had classified documents in his possession and that you can declassified them post presidency. do you think bedminster exists as a sort of fail safe for the doj, or is that a paranoid fantastical thinking? >> you know, it's an interesting theory. there are certainly allegations that it was a bedminster in new jersey, that he disclosed to unauthorized people about classified information. so, it could be a basis for a charge. but it seems like the indictment in florida is a very solid one. it's got evidence -- 31 counts of espionage act violations, as well as six other counts against donald trump, and so i think they're going full speed on that one. i don't know about this back pocket new jersey. maybe it does, maybe it doesn't exist. i thin
because the nil rightfully points out this case is a very strong case at the doj is making. it's very straightforward and it is very simple, there are off-ramps for her. they suggest that the doj may have in its back pocket, a potential indictment in bedminster, which is where some of the recordings trump made where he acknowledged that he had classified documents in his possession and that you can declassified them post presidency. do you think bedminster exists as a sort of fail safe for the...
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Jun 11, 2023
06/23
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the other thing i heard about the possibility of moving doj, doj moving to recuse cannon, it would just take time. they know that time is of the essence here. i wonder, katie, the extent to which you believe that is playing out in their calculus? >> well, you know, there were a lot of people that were surprised, alicia, when this case was brought here in this particular venue anyway. i have tried multiple cases in that federal courthouse. the cases move quickly, why? because when you are in state court and circuit court, when you have a stake or felony, we call that circus court. it's circuit court, we call it circus court. when you are in federal court, there are some real rules. real protocols. and real speed at which things get done. federal judges don't play. donald trump may try to delay, as jonathan was talking about. that's definitely a donald trump playbook run. but at the end of the day, the doj could say, i believe in my case. special counsel jack smith has presented an impeccably detailed indictment. we know he probably has more evidence up his sleeve that we haven't even see
the other thing i heard about the possibility of moving doj, doj moving to recuse cannon, it would just take time. they know that time is of the essence here. i wonder, katie, the extent to which you believe that is playing out in their calculus? >> well, you know, there were a lot of people that were surprised, alicia, when this case was brought here in this particular venue anyway. i have tried multiple cases in that federal courthouse. the cases move quickly, why? because when you are...
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Jun 21, 2023
06/23
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while, at the same time, doj made sure to treat hunter biden by the book. the idea that trump is being prosecuted unfairly? that is absurd. but don't just take my word for it. here is trump's former attorney general, bill barr, in an op-ed just yesterday. quote, trump's indictment is not the result of unfair government persecution. this is a situation entirely of his own making. the effort to present trump as a victim in the mar-a-lago document affair is cynical, political propaganda. today, we've got the major news that the judge overseeing the trump mar-a-lago documents case, has set august 14th as the date for that trial to begin. there is a good chance that date could get pushed back, the august date is significant nonetheless. trump's case is being handled by the trump appointed judge, aileen cannon, who has been differential to trump in the past. you remember that. so, there has been a worry that she might use her control of the schedule in this case to help trump delay it. at least so far, that does not seem to be the case. and that means that we cou
while, at the same time, doj made sure to treat hunter biden by the book. the idea that trump is being prosecuted unfairly? that is absurd. but don't just take my word for it. here is trump's former attorney general, bill barr, in an op-ed just yesterday. quote, trump's indictment is not the result of unfair government persecution. this is a situation entirely of his own making. the effort to present trump as a victim in the mar-a-lago document affair is cynical, political propaganda. today,...