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jack smith mean for trump? >> well, erin, what you're seeing is prosecutors trying to find a way to box out the former president and his legal team. because as you as you noted, what they're trying to do is delay this to the point where it makes it impossible for tanya chutkan and the dc trial to find find room on the calendar. they know that obviously, given the fact that this that the that the immunity question is now before the supreme court we anticipate that what they're going to do is look for something that will make sure that that the dc judge doesn't have room on the calendar between now and november to sketch chilling new trial. and so what jack smith is doing here in making this request is trying to at least have the judge in in in florida put a put on the calendar a date of july 8th. now, we don't know whether she'll go for this. there are a lot of complicated issues because this has to do with classified info aileen cannon, the judge, there has pretty much been been helpful with the former presiden
jack smith mean for trump? >> well, erin, what you're seeing is prosecutors trying to find a way to box out the former president and his legal team. because as you as you noted, what they're trying to do is delay this to the point where it makes it impossible for tanya chutkan and the dc trial to find find room on the calendar. they know that obviously, given the fact that this that the that the immunity question is now before the supreme court we anticipate that what they're going to do...
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Mar 1, 2024
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smith gets his way and gets this july 8th start so if jack smith gets a july 8 start, we do probably get a verdict before the election. and so there are two routes. one is based on jack smith's own estimation, you'd probably get the end of trial around august 19, trump's estimation is it's going to take a longer period of time for the trial so that you get a verdict and the end of trial around september 16th. but both of those, uh, well, before both the alliance, while before the election, that's right. so that's why the july 8 and whether or not the judge cannon goes with the justice department is key to that outcome. >> so ben doesn't mean do you think there's any coincidence that smith makes this move a day after the supreme court said it would hear arguments on trump's immunity while he's in office. and they said that they're going to take that up and that means that likely will not get a verdict by election day in any scenario. >> it does mean that it means the florida case is the one that can move forward. the quickest. >> i >> don't think it's an accident, but i think this hea
smith gets his way and gets this july 8th start so if jack smith gets a july 8 start, we do probably get a verdict before the election. and so there are two routes. one is based on jack smith's own estimation, you'd probably get the end of trial around august 19, trump's estimation is it's going to take a longer period of time for the trial so that you get a verdict and the end of trial around september 16th. but both of those, uh, well, before both the alliance, while before the election,...
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Mar 12, 2024
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i find it unimaginable that jack smith had any knowledge that mr. mueller was going to come forward with this because i know that that is the last thing he wants. and he has a strong stance against attaining juries. i also, in my own mind, as an attorney, have some questions about his lawyer was thinking in letting him, in letting him go on with this. on the other hand, there is significant factual support for the evidence that he laid out. and they can prove almost everything he talked about without him. he adds color, significant, but keep in mind they have a lot of this stuff on video. they have testimony from other people who participated in mar- a-lago in terms of assisting mr. de la vega and some of the obstruction activity. i don't think it is not harmful but it is highly unusual and i am sure that we will see mr. butler again on tv. you have said that if donald trump doesn't win, he is going to jail. you are confident that these trials are actually going to happen? >> well, i am confident that it will happen at some point if he is not the el
i find it unimaginable that jack smith had any knowledge that mr. mueller was going to come forward with this because i know that that is the last thing he wants. and he has a strong stance against attaining juries. i also, in my own mind, as an attorney, have some questions about his lawyer was thinking in letting him, in letting him go on with this. on the other hand, there is significant factual support for the evidence that he laid out. and they can prove almost everything he talked about...
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Mar 1, 2024
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feet jack smith drag his feet. you got to remember i wasn't part of this case during the investigative phases. they could have brought this indictment much earlier. they didn't at the time we had mar-a-lago, which was going very fast that's a lot of activity. january 6, which was sitting there pretty much at a standstill. all the sudden, he brings his snap indictment and all of a sudden the next few weeks realize, oh, shoot, i forgot to interview a whole bunch of witnesses. the timing of the indictment is something that's control. another thing >> all right. we'll leave it there doj are >> confusion. like that? >> well, we'll leave it there with the two of you on that one. does that conversation i think it doesn't matter. it's doj >> i think that's a longer conversation. we'll have to continue another de elie, mr.. tim parlatore. thank you both very much >> thank you. >> and next, the dual at the border, the rhetoric, the promises, and biden's dare her to donald trump standby >> my best reputation is ruined. >> it'
feet jack smith drag his feet. you got to remember i wasn't part of this case during the investigative phases. they could have brought this indictment much earlier. they didn't at the time we had mar-a-lago, which was going very fast that's a lot of activity. january 6, which was sitting there pretty much at a standstill. all the sudden, he brings his snap indictment and all of a sudden the next few weeks realize, oh, shoot, i forgot to interview a whole bunch of witnesses. the timing of the...
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Mar 3, 2024
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jack smith of course is not a principal officer. inferior officers can be appointed if congress by law vests in the head of the cabinet department the power to appoint a senior officer. congress has passed no law vesting the attorney general the power to appoint a special counsel like jack smith. congress has a vested power to appointed inferior officers and the secretaries of energy, education, transportation and hhs it has not done so with the justice department when therefore jack smith appointment is illegal and unconstitutional. every single thing he has done since he was appointed a year end a half ago is illegal, no and void. >> i want the american people to understand your background. you used to serve as a top legal advisor to a former attorney general of the united states you and i worked with the office of legal counsel which is considered that legal constitutional brain trust of the federal government. you are not coming out of left field you are looking at the constitution, you are looking at the statutes and saying thi
jack smith of course is not a principal officer. inferior officers can be appointed if congress by law vests in the head of the cabinet department the power to appoint a senior officer. congress has passed no law vesting the attorney general the power to appoint a special counsel like jack smith. congress has a vested power to appointed inferior officers and the secretaries of energy, education, transportation and hhs it has not done so with the justice department when therefore jack smith...
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so if that holds true, jack smith would then just be starting. let's say we get that vision and it goes against president trump's claims. now, the case goes, starts moving forward again. you have about another three months of pretrial machinations before that thing could finally get in front of a jury. so that puts him with something else to do in july and he's now trying to squeeze mar-lago in there. >> well, he is saying jack, they're saying july 8th, the trump team says they want to ask the election, but they're also saying, well, also maybe august 12, is it what is the tactical advantage to that date >> so like jack smith, they're asking for the world they wanted after the election. they know they're not going to get that. they asked for that once before earlier in this case, and that was rejected. so now they're saying if you're going to put it on before, let's have it start on august 12th. coincidentally, august is the month that the dc case could possibly if everything goes right for jack smith, could possibly get on the calendar, but not
so if that holds true, jack smith would then just be starting. let's say we get that vision and it goes against president trump's claims. now, the case goes, starts moving forward again. you have about another three months of pretrial machinations before that thing could finally get in front of a jury. so that puts him with something else to do in july and he's now trying to squeeze mar-lago in there. >> well, he is saying jack, they're saying july 8th, the trump team says they want to...
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Mar 15, 2024
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jack smith won a conviction. donald was a likely buys presidential contender in 2016 and that was reversed in 2016 eight-zero. jack smith is a political scud missile who sent in to take out presidential contenders like he did with bob mcdonald. on the presidential immunity argument there is president in the civil context. the president of the united states is a -- is immune from civil prosecution or the perimeter of his official acts under that nixon case we discussed 40 years ago. if federal judges are immune from criminal prosecution absolutely immune from criminal prosecution, and so are members of congress, why wanted the president of the united it would destroy our country. another example besides biden and riley is president obama and his legal advisor, now federal circuit judge david baron on the first circuit court of appeals in bostodavid baron advised president obama it was lawful for obama to order an extra traditional drone strike on two american citizens including a minor. if obama is not immune from
jack smith won a conviction. donald was a likely buys presidential contender in 2016 and that was reversed in 2016 eight-zero. jack smith is a political scud missile who sent in to take out presidential contenders like he did with bob mcdonald. on the presidential immunity argument there is president in the civil context. the president of the united states is a -- is immune from civil prosecution or the perimeter of his official acts under that nixon case we discussed 40 years ago. if federal...
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Mar 31, 2024
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>> there is no way that jack smith is going to succeed to the jury instructions. if he does, the case is over. secondly, it's a head, trump wins, tells, his losing. there is no way he will let that happen. the problem is judge cannon did not issue an order here of jury instructions. just said parties, i want you to engage in the following scenarios. it's loose enough that i think it's not enough for jack smith to go directly to the 11th circuit yet. what will happen is jack smith is going to push back and say hey, what you are doing here is really erroneous. your interpretation under the presidential records act is wrong and you need to think about this again. rethink what you just did. if she won't, we will take the extraordinary step. i do think the 11th circuit going to reverse, repudiate. dropped the case entirely. >> you are there in palm beach. what are you hearing from folks about judge cannons case in the handling of donald trump? >> people think it's appalling, what has been happening. they're very anti-cannon. trump's biggest supporters silent about it o
>> there is no way that jack smith is going to succeed to the jury instructions. if he does, the case is over. secondly, it's a head, trump wins, tells, his losing. there is no way he will let that happen. the problem is judge cannon did not issue an order here of jury instructions. just said parties, i want you to engage in the following scenarios. it's loose enough that i think it's not enough for jack smith to go directly to the 11th circuit yet. what will happen is jack smith is going...
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jack smith wants it sooner. the defense later. it says it won't be fair unless it's much later as an after the election and john keynes election year journey all over the map, taking him to pennsylvania tonight to see how seniors view a race between the two oldest presidential candidates ever good evening. thanks for joining us. we begin tonight, keeping them honest with immigration, the issue americans now called their top concern according to recent polling. today, president biden and former president trump made dueling visits. the texas southern border, biden to brownsville, trump to eagle pass, to cities about 300 miles apart. two candidates who each in his own way has failed to fill fix a broken and severely overburdened border security and asylum system. president biden and many believed by omission, by not making the problem enough of a priority until recently, even after a year of increasing numbers of people crossing the border and rising border encounters which set new records and don't trump by commission. he's actively
jack smith wants it sooner. the defense later. it says it won't be fair unless it's much later as an after the election and john keynes election year journey all over the map, taking him to pennsylvania tonight to see how seniors view a race between the two oldest presidential candidates ever good evening. thanks for joining us. we begin tonight, keeping them honest with immigration, the issue americans now called their top concern according to recent polling. today, president biden and former...
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Mar 19, 2024
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so how does jack smith get this? can he do a pretrial ruling on appeal? normally you can in a criminal case. can you get a written saying 11th circuit help me, the judge is wrong on the law as evidence by her proposed scenarios, we need you to intervene so she doesn't give the wrong instruction, and that's what people need to understand. jury instructions, these are instructions given to jurors to tell them what the law is. but if her law is wrong going in, the jury is screwed. they have no options left if they're being told by the judge to apply the wrong law. >> and the framing in these two binary situations seems a bit premature, certainly out of left field. >> not even premature, it's just flawed, it's wrong, and then it's premature as well. >> carroll lenning, thank you so much. everyone else stick around. when we come back, donald trump may have finally run out of options realizing he may have to raise half a billion dollars somehow in the next six days. the reality of this deadline is finally sinking in and it is freaking him out. raging at the jud
so how does jack smith get this? can he do a pretrial ruling on appeal? normally you can in a criminal case. can you get a written saying 11th circuit help me, the judge is wrong on the law as evidence by her proposed scenarios, we need you to intervene so she doesn't give the wrong instruction, and that's what people need to understand. jury instructions, these are instructions given to jurors to tell them what the law is. but if her law is wrong going in, the jury is screwed. they have no...
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but, today they got shut down, at least on one front by the jack smith team about this idea that you can't start a trial within a couple months of an election. obviously, you know a lot about these things. >> sure, the question that judge cannon and her rulings has favored the defense, even her reasoning has gone out of its way to find fault with the government and to side wherever possible with the defense and ways that i think continue to be pretty shocking. remember she's the judge that was reversed twice, before the case was indicted we do know the trial date, she made various comment saying that she thought that the date that was sought by the government in july was unduly, optimistic. she asked a lot of questions of the defense about not having a trial at all, and certainly not in the lead up of the election. i was surprised she brought up the doj internal rule, because the internal rule of the department down in any way give rise to the defense, they are not enforceable in any court, they are just internal gots to the department. that's something that the judge knows well havi
but, today they got shut down, at least on one front by the jack smith team about this idea that you can't start a trial within a couple months of an election. obviously, you know a lot about these things. >> sure, the question that judge cannon and her rulings has favored the defense, even her reasoning has gone out of its way to find fault with the government and to side wherever possible with the defense and ways that i think continue to be pretty shocking. remember she's the judge...
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cannon signaled that jack smith's suggested july 8th trial date would be a no-go because the trial time frame for all the motion work that has to be done would be far too c compressed tt totally makes sense. of course trump's lawyers want this travesty to be postponed until after the election. i have an idea, how about holding off until and unless joe biden is brought up on charges for his own concealment of government records? all right, meanwhile, not a good idea to keep digging when you are already sinking but that's what smith's office did when his associate intimated that the judge wasn't moving quickly enough to which he tersely replied i can assure you that in this building there is a good deal of judicial work going on. oh. now, our reporters david spunt and jake gibb son are reporting that if they had to choose a date for the federal appeal, trump's legal team said they could do august 12th to avoid running right up until the election. of course, if a trial takes, let's say, six weeks, which is what they're projecting, keeping trump in a courtroom, now, that's the ultimate in e
cannon signaled that jack smith's suggested july 8th trial date would be a no-go because the trial time frame for all the motion work that has to be done would be far too c compressed tt totally makes sense. of course trump's lawyers want this travesty to be postponed until after the election. i have an idea, how about holding off until and unless joe biden is brought up on charges for his own concealment of government records? all right, meanwhile, not a good idea to keep digging when you are...
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jack smith's team said they won't violate that, but how can they say that now? there could be delays because, you know, co-defendant's attorneys are talking september 9th as the absolute earliest. that's in violation of the 60-day rule. >> well, yeah, but it's not just that, there's a federal prosecutor's handbook for dealing with election offenses, and it makes it very clear that federal prosecutors are not supposed to take actions which interfere in elections, particularly election outcomes. jack smith waited, what, two years, two years to actually file this, these indictments, long after he had the evidence needed for that and, frankly, right as the campaign season for '24 was starting. so his denials that he's not trying to interfere with the election, i just think they fall flat. elizabeth: yeah. same with, you know, the georgia 2020 case. they waited years to file that too. >> right. elizabeth: let's get your reaction, tom, to cnn's ellie hoenig on the classified documents case going to trial in july or august. watch this. >> jack smith has now concluded i
jack smith's team said they won't violate that, but how can they say that now? there could be delays because, you know, co-defendant's attorneys are talking september 9th as the absolute earliest. that's in violation of the 60-day rule. >> well, yeah, but it's not just that, there's a federal prosecutor's handbook for dealing with election offenses, and it makes it very clear that federal prosecutors are not supposed to take actions which interfere in elections, particularly election...
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Mar 3, 2024
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it was not necessary and you will look at the indictment on the jack smith brought. it has nothing to do with those proud boys. in fact, it doesn't make the claim that trump actually instigated the riot. as based upon his planning of this. so what were they waiting for? and i think merrick garland made a historic, historic mistake. >> history will look back one day and see if this, in fact, was a contributing factor in all of this. melissa, jennifer, think you so much. please stick around to help answer this question when we come back. when a conflict of interest actually conflicts of interest? we are talking about the case against d.a. fani willis in georgia, next. s ) at fisher investments we may look like other money managers, but we're different. (other money manager) how so? (fisher investments) we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client'' best interest. (fisher investments) so we don't sell any commission-based products. (other money manager) then how do you make money? (fisher investments) we have a simple management fee, structured so we do better when
it was not necessary and you will look at the indictment on the jack smith brought. it has nothing to do with those proud boys. in fact, it doesn't make the claim that trump actually instigated the riot. as based upon his planning of this. so what were they waiting for? and i think merrick garland made a historic, historic mistake. >> history will look back one day and see if this, in fact, was a contributing factor in all of this. melissa, jennifer, think you so much. please stick around...
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Mar 8, 2024
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shortly after jack smith's team submitted their filings, the judge overseeing the case aileen cannon scheduled a hearing for next thursday. joining our conversation, former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman is here and former acting assistant attorney general for national security at the justice department and msnbc legal analyst mary mccord is here. rick is still with me at the table. mary, let me ask you, jack smith's paper tells us most of what we know and from his paper and filings, he seems to be calling bs on all of trump's moves and arguments. is that a fair read? >> i think in legal terms that's what he's doing but using different verbiage and it had to be said. i mean, some of these motions, the motion to dismiss based on presidential immunity is based on an argument that mr. trump while he was president designated all of these classified documents as personal and, therefore, that was within the scope of his official acts that he should have immunity for. so you don't even have to get to the question, says jack smith, of whether a president, a former president i
shortly after jack smith's team submitted their filings, the judge overseeing the case aileen cannon scheduled a hearing for next thursday. joining our conversation, former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman is here and former acting assistant attorney general for national security at the justice department and msnbc legal analyst mary mccord is here. rick is still with me at the table. mary, let me ask you, jack smith's paper tells us most of what we know and from his paper and...
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Mar 10, 2024
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that is why jack smith is saying these aargue. s designed to delay the trial. >> the stormy danielles hush money case, will the consequences be a slap on the wrist for trump? >> i don't think so. you have to remember this same conduct was charged federally by the southern district of new york. and michael cohen was charged and convicted with exiting federal election fraud. and he served three years in prison for that. here are the charges are that donald trump falsified business records but in order to conceal or commit that same federal election law violation as well as violating other laws, l. again he could face prison time. somebody has. these are serious charges and should not be underestimated. >> yesterday, ty cobb was not impressed with trump in the new york civil cases. will trump keep his attorney on the team? >> if the civil cases where she is on all of the briefings for appeal he added another lawyer an appellate lawyer the same lawyer who argued in the dc immunity appeal. and so he has added lawyers but as of now, ali
that is why jack smith is saying these aargue. s designed to delay the trial. >> the stormy danielles hush money case, will the consequences be a slap on the wrist for trump? >> i don't think so. you have to remember this same conduct was charged federally by the southern district of new york. and michael cohen was charged and convicted with exiting federal election fraud. and he served three years in prison for that. here are the charges are that donald trump falsified business...
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Mar 27, 2024
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jack smith whatever happened to jack smith where is that guy? jack where are you man. jack, is that even a real guy. jack smith a bees jack spratt's wife could eat no fat, no lien, no lien, no lien no lien. please don't take my man. >> greg: jim i still understand the cut the money down to 145 billion who do you right the check to when there's no victim. if they say he has to send the check to new york city that means the money is disappearing. who is the victim i don't get this. >> exactly. >> he also says it's an honor who else would say it's an honor to pay that. he said he would pay it in cash if he has to you know who will show up with pounds of cash. >> greg: 145,000,001-dollar bills. >> and the rest in pennies. >> greg: i think he should do that i think tyrus came up with the idea. >> disney other commercial where he's on the two-dollar bill like actual ones we will pay in that. >> greg: 70, 80, you are them and bears himself. tyrus is this still backfiring and democrats? >> i feel i'm watching old movies were the villains just keep telling you what they are goi
jack smith whatever happened to jack smith where is that guy? jack where are you man. jack, is that even a real guy. jack smith a bees jack spratt's wife could eat no fat, no lien, no lien, no lien no lien. please don't take my man. >> greg: jim i still understand the cut the money down to 145 billion who do you right the check to when there's no victim. if they say he has to send the check to new york city that means the money is disappearing. who is the victim i don't get this. >>...
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Mar 13, 2024
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i think jack smith has adopted a surgical approach. he has determined based on the teams experience that further superseding the indictment is to know one's benefit of that means if and when the case were ever to be tried that we would see some of the things brian butler talks about in the interview come back and make a reappearance at trial including his testimony. >> there is been a fatalist attitude about this because it's unlikely to happen before november but there's a 50% chance that joe biden is the president come the end of november it means this trial could actually happen. i do wonder what you think the timeline is for this given canons and decision to set a date. >> a lot depends on what the supreme court does on immunity. trump has made multiple dismissals and two will be dealt with but presidential immunity is not one of them. depending on what the supreme court does the case could go away or come back to judge cannon to determine, even if he is immune, for acts that are alleged to be official. does the stuff in this indic
i think jack smith has adopted a surgical approach. he has determined based on the teams experience that further superseding the indictment is to know one's benefit of that means if and when the case were ever to be tried that we would see some of the things brian butler talks about in the interview come back and make a reappearance at trial including his testimony. >> there is been a fatalist attitude about this because it's unlikely to happen before november but there's a 50% chance...
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Mar 13, 2024
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what does that reflect on the part of jack smith? >> first of all, we don't know that they haven't recovered them. it could be they have determined all of those boxes were returned to mar-a-lago or somewhere else, that they essentially follow trump around wherever he went. i had a conversation with someone on your team tonight about our shared recollection that when trump showed up in new york last year for a deposition in a new york attorney general civil fraud case, he was seen outside trump tower with personal aides carting those very same sorts of bankers boxes. look, there is a reference in the indictment to the fact that carlos de olliva and others shuttled those boxes to mar-a-lago. >> in the back of my mind this is all pure speculation, i should warn everyone at home. that it seems jack smith probably more than anyone else at the department of justice has noods the aprieveiated calender within which he's working. like he built a federal indictment on january 6th made for speed, let's get it done. that is very much up in the a
what does that reflect on the part of jack smith? >> first of all, we don't know that they haven't recovered them. it could be they have determined all of those boxes were returned to mar-a-lago or somewhere else, that they essentially follow trump around wherever he went. i had a conversation with someone on your team tonight about our shared recollection that when trump showed up in new york last year for a deposition in a new york attorney general civil fraud case, he was seen outside...
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but on top of that, you also have this argument that some are making. >> jack smith's team announced the 60-day rule and unwritten rule of justice department they're not supposed to take action within 60 dais of an election to avoid influencing it. it's regarded as not pop aretivm and i take that to mean they expect that trump will lose the immunity claim and that they will be able to begin a trial against him after labor day and run that trial through election day if that's how long it takes to try it. so i think that, you know, to the extent that people are looking at what happened today and saying the law fare campaign has failed. i would point out to people that a defendant is required to be in court for every day of a criminal trial, and i think these guys are planning to try him from september to november. neil: that would be very disruptive for donald trump in the middle of a presidential campaign assuming he's the republican nominee and if he's convicted on any of the charges, how that would resinate. the consensus seems to be a conviction changing the game. i'm not so sure a
but on top of that, you also have this argument that some are making. >> jack smith's team announced the 60-day rule and unwritten rule of justice department they're not supposed to take action within 60 dais of an election to avoid influencing it. it's regarded as not pop aretivm and i take that to mean they expect that trump will lose the immunity claim and that they will be able to begin a trial against him after labor day and run that trial through election day if that's how long it...
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Mar 2, 2024
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smith and puts this in july as jack smith has asked for, the florida case, there's nowhere for the dc case to go, but i think what is at the heart of this and trump's team says, well, it shouldn't be about politics, but the trump legal team has less worried about the classified documents case and not necessarily because it's less problematic, but because i think they understand the appearance former white house aides, the former attorney general, the former or the current governor of georgia. all these aids marching in to talk how trump tried to overturn the election is more damaging to his political prospects than even the classified documents. >> all of that. and in a jurisdiction in florida which is much more favorable to him with a much better jury pool in front of a much more trump friendly drag show for all of those reasons, i agree with you. that's what they want. >> jennifer rodgers, elie honig, we'll be watching closely since whale these fun deadlines to wait for. thank you. both for being here on a friday night up next at the white house tonight, president biden made this an
smith and puts this in july as jack smith has asked for, the florida case, there's nowhere for the dc case to go, but i think what is at the heart of this and trump's team says, well, it shouldn't be about politics, but the trump legal team has less worried about the classified documents case and not necessarily because it's less problematic, but because i think they understand the appearance former white house aides, the former attorney general, the former or the current governor of georgia....
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smith the same way. >> i do not have the sufficient information with respect to jack smith east investigation to provide a comment on it. >> if president biden in his testimony to you knew the exact date, january 20th whatever it was, 2009 when he game vice president and the day when he left become vice president january 20th, i guess the first would have been january 20, 2009, el knew the dates right. if he knew the exact date and the instant beau biden died would that have changed your decision not to bring a prosecution? >> sir, i cannot engage in hypotheticals what my decision would have been with different facts. i made a decision based on the facts and circumstances i was presented with and we identified during our investigation. >> it appears to me the minor discrepancies as far as dates after a long period of time was not the basis. it was not the basis for your decision to decline to prosecute. you didn't have the facts. he acted differently than trump. he voluntarily provided the documents and complied with the justice department and didn't try to obstruct justice. those were the re
smith the same way. >> i do not have the sufficient information with respect to jack smith east investigation to provide a comment on it. >> if president biden in his testimony to you knew the exact date, january 20th whatever it was, 2009 when he game vice president and the day when he left become vice president january 20th, i guess the first would have been january 20, 2009, el knew the dates right. if he knew the exact date and the instant beau biden died would that have changed...
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this really does push things back for jack smith. let's say that the president has, is found not to be immune, jack smith, and then go to the trial. but the supreme court, they won't issue a ruling until may or maybe even june. and then that will push the trial judge has said the parties need, you know, as much as three months to prepare for the trial. if that pushes it right into september which is, i mean, talk about a tough decision for merrick garland. are you going let that trial proceed in the middle of a campaign? >> well, to be very clear, department of justice guidelines would say that you would absolutely not allow that trial to continue because they have a very firm rule written around the justice department interfering or using prosecutions or engaging in prosecutions in a a way that can affect the outcome of elections. they've always struck very strongly to that. by the way, ask hunter biden whose own prosecution we now know was delayed multiple times because of the fear that this would somehow interfere with joe biden a
this really does push things back for jack smith. let's say that the president has, is found not to be immune, jack smith, and then go to the trial. but the supreme court, they won't issue a ruling until may or maybe even june. and then that will push the trial judge has said the parties need, you know, as much as three months to prepare for the trial. if that pushes it right into september which is, i mean, talk about a tough decision for merrick garland. are you going let that trial proceed...
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what does that reflect on the part of jack smith? >> we don't know that they haven't recovered them. they may have determined that all of those boxes were returned to mar-a-lago or somewhere else. they followed trump around wherever he went. i had a conversation with someone on your team tonight about our shared recollection that when trump showed up in new york last near for a deposition, he was seen outside trump tower with personal aides carting some of those very same sorts of banker's boxes. look. there is a reference in the indictment to the fact that carlos talavera and others shepherded boxes onto a plane as trump was leaving from florida to head north. it never disclosed however, that ryan butler as trump employee number five was among them, and we don't know for sure what happened to those boxes or what was inside. he mac do you feel confident? in the back of my mind, this is all pure speculation. i should warn everyone at home. it seems that jack smith probably more than anyone else at the department of justice has underst
what does that reflect on the part of jack smith? >> we don't know that they haven't recovered them. they may have determined that all of those boxes were returned to mar-a-lago or somewhere else. they followed trump around wherever he went. i had a conversation with someone on your team tonight about our shared recollection that when trump showed up in new york last near for a deposition, he was seen outside trump tower with personal aides carting some of those very same sorts of...
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what are jack smith's options here? >> well, there is a reason you've never seen anything like it. i don't think bradley and i have either. last week, bradley was trying to come up with the best yiddish phrase for this and i have sort of 2m words for you. michigan, which is what this is, because the choice that was given by judge cannon to the parties is to ask jack smith, so please draft a jury instructions seeming that the earth is flat and the second one is please draft a jury instruction assuming that the earth is square. so the second m word is mandamus. mandamus is the ability -- it is not an appeal. it is for extraordinary actions by a district court that so clearly violate the law that you can appeal it right then and there. it is a very tough standard, but at this point, what she did today is so nutty, and so against appointed bradley has been making, which is that the 11th circuit has actually already decided this issue and what she has proposed is against what the 11th circuit is already reversed her on, so i really think to the extent that you think that she is engaging
what are jack smith's options here? >> well, there is a reason you've never seen anything like it. i don't think bradley and i have either. last week, bradley was trying to come up with the best yiddish phrase for this and i have sort of 2m words for you. michigan, which is what this is, because the choice that was given by judge cannon to the parties is to ask jack smith, so please draft a jury instructions seeming that the earth is flat and the second one is please draft a jury...
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in this instance, both jack smith, for the government, and the former president framed the questions differently, from each other. and it just so happens, that it's itnot unusual, the supreme court framed the question differently than both of those two parties, so as to require briefing and decision on the question that the court itself wants e to decide. now, what is that question? there's been a lot of discussion as to the framing of the question. in my view, a lot of that is a tempest in the teapot. at the end of the day, the court has asked the parties to brief the question that's an issue in the prosecution of the former president. mainly, whether the former president violated the constitution. when he acting, in his official capacity, as then president of the united states, sought to overturn the election in 2020, and obstructed the official proceeding of d the joint sessi of congress to count the electoral votes. that court, of course, can decide that question is narrowly or as broadly as it wishes. but this is a paradigm of a case where the courts will almost certainly decide
in this instance, both jack smith, for the government, and the former president framed the questions differently, from each other. and it just so happens, that it's itnot unusual, the supreme court framed the question differently than both of those two parties, so as to require briefing and decision on the question that the court itself wants e to decide. now, what is that question? there's been a lot of discussion as to the framing of the question. in my view, a lot of that is a tempest in the...
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. >> a key hearing in jack smith's classified documents case against trump is set for this thursday. meanwhile, there's also news today on trump's first criminal trial, the hush money case in new york. a trump filing today saying he may blame his lawyers for the criminal chemo, but he'll try to do that without losing the attorney-client privilege. joining me now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney and msnbc analyst and co-host of the hashtag sisters in law podcast and co-host of the strict scrutiny podcast. two of the very best getting us started this evening. joyce, i'd like to begin with you. for today in the hur hearing, no new evidence was heard. no perry mason moments happened. did anything occur in this hearing to change the fact there's been only one president, former president trump, that is facing criminal charges for mishandling classified documents? >> you know, katie, this hearing underlined the distinction between donald trump and joe biden for anyone who's listening. it's very clear when you read hur's report and when you hear hur repeat his report out loud at the requ
. >> a key hearing in jack smith's classified documents case against trump is set for this thursday. meanwhile, there's also news today on trump's first criminal trial, the hush money case in new york. a trump filing today saying he may blame his lawyers for the criminal chemo, but he'll try to do that without losing the attorney-client privilege. joining me now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney and msnbc analyst and co-host of the hashtag sisters in law podcast and co-host of the...
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for jack smith to get her recused from the case, it takes a high burden. you have to show that she's biassed and it's rare for an appellant court to remove a judge from the case, but every time you see the rulings and delays that she builds into the case, you have to believe she's getting closer to that line. >> let's go to another case in georgia. trump's legal team started to maneuvering after fani willis was kept on the case. what are they trying to do there? >> donald trump wants to delay that case, and it's going to be delayed past the election anyways. he thinks maybe there's a chance to get her disqualified and that would kill the case and it would get reassigned to the same prosecutor that may not share the same zeal as fani willis. it's something called an interlock tory appeal, and it means you could take the appeal right away instead of waiting until the trial is over. donald trump likes to appeal everything possible, because the longer he can delay things the better his chances of never being put on trial in any of these matters. >> garrett, me
for jack smith to get her recused from the case, it takes a high burden. you have to show that she's biassed and it's rare for an appellant court to remove a judge from the case, but every time you see the rulings and delays that she builds into the case, you have to believe she's getting closer to that line. >> let's go to another case in georgia. trump's legal team started to maneuvering after fani willis was kept on the case. what are they trying to do there? >> donald trump...
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i want to read for you what the new york times is reporting about jack smith. she asked about when smith was going to present the prosecution list. the new york times wrote this -- smith in particular seems shocked by the question and sat up stiff lee in the well of the courtroom, his eyes gone wide in apparent incredulity. there has been a lot of talk specifically in judge aileen cannon's courtroom about -- and other pretrial motions as well in which they talk about the potential harassment of prosecution witnesses. i am wondering if you feel like that is what was playing into this report from the new york times about jack smith's incredulity. >> it sounds like so. they have already requested that some names be withheld from the fence until absolutely necessary. we know that donald trump just has a history of attacking witnesses and prosecutors and judges and juries, so that could be one reason. also, we know that everyone was waiting for a trial date to be announced and one was not at all. there's really no clarity when that case will start. i know there's a
i want to read for you what the new york times is reporting about jack smith. she asked about when smith was going to present the prosecution list. the new york times wrote this -- smith in particular seems shocked by the question and sat up stiff lee in the well of the courtroom, his eyes gone wide in apparent incredulity. there has been a lot of talk specifically in judge aileen cannon's courtroom about -- and other pretrial motions as well in which they talk about the potential harassment of...
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>> no. >> was anybody interviewing with jack smith or his work? >> i do not have the basis to answer that question. >> your summation, which we treat as thoughtful and unpolitical, we should treat decisions by jack smith the same way to your knowledge? >> i do not have sufficient information with regard to jack smith see investigation to provide any comment on it. >> let me ask you this, if president biden in his testimony to you, knew the exact date, whatever date it was when he came vice president, and when he left as vice president, and it would be january 20th -- he knew the dates exactly right, and if he knew the exact date and the instant that his son died, would not have changed your decision to bring about prosecution? >> i cannot engage in hypotheticals, and what i did was make a decision on the facts and circumstances i was presented with. >> it appears to me, and i think it would appear to the american public, that these minor discrepancies as far as dates after a long period of time was not the basis, it was not the basis of your decis
>> no. >> was anybody interviewing with jack smith or his work? >> i do not have the basis to answer that question. >> your summation, which we treat as thoughtful and unpolitical, we should treat decisions by jack smith the same way to your knowledge? >> i do not have sufficient information with regard to jack smith see investigation to provide any comment on it. >> let me ask you this, if president biden in his testimony to you, knew the exact date,...
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donald trump would be able to end both federal prosecutions against him by special prosecutor jack smith, who would be instantly fired by donald trump, and the two state prosecutions against him in new york and georgia would be forced into at least a four year delay until donald trump is no longer president. if donald trump wins, then justice loses. if donald trump wins, human decency loses. if donald trump wins, then all is lost. and as of tonight, most american voters know that. joe biden is going to win millions more votes than donald trump, but this is the country where you can come in second with the voters and still become president. still win. thanks to the perversion of democracy the founders called the electoral college. and as of tonight, not enough people in a handful of so- called battleground states who will decide this election understand the stakes of this election. not enough people in those few states yet understand what they will lose if donald trump wins. and so, we begin tonight with what is now the most important of those stories that we will be covering this year, b
donald trump would be able to end both federal prosecutions against him by special prosecutor jack smith, who would be instantly fired by donald trump, and the two state prosecutions against him in new york and georgia would be forced into at least a four year delay until donald trump is no longer president. if donald trump wins, then justice loses. if donald trump wins, human decency loses. if donald trump wins, then all is lost. and as of tonight, most american voters know that. joe biden is...
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>> i don't think jack smith wants to remove her. i think you would rather not do that because it is an extreme measure. she did get adverse rulings including from trump appointees twice. that was in the preindictment phase of this case when it was a civil case brought by trump. a totally bizarre kind of situation. she would in figure of him -- favor of him in a really wacky way. it's sort of like a three strikes and you're out kind of situation. again, i don't think jack smith wants to do that. they would have to reassign. they would have to find another judge. i think he is keeping his fingers crossed. i think we are also aware of the possibility that judge cannon could go rogue again. >> then there is the whole question of what she can do to the rest of the calendar. let's start this conversation with an opinion you hold that i think is a hard one for people who seek accountability for donald trump to hear. talk to me about your view are the chances that the federal election interference case goes to trial before november. >> i th
>> i don't think jack smith wants to remove her. i think you would rather not do that because it is an extreme measure. she did get adverse rulings including from trump appointees twice. that was in the preindictment phase of this case when it was a civil case brought by trump. a totally bizarre kind of situation. she would in figure of him -- favor of him in a really wacky way. it's sort of like a three strikes and you're out kind of situation. again, i don't think jack smith wants to do...
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so we've got donald trump, jack smith, judge, aileen cannon altogether what was it like in there >> all in the room? judge, aileen cannon had a lot of media things to walk through. she didn't ask that many questions for a hearing that had so many details that they needed to deal with and even trumping in the room in the same place as jack smith. >> it was >> a little bit more a relaxed than in past hearings where i've sat in the courtroom and watched each of these people look at each other or glance at each other, trump appeared to be a lot more relaxing facts than in past hearings. he didn't whisper much with his attorneys as he's done previously. he instead sat there, he listened pretty passively for most of the hearing is the arguments were being made but dana at a couple of points, there were heated arguments being made, especially whenever donald trump's defense lawyer, todd blanche put out on the table what is really the thing that nobody had had wanted to talk about in this case up to that point this morning, and that was this idea. of the election. should this case go to trial b
so we've got donald trump, jack smith, judge, aileen cannon altogether what was it like in there >> all in the room? judge, aileen cannon had a lot of media things to walk through. she didn't ask that many questions for a hearing that had so many details that they needed to deal with and even trumping in the room in the same place as jack smith. >> it was >> a little bit more a relaxed than in past hearings where i've sat in the courtroom and watched each of these people look...
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jack smith has argued this is a matter of national importance, we want votes to know before they go to the polls. on the other side, there are millions of pages in discovery, why speed if up this trial because to speed if it up would also potentially appear if political. howard: yeah. either way, you get a lot of -- >> kind of a rorschach test. howard: yes. >> depending on where you are is how you view this case. howard: and special counsel jack smith knowing the trial was already being delayed, for how long we don't know, he's also handling the classified documents case. expected to take about six weeks. he wants to start in july, trump says august. is this a little like college basketball before the shot clock where one team wants the hurry-up offense and the other is slow-walking everything? >> and the funny thing is the idea of a speedy trial in our legal system is generally to the benefit of a defendant. they have the right to push and say, come on, my justice is being delayed. it's not that it goes to the prosecutorial side which is how it feels in this case. there's no denying t
jack smith has argued this is a matter of national importance, we want votes to know before they go to the polls. on the other side, there are millions of pages in discovery, why speed if up this trial because to speed if it up would also potentially appear if political. howard: yeah. either way, you get a lot of -- >> kind of a rorschach test. howard: yes. >> depending on where you are is how you view this case. howard: and special counsel jack smith knowing the trial was already...
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of course, special counsel jack smith says these are ridiculous notions not supported in case law, but they're spending hours arguing a case, in a case where one of donald trump's top strategies is to delay and hope the case doesn't get to trial before the election. today is another day that makes it less likely to happen. >> paul, let me actually read what in a filing is what jack smith had to saying or his team had to say in response to the second part. it says the pra does not exempt trump from the criminal laws, entitle him to unilaterally declare highly classified records as personal records, yet alone allow him to obstruct a federal investigation with impunity. are you one of those legal experts that thinking it's at least borderline frivolous? >> i wouldn't say that. it's downright frivolous. he isn't charged with violating the presidential reports act. that's not the problem. he's charged with violating the espionage act and obstruction of justice. what the presidential records act said is many documents used by the president for the purpose of carrying out his official respons
of course, special counsel jack smith says these are ridiculous notions not supported in case law, but they're spending hours arguing a case, in a case where one of donald trump's top strategies is to delay and hope the case doesn't get to trial before the election. today is another day that makes it less likely to happen. >> paul, let me actually read what in a filing is what jack smith had to saying or his team had to say in response to the second part. it says the pra does not exempt...
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special counsel jack smith wants the trial to start in july. while trump's attorneys say the earliest the trials should start is august, although they would prefer never. the ultimate decision here has the potential to create chaos on trump's legal calendar. the later she schedules her trial, the more likely she is to block any january 6 election interference trial from going to trial before the election. and now we have learned that next thursday, judge cannon will hear arguments by team trump to dismiss the documents case altogether. david latt joins me now, a columnist at bloomberg law and the host of the original jurisdiction podcast. it's great to see you. welcome to the program. >> thanks for having me, alex. >> so how do you read the tea leafs on the fact that judge cannon is scheduling a hearing on a motion to dismiss before she has set a trial date? is that not a great sign for people who are hoping to see this trial come to fruition? >> well, she has a lot of work to get through. because the trump team has basically filed a kitchen si
special counsel jack smith wants the trial to start in july. while trump's attorneys say the earliest the trials should start is august, although they would prefer never. the ultimate decision here has the potential to create chaos on trump's legal calendar. the later she schedules her trial, the more likely she is to block any january 6 election interference trial from going to trial before the election. and now we have learned that next thursday, judge cannon will hear arguments by team trump...
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but i will urge you to bring it up later when i can deny it in a way jack smith can't appeal it. let me read one thing from the order because this is not a jury instruction. this is a command to the jury that you may not convict. a president has sole authority under the presidential records act to categorize records as personal. neither a court nor a your is permitted to make or review such a categorization decision. and outgoing president's decision to exclude what he considers to be personal records from the presidential records transmitted to the national archives. constitutes a president's categorization of those records as personal. that is not a jury instruction. that is a command to the jury that you may not convict donald trump because of what i have just instructed you. this is the kind of thing that i suggest further supports a motion to recuse because her impartiality might reasonably be questioned and that is the federal standard for when a judge shall remove themselves from the case. >> quickly because we are out of time, glen. but from what you have read, to me, tha
but i will urge you to bring it up later when i can deny it in a way jack smith can't appeal it. let me read one thing from the order because this is not a jury instruction. this is a command to the jury that you may not convict. a president has sole authority under the presidential records act to categorize records as personal. neither a court nor a your is permitted to make or review such a categorization decision. and outgoing president's decision to exclude what he considers to be personal...
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after jack smith smiled proposed child date in july 8th. donald trump's lawyers did not ask for a date after the presidential election. they didn't ask for a date next year. they asked for a trial date, just four weeks later on august 12th. after four weeks requested by jack smith donald trump's favor, judge aileen mercedes, can he appointed to her federal judgeship will decide that trial date. , and republicans were very disappointed today and hunter biden's closed-door testimony under oath to a republican- controlled house committee. because, apparently, his testimony was solid and clear about his father not being involved in his business. and because of jones and the transcript that was released tonight, like. this mr. gaetz, were you on drugs when you were on the board. the witness, mr. gaetz, look me in the eye you really think that's appropriate to ask me? mr., gates absolutely, the witness -- of all the people sitting around this table, do you think that's appropriate to ask me? >> congressman gaetz, of course, of all the people sitt
after jack smith smiled proposed child date in july 8th. donald trump's lawyers did not ask for a date after the presidential election. they didn't ask for a date next year. they asked for a trial date, just four weeks later on august 12th. after four weeks requested by jack smith donald trump's favor, judge aileen mercedes, can he appointed to her federal judgeship will decide that trial date. , and republicans were very disappointed today and hunter biden's closed-door testimony under oath to...
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you're exactly right because he told us when jack smith goes after president trump, joe biden says, how could this happen? what data was in those documents that could compromise sources and methods? it's irresponsible so joe biden knew the role rules, you know, he knew the rules and joe biden told us he knew the rules. so mr. her, why did he break them? >> the conclusion as to exactly why the president did what he did is not one that we explicitly address in the report the report explains my decision to the attorney general that no criminal charges were warranted in this matter. >> i think you did tell us. i think he told us mr. page to 31. you said this president biden had strong motivations. that's a key word. we're getting a motive now, president biden had strong motivations to ignore the proper procedures for safeguarding the classified information in his notebooks. why did he have strong motivations? because you next word, because he decided months before leaving office to write a book, to write a book that was his motive. he knew the rules are broken because he was writing a book.
you're exactly right because he told us when jack smith goes after president trump, joe biden says, how could this happen? what data was in those documents that could compromise sources and methods? it's irresponsible so joe biden knew the role rules, you know, he knew the rules and joe biden told us he knew the rules. so mr. her, why did he break them? >> the conclusion as to exactly why the president did what he did is not one that we explicitly address in the report the report explains...
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do you think jack smith is going to do it? when she says something like i want you to consider this, does she have to? >> i think he has to comply with the order. he will get an order back from the court about jury instructions. very unusual this early in the case. there is not even a trial date set. then he will have an appealable order. >> is this putting the cart in front of the horse? there is no trial date set yet. >> this is completely putting the cart for the horse. there is no trial date yet. the judge is signaling, as she has signal from the get-go she does not believe in the case and does not believe it is warranted. she is stacking the deck in favor of the defendant. >> is there anything jack smith can do to get this moving along? >> he has successfully appealed prior orders to the appellate court and the appellate court has on multiple occasions reversed this judge. i would expect if there is an order on these jury instructions, as she is already signaling he will go right back to the appellate court. >> let's move
do you think jack smith is going to do it? when she says something like i want you to consider this, does she have to? >> i think he has to comply with the order. he will get an order back from the court about jury instructions. very unusual this early in the case. there is not even a trial date set. then he will have an appealable order. >> is this putting the cart in front of the horse? there is no trial date set yet. >> this is completely putting the cart for the horse....
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right as a defendant in that frivolous case being brought by jack smith frequency brings the case in washington d.c. violates the department of justice requirements he supposed to release into the jurisdiction where the events allegedly occurred because the grand jury he wants made up of a population of people in d.c. who hate donald trump. then he transfers the case to a grand jury in florida but like a sus losing this guy is. transfers it to a grand jury and a want of the things the judges said is one of the issues has to be equal protection and equal treatment. you look at these other cases can anybody name anybody else's been a president, a vice president, or secretary of state or cabinet officer who has been charged under the espionage act when in fact they have removed classified information? that media and the phony legal analysts and scholars are all there yelling that proves she's in the tank doesn't prove she's not in the tank she's trying to get to the bottom of it? >> absolutely. you and i been lawyers for long time. we know it's not being analyzed. they're not being anal
right as a defendant in that frivolous case being brought by jack smith frequency brings the case in washington d.c. violates the department of justice requirements he supposed to release into the jurisdiction where the events allegedly occurred because the grand jury he wants made up of a population of people in d.c. who hate donald trump. then he transfers the case to a grand jury in florida but like a sus losing this guy is. transfers it to a grand jury and a want of the things the judges...
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smith the same way. >> i really do not have the sufficient information with respect to jack smith's investigation to provide any comment on it. >> let me ask you this. president biden in his testimony to you knew the exact date january 20 or whatever it was, became vice president. he left january the 20th. 2009 and then january 2017. he knew the state exactly right. if you knew the exact date in an instant that biden died, with that of changed your decision not to bring a prosecution? >> i cannot engage in hypotheticals about might've been with different facts. what i did was make a decision on the facts and circumstances that i was presented with and we did identify. >> it appears to me and the american public that these minor discrepancies, as far as dates after a long period of time was not the basis. it was not the basis for decision, it was the fact that you didn't have the facts. those with a reason you didn't prosecute, not just because he missed a few dates. >> congressman, my reasons for my declaration decision are set out in my report and i stand by the word to my report,
smith the same way. >> i really do not have the sufficient information with respect to jack smith's investigation to provide any comment on it. >> let me ask you this. president biden in his testimony to you knew the exact date january 20 or whatever it was, became vice president. he left january the 20th. 2009 and then january 2017. he knew the state exactly right. if you knew the exact date in an instant that biden died, with that of changed your decision not to bring a...
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so the indictment brought by jack smith. the very terms of your analysis, jack smith's indictment actually counseled against and was counted against bringing charges in this case. is that correct? >> i'm sorry, congressman. i don't follow your drift there. >> you said there is already deterrence, there is a prosecution out there in a prior case related to classified documents so we don't need to bring another case to establish value. that was the essence of your analysis, correct? >> congressman, what i'll say is that i will stand by the way and specific words in which i characterize my assessment of deterrence on page 254 and 255. >> my time is out, per verse implication here, by the terms of your analysis made it less likely that the president would face charges by jack smith bringing an indictment. thank you, i yield back. >> mr. chairman, unanimous consent request. i ask unanimous consent to enter into the record two documents, first the superceding indictment against donald trump in the southern district of florida wher
so the indictment brought by jack smith. the very terms of your analysis, jack smith's indictment actually counseled against and was counted against bringing charges in this case. is that correct? >> i'm sorry, congressman. i don't follow your drift there. >> you said there is already deterrence, there is a prosecution out there in a prior case related to classified documents so we don't need to bring another case to establish value. that was the essence of your analysis, correct?...
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smith the same way. >> i really do not have the sufficient information with respect to jack smith's investigation to provide any comment on it. >> let me ask you this. president biden in his testimony to you knew the exact date january 20 or whatever it was, became vice president. he left january the 20th. 2009 and january 2017. he knew the state exactly right. if you knew the exact date in an instant that biden died, with that of changed your decision not to bring a prosecution? >> i cannot engage in hypotheticals about might've been with different facts. what i did was make a decision on the facts and circumstances that i was presented with and we did identify. >> it appears to me and the american public that these minor discrepancies, as far as dates after a long period of time was not the basis. it was not the basis for decision, it was the fact that you didn't have the facts. those with a reason you didn't prosecute, not just because he missed a few dates. my reasons my declaration decision are set out in my report and i stand by the word to my report, sir. >> thinking. i am en
smith the same way. >> i really do not have the sufficient information with respect to jack smith's investigation to provide any comment on it. >> let me ask you this. president biden in his testimony to you knew the exact date january 20 or whatever it was, became vice president. he left january the 20th. 2009 and january 2017. he knew the state exactly right. if you knew the exact date in an instant that biden died, with that of changed your decision not to bring a prosecution?...
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so that one prosecution, of course, is the indictment brought by jack smith. so by the very terms of your analysis, jack smith's indictment actually counseled against, counted against inthat correct? >> i'm sorry, congressman, i don't follow your draft. >> you said that there's already deterrence because there's this prosecution out there in a prior case related to classified documents. so we don't need to bring another case to establish value. that was the essence of your analysis, correct? >> congressman, what i'll say is that i will stand by the, the way and the specific words in which i characterized my assessment of deterrence value of a case under the principle of federal prosecution threport >> thank you but my up, but i'll just add the perverse implication here is that the administration, by the very terms of your analysis, actually made it less likely that the president would face charges by jack smith bringing an indiment. thank you. i yelled back. >> mr. chairman, i have a unanimous consent request. thank you. i ask unanimous consent to enter into t
so that one prosecution, of course, is the indictment brought by jack smith. so by the very terms of your analysis, jack smith's indictment actually counseled against, counted against inthat correct? >> i'm sorry, congressman, i don't follow your draft. >> you said that there's already deterrence because there's this prosecution out there in a prior case related to classified documents. so we don't need to bring another case to establish value. that was the essence of your analysis,...