it owns ben & jerry's and breyers. some of the reason is that it's become a slow growth business. i mean, unilever's ice cream saleses are only up about 2% last year, and it's expensive to operate given all the -- it has to be kept frozen. and also to semipick effect which is affecting a lot of food companies. people worry about ice cream sales being negative live a-- negatively affected by this. it also shows some of the distortions by the esg movement. ice cream doesn't score well payoff the carbon footprint of ice cream and, therefore, if unilever gets out of the business, they get higher scores even though the business is going to be around and just owned by someone else. jack: so will you buy a punoff ice cream business? >> it's actually a good business just like kellogg, the cereal company has done very well since its spin-off from the company. jack: and you can't blame this on ben & jerry's, nestle is also getting out. >> yeah, about five years ago they sold haagen dazs into a joint venture, so t not something that big corporations want to be in anymore despite the populari