and the only thing that's bizarre is that in many of these departments over half the kids aren't u.s. citizens, so the benefit of the education accrues to other countries rather -- >> they go home. >> yeah. well, they're not allowed to stay. they want to stay, and people have open jobs for them, but they don't get to stay. so that's a bit weird. but that sector is kind of a model, was the competition -- because the competition for research grants, you know, the sense of new ideas is very strong this. outside of that, no, we have a huge problem. you know, on average if you take -- thousands of people going to class 12 hours a week, and they're spending 10 hours a week on their, on their studies. and, you know, it's something that's just gone down over time. and even so they're not completing at nearly the rate that we'd like to see. so this engine is very unexamined, and i do think if we come up with metrics, people will compete. they want to do the right thing. but the exemplars aren't -- until you get the measures, you don't find the exemplars, and people don't compete to match up to