i'm katy tur. the supreme court heard its third abortion case in two

years, the second since it overturned roe v. wade. this appears to have divided the court over ideological and gender lines. it is a case about the near total ban on abortions in idaho. the doj sued the state saying the ban violated federal law that makes it mandatory for hospitals to provide emergency medical care. arguing in some cases abortions are just that, they're emergency medical care. and that the legal standard of quote, good faith medical judgment has proven to be too vague. that lack of a clear standard is exactly what both justice sonia sotomayor and amy coney barrett tried to wrestle out of the attorney representing idaho today. listen. >> this particular patient had to deliver her baby. the baby died. she had a hysterectomy, and she can no longer have children. all right. you're telling me the doctor couldn't have done the abortion earlier? >> again, it goes back to whether a doctor can in good

faith medical judgment -- >> that's a lot for the doctor to risk. >> it is very case by case. >> that's the problem. >> i'm kind of shocked, actually, because i thought your own expert had said below that these kinds of cases were covered, and you're now saying they're not? >> no, i'm not saying that. that's just my point, your honor. >> you're hedging. justice sotomayor is asking whether this would be covered or not, and it's my understanding that the legislature's witnesses said those would be covered. >> those doctors said if they were exercising medical judgment they could in good faith determine that life saving care was necessary, and that's my point is it's a subjective. >> some doctors might reach a contrary conclusion is what justice sotomayor is asking you. if they reach the conclusion that the legislature's doctors did, would they be prosecuted under idaho law? >> no. no. if they reached the conclusion that the dr. reynolds, dr. white

did, that these were life saving -- >> what if the prosecutor thought differently. what if the prosecutor thought i don't think any good faith doctor could draw that conclusion, i'm going to put on my expert. >> and that, is the nature of prosecutorial skepticism. >> you can hear that. the skepticism wasn't shared by the men on the court, including justice alito, who authored the decision in overturning roe in the first place. >> i would think that the concept of good faith medical judgment must take into account some objective standards. but it would leave a certain amount of leeway for an individual doctor. that was how i interpreted what the state supreme court said. now, you have been presented here today with very quick summaries of cases and asked to

provide a snap judgment about what would be appropriate in those particular cases. and honestly, i think you've hardly been given an opportunity to answer some of the hypotheticals, but would you agree with me that if a medical doctor who is an expert in this field were asked bang, bang, bang, what would you do in these particular circumstances which i am now going to enumerate, the doctor would say, this is not how i practice medicine. i need to know a lot more about the individual case. would you agree with that? >> absolutely. >> you could hear it there as well. joining us now from outside of the supreme court, nbc news washington correspondent, yamiche alcindor. slate senior editor and legal correspondent, and msnbc correspondent, dolly lit wick, and author of "dollars for life the antiabortion movement and the fall of the republican establishment," mary ziegler. dolly, you have been covering the court for years. i want to start with you on

this. what was your sense of where this might be going? >> i can't tell you where it's going, katy. it's hard to tell how some of the really crucial justices, particularly john roberts and brett kavanaugh, where they landed today. i can tell you, i'm trying to think of a more gendered argument. i can't in my entire life think of an argument in which every single woman, including amy coney barrett, including the solicitor general elizabeth prelogger was talking about preeclampsia, was talking about ectopic pregnant, blood, what it is to be helicoptered out of the states and you had every single male justice, and as you heard the attorney for the state of ohio, talking about the hyde amendment, talking about the spending clause, talking about these unbelievably in some cases not briefed legal questions so

they wouldn't have to talk about women's health. it was quite staggering the divide between what one-half of the court was talking about today and the other was like nothing i have ever witnessed, including in dobbs. >> it was so remarkable listening to justice sotomayor and justice amy coney barrett go back and forth with the attorney for idaho there talking about cases where the doctor's judgment might not be enough, and how vague the standard is, and i found that to be just really illuminating about at least where the women on the court stand. yamiche, what was it like outside of the court today? there's always so much protesting going on during these big cases. what did you see today? >> reporter: there was a lot of protests, much more than usual here at the supreme court because of course this is a significant abortion case. so i talked to a number of people on both sides of the issue. the crowd seemed to be in favor of abortion rights. i talked to one woman, she's

worried, in an emergency situation she's going to have her life put in danger, not just idaho but a number of states that have trigger laws. i talked to a doctor from idaho who said there's a chilling effect going on. doctors are worried about going to jail. in the middle of emergency rooms wanting to treat a woman who's not on death's door but close to it, maybe developing an infection, who maybe even reproductive organs might be failing. these doctors are scared. they don't want to be thrown in jail by prosecutors much like what amy coe any barrett was talking about, the idea that a prosecutor could disagree of a medical judgment by a doctor. i talked to people who are opponents of abortion access at the court today, and they were basically saying that idaho's law, they feel it's sufficient enough to help with women. katy. >> yamiche, thank you very much. in listening to the arguments, mary, one of the arguments made was a question about what exactly it means to have a woman's life in danger,

and whether it really means to be on death's door or if it would be -- if they were to lose an organ, reproductive organs or something else in the course of losing the baby and getting to the point where a medically approved abortion can be done. a safe one, i guess, in terms of the legal standard in the state of idaho, and it was striking that the lawyer for idaho said that losing an organ wouldn't be covered? >> yeah, i mean that's accurate in terms of what a lot of conservative lawmakers think. right? one of the themes you heard, i think, throughout the questioning was both mr. turner representing idaho and some of the conservative justices suggesting that health exceptions were unworkable because they would somehow open the door to elective abortions. they would open the door to abortions in cases of mental health, so i think part of what you were seeing essentially was the attorney for the idaho saying, you know, yes, losing an organ is less bad than opening

the door to abortions for any reason. and that was the judgment the state of idaho made and not a surprising one given what the anti-abortion movement argues. >> let me ask you this, dahlia, because we're talking about a standard, and this has been the case with all of these examples that we've seen throughout the country of women saying they need an abortion, and doctors say i'm not quite sure if this is the right moment, and saying how they have to ask not their medical judgment or medical panel in the building, they're talking to their lawyers, here's what one of the letters from several medical associations submitted to the court today. they said, when is it certain she will die but for medical intervention. how many blood units does she have to lose, one, two, five? how fast does she have to be bleeding, soaking through two pads an hour, three? how low does her blood pressure need to be, 90 over 60, 80 over 50. this is the american college of emergency physicians and american medical association,

all of them writing to the supreme court looking for a standard. what is striking here is these are medical professionals asking a bunch of lawyers what the medical standard needs to be? >> it's funny, in that clip you played earlier, katy, where justice alito was suggesting that if the attorney from idaho had a little more time with those medical scenarios he could have answered them better as though maybe judges and lawyers are really really good at emergency medicine. i mean, that's exactly the way we got into trouble here. these are emergency room physicians, which has been the law since 1986. they know what stabilizing care looks like. it's not a question of looking over your shoulder to see is the prosecutor on one hand going to take away your medical license or put you in jail for two years or on the other hand are you going to get sued for delaying care, which happens all the

time. they're in an intolerable position when lawyers on both sides are making determinations about how you give stabilizing care in the emergency room. this is the thing they know how to do. so the real kind of tragedy here is that we have a basic unified standard of care around the country and idaho and six other states are creating a carveout for abortion, and all it's doing is having a bunch of lawyers substitute their judgment, not in the moment, as you say, but after the fact to decide if a doctor should go to jail, and this is why doctors are fleeing idaho. >> and that's why doctors are just too scared. they don't want to risk their medical license. they don't want to risk their freedom. they could be put in jail as you mentioned, and it's all on the basis of not what, you know, medical professionals are saying, but what prosecutors decide. mary, let me ask you this, if the supreme court rules in favor of idaho, what does that mean? >> well, it depends. i think one of the other kind of

questions that i didn't know how to answer listening to this argument was how idaho would win, how big idaho would win. what would the rational be, but one thing that will be clear is that even more patients who are pregnant, facing medical emergencies will get turned away from receiving emergency treatment, and we know this is true not just for patients seeking abortion but patients who are pregnant, really facing any medical emergency. the associated press reported just last week on a number of emergency departments that were turning away pregnant patients experiencing all kinds of medical emergencies because they were afraid that would raise questions related to abortion. that's at a time when in theory this question is unsettled. that's one thing that seems clear. >> i think what's striking, it feels like there's this perception that getting pregnant and having a baby is easy and that it's no big deal. women do it every day, it's not

that complicated. it's not that dangerous. but when in reality, if you've had a kid and you've been pregnant, you know that it is very scary and can be very dangerous, up until the moment you give birth and then the moments afterwards. i mean, it is not as routine -- i mean, it's routine because it's done all the time, but it's not necessarily just a straightforward thing. >> it's not. and i think one of the reasons that we heard what we heard from the women justices today and the solicitor general is because, you know, i talked to an er doctor last week from my podcast who said 1 in 5 of the cases she sees in her er is miscarriage or pregnancy related. this happens all the time. sometimes people don't know they're pregnant, but this is a huge part of emergency medicine, and sometimes, you know, to hear the justices, some of the male justices talk about the spending clause or talk about states rights as though this is sort of like an interesting intellectual

puzzle and a constitutional theoretical problems, they have been watching too many hallmark movies where babies pop out, pink and warm and in a little hat. the problem with the ivf ruling, we have a cartoonish sense of how pregnancy and labor and delivery work, and that's just not the reality on the ground in any emergency room in any ob/gyn office. >> i got to tell you, until i got pregnant, i don't think i fully understood what it was like and how scary it could be, and all the complications that were out there and what giving birth would be like. i mean, it's just a lot more complicated. it is a lot more dangerous than we are led to believe culturally speaking in this country. it does many times, in many cases, when we watch it on tv or in a movie, look like a hallmark movie as you were saying, dahlia. mary ziegler, dahlia lithwick,

thank you very much for joining us. lawmakers are voting again on whether to repeal the civil war era abortion ban. we are going to go live to arizona with the state senator next to get an update. plus, in less than 24 hours, the supreme court will hear oral arguments on donald trump's claims of absolute immunity. what will the justices ask and what will that tell us about which way the court will lean on the issue of january 6th? also, protests at universities across the country over the war between israel and hamas. we'll take you to one of them. don't go anywhere. don't go anyw. oh, yeah, man. take it from your inner child. what you really need in life is some freakin' torque. what? the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover. hello, ghostbusters. it's doug. we help people customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. we got a bit of a situation. [ metal groans]

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ask your doctor or pharmacist about the pfizer vaccine for pneumococcal pneumonia. as we just discussed, idaho's abortion ban was in front of the supreme court this morning, and arizona's abortion ban is back in front of the state legislature, where, as we speak, democrats are trying for the third time to repeal the civil war era abortion law. joining us now, arizona state senator, ava birch. the senator had an abortion earlier this year after learning her pregnancy was not viable. thank you very much for being here. and i'm so sorry you had to go through that. let's talk about what you're seeing today in arizona and what's happening in the legislature. do you expect this third time to be different? >> well, what i can tell you is that we just had a vote over on the house side, just within

minutes that vote wrapped where the clean repeal did pass by a vote of 32-28. >> wow. >> there were three republican lawmakers that were joined on side with the democrats to get that bill through. which means that now one week from today when we come back it business, we should have the opportunity to vote for that clean repeal on the senate side and are hoping that we will still have the two republicans who voted with us last week to put the clean repeal through. so there is an opportunity for that now. what i can say about it is that there were 5 out of 47 republicans who were willing to vote for that clean repeal, and in the vote explanations from the republican caucus, it was made clear by rep parker on the house side that the intention of the republican caucus at large in arizona is for the 1864 ban

to stand. and that is their value, that that is their hope, and they are going to continue to fight against the repeal as long as we continue to press forward. >> that is really interesting because we were talking about this last week. it did not pass last week. even more republicans voted it down. and tell me if i'm wrong about this, but what does it say to you that at least three of them, five total have now decided to repeal this. i know you're talking about 47 who still say, yes, they want this ban. enough to get it through the house? >> well, i think that what it says is that there is a lot of pressure on the republicans right now, and that the activity of our constituents, people in arizona, people around the country, the calls, the public declarations and protests that have been happening are at least to some degree being heard. the people of arizona are calling for this loud and clear. there's no question that if

there were to go to a vote with the people of arizona right now, it would pass by an overwhelming margin, and so some of that pressure must be being felt to some capacity. i think there is some concern, and it was discussed today over on the house side from republicans that they are going to lose majority if they continue to push this issue. and so i think there are some competing priorities, but at least for some members, it is turning around. >> so just to remind everybody, the entire legislature is up for reelection in november, so everybody's political future is on the line here. we're trying to match what you told us. do you know if the vote is closed, if this is the final vote. >> this is the final vote from the house side, yes. we still have our clean repeal over on the senate side that we are supposed to vote on to third read next week. there will be a substitute motion to bring the bill to the

house instead in place of what we have here. that way the bill from the senate doesn't have to go to the house. it's procedural but we intend to have the bill to vote on the senate side. we are hoping and trying to be optimistic that it will go through. >> breaking news movement again, the arizona house passing the repeal. the passing repeal of this 1864 abortion ban. as you said, five republicans voted in favor to repeal it. that's at least a couple more from last week when it did not pass the house. and politics are at stake here. their political future, each one of these representatives, these state legislatures futures are up in november. what does it say to you that kari lake, who's running for senate in arizona was initially for this 1864 ban. then when it happened she said she was against it. and now she's saying she's for

it. what does that say to you about the politics of this issue in arizona? >> i think it shows that the republican caucus and the republican messaging from legislatures up to people who are running for larger offices is very very fractured. they cannot agree on what the right thing to do is. and they are receiving heavy pressure on both sides of this issue. they're -- their donors and base voters are pushing aggressively for them to be supportive of a complete ban, and no less restrictive ban will do. they have made that clear. it is this ban from this law in the 1800s that they want, and then they have an overwhelming number of the voters in arizona at large across political party lines that are saying that this ban is awful. and people all across the country are very concerned. they don't want bans like this in their own states, they are being influenced heavily on this side of the issue, and i think the flip-flopping we're seeing

is they lack courage of conviction. you will notice this is not something happening from democrats in arizona. our messaging is strong. it is united. we know this is the right thing to do. this is what's being asked of us. we have a job to do here, and people expect us to do the work of the people, and not the work of special interest groups and donors. >> senator ava burch, state senator from arizona, thank you for being here, i appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. what speaker johnson is doing in new york, and are republicans in congress breaking away from donald trump? what senate minority leader mitch mcconnell said about finally passing the foreign aid bill. oh, yeah, man. take it from your inner child. what you really need in life is some freakin' torque. what? the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover.

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like my dad and me, new ways of catching up on their favorite sport. campus at the university of texas at austin right now. here they are. trying to disburse the pro-palestinian protesters who

walked out of class today. students are joining students across the country, demanding schools divest from companies connected to israel. columbia university in new york has been a major flash point. the nypd arrested more than 100 people two nights ago, and classes have all been moved online after protesters continued to disrupt campus life. now speaker mike johnson is visiting jewish students at the school, and in a moment he's expected to tell reporters he's calling on columbia's president to resign. joining us from columbia university, is msnbc correspondent, trymaine lee. what are you seeing there today? it looks kind of quiet behind you. >> reporter: as you know, typically with these kinds of situations, during the day it's kind of cool and during the night things heat up. we saw that last night as tensions on campus continued to boil over just days after a hundred protesters were indeed arrested. and now we're seeing a couple of things happening on campus today.

as you mentioned, house speaker mike johnson is on campus today to call for accountability and call for the resignation of columbia university's president. he's on stand with republican members in new york, he called shafik inept and weak, unable to maintain or assure the safety of jewish students but also there are ongoing negotiations between student protesters who set up an encampment on campus and the administration. now, there was a midnight deadline last night to have the tents removed, but that was extended after negotiation moved in a positive direction. there is some common ground that the administration and protesters have found, including that protesters will remove some of the tents that are part of the encampment but not all. they will remove nonstudents, people who are not students at columbia university, but that also prohibit harassing or discriminatory language. while things are calm right now, there is a lot brewing behind the scenes, including those

negotiations, and again, house speaker mike johnson to stand in solidarity. again, when he spoke about not just the protests here on columbia university but all across the country, he called them disgusting and unacceptable, katy. >> trymaine lee, thank you very much. joining us now, "new york times" opinion columnist and constitutional law expert david french who wrote last month about what has been happening at harvard and mitt, i have never seen such comprehensive abuse directed against vulnerable campus groups. i have seen directed at jewish students and faculty since hamas's terror attack on october 7th. david, it's good to have you. i know you wrote that last month about what was happening at harvard. things have changed in the past month, and protests are happening across the country. what are you seeing? >> yeah, what i'm seeing is massive confusion between what is free speech, what is civil disobedience and what is outright lawlessness. so free speech can be tough, katy. this is something where you will hear words you don't want to

hear, and you will hear thoughts and expressions with which you strongly disagree, but campuses are supposed to protect free speech. they also should respect civil disobedience, and civil disobedience is not free speech. it's breaking a valid law, and receiving and accepting the consequence of breaking that valid law. if you sit in and you're expelled or suspended you accept the consequence for the larger greater good of supporting whatever cause you want to support, but what we're beginning to see now is students veering away from just free speech and away from civil disobedience properly understood, into a form of lawlessness which is we get to occupy this ground, we get to take this part of the campus, essentially as our own, which necessarily means excludeing other voices from the occupied ground, and then refusing to accept any consequence for that. and that is when you begin to get into outright lawlessness,

which is both contradicts what genuine civil disobedience is and begins to impair the free speech rights of other people in the community. and so this is what campuses have to balance, protect free speech, respect true civil disobedience, but have no tolerance for actual lawlessness. and that is easier to articulate. it's hard to actually demonstrate it. but these campuses have got to get this balance right or this will spiral out of control. >> that's what i'm wondering. how do they do that? how do they allow for free speech, which is going to make people uncomfortable on their campuses, but also protect the safety and rights of the minority group here which are jewish students and not have a tolerance for what veers off into hate speech, say people saying, you know, october 7th a million times over or hamas was right or the al qassam bring

-- brigade is going to get these people, holding the israeli flag in the background. how do you thread that needle? >> a lot of what people call hate speech is still free speech under the first amendment. there are ways that can become harassment. if you're individually targeting students, preventing them from enjoying the benefit of educational program. that begins to get into actual harassment. there has to be a broad tolerance for free speech, including free speech that hurts you deeply. this is a part of the marketplace of ideas. however, here's a bright line, for example, katy, when that first tent goes up, it has to come down. because when that tent goes up what that is saying is we are violating, we intend to violate reasonable time, place and manner restrictions. so what these universities have done for a long time is they

kind of allowed activists to violate the rules with impunity until it crosses some sort of invisible line, and then they say, well, now we're getting serious. when that happens, by that point, the situation is often almost entirely out of control. what you have to do is you have to say, look, from the get go, we are fairly and strictly enforcing our time, place and manner restrictions and that means you can't occupy the quad. you can't block people from going to class. you can't occupy administration buildings. as soon as that happens we will stop it. as soon as it happens. but it's allowing it to metastasize to the point where you have to bring in a hundred police or 200 police, or however many is when you see these tensions boil over. but a smart and aggressive administration that's protecting free speech and protecting students from harassment will immediately move when the schools' rules are broken. immediately. you don't let it get to this

point. and yet, the sad thing is a lot of people on these campuses are sympathetic with the protesting students that they make it difficult for the administration to move. they make it difficult for an administration internally politically to take the action that needs to be taken. respect free speech, but don't allow this occupation and obstruction. that's not lawful. it violates university rules and you can't let it go on. >> it's become difficult to go to class. everything has been moved online at least at columbia. david french, really good to have you. thanks as always. >> thank you so much. coming up, what happens if donald trump is found in contempt for violating his gag order? what actually happens? don't go anywhere. y happens? don't go anywhere. salonpas lidocaine flex. a super thin, flexible patch with maximum otc strength lidocaine that contours to the body to relieve pain right where it hurts. and did we mention, it really, really sticks? salonpas, it's good medicine.

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court is off today, but judge merchan could rule on whether donald trump violated his gag order this afternoon. while trump will be back in new york criminal court tomorrow, either way, his legal attention will be split with some of his lawyers in washington where the supreme court will hear oral arguments on his claim of presidential immunity for january 6th. joining us now, former acting assistant attorney general for national security at the department of justice and msnbc legal analyst, mary mccord. i'm going to leave the gag order aside for now because we're going to find out one way or another. i want to talk about tomorrow and this immunity hearing. could it be that they decided to hear this case because ultimately they, being the

majority, want to kick it back to judge chutkan to find out where the line is on immunity. and if that happens, does this case ever see the light of day? >> it certainly could be that some justices think that there is some level of immunity for official acts, and of course judge chutkan did not rule about what things donald trump was accused of doing would fall within official acts. her ruling was and affirmed by the d.c. circuit was that there is no immunity even for official acts. if that's the thinking of the supreme court and it's remanded, jack smith is arguing that judge chutkan could still go to trial because there was so much private conduct involved here for a private aim using private actors, including private attorneys that even if there were some official acts involved, proper evidentiary instructions and jury instructions could take care of that and that anything else could be appealed thereafter.

so we will see if the court asks questions about that tomorrow. >> are there specific questions that you're going to be watching for? >> certainly the question percentage was whether and to what extent there's immunity for official acts. they're going to hone in on official acts, there's no immunity for conduct whatsoever, even if it's in the scope of official acts and i think we'll see the second piece. what if there is? if there is, is anything mr. trump is charged with an official act? is it not? what do we do if some of it? >> mary mccord, thank you very much. and we are waiting on speaker mike johnson who will make an experience at columbia university. he's going to walk up to those microphones. we expect him to call for the resignation of columbia university's president, saying she's not doing enough to protect jewish students at the

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president biden described the reasons behind the delay. >> i think the demonization of ukraine began by tucker carlson. who in my opinion ended up where he should have been all along which is interviewing vladimir putin. and so he had an enormous audience, which convinced a lot of rank and file republicans that maybe this was a mistake. and then our nominee for president didn't seem to want us to do anything at all. that took months to work our way through it. >> it's a path to my desk, it was a difficult path. it should have been easier and should have gotten there sooner, but in the end, we did what america always does, we rose to the moment. we came together. and we got it done. >> also in the bill, a provision to force bytedance to sell tiktok, giving the chinese

company nine months to divest or face a ban in the u.s. joining us now, nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan noble. a lot to go through there, ryan. i want to start with tiktok, what's the deal with this ban? >> reporter: well, it's not a ban quite yet, katy. it essentially is going to force in chinese-based company to sell within nine months or up to a year or they will be shut down here in the united states. but it may not be that easy, bytedance has promised a rigorous court battle as a result of this. tiktok ceo went to their platform to promise the followers of tiktok and the tiktok users that they would do everything in their legal power to prevent this from being enacted. they argue that it is a first amendment and free speech issue, and that's why they think they are willing to go through this process. it is interesting that the chinese-based company is claiming that they have a first amendment and free speech right here in the united states where the chinese government has banned several american-owned social media apps in the last month or two, over the last

couple of weeks, katy. >> very interesting indeed. let me ask you about this break. this is a bill that donald trump did not support. what does it mean for republicans to break with him? is this a movement or a moment? >> reporter: well, it's interesting. you played senate minority leader mitch mcconnell's thoughts on this, and i just wrapped up a lengthy one on one interview with him that we'll have on msnbcnews.com in a bit. getting into donald trump's role was interesting. he acknowledged along with tucker carlson that donald trump played a big role in republicans backing away from the idea that ukraine funding was a smart idea, and then what he ultimately said was donald trump's decision to kind of back away from his earlier backing away of ukraine support kind of gauged space for individual republican members to assess this on their own and come up with their own conclusion, and the fact that donald trump didn't continue to hammer it right up until the very end gave them the space to vote yes and recognized that this was a real

problem. mitch mcconnell believes there's a family fight, he described it, in the republican party over these isolationist policies that donald trump has really been a champion of. that's kind of the whole basis of the america first movement, but he believes that his side is winning. he thinks more republicans at the end of the day will support this idea that american needs to be actively involved in foreign policy around the world or else the outcome could be a very very negative one, katy. >> ryan, let me also ask you about what we're about to see at columbia university. we're waiting on speaker mike johnson to come out. he was meeting with jewish students. why is he going to call for the resignation of the school's president? >> reporter: this comes just a couple of days after columbia's president was here on capitol hill and faced a tough grilling from his republican joined by members of the republican delegation from the state of new york who claim that the university is not doing enough to keep the jewish students on campus safe enough. he is going to call for the president to resign. he has been meeting with campus

leaders throughout the day today. he has meeting with members of the jewish community there. he is asking for the president to take some sort of action to tamp down the tensions there and to make sure jewish students are protected. we will see when he speaks what specifics he wants to put behind that. this is something that republicans have been behind. they are concerned about the spread of this rising tension at college campuses across the country. >> thank you very much. we are waiting on speaker mike johnson who is set to come to the camera in a moment. we will take a very, very short break. we will sneak in some ad time here, pay some bills. don't go anywhere. there's jake sherman. come back.

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we are going back to columbia university. joining us now is antonia hylton. it's good to have you. you have been talking to students there. what are they protesting? is it companies that invest in israel? is it israel's war against hamas and the way it's being prosecuted? is it netanyahu? is it israel's right to exist? what are they demanding? >> reporter: their central demand is die -- divestment.

they have companies they list like microsoft. but, they are asking the university to be more transparent and give students information about any potential programs or business dealings or investments that they have. they say they don't have enough information from the university at this point. we are experiencing a bit of a split screen moment here. we have the encampment, the center of the organizing activity here right behind me. very peaceful this afternoon. students available to talk about what they are going through. we have speaker johnson getting ready to speak just moments away up here with a different message. he is here specifically to speak to jewish students and their concerns here on campus. take a listen to a conversation that i had with one of the organizers who spelled out their side of this.

>> at end of the day we have this encampment that has shown solidarity with each other, other colleges, the palestinian people. that's something the administration cannot take away from us. however, the administration keeps bluffing the students, keeps promising things they do not get to achieve. the way they have been treating is as if we were strangers in our own campus. as if they hadn't been teaching us what we are applying at this encampment. people are upset and frustrated at this university and at the state of this country, to be honest. >> reporter: as i talked to students on all sides, the one thing that people seem to agree on is that they are disappointed in the president. i spoke to jewish students who feel she hasn't done enough to keep them safe. then organizers like the one you met there are still incredibly angry at the presence of the nypd, the way they sweeped in,

more than 100 students facing court summons, faculty telling me as they met with the president at an internal meeting she was met with silence, no applause. a complete iciness. the administration is under immense pressure. people don't agree on the geopolitical situation on what leaders like speaker johnson should do. the one thing they agree on is columbia leadership has failed. >> she's under a lot of strain, the president specifically. why are so many of the protesters wearing masks? is there a covid outbreak out there? >> reporter: we have spoken to some of them about this. the answers range. for some of the students, they are concerned about covid. many americans are to longer wearing masks. they are concerned about health risks and the possibility as they camp out together in close quarters that students could become sick. for others, it's more about

surveillance or the possibility of being recognized, they say. they like using the mask so people don't recognize them. their faces aren't recorded. at night, what the students experience are drones and helicopters flying overhead. at one point last night students said that a drone was flying over them 15 feet off the ground. that's been very unsettlings. it encouragd them to wear masks and sunglasses. the students say that's what they feel they need to do to stay safe. >> why do they think they need to protect their identity? i will get that question answered on another day. antonia hylton, thank you. that's it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right now. ♪♪ hi, everyone. it's hump day. doesn't it feel like an