rights. politics is part of this, it's not just to spread the gospel. there is an end to this, there is a goal, here, at the end of the day. >> another blurry line, lifewise itself is not a political organization, these are elementary school students. in my observations i haven't seen them talk about politics or tell those kids to vote a particular way. when you see who they associate with, you do start to raise questions. lifewise last summer had a teacher summit, and patriot mobile, a group that many of your viewers would be familiar with, we talked about it a few times. they are an openly far right christian organization that supported and funded this event, then you see joel clinton, the founder, go on a program, and you start to see that political association. >> you see the roots or treetops of where this is going or coming from. antonia, amazing reporting, nbc

news correspondent. thank you for your time tonight, that is our show for this evening, now it is time for the last word. >> absolutely amazing reporting, thank you for highlighting that, you have a great evening. a couple weeks ago the donald trump supporters told us not to believe our lying ears when donald trump said this. >> we're going to put a 100% terrace on every single car that comes across the line. and you're not going to be able to sell those. if i get elected, if i don't get elected, it's going to be a bloodbath, that's going to be the least of it. it's going to be a bloodbath for the country, that'll be the least of it. but they're not going to sell those cars. >> relax. he wasn't talking about a bloodbath, bloodbath, he was just talking about a bloodbath for the country involving the auto industry. trumps allies told us that, political analysts told us that. even some journalists told us that. so trump was referring to cars

yesterday, or was he? in michigan when he spoke in a lectern bearing the words, stop bidens border bloodbath? it was during those remarks the trump claimed he spoke with the family of a murder victim named ruby garcia, a 25-year-old woman who was allegedly killed by an undocumented immigrant. except he didn't. he did not speak with any of us, ruby's sister, said in an interview, so it's shocking seeing that he said he had spoken with us, misinforming people on live tv. nbc news reports when asked to confirm if trump editing spoken with a member of ruby garcia's family, the trump campaign declined to comment on the record. this specific deception feeds into the violent dehumanizing way that trump uses the issue of immigration to try to terrorize his way back to the oval office. trump wants you to believe that we live in a violent treacherous nation where his

political rivals are vermin, and he alone, as he says it, stands between you and an invasion of animals, also his words, at the border. this playbook is tried and true the world over. and on people not reading history and knowing that his dupe has been tried and has worked masterfully before. but forget about history for the moment, let's just remind to what trump said about immigrants in this country, in december. >> when they let, i think the real number is 15, 16 million people into our country, when they do that, we got a lot of work to do. they're poisoning the blood of our country. >> you've heard plenty of people tell you that trump was echoing the words of adolf hitler, there. maybe you don't believe that. maybe you don't think he really did that. maybe you think it's just a coincidence that trump used the phrase poisoning the blood of our country. none of that would be true. or educational purposes, the university of oklahoma has available online an english

language translation of the 11th chapter of adults hitler's book, mein kampf. member, trumps and people immigrating into the united states were poisoning the blood of our country. in chapter 11 of mein kampf, a chapter titled nation and race, hitler wrote, all great cultures of the past perished only because the originally creative race died out from blood poisoning. in a softball right wing radio interview, trump was confronted about this and he said, i never knew that hitler said it. i know nothing about hitler. i'm not a student of hitler. i never read his works. never read his works. remember, trump has not shied away from seeing great things about other autocrats and strongmen. he said hungary's despotic leader is fantastic. he called north korea's murderous dictator very honorable. trump through the entire western alliance into a

tailspin when, as president of the united states of america, he denigrated the work of his own intelligence community and parroted vladimir putin's criticisms of the united states. america's decades long subjection to donald trump is littered with hateful and violent words and actions. donald trump has refused, still, to apologize for taking out full-page newspaper ads in four new york city newspapers in 1989 calling for the death penalty for the central part five. five black and latino men who were wrongfully convicted as teenagers for the assault of a new york city jogger. as a candidate in 2016, donald trump said he could shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue and not lose any voters. nsn campaign, he promised to pay the legal bills of any of his supporters who beat up protesters at his rallies. on his inauguration day, he gave a dystopian and ominous speech invoking the phrase, american carnage. as president, donald trump said there were fine people on both

sides, after an innocent woman was murdered in charlottesville, virginia, during a riot between demonstrators and . the night before that deadly riot, those same white supremacist marched through the campus of the university of virginia with torches, chanting, will not replace us, and blood and soil, which is an english translation of the slogan. at a presidential debate in 2020 against joe biden, donald trump, as president, told the proud boys to stand back and stand by. at his rallies, donald trump is calling those jailed for the january 6th insurrection at the capital patriots. those in prison are hostages. those same people who pledged to hang mike pence, who repeatedly assaulted and threatened to kill capital police officers, who build a gallows with a noose outside the capitol building, and desecrated the halls of congress. today a federal judge sentencing a man commit

convicted of assaulting law enforcement said, we cannot condone the normalization of the january 6th u.s. capital riot. but, condone that violence is exactly what donald trump and the republican party are doing. this week, donald trump, the presidential nominee of the party of abraham lincoln had to be gagged by a new york judge after making threatening attacks against daughter. here's the thing. violence is who donald trump is. he uses violent words, wielding them like weapons to make you afraid of him, of the others, of the immigrants. it doesn't matter as long as you are afraid. but it doesn't have to be this way. you shouldn't give over your fear to donald trump, but you also can't ignore him. he counts on the fact that some will follow him into the fire of his creation, but most will look away in horror, hoping time will make it all go away. time will not make it all go

away. throughout this nation's history, many wise americans have offered wisdom in the face of political violence. >> and it may well be that we will have to repent in this generation, not merely for the vitriolic words and the violent actions of the bad people who would bomb a church in birmingham, alabama, but for the appalling silence and indifference of the good people who sit around and say wait on time. somewhere we must come to see that human progress never rolled in on the wheels of inevitability. >> human progress never rolled in on the wheels of inevitability. in other words, things don't get better for those who wait. things only get better for those who act. leading off our discussion tonight, timothy snyder, professor of history at yale university, the author of the road to unfreedom, russia, europe, america, and many other

books. professor snyder, we have talked about this a few weeks ago, but i think it was important to come back. donald trump, on a daily basis is doing things that shock those of us who don't think we can be further shocked. the question is not that you shouldn't be shocked by it, it's what you are supposed to do about it. we were talking this weekend about how he posted a picture of a truck that was decorated, wrapped to look like joe biden with a bullet in his head, was hog-tied in the bed of that truck. what's the danger of normalizing this? >> the problem is what trump is doing, he's changing what is normal. he's getting us used to the idea that violent words, violent phrases, indirect threats, that this is all, this is normal. of course, our whole political system is based on the idea that you have a constitution, a social contract, an agreement to hand over power peacefully. what one has to be able to do

is say, this is the kind of person who, if elected or who gets close to power, will automatically undo the system. and be calm about it, and make that a reason to make sure that this person doesn't get close to power. >> get close to power is an interesting term. he made a reference to this in a recent article that you wrote. getting close to power is not the same as winning power. you've made the point that donald trump is setting up a situation in which, on november 5th, he doesn't actually have to win more votes than joe biden to achieve his goals. >> i don't think in any of these elections, in 16 or 20 or 24, trump has ever believed that he was going to win. every single time, he's said in one version or another that it was going to be stacked against him, people were going to be cheat, it was going to be rigged against him. i don't think he's ever had the notion that he was going to win the popular or electoral vote, i think each time, now with increasing violence and increasing fervor and fear on his side, he's just tried to

get close enough that he could stage something. i think he was generally surprised in 2016 when he won, i think he was not surprised in 2020 when he lost. he was ready for that, he'd been advertising for months that he was going to try something if he failed to win, and this time he's made it clearer than ever, he's making it clear to us that his whole game is to get a reasonably close in november, and then see what he can try to pull off. we have more time to make sure that he doesn't get reasonably close, and we have more time to try to head off the various extralegal things he could try in november. >> you talk about this, and you say let's be calm, which is good, we don't have to lose, our hair doesn't have to be on fire about this. you can't be nothing, you can't wish it away, you can't decide that because you don't like to hear donald trump's voice that you shouldn't hear what he's got to say. so what's your guidance for people who really don't want to listen to donald trump? they don't believe they're

going to vote for him, they don't believe he's going to win the election, what is the thing that we're called upon to do other than vote on november 5th? >> such a great question. the most important thing is to do something. also, what trump is trying to do among other things is demoralize everybody. he's trying to make everything seem dirty, he's trying to make politics seem dirty, he's trying to make the good people seem just like him. part of his strategy is to make the biden administration seemed just like a version of him. ever but he is bad, so pick your flavor of bad. when you do something good, some little thing, a letter to the editor of a newspaper, a conversation with somebody at a bar, phone banking, calling your congressman about legislation, anything that you do, campaign for candidates that you care about, donating money to people, especially down ballot. anything that you do then makes you feel better, especially if you do it with other people, and you get a positive cycle going where you're doing something good, and you're feeling better about doing something good, and at the end, you win, but you know there are lots of people around you who

are trying to do good things. you end up on the right side, but then you're not demoralized. you're happy at the end of it. >> let's talk about us, journalism. you've got, this is a time when we should be introspective, we should be trying to get is as right as we can. what are the things that we should be doing, now, in light of the fact that donald trump crosses new redlines on a daily basis. what's the way in which we cover this properly, and provide the necessary context without being gratuitous or creating unnecessary fear? >> number one is good old- fashioned just covering what the man says and does. i don't think there has been enough, we talked about this last time, i don't think there's been enough simple coverage of the rally's. people need to know that the rallies begin with an appeal to people who have been convicted of crimes. they need to know that the rallies begin from the premise that there should be a violent overthrow of the american

system. that's how every single rally begins, and i don't think people know that. the second thing is, journalists have to accept that both sides is him is suicide for democracy. if you just say there are two sides to everything and i'm going to find it my way into the middle, you're always going to give the people who overthrow the system and advantage. you're always going to be sharing your legitimacy within. you're going to be getting your legitimacy to them. people have to be able to cover the election in such a way as to say, this person is a and this person is b as opposed to i'm going to somehow find my way into the middle of them and give each side of voice. this is a third thing, not to talk about how the american people are divided. that makes it sound like one hand, other hand. it's not the people who are divided, it's that we have an extraordinary election in which we have an unusual candidate who's already tried to overthrow the system once, and tells us basically every day that he's just aiming to get close enough that he can use violence to overthrow it again.

that's what should be covered. >> jim, we appreciate it, thank you for continuing analysis, we are going to have to have this conversation several more times before november. timothy snyder, a professor of history at yale university and an offer of a number of important books that are uniquely relevant in this moment. coming up, special counsel jack smith has a lot of strong words for judge aileen cannon in a new filing, including that she is wrong on the law. the most important words he wrote, appellate review. and that should have judge cannon running scared. neil and joyce vance join me, after a break. break. we texted her when we were on our way. and she could track us and see exactly when we'd arrive. >> woman: i have a few more minutes. let's go! >> tech vo: we came to her with service that fit her schedule. >> woman: you must be pascal. >> tech: nice to meet you. >> tech vo: we got right to work, with a replacement she could trust. we come to you for free! schedule now for free mobile service at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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>> aileen cannon is wrong. special counsel jack smith did not mince words when he filed the government's response to trump appointed judge aileen cannon's request for proposed jury instructions, including a jury instruction cannon said she was considering that would essentially leave a jury no choice but to acquit donald trump. in a strong rebuke, jack smith repeatedly called judge cannon's interpretation of the presidential records act wrong, and said it would distort the trial, asserting bluntly that the presidential records act has nothing to do with whether donald trump illegally retained classified documents in violation of the espionage act. it would be pure fiction to suggest that highly classified documents created by members of the intelligence community and military and presented to the president of the united states during his term in office were

purely private. jack smith also points out that donald trump has never actually used that defense, that the documents were personal. trumps entire effort to rely on the presidential records act is not based on any facts. it is a post hoc justification that was concocted more than a year after he left the white house, and in his indication in this court of the presidential records act is not grounded in any decision he actually made during his presidency to designate as personal any of the records charged. jack smith also made it clear that he's willing to take the issue back to the 11th circuit court of appeals here if, however, the court does not reject that erroneous legal premise, it should make that decision clear now, long before jeopardy attaches, to allow the government the opportunity to seek appellate review.

you'll remember that the 11th circuit court of appeals has already, twice, reversed judge cannon. first after she blocked the government from accessing the documents seized from mar-a- lago, and then when it reversed her decision to appoint a special master to oversee the review of the documents. 20 is now, former acting u.s. solicitor general, who has argued 50 cases before the supreme court. is professor at georgetown law and the host of the podcast courtside with neil. also joining us, joyce vance, former united states attorney. before she was united states attorney she was the head of the u.s. attorney's appellate division, and was in charge of all matters before the 11th circuit court of appeals. both are msnbc legal analysts, good evening. joyce, let me start with you. i read a lot of legal terminology, but there's this talk of jeopardy, and there is this discussion by jack smith to say, please make whatever decision you're going to make now, because if you don't do it

now, we have a problem. what did he mean? >> here's the problem that happens with aileen cannon's refusal to issue a ruling on trumps motion to dismiss under the presidential records act. the reason jack smith says he's entitled to a decision now is that if she rules against him, he can appeal that in advance. he can go to the 11th circuit and ask them to second-guess. and the reality is that virtually every legal expert who is not in the trump campus looked at this issue says the presidential records act has nothing to do with whether or not someone is illegally in possession of classified national defense information. it seems pretty clear that the judge is in error territory. she's trying to delay ruling on that motion until after the trial starts, and here's why that matters. once the jury is sworn in, double jeopardy attaches. if she dismisses the case in trumps favor after double

jeopardy attaches, jack smith can't appeal her. he can't retry the case because the government can only try a defendant one time on a set of charges. so what she's essentially trying to do here is to protect trump. to insulate him behind a decision that she would make after the jury was impaneled, when the government couldn't try him again, and defeating the governments right to appeal. jack smith has finally decided to get tough, and he said look, the clock is ticking. he hasn't told her how much time she has, but he said i need my ruling before we go to trial and if i don't get it, i'll ask the court to order you to rule correctly. >> which has not gone her way a couple times in the past. neil, part of the problem, and there are two issues. one is the argument that jack smith makes about the presidential records act, but the other one is this idea that the judge seems to be considering giving the jury an instruction that would be

counter to the law. it's just that the instruction that she's considering about the president can do xyz is not how the law is written. it's not a vague law about the presidential records act. >> that's exactly right. so what smith did is take both of your points and basically say, in legal terms, a whole bunch of stuff, but it boils down to, judge cannon, we've had enough. basically saying to her, you're getting this totally wrong, and your delaying things, and you're risking a double jeopardy acquittal, so they use some very stern language and warned her, as joyce says, that we are going to mandamus, which is to say you were so clearly wrong we are going to take this to immediate appeal to the 11th circuit and possibly even seek your removal as a judge in this case. when i ran the solicitor general's office, the office that controls all federal appeals, i had prosecutors from

across the country that would come to me and asked for that. and say look, this judge is out of line, don't, we have to file this piece of paper, this mandamus. almost always, we would say no. the typical thing in the justice department is be patient, let the system play out. but when you have a judge whose repeatedly aired the way this judge has, enough is enough, and in those rare circumstances, and it sure looks like this is one, that's when you seek mandamus and you possibly even seek the removal of a judge. that is something you do only as a very last resort, but unfortunately, we are at that stage, so smith's filing says, look, kids gloves are off, we've been as patient as we possibly can with you, judge. this is it. human joyce, but let's examine the question of fact, the question of law isn't a question. the law on this is settled. the fact is interesting, in that there's this whole debate

over the presidential records act and what donald trump would like there to be a debate about what he's allowed to do, but there is no actual assertion that he did any of that.'s team is not even asserting that he actually took any steps to create personal records, or to determine what is restrictive or classified material. jack smith's point is, even if this were true, which it's not, none of it happened. >> it's really incredible. smith goes to a lot of trouble to go through this step by step, saying, not only has trump never said that he designated any of these records as personal, he's gone to a lot of trouble to craft an argument that lets them avoid saying that. he's made this argument that any time he takes stuff out of the white house and doesn't take it to the national archives, but takes it someplace else, that means that it's automatically personal, not a presidential record.

and smith really makes mincemeat of this argument, pointing out that the records, the classified documents found at mar-a-lago, our intelligence community documents created by the intelligence community, shown to trump in the course of his official work as the president of the united states. if anything is a presidential record, it's these documents. the government is dead serious here, and neil knows this better than i do. when i was the appellate chief in the northern district of alabama, neil was, for a part of that time the acting solicitor general. if i wanted to take an appeal, i had to go to neil's office for permission to do that. as he says in these mandamus and recusal situations, it's very rarely given. but we note that jack smith has it here, federal prosecutors don't make empty threats. if he talks about firing a motion to mandamus, that means he's already gone to the solicitor general, he's gotten her approval, the government is

dead serious about getting this situation resolved. >> neil, play that out for me. if you gone to the solicitor general and he has approval or a sense that this might be the course he takes, what happens? >> smith is going to wait for judge cannon to try and resolve this. if she doesn't resolve it, then he is going to have to make a decision about when to file that motion before the 11th circuit. i suspect it's going to happen fairly soon. the clock is really ticking, here, and to underscore joyce's point, i think i authorized one mandamus action in my time at the justice department, from across the entire country, all 50 states. it's something you do rarely, and i remember going home that night and almost tearing up about it, because it was such a grave step. and i don't think that smith and the solicitor general, to the extent she's involved already, is doing it in any other way. this is an extreme action, but sometimes when you have extreme

decisions they demand extreme action. >> part of the extremist of this is the timing, judge aileen cannon has been a remarkable slow walker. if jack smith decides to do this, at what speed with the 11th circuit act on this? the context is that the 11th circuit has had the aileen cannon brief before them before. >> the 11th circuit will move quickly, they've always been a circuit that's believed in fast action, and they've proven that in the two prior appeals of judge cannon's issues. there is one more important thing to note, here, which is every circuit, the law is a little bit different, it's fairly consistent, that's why we have a supreme court, there's something unusual down here, where the 11th circuit has said, we don't usually order judges to recuse from cases based on the way they've conducted that case. usually recusal requires some sort of a financial conflict of interest. but when a judge has been

repeatedly reversed, we think that we have the authority to remove that judge from the case, not because the judge is a bad judge or we have any beef with the judge, we simply think it would be difficult, too difficult for them to set aside their earlier rulings. in fact, in one of my cases, i think one that neil authorized the appeal on, the 11th circuit set aside the judge, it was their decision to do that, for that precise reason. i think that we could very easily see them do something like that here. >> neil, if this all were to happen the way jack smith wanted to happen, jack smith's goal is he wants this trial to occur. is there still any possibility that this trial occurs before the election? >> absolutely. jack smith his goal is to make sure trial happened before the election, because if donald trump becomes president on day one, he will and this prosecution as the president has the power to do, to call off any prosecution, including one of himself.

drums goal is exact reverse, which is to delay this trial until january 20th, hope he wins, and then if he wins, nullify the prosecution. i still think there's absolutely time for this trial to happen, it should happen, the american people deserve to know what donald trump did with these extremely sensitive classified and otherwise documents. i can tell you before i was in the solicitor general's office, i was national security advisor to the justice department. and we saw cases like this, and maybe not with these number of extreme documents, but more minor ones, and of course those people went to jail. of course they were prosecuted and the prosecution did not take year after year the way this one appears to be going right now. >> i have learned a lot tonight, and we're going to hear this word a lot, mandamus, that some of us have never said before. we appreciate your amazing analysis and making this easy for us to understand. neil and joyce, thank you both.

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she got that dress with the extra money she saved using our brand new grocery outlet app. it's been really fun seeing what everyone's doing with the extra money they save. a butler? super nice guy.

with our new grocery outlet app, you can see the store's inventory. so you guys really have mangoes and stuff? yup. it is day eight of donald trump's meme stock moment. the stock debuted last tuesday at eight dollars a share but was down to $50 a share by closing time at the end of the first day. this week after a regulatory filing showing that trumps media, trump media's mounting

losses and an independent auditor released a statement expressing substantial doubt about trump media's ability to continue as a going concern. from stock fell again to where it currently sits at about $48 a share, that's a 39% loss from the opening high on march 26th. the cost to trump? in eight days trump has lost about $3 billion from his trump media stock, $3 billion of value disappeared, went in a week. it's almost like the value wasn't really there. donald trump still has about $3.7 billion on paper but likely has to wait six months before he can sell any of his 50%, 57% stake in the company. that means he would be able to cash out in october, which would be the final stretch of the presidential campaign, which would be awfully convenient. also convenient is that the merger that has provided trump with this hail mary infusion of value can courtesy of a republican billionaire, who masqueraded as a never trumper

until donald trump changed his position on tiktok, which is an actually valuable asset that he personally has $21 billion invested in. to any reasonable person, that looks like a convenient way for a republican billionaire to help the republican candidate, trump, outside of campaign finance laws. as always you will find the best people around any trump undertaking. today, two venture capitalists pleaded guilty to insider trading that allowed trump media to go public in the first place. brothers michael and gerald sportsmen knew about the 2021 deal that would allow a shell company to merge with donald trump social media company to become publicly traded and they made millions of dollars off of their insider knowledge and they now face maximum sentences of 20 years each in prison. the guardian is reporting exclusively that in 2022, the fledgling trump media company took an emergency loan from a

company that the guardian says is a shell company for a russian american businessman who is under federal criminal investigation. there is no reporting, by the way, that says trump media knew about the source of the loan, and nbc has not confirmed that reporting. but there's a lot going on here, joining us now is sheila, staff writer for the new yorker and a former hedge fund analyst. great to see you again. this is a tricky one, there's a lot going on. companies go public, it happens all the time. there are mergers, companies failed, companies don't make enough money, they debut at a high price and drop. but there's so many interesting pieces to this story that it does make one go. >> there are a lot of red flags surrounding this going public situation, number one, trump employed this shell company strategy which is its main selling point is that it allows companies to become publicly

traded quickly, there is very little betting of the underlying business or outside analyst, looking at the books, it's unclear whether truth social is even a really legitimate business, to be honest. we don't really know what it's business plan is, or its plan to become profitable. many of the stockholders here are from fans. they are people who just love him and want to support him, and don't really care what he says or does or whether his business is successful or not. and what you really want to see when you have an ipo is a lot of long-term, stable experienced investors, mutual funds, value investors moving in, and owning your stock. that is definitely not what's happened. there are demands of being a publicly traded company that just don't fit with trump see those. it requires a lot of transparency. you're required to report audited numbers to your

stockholders. you're supposed to reveal what's going on and who is making decisions, and it's safe to say that he has long been someone who likes to keep all of that hidden. >> let's talk a little bit about, let's be clear, there is no allegation that jeff yass, who said , big investor, the biggest single shareholder in tiktok, there's no allegation of any wrongdoing whatsoever. it's just unusual that a guy has a big position in a company, tiktok, donald trump comes out against tiktok. these two guys apparently meet, everybody denied that they had a conversation about tiktok, then donald trump changes his position on tiktok, again, no allegations whatsoever of wrongdoing. but it's a little unusual. >> you're right, it is unusual. the general dynamic average business people trying to court politicians, especially presidents who might have some influence over their financial interest is not new, of course.

that is why, in general, presidents and serious candidates are required to, or requested to the best of their business interests, and to put their assets in things like blind trusts, and trump has consistently refused to do that, he's got this incredible tangle of different businesses and different deals and shenanigans he's up to. it's created a lot of leeway, a lot of entry points for potential corruption, attempts to influence him in improper ways, and of course the yass tiktok connection cannot be ignored. the guy is talking his book, as they say on wall street. >> good to see you again, thank you as always. a staff writer for the new yorker and a former hedge fund analyst. coming up, more breaking news, as president biden prepares to speak directly to

benjamin netanyahu in the aftermath of the idf killing seven aid workers from andres world central kitchen in gaza, next. next. a once—daily pill. when symptoms tried to take control, i got rapid relief... and reduced fatigue with rinvoq. check. when flares kept trying to slow me down... i got lasting steroid—free remission... with rinvoq. check. and when my doctor saw damage,... rinvoq helped visibly reduce damage of the intestinal lining. check. for both uc and crohn's: rapid symptom relief... lasting steroid—free remission... and visibly reduced damage. check. check. and check. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. put uc and crohn's in check... and keep them there with rinvoq. ask your gastroenterologist about rinvoq

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as the white house is promising tough conversations. after seven aid workers from chef jose andres world central

kitchen including an american were killed monday in an israeli air strike. now, jose andres who is known and loved around the world for his heroic humanitarian work is speaking out. in a new york times op-ed and in a new interview with reuters where he says, israeli forces targeted his aid workers systematically, car by car. >> the seven team members, the specialty security people we have, three reddish eagles, three international crew, one palestinian, they were targeted systematically, car by car. this happened over more than 1.8 kilometers. this was not bad luck, situation where, oops, we dropped a bomb in the wrong place. no, this was over 1.5, 1.8

kilometers with a very defined humanitarian convoy that had signs in the top, in the roof. humanitarians and civilians should never be paying the consequences of war. this is a basic principle of humanity. at the time, this looks like it's not a war anymore. it seems this is a war against humanity itself. >> a war against humanity itself. to the israeli war cabinet member benny gatz, a political opponent of netanyahu in normal times, called for israeli elections to take place in september, two years for the end of netanyahu's term. this comes after he made the rounds in washington, meeting vice president harris of the white house with leaders schumer and mcconnell and with the secretary of state antony blinken. after the canceled, un-canceled meetings between netanyahu loyalists and the biden administration grew heated over israel's plans for roth, axios reports u.s. officials told israelis that the humanitarian

crisis in gaza that has been deteriorating over the past five months doesn't create confidence in israel's ability to conduct an efficient and orderly evacuation of civilians. the sources said, in addition, national security advisor jake sullivan warned the israelis that in the next few weeks, the integrated food security phase classification, ipc organization, could issue a famine declaration for gaza, two sources said. the sources said sullivan told the israelis that if that happens, it would be only the third such declaration in the 21st 60 century. in his op-ed today, jose andres wrote, israel is better than the way this war is being waged. it is better than blocking food and medicine to civilians. it is better than killing aid workers who had coordinated their movements with the israeli defense forces. the israeli government needs to open new land routes for food and medicine today. it needs to stop killing civilians and aid workers

today. it needs to start the long journey to peace today. in the worst conditions, after the worst terrorist attack in its history, it is time for the best of israel to show up. you cannot save hostages by bombing every building in gaza. you cannot win this war by starving an entire population. joining us now, david roth comp, foreign affairs all of columnist for the daily beast, also the host of the deep state radio podcast, it's good to see you, thank you for being with us. i've seen jose andres and his team in many places, many countries, and they work very hard to not fall into the middle of a political conflict. i've never heard jose andres like this. >> you're absolutely right, you can tell in the words of that op-ed that he was trying once again to show the kind of grace and generosity of spirit for which he is known, but he's also showing the anger that is

completely due three vehicles targeted, three times, the israelis warned long in advance. the attacks taking place over an extended area of 2.4 kilometers. it's just inexcusable. and it is, the hardest thing for anybody who knows jose andres to imagine that he would take such a strong stance, unless he was not just outraged, but that he had the evidence that it was clear to him that what has happened was as wrong as he says it was peer >> what happens next? when bad things happen, we get lamentations from the white house, we get expressions from joe biden that make you want to believe that he means it, and they'll have tough conversations tomorrow. what really happens? there's a really good conversation that the united states can have with israel to

say, you got to do things this way and not that way but it doesn't ever turn out that way. >> we are long past the time for tough conversations, or for presidential expressions of outrage. it's time for the united states to use the leverage that it has with the israelis. what does that mean? it means saying we will no longer provide offensive weapons to the israelis. as we have done this week, weapons that can be used to bomb homes, weapons that have been used to produce the 33,000 civilian casualties that have taken place in gaza since the beginning of this war. it is time for action, the time for words is long past, and frankly, i, as somebody who is very supportive of this administration, in most of its other activities, think that the decisions that are being made now are not only wrong, they make the president look weak, they undermine u.s.

interests, and it's time for a real about-face on policy, here, there has to be recognition that netanyahu is part of the problem, he is not a good ally, he is a serial war criminal, he's got to go, and we've got to use every tool that we've got in our toolbox of leverage in order to achieve that goal, and to begin to help the people of gaza, who as you point out, are falling into famine right now, at a rate we haven't seen in this century, and 1 million of them are at risk. >> david, thank you for an analysis as always, a foreign affairs analyst and columnist for the daily beast. and the host of the deep state podcast. we'll be right back. allergic to

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>> that is tonight last word, the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle begins right now. from tonight, jack smith blasts jury instructions from the judge in the classified documents case. and threatens to appeal if she rules against him. what's next for the special counsel? then, new reporting on how