>> today on "face the nation," rick santorum has a big win in louisiana but can he catch mitt romney in the delegate? >> mitt romney might drop out. i'm not suggesting for the press, i'm not suggesting he drop out but if he wants to, i'll certainly accept his resignation. you know, after you've outspent your opponent about 50 to 1 and you still can't put the race away, at some point you might want to say maybe i can't win after all. >> with another win in the deep south rick santorum campaigns in the next key primary state with wisconsin. how well does he have to do in the rest of the primaries to be a serious contender for the nomination we'll ask him. there's breaking news overnight as former vice president dick cheney undergoes heart transplant surgery. we'll have an update. then we'll take a look at the story that is gripping the nation, the shooting of trayvon martin, an unarmed

african-american teenager in florida. even the president weighed in this week. >> if i had a son he'd look like trayvon. >> reporter: there's outrage across the country over the florida law that allowed the shooter to go free. does the "stand your ground" law go too far? house republican chairman paul ryan will join us to discuss his proposal to overhaul medicare and medicaid. and then we'll get the democratic perspective from new york senator chuck schumer. it's all ahead. because this is "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs from cbs news in washington, "face the nation." substituting this week for bob schieffer, norah o'donnell. >> good morning again. welcome to "face the nation." vice president dick cheney remains hospitalized in the intensive care unit of a washington area hospital after

undergoing successful heart transplant surgery yesterday. cheney suffered from congestive heart failure and has had five heart attacks since the age of 37. he's been waiting for a heart since his last heart attack. the former vice president is 71 years old. there's no word yet about when he will be released. we turn now to our top story. campaign 2012. rick santorum had a big win in the state of louisiana yesterday, picking up 49% of the vote. mitt romney finished in a distant second with 27% of the vote. santorum won 10 delegates in louisiana. which brings his delegate count to 241. he is still about 300 delegates behind mitt romney. rick santorum joins us now from green bay wisconsin. senator, good to see you. thank you so much for joining us. congratulations on your win. >> well, thank you very much. i just want to thank all the folks in louisiana. we had a wonderful time down there. it was just so reassuring to

go down and even though a lot of folks are saying this race is over, people in louisiana said, no, it's not. they still want to see someone who they can trust, someone who is not running an etch a sketch campaign but one that, you know, has their principles written on their heart not on a eraseable tablet. i think that's what helped us deliver the win in louisiana. i think we're going to do very well up here in wisconsin. >> let me ask you though. you're going to need to win about 70% of the of the remaining delegates in their future primary contests. what credible path do you have to the nomination given that? >> first off, i don't agree with the delegate math that the romney campaign is putting out there. for example, florida and arizona, they have it as a winner take all state. they're not winner take all. we saw an article written by the head of the rules committee on the rnc. one of the guys on the rules committee of the rnc. before april 1 no state can be a winner take all. you're looking at, you know, probably 50 or more delegates

that governor romney is going to be proportioned between me and mostly congressman gingrich. and a lot of caucus states. the numbers are wrong. iowa is a good example. 28 delegates. we expect to get the vast majority of them probably up to 20 delegates. we don't think governor romney will get more than 1 or 2. yet they're divided almost equally right now. there's a lot of bad math that doesn't reflect the reality of what's going on on the ground. i think we're in much much better shape than what the numbers that are out there suggest. >> let me ask you about something that a romney spokesman said about your victory last night. they said, quote, rick san santorum is like a football team celebrate ago field goal when they are losing by seven touchdowns with less than a minute left in the game. his attempts to distract from the listless campaign and the conservative back lash caused by the suggestion that keeping president obama would be better than electing a republican or becoming sadder and more pathetic by the day."

what do you have to say to that? sadder and more pathetic. >> you know, that's just a desperate campaign that has no message. i've said from the very beginning, i've said in every interview i've ever been asked. i'm going to support whoever the republican nominee is. i'm running this campaign because i think barack obama's re-election would be the end of freedom as we know it here in america. we're going to support whoever it is. but we want someone who can win. someone who can go up against barack obama and actually draw contrast on the big issues of the day like health care and on energy. governor romney has just been dead wrong on those issues for years and years and years. it would be probably the worst candidate for us to nominate to go after barack obama on gas prices and on government takeover of health care. heck, he created the blueprint for the government takeover of health care that president obama followed. that's what the people in louisiana see. that's what the people of wisconsin are going see. they're looking for someone who is going to win the election because they have better ideas not because

they've been able to pound their opponent into the ground with overwhelming negative ads. governor romney will not be able to pound barack obama into the ground. we have to have someone who can beat him on the issues and connect with voters. that's why we won louisiana last night and that's why we're going to do well in wisconsin. >> you did get in a bit of hot water by suggesting it might be better to keep obama than collect romney. let's play for our viewers exactly what you said in san antonio. >> you win by giving people a choice. you win by giving people the opportunity to see a different vision for our country, not someone who is just going to be a little different than the person in there. if they're going to be a little different we may as well stay with what we have instead of taking a risk of what may be the etch a sketch candidate for the future. >> what did you mean when you said stay with what we have. what we have now is president obama. >> yeah i said we and i was talking collectively as the

voters would decide to stay with what they have. not me. i'm running for president. as i said before. because i believe barack obama must be defeated, period. but i was saying we as in the voters might decide that. we need to give them a choice. it's not someone who is just a little different on the biggest issues of the day. that to me is what this race is really all about. making sure that we have a candidate that can defeat a democratic incumbent. there's only one democratic incumbent that has ever been defeated in the last 100 years in american politics. that was jimmy carter by ronald reagan. we tried before nominating moderates, someone who can appeal to folks in the big cities on the east coast and west coast. that's not what wins the elections. if you look at a rasmussen poll out a couple of weeks ago. in the swing states i lead barack obama by four points and governor romney loses by four points. not that he's going to do better in new york. we're not going to win new york.

and him doing ten points better and still losing new york by 20 points doesn't matter. what matters is that you can win indiana, that you can win ohio. that you can win pennsylvania and north carolina and wisconsin and those are the states that we do and are doing very well in. >> let me ask you quickly then about wisconsin. do you have to win wisconsin to change the momentum in this race? >> we just did, laid on a pretty good one in louisiana. it's a primary state not a caucus. not one you can say it's just a few people voting. it was a primary state. it was a broad turnout down there. we're going to come here to wisconsin. we're trailing in the most recent polls right now. we're being outspent about 60 to 1 here in wisconsin. but you know what? the reaction i got yesterday in traveling around and in bellview and up here in green bay was a great outpouring of support. you know what? yet, i don't know if you saw this but actually it was

bowling yesterday with a bunch of folks at a tournament. he threw three strikes in a row. that's a turkey. that tells you that you've got someone here that can relate to the voters in wisconsin just like those of us in western pennsylvania who grew up in the bowl lanes. >> there you go. let's move on to a very serious subject. of course that is the national uproar that is going on after the death of that 17-year-old trayvon martin in florida. the president made a very personal statement about this. let's listen. >> i can only imagine what these parents are going through. when i think about this boy, i think about my own kids. my main message is to the parents of trayvon martin. you know, if i had a son he would look like trayvon. >> the president did not use the word race but do you think race played a role here?

>> obviously i'm not privy to what's going on in someone's mind. obviously in my opinion someone who has a very sick mind who would pursue someone like this. this is clearly a heinous act. you know, there are a lot of people who have a lot of distorted views of reality. it's a tragic, tragic case. my heart goes out to the parents too. i can't imagine what they're suffering losing their son. in such a horrific way. all i would say is that whatever the motive is, it was a malicious one and a very, very tragic one. >> newt gingrich said that what the president said in a sense is disgraceful because it is not a question of who that man looked like. any young man of any ethnic background should be safe. was newt gingrich wrong to make those comments? >> all i can say is that, again, there are a lot of people who have very perverted views of reality. obviously have, as we see, people who do horrible things

for seemingly senseless reasons. i think it's hard to generalize from one heinous act something that is, you know, try to make a bigger point out of it. i think that's probably what newt was getting at. i would just say to the president and to everybody that, you know, we need to focus on being there to be supportive and, for the family that is going through this tragedy. >> senator rick santorum, thank you for joining us. we're going to turn now to one of the top republicans on capitol hill house budget committee chairman paul ryan. congressman, thank you for joining us. you just released a budget. let's take a quick look at it. you call for $5.3 trillion in spending cuts. $2 trillion in tax cuts. and you would reduce the top bracket to 25%. are you asking everyone to sacrifice in this budget? >> first. we're putting the budget on a path to balance and pay the debt off.

the president's budget brings us closer to a debt crisis. we're not proposing tax cuts. we're propose to go keep revenues where they are but to clear out all the special interest loopholes which are uniquely enjoyed in exchange for lower rates for everyone. a simply flatter more competitive tax system to bring at least as much revenue into the government as we are bringing now but in a fairer way so everybody pays the same tax rate when they make the same amount of money which is the kind of tax code that the president supported. >> the tax rate, you would reduce to 25%. the white house says that under your plan, you would give millionaires in this country 150,000 tax cut. >> those numbers are not credible. the point i would say is that eight out of ten of our businesses in america file their taxes as individuals. the president says their top tax rate in january should go to 44.8% effectively. here's the problem. all of our competitors overseas are lowering their tax rates. canada went to 15.

president obama is saying the tax code that individual small businesses pay goes up to 45. we will lose jobs if we go down that path. we're saying get rid of those tax shelters. the interest group loopholes and lower everybody's tax you'll get more of their income subject to taxation but to a simpler and fairer system. there is a bipartisan consensus that this is the best way to go. unfortunately the president is proposing the opposite. >> you also include changes to medicare and cuts in medicaid. $810 billion in cuts to medicaid. how can you guarantee people that you're not giving tax cuts to the wealthiest and taking away aid to the poor? >> because we want economic growth and job creation. a tax code is stifling job creation. we propose in medicaid is let the governors and the states, give them the flexibility to customize medicaid to meet the unique needs of their populations. in wisconsin our medicaid population is different than in new york. >> you don't deny that you're

cutting $810 from medicaid. >> $810 billion in savings. we still grow medicaid each and every year under our formula. let the states decide to achieve these savings on medicare the president's health care law caps medicare spending but he puts a board of 15 bureaucrats in charge of we say get rid of the board and put 15 million seniors in charge of their own medicare instead of the bureaucrats. >> you proposed a budget similar to this that was considered political suicide. there was an independent organization that ran an ad of you pushing a grandmother off the cliff. why would you do that again this year, propose a similar budget? the democrats are going to take this budget and try and wrap it around the republican party's neck for this election. >> we have a moral and legal obligation to stop this debt crisis from happening. we are the most predictable debt crisis coming in the country. to ignore it is wrong. we think we owe the country solutions. we think we owe the country a path to prosperity to get the

american idea back, get people back to work and get this debt under control. the president is making it worse and the senate hasn't passed a budget for 1,000 days. they're not even trying to solve this problem. even though we're going to get all these ads we still think we have an obligation to put solutions on the table. >> mitt romney says he supports your plan. are you convinced he's a fiscal conservative? >> absolutely. >> are you convinced if he were president that he would enact your budget? >> i think... i'm not expecting everybody to enact every little piece of this. but, yes. he and the other candidates running for president have embraced these kinds of reforms because we know it's the best way to save and strengthen the medicare guarantee.... >> if mitt romney became president of the united states you're convinced he would follow through with a lot of the reductions you have made in this plan. >> yes. >> you're not concerned that this is going to hurt your party in november. >> not at all. the country is smarter than this. people in america are ready to be talked to like adulls. they don't want to be pandered to like children. we feel we owe the country a sharp, clear difference, a choice of two futures so they

can decide what kind of country we want to be. what kind of people we want to be in the 21st century. the president has us on a path of debt and decline. we owe the country an alternative path. this is the choice that we feel we are obligated to give them. i think they're going to make the right choice and save this country from the debt crisis. >> would you consider a vice presidential nomination. >> it's something i'm not even considering right now. i'm so focused my job in congress. if i wanted to be president or vice president so badly i would have run for president. i don't so i didn't. let's not underestimate how important congress is in all of this. i'm focused on trying to prevent a debt crisis with my job as chairman of the budget committee. >> you would consider it. >> i would consider it. it's a decision someone else makes. it's a bridge i haven't gotten close to having to cross. in the meantime i think it's important to do my job and give the country a choice and try and prevent a debt crisis from taking down our economy and destroying the livelihood of our children. >> congressman paul ryan,

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[ male announcer ] ducati knows it's better for xerox to manage their global publications. so they can focus on building amazing bikes. with xerox, you're ready for real business. >> we're back with the top senate democrat chuck schumer joins us from new york. senator, i want to start with the issue of the trayvon martin case. you are a member of the senate judiciary committee. a lot has been made of these "stand your ground" cases. do you think they should be evaluated? >> i do. i'm sending a letter to the justice department today to ask them to expand their investigation into the general application of these "stand your ground" laws, whether they actually increase rather than decrease violence and whether they actually prevent law enforcement from prosecuting cases where real crime has been committed. this "stand your ground" law is a whole new concept in our

jurisprudence. it basically says if you fear great physical harm you can shoot. some people call it shoot first, ask questions later. in fact, in a survey done by the orlando sun in central florida, they looked at 13 day'ss where "stand your ground" was invoked. in 13 of those... in 12 of those cases the person who was shot by the person invoking "stand your ground" didn't even have a weapon on them. norah i'm a law enforcement democrat. i have a lot of faith in our police and sheriffs. i don't like the move to vigilantism. the bottom line is had mr. zimmerman listened to the police when he called 911 and let them handle it, this would have had a much better outcome. >> do you think there will be hearings on capitol hill. >> i hope so. i think we should examine this law. they're all new. they've been passed very, very quickly. i think the states who pass they, if they find out the real facts may decide to repeal them. >> i want to turn to the future for this country. we just heard from congressman

paul ryan. the republicans have put forward a budget plan. he says he can guarantee that he would not be providing tax cuts to the wealthiest americans and cutting funding for the poor in terms of the cuts that are to medicaid. what's your response to that? >> well, norah, we call paul ryan's budget a smoke and mirrors budget. anyone can say i will cut $2 trillion in taxes. i will cut $5 trillion in spending but then when they say where are they going to make it up? he doesn't say. it's sort of a smoke and mirrors budget. if you don't raids capital gains and dividends which are republican watch words never to raise those, the only way he can make it up is on the backs of the middle class, eliminating and reducing the child tax care credit, the health care deductions that employers pay. and it's such a contrast with democrats. >> right. >> we are going to put on the floor on tax day a proposal by

sheldon whitehouse that would enact the so-called buffet role. those at the top pay 30% regardless of their deductions. the rule is very simple. you should, if you're very wealthy, god bless you, you made a lot of money. we love you in america but let's be fair. you should pay more than your secretary. that will be on the floor april 15 tax day. >> interesting you're going to put that up for a vote in congress. let me just turn to one other section. the ryan plan would repeal the affordable care act on monday the supreme court is begin... will begin debating the legality of that. do you think this is going to be a major issue in this presidential campaign? >> well, i'll tell you something. if mitt romney is the nominee, the issue will be virtually taken off the table. let's remember not only did he propose it in massachusetts. but in 2009 when the health care debate was raging he wrote an op-ed in the usa today and called on the president to adopt it and called on the congress to

adopt it. and the president said that our plan is modeled on the massachusetts plan. so if mitt romney is is the nominee and he tries to bring up health care, it's not going to work. you know, he can run but you can't hide. it will just increase the view that he's the etch a sketch president. >> senator schumer, thank you for joining us. we appreciate it. bob is on vacation this week but before he left he taped a very special message for "face the nation" viewers. we'll have that when we come back. or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's not just good for business, it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities. that's why we extended $6.4 billion in new credit to small businesses across the country last year. because the more we help them, the more we help make opportunity possible.

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here's a chance to create jobs in america. oil sands projects, like kearl, and the keystone pipeline will provide secure and reliable energy to the united states. over the coming years, projects like these could create more than half a million jobs in the us alone. from the canadian border, through the mid west, to the gulf coast. benefiting hundreds of thousands of families throughout the country. this is just what our economy needs right now. >> schieffer: i was looking through old "face the nation" broadcasts the other day. can you guess what with one thing was i said more than any other every the years? well it was a variation of this. mr. vice president, we have to stop it right there. thank you so much. for being with us this morning. >> thank you. >> we have to stop there. sorry, senator reed. i had another question for you but just no time. all right. governor we have to leave it there. thank you for much for joining us.

see you down the line. >> if she did, so what there would be nothing wrong with it. >> our time is up. i'm sorry. we'll be back in a minute. >> schieffer: we have to leave it there, mr. vice president. thank you so much. time's up. senator i would say to the american people, we know we need change. democrats, independents, republicans say we need change. when it comes to paying for college, when it comes to health care.... >> ding. >> ...when it comes to energy give us a chance. >> time's up. >> not a rubber stamp. >> that's a bonus. >> mr. president, our time is up. thank you so much. >> thank you so much. appreciate it, bob. >> schieffer: well all that is changing. next sunday "face the nation" expands to one full hour. we'll try to make the best possible use of it. as always, we hope you'll join us. "face the nation" for one hour starting next sunday. and norah will be back in a moment. hey, did you ever finish last month's invoices?

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>> as bob would say that's all the time we have for today. bob will be back next week with a full hour of "face the nation." i'm norah o'donnell, thanks for watching. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org ,, did you know a park can ,, prevent heart disease?

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