all of a sudden they really don't. that point is a little bit too late, so while it's a terrific book and i just want to remind everybody, ben and jonathan are going to be signing copies of their book at 1215. so we hope you will out and join them for that. and appreciate everyone being here of applause for a moderator, wasn't she really. jon parrish peede is a board member for the mississippi book festival. the visiting writer in residence at mississippi valley state university and the former chairman of the national endowment for the humanities, where he was awarded. where he awarded 500 million in grants to cultural universities. scholars for seven years.

he directed the nea operation homecoming, writing the wartime experience program, taught therapeutic writing workshops for u.s. troops during their deployment on domestic bases and in military. he has published in humanities inside of higher education and the wall street journal and other. he has co-edited an essay on flannery o'connor. hello, so glad you're here. it is my distinct honor to introduce and to interview jeff shaara his new book which on notice signing is at 3:00 and i think you'll to be there after you hear this and. and jeff is well known to us. he's signed many of his books here, the state he's the author of more than 15 york times bestseller. as you certainly would know, gods and generals, other books that to mind the last full

measure and of course his new historical the old line about teddy roosevelt and rather than read this standard bio i thought i would tell a story. so jeff, i have known each other for about years when. we were younger. let's say, and project that was just mentioned to government project operation where we worked with our troops in afghanistan and iraq as they were rotating in and out of the war, helping them share stories, helping them in many ways unburden their experiences and then domestically with military families and some our war two veterans, shelby foote recorded statements, in fact, as the last interview with shelby foote's life. the recording for that project jeff we went to alaska, colorado, and at one point we found ourselves in bahrain, in

the persian gulf on, an aircraft carrier. and we took a hilo tour destroyer, uss mustin, i believe it would have been. and he was teaching, writing and know how limited it is, what you can take on a vessel in a war zone for half a year deployment and. one of the sailors had in his duffle a beat up paperback of one of jeff's books. now think of all the possessions you can bring pictures of family, what have you. he brought one of jeff's books and he was a little shy. it was tattered, was dog eared. the cover was a little bit detached. and and he got up his courage to say, you know, mr. shiro, will you will you sign this for me? and jeff, who's so warm, always to his audience? he went to sign it. now, here's the only unfortunate thing i know about this gentleman. he's left handed. so he went to sign it. that cover went flying all over. so fair warning. i know we're probably selling

paperbacks. just fair warning in and the vigor of his signing but we we see the public face of somebody and we don't always know what what they gave back and that was it that whole experience was pretty complicated. you know, it was a tough time. the people he was serving as a writer were going through some tough things. so i wanted to give you that introduction about jeff shaara not the right or but the man and that's a good to pivot to you now lives gettysburg, pennsylvania within the footprint your house within the footprint of that, uh, national all sacred space really. tell us about while that's particularly special between you and your father. well, my father took us kids his family to gettysburg.

i was 12, and we went there as tourists, like, you know, 2 million people a year do. and he went there with no agenda, he was not a historian. he had not done much research. he'd done some reading. and we got to gettysburg. and my father was for all his life a storyteller. and he was a good and he knew a good story when he saw one walking the battlefield at gettysburg. and and he became obsessed telling that story and totally that that would happen to him. the obsession lasted seven years. it him seven years to write a manuscript based on the battle of gettysburg and it was called the killer angels and i when people nod their heads every when i say the title of the book he tried to sell this in new york. i'll think about the early seven days, which is when he was trying to sell this book. what else is going in this country? the end of the vietnam war?

absolutely no. wants to read a book about generals, which is about what the killer angels is. that was a bitter disappointment. my father, he went through 15 publishers until he finally got the small independent publishing house, the david mackay company, who was going out of business and reluctantly agreed to publish killer angels. there were 3500 copies published. that was it. and so there actually first editions are very rare today. they're collector's items. the book comes out to no great commercial success and yet year later, in 1975, the book comes out in 74, which, by the way, next year is the 50th anniversary of the killer angels. we're doing some things around that, but the book comes out 74, does nothing commercially, and the following we get a real surprise because a telegram comes to my father's house congratulations. the killer has won the pulitzer

prize for fiction. now that was a surprise. everybody especially, especially people, had no interest in the book. and still the book was not commercially. and he went. in fact, people often ask what other historical works did your father write? the answer is none. oh, he went on to do a sort of a hitchcock sci fi story that did nothing and. he wrote a baseball story, which i can talk about little later, but he did nothing else. and in 1988, he his second heart attack and passed away in his sleep. he was only 59 years old, five years later, ted puts up the money. the movie gettysburg comes out based on the killer angels. the killer angels becomes, a number one bestseller, five years after my father's death. those are the footsteps walking in. had it not been for his early demise, i never would have a

writer because it was ted turner who came to me and said, wouldn't it be great to take, you know, go in both directions, do more stories like your father's go before and after gettysburg? the before became my first book, which was gods and generals. so my tie to gettysburg pretty significant. and now that i live there and you know, my wife is, a native born and raised in gettysburg, the tie, the full circle, plenty of sense and. you know, it's a wonderful place to be the home we live in is on the battlefield my attic is my office and head out the window of my attic. i have a perfect view of the round tops i can see little round top. my window right across the field will pick its to place. it's a pretty special place of so we don't forget it you when your your dad's estate and going through his files that.

i don't know if you call it a novel or a novella that manuscript that baseball manuscript. don't you give him a quick oh, yeah. my father had written a baseball story, as i said, and he had given up on it. he couldn't sell it then publishers wouldn't buy after his death. my and i, going through his effects, found a manuscript. there was one manuscript that was all. he could very well have thrown it away. i took it to new york. baseball had gotten hot and so the book was published and it was called for love of the game. and universal pictures jumped all over. kevin costner jumped all over it. the movie was made in 1999. some of you maybe it may have seen for love of the game, kevin costner and kelly preston are the movies on cable all the time and most people don't realize that movie is based on the book by michael scherer twice movies have come out based on his books that he didn't live to see. and i'm in the movie, by the way

i got my one second claim to fame. so so on hulu or wherever freeze frame it and. now we talked about his work in it and again is, teddy roosevelt, which we're going to get to and the incredible amount of writing done around the american civil war, world war two, the american revolution, mexican war. we were just the mexican war and his korean war books are just remarkable, remarkable books. and particularly the stories we don't necessarily know. i'll pair that to where we are as a country. terms of our high school and middle schools and junior high. so there's something called the nepa. the nation's report card is a shorthand and we just had the back this year for eighth graders across the nation. so only 22% of eighth graders

are even proficient in civics. only 14% are proficient in u.s. history. we're approaching in 2026. the 250th year anniversary for the simi quincentennial of america's founding. and we're going to get that level of knowledge just through history books. we are going to need our novels, even our hollywood or our musicians. we're going to need everyone but to the young. what would you say? what would you want them to know about teddy roosevelt? well, first of all right, off the bat, the easy one is he was president of the united states. i mean, you a lot of people, they don't if it didn't this is i've heard this said about people in hollywood if it didn't in their lifetime, it didn't happen. and think there may be some of that when you talk about young people that they just have no reason to think back no reason

to learn who the presidents were no reason to pay to the important ones. there were a lot of unimportant ones, but ones who did things that changed our world it changed what we're living today. and roosevelt certainly is one of those the mean response of all, for things like the national forest service responsible for you know the national parks as we know them today. i mean, without roosevelt, a lot that land or yellowstone or yosemite, on and on and on would have been developed. there were people actively trying to run railroads through these places, and there was one congress men in particular a fellow from something in the midwest somewhere who his nickname sam was not $0.01 for scenery, you know, that's what roosevelt was up against. and he provided us scenery and he provided great deal of it and many you know the panama canal wood which roosevelt himself admitted had been up to congress to do the panama, it would have

taken 50 years. and roosevelt did it in three. and i could, you know, just keep on listing. i don't want to get involved, bogged down so much in roosevelt's presidency because as interesting as that is and it is interesting and he accomplished extraordinary number things fighting for the little man i mean fighting for the the common worker against corporate the the the sort of the evil, you know, corporate empires. i mean, he was responsible for knocking down a lot of that for forming what become a lot of unions to fight against corporate abuse. i mean, he did all of this stuff and that's his presidency. and to get back to your question, people need to know this. a lot of the good that we in our society today came from that period of time in our history, the first decade of the 20th century. and was, you know, because of teddy roosevelt, the the other

we think of teddy roosevelt. and then that strong way, the man in the arena and, the way he stood up to all those special interest groups, i think people are surprised. i, i feel well informed. but his support for suffrage was was way out of character in the universities. i think people know. but as the general public, we a lot of us weren't told that he had booker t washington dinner at the white house which president wilson certainly wouldn't allow there. there are so many ways that he ahead of his time. yeah i mean it'd be easy for me to sit up here basically and read you a synopsis of the book. yeah. and my wife always gets on me. don't do that, because then people have no reason to buy the book. but in fact i mean, you know he he booker t washington the first

african american to dinner in the white house ever. i mean lincoln had african-american visiting the white house and frederick douglass and so forth. but terry teddy was the first man to actually have dinner with one in the white house and boy, did that cause a stink. i mean, newspapers attacked him for that, particularly in the south in memphis, there was a paper that said respectable southern woman will ever set foot in the white house again. you know, and on and on and on. i mean, there was there was a lot of that suffrage he supported woman's right to vote decades before actually came to pass. and again that was an stab in the people's you know, why do women need the right to things are going along just fine the way they have you know since you know the 1780s. well he decided no that's not

fine women deserve the right to vote when that was a very unpopular stance. so again i could go through, you know, all the minutia, if you will, of his life and, his presidency. but there's so much more to this character and all our, so you don't have to repeat it. i'll note, since we're in mississippi, i'll note, of course, that the bear story is in here and we know that one. but you also remind us the connection that when the african. postmistress in 1903 in indianola was pressured and forced, the people said won't accept her being there. he closed the post office than let that stand. and rhea pointed her in the end it was too dangerous, and she did not stay in that role. she did open of the first african american banks in the

state of mississippi. what i like is that you don't focus on the presidency so much as. you tell us about the dakota territory in the bad lands. well, and tell us about that focus. well, first of all, i have to correct you on one thing that i don't don't tell you about it. teddy tells you about it. yeah. the whole point of this is for me to take you with me and put you at his bedside and let him tell you the story. and that's the way this book is written. but the dakotas, in the 1880s, he goes on a hunting trip. you know, he was he's a big and he goes out and he's he wants to kill a buffalo. that's his motivation for going out there. what he finds when he gets the dakota territory. first of all, there aren't very many buffalo left, which is a disappointment. but then he also finds cattle ranching and he gets really excited about raising cattle and he loves the land there, the badlands and what is today north

dakota and he meets some people and some of them not so nice, but he gets that was one of the things about teddy i think you can talk in his whole life is a lot of what he does and what he accomplishes is simply because he gets excited and he wants to do something for himself, you know, even against advice. to the contrary, he does it anyway. so he he puts down a bunch of money, he buys a bunch of cattle, he hires some people. and he becomes just like a cattle rancher in the dakotas. and he goes back to new york and goes back and but that experi and some of the things that happened to him out are certainly this book, because there and that's the one word i have to use to describe from the writer's point of view, from being able to tell his story. fun. i what happens to him, you know, it's entertaining was entertaining to me. and i certainly hope as a as a

result of that, it's entertaining to you and the other is we in way he was received when he got to the badlands he's he's a harvard educated a fluent he wears glasses. i had no idea wearing glasses was such an offense of how you establish those often friendships. well i think first of all he brings respect with and people know of and know of his name. but he very quickly because he doesn't try to run the show he concedes he doesn't know what he's and so he hires people do and he respects them and so it becomes mutual. and then as time goes by, i mean he's there for three or four years and as time goes by his sacrifice the things that he does, some of the stories in this book, some of the things that happened to and by the way, you mentioned is when he first steps off the train, first time in the middle of the night in the dakota, he was wearing

glasses. i mean, because he has to wear glasses, he can't see and he gets told immediately, by the way nobody out here wears glasses. so you can expect from now on everybody's going to call you for eyes and they do and so everywhere he goes, he's known as four eyes and he just accepts it and just that's just the way it is and he keeps their spare in the room of his hat so he always he's never you know, you wonder why if a guy has one pair of glasses he's riding a horse. there's a good that the glasses are going to or in a stampede head of cattle, which he's in. so he's always he's always got spares. he's four eyes and he and he accepts that with humility and he accepts all of with humility. and i think that's what makes him as popular as he is out there to the people that work for him and that brings it to the idea of his story fiction. and sometimes people think a

writer's leaning on the word fiction. you're always leaning on the word historical. i mean, talk to us about. the matter of research, the accuracy yeah i had a very well known historian say to me one time, you know, you're writing fiction, you could write anything you want. you know, can you can create your own history and fudge things and do all of that. well, that may be true for most people that write historical fiction. it's not true for me i do an enormous amount research mainly to get facts straight, get it right. you know, i make huge amounts of notes, which i prefer during the writing. you know, what happened when it happened? who would happened to who was there, who was not there? that's so important. when i began to hear from teacher high school teachers, particularly, who were my books in their classroom, what that did is i mean, first of all, i was shocked because these are novels, you know you're teaching history with a novel and what i

heard was, first of all, they said, you, we trust that the history is accurate. but the other part of it is, if can give the student a character to to somebody, they can get into, they don't even realize they're learning the history. you know, they're they're learning the character well. so that's been extremely flattering but that also added to the responsibility feel to get it right you know they don't play around with history, play games, you know, everything role in this book particularly everything everything happened the way it's written these are novels definition. i mean there's fiction. the fiction is the dialog because there, you know, no one will ever know exactly the conversation was between teddy roosevelt and his wife in a certain situation, it just we'll never know. that's my job is to fill in those blanks. but if i'm doing my job, if i'm doing it right, it's seamless. you know, that you're reading about the events as they happened and the history as it

happened. but you're there, you're hearing it the way it happened between the characters and that's what that's i try to do in every book i've done. i also think the part that the reason you have such a large audience is these are very accessible novels in the sense of we can read them, we can understand them, they're not written in academic ways, but at the same time very precise in your language. you mention a quarter boy road. and of course, my mind's thinking. i don't think he means the jacket. you know, i found myself looking it up and remind me so you have that level of nuance to to make sure that it did so precise. but at the same time, you're releasing a book more or less every year, not just about the the division between researching it, writing. what's the structure of you getting to? well, first of all, address the

first thing you said. i love putting in tidbits. and that's where historian's that's for the people who know you know, every blade of grass and, every thing that happened. so i love putting little things just to let them know i've done homework. and this came about because in gods and generals in my first book, i made a mistake like i made a mistake on color of the plume and jeb stuart's hat who knew. and boy did i hear about it you know, i said it was a white plume. it was black and i got letters. so from now on now, if i'm going to talk about something as minuscule as that it's going to be right. and that way the historians will know that i'm doing you know, i'm doing it the way. but i'm what's the other part of the act? i get to get passionate about that. i don't remember the question. that was the answer about the dialog. now, you know, we know you're

using diaries and other things for, various books. but you we believe the dialog that you're having to create because of all the effort you just talked about. there's a really powerful moment where teddy roosevelt's moving through these stages is when he is president and he can no longer interact the level you wanted to with the dakotas and. yet this beautiful line is with the ferris brothers, and they say, you outgrew us. and and now wouldn't call is certainly not melancholy book. and i wouldn't even necessarily say it's a sad book, but the framing of it is about sacrifice and, a loss, and that that comes up with war. one, you want to talk about how you framed this book? well, you know, as you're going through that, first of all, the dakotas and you get to the spanish-american war, which, of course, is what most people know about teddy roosevelt, a san juan hill and all of that.

so you go through that part of it, which is certainly the governor of new york and then on through his presidency, the scene you're referring to, i want to mention that because he's president of the united states, he goes on a tour, his train, and he's got this elaborate rail car all fixed up for him and the trains going all over place. and he's giving little speeches everywhere and it's just kind of about back slapping, sort of a handshaking of a tour. and he goes to the dakotas. and by the dakotas, you know, this is 20 years after he's been out there as a cattle rancher and two of the people that had worked him come to see him and he spots them and they come and he invites them to come aboard the railcar. he's excited, see them and they come. of course, they're all struck by what they're at. and he's given them the tour of the railcar and they sit down and he's nice, plush, comfortable chairs and starts talking to them and they say, you know, we your old horse, you know, he alive.

we have him. we thought you might to go for a ride with us. and he says, well, you know, i'm really can't do that. i'm president of the united states. and that, you know, the security people, they're not going to really let me do that. so they're oh, okay. well, so they're sitting around talking, but they're not talking very much because they realize they have nothing in common. and these are people who meant, more to him than anybody on earth, when know 20 years prior and what the line you're referring is is they they feel like he's outgrown them because he is kept on going and they're doing the same thing they were doing 20 years ago. it's it is bittersweet. i mean, there was a bittersweet moment about the other i think the thing you're referring to is roosevelt, when he's in, which is, by the way, san juan hill is cuba. it's not puerto rico. a lot of people know that when he's in cuba, he makes a point of mentioning that if he's

killed in combat, there's no better to go. you know, i mean, it's that that's the way every man should go, you know, and on with his honor, so forth, that being killed in combat would be okay with him. well, world war one comes along, 20 year old, 18 years later, he wants his son, all four sons, to enlist and to volunteer, to go fight. and they do. and one son, clinton, becomes a pilot and clinton is shot and killed and i think july of 1918, just before war ends and that moment is devasted. 82, teddy and, his wife, both they never recover from that. in some ways, it pushes teddy toward the end of his own life, which is a contradiction, because you would think, you know, he he wants his sons to you go out in a blaze of glory. and then when that happens he's crushed by it.

so, again, that's growth i think, you know, the realization that your children mean more to you than just you know having them do glorious things the you do a remarkable it does in this novel about kind of giving us the domestic life including the grief after the death of his first wife. i'm tempted to about him as an explorer and the expedition, if you don't mind. well, he you know he wants to explore everywhere he goes to africa a safari, which i don't get deeply into. the more important is when he goes the amazon, the river of the of doubt is his river is called. he goes on an expedition. some brazilian explorer soldiers. the idea is there's this river. they know where the source of the river is. they no idea where it goes. they don't if it ends up at the

amazon or if it just kind of goes out in the woods somewhere and they want to find out. so he gets involved in this expert mission and it's a big thing. i mean, there's all kinds of there are indian workers, the natives that help them out their canoes, the supply is enormous amount of supplies. and it very quickly becomes obvious that this is unwieldy and isn't going to happen very well. and the further they go, they start running into rapids serious rapids, things that wreck the canoes, that dump the supplies in the water and they have to stop, build new canoes. i mean, this becomes a major expedition, a major undertaking that they didn't really expect. roosevelt is sick. he's getting sicker by the day he has no business at his age being on this expedition. well, he's in his mid-fifties and he's ailing. he was ailing before the thing started. and he no business being on this

expedition and it nearly him and the way the way this turns out and they do eventually i mean obviously he survives but the way that they find where the river goes and it's a joyful success yes but it kind taught him a lesson that okay really can't be doing this kind thing anymore and that's hard for him to accept. i want to we might come back to ted roosevelt if you want to, but how do you you had the civil war and how do you decide what you're going to move to? what what's your line of thinking do you think in series? do you think in the next book. well, i do. i've done several series. so that makes it easy. i mean, once i figure out where a series is going start, then i know, you know, if i'm doing a trilogy or i, a two book set on the war in the pacific, pearl

harbor and midway well, that was pretty easy i mean, i know where i'm going with that the hard part was not doing a third book which would have been guadalcanal and the fourth book, which would have been iwo jima. and i had a lot of people give me grief for that because they wanted more the story. but i had a publisher that said, well, no, we're that's good. we're done with that. so i had to come up with something else. but, you know, it's hard sometimes i agonize over topics and i think every writer should. i mean, if something's, you know, it shouldn't come to anybody because if it ever becomes easy, it's not going to be very good. so it's a it's a challenge to find what i want to write about. and then once i find it i have to get a whole hog jump in with both feet, get the research, do as much reading as i possibly can, go to the ground if i can walk the ground, that's the lesson i from my father at

gettysburg. if you want to write any of these stories, go and you'll get out of that. you know, i didn't go to the river of doubt and. brazil thinks it's not a wise thing. and there's one other place i didn't go, which i'm embarrassed to admit i did a book on the korean war on the chosen reservoir. the marines are chosen. it's a tough story. it might be my best book. it won three awards, including from the marine corps, which i'm very proud of. but i want it to go to chosen i wanted to see the reservoir. and then i found out in ignorance that the chosen reservoir is in north korea. i actually had a guy from the state department say to me, we can get you in. there was no more that sentence. and so my wife weighed in on that one and said, no, you're not to north korea.

but i mean, that's that's a big part of it is, you know, see it feel it walk the ground and i try to do that in every book i've done. the research is key. the research is, the biggest part of it, it takes longer to the research than it does to write the manuscript. i can write a manuscript typically in about five months, and that's every day. i mean, that's full time. and seven days. i lose track of what day of the week it is. i mean, it's and that involved i'm in it with both feet but it's you know i'm fortunate that i can do this full time a lot of writers cannot full time. my father had to at florida state to make a living because he couldn't make a living from his writing. so i've been very fortunate about that and i don't take it for granted in terms of those sites you went to, that includes vicksburg. yes oh, yes, absolutely. yeah. yeah.

the the other part that's different is the first person's and one character are talking to this book, one to compare this this was a challenge because in every book i've done, there are different points of view usually three to 4 to 5 characters. you go back forth from each point of view and moves you through the timeline, and that's the way i've done almost book. this was very different because there's one character, there's one voice, and you're with him, you're with him at the end of his life. you're with him. he refers back to all these different events in his life and your in his memory, with his memory, that's different for me. i've never done that before. i hope it works. earlier we talked about your father writing for love the game that brings mind.

you have your your storyteller a deeply gifted storyteller. and so take that that it's about baseball. it makes me think. have you ever thought about i'll write about babe ruth or jesse owens or jim thorpe, the idea that you're going to tell life of an iconic. we've we've agonized my publisher and i'm an editor and i've sat in debated this for hours trying figure out who would be another good to write about and. they're all kinds of names but none of them are teddy, you know, none of them have the kind of story that he has. now, i will tell that my next book, which will come out next may, we just put it to bed. it's finished editing. it's called the it's called the shadow of war and it's on the cuban missile crisis. and well, thank you for that. i've this i've spoken to a number audiences and i mentioned what the book is about and i

test to see what your response is and if if because if your initial response you're in sort of instinctive responses. oh, then i got a problem with it. but no, the positive groan is a good thing. thank you for that. but that'll be out next may and that's a story that talk about what you began to talk about young students i mean those of us of a certain and there's some of you you know here in this know exactly what the cuban crisis was like and what we went through and you remember duck and cover and all of that. and young people have no and they need to because that's as close as we ever came to nuclear holocaust and it's an important story. i'm very happy with that. that'll be our we're talking about some other ideas. i don't want to get in to that too much, but i'm you know, i'm always looking for ideas. one thing i'm i'm getting away

from is the war story. the pure war story, which is one reason i didn't do guadalcanal. and iwo jima is try something different. you know, i've done this is my this is my 19th book. it, you know, for me, it's i don't want to ever become formulaic, you know, and you do a war story and it's sort of the buddy gets killed and, you know, i mean, you can sort do it by blueprint and i don't ever want to do that. that's one reason i'm accepting the challenge to do some of these other stories. the other part, when you moved in the war war to and certainly with korea and certainly the new book, you're in a different area because you have living participants. you know, one from the revolution is going to come back and challenge the civil. talk about how that worked when you started writing books about

living veterans. yeah, i had i'll specifically mention korea i had a veteran friend of my wife's family sit in my living room. he was a marine that the chosen reservoir. he was a machine gunner and he talked about freezing cold was 40 below zero. he talked about having his sleeping bag pulled up around his chest as he's firing his machine gun. and he told me, he would, you know, tell me anything. answer question i had except don't ask me about my friends. there are enough, you know, he wouldn't talk about the guy next to him, what might have happened, but he told me all kinds of things. told me about when he got frostbite. he suffered. i mean, the end of his life he limped because of the frost bite he got that the chosen reservoir and he said they stack them up, the wounded, they stack them up when they're getting ready to evacuate them. and they wrap their feet in the only thing they had, which was straw that the doctors had the foresight gather up rice straw

as they were going up up the hill up to chosun. and so they had this straw to wrap their feet in. that's all they could to try to protect them, help the frostbite. that's just one example. i mean, told me a lot of things that are in the book and his name is, eugene pete sanders people and i asked him why he got called pete and he wouldn't tell me because it had something to do with being about five years old and you know, leave at that. but i had the first copy of the book came out the frozen ours is the book. the first copy. the book came out. i have a photograph and he was at the vfw hall and i was giving him the first copy of the book and months later, he passed away. and that was really tough for my family. well, that's one example of respect. you know, that's one thing i talked before about getting it. right. and, you know, don't play games, history, part of it when you've got veterans is respect them and

tell their story the right way, tell their story the way they would appreciate it. so that was the difference in having living veterans and i talk world war two. i had i some living people i had an example of our fellow who was in the 42nd infantry division the rainbow and they freed or went up to liberated the order of camp and what his experiences. i have his his journal and actually some photographs and that allowed me to write that chapter with absolute authentic i mean this is what these young guys you know 18 year old kid with the m1 walks up to the fence at this camp. they don't know what they're going to see and what they see becomes part of the story and it's authentic. this guy was there that there's nothing there's no substitute for. and you know one of the

advantages of going back to the cuban missile crisis story is i can write with some author authenticity because i was there, you know, and that's the first time that's happened, the you know, when i introduced i talked about were you the workshops that you were doing with the troops. and again, we were on domestic bases. you know. you know, in the persian gulf during the during the war and in military families were also present, too. and you gave tips and and, of course, is paired up a mutual friend, the actor stephen lang who was in a star guard, got us in general and y'all know him from avatar as the colonel of do you? we have so many kind of self published writers here, people that inspired tell their family story? maybe if it's, you know, just for their own family members,

what do you have to say to somebody wants to get their story unlocked. you know that personal story. yeah. what i would my function in operation homecoming to lead writing workshops and we were from fort richardson and elmendorf force base in alaska fort carson in colorado, the quantico. and then i was at the persian gulf on the vinson aircraft carrier in the most guided missile destroyer. what an experience. and i mean, this is active duty. i mean, we're in a we're in a war zone. and my job was to convince these young people to tell their story and give some hints of how to do that. and not all of them were young. actually, a lot of officers, you know, the senior people, one of i mean, that's one most gratifying things i've done in my career was to meet some of these people and see the job that they're doing. but what i tried to people is if

you want to do this, you want to tell your story. and i don't care what. your stories about the topic doesn't they can be about your grandfather or your dog, your next door neighbor. i mean, it makes no difference. but you have to have a passion for telling that story because if you if you don't have the passion for writing the story, why would anybody else want to read it? why would anybody else care? so that's the first thing is that write something you don't write because you think this is what other people are going to want to read. that's the wrong way to go it, right? because it's a story you want to tell. and, you know, you want to tell it and you're excited about it might end up being a pretty good story. don't worry about whether or you can write. i get that all the time is people. how do i that i can write you don't you just you know i had clue you know you sit and write just write the story. somebody else figure out if you're a writer or not, you

know, take me there. there's an old an adage they teach in journalism class, show it, don't tell it. well, it applies to writing you know anything show take me with you you know if you're going to tell me about or talk about your grandfather if you're going to tell me about your grandfather take me there, don't just tell me about him. don't tell me what kind of guy he is. take me there. should sit me down with him and, you know, have conversation, you know it. don't tell it. i mean and on i mean i could do a lot of this sounds cliche and i realize that but it applies and if you want to be a writer just do it. and my father used to teach writing at florida state as i said, and he would teach his students the basic method. if you want to be a writer, you have to employ basic method. but in chair, it's not going to

happen if you don't put your -- in the chair. within 10 minutes you return to the audience. sure. so we have about 10 minutes and we're going to give that time to the audience, to the microphone. please have a question, not a speech, because he's going to yield last 2 minutes to you. so if somebody has a question, if not, i'll ask few more for our last few minutes. when i want to relax. i read your books. who do you read like? thank you. who do you read? who do you read for enjoyment? well, first of all, it's surprise is people to hear. i don't read fiction, but and there's a reason for that i am scared to death of being accused of plagiarism. if i read your novel and one line of your dialog sticks in my

head and comes out in story by accident. that's the pure definition and of any accusation it and these days it's easy. you can go online and type a line of dialog and find out whose book it was in. i mean, it's easy to be accused of that and i'm i'm i know doris kearns goodwin really you know i what she went through i know what stephen ambrose went through it's you no fault of their own. things just happened and. you know, i'm scared to death of that because it could cost me my career. so that's that's reason why i don't read fiction. books. these are discovering the research papers. yeah i find. for a lot of the principles that people are well principle i don't know if you could hear the question what principles or what things can i apply from the

research and teddy roosevelt's life. i don't know that i could ever be like teddy roosevelt. don't know that anybody could ever be like teddy roosevelt. but i mean, just hold the line my for just be open to anything. now, that's not always practical. but certainly he was meant to fault. he was open to experience and live beyond yourself, you know, live for live to do good. lived the leave something behind. i have desperately tried to do that in my i didn't start out that way at all but i at what i've written and i think well it's probably going to outlive me, you know, hopefully 100 years from now, maybe somebody, you know, one of your great grandkid will be reading one of my books. i mean, what an incredible thing that is. so that's that's the way i like to look at it. the other thing i really like about this book and i did not know about teddy roosevelt

didn't have the frame is his life story doesn't not only can not be told without his two wives but this is a story where the domestic really matters. his relationship with his kids particularly his daughter this this really comes through. how did you decide you probably have given more to the family life than the presidency, which i think is a reader readers. absolutely the right idea. how do you decide the proportion when you a life so large? it's i mean, it's chronological and you know you have to you're covering an enormous amount of history. and as it happens and i mean the death of his first wife, which is to me the the second most difficult part of this to write and to read to me is the death of his first wife and. what that how that happens. and what it means to him and how it continues to affect for the rest of his life.

he'll never speak of her. it's it's just there. i mean, it's it's an episode that happens. it occurs and then he but he has to go on with his life and and the other hardest part of the of writing this book and i'll just say this was the end because he was i was done and i didn't want to be done. but that's just the way the story goes. and so that's my job, is just to take you through the timeline and follow each episode or each part of his life as. it happens, sir, you mentioned, of course, after the death, the first wife. you never talked to her again. was you very expressive after death of clinton by that of at this stage of his life, was he more expressive of grief. no, i couldn't hear all what you said. if you ask, is was more expressive after the. right.

i mean i know you said after the death of his first wife, he never spoke of her again, right by time clinton died, was he more expressive of his grief at that stage of life? i so because first of all, he was the end of his own life. and i think, you know, his own mortality sort of staring him in the face. and also, edith, he had edith and, you know, she was a very different person than alice was. and their relationship was very different. i mean, his first relationship with alice with his first wife was very storybook i mean, very romance. and and stars going off and, you know, all this this kind of stuff where edith was the mother of his children and so his attitude was very different but i think he was ailing. he was so sick and failing health at the time of, clinton's death that it was it was just a part, everything that was going on. so is a very different

experience. his reaction to it was very different will take maybe one more question audience, but please use the microphones so that the c-span audience can hear and others in room. so there's a microphone at, the podium, if anybody has a question. you talked about stepping foot on various places before writing about them. did you go to cuba at san juan hill? no. there are some limitations and tell you about a couple? i mean, that was one going to cuba to be a tourist these days. it's easier than it was 20 years ago. but no, i did not do that. the other one i didn't do, i wrote a trilogy on world war two in europe, the first one is called the rising tide and it's north africa. and i wanted to go in the warsaw way to the libyan desert because as in the libyan desert, all of,

you know, rommel and montgomery, all the british and stuff is still there. it's the desert nothing happens to it. so i thought, how cool would that be to go see all the tanks and have and all this stuff and again, the state department who is the bane of my existence, the state department? well, we really don't think you can to, you know, one of the big cities in tripoli and and be a tourist. but we really don't want americans wandering in the libyan desert by themselves and i had to sort of take that to heart and accept their advice. so there are some places i can't, but when passable when it's reasonable i say i definitely go it. i'm not surprised at all that at the national for the arts we were able to get them to some places. in a way, the state department just photo for the record let's we'll maybe end with this any

last comments you have we talked about you were in this historic house in gettysburg you're not just a writer of history you talk about. historic preservation historic mean a great deal to you i. i just wonder if you want to talk to us about the idea of preserving history. yeah, well, i'm. i was on the board of the american battlefield trust for six years and learned lot about battlefield preservation and historic preservation in general. i mean, i bought a old victorian house that was in horrible condition. and my wife and i, we restored it. we fixed it up. so, i mean, i appreciate what goes into, but as far as battlefields mean, as has been said so many times, once they're gone, they're gone and, you know, once you build a strip mall across, you know wherever you're not going to get it back.

and so i very strongly believe in that. i very strongly supported it. i put my money where my mouth is and i would implore of you to take at least some interest in preserving, you know, what we have, because we have of it now than we had ten years ago and less of it than ten years before that. and it's ongoing. so that's that's my commercial is i strongly, strongly hope that you would support battlefield preservation historical preservation of any kind kind. that's a great note to end on. i'll say that the mississippi everyday citizens and nonprofit government really are committed to that end and, i hope at 3:00 that we'll see in the signing and of my my friend. thank you, sir. this is a remarkable book by an incredible human being. so thank you. thank