things that got him in trouble and stand up and explain it. and look you in the eye and say, this is why i'm doing it he believed it beale, john mccain was known as the maverick. joel lieber was kind of a maverick. he was not afraid of going outside of orthodoxy and taking heat for it and taking flack for it. but he kept most of his friends, which is interesting, even the friends who are mad at him are you with mccain? why did you go to no labels? he kept most of them which tells you something about the man more than a politician. >> yeah >> his i mean, in terms of politics, is there one? like event you think he will be most from, i the vice president is his the history-making as the vice presidential candidate and also the big divide in the country and the democratic party, he supported the surge in iraq and thought it was the right policy. and of course, you don't. barack obama became president because axelrod ran a great campaign. obama was a great candidate, but also because the country was so mad about the iraq war he was on the side that people were mad about john king. thank you so much. they've actually rod as well. the news continues source with kaitlan collins starts now

see tomorrow state from the source tonight, breaking news out of >> baltimore were moments ago, the ntsb revealed what's been discovered on a newly obtained data recorder from that dude cargo ship. and 764 tons of hazardous material that was on board when it crashed into that bridge. also tonight there was a new litmus test apparently to get a job at the new trump run, republican national committee. wrong answers only apparently to this question was the 2020 election section stolen? it wasn't. but also just in speaking of the 2020 election, the chief architect of that plot to keep trump in power is tonight facing a major you're reckoning and screens and teens are smartphones and social media dooming a generation. a guest tonight who has studied the science says yes, and to take them all the way until high school, i'm kaitlan collins, and this is the source

but we start with the breaking news tonight as we have just heard from the ntsb, with new information on its investigation of the collapse of baltimore's francis scott key bridge details on the data recorder that was obtained from that 200 million-pound cargo ship officials say there are six hours of recordings and numerous alarms can be heard as they laid out a timeline of what happened, including this 01:26 a.m. the ship's pilot ask nearly for those tugboats that were nearby that had been helping the ship to come back for help? then ordered for the anchor to be dropped because the ship had lost all power by that point. all of this happening just moments before that big crash. we're going to piece together this timeline and what it could mean as its investigation is very much still underway this comes today as we also learned that in that pitch black water and those dangerously frigid temperatures

and high tides with mangled metal all around them divers late today, discovered the two bodies of six of the six missing people two of the six of those construction workers who were just doing their jobs on the key bridge when this design esther struck. one was identified by a driver's license in his pocket. the other by a single fingerprint we'll talk more about the victims here in a moment. but on that breaking news, cnn's pete muntean joins us, was at that ntsb news conference that just wrapped a moment ago, pete tel moos, the highlights as this investigation is going on we're getting so many briefings a day. what did they just tell us? >> a moment ago >> national transportation safety board chair jennifer homendy described a sad tale, a boat completely out of control helpless with no hope, careening toward the key bridge. what is really interesting is that investigators now have the voyage data recorder and they were able to give us a tiktok,

a blow by blow of what was going on on the ship at left port at about 01:24 sorry, left left port earlier than 124 about 01:06 in the morning, but at 01:24, 59 numerous alarms lit up on the bridge of the ship that is when the crew on the bridge of the ship called for the tugboats that pulled it out of the secret port there in the port of baltimore to come back, they reported multiple power failures and they describe about four minutes and 30 seconds of terror. this boat essentially out of of control, veering off of the channel in the center of the potassium sco river and toward one of these main pilings of the key bridge. what is also really critical here and underscored by ntsb chair jennifer homendy, is that this bridge is fracture critical, meaning that of the three spans of the bridge, if one of them the pilings comes down all of the bridge comes down all of the domino's comes

down, and she says that is especially concerning considering the fact that these bridges are in many places across the country. and this ship was 95,000 tons, about the weight of an aircraft carrier, about the length of the empire state building, it is also really critical to point out here that the voyage data recorder only recorded very few parameters. it's not like a commercial airliners, she says with a different points, they have only about five different points of data, including the frantic calls on the bridge of the ship to clear the bridge and get cars off of it, they say today, according to governor wes moore, that those actions were harrak, pete muntean. thank you for that update from baltimore. and we also have here with us tonight, the baltimore fire chief james wallace and chief, it's great to have you here. i know this this investigation is very much still underway, and as pete was saying, there's only so much they can get from that voyage data recorder talking about how it's also hard to hear because

there are so many sirens and alarms going off. >> but on the >> investigation itself and how it's shifted today from this recovery mode to a salvage operation. what does the current state of this investigation look like? >> so in good evening, caitlin. thank you for having me. so some of pro a fire department perspective, as you've heard over and you've spoken about naturally, we're still very cognizant of the fact that there are hazardous materials on board the vessel itself from a dive team perspective our team stood down this factor noon after being involved in over a dozen divs, just over the past two days >> we're at a point right now >> where we believe that we've searched all areas underwater that are safe for divers to search now we're moving towards an operation where some salvage is going to need to happen >> a >> lot of underwater debris is

going to need to be removed. and the bottom, if you will, of the collapse own stabilized for divers can re-enter the water for any other purposes. so a lot of instability on the on the crash scene and something that we're going to have to really be attentive to over the next few days. >> what's your sense of if you have one even at this point of how long it would take to clear that debris in order for the divers to be able to go back safely to those areas? >> my sense it's gonna be a couple of days where we're very fortunate and secretary buttigieg was out there with us yesterday and promised anything that we would need it as well as our governor senator van hollen carden and our mayor and we've not had to ask for anything yet people are coming to us agencies are rallying around us at the state and federal level. and we have all the help that we need right now

and things are moving very quickly. >> my >> sense is it's going to take a few days. i think the corps of engineers as well as the coast guard and some other structural engineers need to conduct a good thorough assessment of the incident seen a both above and below water, but especially up on the bow of the boat, up on the deck, there's a lot of bridge structure up there that remains very unstable there was damage to the bow of the boat, especially the port side. it was earlier stated there are sea containers up there that are very unstable. so it's going to take a lot of assessment and a lot of meticulous assessment to really get us their teeth. >> let me to ask you that because you just mentioned one of the biggest headlines out of that press conference, which is the 764 tons of hazardous material that was on that ship. and what i believe the ntsb chair will once she described it as corrosive, flammable, and

she said that some of them are breached on the ship, including flammable. and she also described a sheen on the water seeming to suggest that some of it has made it into the water, is that what you do, you know how much of that is in the water, if so? >> we. don't know how much is in the water right now. we are aware that hazardous materials are part of the cargo and as described, various hazard classes >> what we've been able to >> do, it's been really, we've relied very heavily on aerial reconnaissance. so the night of the incident, we had overwatch their own state police who had infrared capability, and then we've had drones up over top of the site itself. that's the only way we're able to see in oftentimes when chemicals release their chemical reactions that they give off heat they'll give off a very strong odor. they'll give off a vapor cloud. >> and >> it's been that overwatch piece that's been able to really assure us right now, we

have no reactions on board >> i would >> also add, it's going to be very difficult, if not impossible, and very dangerous to place people on the ballot that boat right now with the c containers as tight as they are and the way they've shifted >> chief james wallace, thank you for your time tonight >> yes, ma'am. thank you >> also joining us again is maritime expert sal mercogliano, who knows ports and container ships inside. and now as we talked about last night, you cover this on your youtube channel. what's going on with shipping and sell? it's great to have you back because the other big headline added that press conference that we just got from the ntsb officials was about what was happening with the timeline and what was heard. the alarms before the ship actually hit that bridge. and hearing that pilots called for tugboats to come and assist, but obviously, they didn't make it there in time. what was your reaction to that? >> well i think we were piecing together what happened on board

that ship and they one of the things you did here is that ships vdrl, vessel data recorders are not as complex. they don't get as much information as airplane black box is. but what we didn't was it kind of timeline which we hope to get read to us in near future of the exact orders that came out on the bridge. it sounds like again, the ships pilots, there were two pilots onboard. just the bay pilots who sounded the alarm almost immediately once that power went out, they knew they were in trouble. they set in motion, they emergency distress signal out. they sent a mayday out. it started movement on the bridge. it started tugs and coast guard heading their way. and the crew seem to have performed admirably and trying to get a handle on the situation. >> what we didn't >> learn obviously is what caused the power outage map that we didn't the ntsb wouldn't even confirm that there was a power outage at this time. >> they also said that they hadn't spoken to the pilots yet, and i guess if there's a limit to that data the recorder and i want to get more to that in a moment. but if there's a limit to that, i mean, what

kind of questions do they have? would you have for the pilots here >> well, i think they want to get the feel of the pilots going on board. what was told to them by the ship's master was everything in water. what was the events leading up to the loss of power? was there any indications at all? that there was a problem with it? >> i would >> want them also interview the pilots that brought the dali up to the poor have there been any issues in docking that vessel, any issues at all and professionalism or maintenance with the ship. >> and then >> you want to interview the master. remember the crew on board here is indian. so once you let them go, it's gonna be very hard to get them back so you've got to get all that testimony, all that expert witness information from them while they're here. >> do you think i mean, i assume it kind of surprised me that they haven't actually spoken to the pilot yet at this point >> yeah. i mean, there's a couple of >> issues at play. i mean, the pilot would be the one you'd want to grant first because the pilot is not on the vessel anymore, they would have been sent ashore. so you could have grabbed them very early and

done that, get their information before they get exposed to the press and everything else going on and news, you want to get that feeling. the ship's crew was on the ship because they got to maintain the ship. i mean, we still have issues with the ship if weather comes up, we got to worry about the ship's shifting but they really need to start group gathering that information as quickly as they can maritime issues are not really the floor the ntsb, they are much more aviation and rohde focus. so it's always a challenge when we have maritime issues with the investigation. i think >> that's really interesting and, you know, the biggest change that i think maybe not everyone realizes is that what you were just saying about it's not a black box. it's not doesn't have all the data points that you would get from a commercial airplane if it had crashed. and just the way jennifer homendy was describing it as saying it's much more of a snapshot of what's going on on the ship at this time. i mean how much less will they learn? because it's a more basic operation >> they have to fill in the pieces we've seen these investigations when l thorough

sunk and a few other vessels we've had incidents with, its very hard. we don't have all the information. this is something that the us and the international maritime organization should really be pushing or better documentation, better technology on board the vessels. >> so that we >> can see what happens in case of these emergencies allowed vital data. we're not going to be able to get engine room performance. engine room data that's the kind of stuff that we need to determine what caused this power failure wasn't mechanical, was it engineering was electrical. we just don't know this is something the ntsb's and have to do. and then of course you have the issue that this is an international ship with international companies. and when you start looking at the elements that are play here, singapore flag, danish company, indian crew japanese classification society. it gets very difficult when you're dealing with all these different entities yeah, all really great points. sal mercogliano, great to have you back on the source of this here tonight >> thank you for having me >> now we've talked about the ship here. we're also still

learning more about the bridge and its structure, including just moments ago at this press conference, nehemiah mayberry is a structural engineer, entrepreneur, and an educator who builds bridges for a living. so you are the perfect guests to have here. i just want everyone to listen to a really important moment from that press conference about the structural integrity of this bridge. this is what official said a member fails. that would likely cause a portion of or the entire bridge to collapse. there's no redundancy the preferred method for building bridges today is that there is redundancy. build it, built-in, whether that's transmitting loads to another member or some sort of structural are redundancy this bridge did not have redundancy what did you make of that this bridge didn't have any any redundancies on it >> yes. thanks. i have my

katelyn and prayers to all affected by this. what this is referring to is the type of structure that existed in this main portion of the britt, known as a trust over these three spans there in the middle trust is made is made up of diagonal minute members that looks sort of like a triangular wet and these types of structures are often fracture critical, meaning that if a key component that is either pushing or pulling against another component adjacent are next to it is compromised. it can lead to further compromising or domino effect of the members that are along it. and around the late '70s or '80s are coding authorities began to really emphasize the need for structural redundancy. however, today as was said, is quite different. but during this time, it was known that's trust bridges are very strong there are among the strongest that you can use in terms of the ability to support vertical weight. however, as we learn things and situation like this happen, the need for structural

identity became more and more part of our coding lexicon >> but given those coding changes, as you said, came in closer to the '80s, i mean, this is a bridge it was built in the 1970s. so this is something that would have happened before those coding and structuring changes happened >> yeah, it's hard to tell because there were some lessons we learned in engineering community in the late 60 that'd began to change sort of the emphasis on these design practices. and so design or right around that a time. however, i would say that trust bridges and in this case is a continual trust, continuous trust that actually shares loans across supports as well. so beyond the fact that the trust itself particularly be fresh are critical. you also have situations where lowe's or redistribute or chip to be shared across i'll supports. and so we're talking about different levels, whether it's talking about micro of the actual truss members or even the continuous nature of that

portion of the bridge in general, it's always important of course, to have redundancy and this is something that has become towards the later latter part of the 20th century. something very, very common now in the bridges that we design so i mean is they're talking about the massive undertaking that is rebuilding this bridge when it comes to that, obviously, a lot of steps before that. i mean, is that something that would be different in the reconstruction this time around? >> yeah a couple of things would be different. i mean, obviously the ship sizes, as was mentioned before, have drastically increased since the time of the bridge instruction. not only that, but as we know, there are a number of protective measures even beyond the structure themselves that are put in place such as dolphins and vendors that are put in place to protect against collapse or impact of this nature so that being said, i think modern traffic conditions modern environmental circumstances, you know, are, are obviously modern shipping circumstances that we have now all we run into consideration

in the reconstruction and redesign of the bridge yeah, it's a long road ahead. nehemiah mayberry. thank you for breaking. hold that down for us >> thank you >> and as we mentioned, as part of this, has moved on from the recovery phase two, the salvage phase, that means divers can no longer navigate these treacherous waters because they are so difficult to recover more victims we're want to speak to someone who knows these obstacles well. and just a moment, he was among the first divers in the water after florida's sunshine skyway bridge disaster. also tonight in a reckoning for the chief architect is stop. the 2020 election certification that man, you're looki at right there will tell you in a moment seven astronauts setting off on a scientific mission, columbia, houston. >> object. i didn't know anything concerning it happened. there were people that did the space shuttle accident. it's usually not one thing, it's a series of events >> you follow the debris.

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>> because when the sunshine sky way over tampa bay was hit by a ship and also collapsed in 1980, babri ola was a senior diver with the florida department of transportation, and he helped, but that recovery effort and joins me now, bob it's great to have you given baltimore's harbor has these frigid waters fast-moving? tides. and now these huge pieces of steel and concrete submerged in the water. i mean, how massive is this undertaking >> it's going to be huge it's going to take quite awhile for

the diverse to cover the entire area. area as thoroughly as they feel like they need to even where it's a new methods and techniques were sites can seminar most of the dive recovery is going to be tactful, is going to be with the divers swimming inch by inch along that concrete and steel that debris this on the bottom >> i imagined it didn't surprise you when they did call off this surge because right now it's just two days jurists for them to continue searching down there >> no, no, i completely understand that. and i appreciate the concern for everybody's safety. i know that the conditions up there are significantly worse than what they were down here in florida on that morning. we had 30-foot of horizontal visibility the tides and currents or not? a significant as they are up in the harbor, up in baltimore they steal and concrete structure up there still hasn't settled in his probably subject to movements and stuff. i'm sure the divers are hearing creaking and

groaning and can't see much out of sight, probably within arm's reach i'm sure there's a concern about falling concrete, asphalt and steel sharp edges. all kinds of obstructions that aren't going to be clearly visible. it's completely understandable and i just wish him the best of luck and encouraged to be cautious. i know that everybody is anxious to resolve the issues and to bring closure to the families isn't victims. and out to them. but my heart's officer goes out to the first responders, the divers that people topside that are tending them and taking care of them. and i caution, please be careful. no matter what you do, you're never going to feel like you've done enough, whether it's tonight or tomorrow or next week it may take quite some time to resolve all the issues going on completely underwater, let alone when they begin the investigation. so i urge caution and i'm glad that the coast guard is to taking caution. >> well, and you know, i mean, what what they're going

through, what this is like. we have a picture from 1980 after that sky way bridge collapsed you're there on the left in this photo. i mean, can you just kinda take us back to what it is like as a diverse navigating something where you don't really know fully what you're going into. >> exceptionally true eight would be difficult for people who haven't been in that situation. i was a combat veteran, vietnam and went through quite a bit of stuff and still couldn't prepare myself for what i was going to see when as soon as i hit the water and got underwater, it's something divers in the first responders, whether they're divers are not going to deal with not only today until night, but they're going to deal with that. like, i have been for the rest of their lives as should another issue or situation like this appear. i'm sure that they're going to feel the same that they do. they will never feel like they've done enough where there was lacking as tonight, today or tomorrow, they'll

always have that little doubt in mind and thought that they could have done and wish they could have done more >> labriola. thank you. one for your service and two for your expertise on this, for explaining what this is lying to us. >> thank you, very much for having me. i appreciate it >> also tonight, major consequences for one of donald trump's alleged coconspirators for his role, a major one, if not the central one besides donald trump, in attempting to overturn the 2020 election erin burnett outfront tomorrow. it's seven on cnn >> it's just your mother and i went different things, which is why we got sling tv so we can watch live and free tv on one app that's right thing is really keeping this family together. you have no idea i didn't had no idea >> old spice gentleman who buy hydro body wash and now lance

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your or gratify risk-free with i 30 day fit guarantee at honey love.com closed captioning is brought to you by skechers, hands-free slip ends step in the future like i did when you hands-free skechers slip in the secret is slip ends have an invisible built-in shoe horn, so your foot slides into place to try skechers slip ends there's breaking news out of california tonight as the attorney who has been called the chief architect of donald

trump's bid to overturn the 2020 >> election. a california judge is now just recommended that john eastman be disbarred. it is a 128 page scathing rebuke for the court found that his quote lack of remorse and accountability presents what they say is a significant risk to the public. this is the culmination of a months-long trial that has been going on. but really bigger picture, it's a major reckoning for another lawyer who tried to keep trump in power after he lost in 2020 the california supreme court will have the final say here. but this ruling will force eastman's law license into inactive status, which effectively bars him from practicing the law. i'm joined tonight by the chief trial counsel for state bar of california, george cardona, who led the eastman case. and it's great to have you here. i mean, this is a blistering decision then why? when you read it, why do you believe a case like this against johnny's min is so important >> i mean, it's important

because for a number of reasons, i mean, one, the violations of the lawyers duties were clear and obvious as the opinion in biggs clear mr. eastman? lied on repeated occasions, made false statements of fact or law. but second, what makes the case really unusual is the context in which those violations of an attorney's duties occur they were made as the court found as part of a conspiracy with his end client and president trump to attempt to delay and obstruct the counting of the electoral votes and delay the peaceful transition to a preska, intellectual biden >> how do you expect the california supreme court to rule here? >> well i mean the recommendation will go up to them. the opinion lays out in quite some detail the extensive evidence that was presented to support it. my hope would be that when and if it gets the supreme court that they uphold the recommendation and order to respond do you believe that johnny has been violated criminal law with his actions

>> that's probably not for me to judge. there is a pending criminal case in georgia in which he's named, know what we alleged were a series of what we believed were false statements in the court's opinion concludes that on repeated occasions i'm both in public to vice president prince and vice president pence is counsel and in court filings mr. eastman made false statements. the court also does find by clear and convincing evidence, which is somewhat different standard from the criminal standard. that he did engage in a conspiracy with then president trump to try and obstruct the counting of the electoral votes >> yeah, george cardona, it's worth reading in full. thank you for joining us tonight to talk about this important case. >> thank you for having me >> also here tonight is seen as senior legal analyst, elie honig and ellie, when you're just what do you make of this ruling when you read it, johnny has been did this to himself and that becomes very clear when you read this rolling and it's important to understand what line exactly johnny has been crossed because a defense lawyer has a duty and really an

obligation at times to make aggressive arguments or novel arguments are unusual arguments. what john eastman did though, as mr. cardona just said, is he time and again dozens of times laid out in this opinion, gave false information to court, made arguments based on things that he claimed were fat, but he knew or should have known were false and that's why he's now had his license suspended. >> so what do you make of his statement tonight where he saying that the process is they referred to it, that he undertook is the same one taken by lawyers every day and everywhere. it is the essence of what lawyers do. i mean, >> it's good in theory, if that is what he had done but that's not what he did, right? we see people make novel legal arguments all time. i'll give you a recent example. we saw groups of lawyers recently bringing 14th amendment challenges to try to keep trump off the ballot. well, that was untested. they were making aggressive arguments that failed almost uniformly that were rejected 90 by the supreme court. but that's not going to get anyone disbarred because they didn't lie they didn't make up facts, they didn't put

things in front of the court that they knew were false. and that's the difference in eastman is trying to say he was on the one side of the line, but he clearly crossed it will end >> decide that he's now on i mean, it's rudy giuliani, jeffrey clark, jenna ellis, sidney powell, like all of these attorneys who were in trump's orbit and those final critical few weeks when he was trying to not leave office i mean, it's kind of remarkable to see the culmination of the big picture of it to really look, it's not lawyers fine. his day as a profession, hopefully it will be a lesson to people, but if you tick through it, you have people who are indicted in fulton county moos of those lawyers you just named, you have several of them including eastman had been named i'm just coconspirators not charged in jack smith's case, you have several who have now lost their law licenses. you have people who've been sued civilly. so there's real accountability coming home to roost will infer john eastman. >> some of these attorneys are not actually practicing. he still he is currently a practicing attorney them even though he will appeal this, i've truly zero doubt about i mean, he can't practice law

right now. yeah. not to state the obvious. that's a big deal to lose your law license. this is his life's work. he's been a practicing lawyer for 40 years or so and not only do you have the humiliation of losing your license, you lose your ability to make a living. so there are real consequences here. >> yeah what do you think the supreme court of california because this is important, is not outright disbarred its recommendation after a lengthy investigation in which he defended himself in this process. but what do you make of the california supreme court, how they handle this by the way, he cannot complain that he did not have process. i mean, he had a full hearing. this ruling is exhaustive. i think the california hey, supreme court will agree with the ruling that we just saw that just came out. i think they will ultimately disbar him, you know, i read through that ruling as quickly as i go. it's 128 pages. >> it >> is nuanced. it is detailed, and it goes through not just one or two or three, dozens of examples where eastman said dead people voted in underage, people voted just simply false and i guess he thought he could get away with it, compares them

two, it says that they haven't seen behavior like this since its sights. one of nixon's henchmen yeah. >> i haven't been around that long, but in my experience, same same here. i mean it's almost become part of this story that you almost can take for granted. but when you think back to when this was all happening not just john eastman, but jeffrey clark and rudy and sidney powell none of this could have happened without them. they were the enablers that took donald trump's wild fantasies and gave the legal imprimatur to it and really spurred this whole thing on. so these i feel sorry for someone in a human sense when they lose their license, when they get indicted, or when they get sued. but i just don't feel any sympathy here because they've earned all of this. >> well, i mean if someone at home is feeling sorry for him, which i'm not sure. many people are for johnny spin. as we were waiting for this to come down. and katelyn poland. so i call it and i were talking about the ramifications of this. i was thinking about what johnny has been said after he turned himself in georgia because he is a co-defendant of trump's there. and whether he ever regretted tying himself to

trump >> do you still think the election was stolen >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> no question. >> do you regret attaching your name to the former president? none whatsoever. the president calls and ask for representation. i think every citizen in my position should be willing to stand up. we've got to play in that i mean, when when the judge says he has no remorse, like he has no regrets either, the judge cited that look, eastman could have very well said, look, i was trying to do >> my job as a lawyer. things got out of control. i regret what happened. i hope i didn't harm anyone instead, he's doubling or tripling down elie honig. thank you for being with us on major breaking news. also, speaking of major, it is a red flag to tell lies on a job interview. obviously, we all know that. but apparently it is not at the new trump run republican national committee. there was a new question that hires apparently have to get wrong

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the white house. and this is cnn >> name >> resume, and did you think that the 2020 election was stolen, cnn has learned that that last question is what people who are applying for jobs at the republican national committee are being asked by party officials sure. sounds like a litmus test for the blind loyalty that the national republican party has been looking for. and really showcasing after purging the committee earlier this month after the chairwoman step down, it's all in stark contrast to what that chairwoman ronna mcdaniel and the new co-chair, lara trump. i've been saying would they themselves were asked about the outcome of the 2020 election just this week where i wasn't 2020. and the quotes that are being taken from a very long time about three-and-a-half years ago, to wearing am today you've got to allow the process to play out. i think it is fair to say there were concerns then, but no, i biden is the president and we

need to move forward. >> going to be the position of the rnc in 2024 that the 2020 election was not fairly decided or that it was stolen somehow. >> well, i think we're past that. i think that's in the asked >> tony me now former deputy assistant to president biden, who also served as a senior white house communications aid jamal simmons, and also republican strategist and former deputy can make campaign manager for the desantis presidential campaign. david pollyanna cki, i mean, one, i have to know that ronna and ronna mcdaniel our trump, both pushed and promoted, lies about the election claiming all of this fraud, which obviously didn't exist. >> but i mean >> as a republican, are you comfortable with that question being asked of employees >> what look? first and foremost, i get democrats want to talk about 20:20 in terms of the election, and i think for public cans, we need to be talking about 20:20 in terms of asking voters if they were better off in 2020 than they are today. that's where the debate needs to be as it pertains to these specific

questions. >> i don't know. you've reading the washington post today, it sounds like it was one of a plethora of questions whether you know, not just how they felt about the 2020 election to what they'd be willing in the move to palm beach. so the question is, was it a litmus test? i don't think it's actually clear on that. and for me, i think you would need to ask potential employees, especially if they're going into the field, how they would respond to that question? probably just as ask a democrat field operative who was going to michigan how they would answer the question about the us position on the israeli gaza conflict. so isn't it a litmus test if you get asked a question and if your answer is one thing you don't get hired. >> well, that's let's see. i don't know if that's the case in washington post didn't report that the wilds ask it, well, why else would you ask again, a plethora of questions. you have to be able to go in the field, make no mistake if you are applying to go to the rnc, right? great. now, you have to be willing to go in and support and defend donald trump and try to do everything in your power to get them into the white house. you know, that is his position on the issue and i

don't think it's unfair to ask the question. what i hope is the rnc doesn't focus their hiring practices on the answer to that question, but instead hires the best people in the best position missions because we are way far behind are our friends on the other side, and we need to catch up and we don't have time for litmus tests >> it's clearly it's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard i've seen this multiple times, every four years. the new presidential nominee gets to choose who they want. we'll bring in. they layer over some staff. i've been layered over. i've also been the person who's layered over someone else, right? it's what happens to you when you, when the nominee wins. but what you don't do is do a wholesale purge, kick everybody out, told everybody, oh, now you get to reapply and you have to sign up to a conspiracy theory that is demonstrably not true. and most americans don't either, either, don't believe or don't want to hear about anymore and you talk about what we're better off today than we were in 2020, were absolutely better off than we were in 2020. 20, we're in

the middle of the pandemic with a president who wanted us to use bleach to get rid of it, get rid of covid. so the more people focus on what's happening in the future. better off we're going to be. but this idea, what they're doing, the rnc has absolutely crazy >> i would >> just push back to say, i think voters feel differently. and that's why it's incumbent upon the rnc. it's incumbent upon the trump campaign in all republicans that are trying to win the white house, this go round and frankly recapture the senate and hold the house to talk about that contrast because voters disagree by wide margin, whether it's on the economy and inflation to border security, to crime and everything in-between for some reason, they have a very romantic view of the first trump administration back in those days. and unless there's a change of heart and that's why i think democrats are trying to change 2020 back to the election they are in deep trouble, i guess where i see this is this isn't a policy issue. it's not like immigration. every policy issue i could probably say the two of

you probably disagree on energy policy, immigration, climate change, all of these issues, this isn't an immigration, this isn't a policy debate. it's a yes-or-no question and the answer is no. doesn't stole it. so why are they asking these perspective staffers have to say because they're going to feel it, they have to say yes >> every person that works on the trump campaign or in the rnc and goes in the field, is going to be asked about election integrity, whether reflecting in the past or certainly as it goes forward into 2024, that's just the reality. i mean, we're talking about but adhere today. and so my view, my hope is that they're asking that question to see how people answer it. i would think it would be a massive insignificant mistake to make hiring decisions based off of their answer. >> kaitlan campaigns are games of addition right you have to assemble as many people as possible in order to win >> this looks like a >> game of division. now, only is the president dividing democrats from republicans. now he's dividing republicans from republicans because either you have to sign up for the chaos

or not. and apparently, if you worked for nikki haley, you also can't get a job with the trump campaign the rnc. that's the word on the street these days, right? so that's true they are taking republicans out of donald trump's win column that just seems like a recipe for failure. >> i mean, it's the ultimate trick question, but anyway, great to have both of you here onset. thank you for that. >> another >> big question that is being asked, one was less controversial. i don't know. maybe it's actually just as country sure. so should kids be allowed to have smartphones before they are in high school? my next guess is no, and he thinks that smartphones and social media are actually fueling a mental health crisis among children since make his case right after this make your first move with battery power made by steel right now, save $50 on the fsa, 57 battery trimmers said real still. >> find your >> i have a question anyone

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election at joy bird.com >> laura coates live next. i'm cnn closed captioning brought to you by mesobook.com >> if you or a loved one have mesothelial mac will send you a free book to answer questions you may call now, and we'll come to you 808 to 14000 some kids have access to social media. >> it >> seems like a simple question, but it really has dire implications as the us right now is facing a devastating mental health crisis among its children. this

week, florida governor ron desantis signed a bill into law banning children 14 and under from having their own social media accounts. it's really just the latest in a string of states that are trying to pass laws that restrict young americans from being on social media. but with youth suicide rates rising, a big question is whether or not it's enough and what parents should be doing to bring normalcy back into their children's lives in the smartphone era that we now live in. joining me now as johnathan height, who is a social psych colleges from new york university, and also the author of the new book, the anxious generation, how the great we rewiring of childhood is causing an epidemic of mental illness. and it's so great to have you on because this book is really engaging and essentially what you're saying is that we went from this era of you called it play-based childhood to now but its smartphone base. and the consequences that are so obvious from that, that's right >> so one of the things i tried to do in the book is not just say the sky is falling, look at

how bad the mental health stats are. >> i >> take a long time in the book to go through what is childhood? why do we have it? why, why is human childhood so long? and once you see all the things we have to do in childhood, developing our social skills, taking risks. and you see that we were doing that all the way up until the 1990s, kids were doing that from 5 million bc until the 1990s, we start reducing that were over-protective. but their mental health doesn't plummet till we give, they trade in their flip phones for smartphones. and that all happens between 2,010.20, 15. that's the great rewiring because a flip phone doesn't take up every minute of your life. but once he had a smartphone, it does. and childhood, as we know it for millions of years is over and you basically a quote that you said that really stuck out to me. you said we've over protected are children in the real-world and we've under protected them online. you will see changes here with these companies, not in the sense of cleaning up content and fixing that. you believe it's bigger than that. >> that's right. everyone

>> focuses on the content >> the latest >> data chose that american kids are spending about five hours a day on average, just on social media just social media. you add in all the other stuff and you're up to eight to ten hours a day on their phones and other screen devices that pushes out just about everything else. now, there's a lot of efforts to say, well, let's clean it up. let's lets you know if they're gonna spend ten hours a day. let's at least make it not so much, susan thai content and let's make it nicer stuff. it's still ten hours a day. it means there's still sleeping less. their exorcising levs, they're seeing their friends much, much less. they're not studying as much. they're distracted all the time. so my point is, we can't possibly make social media safe for middle school kids. it's just absurd. middle-school is where the greatest damage has debt, especially the girls. we have to just get it all out. >> i'm not saying ban, at least >> ban phones legally. i'm saying we need a norm or parents are thinking like when's the right age and they give a phone early because everyone else did. but if we can just say, let's get it all out of middle school. no smartphones still high school, just give you a flip phone or an apple watch that would go a

long way, which is what you've done with your on kids. >> that's right. well, i didn't know any better when i >> first gave my son an iphone in fourth grade, we have delayed social media. i made it clear to them. no social media. any kind in middle school because you describe these foundational reforms and one of them is no smartphones before high school, no social media before 16, you think schools should be sound free and more play time. >> an >> independence. i think a lot of parents are like, yes. sure. yeah. i like that, but there's this sense. it seems of resignation and not how do you practically implement? >> yes, that's been stunning to me. most of my previous rating, there's been some controversy have been people saying i'm wrong or i'm stupid here i haven't yet found anyone who's disagreeing with me everyone has sees the problem but there's a pervasive sense of, well, what are you going to do? the gene is out of the bottle. it's too, we can't roll it back. we have to roll it back our children don't have childhood. they're coming out in terrible shape. academic performance is down. i

mean, we can't just say, well, what are you going to i do this secret, the trick to getting out of this is to recognize that we all hate it. the kids even don't like the kids even say they wish these programs were never invented. but they're trapped. and so it's a collective action problem. and if we can coordinate, we can solve it collectively. so it just, so if you're, if you're a parent and you're listening to this get on the text thread or talk to the parents of a couple of friends of your kids. >> if you >> all delay smartphones or if you all put certain restrictions on, then it's okay. your kids will go for it if they just don't want to be the only one. so we can escape this if we act collectively. >> but do you hear from parents who are actually doing that? >> yes, i do. every day but my hope is it's so far its lone parents who are doing it and then their kids feel isolated. then they often have feel like they're grateful later, but i want to make it easy for parents to do it today, tomorrow jonathan haidt, the book is the anxious generation. it's fascinating. everyone should read it. thank you for jous