they were threatening thousands would -- well, no, but we're going to show you when they were filing in earlier. one of the rules was that they couldn't have loud speakers. so they spoke loudly with their images. they brought in puppets of some of the candidates. >> if they cared and what issues they would ask the candidates about if they could. >> i'm going to the debate, yes. >> no, i'm not going to the debate but i really wanted to go to the debate. >> i'm not going to lie to you, i don't know a whole lot about the debate itself. >> one question in general, is how they would deal with funding in general. >> i would like to hear from carly fiorina. >> the immigration policy -- >> i disagree with a lot of things that trump has to say and a lot of the things that the

candidates have to say. but i think it's good to see what both sides have to say. >> reporter: of the 1200 people inside, many of them are university of colorado students. the students pushed for more and got them. we'll try to speak with them after the debate and see what they got. after you. >> jane, i can't tell, i don't know whether you can tell, but i don't know whether they're more liberal now than when i went back in the '70s, or i would tend to think the faculty is. but i'm not convinced that some of these people are not. they're aspirational, as well, they need to buy their electronic devices, they need jobs, they need to pay off their student loans. i'm not convinced that they're anymore liberal than when i was here. >> reporter: i think you're right. you were here in the '70s, that was a liberal decade, for sure. no, i'm convinced not everybody

here is voting for bernie sanders. there are a few. and even if they're not, this debate i have to tell you has generated a lot of interest. rand paul went over to have lunch with the students at the cafeteria today. it was not like he was a rock star, but i'm not kidding, all the students, their head shot up. they got their cell phones out. and maybe they're not republicans, but he speaks with a lot of libertarian views. >> we had dinner last night with the board of regents. this is one of the few universities where the regents are elected. number two, i was told five of the nine regents are republican, five of nine are republican. >> why do you think the university wanted it to be here? why do you think the university of colorado in boulder would offer this place up as a venue

for a gop debate. it's because the region -- yes, exactly. >> yes, yes, in fact he talked about it. he talked about the negotiations and how much they wanted. he offered us a great deal. so there is hope for colorado. but -- >> just to emphasize, jane, the reason why the gop is also here is because colorado is an important swing state. you know, they have to speak not just to university students or millennials, but to voters across the state who may have been supporting democrats for the past eight years, whether it is time to back the gop. >> this state is not so -- it's a very diverse state. you have the air force academy. >> kidding, kidding. >> i could have a beer -- i'm kidding. i've heard a lot of joking about why we're here. >> all right, jane, out in the field in boulder, colorado, appreciate it. >> all right, we are back now,

senior contributor -- jimmy didn't say anything, kind of gave me the thumbs up, right, dude? >> very powerful statement. as to let's talk now looking forward. because we've -- we -- >> i want to see -- look, i want to see a substantive debate, number one, we're going to ask policy questions on the economic program. and i don't want to see them rank them out by the debate -- >> and addressing the crowd as we get ready for the debate to get under way in moments. >> this is a very important debate, i want to hear -- what they are saying. i want to -- >> they will talk about the middle class agenda that goes past abstract gdp. what is your health plan? your education plan?

not just do they have a tax cut that loses dollars -- >> i would point out, the candidates are rolling out the most thoughtful policies as governors are not getting much traction right now. >> this will be the first concentrated discussion, that is what i'm saying. >> we'll see at the end -- >> for once -- >> well, i -- we'll watch for the candidates to go more aggressively at each other. they have been pretty new to their comments in previous debates. before people go to the polls i think you will see a lot of people turn to ben carson. >> he has not been governor or senator so far. so far unelected -- >> look -- this is going to be a moment -- this is a moment when donald trump and dr. ben carson have to really put out what their plans are. so far, trump has put out stuff -- they're all going to have to. if we do it right, cnbc will get

it on the table. >> and the conservative forum agenda -- >> maybe they will argue among themselves. >> another thing we need to see out of the debate out of marco rubio, is the dissent on why he should remain in the senate. there was a call asking him to step down -- he will either put that story to bed tonight or this will fuel on -- >> about not making it -- >> because he is not showing up. >> does anybody care about that issue other than the opposite -- >> at this point -- this is an important night for him. >> by the way, we're asking viewers -- coming up we'll take a look. the results are at

cnbc.com/vote. trump still is in the lead, 34%, carson with 25 interestingly, and paul up at third, 14 currently. you can go to cnbc/vote to get those final comments in. >> and we're talking about policy, whether it changed the votes here. arguably, trump discussing what people have responded to. >> i think that is a fair point but a lot of his appeal, i believe, is about his tone and rhetoric and the fact he channels the argument in the debate, because people they have elected for decades, in years have not accomplished anything. >> there is a very unpleasant strain deep in the republican debate. so it's not just like this random anger. >> there are a brought speculadf

people -- >> at the same time he says he wants to make america great. which is like an almost reagan-like debate. who is the real trump? carson is leading in the polls, in "the new york times" -- he had one in iowa. >> rubio, trump, bush -- >> what we want to know, the public wants to know what you stand for. >> with ben carson? >> yes. >> i think it's pretty clear what he stands for. he stands for this moral, et cetec ethical character. >> they're going to have a chance to see what dr. ben carson wants. >> and rand paul, they have not talked about -- you know, he is

bordering on obscurity here in the primary. so he has to have an articulate message or he will be left behind. >> we are getting close, i think to the second debate. and we're looking at -- did you recognize that tall sort of striking gentleman that was in the crowd -- cnbc chairman mark hoffman was addressing the crowd. that is not him. but -- he is definitely our boss, and -- >> yeah, yeah, yes. >> and when he finishes, i think we're going to go fairly quickly. >> just real quickly. ted cruz has a new economic big bang plan. i think he will unveil it tonight. >> and reading more about it in the newspaper tomorrow -- >> he has a journal piece coming up. i think he will refer to it -- he is in the running, in the

game. >> and earlier, is he missing that donald trump make america great kind of rallying cry? >> i think he is, it is much easier to get elected senate than it is governor or mayor or president. if he is going to be a lead frontrunner in this party, which he could -- a lot of people believe he will assume that trump vote. he is going to have to come up with a much more optimistic -- >> for some who channel ted cruz -- he should take a cue from ronald reagan. >> ted cruz -- purist, free market capital -- >> i don't know about that, he is right on all the conservative issues. that is intentionally so -- >> so the right of the conservatives, or right -- >> maybe the base would like.

>> i would like to see ted cruz go against just something the base would like, will there be a flat tax plan -- probably what you would expect. >> that is the rub on him among insiders, he is -- >> he is very opportunityist -- and that is my point about running for governor or mayor. that shines through when you're running in these races where people need to be comfortable with you in their living room. >> all right, needs to be a much broader portfolio. that is the problem. people who look at this debate they will say, oh, republicans, taxes, i've heard that. the republicans are not saying this is how your kid is going to get a good, affordable higher education. they understand that is not just with obamacare. if they can do that, that is a ball game. >> i have a word -- >> you know, this plan would

take $11 trillion -- will pay for itself over five or six years. >> up to $9 trillion, i'm worried about it. >> the corporate tax will pay for itself. >> and the challenges that he doesn't -- he doesn't talk in detail about how he is going to respond. and that is a real problem with donald trump. >> that is the beauty of tonight. maybe we can get some details. >> and there is donald trump entering the stage with the candidates lining up. the debate will begin in just a couple of moments. and so many of these guys, there is trump and carson, the clear frontrunners. for the rest of them, same question we had earlier. how do you break through and make it your night? jeb bush has had a tough couple of weeks. he has to bring energy, and quell some of the chatter of

those who have been circling the wagons on his candidacy, so to speak. >> and last, trump and carson -- he is saying they want to -- carson wants to repeal medicare. that is crazy, saying trump's tax money -- would cost $10 trillion in deficits. john kasich needs a big night. >> i want to see what carly fiorina does, i was disappointed in her research -- >> you think you're going to get that detail tonight -- >> i'm hoping to get some. we don't know what her tax plan or trade plan is. we don't know what her present

plan is, her entitlement plan is. it is true, you got to get this out. >> i would go with make america awesome again. i would put a little spin on it. >> that is the main thing -- >> i want to see these candidates go after each other on their plans which are different, different even than the tax cuts. i want to see them really begin to parse out who has a good idea, who doesn't. >> is trump going to be the rebel or the more mainstream guy tonight? >> i think for donald trump, it's interesting. this is the first time he has been on the stage where he is not the leader. i think ben carson is the leader, right now. how does he act as the second fiddle? >> thank you all so much, thank you everybody for tuning in. we'll pick it up as soon as we're done here, the republican presidential debate begins right now.

>> the economy that is weak -- >> the entire political system is to blame. >> throw them out of office. >> how stupid are they? >> colorado, the inspiration for america the beautiful is now a battleground state in the race for the white house. we're in the middle of a contentious campaign unlike any we've seen before. frustrated voters, living in a nation many believe is in need of economic repair. who will best tackle the toughest issues facing our country's financial future? the global economy is shrinking. the u.s. debt is growing.

the american middle class faltering. tonight, we're in colorado, a state representing change. blazing new trails. leading the way for a new and controversial industry. the best team in business is here to test the candidates in the first debate dedicated to your money, your vote. live, from the university of colorado in boulder. the republican presidential debat debate. >> good evening, i'm carl quintanilla, with my colleague, becky quick. rules of the road, candidates get 30 seconds to answer the question, 60 seconds to answer a formal question, 60 seconds for follow-ups and rebuttals, use

the hash tag, cnbc gop debate, or go to cnbc.com/vote to tell us where you stand throughout the night. let's introduce the candidates, on stage from left to right, governor john kasich. governor mike huckabee. governor jeb bush. senator marco rubio. mr. donald trump. dr. ben carson. mrs. carly fiorina. senator ted cruz. governor chris christie. and senator rand paul. a lot to get to tonight. so let's get started. this first is an open question. the series of debates is

essentially a job interview with the american people. and in any job interview you know this. you get asked what is your biggest weakness. so in 30 seconds, without telling us that you tried too hard or that you're a perfectionist, what is your biggest weakness and what are you doing to address it? we'll go left to right, governor john kasich, 30 seconds. >> good question, but i want to tell you my great concern is we're on the verge of perhaps picking someone who cannot do this job. i've watched to see people say we should dismantle medicaid and medicare and leave the senior citizens out in the cold. i've heard of them talking about deporting people out of this country, splitting families. i've heard of tax schemes that don't add up that put our kids in deeper trouble than they are today. we need somebody to -- >> frankly i did it in

washington, ohio, and i'll do it again in washington if i'm president to get this country moving again. >> governor mike huckabee. >> well, john, i don't really have any weaknesses that i can think of. but my wife is down in the front and if you would like to talk to her she can give you more than you will ever be able to take care of. if i have a weakness it's i try to live by the rules. i try to live by the rules no matter what they are, as a kid i was brought up that way. i tell you the weaknesses in this country there are a lot of people who are sick and tired because washington does not play by the same rules that the american people have to play by. >> thank you, governor, governor bush. >> you know, i am by my nature impatient. and this is not an endeavor that rewards that. you have to be patient and stick with it and all that. but also i can't fake anger. i believe this is still the most extraordinary country on the face of the earth.

and it troubles me that people are rewarded for tearing down our country. it's never been that way in american politics before. i can't do it. i just don't believe this country's days are going to be deeply going down. i think we're on the verge of the greatest times. i want to fix things that let people rise up. >> senator rubio. >> thank you for that question, i begin by saying i'm not sure it's a weakness, but i do believe i share a sense of optimism for today's country, there is a sense in this country that our best days are behind us. that doesn't have to be true. our greatest days lie ahead if we're willing to do what it takes now. the 21st century will be the greatest, greater than any other in this great nation. >> mr. trump. >> i think maybe my greatest weakness is that i trust people too much. i'm too trusting. and when they let me down, if they let me down i never forgive. i find it very, very hard to

forgive people that deceived me. so i don't know if you would call that a weakness, but my wife said let up. >> dr. carson? >> probably in terms of applying for the job of president, the weakness would be not really seeing myself in that position until hundreds of thousands of people began to tell me that i needed to do it. i do however, believe in reagan's 11th commandment and will not be engaging in awful things about my colleagues here. in this election, because we're talking about america for the people versus america for the government. >> mrs. fiorina. >> gee, after the last debate i was told i didn't smile enough. but i also think that these are very serious times. 75% of the american people think

the federal government is corrupt. i agree with them. and this big, powerful corrupt bureaucracy works now only for the big, the powerful, the wealthy and the well-connected. meanwhile, wages are stagglowed 40 years, we need a leader who will help us take our government back. >> senator cruz? >> i'm too agreeable, easygoing. you know, i think my biggest weakness is exactly the opposite. i'm a fighter. i am passionate about what i believe and have been passionate my whole life about the constitution. for six and a half years, we have a big party, if you want somebody to grab a beer with i may not be that guy. but if you want someone to drive you home -- i will get the job done. and i will get you home.

>> governor christie. >> i don't see a lot of weakness on the stage quite frankly. what i see is the weakness, the three people left on the democratic stage. i see a socialist, an isolationist, and a pessimist. and i can't tell you which one is which. the socialist tells you they will give you everything for free, the isolationist is one who follows the foreign policy that has fewer, the pessimist is hillary clinton. they won't get within ten miles of the white house, take it to the bank. >> senator paul? >> you know, i left my medical practice and ran for office because i was concerned about an $18 trillion debt. we borrow a million dollars a minute. now in conservative washington, they put forward a bill that

will explode the deficit. it allows president obama to borrow unlimited amounts of money. i will stand firm and spend every ounce of energy to stop it. i will begin tomorrow to filibuster it. and i will ask every american to call congress tomorrow and say enough is enough, no more debt. >> thank you to all the candidates, john? >> mr. trump, you have done very well in this campaign so far by promising to build another wall and make another country pay for it. send 11 million people out of the country. cut taxes $10 trillion without increasing the deficit and make americans better off because your greatness will replace the stupidity and incompetence of others, let's be honest. is this a comic book version of the president? >> no, it's not a comic book version. and by the way i don't like the

way you phrased the question. we're bringing money back in, corporate inversions. we have $2.5 trillion outside of the united states, as far as the wall is concerned. we'll build the wall, create a border. well, let people in, they will come in legally. it is something that can be done. and i get questioned about it. they built the great wall of china, that is 13,000 miles. here we actually need a thousand because we have natural barriers. we need a wall. we'll have a big fat beautiful door right in the middle of the wall. we'll have people come in legally. and mexico will pay for the wall -- i love the mexican people. i respect the mexican leaders but the leaders are much sharper, smarter and more cunning than our leaders. and just to finish, people say oh, how will you make mexico to pay? a politician cannot get them to pay. i can. we lose, we have a trade

imbalance -- >> excuse me -- >> $50 billion -- >> we're at the 60 seconds. >> the world is peanuts by comparison. >> i have to ask you, you talked about your tax plan. you say it would not increase the deficit because you cut taxes $10 trillion -- >> we're going to take off -- >> the economy would take off like a rocket ship. i talked to economic advisers who have served presidents of both parties. they say you have a chance of cutting taxes that much without increasing a deficit as you would of flying away from that podium by flapping your arms -- >> then you have to get rid of larry kudlow, who is a great guy, who says i love trump's tax plan. >> and the tax -- >> this is all of our plans -- his creates even with the dynamic effect -- >> john -- we'll get back to him in just a minute. we'll continue with this.

i want to talk taxes -- >> coming back to you in a minute. becky. >> dr. carson, let's talk about taxes. you have a flat tax plan, 10% flat taxes, and this is something very appealing to a lot of voters. but i've had a really tough time trying to make the math work on it. if you took a 10% tax, we'll come in with $1.5 trillion, less than half of what we bring in right now. and by the way it will leave us in a $2 trillion hole. what analysis said this will work? >> first of all, i didn't say the rate will -- >> i understand, but if you look at the numbers. >> the rate will be much closer to 15%. >> 15% still leaves you with a $1.1 trillion hole. >> you also have to get rid of the deductions and loopholes. you have to strategically cut in

several places. remember, we have 645 federal agencies and sub-agencies. anybody who tells me that we need every penny in every one of those is in a fantasy world. so also we can stimulate the economy. that is going to be the real growth engine. stimulating the economy -- because its head is down with so many regulations. >> you would have to cut government about 40% to work -- >> that is not true. when we put all the taxes down you will be able to see that it's not true, it works out very well. >> dr. carson, thank you. >> hold it, i'm coming to you right now. >> well, i want to comment on this. >> a fantasy that i talked about in the beginning. >> i'm about to ask you about this. that is, you had some very strong words to say yesterday about what is happening in your party and what you're hearing from the two gentlemen we've just heard from. would you repeat it?

>> i'm the only person on this stage that was actually involved in the chief architect of balancing the budget. these plans would put us trillions in debt. i actually have a plan. i'm the only one on this stage that has a plan that would create jobs, cut taxes, balance the budget and can get it done because i'm realistic. you just don't make promises like this. why don't we just put a chicken in every pot, coming up with these fantasy tax schemes. just cleaning up. where do you clean it up? you have to deal with entitlements, be in a position to control discretionary spending. you have to be creative and imaginative. let me be clear, i went into ohio where we're up 347,000 jobs. when i was in washington i fought to get the budget balanced. i was the architect. it was the first time we did it since man walked on the moon. we cut taxes and we had a $5

trillion projected surplus. when i left that was hard work. fiscal discipline, know what you're doing. creativity. this stuff is fantasy just like getting rid of medicare and medicaid. come on, you scare senior citizens with that. it's not responsible. >> you said yesterday that you were hearing proposals that were just crazy from your colleagues. who were you talking about? >> well, right here they're talking about we'll just have a 10% tithe and that is how we'll fund the government. we'll just fix everything with waste, fraud and abuse. oh that we're just going to be great, and we'll ship ten million people out of this country, leaving their children here in this country and dividing families. folks, we got to wake up. we cannot elect somebody that doesn't know how to do the job. you have to pick somebody who has experience, somebody that has the know-how, the discipline, and i spent my entire lifetime balancing federal budgets, flowing jobs,

same in ohio, i will go back within 100 days, it will pass and we'll be strong again. >> first of all, john got lucky with a thing called fracking, okay? he hit oil, he got lucky with fracking, that is why ohio is doing really well. that is important for you to know. number two, this was the man who was a managing general partner at lehman brothers, and almost took us done with it too. the lehman brothers, they managed it all. thirdly, he was such a nice guy. his poll numbers tanked. that is why he is on the end. he got nasty, so you know what? you can have him. >> let me respond. first of all, ohio does have an

energy industry, but we're diversified. we're one of the fastest growing states in the country. we came back from the dead. and you know what? it works very, very well. secondly when you talk about me being on the board of lehman brothers. i was a banker and traveled around the country and learned how people made jobs. we ought to have politicians who not only have government experience but know how the state works. guess what in 2011, i have -- >> an agreement -- >> he tried to pay -- >> four years later. it's a joke. >> thank you, governor. >> dr. carson, let me get 30 seconds with dr. carson. >> let me just say -- if you're talking about an $18 trillion economy you talk about a 15% tax on your gross domestic product. you're talking about $2.7 trillion. we have a budget closer to $3.5

trillion. but if you also apply that same 15% to several other things including corporate taxes, and including the capital gains taxes you make that amount up pretty quickly. so that is not by any stretch a pie in the sky. >> if you want a 10% flat tax where the numbers add up i rolled out my tax plan today you can find it on line at tedcruz.org. it is a simple flat tax where for individuals a family of four pays nothing on the first $36,000. after that you pay 10% of the flat tax going up. the billionaire and the working man, no hedge fund manager pays less than his secretary. on top of that, there is a business flat tax of 16%. now that applies universally to giant corporations that with lobbyists right now are not paying taxes. and with small business, you

want to know the numbers, this shows the plan will allow the economy to generate $4.9 -- 4.9 million jobs and to generate 14% growth. those are the hard numbers and every single income -- they double digit increase after tax income. growth is the answer. as as reagan demonstrated. if we cut taxes -- >> gentlemen, i'm sorry -- >> we're going to try to move on. >> let me just say on taxes how long have we been talking about tax reform in washington, d.c.? we have been talking about it for decades. we now have a 73,000-page tax code. there have been more than 4,000 changes to the tax plan since 2001 alone. there are rows of great ideas, great conservative ideas from

wonderful think tanks about how to reform the tax code. the problem is we have never get it done. we have talked about tax reform in every single election for decades. it never happens. and the politicians always say it is so complex nobody but a politician can figure it out. the big problem is we need a leader in washington who understands how to get something done. not to talk about it. not to propose it. to get it done. >> you want to push 70,000 pages to three? you know why three? because only if it's about three pages are you leveling the playing field between the big, the powerful, the wealthy and the well-connected who can hire the armies of lawyers and accountants and yes lobbyists to help them navigate their way through 73,000 pages. three pages is about the maximum, but a single business owner or farmer or just a couple can understand without hiring

somebody, almost 63% of people now need to hire an expert to understand their taxes so yes, you're going to hear a lot of talk about tax reform. >> to move on -- >> we'll come around to that. i promise, this one for senator rubio. you have been a young man in a hurry ever since you won your first election for your 20s. you have had a big accomplishment in the senate, an immigration bill providing a path to citizenship that conservatives in your party hate and even you don't support anymore. now you're skipping more votes than any senator to run for president. why not slow down, get a few more things done first and at least finish what you start? >> that is exactly what the republican establishment says, too, wait in line. wait for what? this country is running out of time. watching this broadcast tonight and millions of people are living paycheck to paycheck. they're working as hard as everything has, everything costs more. they have not had a raise in

decades. you have small businesses struggling, more businesses closing than started. a world out of control, a president weakening our military and making the foreign policy unstable and our adversearies continue to grow stronger, the time to act is now, the time to turn the page is now. if we don't ask now, we'll be the first generation that leaves our children worse off than ourselves. >> when some say rubio should resign, when they say people of florida sent you to washington to do your job, when they say you act like you hate your job, do you? >> i read the editorial with great amusement -- >> do you hate your job? >> back in 2004, one of my

predecessors by the name of bob grant ran for president. i don't recall them calling for his resignation. later that year, john kerry missed 40 to 70% of the votes. in 2008, barack obama missed 60 or 70% of his votes and the same newspaper endorsed him again. this is another example of the double standard that exists in this country, between the mainstream media and the conservatives. >> senator, thank you. >> i'm a constituent of the senator and i helped him and i expected he would do constituent service which means he shows up to work. he got endorsed by the sun sentinel, he is the most gifted politician. when you signed up for this, this is a six-year term. you should be showing up to term. literally, the senate, is it a french work week?

you get three days to show up. just resign and let somebody else take the job. there are a lot of people who are living paycheck to paycheck in florida. >> well, that is interesting over the last few weeks, i listened to jeb, he said you're modelling your campaign after john mccain, and will launch a serious comeback like he did by fighting hard in places like new hampshire. you know how many votes john mccain missed -- jeb, let me tell you, i don't remember you ever complaining about john mccain's vote record. the only reason you're doing it now is because we're running for the same position. someone convinced you attacking me is going to help you. i can't campaign about the future of america or attacking anyone else on this stage. i will continue to have tremendous admiration for governor bush, i'm not running against anyone on the stage. i'm running for president. there is no way we can elect hillary clinton to continue the

policies -- >> i -- >> john harwood -- there is a bigger issue -- >> questions for governor bush. >> governor, the fact that you're at the fifth lectern tonight shows how far your stock has fallen, despite the amounts the donors have made. you initially said you had better things to do than sit around and be demonized -- >> i said i don't believe i would be president of the united states and have the same dysfunction. don't vote if you want to same grid lock. if you want somebody that has a proven leadership, elect me so i can fight for the american people and change the culture in washington, d.c. >> it's a question about why you're having difficulty. i want to ask you in this context. ben bernanke who was appointed

fed chairman said he no longer considers himself a republican because the republican party has given into no-nothingism. is that why you're having a difficult time in this race? >> look, the great majority of the republicans believe in a hopeful future and don't believe in building walls and a pessimistic future. the rates were lower than 1977. six million more people living in poverty than the day that barack obama got elected president. the left just wants more of the same. we have to offer a compelling argument that is based on hope and optimism. and grounded in serious policy. that you can go get. jeb bush for 2016 -- >> we'll get to everyone. ms. fiorina, i would like to ask you a question. you're running for question

because of your performance as ceo of hewlett-packard. somebody who invested in your company had lost half of the dollar in the money they invested. anybody following the market knows that your stock was a much worse performer if you looked at your competitors and the overall market. i just wonder, in terms of all that, your board fired you. i just wonder why you think we should hire you now. >> you know, the nasdaq dropped 80%, 80% and it took 15 years for the nasdaq to recover. i was recruited to hp to save a company. it was a company that had grown into a bloated inept bureaucracy that cost too much and delivered too little to customers and shareholders. it had missed before i had arrived expectations for nine quarters in a row. as an outsider, i tackled hp's

problems head-on, cut the bureaucracy down to size. re-introduced accountability. focused on service and innovation on leading in every product and segment. and yes, it was a difficult time. however, we saved 80,000 jobs and went on to grow 106,000 jobs, and scored companies literally like gate way that took all their jobs with them. the truth is i had to make tough calls during tough times. yes, i was fired over a disagreement in the board room. there are politics in the board room as well, yet the man who read my firing, tom perkins, an icon in the silicon valley, said you know what? she was right, we were wrong, the leadership she brought to hb is exactly the leadership we need in washington, d.c. >> it is interesting you bring him up. he said a lot of questionable things, last year in an

interview he said he thinks wealthy people should get more votes than poor people. he said if you pay a million dollars in taxes you should get a million votes? >> this is one of the reasons why tom perkins and i had had disagreements in the board room, becky. nevertheless, one of the things that i think people don't always understand is how accountable a ceo actually is. so you know, i had to report results every 90 days in excruciating detail. i had to answer every single question about every single result and every single projection in public until there were no more questions. and if i misrepresented those results or those projections in any way i was held criminally liable. imagine, imagine if a politician were held to that standard of accounts. i will run on my record all day long. and i believe people need a leader who is prepared to make tough calls in tough times and stand up and be held

accountable. >> thank you, mrs. fiorina, we're out of time. >> and congressional democrats and republicans are about to strike a compromise that would raise the debt limit, during the fear that a washington crisis is on the way. does your opposition to it show you're not the kind of problem-solver that american voters want? >> let me say something at the outset. the questions asked in this debate illustrate why the american people don't trust the media. this is not a cage match. donald trump, are you a comic book villain? marco rubio, why don't you resign? jeb bush, why have your numbers fallen? how about talking about the substantive issues --

>> do we get credit -- >> and carl, i'm not finished yet. the contrast with the democratic debate, where every thought and question from the media was, which of you is more handsome and why? >> let me say, you have 30 seconds left to answer should you choose to do so. >> let me be clear. the men and women on this stage have more ideas, more experience, more common sense, than ever participant in the democratic debate. that debate reflected a debate between the bolsheviks and the menchavicks. nobody believes that the moderators have any intention of voting in a republican primer. the questions being asked shouldn't be trying to get people to tear into each other, it should be what are your

substantive -- >> i asked you about the debt limit and got no answer. >> i'm happy to answer -- let me tell you -- let me tell you -- >> we're moving on. >> senator paul, i have a question for you. >> you don't actually want to hear the answer, john? you just want -- >> you used your time on something is. >> you're not interested in an answer. >> john. >> senator paul, the budget deal crafted by speaker john boehner and passed by the house today makes cuts in entitlement programs, medicare and social security disability which are the very programs conservatives say need cutting to shrink government and solve our country's long-term budget deficit. do you oppose that budget deal because it doesn't cut these programs enough? >> no, i oppose it because you're taking money from the entitlements and then spending it immediately on other items. that is what they're doing. they're taking money from social security and they're going to spend it on the military.

and they're going to spend it on domestic spending. here is the thing, when you look at raising the debt limit it should be leverage to try to reform the government. in 2011, the sequester was passed to slow down government. instead, the washington establishment raised both. we raised the military spending, took the entitlements and raised domestic spending and the deficit will explode under this. this is the unholy alliance that people need to know about between right and left. right and left are spending us into oblivion, we should use the debt ceiling as precisely designed to force upon them budgetary reform. >> senator, if what you just said is true, why did speaker john boehner craft this deal, and why about paul ryan who had a strong record for fiscal discipline, vote for it? >> well, that is the question,

will there be much change in the white house with new leadership? i don't think there will be much change. people in washington think they were sent there to be adults and govern and do all this. you know what i'm worried about? not keeping the government open, i'm worried about bankrupting the american people. we're borrowing a million dollars a minute. that is important and what we have to contrast, keeping the government open, and -- >> governor christie, i would like to come to you. actually i have a question for you. in your "tell it like it is" campaign you said tough things, we need to raise the retirement for social security and need to cut benefits for people who make over $80,000 and eliminate the entitlements for people making over $200,000. governor mike huckabee and others say they think you're trying to rob people of benefits that they have earned. when is it acceptable to break a social contract?

>> i wish you would have asked the question years ago when they broke it. let me be honest with the people at home. the government has lied to you and stolen from you. they told you that your social security money is in a trust fund. ago th all that is in a trust fund is a pile of ious that they borrowed from years ago. 71% of federal spending today is on entitlements and debt service. that is with zero percent interest rates. i'm the only person who put out a detailed plan to deal with entitlements and we'll save a trillion dollars over the next ten years. this is the difference between me and hillary clinton. what hillary clinton is going to say and has said before she wants to raise social security taxes. let me ask you a question, everybody. if somebody owns a landscaping

business and somebody has already stolen money from you, are you going to give them more? or are you going to say i'm going to deal with people doing well with benefits on the back end. we need to get realistic. the american people, forget about anybody else. they have already been lied to and stolen from. >> we promise we'll get to everybody. governor mike huckabee, i'll give you 60 seconds on this. i would really appreciate that. yes we've stolen and lied to the american people about social security and medicare. you know what we're not telling them? it's their money. this is not the government's money. this is not entitlement or welfare. this is money that people have confiscated out of their paychecks. every time they got money the government went in and took money before they ever saw it. now today congress decided to take another $150 billion away from social security so they can borrow more money. that maybes no sense to anybody. they say we'll fix this one day,

no they're not. it's like a 400-pound man saying i'm going to go on a diet but i'm going to eat a six-pounds bag of krispy kremes before i do. let's quit blaming the people on social security. let's quit making it a problem for them. it's like they're getting mugged and they're not saying well, we'll mug you some more you ought to be able to just get over it. get used to it. no, sir. we need to honor -- this is the only time i've had a chance. let me finish. this is a matter not of math, this is a matter of morality. if this country doesn't keep its promise to seniors, then what promise can this country hope to be trusted to keep? and the fact is, none of it. >> by the way, the only way -- the only way we're going to be moral. the only way we're going to keep

ou our promises to senior, treat them like adults and tell them the truth. it is not their money anymore, mike, they stole it. let's not try to give them promises we'll break. >> we're currently not having a beer -- >> but i'll buy you tequila, or even famous brownies -- >> do i get to respond? respond on the debt limit or in answer to the governor, whichever you choose. >> well, sure, the deal in washington is an example of why washington is broken. republican leadership joined with every single democrat to add $80 trillion to our debt to do nothing to fix the problems. we're getting into a good

substantive change. both chris and mike are right. governor mike huckabee is exactly right. we need to honor the promises made to our seniors. for younger workers, i'm 44 years old. it's hard to find somebody in my generation that thinks social security will be there for us. we can save and preserve and strengthen social security by making no changes for seniors but for younger workers gradually increasing the retirement age, changing the rate of growth so that it matches inflation and critically allowing younger workers to keep a portion of our tax payments in a personal account we own and we control and can pass onto our kids. >> 30 seconds, mr. huckabee. >> john, when i hear people talking about means testing just remember what that means. if we means test social security it means that the government decides whether or not i deserve it. but a person lives in a seven-room house does the

government get to say you don't need seven rooms, we're going to take two of them away. folks, the government has no business stealing from people paying this. people paid their money, they expect to have it. they are doing to people on social security what they have done to others. >> we'll take a break, the presidential debate live from boulder, colorado, comes right back after a break on cnbc.

♪ there are no medals won for earning a living. it's just what you do for family. but it's hard to build a future if you can't see past today. that's why walmart is investing in the most important part of our company - our people. because a raise in pay, raises us all. ♪

welcome back to the presidential debate for the republicans. we are live in boulder, colorado, right here on cnbc. folks, we'll get right back into this. mr. trump, let's talk a little bit about bankruptcies. your atlantic city casinos filed for bankruptcy four times, in fact, they were said to be serial filers. you said you did great in atlantic, but some of the individuals, the bondholders and others didn't fare so well. bankruptcy is a broken promise. why should the voters believe the promises that you're telling them now? >> well, first of all, very big businessmen, i could name them here, i'm not going to do this

for a lot of reasons. but almost all of them, they used the chapter law laws, the bankruptcy laws for their own benefit. before that, i was a very successful developer and businessman. atlantic city has gone bad, and chris will know about that. i am not blaming him, but he will know about that. ceasa ceasars', the roll's royce, in bankruptcy. i used it to my advantage for my family, i never filed bankruptcy. but many, many people did. what happened with atlantic city is very, very disgraceful. hundreds of companies i have opened. i have used it three or four times. came out great. but i guess i'm supposed to come out great. that is what i could do for the

c country, we owe 19 trillion -- boy am i good. atlantic city, hundreds of companies that i have opened have down great. i built a net worth of over $10 billion, and i am glad i did it. i used the laws of the country to my benefit, i'm sorry. >> mr. trump, thank you. >> in recent weeks, another pharmaceutical company has been accused of profiteering, for dramatically raising the profits of life-saving drugs. you have spent a lifetime in medicine. have these companies gone too far? should the government be involved in controlling some of these price increases? >> well, there is no question that some people go overboard when it comes to trying to make profits and they don't take into consideration the american people. what we have to start thinking about as leaders, particularly in government, is what can we do for the average american?

and you think about the reasons that we're having such difficulty right now with our job market. well, the average small manufacturer, whatever they're manufacturing, drugs or anything, if they have less than 50 employees the average cost in terms of regulations is $34,000 per employee. makes it a whole lot easier for them to want to go somewhere else. so what we're going to have to start doing instead of you know picking on this group or this group is we're going to have to have a major reduction in the regulatory influence that is going on. the government is not supposed to be in every part of our lives and that is what is causing the problem. >> thank you, dr. carson, governor christie. >> there is a lot of rhetoric that some of the people should have gone to jail for the financial crisis. but general motors paid more than a billion dollars in fines

and settlements for its ignition switch defect. 124 people died as a result of these faulty switches. no one went to jail. as a former prosecutor do you believe the people responsible for the switch and the cover-up belong behind bars? >> you bet they do. and if i were the prosecutor that is exactly where they would be. the fact is that this justice department under this president has been a political justice department, a justice department that decides they want to pick who the winners and losers are. they like general motors, they give them a pass. they don't like somebody like general petraeus, they have him resign in disgrace. jim, you know full well in the seven years i was u.s. attorney we went after pharmaceutical companies and after pharmacies that ripped off shareholders and we went after companies doing

things against the law. to expand on dr. carson's answer, we have enough laws. we don't need hillary clinton's price controls for again, does anybody out there think that giving washington the opportunity to run the pharmaceutical industry is a good idea? given how well they have run the government. what we do though, if there is somebody that is price gouging, i will make an attorney general who will enforce the law and make justice more than just a word. it will be a way of life. >> thank you, great christie. >> senator bush, in a debate like this four years ago every republican running for president pledged to oppose a budget deal containing any tax increase even if it had spending cuts ten times as large. you said you would take that deal, still feel that way? >> well, the deal was done,

barack obama got the massive increases, and there was more spending, more tax increasing. more regulation, and now we have to accept 2%, the new normal for economic growth. the net result is the middle class have $2300 less in their pockets than the day that barack obama got elected president. and now they say hillary clinton proposing a third term of economic policy for our country. we need to reverse that. and my record was one of cutting taxes each and every year. you don't have to guess about it because i actually have a record. $19 billion of tax cuts. 1.3 million jobs created. we were one of two states -- >> but to the point that you made to congress, if you were president and you were offered a bipartisan deal that had one dollar of tax increases per ten dollars -- would you take it? >> you find me a democrat that will cut spending ten dollars? heck, i'm a republican in congress that would cut spending

in ten dollars. >> you don't want them to fit you in -- >> the deal is gone, you find a democrat that is for cutting spending ten dollars, i'll give them a warm kiss. >> thank you, governor. >> mrs. fiorina, in 2010, while running for senate in california you called an internet sales tax a bad idea. traditional brick and mortar stores obviously disagreed. now that the internet shopping playing field has matured what would be a fair plan to even that playing field? >> you know i want to go back for a moment to what we just talked about. crony capitalism is alive and well in washington, d.c. what is crony capitalism? that is what happens when government gets so big and powerful that only the big and powerful can handle it. but why are the pharmaceutical companies consolidating? why are their five bigger wall

street banks now, more than what we used to have. when the government gets big and powerful, the government feels like they need to get bigger and even more powerful to deal with all that chaos. this is how socialism starts. government causes a problem, and then government steps in to solve the problem. this is why fundamentally we have to take our government back. the student loan problem has been created by government. government trying to level the playing field between internet and brick and mortar creates a problem. the fcc jumping in now saying we're going to put 400 pages of regulation over the internet is going to create massive problems, but guess who pushed for that regulation? the big internet companies. this is what is going on, big and powerful. use big and powerful government to their advantage. it's why you see walgreens buying rite-aid. why you see the pharmaceuticals

getting together and why you see the health insurance companies getting together and why you see the banks consolidating. meanwhile, small businesses are getting crushed. community-based businesses and farms are going out of business. big government savers, the powerful and wealthy crushes the others, it's why ywe have to become more simple and level the playing field between big and powerful and small and powerless. >> thank you very much. >> senator rubio, you yourself have said that you had issues, a lack of bookkeeping skills. you accidentally inter-mingled your money. in terms of all of that, it raises the question whether you have the maturity and wisdom to

work with the office? >> i'm going to tell you the truth. i didn't inherit any money. my dad was a bartender, my mother was a maid. they didn't save enough money for us to go to school. i had to work my way through. i tried to explain to my wife why somebody named sally may was taking money out of our bank kkt accounts. we own a home four blocks away from the place i grew up in. my four children received a good christian education and i've been able to save for them to go to college so they never have to have the loans that i did. i'm not worried about my finances, i'm worried about the finances of everyday americans who struggle in the economy that is not making good jobs. that is what this debate needs to be about.

this debate needs to be about the men and women who are struggling to provide for their families, the better future that we've always said what this country is about. >> i had a lot of student loans when i got out of school. you have had a windfall. >> i used the money from my book to pay off my loans. it's available in paperback. >> and liquidated that retirement account after that fact. it cost you about $24,000. >> as i said we're raising a family in the 21st century. one of the reasons why my tax plan is a pro-family tax plan. i didn't read about this in a book. i know for a fact how difficult it is to raise children and how expensive it is for working families. i make a lot more than the average american. imagine how it is for people making 40, 50, $60,000 a year trying to provide for their families. we can't afford another four

years of that. which is what we will get if we elect a big government liberal like hillary clinton to the white house. >> thank you, senator. >> governor john kasich, you talked about providing the export measure, you call it corporate welfare. one of the largest newspapers in your state read an editorial saying if that is corporate welfare, what does john kasich call the millions doled out to attract jobs by his development jackp development jobs in ohio. >> first of all when we talk about the import, export bank, it's time to clean up welfare, if we're going to reform welfare for poor people we ought to reform it for rich people. secondly, we went to a gain of 47,000 jobs to the positive. our wages are going faster than

the national average. i cut taxes more than any sitting governor in the state, $5 billion, including no taxes on small business and killing the death tax. i want to go back to what we talked about earlier, this budget deal in washington. this is the same old stuff since i left. you spend the money today and then you hope you're going to save money tomorrow. i don't know if people understand but i spent a lifetime with my colleagues getting us to a federal balanced budget. we actually did it. and i have a road map and a plan right now to get us the balance. reforming entitlements, cutting taxes. if you really want to get to a balanced budget, you need to grow your economy and cut taxes. our incentives are tight and at the end of the day we make sure that we gain more from the creation of jobs than what we lose. you know what? ohio, one of the best growing

places in the country, i not only did it in washington, i did it in ohio and i'll go back to washington and there will be no more silly deals, being we'll have a constitutional amendment to retire the members to do their job. >> senator cruz, working women in this country still earn just 77% of what men earn. you say you are sympathetic to our cause. also you said the democrats moved to try and change this, the political show votes. i just wonder what you would do as president to try to turn this cause? >> we have to turn the economy around. the democrats' answer is more government control over wages and more empowering trial lawyers to file lawsuits. when you look at women working, my sister was a single mom, both of my aunts who were a single mom. my mom was a single mom when my

father left us when i was 3 years old. now, thank god, my father was invited to a bible study and became born again and he came back to my mom and me and we were raised together. but the struggle of single moms is extraordinary. and you know, when you see hillary clinton and bernie sanders and all the democrats talking about wanting to address the plight of working women, not a one of them mentioned the fact that under barack obama 3.7 million women have entered poverty. not a one of them mentioned the fact that under barack obama and the big government economy the median wage to women has dropped $733. the the truth of the matter is, big government benefits the wealthy, the lobbyists, it benefits the giant corporations and the people getting hammered are small businesses. that is who i'm fighting for. the people that washington leaves behind. >> thanks. becky, it is the height of hypocrisy for mrs. clinton to

talk about being the first woman president when every single policy she espouses, and every single policy of president obama has been hugely bad for women. 92%, 92% of the jobs lost during barack obama's first term belonged to women. senator cruz is precisely right. three million women have fallen into poverty under this administration. the number of women living in extreme poverty is the highest level on record. i am a conservative. because i know our values our principles and our policies will try to lift everyone up. men and women. >> thank you, mrs. fiorina. >> dr. carson, we know you as a physician but we wanted to ask you about your involvement on corporate boards including costco's. last year, the market study

called the brand the number one gay-friendly brand in america, partly because of its domestic partner benefits. why would you choose to run a company that seems to have a counter view on matters? >> i believe that our constitution protects everybody, regardless of their sexual or regi orientation, there is no reason why you can't be perfectly fair to the gay community. they should not automatically assume because you believe that marriage is between one man and one woman that you are a homophobe. this is a myth that the left perpetrates on our society. the fact of the matter is, we the american people are not each

other's enemy. it is people who are trying to divide us that are the enemy. we need to make that clear to everybody. >> this is a company that is a maker of nutritional supplements, with which you had a ten-year relationship. they offered claims they could cure autism, cancer, and paid millions to settle a lawsuit in texas. yet your involvement continued. why? >> well, that is easy to answer, i didn't have an involvement with them. that is total propaganda. this is what happens in our society. total propaganda, i did a couple of speeches for them and other people. they were paid speeches. it is absolutely absurd to say i had any kind of relationship with them. do i take the product? yes, i think it's a good product. >> to be fair you were on the home page of their website with the logo over your shoulder. >> if somebody put me on their home page they did it without my permission. >> does that not speak to your

vetting process or process in any way -- >> no, it speaks to the fact i don't know -- >> they know. >> we will take a break, we'll be right back in boulder in just a minute. ♪ trying to predict the future is a discouraging and hazardous occupation. the only thing we can be sure of about the future is that it will be absolutely fantastic. so, if what i tell you appears absolutely unbelievable have you any chance of visualizing the future

as it really will happen. ♪

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there are no medals won for earning a living. it's just what you do for family. but it's hard to build a future if you can't see past today. that's why walmart is investing in the most important part of our company - our people.

because a raise in pay, raises us all. ♪ welcome back to the republican presidential debate on cnbc, live from boulder, colorado, at the university of colorado. senator mike huckabee -- i mean, excuse me, senator rubio. wired magazine recently carried the headline, marco rubio wants to be the tech industry's savior. it talked about h 1-b, designed for skills that silicon valley

wants. one source says it uses this to cut wages

>> i am the only person in either campaign that -- i am putting up 100% of my own money. and right now -- >> you better get rid of them. they are causing a lot of decisions to be made by some very good people, and i'm not blaming these folks, some very good people are making bad decisions right now. if in this caanything comes out nasty and ridiculous questions, you better get rid of the super pacs, because they're causing a

big problem not only with the dishonesty but also with the big lobbyists and special interests. >> you know, mr. trump -- >> just a follow up -- >> you talked a little bit about marco rubio. i think you called him mark zuckerberg's personal senator because he was in favor -- >> i never said this. >> this was a wrong article -- >> another gentleman in florida who happens to be a very nice guy. >> my apologies -- >> if i have been mentioned, can i respond? >> some of the democrats who have the ultimate media -- they're called the mainstream media. last week, hillary clinton admitted she sent e-mails to her family saying hey, this attack in benghazi was caused by al qaeda-like elements. she spent over a week saying it was because of a video.

the mainstream media is saying it was the greatest week in hillary clinton's campaign. it was the week she got exposed as a liar. but she has her super pac helping her out. the american mainstream media. >> senator rubio, i would like to introduce my colleague with comments as well. >> senator cruz, let's focus on our central bank, the federal reserve. arguing for more transparency. where do you want to take that? get congress involved in monetary policy or is it time to slap the fed back or down size them completely? what are your thoughts? >> i have deep concerns about the fed. the first thing i think we need to do is audit the fed. i am an original co-sponsor of rand paul's audit the fed legislation. the second thing we need to do is look at the bipartisan commission looking back at rules-based monetary policy and the star chamber that has been

engaging in this incredible experiment of quantitative easing, qe-1, 2, 3, infiniti. the people asking questions, it's interesting if you look at wall street, the fed is doing great. the top 1% earn a higher share of our income since 1928. but if you look at working men and women. at a single mom buying groceries, she sees burger prices going up nearly 40%. she sees her costs of electricity going up, she sees her health insurance going up and loose money is one of the major problems. we need sound money. and i think the fed should get out of the business of trying to juice our economy and simply be focused on sound money and stability. ideally tied to goals. >> same question for you.

>> thank you very much. i would like to thank ted for co-sponsoring my bill. it is precisely of someone with the arrogance of ben bernanke who now calls us know-nothings, that is precisely why we need to rewrite the fed. it is a huge problem that an organization as powerful as the fed comes in lobbying against them being audited on the hill. i would prevent them lobbying us. i think we should examine how the fed has really been part of the problem. you want to study income inequality. let's bring the fed forward and talk about fed policy and how it causes income inequality. let's also bring the fed forward and explain how they caused the housing crisis and make them explain. the fed has been a great problem in our society. you need to free up interest rates, interest rates of the price of money. we should not have price

controls on the price of money. >> thank you, senator. >> dr. carson. >> government subsidies, you say it interferes with the free market. but you said you're in favor of putting oil subsidies in favor of ethanol processing. isn't that just swapping one subsidy for another? >> first of all, i was wrong about taking the oil subsidy. i have studied that issue in great detail. and what i have concluded, that the best policy is to get rid of all government subsidies and get the government out of our lives and let people rise and fall based on how good they are. and all of this too big to fail stuff and picking and choosing winners and losers. this is a bunch of crap and is really causing a great deal of problems for our society right

now. you goes ba it goes back to the whole concept of regulations, which are in everything. the reason i hate them so much is that every single regulation costs in terms of goods and services. that gets passed on to the people. who are the people affected by that? middle class and poor people. not the rich, but it hurts the poor and middle class. and bernie sanders will tell them that it's because of the rich. well, i'll tell you something you can take everything from the top 1% and apply it to our fiscal gap and you won't even make a dip in it. >> governor mike huckabee, you discussed income inequality, saying some wall street executives should have gone to jail over the roles they played in the financial crisis. apart from your tax plan, are there specific steps you would require to reduce the income inequality. >> i don't think it's so much about when the government orders

a corporali corporations to do something, that is part of the problem, the blimp incident that happened today, a perfect example of government. basically a bag of gas, cut loose destroyed everything in its path, left thousands powerless but they couldn't get rid of it, because we had too much money invested so we had to keep it. that is our government today. we saw it in the blimp. that is exactly what we saw. so look, corporations ought to exercise some responsibility. when ceo income has risen 90% above the average worker, when the bottom 90% of this country's economy has had stagnant wages for the past 40 years, somebody is taking it in the teeth. and it's not the folks on wall street. i'm not anti-wall street, but i don't believe the government ought to wear a team jersey, pick winners and losers.

the government ought to wear a striped shirt and let everybody play fairly. now, everybody has gone over, don't cut me off too quickly, becky. >> okay, how about a few more seconds? >> we need to focus on what fixes this country. one thing we have not talked about tonight. why aren't we talking about instead of cutting benefits for old people, cutting benefits for sick people, why don't we saw let's cure the four big cost-driving diseases, diabetes, heart disease, cancer and alzheimer's. if you do that, you don't just change the economy, you transform the lives of millions of hurting americans. >> governor, thank you. >> gosh i would love for us to talk about something like that. thank you. >> appreciate it. >> governor bush, the tax reform bill that ronald reagan signed cut the personal tax rate to 28% just like your plan does. but president reagan taxed capital gains at the same rate while you would tax them at just

20%. given the problems we have been discussing, growing gap between rich and poor, why would you tax labor at a higher rate than income from investments? >> look, the simple fact is that my plan actually gives the middle class the greatest break, $2,000 per family. if you make $40,000 a year, a family of four, you don't pay any income tax at all. making it simple, for personal rates is exactly what we need to do. you think about the regulatory cost and tax cost that is why small businesses are closing rather than been reformed in our country. what i think all of us are saying is our monetary policy, the tax policy, regulatory policy needs to be radically changed so we can sustain high income growth. under barack obama and the proposals of bernie sanders and hillary clinton and others they tried it their way. it failed miserably.

we need to take a new approach reforming how we tax and reforming the regulations in our country before it's too late. >> and the tax foundation, they concluded that you give nearly twice as much of a gain in after-tax income to the top 1% as to people in the middle of the income scale. since you're the champion of americans living paycheck to paycheck, don't you have that backward? >> no, in fact, the largest is for the people at the lowest spectrum. number one, you have people in this -- >> tax foundation, just to be clear -- after tax -- >> you know the story, you had to go back and correct it. >> no, i didn't. >> senator, the tax foundation said after tax income for the top 1% under your plan would go up 27.9%. >> well, you're -- >> people in the middle of the income spectrum, about 15% --

>> because the math is, 5% of a million is a lot more than 5% of a thousand. so if somebody makes more money, it will be higher. but the greatest gains percentage-wise for people are going to be at the lower end of our plan. here is why, in addition to a general personal exemption, we're lowering taxes on small business. a lot of tax businesses in america, this man pays on his personal rate, paying higher than the big dry cleaner down the street, he is paying under his personal rate. under my plan, they will pay a flat rate, a dramatic decrease for people running their own business. one more point, it is the most pro-growth plan i can imagine because it doesn't tax investments at all. you know why? the more you tax something the less you get. i want america to be the best -- >> john, could i follow up on

this? >> we'll come back around. i want to get to governor john kasich. what are the rules on who gets to follow up? >> it was at the moderator's discretion. >> governor john kasich, let's talk about -- let's talk about -- >> i would like to mention something about my tax plan and how it relates to my discussion. >> sure, 30 seconds. >> all right, much of the discussion is centered offer whether or not the different tax plans help or affect the middle class. in fact, it's the chief argument by democrats against many of the different flat tax proposals. mine is unique in the sense that my tax plan actually gets rid of the payroll tax as well. it shifts it to the business and it would allow middle class people to get a tax cut. if you just cut their income tax there is not much income tax to cut. mine actually cuts the payroll tax and i think it would spread the tax cut across all

socioeconomic structures and would allow it to be broadly supported in an election. >> his plan is a good plan and i will note that my 10% plan also eliminates the payroll tax, eliminates the death tax, eliminates the business tax -- and 10% flat rate -- >> we're going to go to governor john kasich now. >> personal rate of any candidate up here has. it would help every citizen to fill out their taxes on a post card so we can eliminate the irs. >> okay, thank you, senator. governor john kasich, let's talk about marijuana. we're broadcasting from colorado which has seen $150 million in new revenue for theñr state sin legalizing last year. governor hickenlooper was not a big fan of legalization but he says the people who used to smoke it are still smoking it, just paying stack taxes now. >> we're running a $2 billion

surplus, we're not having a surplus right now. drugs is one of the greatest scourge in this country. i spent time to try to rein in the problem of overdoses. it goes on and on, we can do a whole show on that. i want to go back to this issue of income inequality. my program would move the 104 programs of the federal department of education into four block grants and send them back to the states because income inequality is driven by a lack of skills when kids don't get what they need to be able to compete and win in this country. the fact is in order to get this economy moving again i call for freezing regulations for a year. except for the problem of public safety. i believe that we need to cut these taxes down. we need to be on a road map to balancing the budget and we need to send power, money and influence.

the welfare department, the education department. job training, infrastructure, medicaid, all of it out of washington back to the states so we can run these programs from where we live to the top, not a one size fits all mentality that they have in washington. and that will get to the nub of opportunity for our children and an ability to see wages rise. again, one more time in ohio, our wages are growing faster than the national average. we've cut taxes, balanced budgets, changed the regulatory environment. >> thank you, governor, you want to fix america? this is the formula, it worked for reagan and works for our team in ohio. >> thank you, we'll be right back in just a moment from boulder, colorado.

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welcome back to the university of colorado and the presidential debate right here on cnbc. mr. trump, i'm going back to an issue we talked about before. i found that i read before it was from the donald j. trump website. and it says that again, mark zuckerberg's personal senator, marco rubio has built the triple h 1-bs, that would hurt women. are you opposed to it? >> i'm in favor of people coming

into this country legally. you know what, you can call it anything you want. visas, work permits, i created tens of thousands of jobs. actually, with all due respect to some of these people who i like a lot. i will create many millions of jobs if i'm given the opportunity to be president. as far as mark is concerned and as far as the visas are concerned, if we need people, that is fine. they have to come in to this country legally. we have a country of borders. we have a country of laws. we have to obey the laws. it's fine of they come in, but they have to come in legally. >> thank you, sir. >> that was -- >> you get 30 seconds. >> look, in addition to what donald is saying, we also need to talk about the legal immigration system for permanent residents. today we have a legal

immigration situation that is largely based on if you have family here. in 2016 we have a very different economy. our legalization system has to be based on merit base. what skills you have and whether or not you're coming here to not just live in america, but be an american. >> mr. trump, you said you have a special permit to carry a gun in new york? >> yes. >> after the mass shooting in oregon, you said by the way it was a gun-free zone. if you had a couple of teachers with guns, you would have been a lot better off. >> or somebody with guns. >> would you feel better if your employees brought them to work? >> yes, i might feel more comfortable. i would say that i would. and i have a permit, which is very unusual in new york, a permit to carry. and i do carry on occasion. sometimes a lot. but i like to be unpredictable. so -- >> and are you carrying right

now? >> by the way, unlike our country where we're totally predictable and the enemy, whether it's isis or anybody else, they know exactly what we're doing because we have the wrong leadership. but i feel that the gun-free zones and you know when you say that, that is target practice for the sickos, and for the mentally ill. that is target -- they look around for gun-free zones. and we could give you another example. the marines, the army, these wonderful six soldiers killed. two of them were the most highly decorated. they were not allowed on a military base to have guns and somebody shot them and killed them. i can tell you there wouldn't have been much damage. i think gun-free zones are a feeding frenzy for sickos. >> would you change policies?

>> i would change them. >> all right, thank you. >> john? >> governor mike huckabee, you wrote about the huge divide and values between middle america and the big coastal cities like new york and los angeles. as a politician, you know presidents need the moral authority to bring the entire country together. leading republican candidate when you look at the average national polls right now is donald trump. when you look at him do you see somebody like him with the moral authority to united the country? >> you know -- there are a few questions i got, the last thing i need is to give him more time. i love donald trump, he is a good man. i'm wearing a trump tie tonight. get over that one. now -- made in mexico, i don't know -- >> made in china? >> i have no idea. >> such a nasty question, but thank you, governor. >> you're welcome. >> let me tell you, donald trump would be a better president

every day of the week and twice on sunday rather than hillary clinton. i have spent a lifetime in politics fighting the clinton machine. you want to talk about what we're going to be up against next year. i'm the only guy this, you know how they have the only guy this, only guy that. let me tell you what i'm the only guy with, the only guy consistently fought the clinton machine every election i was in over the past 26 years. and not only did i fight them but i beat them. somebody says i'm a fighter. well, i want to know did you win? well, i did. not only did i fight them and win i lived to tell about it and standing on this stage tonight as evidence of that and i think that ought to be worth something. >> thank you, governor. >> i will tell you, you want to talk about moral authority. let's talk about something that happened this week in the news. you know, the fbi director, the president's appointed fbi director has said this week that because of a lack of support for politicians like the president

of the united states that police officers are afraid to get out of their cars and enforce the law. he says, the president's appointee, that crime is going up because of this. and when the president gets up to speak about this, does he stand for law enforcement? does he speak for law enforcement? no, he doesn't, i'll tell you what. the number one job of the president is to protect the safety and security of the american people. this president has failed. when i'm in the oval office, police officers will know they have the support of the police officers. that is real moral authority we need in the office. >> don't forget my colleague, sharon epperson. >> you were the ceo of a large corporation that offered 401(k) to their employees. more than half of americans don't have access to retirement pl plans. that includes the growing ranks of part-time drivers and uber

drivers, and business people. should the government help to set up retirement plans for these workers? >> no, the federal government should not play a larger role. look, every time the federal government gets engaged in something it gets worse. and then the government steps in to try to solve the problem and we get a little further down to that progression that hillary clinton is talking about. companies should, if they want to attract the best workers provide a good set of benefits. but honestly, if you're a small business owner today you are being crushed. we have 400,000 small businesses forming every year in the country. how great is that? they are employing themselves and potentially employing others. the bad news is, we have 470,000 going out of business every year. and why? they cite obamacare. >> you wouldn't agree to start

401(k) businesses for employees? >> i think it's a wonderful idea. the federal government should not be in a lot of things. there is no constitutional role for the federal government in setting up retirement plans. there is no constitutional law for the federal government to be setting minimum wages. the more the government gets engaged in the economy, the slower the economy becomes. the more the government gets engaged in the economy, the more the big, the powerful, the wealthy and the well-connected are advantaged. >> thank you. thank you, i want to turn my attention to you now, governor john kasich. most people can't get a college degree without going into debt. over 40 million americans have student loans and many of them cannot pay them back. this country has over $100 billion in student loan defaults. that is billion, with a b. what will you do to make sure that students, their families, taxpayers, won't feel the

economic impact of this burden for generations? >> well, first of all in ohio we're changing the whole system. universities will not get paid one dime unless the student graduates or completes a course. secondly, you can be in high school and complete almost an entire first year before you go to college and get credit to do that. and of course, in addition to that we are working now to go after the cost drivers in our universities. and let me give you an example. universities today have so many non-academic assets. at ohio state they sold the parking garage and the parking lot and they got $500 million because they should not be in the parking lot business. they should not be in the dining business or the dorm business. and of course, we need to take advantage of on-line education to reduce these costs and begin to dis-intermediate the cost. for those who have these big high costs i think we can seriously look at an idea of where you can do public service.

i mean legitimate public service and begin to pay off some of that debt through the public service that you do. and in the meantime, it may inspire us to care more about our country, more about ourselves. this is a big moral issue in america. living a life bigger than yourself and being a center of healing and justice and people can learn it through public service. >> thank you, thank you, higher education -- >> we don't need the federal government to be involved. because when they do we create a $1.2 trillion debt. in florida we have the lowest in-state tuition of any state. because there is accountability, as john said. let the states do this. you will create a much better graduation rate and wouldn't give the next generation the recourse on their back. >> it is broken, it is not working. >> governor john kasich, we have to move on. >> we can let them -- eliminate some of their debt.

>> governor bush, daily fantasy sports has become a phenomenon in this country. it will award billions in prize money this year. to play you have to assess your odds, wait for a situation that is out of your control. isn't that the definition of federal government -- >> i'm 7 and 0 in my fantasy league. gronkowski is still going strong. marco is my quarterback, he was 18 for 19 last week. so i'm doing great, but we're not gambling. this is something that needs to be looked at in terms of regulation. effectively it is day trading. when you have insider information which is apparently the case where people use that information and use big data to try to take advantage of it, there has to be some regulation. if they can't regulate themselves, then the nfl needs

to look at moving away from them. i have no clue if the federal government is the proper place, my instinct is to say hell no, just anything about the federal government. >> are re-- >> we are talking about getting government involved in fantasy football? wait a second, we have $19 trillion in debt, people out of work, isis and al qaeda attacking us and we're talking about fantasy football? can we stop? >> how about so? -- let's get the government to protect our people and support the american family. enough on fantasy football. let people play, who cares? >> i want to go back to the issues -- if i may -- >> governor christie you said something that many in your party do not believe, which is that climate change is

undenialabu undenialable. >> we don't do what john kerry, and hillary clinton and barack obama want to do, which their solution is put more taxes on and they will fix it. there is no evidence they can fix anything in washington, d.c. what we should do is invest in all types of energy, john. >> you mean government? >> no, john, do you want me to answer or do you want to answer? because -- i got to tell you the truth, even in new jersey what you're doing is called rude. so -- we laid out a national energy climate -- i tell you, you could win a bet at a bar tonight since we're talking about fantasy football, you talk about the top three states, california, arizona, they're

easy, but new jersey, we work with the private sector to make solar energy affordable to individuals in our state. we need to make sure we do everything we can for all kinds of energy. natural gas, also where it's affordable solar, wind in iowa is very affordable and it makes sense. that is where we deal with global warming, climate change, not through government intervention, and for god sakes, don't send washington more money. >> and in 1960s, ronald reagan warned that it would lead to socialism. considering the mounting cost of medicare, do you like or oppose it explosive. >> the question is always, what works better, the private marketplace or government? and what distributes goods better? it always seems to be that the

private marketplace does a better job? is there a better place for social security? you acknowledge that the federal government doesn't do a very good job of it. the main problem with medicare, the average person pays into taxes over their whole lifetime, about $100,000. but the average person takes out about $350,000. we have an enormous mismatch because we have smaller and smaller families. when people ask whose fault is it that medicare and social security is out of money? i say look, it's not republicans' fault, it's your grandparents' fault for having too many kids. after the war we had all of these kids, baby boomers. we used to have 16 workers for one retiree, now you have three workers for one retiree. it is not working. i have a bill to fix social security and medicare. for both of them, you're going to have to raise the age. if you're not willing to raise

the age you're not serious about either one of them. >> we'll take a break. we want to save time for closing statements after the break. this is the republican presidential debate in boulder and we'll be right back.

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welcome back to boulder, colorado, and the republican presidential debate right here on cnbc. governor mike huckabee, you wanted to respond to some of the points that senator rand paul was just making in response to medicare benefits. >> 85% of the cost of medicare is chronic disease. the fact is if we don't address what is costing so much we can't throw enough money at this. and it's why i continued to focus on the fact we need to declare war on the four big cost drivers. because 80% of all medical cost news th s in this country are chronic

disease. until we deal with the health of americans and do what we did with polio when i was a kid, we eradicated it. you want to fix medicare? focus on the diseases that are costing us the trillions of dollars, alzheimer's, diabetes, heart disease and cancer. eradicate those and you fix medicare. and you fix america, its economy and you've made people's lives a heck of a lot better. >> thank you, governor. >> the governor is right, we also need to reform medicare and social security. we can't just allow it to continue in its current path the way hillary clinton wants us to do. because there will be major reductions in benefits if we do nothing. i have a concrete man to do just that. which allows people to keep fhas that encourage savings. that allows for people retiring with social security to be able to get a minimum of 125% of the poverty level so that there is a

base line in this generous country of ours no one goes below. >> governor bush, mr. trump says that he is capable of growing the economy so much that social security and medicare don't have to be touched. do you want to explain how that is going to happen, mr. trump? >> yes, it is very simple. we'll make a really dynamic economy from what we have right now which is not at all dynamic. we'll bring jobs back from china, japan and mexico, whereas you probably saw nabisco is leaving chicago with one of their biggest plants and moving it to mexico. we're going to bring jobs and manufacturing back. we're going to cut costs and save social security and we're going to save medicare. >> governor, you just heard him. >> you have to reform social security and the simple way to do it is to make sure that the richest don't receive the same benefits as people that are lower income. and make sure you enhance

savings in the private market. the idea of 401(k)s. i have a small business that i set up. it took an arm and a leg to be able to set up 401(k). because of all the laws and federal mandates it was too expensive. we have to make sure that social security -- >> the idea that you can't -- you just grow your way out of this. you will have to make adjustments for both medicare and social security. >> governor, in my state, we took medicaid, the highest program to control. we took it from the 10% growth rate and cut it to 2%, without cutting a single benefit. and so much of what we did to force competition, to use technology, to stand down the special interest groups. can you imagine taking medicaid from 10 to 2.5%? we can take many of those same procedures and apply it through medicare. we can make a stronger program. i agree with jeb, you can't just do this by growing the economy. you can't grow your way out of

demographics. but we can give people better health care and finally on health care, why don't we start to give incentives for people to keep people healthy rather than giving the incentives to treat them when they're sick? >> governor, thank you. senator paul, let's go back to you. do these solutions sound like they work? >> say again? >> do these solutions sound like they work? >> you can't do nothing. i hear from people, well, we'll do nothing and it will fix itself. that is absurd, and people are missing the boat here when they don't want to change something. the age will have to rise, the only way you fix medicare and social security. you will also have to means test the benefits and declare there is not enough money. it is not oh, i put money in, i'm getting it back. there is no money, there is a stack of paper. there is no money in the social security account or the medicare account. there is only a promise to pay by the next generation and the next generation is not big

enough to pay it. >> we did it 200 days ago. >> i have a question for dr. carson. >> on medicare? >> yes, you said you would like to replace medicare with a system of individual family savings accounts so that families could cover their own expenses. obviously, that would be a very controversial idea. explain how that would work, obviously. >> well, first of all the plan gives the people the option of opting out. but i think they would see a very good option here. you know, the annual medicare budget is over $600 billion. and there are 48 million people involved. 40 million, 65 and over, and 8 million and others. divide that out. that comes out to $12,500 for each one. now, i can tell you there are a lot of private sector things that you can do with $12,500

which gets you a lot more than you get from this government program. that is really the theme of what i'm talking about. how do we use our intellectual abilities rather than allow the government to use the intellect, to be able to live healthier and better lives. it was never intended that the government should be in every aspect of our lives. this is a country that was up for and by the people. >> thank you, dr. carson. >> ben is absolutely right in saying what we don't need to do is to send more money to washington, d.c. to fix this problem. and that is what you will hear from hillary clinton. and i've already heard from her, send more money in social security and medicare taxes, send more money for medicaid and that will solve the problem. we know we're living longer. it's a blessing that we're living longer so we have to increase the retirement age to reflect that blessing. we need to make sure people understand that if you have done extraordinarily well in the country, do you want them to take more of your taxes now and think they will get it back to

you later or would you rather take less later on? >> do you think that dr. carson is right that we can replace money with individual savings accounts? >> what i said, his ideas are good ideas, not necessarily my ideas. i don't necessarily agree with them. this is what you see in the republican debate and you didn't see it in the democratic debate. they are trying to help reform the voter out there. what you saw was a parade of i'll give you this for free, i'll give you that for free, let me tell you everybody, when they say they want to give you something to free keep your hands on your wallet, because they're coming to you to pay for it. i think we need to have more discussions and less gotcha. >> i want to argue one of the same things, one of the things you're watching, 11 qualified candidates. the republican candidate has good candidates, the democratics

can't even come up with one. they're going to demagogue what we're saying here tonight. everybody talking about reform, i know i speak for this. we're all talking about reform for future generations. my mother is on medicare and social security. i'm against anything that is bad for my mother. so we're talking about -- we're talking about reform for people like me and people like senator cruz as he talked about earlier, who are years away from retirement. in a way that is very reasonable. it's not too much to ask of our generation after everything that our parents and grandparents did for us. >> a lot of people jumped in here, i would like to jump in. >> we're right at the end of our time. you only -- all right, go ahead. >> i would just say this, there are a lot of great ideas up here. and i agree with what senator rubio said. every election we talk about this. every election we talk about medicare and social security reform, it never happens. i would like to start with a

basic. let us actually go to zero base budgeting so we know where the money is being spent. it's kind of basic. there is a bill sitting in the house that would actually pass and have us go to zero base budgeting so we know where every dime of your money is being spent instead of only talking about how much more we're going to spend, year after year after year. my point is this, while there are lots of good ideas for reform we have never tackled the basics. and we finally need to tackle the basics to cut this government down to size and hold it accountable. so let's start by knowing where your money is being spent by the federal government. >> we have now reached the point of the program where the candidates get closing statements 30 seconds apiece. to the left, senator paul. >> liberty thrives when government is small. i want a government so small i can barely see it. i want a government so small that the individual has a chance to thrive and prosper.

i think government is too big now. what you will see in washington this week is establishment republicans have made an agreement with the president to raise the debt ceiling in an unlimited fashion. no limit to the debt ceiling raise. this is extraordinary, it is extraordinarily wrong. you will see me on the floor of the senate tomorrow filibustering it and saying enough is enough, no more debt into governor christie. >> i want to ask you, are you fed up with how washington wastes your money? are you concerned like i am that the debts and deficits of washington, d.c. are endangering america's future? i got one more question for you. are you serious about this election? because if you are you need to elect somebody who is very serious about changing this culture. i am deadly serious about changing this culture. i changed it in new jersey, and i'm deadly serious about changing it. i'm prepared, tested and ready and i want to make this our government.

to the people who say we can't do it. i say hell no, we can do it together. >> senator cruz. >> you know, everybody talking about the need to take on kan s washington, the natural next question is who actually stood up to democrats and leaders in our own party. when millions of americans rose up against obamacare, i was proud to lead that fight. when millions of americans rose up against amnesty, i was proud to lead that fight. when millions of americans rose up against planned parenthood i was proud to lead that fight. if people promise to stand up to cronyism, freedom is personal to me and i will always keep my word and fight for freedom. >> you know, every election we hear a lot of talk, we hear a lot of good plans. we hear actually a lot of good intentions. but somehow for decades nothing really has changed. what we need now is a proven

leader who has produced results. that is how you go from secretary to ceo. you lead and produce results. i will cut this government down to size and hold it accountable, simplify the tax code and roll back regulations that have been coming out of washington, d.c. for 50 years. i may not be your dream candidate just yet. but i can assure you i'm hillary clinton's worst nightmare. and in your heart of hearts, you can't wait to see a debate between hillary clinton and carly fiorina. i will tell you this, i will beat hillary clinton and with your prayers and support i will lead the citizens of this great nation. the resurgence of this great nation. >> thank you, dr. ben carson. >> i just want to thank all of my colleagues for being civil and not falling for the trap. and i want to thank the audience for being attentive and noticing

the questions and answers. this is what i'm finding throughout america, people are waking up. it will be us determining the direction of our country. it was made for we the people. we are the ones who decide who we are. and we should never give away the values and principles that made our nation great for the sake of political correctness. >> mr. trump? >> our country doesn't win anymore. we have used to win, we don't win anymore. we lose on trade. we lose with isis. we lost with one of the worst deals i have ever seen negotiated of any kind. that is our recent catastrophe with iran. we don't win. let me give you a terrific example. these folks at cnbc, they had it down to three and a half hours. i just read in "the new york times," $350,000 for a

third-second ad. nobody wants to watch three and a half or three hours. it was a big sacrifice. we have to hand it to ben, he was with me 100%. we called in, we said we're not doing it. they lost a lot of money, everybody said it would be three and a half hours, including them. and in about two minutes i re-negotiating it down to two hours so we can get the hell out of here. not bad. and i'll do that with the country. we will make america great again, and thank you everybody. >> just for the record, the debate was always going to be two hours. >> senator rubio, that was not right. you know that that is not right. >> senator rubio -- >> america doesn't owe me anything. i have a debt to america i will never repay. this is not just the country i was born in, this is the nation that literally changed the history of my family. my parents were able to give me the chance to do all the things they never did. we call it the america dream.

although it's built on a universal dream for every life. that is what makes it special. for millions of americans it's slipping away. we have leaders and the government out of touch. we can expand the government to reach people and change lives and that is why tonight i'm asking for your vote. >> thank you, senator, governor bush. >> america is at a cross roroad the d.c. politicians, i have a proven record, eight years as the governor of the state of florida. i will change the culture in washington just as i changed the culture in tallahassee and will do so in a way to bring people together. we need somebody to unify, not a divider in chief. imagine a country where people were lifted out of poverty again and a country where people can get rising income again. we can do this because we're still the most extraordinary country on the face of the

earth. thank you. >> thank you, governor, governor mike huckabee. >> and a lot of people in the media, this is a great big game and we're the players. and we come out here and do our things and sometimes we're held up in contempt by people who write columns, but i garlt you to every person on this stage there is something deep inside of us that would cause us to give up our livelihoods and step out on this stage and fight for the people in america. i have five grandkids. i do not want to walk my five grandkids through the charred remains of a once-great country called america and say here you go, $20 trillion in debt, good luck making something out of this mess. for those of us serious enough to run for president think long and hard why we're here and hopefully you will know we're not here for ourselves. we honest to god are here to get this country back on track. i know this, i certainly am. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> governor john kasich.

>> i was on morning joe at a town hall and a young student stood up and said can i still be ideaistic? i said absolutely, you can still change the world. you know the old motto, if you change one life you changed the world. folks, we have a problem here in washington, but we need to have stronger families and we need to know who our neighbors are. we need to come together as a country because we have to realize that america is great not from the top down, oh, yeah, we want to elect a good president. but america is great from the bottom up. and the bottom up is our families, communities, neighborhoods. we will renew america if we work together and i am totally confident that we will. and god bless america. >> thank you, governor. >> that concludes tonight's debate on behalf of my colleagues, becky quick, john harwood, sharon epperson.

we would like to thank our hosts, the republican national committee, the candidates, and of course, tonight's audience. cnbc joe kernen picks up our continuing coverage. >> thank you so much, carl, welcome everybody. joe is over in the arena talking to a number of the candidates and will join us shortly. meanwhile, i want to bring in sarah fagan and larry kudlow, your name is one of the first mentioned as donald trump talked about the taxes. >> mr. trump nailed it in his plan and i praised him for it. so that is true. i would do it again, not example breaking news. >> what did you think about the debate tonight? >> you know, it was not everything i hoped it would be, but it got a lot in. there was a lot of talk about tax reform and jobs and growth. it kind of went off center in a

few places. there was some talk about immigration and entitlement refor reform. >> what were the biggest movers? who stood out to you? who didn't stand out enough? >> well, i think the two senators did great tonight. senator cruz and rubio had very strong nights tonight. if you look at rand paul he really needed a moment and didn't really get one. i don't think john kasich had a great night. he set himself up to really sort of take on donald trump and ben carson, and while there was moment in the debate he kind of faded in the background. so those two did not have a great night, in my view. >> with respect to my friend, i would say john kasich had a great night. because i felt he presented his approach to growth. he wanted a balanced budget and make that clear. and wanted tax cuts which he did in ohio.

he was very alert and sharp. he took an attack from donald trump but survived that attack. i would give john kasich points. what did i want? i wanted growth and tax reform. i got it. >> hey, on that very note, let's get down to joe kernen in the arena now with donald trump. joe? >> yes, you're right. i am with mr. trump. you have done three of these now. your impression. >> >> well, i think the folks did a great job, i thought it was terrific and i had a lot of fun. >> i think everybody did very nicely. >> do you think the right balance was struck between attacking each other and attacking who is actually the enemy -- >> well, i thought that he looked at hillary clinton's deal a couple of weeks ago. the questions were much softer, easier, nicer. it was like a giant love fest.

that didn't take place over here, you would say that that is the way you want it to go. hillary clinton's questions were certainly a lot easier into there were ten candidates with really tough questions. >> i think i'm only comparing it to what hillary went through. maybe they negotiated a better deal than our folks negotiated. but i can tell you that was actually quite boring. i think this was more exciting. these were tougher questions. >> much more substantive. was there enough stauk about actual solutions? >> well, there was enough talk about conservatives and republicans, i think you had a lot of good ideas, really good ones. >> actually, you mentioned larry kudlow in the debate, do you think donald trump at this point earning more points being the renegade that you were at the

beginning or do some people think you need to become more mainstream to establish yourself with republicans? are you always yourself? >> i think i want to be myself, and be honest with myself. it's important, it got me here. as you know i had the number one position. i want to keep it here. it got me that way. i'm not going to change. but perhaps i'll tone it down a little bit. >> have you toned it down since the first debate? >> not trying to, but i'm very happy with the performance. people like what i saw, they agree with me whether it's immigration and illegal immigration. it has become a very big subject. if i didn't bring it up it wouldn't be discussed right now. it's a very important subject to discuss. my relationship with hispanics is fantastic. i had mostly a hispanic audience. it was an unbelievable love fest. my relationship with hispanics

is incredible. assuming i win this and run against hillary clinton, will i do very well against hillary clinton? i want to win with the hispanics because i have a very special relationship with them and employ thousands of hispanics. >> did you away in on the debt ceiling -- >> i've been watching what they're doing, they do it so easily, simply and it's so much money. we're already at 18 trillion. now they're going up to $20 trillion. they do it so quickly, so easily without negotiation. i think they should be ashamed of themselves. >> but you wouldn't be in favor of it -- >> i don't know why they have to always -- we're going to be up to $20 trillion. think of it. >> if we don't raise it and the government gets shut down -- >> i don't think you're going to have to do that one big problem is somebody looking into the future, it's always like a

one-week window. you start to talk about it as pressure, they start to talk about it tomorrow or the next two years, that is the kind of deal you're talking about. they start a week before it comes due. no, they should have cut and done a lot of other things. they have proven that it's too much money. >> there are times when popularism and conservatism are opposed. there are times you tread on both. it confuses some people. kite could the ttp be done in a way you would support it and reduce tariffs, and take a lot of people out of poverty? >> yes, they have to put particular clauses into this agreement. the single greatest rip-off is the currency problem, by japan and others.

they don't even discuss it. yes, they have to talk about the number one problem we have, which is currency manipulation. by the way, nobody does it better than china. >> what if they say you're unable to raise the interest rates -- >> i don't like seeing this dollar situation. they're not exporting because it's so high. one of the things, it's going to cause tremendous havoc with respect to trade and with respect to exporting. we are going to have a tremendous time -- if if want to buy something in europe, it's fabulous. but i like to spend my money in this country. >> i think i can get the three hours right now. >> i know, you're just about there. >> thank you. >> you're going to come on "squawk box"? >> yes. >> all right, that will do it. >> joe, i noticed that. joe kernen there, with donald

trump. appreciate the both of you. just a word quickly guys, before we go. sarah, larry, anything you heard from donald trump there, again, just final thoughts about the debate tonight? >> well, i think donald didn't have a great night. here is somebody who came in, has led every other debate, he comes in second place on this debate. i think ben carson is the leader of this race right now. and he really needed to contrast himself with ben carson, he didn't do that. he was flat. >> i'm easier on trump on this. again -- >> we praised you -- >> setting the corporate tax is a great measure. it's pro-growth. >> i don't want to cut off the conversation, we do need to let everybody know the season premiere of "the prophet" will be here on cnbc. if you want to get much more on the debate coverage, we'll bring it to you on cnbc.com, and all of our partners, a very special

premiere of "the prophet" begins right now. monis: small business- it's where so many american dreams begin. [ all cheer ] man: to a new beginning. lemonis: but the dream is the easy part. woman: it's not good. we're gonna bury ourselves. giovanni: [ voice breaking ] we can't keep going like this. -man #1: you're the problem. -man #2: i'm the problem? man #1: i'm the guy that's here every day! man #2: wait, what's your problem? man #1: and you're the guy that shows up once a month. lemonis: my name is marcus lemonis. man: oh, my god! you're here! oh, my god! lemonis: and i risk my own money to save struggling businesses. you should have called "hoarders" before you called me. in the last two years, i've visited over 30 companies across this country and put over $30 million on the line. -my offer is $1.7 million. -woman: wow. lemonis: i'm not just an investor -- i'm a partner, and i'll do whatever