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do you expect to be bringing in mueller and his team or mueller alone? >> well, mueller alone initially, and then mcgahn, and presumably others from his team, and other witnesses. there are a lot of questions we have to ask a lot of people and find out what's really going on, and to elucidate for the american people what is really going on. because the bottom line in this is not a fight between mueller and the trump administration or mueller and barr. the bottom line is, does the american people have the right to information with which they can make decisions in governing this as a democratic country? if you can vote but you have no information, if the information is guarded by the administration and you don't know what the administration is doing, you don't know what crimes they're committing, you don't know anything, then the vote becomes very hollow. that's why this is such a crisis for our democracy, and we have to -- we have to prevail here. we have never had a president who instructed people to ignore all subpoenas. and when you ignore a subpoena,
do you expect to be bringing in mueller and his team or mueller alone? >> well, mueller alone initially, and then mcgahn, and presumably others from his team, and other witnesses. there are a lot of questions we have to ask a lot of people and find out what's really going on, and to elucidate for the american people what is really going on. because the bottom line in this is not a fight between mueller and the trump administration or mueller and barr. the bottom line is, does the american...
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>> i thought bob mueller is doing exactly what bob mueller does best. he is a subtle communicator around the fact that there is no exoneration on obstruction of justice in this context with volume two of the report. you know, even in terms of volume one when it comes to that trump tower meeting on june 9th. he says in his report that one of the reasons they can't charge a campaign finance conspiracy is because of obstruction. so you also have to read the two volumes together and i think what he's saying is exactly as john said, it's like the evidence is there. i gave it to you. do something with it. do something and read it. >> gene, he was imploring the public to perhaps do more than many of our leaders ask, than certainly people often feel like the level of discourse. and here was a man who obviously feels that he's worked hard. he served his country. does he not want to be drawn into political sniping. he doesn't see the role as political. but he is asking us to do something. take a look at his request. >> beyond these few remarks it is important tha
>> i thought bob mueller is doing exactly what bob mueller does best. he is a subtle communicator around the fact that there is no exoneration on obstruction of justice in this context with volume two of the report. you know, even in terms of volume one when it comes to that trump tower meeting on june 9th. he says in his report that one of the reasons they can't charge a campaign finance conspiracy is because of obstruction. so you also have to read the two volumes together and i think...
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a shocking new story about robert mueller and the mueller report and what apparently robert mueller believes was the botched handling of his findings and his report on his investigation by trump administration attorney general william barr. now, i say this is shocking. that said, we had seen some rumblings along these lines soon after mueller turned in his report at the end of march, right? newly appointed trump attorney general william barr then started serially releasing multiple statements of his own, that he characterized as summaries of mueller's findings, peppered with his own fulsome musings on the fundamental innocence and good character of president trump, right? but on april 3rd, you might remember that there was some inklings that something like this might be going on behind the scenes. on april 3rd, "the washington post" and "the new york times" both reported that some personnel from the special counsel's office were known to be, were expressing shock and anger at the way barr was presenting mueller's findings. and the way he was substituting his own assertions about mueller's in
a shocking new story about robert mueller and the mueller report and what apparently robert mueller believes was the botched handling of his findings and his report on his investigation by trump administration attorney general william barr. now, i say this is shocking. that said, we had seen some rumblings along these lines soon after mueller turned in his report at the end of march, right? newly appointed trump attorney general william barr then started serially releasing multiple statements...
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mueller. and i can't predict what the american people are going to do and how they're going to process this information. we have a polarized country and so far everything having to do with the mueller report has fit into that pattern of polarization, whether this is going to figure in the same way who knows, but what is clear is that in terms of what the facts are, that the special prosecutor has taken the unprecedented, extraordinary step saying that the attorney general has misrepresented the nature and context of the most important investigation, federal investigation of the last 40, 45 years. and that is going to stick as part of the national record and presumably americans are going to debate it in a serious way. >> john, the judiciary committee chairman in the house, jerry nadler, obviously democrat, tweeted in light of this reporting mueller must be allowed to testify. do you think that's actually going to happen? do you think congress will get to see the letter? can mueller be stopped
mueller. and i can't predict what the american people are going to do and how they're going to process this information. we have a polarized country and so far everything having to do with the mueller report has fit into that pattern of polarization, whether this is going to figure in the same way who knows, but what is clear is that in terms of what the facts are, that the special prosecutor has taken the unprecedented, extraordinary step saying that the attorney general has misrepresented the...
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mueller restated his core findings. the russian interference in the 2016 presidential election here in the united states was clear and systematic. two, there was not enough evidence to charge a broader conspiracy between the trump campaign and russian meddlers. and three, if the special counsel could have said no obstruction as the president claims he did, he would have said so. listen to this. >> if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so. we did not, however, make a determination as to whether the president did commit a crime. the introduction to the volume two of our report explains that decision. it explains that under long standing department policy, a president cannot be charged with a federal crime while he is in office. that is unconstitutional. even if the charge is kept under seal and hidden from public view, that, too, is proprohibit >> the president says nothing changes from the mueller report, but the russian special counsel not on the same page as the
mueller restated his core findings. the russian interference in the 2016 presidential election here in the united states was clear and systematic. two, there was not enough evidence to charge a broader conspiracy between the trump campaign and russian meddlers. and three, if the special counsel could have said no obstruction as the president claims he did, he would have said so. listen to this. >> if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have...
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mueller is not saying that. mueller is saying what you did is you mischaracterized our findings, our evidence as presented. that's what bill barr is going to have to answer for today. both in the four-page summary and later, remember that press conference that bill barr gave before releasing the full report, it wasn't just about getting the report out there, he very clearly was making an argument in the president's favor as to the findings of that report and what bob mueller is saying, that does not accurately reflect what we put together in this report. you have the right to make the decision on whether to prosecute, but you did not tell the american people in the correct way, in the most full some way what our findings were and barr has to answer that and i think ultimately bob mueller has to be willing to speak in public and answer questions about this. i wonder if bill barr didn't see this coming. he's been around a few decades. he knew that bill barr is sitting in a political position appointed about i this
mueller is not saying that. mueller is saying what you did is you mischaracterized our findings, our evidence as presented. that's what bill barr is going to have to answer for today. both in the four-page summary and later, remember that press conference that bill barr gave before releasing the full report, it wasn't just about getting the report out there, he very clearly was making an argument in the president's favor as to the findings of that report and what bob mueller is saying, that...
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with mueller, don't obstruct mueller. if trump had nothing to fear, he had nothing to fear from mueller. well, it turned out that trump didn't do anything wrong. the whole russia conspiracy was a hoax. now if james comey did nothing and the f.b.i. did nothing wrong and it's all purely innocent john durham, a career prosecutor will find that. the american people want to get to the bottom of it. there is a poll that just came out that said americans are sick of investigations, 65% say we shouldn't impeach donald trump. 60% believe there was no obstruction and 58 say given the mueller report we should move on and turn the page on the trump investigations. the one exception is they want to get to the bottom of how this trump/russia probe began. 55% of americans believe that there was bias against donald trump that was involved in the decision to start this probe and 61% support appointing a special counsel to get to the bottom of it and that's significant because trump's approval is only 43%. that means that millions of ameri
with mueller, don't obstruct mueller. if trump had nothing to fear, he had nothing to fear from mueller. well, it turned out that trump didn't do anything wrong. the whole russia conspiracy was a hoax. now if james comey did nothing and the f.b.i. did nothing wrong and it's all purely innocent john durham, a career prosecutor will find that. the american people want to get to the bottom of it. there is a poll that just came out that said americans are sick of investigations, 65% say we...
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mueller. and so whatever he has to say today will be of dramatic interest. and you have to believe that there is something important that he feels he has to communicate. now, he's been invited to testify before congress and those investigations have been ongoing. so far no deal has been reached. it's been reported he's wanting to testify for the most part behind closed doors and it's not clear why that is. today, stephanie, we will hear from robert mueller publicly. now we've been told he will not take any questions from journalists. he's simply going to make a statement and then that will be it. there will be no opportunity for journalists' questions. >> ken, stay in position. we must hear from the white house. let's bring in peter alexander. peter, as i understand the white house was not caught off guard. does that mean they're okay with this? >> well, it's worth noting i just hung up the phone with an official here at the white house, i asked him that very question, were you notified that r
mueller. and so whatever he has to say today will be of dramatic interest. and you have to believe that there is something important that he feels he has to communicate. now, he's been invited to testify before congress and those investigations have been ongoing. so far no deal has been reached. it's been reported he's wanting to testify for the most part behind closed doors and it's not clear why that is. today, stephanie, we will hear from robert mueller publicly. now we've been told he will...
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what did you think of the significance of the way that bob mueller, being vintage mueller came out and basically said, my report speaks for itself, i'm not going beyond it today. i wouldn't go beyond it if i have to go to congress and take my report for what it says. >> i think there were two takeaways for me. one was over to you madam speaker. he's laid out the evidence. he talked about the report. he said that our system based on the olc guidance and the precedence that comes from that, we have other remedies, and the other remedy is the constitutional provisions about impeachment and possible conviction. that seemed self-evident to me. the other i thought it was striking that he said if we believe the president had not committed a crime, we would have said so. there's something slightly orwellen about that. it was pretty clear to me, listening both with the historical hat on and just also as a citizen, this is a serious man. he believes he and his team found serious matters to adjudicate, but he did not feel he had the capacity, the constitutional capacity to adjudicate those. and i
what did you think of the significance of the way that bob mueller, being vintage mueller came out and basically said, my report speaks for itself, i'm not going beyond it today. i wouldn't go beyond it if i have to go to congress and take my report for what it says. >> i think there were two takeaways for me. one was over to you madam speaker. he's laid out the evidence. he talked about the report. he said that our system based on the olc guidance and the precedence that comes from that,...
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so the mueller we know is the mueller we're hearing about now. i predict we'll hear in full in testimony on the hill. >> to frank's point, matt, the motivation here seems to be the motivation of everyone who's been toting for the president, which is please the boss. and the boss liked what bill barr did. we know that from reporting. we know he's going around the white house saying finally i've got this guy, he's better than sessions. he fundamentally succeeded in this brazen kind of con job for a month. the only thing that anyone knew about this thing, this 440-page document that had been in the works for two years, was the four-page summary he wrote. >> yeah, that's right. i hear this question asked all the time. why would bill barr, someone who's completely respected, who'd had a successful time as attorney general in the past, why would he come in here and do this for donald trump? why would he sacrifice his own integrity? >> they all do! >> that's exactly the right answer. they all do. also, i don't think he cares. he had one job here. that w
so the mueller we know is the mueller we're hearing about now. i predict we'll hear in full in testimony on the hill. >> to frank's point, matt, the motivation here seems to be the motivation of everyone who's been toting for the president, which is please the boss. and the boss liked what bill barr did. we know that from reporting. we know he's going around the white house saying finally i've got this guy, he's better than sessions. he fundamentally succeeded in this brazen kind of con...
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mueller. so preliminamr. mueller said i comment further on actions of congress, his way of saying i'm not going to talk about impeachment. on the other hand, what he didn't do today is take impeachment or further house investigations off the table. what he said to americans was read my report. i could not take a position one way or the other on the president's obstruction of my investigation, but that doesn't mean i didn't collect evident that might help you come to a conclusion one way or the other. the last take away for me is that mr. mueller didn't want his report to be the end of the story. it was the end of the story of his investigation, but not the end of the story of looking into these matters. he wanted us to keep foremost in our minds that a foreign government had sophisticatedly intervened in our 2016 election which means they might do it again. and two he was telling us that the evident that he brough together and preserved could be used by future grand juries and prosecutors. he did not take off
mueller. so preliminamr. mueller said i comment further on actions of congress, his way of saying i'm not going to talk about impeachment. on the other hand, what he didn't do today is take impeachment or further house investigations off the table. what he said to americans was read my report. i could not take a position one way or the other on the president's obstruction of my investigation, but that doesn't mean i didn't collect evident that might help you come to a conclusion one way or the...
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go fire mueller. and saying, have him removed based on conflict. >> this is not -- this is what the mueller report said. chris christie recalled a telephone conversation with the president in which the president asked what he thought about firing the special counsel. christie advised against doing so because there was no basis to fire the special counsel. this is the mueller report, the word fire is in there, and because the president would loose support from republicans in congress if he did so. the headline is around donald trump's efforts to fire the special counsel. >> that was answer. one way to look at barr's answers today. ever answer he was looking for, what is the thing the president would want me to say? what would most help the president? you saw him giving the benefit of the doubt to the president and others that the department would never give to others. you saw it in the question about paul manafort and his conduct towards paul manafort when he said he wasn't just attacking flippers, it'
go fire mueller. and saying, have him removed based on conflict. >> this is not -- this is what the mueller report said. chris christie recalled a telephone conversation with the president in which the president asked what he thought about firing the special counsel. christie advised against doing so because there was no basis to fire the special counsel. this is the mueller report, the word fire is in there, and because the president would loose support from republicans in congress if he...
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and this was obviously an effort by mueller to document mueller's concerns. i think we all know that bob mueller has been a professional, he doesn't do things lightly. he doesn't contract out his work. and so for the attorney general to call his letter "snitty" just reveals the fact that the attorney general really never gave the mueller report its full due and decided to go on a spin mission. that was what that four-page memo was all about. and mueller called him on it. and now you've got the attorney general misleading congress and the public on both counts. both in the four-page memo and mueller's letter. >> so the attorney general today defended his release of the four-page letter, his four-page memo. he compared it to offering a verdict in a trial, just the bottom line, basically, not guilty of this, not guilty of that. and figured that since he was going to release almost the entire mueller report, the rest of the information would come out eventually. what did you make of that description? >> i thought he did a lousy job justifying why he, the attorney
and this was obviously an effort by mueller to document mueller's concerns. i think we all know that bob mueller has been a professional, he doesn't do things lightly. he doesn't contract out his work. and so for the attorney general to call his letter "snitty" just reveals the fact that the attorney general really never gave the mueller report its full due and decided to go on a spin mission. that was what that four-page memo was all about. and mueller called him on it. and now...
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and mueller himself. i mean, you know, lawyers know how to parse things. but lawyers are also human beings who speak the english language. and you can't compare those two answers and know the facts as we now know them. mueller, having taken this extraordinary step in the legal world to write a letter like mueller did to barr, is like throwing a bomb. i mean, that's how dramatic it is. and the idea that barr could then answer a question saying, well, i don't know how mueller feels. come on. it's just not true and he -- his efforts to dig out from it today struck me, at least, as unsuccessful. >> and gloria, look at the timeline here, that four-page letter that was originally released march 24th. on march 25th, mueller first informs the justice department of his concerns and then a couple of days later, on march 27th, he puts those concerns in writing to barr. does that mean barr was lying in april when he told congress, under oath, he didn't know if mueller supported his conclusions. >> yeah. i mean, look,
and mueller himself. i mean, you know, lawyers know how to parse things. but lawyers are also human beings who speak the english language. and you can't compare those two answers and know the facts as we now know them. mueller, having taken this extraordinary step in the legal world to write a letter like mueller did to barr, is like throwing a bomb. i mean, that's how dramatic it is. and the idea that barr could then answer a question saying, well, i don't know how mueller feels. come on. it's...
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a journalist who wrote the book on robert mueller tweeted today, mueller is in his own mueller-like way screaming for presidential impeachment proceedings. he is too respectful to say it as directly as america and congress needs him to say it. it's hard to argue. reading between the lines, mueller came before the american people and said, the president is a criminal and there's not a damn thing i can do about it, but congress can. joining me now for more on the public statement are walter dellinger and frank figluci. frank, let me start with you. we're in a position where we have the man's words, but they are carefully parsed and intended to remain neutral. what is your read of what he did today, the intent and purpose? >> if you know mueller, you know that today was remarkable for him. by that i mean, he had to make the decision that he would go outside the system, he would not testify before congress, he would not file a written report, he would stand inside the department of justice and make his own statement and take control. and that for him is remarkable. his measured tone, which
a journalist who wrote the book on robert mueller tweeted today, mueller is in his own mueller-like way screaming for presidential impeachment proceedings. he is too respectful to say it as directly as america and congress needs him to say it. it's hard to argue. reading between the lines, mueller came before the american people and said, the president is a criminal and there's not a damn thing i can do about it, but congress can. joining me now for more on the public statement are walter...
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mueller rarely speaks publicly. and has a reputation of choosing his words very carefully and he chose to close his ten-minute statement with these words of warning on russia. >> and i will close by reiterating the central allegation of our indictments, that there were multiple systematic efforts to interfere in our election. and that allegation deserves the attention of every american. >> cnn chief national security correspondent and anchor jim sciutto whose book out now called "the shadow war" takes us inside of the efforts to defeat america. you wrote the book about this and to think that is how mr. mueller chose to end his whole moment today -- >> every american should pay attention. and that is a message to us, frankly also a message to our leaders among them the president, right, who has not been at the forefront of this issue to say the least. because for many years he has denied that this election interference happened or that it was significant enough to matter, right? and it has not made it a priority if t
mueller rarely speaks publicly. and has a reputation of choosing his words very carefully and he chose to close his ten-minute statement with these words of warning on russia. >> and i will close by reiterating the central allegation of our indictments, that there were multiple systematic efforts to interfere in our election. and that allegation deserves the attention of every american. >> cnn chief national security correspondent and anchor jim sciutto whose book out now called...
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>> i think we're all officially waiting for mueller. joe? >> we are waiting for mueller. it will be fascinating to see what happens. certainly a lot of focus today on whether you want to call it a lie or misleading answer -- >> misdirected. >> the lack of transparency will be focused upon by members of the united states congress today. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. thank you very much, mika. hi, there, i'm stephanie ruhle. wow, what a morning. within this hour attorney general bill barr will arrive on capitol hill to appear before the senate judiciary committee. the already-high stakes now ramped up to 11 after last night's stunning revelation of a confidential letter robert mueller wrote to barr complaining the attorney general mischaracterized mueller's report. >>> plus, chaos continues in caracas. we will go live to venezuela as the push to get maduro out grows even stronger. >>> as we're keeping our eyes on 2020. poll after poll shows joe biden with a clear lead. steve kornacki is here to dig in to what the numbe
>> i think we're all officially waiting for mueller. joe? >> we are waiting for mueller. it will be fascinating to see what happens. certainly a lot of focus today on whether you want to call it a lie or misleading answer -- >> misdirected. >> the lack of transparency will be focused upon by members of the united states congress today. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. thank you very much, mika. hi, there, i'm...
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in the blank, mueller? marine combat captain from the vietnam war from before testifying before congress. >> that's a good question, i am not a lawyer. mr. mueller will not remain an employee of the justice department forever. the likelihood that he'll testify before congress is exceedingly high. it is just a question of how much tension will there between the administration and when it happens and what he's allowed to say and whether or not he ends up just taking matters into his own hands. i believe that tonight's episode in which it was strategically led out there that he was dissatisfied of bill barr's summary of his findings, really reflect. he has to have watched other people talk about what he has produced and silent himself. we get the sense that it will soon change. katy, ill goi am going to play exchange with barr at the hearing and i am going to ask you when we come back what makes it notable. >> the letter of the 24th, mr. mueller's team did not play well in drafting that document. although he o
in the blank, mueller? marine combat captain from the vietnam war from before testifying before congress. >> that's a good question, i am not a lawyer. mr. mueller will not remain an employee of the justice department forever. the likelihood that he'll testify before congress is exceedingly high. it is just a question of how much tension will there between the administration and when it happens and what he's allowed to say and whether or not he ends up just taking matters into his own...
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but a bit about the mueller report. who is mueller? for those who may not know, i don't know where you've been, but you may not know, bob mueller has a reputation in this town and throughout the country as being an outstanding lawyer and a man of the law who was the f.b.i. director, deputy attorney general, he was in charge of the criminal division at the department of justice, he was a united states marine, and he has served his country in a variety of circumstances long and well. for those who took time to read the report, i think it was well written, very thorough, and let me tell you what went into this report. there were 19 lawyers employed, approximately 40 f.b.i. agents, intel analysts, forensic accountants and other staff. 2800 subpoenas issued, 500 witnesses interviewed, 500 search warrants executed, more than 230 orders for communication records so records could be obtained. 13 requests to foreign governments for evidence, over $25 million spent over two years. we may not agree on much, but i hope we can agree that he had amp
but a bit about the mueller report. who is mueller? for those who may not know, i don't know where you've been, but you may not know, bob mueller has a reputation in this town and throughout the country as being an outstanding lawyer and a man of the law who was the f.b.i. director, deputy attorney general, he was in charge of the criminal division at the department of justice, he was a united states marine, and he has served his country in a variety of circumstances long and well. for those...
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but a bit about the mueller report. who is mueller? for those who may not know -- i don't know where you've been, but you may not know. bob mueller has a reputation in this town and throughout the country as being an outstanding lawyer and a man of the law who is the fbi director, who is the deputy attorney general, who is in charge of the criminal division at the department of justice. he was a united states marine. and he has served his country in a variety of circumstances long and well. for those who took time to read the report, i think it was well written, very thorough. and let me tell you what went into this report. there were 19 lawyers employed. >> approximately 40 fbi agents. intel analysts. forensic accountants and other staff. 2,800 subpoenas issued. 500 witnesses interviewed. 500 search warrants executed. more than 230 orders for communication records, so the records could be obtained. 13 requests to foreign governments for evidence. over $25 million spent over two years. we may not agree on much, but i hope we can agree
but a bit about the mueller report. who is mueller? for those who may not know -- i don't know where you've been, but you may not know. bob mueller has a reputation in this town and throughout the country as being an outstanding lawyer and a man of the law who is the fbi director, who is the deputy attorney general, who is in charge of the criminal division at the department of justice. he was a united states marine. and he has served his country in a variety of circumstances long and well. for...
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that scathing rebuke in mueller's letter to barr after mueller did that four-page summary where mueller says, you mischaracterized our report. it failed to capture the nature, contents and substance -- >> will you continue to work with the attorney general going forward if you think he should resign? >> i absolutely have an obligation to work with him. i will continue to work with him and the department of justice. i'm a member of the judiciary committee. i believe in the rule of law not the rule of trump. we'll work together >> i don't think you will get a chance to question robert mueller yourself because lindsey graham said he's done with this. i expect robert mueller to testify before congress. likely the house side, probably the house judiciary committee. we are not sure yet. what i want to know is if you could ask robert mueller one or two questions, what would they be? >> i am still hopeful that we will have the opportunity in the senate judiciary committee to question robert mueller. i still have hope and faith in my republican colleagues that they'll want to do the right thing
that scathing rebuke in mueller's letter to barr after mueller did that four-page summary where mueller says, you mischaracterized our report. it failed to capture the nature, contents and substance -- >> will you continue to work with the attorney general going forward if you think he should resign? >> i absolutely have an obligation to work with him. i will continue to work with him and the department of justice. i'm a member of the judiciary committee. i believe in the rule of...
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one of them backed by robert mueller and the mueller investigation, at one point the attorney general saying how did we get here, where the president is being accused of all of these horrible things. and he a case to make in the sense that the president was accused of a lot of things that the mueller report didn't bear out. but also volume one of the mueller report explained how we got here. all of the contacts, all of the efforts by the russians to interfere in the election. >> but you heard the democrats repeatedly question his credibility. we're not talking about mueller, we're talking about the attorney general of the united states. the statements he made, the original four-page letter that was released followed, he got a separate letter from mueller in which he questioned substantively so much of what bill barr had originally said and resulting in several members, now several democrats and democratic presidential candidates saying that bill barr at a minimum should resign. >> that is right. there were three democrats on the committee running for president, amy klobuchar and kamal
one of them backed by robert mueller and the mueller investigation, at one point the attorney general saying how did we get here, where the president is being accused of all of these horrible things. and he a case to make in the sense that the president was accused of a lot of things that the mueller report didn't bear out. but also volume one of the mueller report explained how we got here. all of the contacts, all of the efforts by the russians to interfere in the election. >> but you...
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then the report gives analysis from mueller and mueller's prosecutors. that analysis reads as follows: a, obstructive act. as with the president's firing of comey, the attempt to remove the special counsel would qualify as an obstructive act if it would naturally obstruct the investigation. and any grand jury proceedings that might flow from the inquiry. even if the removal of the lead prosecutor would not prevent the investigation continuing under a new. appointee, a fact finder would need to consider whether the act had the potential to delay further actions in the investigation. chill out actions of any replacement special counsel or otherwise impede the investigation. a threshold question is whether the president, in fact, directed mcgahn to have the special counsel removed. after news organizations reported that that in june 2017 the president had ordered mcgahn to have the special counsel removed, the president publicly disputed these accounts and privately told mcgahn that he had simply wanted mcgahn to bring conflicts of interest to the departmen
then the report gives analysis from mueller and mueller's prosecutors. that analysis reads as follows: a, obstructive act. as with the president's firing of comey, the attempt to remove the special counsel would qualify as an obstructive act if it would naturally obstruct the investigation. and any grand jury proceedings that might flow from the inquiry. even if the removal of the lead prosecutor would not prevent the investigation continuing under a new. appointee, a fact finder would need to...
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mueller has to say. one thing i can tell you from my own personal experience in my time covering the justice department and the supreme court, bob mueller appears to be at least reasonably fond of making exit statements. and i know that because i interviewed him when he left the fbi in a round robin with a number of other journalists from around town. so the question, of course, we've been told for a while that he was about to leave any day now. the question is whether this would be the appropriate time for mr. mueller to make an exit statement, if you will, as he leaves the office of the special counsel. that's just based on past experience and no direct knowledge, though i have raised the question with the office of the special counsel, jim. >> interesting possibility. and again, as you say, we don't know. but is that what he's going to say? that he's completed his work and now's his time to go home? open question. we'll know in 52 minutes. a little less than that. david gergen is joining us now. he's
mueller has to say. one thing i can tell you from my own personal experience in my time covering the justice department and the supreme court, bob mueller appears to be at least reasonably fond of making exit statements. and i know that because i interviewed him when he left the fbi in a round robin with a number of other journalists from around town. so the question, of course, we've been told for a while that he was about to leave any day now. the question is whether this would be the...
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mueller's complaint to barr. what was he upset about in that four paige summary. >> he's saying the public doesn't you saunderstand our wo. that's what he says in the letter and in the follow-up phone call with the attorney general. remarkable he felt he had to write a letter about this. that memorializes the issue. the they are far apart on this. the attorney general and the special counsel and that is what the letter shows. >> so mueller's complaint is not about the volume 1 effectively of the mueller report which is on that question of conspiracy. >> correct. >> he could not establish a conspiracy between the trump campaign and the russian government. his complaint was the -- from attorney general barr about obstruction of justice. >> this is about the obstruction issue and mueller's work on obstruction. i've been told there was this no meaningful discussion or damms about the collusion, conspiracy question. the this is all about obstruction and mueller's feeling the public was not understanding what they foun
mueller's complaint to barr. what was he upset about in that four paige summary. >> he's saying the public doesn't you saunderstand our wo. that's what he says in the letter and in the follow-up phone call with the attorney general. remarkable he felt he had to write a letter about this. that memorializes the issue. the they are far apart on this. the attorney general and the special counsel and that is what the letter shows. >> so mueller's complaint is not about the volume 1...
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mueller fired. trump also denied this and today barr seemed to as well. >> the president never directed him to fire and there is a distinction between saying to someone, go fire him, go fire mueller, and saying, have him removed based on conflict. >> in his report, mueller also detailed evidence indicating trump attempted to get rid of the special counsel with the corrupt intent of curtailing the investigation. trump has suggested he could have fired mueller because he believed the investigation to be a witch hunt, which you may have heard. here is what barr told the committee today on that front. >> if the president is being falsely accused and he felt that this investigation was unfair, propelled by his political opponents, and was hampering his ability to govern, that is not a corrupt motive for replacing an independent counsel. >> barr's appearance came just hours after we learned that mueller had, in fact, written the a.g. in late march, suggesting that barr misled the public with his four-page
mueller fired. trump also denied this and today barr seemed to as well. >> the president never directed him to fire and there is a distinction between saying to someone, go fire him, go fire mueller, and saying, have him removed based on conflict. >> in his report, mueller also detailed evidence indicating trump attempted to get rid of the special counsel with the corrupt intent of curtailing the investigation. trump has suggested he could have fired mueller because he believed the...
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so bob mueller's job was over. i thought it was inappropriate, candidly, for bob mueller to write a letter to bill barr because bill barr has total discretion as to what -- and you know that is a fact. he has -- let me finish. he has total discretion as to whether to print a summary, to send out pieces of the report, or to send out the entire report. and for him to do that, to me, was grandstanding because he knew this letter would eventually -- >> okay. let him answer. >> this idea that somehow bill barr is doing us a favor by acting in the matter of transparency on a matter of fundamental importance -- >> it's not required by the law. >> lots of things aren't required by the law. but a matter of importance to the american people. it was very important that -- the whole point of mueller's mandate here was ensuring public faith in our investigative system. that's what he was trying to do. that was undermined by a number of the steps the attorney general took. >> okay. let me bring in garrett because if only we had
so bob mueller's job was over. i thought it was inappropriate, candidly, for bob mueller to write a letter to bill barr because bill barr has total discretion as to what -- and you know that is a fact. he has -- let me finish. he has total discretion as to whether to print a summary, to send out pieces of the report, or to send out the entire report. and for him to do that, to me, was grandstanding because he knew this letter would eventually -- >> okay. let him answer. >> this idea...
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it gives mueller. meanwhile, he stood up there and kind of tried to say, "it's been great being here, i'm riding off into the sunset now. i'm not testifying any longer. i don't want to say anything more. i'm not even going to answer questions here. i'm going to go on with my life." what are the odds of that? >> actually, i think they were pretty good. because he definitively said that even if he is called to testify -- in other words, given a subpoena or compelled to testify -- that he is not going to say anything beyond what is in the 400 plus pages of his report. in other words, saying the work stands for itself. if you're going to go down that road and democrats agree to call him and that's what they get, is the report text, i don't know how fruitful or time-consuming that might be. >> melissa: that's what this was kind of supposed to be, and that's what attorney general barr's summation was supposed to sort of be. "here is the hitchhikers guide to this report." but yet the way the two of them both
it gives mueller. meanwhile, he stood up there and kind of tried to say, "it's been great being here, i'm riding off into the sunset now. i'm not testifying any longer. i don't want to say anything more. i'm not even going to answer questions here. i'm going to go on with my life." what are the odds of that? >> actually, i think they were pretty good. because he definitively said that even if he is called to testify -- in other words, given a subpoena or compelled to testify --...
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mueller did that, his team did that. wouldn't that be what they wanted people to understand about their investigation? mueller reportedly even suggested some redactions, going on to say in his letter that the process of making redactions, quote, need not delay the release of the enclosed materials. release at this time would alleviate the misunderstandings that have arisen and would answer congressional and public questions about the nature and outcome of our investigation. and we all know that those introductions and summaries weren't released until the report itself was in spite of rumblings of dissatisfaction from mueller's team. so the four-page barr letter, the letter that claimed to summarize mueller's principal findings, the letter that said mueller had not found that team trump conspired with russia, the letter that said mueller had not reached a conclusion as to whether the president attempted to obstruct justice, mueller says it did not fully capture the context, nature and substance of this office's work and c
mueller did that, his team did that. wouldn't that be what they wanted people to understand about their investigation? mueller reportedly even suggested some redactions, going on to say in his letter that the process of making redactions, quote, need not delay the release of the enclosed materials. release at this time would alleviate the misunderstandings that have arisen and would answer congressional and public questions about the nature and outcome of our investigation. and we all know that...
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mueller read his statement. you see right now it's a wait and see approach inside the white house how congress is going to proceed. giuliani claimed he doesn't think democrats will move forward any time soon and will continuing to fight all of these document and witness requests from capitol hill. >> john heilemann, how bad a day was this for donald trump in your view? >> not a great day. not a disastrous day, i don't think. i do think that in a couple of ways it's problematic. trump may be true that trump is trying to bait house democrats into impeaching him. he may think that's good politics for him, and there are certainly democrats who think that's true. >> victimhood? >> he can play the card because if he got impeached in the house, he wouldn't get convicted in the senate. i think it's an incredibly risky game to play. i don't see how being impeached, bill clinton came through it. we know that was true. but it didn't hurt republicans more broadly, and donald trump is not bill clinton. it's -- you know, you
mueller read his statement. you see right now it's a wait and see approach inside the white house how congress is going to proceed. giuliani claimed he doesn't think democrats will move forward any time soon and will continuing to fight all of these document and witness requests from capitol hill. >> john heilemann, how bad a day was this for donald trump in your view? >> not a great day. not a disastrous day, i don't think. i do think that in a couple of ways it's problematic....
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robert mueller doesn't like the way william barr handled the release of the mueller report. that's a big deal, especially three hours before we are going to hear from william barr >> you said it before. we know bob mueller is going to testify now. these committees should bring him on first. they are not going to do it in the judiciary committee. but it's more important than ever to not just say what's in the report but give us the bottom line. what were the conclusions you think should have been drawn from this. i think mueller would say with regard to obstruction in the court of congress to figure that out. but what's clear to me this morning is that barr did what he knew the trump team would do all along which was they were going to be in a rush to define how we were all supposed to think about this report. they did it with a lot of maneuvering and some skill to shape the narrative. the problem for barr is now bob mueller is really pushing back saying the way he described this to the american people is not right. >> that was a victory for barr. he did plant the seed and ev
robert mueller doesn't like the way william barr handled the release of the mueller report. that's a big deal, especially three hours before we are going to hear from william barr >> you said it before. we know bob mueller is going to testify now. these committees should bring him on first. they are not going to do it in the judiciary committee. but it's more important than ever to not just say what's in the report but give us the bottom line. what were the conclusions you think should...
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mueller report -- >> mueller or barr? >> barr doing that to the report, as i explained and all of these other extraordinary and unprecedented efforts to stop congress from doing its oversight -- >> julian, here's what i don't understand. >> that's politically -- >> you said propagandizing, isn't propaganda a lie, not the truth in some ways? maybe you could be lying but it doesn't rise to the level of perjury. >> the accusation was that he lied yesterday when they asked him about whether he knew that mueller was complaining and mueller's staff was complaining about omissions in his four-page summary. and he kind of danced around that but i don't think it reached perjury grounds. >> okay. >> i think whatever term you want to use, mischaracterize, misrepresented, he clearly left the public with a misimpression, and for what mueller had concluded on obstruction for an attorney general to do something on that as propitious and important as max boot was just talking to, alluding to very eloquently is just outrageous coming from
mueller report -- >> mueller or barr? >> barr doing that to the report, as i explained and all of these other extraordinary and unprecedented efforts to stop congress from doing its oversight -- >> julian, here's what i don't understand. >> that's politically -- >> you said propagandizing, isn't propaganda a lie, not the truth in some ways? maybe you could be lying but it doesn't rise to the level of perjury. >> the accusation was that he lied yesterday when...
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but if you actually listen to robert mueller and read the mueller report it is clear that the mueller team believes at the very least that there are two or three instances where obstruction is on the ta suggesg about russia. if you were to say to robert mueller, what's the single reason you held the press conference, my guess would be he would say to focus on russia. >> he led and closed with it. >> that's critical. >> is congress going to call robert mueller to testify? >> yeah. i think they'll ask him. it's odd to me why congressman nadler seemed to wishy-washy on this. i think they'll call him. they won't get what they want. he'll answer in a very limited, controlled way. i think there will be a lot of frustration and mueller knows that. his concern is i get up there. i've got the democrats yelling at me because i'm not talking enough. i've got the republicans yelling at me because i talk too much. he's going to be in the middle of this and i think he doesn't want to be in that position. a lot of people get called who don't want to be in that position. >> last question before we ge
but if you actually listen to robert mueller and read the mueller report it is clear that the mueller team believes at the very least that there are two or three instances where obstruction is on the ta suggesg about russia. if you were to say to robert mueller, what's the single reason you held the press conference, my guess would be he would say to focus on russia. >> he led and closed with it. >> that's critical. >> is congress going to call robert mueller to testify?...
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mueller allowed mr. comey to testify despite his being in the middle of this massive obstruction investigation. we thought that was curious. lou: yeah. >> and this is why there needs to be at least an internal ethics investigation of the way the mueller operation proceeded and its interaction with some of these witnesses. you know, mr. mueller, for instance, strzok was caught red-handed writing these anti-trump texts, these pro-hillary clinton texts. strzok testified, mueller didn't ask him one question about whether or not his anti-trump hatred influenced the investigation. mueller was disinterested in that. isn't that curious? lou: it is curious. and after today there are more questions about the witch hunt, as the president first characterized it which i think is an apt description of what this turned out to be. mueller says that charging the president, he at least tries to intimate that charging the president was never an option. so why did he persist at all? he didn't, by the way. there were no co-c
mueller allowed mr. comey to testify despite his being in the middle of this massive obstruction investigation. we thought that was curious. lou: yeah. >> and this is why there needs to be at least an internal ethics investigation of the way the mueller operation proceeded and its interaction with some of these witnesses. you know, mr. mueller, for instance, strzok was caught red-handed writing these anti-trump texts, these pro-hillary clinton texts. strzok testified, mueller didn't ask...
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mueller agrees with that. because of the opinion he didn't engage in the analysis of whether to charge with a crime or not. those aren't flatly inconsistent. when you read them closely. the problem is you shouldn't have to parse. when it's the attorney general of the united states. talking about a report that no one in the american public has seen. and i think the attorney general comments were understood by the vast majority of americans to mean something different what what his people are saying meant by them. >> he is saying he didn't -- this is the way i interpret it. barr is saying he never considered it. he saying it wasn't part -- i couldn't. i couldn't. he is saying it didn't factor in to mueller's conclusion. and mueller is saying i just couldn't do it. >> so, i tote will understand that reaction. and that's the reaction the vast majority of the american people had. if you look at carefully at what barr said, he's saying something i think slightly a notch different. it's not to excuse it. >> why could
mueller agrees with that. because of the opinion he didn't engage in the analysis of whether to charge with a crime or not. those aren't flatly inconsistent. when you read them closely. the problem is you shouldn't have to parse. when it's the attorney general of the united states. talking about a report that no one in the american public has seen. and i think the attorney general comments were understood by the vast majority of americans to mean something different what what his people are...
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that's not what mueller said today. >> no, and i think this is why mueller spoke today. it was his way of saying that the attorney general sits on a throne of lies. he said it in a much nicer way, but basically he directly contradicted exactly what jim just said, that he made this decision based on the olc memo, that if he could exonerate the president, he wouldn't, and he also said, this was no hoax, russia did, in fact, attack the united states. this was no coup, that we had a question we had to investigate, that any domestic national security agency would need to investigate, and he basically disspelled all of these myths that have been put out there. >> a witch hunt and on and on. frank, i want you to watch what happened today. this is when a reporter asked barr about this. watch. >> attorney general barr, robert mueller said today that president trump was not exonerated of obstruction of justice. why did you exonerate him? >> he wouldn't answer. we know the answer. >> it's because he doesn't have a good answer. >> he just walked away. >> i don't know if he was still
that's not what mueller said today. >> no, and i think this is why mueller spoke today. it was his way of saying that the attorney general sits on a throne of lies. he said it in a much nicer way, but basically he directly contradicted exactly what jim just said, that he made this decision based on the olc memo, that if he could exonerate the president, he wouldn't, and he also said, this was no hoax, russia did, in fact, attack the united states. this was no coup, that we had a question...
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mueller. >> i can't speak to the team as a whole. >> mr. mueller, then? >> when i talked to bob mueller he indicated he was concerned about the press coverage that had gone on the previous few days. and he felt that was to be remedied by putting out more information. >> i understood you to say the first concern that mr. mueller had he felt like your letter wasn't nuanced enough. >> correct. >> that problem has been solved, has it not? >> it was solved by putting out the whole report which is why i think the whole thing is sort of mind bendingly bizarre because i made clear from the beginning that i was putting out the report, as much of the
mueller. >> i can't speak to the team as a whole. >> mr. mueller, then? >> when i talked to bob mueller he indicated he was concerned about the press coverage that had gone on the previous few days. and he felt that was to be remedied by putting out more information. >> i understood you to say the first concern that mr. mueller had he felt like your letter wasn't nuanced enough. >> correct. >> that problem has been solved, has it not? >> it was solved...
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mueller restated his core findings. the russian interference in the 2016 presidential election here in the united states was clear and syst
mueller restated his core findings. the russian interference in the 2016 presidential election here in the united states was clear and syst
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but a bit about the mueller report. who is mueller? for those who may not know, i don't know where you've been but you may not know, bob mueller has a reputation in this town and throughout the country as being an outstanding lawyer and a man of the law. he was f.b.i. director, he was the deputy attorney general, he was in charge of the criminal division at the department of justice, he was a united states marine. and he has served his country in a variety of circumstances long nd well. for those who took time to read the report, i think it was well written, very for rogue and let me tell you -- very thorough and let me tell you what went into the report. 19 lawyers employed. approximately 40 f.b.i. agents. intel analysts -- intel analysts. forensic accountants and other staff. 2,800 subpoenas issued. 500 witnesses interviewed. warrants executed. more than 230 orders for communication records so records could be obtained. 13 requests to foreign governments for evidence. over $25 million spent. over two years. we may not agree on much b
but a bit about the mueller report. who is mueller? for those who may not know, i don't know where you've been but you may not know, bob mueller has a reputation in this town and throughout the country as being an outstanding lawyer and a man of the law. he was f.b.i. director, he was the deputy attorney general, he was in charge of the criminal division at the department of justice, he was a united states marine. and he has served his country in a variety of circumstances long nd well. for...
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mueller? >> well, was barr's account of his conversations and back and forth with mueller after barr sent his conclusions, his baseline conclusions to congress, after the report was finished, are barr's characterizations of his interactions with mueller accurate? he says that he had a phone conversation which mueller complained about the media coverage. now folks that know bob mueller know that he's not really someone to complain about the media coverage. so was mueller complaining directly about how barr had characterized his findings and not included them in his first letter to congress or was he really just complaining about the media coverage? because that was the way that barr tried to portray it yesterday. and there's been, you know, obviously conflicting accounts that, you know, have, you know, come out about these sort of interactions and how upset the mueller team was about how barr portrayed their work and it would be very interesting to hear directly from mueller about that and abou
mueller? >> well, was barr's account of his conversations and back and forth with mueller after barr sent his conclusions, his baseline conclusions to congress, after the report was finished, are barr's characterizations of his interactions with mueller accurate? he says that he had a phone conversation which mueller complained about the media coverage. now folks that know bob mueller know that he's not really someone to complain about the media coverage. so was mueller complaining...
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we saw why mueller was concerned. contrary to the declarations of the total and complete exoneration, the special counsel's report contained substantial evidence of misconduct. first, special counsel mueller's report confirms that the russian government implemented a social media campaign to mislead millions of americans. and that russian intelligence services hacked into the d.n.c. and the d.c.c.c. computers, stole emails and memo, and systematically released them to impact the presidential election. your march letter stated that there was no evidence that the trump campaign, quote, conspired or coordinated with russia, end quote. however, the report outlined substantial evidence that the trump campaign welcomed, encouraged, and expected to benefit electorally from russia's interference in the election. the mueller report also details how time and time again, the trump campaign took steps to gain advantage from russia's unlawful interference. for example, president trump's campaign manager, paul manafort, passed inte
we saw why mueller was concerned. contrary to the declarations of the total and complete exoneration, the special counsel's report contained substantial evidence of misconduct. first, special counsel mueller's report confirms that the russian government implemented a social media campaign to mislead millions of americans. and that russian intelligence services hacked into the d.n.c. and the d.c.c.c. computers, stole emails and memo, and systematically released them to impact the presidential...
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and honestly, now at 60 days since mueller's report was submitted, where's mueller? what's the actual hangup with getting him scheduled for testimony so he can explain what happened with his investigation, what he looked at and what he didn't? joining us now is congresswoman mary gay scanlen of pennsylvania. she is the vice chair of the house judiciary committee. she's also the member of congress who spearheaded the effort a few days ago to read the mueller report cover to cover out loud in congress to among other things get it on the congressional record. congresswoman scanlen, thank you so much for being here. i really appreciate it. >> thank you for having me on. >> let me ask you about that last point first. tell me about your rationale behind having yourself and other members of congress read the mueller report out loud. >> well, there was this increasing frustration, the report had been out for over a month and we kept hearing this drumbeat of no obstruction, no collusion. anyone who's read the mueller report knows that it doesn't say no obstruction, no collusi
and honestly, now at 60 days since mueller's report was submitted, where's mueller? what's the actual hangup with getting him scheduled for testimony so he can explain what happened with his investigation, what he looked at and what he didn't? joining us now is congresswoman mary gay scanlen of pennsylvania. she is the vice chair of the house judiciary committee. she's also the member of congress who spearheaded the effort a few days ago to read the mueller report cover to cover out loud in...
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mueller's reaction? wednesday morning he said he got this letter and he had not produced the letter, they would be an outcry, that would've been a true television moment. like alexander butterfield in the 1970's saying we have to check the white house tapes. leaked thisiam barr letter because they wanted to be on record. have one did not just publication but the wall street journal, new york times, washington post with the story. guest: the hallmark of the official government leak. guest: there is no doubt about that. host: final thoughts. i am watching for robert mueller to testify on the hell. -- hill. there is a lot of confusion and some doubt about what happened. and how the attorney general and special counsel are working to or not working together, that has to be clarified and hopefully mended with robert mueller coming to testify publicly about what he found and what he did not find, how he interacted with the attorney general. guest: absolutely, robert mueller's testimony will be riveting televis
mueller's reaction? wednesday morning he said he got this letter and he had not produced the letter, they would be an outcry, that would've been a true television moment. like alexander butterfield in the 1970's saying we have to check the white house tapes. leaked thisiam barr letter because they wanted to be on record. have one did not just publication but the wall street journal, new york times, washington post with the story. guest: the hallmark of the official government leak. guest: there...
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robert mueller said i can't do anything here. >> robert mueller said he was not empowered to charge a sitting president. but he also was not -- into how is that different from what i just said? >> i don't think mueller -- i don't think -- well i guess -- i think the idea that mueller is saying, i read that as nothing can be done here. >> by the department of justice, the ones who run the rule of law. >> then we agree. then we agree. but i think he was also saying in the same breath i am not exonerating the president of any crimes. >> then it takes us to congress. the fact that more candidates are now coming out saying we should move forward with impeachment, does that impact nancy pelosi in any way. >> i think the pressure is on. it is on in a big way. they are not in seg right now. i guess they will be back next week into we need mohamed break. we need their schedule. just want to point that out. >> for the past three years. i think the two things you can take from -- at least i took from the mueller statement yesterday is one that if the president held any other title, he would have
robert mueller said i can't do anything here. >> robert mueller said he was not empowered to charge a sitting president. but he also was not -- into how is that different from what i just said? >> i don't think mueller -- i don't think -- well i guess -- i think the idea that mueller is saying, i read that as nothing can be done here. >> by the department of justice, the ones who run the rule of law. >> then we agree. then we agree. but i think he was also saying in the...