captioning funded by cbs and ford-- built for the road ahead. >> at the rate we're going, it could be four, five years before we are back to a more normal unemployment rate. >> pelley: many people may be surprised by what the chairman of the nerve told us this week -- chairman of the federal reserve told us this week about deepening unemployment, taxes and the prospect of a second recession. chairmen of the federal reserve rarely do interview, but ben ber

nanke felt he had to speak out to defend the controversial action the federal reserve is taking. you seem to be saying the recovery we're experiencing now may not be self-sustaining. >> it may not be. it's very close to the border. >> stahl: you're showing us something no one else has seen yet. >> soon. >> stahl: very soon, starting tomorrow. mark zukerberg is talking about a whole new look to facebook which you will see for the first time tonight on "60 minutes." it comes at a time when his company is surging. there are now a whopping 500 million facebook users. at a non-disscript t-shirt at a non-disscript desk, zuckerberg runs a vast global empire, leading the whole internet in his direction. is the goal for you to conquer the whole internet, to tone internet? >> well, think about it like this. people, if they can use a product of any category, photos, music, tv, anything, either by themselves or with their friends, i think most of the time people want to do those things with their friends. >> so is the answer yes?

>> i'm steve kroft. >> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm bob simon. >> i'm morley safer. >> i'm byron pitts. >> i'm scott pelley. those stories and andy rooney tonight on "60 minutes."

>> pelley: friday's unemployment number was a troubling surprise, up from 9.6% to 9.8%. the economists who decide such things say the recession ended in 2009, but this is the worst recovery the nation has ever seen. ben bernanke is concerned.

as chairman of the federal reserve, bernanke has enormous power over the world economy, and he's used that power in ways that the world has never seen. during the panic of 2008, he committed trillions of dollars to rescue the financial system, and the fed dropped interest rates nearly to zero. now, in a new move that's become controversial, bernanke intends to commit another $600 billion to hold down interest rates. chairmen of the fed rarely do interviews. but this week, bernanke feels he has to speak out, because he believes his critics may not understand how much trouble the economy is in. we wanted to know whether we're headed for another recession, whether congress should extend the bush tax cuts. but first, we wanted to talk about unemployment, which has been at 9.5% or more for 16 months. >> ben bernanke: the unemployment rate is just not going down. unemployment is just about the same as it was in mid-2009, when the economy started growing.

so, that's a major concern. and it looks that, at current rates, that it may take some years before the unemployment rate is back down to more normal levels. >> pelley: we lost about eight million jobs from the peak, and i wonder how many years you think it will be before we get all those jobs back. >> bernanke: well, you're absolutely right. between the peak and the end of last year, we lost eight and a half million jobs. we've only gotten about a million of them back so far. and that doesn't even account the new people coming into the labor force. at the rate we're going, it could be four, five years before we are back to a more normal unemployment rate, somewhere in the vicinity of say 5% or 6%. >> pelley: four or five years. and bernanke told us something else that makes that even more painful. >> bernanke: the other aspect of the unemployment rate that really concerns me is that more than 40% of the unemployed have been unemployed for six months or more, and that's unusually high.

and people who are unemployed for such a long time, they... their skills erode, their attachment to the labor force diminishes. and it may be a very, very long time before they find themselves back in a normal working position. >> pelley: ben bernanke was appointed in 2006 by president bush, and reappointed by president obama. he grew up here, in dillon, south carolina, the son of a drugstore owner. he studied economics at harvard and m.i.t., and chaired the economics department at princeton. i hope some of these young people are working on ways to fix the economy. we met chairman bernanke tuesday in the thompson library on the campus of ohio state university. he was in columbus on one of his frequent trips to hear how people are coping with the economy. earlier in the day, he heard from the c.e.o.s of ford and ibm, but also from small business owners who told him they were having trouble getting financing from banks. the major banks are racking up

profits in the billions, wall street bonuses are climbing back up to where they were. and yet, lending to small businesses actually declined in the third quarter. why is that? >> bernanke: a lot of small businesses are not seeking credit, because... you know, because their business is not doing well, because the economy is slow. others are not qualifying for credit, maybe because the value of their property has gone down. but some also can't meet the terms and conditions that banks are setting. >> pelley: is this a case of banks that were eager to take risks that ruin the economy being now unwilling to take risks to support the recovery? >> bernanke: we want them to take risks, but not excessive risks. we want to go for a happy medium. and i think banks are back in the business of lending. but they have not yet come back to the level of confidence that... or overconfidence that they had prior to the crisis. we want to have an appropriate balance. >> pelley: bernanke's first interview ever came in 2009 shortly after the panic.

wow. it was then that he gave us a rare opportunity to see the federal reserve headquarters in washington. last month, bernanke announced the fed's intent to buy $600 billion in u.s. treasury securities, which is supposed to have the effect of lowering rates on long-term loans for things like cars and homes. bernanke wanted to emphasize that these are the fed's own reserves. it's not tax money; it does not add to the federal deficit. what did you see that caused you to pull the trigger on the $600 billion, at this point? >> bernanke: it has to do with two aspects. the first is unemployment. the other concern i should mention is that inflation is very, very low, which you think is a good thing, and normally is a good thing. but we're getting awfully close to the range where prices would actually start falling. >> pelley: falling prices lead to falling wages. it lets the steam out of the economy, and you start spiraling downward. >> bernanke: exactly.

exactly. >> pelley: that's deflation, and that's what happened in the great depression. how great a danger is that now? >> bernanke: i would say, at this point, because the fed is acting, i would say the risk is pretty low. but if the fed did not act, then, given how much inflation has come down since the beginning of the recession, i think it would be a more serious concern. >> pelley: critics of bernanke's federal reserve have the opposite worry. they say that the $600 billion and holding down interest rates could overheat the recovering economy, causing prices to rise out of control. some people think the $600 billion is a terrible idea. >> bernanke: well, i know some people think that, but what they are doing is, they're looking at some of the risks and uncertainties with doing this policy action, but what i think they're not doing is looking at the risk of not acting. >> pelley: many people believe that could be highly inflationary, that it's a dangerous thing to try. >> bernanke: well, this fear of inflation, i think, is way overstated.

we've looked at it very, very carefully. we've analyzed it every which way. one myth that's out there is that what we're doing is printing money. we're not printing money; the amount of currency in circulation is not changing. the money supply is not changing in any significant way. what we're doing is lowering interest rates by buying treasury securities. and by lowering interest rates, we hope to stimulate the economy to grow faster. so the trick is to find the appropriate moment when to begin to unwind this policy, and that's what we're going to do. >> pelley: is keeping inflation in check less of a priority for the federal reserve now? >> bernanke: no, absolutely not. what we're trying to do is achieve a balance. we've been very, very clear that we will not allow inflation to rise above 2% or less. >> pelley: can you act quickly enough to prevent inflation from getting out of control? >> bernanke: we could raise interest rates in 15 minutes, if we have to. so, there really is no problem with raising rates, tightening monetary policy, slowing the

economy, reducing inflation, at the appropriate time. now, that time is not now. >> pelley: you have what degree of confidence in your ability to control this? >> bernanke: 100%. >> pelley: do you anticipate a scenario in which you would commit to more than $600 billion? >> bernanke: oh, it's certainly possible. and again, it depends on the efficacy of the program, it depends on inflation, and finally, it depends on how the economy looks. >> pelley: how would you rate the likelihood of dipping into recession again? >> bernanke: it doesn't seem likely that we'll have a double- dip recession. and that's because, among other things, some of the most cyclical parts of the economy, like housing, for example, are already very weak, and they can't get much weaker. and so another decline is relatively unlikely. now, that being said, i think a very high unemployment rate for a protracted period of time, which makes consumers, households less confident, more worried about the future-- i think that's the primary source of risk that we might have another slowdown in the economy.

>> pelley: you seem to be saying that the recovery that we're experiencing now is not self- sustaining. >> bernanke: it may not be. it's very close to the border. it takes about 2.5% growth just to keep unemployment stable. and that's about what we're getting. we're not very far from the level where the economy is not self-sustaining. >> pelley: the debate on capitol hill this week is over whether to extend the bush tax cuts, which would likely increase the budget deficit. bernanke wouldn't answer that question directly, but he certainly made one thing clear-- cutting the budget deficit must be done, he said, but it shouldn't be done right now. >> bernanke: we need to pay close attention to the fact that we are recovering now. we don't want to take actions this year that will affect this year's spending and this year's taxes in a way that will hurt the recovery. that's important. but that doesn't stop us from thinking now about the long-term structural budget deficit.

we're looking at ten, 15, 20 years from now, a situation where almost the entire federal budget will be spent on medicare, medicaid, social security, and interest on the debt. there won't be any money left for the military or for any other services the government provides. we can only address those issues if we think about them now. >> pelley: bernanke makes a point of remaining silent on specific proposals that congress might consider, so we were surprised when he did offer up a big idea for making the economy grow. >> bernanke: cleaning up the tax code, for example. the tax code is very inefficient, both the personal tax code and the corporate tax code. by closing loopholes and lowering rates, you could increase the efficiency of the tax code and create more incentives for people to invest. >> pelley: recently, bernanke has been facing hostility from the most conservative members on capitol hill. some are calling for reducing the fed's role. but bernanke understands that his job is not a popularity contest.

how concerned are you about the calls that you're beginning to hear on capitol hill that would curb the fed's independence? >> bernanke: well, the fed's independence is critical. the central bank needs to be able to make policy without short-term political concerns in order to do what's best for the economy. we do all of our analysis, we do all of our policy decisions based on what we think the economy needs, not based on when the election is or what political conditions are. >> pelley: like many economists, bernanke believes it was the federal reserve itself that was instrumental in causing the great depression with its tight- fisted monetary policies, so he did exactly the opposite. in the panic of '08, the fed put up $3.3 trillion, and just this past week, the fed revealed who got emergency help. turns out, 21,000 transactions-- to financial firms, including

citigroup, morgan stanley, goldman sachs; to major industrials companies, including g.e.; and even to foreign banks, including the bank of england. most all of the loans have been paid back. but it was a historic transfusion of cash in a global system that was bleeding to death. we asked bernanke what would have happened if the fed hadn't acted. what would unemployment be today? >> bernanke: unemployment would be much, much higher. it might be something like it was in the depression-- 25%. we saw what happened when one or two large financial firms came close to failure or to failure. imagine if ten or 12 or 15 firms had... had failed, which is where we almost were in the fall of 2008. it would have brought down the entire global financial system, and it would have had enormous implications, very long-lasting implications for the global economy, not just the u.s. economy. >> pelley: but it's also true that the fed was the regulatory watchdog of the largest banks when crazy lending led the world to crisis.

is there anything that you wish you'd done differently over these last two and a half years or so? >> bernanke: well, i wish i'd been omniscient and seen the crisis coming, the way you asked me about. i didn't. but it was a very, very difficult situation, and the federal reserve responded very aggressively, very proactively. >> pelley: how did the fed miss the looming financial crisis? >> bernanke: there were large portions of the financial system that were not adequately covered by the regulatory oversight. so, for example, a.i.g. was not overseen by the fed. >> pelley: the insurance company. >> bernanke: the insurance company that required the bailout was not overseen by the fed. it didn't really have any real oversight at that time. neither did lehman brothers, the company that failed. now, i'm not saying the fed should not have seen some of these things. one of things that i most regret is that we weren't strong enough in putting in consumer protections to try to cut down

on the sub-prime lending problem. that was an area where i think we could have done more. >> pelley: the gap between rich and poor in this country has never been greater. in fact, we have the biggest income disparity gap of any industrialized country in the world. and i wonder where you think that's taking america. >> bernanke: well, it's a very bad development. it's creating two societies. and it's based very much, i think, on... on educational differences, the unemployment rate we've been talking about. if you're a college graduate, unemployment is 5%; if you're a high school graduate, it's 10% or more. it's a very big difference. it leads to an unequal society, and a society which doesn't have the cohesion that... that we'd like to see. >> pelley: we have talked about how the next several years are going to be tough years in this country. but i wonder what you think about the ten-year time horizon, 15 years. how do things look to you, long- term? >> bernanke: long-term, i have a lot of confidence in the united states. we have an excellent record in

terms of innovation. we have great universities that are involved in technological change and progress. we have an entrepreneurial culture, much more than almost any other country. so i think that in the longer term, the united states will retain its leading position in the world. but again, we've got to get there, and we have some very difficult challenges over the next few years. >> sex money watch update sponsored by: >> mitchell: good evening. republican senator jon kyl said he's optimistic about a deal to extend tax cuts and jobless benefits. president obama said south korea trade pact could create jobs. gas shot up to $2.94 a glob, and "tangled" won the weekend box office. i'm russ mitchell, cbs news.

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>> stahl: if you have a facebook account, you've probably reconnected with an old pal, shared photos with your family, and gotten advice from your friends on what to buy and what to read. it's pretty likely you logged on today. lately, the social networking site has been introducing new products, one after the next, with the goal, it seems, of turning the entire web into one big social network, so eventually the internet will be facebook. as if the company weren't surging enough, the movie "the social network," about the creation of facebook, has heightened interest, especially in its 26-year-old c.e.o., mark zuckerberg. now, facebook is about to get a facelift, and agreed to launch its new look tonight on "60 minutes." so we went out to palo alto and sat down with mark zuckerberg to discuss his creation, used today by a whopping 500 million people in 70 languages all around the

world. when you first thought about this, 19 years old, is this what you had in mind? did you see this far into the future? or is it way beyond what you dreamed? >> mark zuckerberg: well, it's funny. i mean, when i was getting started, you know, with my roommates in college, you never think that you could build this company or anything like that, right? because... i mean, it's just... i mean, we were college students, right? >> stahl: yeah. >> zuckerberg: and we were just building stuff because we thought it was cool. i do remember having these specific conversations with my friends where we thought, you know, someone is going to build this, someone is going to build something that makes it so that people can stay connected with their friends and their family. but no way would we be the ones who were contributing to... kind of leading the whole internet in this direction. >> stahl: but that's what he's doing-- leading the whole internet in his direction. in a nondescript t-shirt at a nondescript desk, mark zuckerberg runs a vast global empire, with the world's largest population after china and

india. i first met him three years ago, at facebook's old graffitied building in downtown palo alto. the company has since decamped to giant hangers nearby, to accommodate their explosive growth. the graffiti is largely gone, except for one word you just can't miss. >> stahl: i see "hack" everywhere. "hack." it has a negative connotation, doesn't it? >> zuckerberg: when we say "hacker," there's this whole definition that... that engineers have for themselves, where it's very much a compliment when you call someone a hacker, where to hack something means to build something very quickly, right? in one night, you can sit down and you could churn out a lot of code, and at the end, you have a product. >> stahl: which is what he expects from his 500 engineers. as we walked through, we got a sense of high-level competition; whether it's writing code into the night or taking breaks to play speed chess, it's a constant game of oneupsmanship.

>> stahl: you have hack-athons. >> zuckerberg: yeah. and hack-athons are these things where just all of the facebook engineers get together and stay up all night building things. and we just have this culture... >> stahl: and you, too. >> zuckerberg: i do, too. and, i mean, usually at these hack-athons, i code, too, just alongside everyone. >> stahl: as he spoke, i remembered his awkwardness from three years ago, and how he rarely blinks. but he's far more relaxed now, easier to smile, and noticeably more confident as he tells you about all the new products they keep launching. you're showing us something that no one else has seen yet. >> zuckerberg: soon. >> stahl: very soon, starting tomorrow. tomorrow the company will launch a new layout for the heart of the site: every user's profile page. for example, this is mark's old page, filled with scrapbook-like entries in no order of importance, like "andy samberg plays me on 'saturday night

live'." you have to dig around to get any real sense of who mark is as a person. this is mark's new page, which is, in effect, "the mark zuckerberg story," or how he wants his friends to see him. his bio information is right up top, with the kind of details he'd tell you if you met him, say, at a bar. >> zuckerberg: i work at facebook and i spend all of my time there, right? i mean, here are my friends. i grew up in new york, and now i live in california, right. those really kind of basic, important things. >> stahl: under the bio, his latest photos posted by him or his friends. it's like a running ticker tape of his life. every day, a staggering 100 million photos are uploaded on to the site. lots of photos on the... right away... >> zuckerberg: people love photos. >> stahl: right up front, yeah. >> zuckerberg: photos originally weren't that big a part of the idea for facebook, but we just found that people really like them, so we built out this functionality. >> stahl: a dozen engineers and

designers worked on the new page in this war room. empty plates and toothpaste tubes by their keyboards-- they raced against a clock, right there, telling them how much time was left to complete each high priority task. >> we want it to be awesome. >> stahl: they came up with a new section on the left. you can now list the important people in your life-- mom, dad, sister, sister, sister, girlfriend. another new feature pulls up a history of your relationship with any of your facebook friends. >> zuckerberg: you can see all the things that you have in common with that person. and it's just, like... it gives you this amazing connection with that person in a way that the current version of the profile that we have today just doesn't do. >> stahl: for the over-sharers among us, you'll still get the news: mark just ate an extremely spicy pepper, and went to the harry potter amusement park with his dad.

there's lots more graphics under "what's important to you?" mark likes lady gaga and epic movies. and finally, there's a sports section. he plays tennis and likes the yankees. but whenever facebook introduces something new, there are always questions about how it protects our personal data. there's a sense that you, after all this time, aren't always aboveboard, and that there's some hidden motive to kind of invade our privacy, take the information and use it to make money. >> zuckerberg: we... we never sell your information. advertisers who are using the site never get access to your information. >> stahl: but the new layout does encourage us to reveal more about ourselves on facebook. earlier this year, the company also introduced a new button, where users can tell facebook what they like in over 100,000 sites, whether it's a new pair of jeans or a "60 minutes" story. so the company does compile and control an ever-growing inventory of your likes and

interests, and if facebook itself doesn't sell the information to advertisers, applications, or "apps," that run on facebook by outside companies have been known to. >> zuckerberg: it's against all of our policies for an application to ever share information with advertisers. >> stahl: but they do. they do. >> zuckerberg: and then, we shut them down if they do. >> stahl: am i a fuddy-duddy by... >> kara swisher: yes. >> stahl: am i a fuddy-duddy by asking all these privacy questions? >> swisher: no. >> stahl: kara swisher is the editor of "all things digital," a web site about high-tech in silicon valley. you know, i wonder if facebook can exist if it doesn't invade privacy. >> swisher: that's right. that's exactly right. >> stahl: so it needs to invade privacy. the issue is transparency, isn't it? >> swisher: kind of. yes. >> stahl: how up front they are with the users... >> swisher: that is, i think, mark's one weakness. and i think that was why he got so nervous in the interview we did. >> pop swisher: it's okay. you want to take off the hoodie? >> stahl: she's referring to this conference in june, where she grilled mark on privacy in an interview she calls a "sweat- o-palooza."

>> swisher: and he had, like, flop sweat, and it was really quite disturbing actually to watch. >> stahl: she was pushing him to admit that facebook is misleading about its privacy policies, an issue that comes up time and time again. >> zuckerberg: now, do we get it right all the time? no. but it's something that we take really seriously, and every day we come to work and just try to do a good job on this. >> stahl: and yet, you've got the f.t.c. looking into it, you have members of congress looking into it. there have been... privacy groups have lodged formal complaints. you've hired a lobbyist in washington to deal with this, so i... you know it's a problem. >> zuckerberg: well, i think that this... it's a really important thing for everyone to... >> stahl: it's huge. >> zuckerberg: ...just be thinking about. i mean, privacy and making sure that people have control over their information is, i think, one of the most fundamental things on the internet. >> stahl: it's become even more important as facebook introduces one new product after the next. >> chris cox: these are all just like engineering teams-- these guys work on the platform. >> stahl: 28-year-old chris cox is head of product development. he sits across the desk from mark and thinks about what next

for facebook. >> cox: this is how close we sit. >> stahl: and increasingly, he's thinking outside your desktop. how many people actually access facebook through their mobile devices? >> cox: i think the latest number is over 200 million. >> stahl: so, in other words, that's obviously the future. >> cox: i think it's a huge part of the future. >> stahl: is facebook developing a phone device, like apple did iphone? >> cox: no. we're working on building software that can be used on all phones. >> stahl: their latest product is "messages," which combines email, cell phone texting, and instant messages into one. they call it the "ultimate switchboard." so do you think e-mail will become obsolete? no? >> cox: i'm not sure. but what we've found is that more people are using messages, are moving away from e-mail. and so if we build a really compelling experience, i think people are going to switch over. but i'm not going to call the end of anything. >> stahl: was this directed at gmail, google's e-mail? >> cox: no.

>> stahl: because everybody is talking about a gmail killer. >> cox: it's certainly what everyone's writing about. >> stahl: google. >> swisher: yes. >> stahl: facebook and google. >> swisher: yes. >> stahl: are they on a collision course? >> swisher: they are, indeed. >> stahl: the fight's over what? it's over how to search. >> swisher: search. >> stahl: it's all over search. >> swisher: how people find, discover, search. >> stahl: say you want to buy a car. you can type "prius" on google and get publicly available information, or you can type "prius" in facebook and get personal advice about it from your friends... are you trying to turn everything we do on the web into a social function? >> zuckerberg: i think what we've found is that when you can use products with your friends and your family and the people you care about, they tend to be more engaging. i think that we're really going to see this huge shift where a lot of industry is, and products are just going to be remade to be social. >> stahl: it's already happening-- this year, people spent more time on facebook than on google. so you're out here in silicon

valley. can you feel a tectonic plate... >> swisher: yes. >> stahl: ...shifting over? >> swisher: well, you can see the talent shift over. you can see... >> stahl: right. >> swisher: ...you know, and there's been a big war about talent and payments, millions of dollars to keep people... engineers at google. >> stahl: mark's number two, sheryl sandberg, defected from google. he recently wooed over the inventor of google maps, and he even poached google's cafeteria chef. there's kind of a talent brain drain from them to you-- something like 200 people who work for you. 10% are former googlers, right? >> zuckerberg: i do think it's clear there are areas where the companies compete. but then, there are all these areas where we just don't compete at all. >> stahl: is the goal for you to conquer the whole internet, to own the internet? >> zuckerberg: well, think about it like this: people, if they can use the product, of any category-- photos, groups, music, tv, anything-- either by themselves or with their friends, i think, most of the time, people want to do those things with their friends. >> stahl: so is the answer yes? ( laughs ) come on. >> zuckerberg: i think... so, i mean, the answer... >> stahl: come on.

>> zuckerberg: ...is that we want to help other people build a lot of these products. >> stahl: he doesn't like to talk about competing with google, just as he didn't three years ago, when i compared him to its founders, larry and sergei. you seem to be replacing larry and sergei as the people out here who everyone's talking about. you're just staring at me. >> zuckerberg: is that a question? >> stahl: that line is now in "the social network," the movie about facebook. >> is that a question? >> stahl: the question is, who is the real mark zuckerberg? and how did facebook really get its start? we'll look back at the controversial creation of facebook, and its creator, when we come back. welcome to cbs sports update. i'm james brown in new york. jacksonville takes a lead over indy in the a.f.c. south while kansas city is now two games ahead in the a.f.c. west.

chicago maintains a one-game lead over green bay in the n.f.c. north. if atlanta wins, they remain a game ahead of new orleans in the n.f.c. south. st. louis and seattle remain tied for the first in the n.f.c. west. and for more news and scores, log on to cbssports.com. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms.

it was up to me to support our family. [ male announcer ] karri danner went back to school, to become a nurse. my education made all the difference... [ male announcer ] but now some in washington want regulations restricting access to career colleges and universities, denying opportunity to millions of people like karri, letting government decide who can go to college.

it's my education, and my job, it should be my choice. [ male announcer ] don't let washington get in the way. >> stahl: facebook's launch of its new profile page will include a tutorial on all the new features, and for a while, you'll be able to choose between staying with your old profile or upgrading to the new, where you'll get to tell your friends who you really are. we decided to take the opportunity of the launch to find out more about who mark zuckerberg really is. as facebook becomes an intrinsic part of so many lives, how the site came to be in the first place is now the fodder of creation myths, a handful of lawsuits, at least two books,

and a movie, all focusing on its co-founder and c.e.o. half a billion people give you their personal information. do you feel that, because of that, they have a right to know a lot about you personally, about your values, what you think? >> zuckerberg: yeah, i think that, because of that, we have to do a very good job of communicating, as a company, really... >> stahl: no, you. i'm talking about you, mark zuckerberg. is it important to know who's running facebook, in light of that? >> zuckerberg: yeah. yeah, it is. >> stahl: interest in what makes mark tick has heightened since the release of the movie, "the social network," that depicts him as a callous genius who betrays friends and principles to protect his creation, facebook. >> if you guys were the inventors of facebook, you'd have invented facebook. >> stahl: the real mark vowed he would never see the film. on opening day, he changed his mind. >> zuckerberg: we took the whole company to go see the movie. >> stahl: took the whole company. >> zuckerberg: i actually thought it was pretty fun. >> stahl: but i guess my question is, was it hard to watch for you?

>> zuckerberg: in watching it, it's pretty interesting to see what parts they got right and what parts they got wrong. i think that they got every single t-shirt that they had the mark zuckerberg character wearing right. i think i actually own those t- shirts. >> stahl: come on. >> zuckerberg: and they got sandals right and all that. but i mean, there are hugely basic things that they got wrong, too. i mean, they... they made it seem like my whole motivation for building facebook was so i could get girls, right? and they completely left out the fact that my girlfriend, i've been dating since before i started facebook, right? so i mean, that's just like... >> stahl: wait, what? say that again. the girl... your current girlfriend, you were dating back then? >> zuckerberg: yeah... yeah, i've been dating my current girlfriend... >> stahl: during the time of the movie? >> zuckerberg: ...since before i created facebook. yeah. i mean, and... yeah. >> stahl: you know, i've heard two reactions. one is about you very personally, and it's not so flattering. the other is that "wow, he... he's a really great entrepreneur." >> zuckerberg: i get two reactions, too. but they're actually a little bit different from the ones that you said. there's a set of people who, i think, have been following the

facebook story who, i think, were... had a deeper analysis of which things in the movie were true and which ones were false and all that. then, the rest of people, i just think, were pretty surprised and even amazed that, like, "wow, facebook is an interesting enough thing to make a movie out of," or this mark zuckerberg person-- "i never heard of him. like, this must be interesting." and i can't tell you how many messages i've gotten from people who use facebook writing in to say, "this movie was really inspiring to me. after seeing this movie, i want to start a company," or "i want to go into computer science," or "i want to study math." and if the movie had that effect on people, then awesome, right? i mean, that's great. >> stahl: you almost sound enthusiastic about this movie. >> zuckerberg: that... that part. >> when you say you had this idea... >> stahl: one part he doesn't like has to do with the winklevoss twins, tyler and cameron. >> excuse us for inviting you in.

>> stahl: in real life, they're olympic rowers who claim that, when they were at harvard, they had the idea of a university- based social networking site first; that, in 2003, mark agreed to work on their project. but instead, they say, he ripped them off. >> cameron winklevoss: when we approached him, we had been working on the idea for almost a year at that point. we had a sophisticated code base. it wasn't an idea scribbled on a napkin; it was a very sort of mature idea. and we brought him on to bring it to completion. >> tyler winklevoss: we agreed to work on this project. he sabotaged our project, and he betrayed us. >> stahl: there were other social networking sites already there. it isn't as if you had the first idea, right? you admit that? >> tyler winklevoss: that's a typical argument that comes from facebook that social networking existed at the time. >> stahl: right. >> tyler winklevoss: okay, we weren't individuals on separate sides of the country developing social networks unbeknownst to each other. we were teammates. we were partners.

>> stahl: so how did you actually find out that he was working on a different project? >> tyler winklevoss: we found out by reading the harvard student newspaper. >> stahl: so that's the first you realized? >> tyler winklevoss: yup. >> stahl: what did the article say? >> tyler winklevoss: it said, to the effect, "mark zuckerberg launches the facebook.com." it described a bit about it. we turned to each other and we said, "isn't that the mark zuckerberg that's working with us on the same project?" >> stahl: so they sued, and in 2008 the case was settled out of court for a reported $65 million. but the twins have since appealed, arguing that facebook misled them about the value of the stock in the settlement. why are you pounding away at this when you're making so much money? >> tyler winklevoss: this is all about principle. >> stahl: well, i have to be honest with you, it doesn't look that way. it looks like it's all about money. >> tyler winklevoss: no, you will have... i'm not sure anybody can quite put themselves

in our shoes and understand what it must've felt like to start an idea in 2002, to approach a fellow student in 2004, to have it stolen, sabotaged, ripped off. >> stahl: recently leaked instant messages, reportedly from mark's old computer, suggest he did deliberately delay the twins' project. >> tyler winklevoss: he premeditatedly sandbagged us, because he knew getting there first was everything. there wasn't room for two social networks at harvard and universities around the country. >> stahl: what do you say to people who say, "come on, give the guy a break. he was 19 years old." >> cameron winklevoss: i know that when i was 19, i wouldn't have behaved that way. i would have, you know, certainly not betrayed fellow classmates. >> stahl: okay, big question-- you guys on facebook? >> cameron winklevoss: yes. >> tyler winklevoss: we are. >> stahl: get out of here.

let me ask you about the winklevoss twins. they sued; you settled. they're still coming after you. >> zuckerberg: you know, i... it's hard for me to fully wrap my head around where they're coming from on this. you know, early on, they had an idea that was completely separate from facebook, and that... i mean, it was a dating site for... for harvard. and i agreed to help them out with it... to help them, right. i mean, it wasn't... i... it wasn't a job. they weren't paying me. i wasn't hired by them or anything like that. and then, the idea that, you know, i... i would then go work on something completely different, like facebook, and that they would be upset about this all these years later is kind of mind-boggling for me. now, i mean, this is another thing that i think the... the movie really missed is, i mean, they make it seem like this whole lawsuit is such a huge part of facebook's history. i've probably spent less than two weeks of my time worried about this lawsuit at all, right? i mean... >> stahl: maybe you should've worried about it a little more. >> zuckerberg: maybe i should have earlier on, right?

>> stahl: yeah. >> zuckerberg: but i guess the point that i'm trying to make is, this has never been a big deal to... to facebook or its evolution. >> stahl: do you feel any remorse at all about the twins or anything that happened with them? >> zuckerberg: i mean, after all this time, i feel bad that they still feel bad about it. >> stahl: kara swisher, editor of the web site about high-tech, says she doesn't feel sorry for the twins. >> swisher: i'm sorry. they got paid $65 million for one medium idea that they never could've made into anything. >> stahl: well, you sound very sympathetic to mark as an individual, to me. >> swisher: in this case, yes, because he is the entrepreneur. i think he definitely tried to screw with the winklevosses, that's clear. he was... he promised to do a service for them he didn't do. he did. but he also did build the business without their help. >> stahl: you are famous for coining the term "toddler c.e.o." about... >> swisher: i am. >> stahl: mark zuckerberg. >> swisher: i did. >> stahl: that was three years ago. >> swisher: yes.

>> stahl: and you told us that you thought he was inexperienced and way too young to run this company. >> swisher: yes. >> stahl: three years later... >> swisher: he's done a great job. he's a prodigy. the toddler's a prodigy, as it turns out. >> stahl: when i was here three years ago, they were calling you the "toddler c.e.o.," and they don't say that anymore at all. this is a tough question, but try-- how would you grade yourself as a c.e.o., as the leader of this business? >> zuckerberg: i mean, that is a hard question. >> stahl: that's a hard question. >> zuckerberg: i also don't think you can ever win by answering that question. now, we've made a huge number of mistakes along the way. right, now... i always say i just think we've made probably every possible mistake you could make. >> stahl: is there a decision that you've made that the people around you told you was a mistake, and you defied them and you were right? >> zuckerberg: you know, i mean, the most famous one, i think, probably has to do with selling the company, right? i mean, in 2006... >> stahl: right.

>> zuckerberg: ...we had this opportunity to sell the company to yahoo for a billion dollars. and we turned that down. i think a lot of people at the time thought we should sell the company. >> stahl: absolutely. >> zuckerberg: but, you know, i felt really strongly. and i... i think, like, now, people generally think that that was a good decision. >> stahl: since that decision, the company has grown considerably. estimates are that if there were an initial public stock offering-- an i.p.o.-- today, facebook would be valued between $35 billion and $50 billion. are you ever going to have the i.p.o., ever? >> zuckerberg: you know, maybe. >> stahl: it's like you can't let go. >> zuckerberg: you can't let go? >> stahl: you can't let go. >> zuckerberg: i don't think it's letting go. here's... here's the way that i think about it. a lot of people who i think build startups or companies think that selling the company or going public is this endpoint. right, it's like you win when you go public, and that's just not how i see it. >> stahl: you're 26 years old. >> zuckerberg: i know. >> stahl: feel old? >> zuckerberg: yeah. >> stahl: yeah, running this giant company.

your personal worth is said to be $6.9 billion. do you ever just pinch yourself? do you ever just say, "wow, this happened to me?" >> zuckerberg: i mean, it is pretty crazy. depression is a serious medical condition. i feel like i have to wind myself up to deal with the sadness, the loss of interest, the lack of energy. [ male announcer ] ask your doctor about pristiq®, a prescription medicine proven to treat depression. pristiq is thought to work by affecting the levels of two chemicals in the brain, serotonin and norepinephrine. tell your doctor right away if your depression worsens or you have unusual changes in mood, behavior, or thoughts of suicide. antidepressants can increase suicidal thoughts and behaviors in children, teens and young adults. pristiq is not approved for children under 18. do not take pristiq with maois. taking pristiq with nsaid pain relievers, aspirin, or blood thinners may increase bleeding risk.

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eggnog. gingerbread. and you, nutcracker? i like nuts. [ female announcer ] if it tastes like the holidays, we've got it. safeway. ingredients for life. >> now a few minutes with andy rooney. >> rooney: as many of you know who have watched me over the years, i save things. when a drawer fills up with stuff i've saved, i take an empty box and put it in that to save. as you can see over there and in the other room, i always need an empty box for stuff. yesterday, i decided i had to make room for some important papers, and i came across a file of letters that susie had saved. a lot of them were from people you'd know. there were notes from tom brokaw, brian williams, barbara

walters. they were all about something i had done on "60 minutes." i get letters from politicians. ted kennedy, orrin hatch, bill clinton and daniel patrick moynihan, they all wrote me. but of all the letters i've received from politicians, the one i liked best was years ago from senator barry goldwater. i didn't agree with goldwater about much of anything politically, but i admired him a lot personally. and after i wrote a piece about him for "60 minutes" that harry reasoner did, we became good friends. as much as i disliked barry's politics, i couldn't help liking him a lot personally. robert schuller, the pastor of the crystal cathedral in garden grove, california, wrote me a couple of good letters, even though he and i don't agree much about religion. i get christmas cards from the comedienne phyllis diller. even the beautiful loretta young sent me a nice note years ago. of all the letters i've saved, the ones i like best are from

friends i worked with-- arthur godfrey, charles kuralt, walter cronkite, garry moore, and harry reasoner. don't wait for me to throw out the letters i got from any of them. >> kroft: i'm steve kroft. we'll be back next week with another edition of "60 minutes." hey... everyone's eating tacos outside bill's office. [ chuckles ] you think that is some information i would have liked to know? i like tacos. you invited eric? i thought eric gave you the creeps. [ phone buzzes ] oh. [ chuckles ] yeah. hey.

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