the, the, [000:00:00;00] the welcome to world a part of the living within your means is consider that furniture in many cultures with one notable exception the united states was public dat girls roughly by a trillion dollars every 100 days. and the past is used to sustain the so called american dream, the amory of the whole world. but the benefits of these seemingly, unless ballooning a much less apparent validate at least to ordinary people,

how much longer would the united states or rather than american the leaves exist on the assumption that the world owes them a living will discuss that i'm now joined by michael hudson and the american economist undistinguished research professor of economics at the university of missouri. professor hudson, it's great to talk to you. thank you very much for being available. that's good to be here. now i know that your academic interest on academic ambition is in exploring and writing a history of dat from sumerian times thrown secret teacher feudal europe to the present. that i'm sure that must have offered you a unique glance onto the american that which has cross 134 trillion mark recently. do you see that primarily as an economic, as an idea, logical or perhaps as a psychological issue or do you see it as an issue at all on the surface? it's a,

an economic issue. yes. and the logical because of the entire 19th century explained why a death overhead was going to be crushing the economy already. you know, under marks. uh, uh, and uh, the rest of the last of the 19th century people were saying, finance capital is both. an unproductive is an economic bird, but it'd be getting around the 20th century. there was a hole in the allowed to go. claim saying no finance is not a version a the, they find the affairs and the bankers earn their money. it's not on their and income is not again, economic rent like adam smith and john stuart mill in the marks and all of the classical economies said that this debt an interest was unproductive. the in the ology was that everybody's productive. the landlord is productive by providing a service, and john stuart mill said, well, they've got this income in their sleep, they don't work for it,

so there's no real value. so the whole video and she of economics changed a way from an analysis of death. and if you look at the end, it goes through a p h, the economics today in the united states, there's no discussion of that. it was because of the work i did for chase manhattan and realizing that a lot of countries chance pay their debts just like that. like level salt isn't a problem. i work for the united nations for the united nations institute for training and research, saying a 3rd world can pay the deb. nobody wanted to discuss that. but mr. mr. hudson, professor hudson, the united states is not like any other country. the americans believe strongly in the exceptional is meant sometimes the thing american officials don't believe the rules and regulations or laws of nature doesn't apply to other countries, apply to them. what do you think? how do you understand the logic of the success of american administrations,

of let seeing the, the data grow so precipitously? why aren't they wore it as much as you seem to be? logic is quite simple. the american say yes, we're running out of florida, but we're never going to retain that. that if we run spend dollars and other countries, any other country would have to the value or the currency, or they'd have to raise their interest rates, or they couldn't keep running into depth. but america says, as long as we run into a dev and provide dollars, these dollars end up in the hands of others central banks, and these are the central bank savings. so we spend dollars, that's their savings. we're right and i are you, the i o u is never going to be cashed, so we don't have to worry about that. because if they wanted to, uh, withdraw from the dollar area, we'll just send them the army and we'll have a regime change until we get a friendly roseann change that just holds all of our data. so that doesn't matter. that's the attitude of the united states. that's what makes

a state exceptional nation. but in the past this, um, we are full parade to at least serve the american people. there was a believe that in our every successive generation would have a better life than the previous one. and i think nowadays more and more middle income people are struggling to make ends need. and so for a while it's would be ignored or it could be sort of marginalized into sort of deplorable complaining. but it's in, it's a major issue and i believe it has to have some structural solutions. what those solutions could be in? well you've, you've style say that the issue very clearly. that's exactly the issue. uh, the people who are of the teenagers and people in their twenties that i don't have any chance of uh, have of being able to get a house or get a job as easily as i could back in by 36 the years ago. and the open president of

by and tells people the economy is doing just fine by and by our young people opposing me. this is why they were opposing them because they, they, it costs $50000.00 a year to go to college and say, and they have so much student that, that they can't afford to take out a mortgage to buy a house and they're wrong. so they're still living with some parents and the parents so well we never had to pay anything like that. uh and the health care is, uh, so it's more expensive than that ever was. so that the people, the voters say just what you say. things like going down the hill and mr. bies and will say that's wonderful for the offer. look at the stock market because of that. right. well the wealthiest 10 percent are doing great, but the for the 90 percent, that's what you described. it's like the situation is getting worse. well, those 90 percent, i tend to be very proud of that democratic system. can they actually change

anything about the way the country structure the about the way that our economy is functioning, given that they have elections this year? that nobody was running for president, except i think jo style is a 3rd party i go, it was talking about economic policies. they're all talking about military policies or israel and russia. it's uh, take the other many more or less, but nobody's talking about economic policy. and certainly not the economist as well . uh well, additions, uh, very used to deflecting from uh, you know, real concerns of by projecting, you know, some scares onto all the countries. but as you mentioned, the americans are feeling the pinch already. how long do you think they will be able to sort of use foreign policy instead of talking and doing some real policies until other countries such as the bricks plus uh, china, russia, and ryan and the others decide that things don't have to be this white there is an

alternative, and they create a whole set of alternative organizations to the united nations, the international monetary fund world back there has to be an alternative. and one says, and alternative the whole world will gravitate to end up in the united states. so isolated itself is think, since isolating, russia, isolating china, isolating them. but it's isolated so many people that know it's left all alone. and all the rest of the people have to say is we can make our own world. we don't do well to sound like sound. this is already happening. thanks to the us own policy. i mean, the policy of trying to sanction russia or isolated from the rest of the world. i think it clearly backfired against the united states. and i want to ask you about specifically about the russian in china because you called you've been critical of the u. s. foreign policy, and you called the united states a care agent. putting aside the moral considerations. what do you seeing

on the downside of a such a policy for its author is when the united states or the united states was trying to prevent the rest of the world from creating an alternative. the united states is trying to make its own rules. that's what it, those, the rules space order, but that's completely a dogs with international law and the united nations and the role of international law. and so if the united states can site take trading, case pay us if of prevent other countries from getting together at last, the end praising an alternative, most of the chaos is around the countries where the united states has trying to start a colored revolution. and in order to have a regime change to bring a friendlier, more of a pro, your west client oligarchy, into being linked argentina or brazil or germany. and that's the ideal go to

a country who they want leaders of another country to be essentially representing us interests, not the interest of the wrong country. then by pay us, you can prevent countries from spelling out oil, but is our own economic and social interest. but this policy clearly is not working with either russia in china. and i think both these countries are domestically asking themselves very different different the united states. and that they are very circumspect about that public, that they are very conscious about them and painting, economic and social stability about investing into the infrastructure about actually making sure that the people do not suffer. and that the living stand there's a non decreasing precipitous way. i wonder if the united states is running a risk here of not only, you know, that shipping the, the desired goals for impulse and goals, but also in and tugging isaac further antagonizing their own people as well. you

can recognize that the united states doesn't the united states as plan a retail other country selected doke and they obeyed. uh, yeah, but, and they don't have a plan b. suppose you worked for the state department, then you just said, uh what you're saying that other countries have their own interest of the, of their bosses would say, well, you're not a team player. if you don't, we obtain a, if you don't think our team a is a plan, a is going to work that not a team player you don't belong in. the american doesn't have a plan be only a plan. and the reality is a plan b, but they don't have that. there is no room for reality and plan a i'm saying, you know where it's been, you know, in a central nation we can do whatever we want. but mr. hudson. uh, i think this is something that many people around the world are struggling to understand about the united states. you have so many universities, so many things. tanks about so many, so many research commissions and you know, when you,

yourself work on long term historical trans. i'm sure these people in the state department, they, they, they should have access to some of that literature. how call is the baby? they seem to be so ignorant. that's the only read literature that agrees with their position. so j a, the holes are the head of the f. b i in america called any illogical gratification . if you read the new york times or the washington post or the manger media, there's no discussion of that. it's $11.00 story and that's it. professor have some that we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments, stay tuned. the of

the sense world war 2, united states has fostered extremist and 2 russian prejudices and hatreds among the ukrainian d. as for in at least in canada, united states and countries in eastern europe, probably everywhere in the world, it doesn't matter what these groups say or do it will support them if it is, the groups are causing hatred and chaos within the target country. joe again might done choose but who should consecrate dell or sort of do well, i suppose one of the middle i know myself is he's

a potential interest to keep all the way of reaching the get ca uses anyone at anything if there's a religion the, [000:00:00;00] the welcome back to the parts with mike co hudson, an american economist, undistinguished research professor of economics at the university of missouri. now before the break, we talked about, uh, washington, picking up a flight vista, russia in china. and i opened here, here in the russia and increasingly saw in china that washington is waging in

battle, not just with them, but which history is such that it, it is trying to sort of, uh, turn the top and turn back bit tied of history reaches objectively moving away from the uni polar world, i wonder, what do you think about that is not working. the united states trying to impose sanctions on russia. that's the best thing the, the could have happened to russia, because the sanctions on russia, against agriculture, against the other items bo made russia fetus produce a phone food as on agriculture. and now, and so the major grain export or it's, it's no longer dependent on the united states in europe, for manufacturers, for consumer goods. it's making a song. so the buy is set telling the rest of the world don't trade with russia, adult trade with china. they forced these countries to save. all right, we won't depend on the united states. we're going to stop ex,

importing from them. and you'll just have a, the german foreign minister. go to china and say, why won't china buy uh, the more goods from europe today. you're exploring to us more than we're exporting to you. and china said, well, so you, you follow the american sanctions. you won't export computer trips to us. you won't export computer chip making machinery to us. you won't export anything that the united states. those can help work the work feeding people can help the, the feed soldiers to yeah, your euro bang, the united states sanctions and you won't trade with us. so there's, there's nothing they that america, your american bosses will let you export to us. so that's your problem. to take it up with your bobby, with the united states, not with us. so actually russia and china are in the driver's seat. no, they can say it'd be one sections against the. then we're just not going to try and

with you and keep it at all and american someplace they depended on russia and china for many raleigh carols, even further engines for us. rockets that go to the moon is dependent on russia. all the rest of it has to say is either of all or nothing. you know, we're happy to send you what you need if you will give us what we need. but if you're the one to do that, they have other people to trade with that, but i think it's not only china or russia, i think the majority of the world wants to know, develop its economy productively, wants to be respected, wants to be treated fairly in economy in politics, why is it so difficult for, for the west to understand that, i mean it's not in the economic issue anymore. it seems to be like some the see that psychological question that for some reason a decision makers in the west cannot understand like you need to talk to people

with respect so that they tribute in the same way that the americans understand that very well. they understand what the, the rest of the world wants. they don't want that. they says they want other countries to be defended. and one of the ways they hold other countries than dependency and prevent the countries from doing what they want is there's in the norm, us us dollar that owned by the global cells and by in other countries in the united states and via the international monetary phone can keep saying, well, we will create a currency crisis for you. yeah, we are out of the, of the dollar to the in order for other countries to do what they want. they have to withdraw from the us orbit, and that means we're not paying the us dollar debt. this down at that was almost an act of war. it was an act of financial award against them by lending money for the am of really only to their find out like our kids lending the money. and that the

on the condition that they privatize and sell off their public domain, their basic infrastructure, their uh, oil and mining rights, their lam america wants to take their wealth forum at the end of donald trump made of declare he said in any deal we make were any country america as to when they're going to be of the losers? that's almost verbatim what he said. then the other countries don't want that deal . where are they going to be the losers? then they're going to have to group together and just say that though it wasn't his own or not that pay the dollar that's, we're not going to export what you tell us. the export we're going to grow are going so that we're going to follow the chinese and russian computer systems. so we don't have to be part of the, of the computer systems and chair chips and the media that the, the us has all of us 5 we're in. we can go our own way that the world is breaking

apart into 2 into 2 sections. and the united states doesn't want to say it, because i've seen that realize of going down the hill and it can exploit it is that's they want to keep the game going of taking and taking as long as they can, as well. but sooner or later reality, we'll check on them. and as you said, it seems to be a pretty broad trend of countries choosing to you know, side way or, or sideline american regulations. not because they, you know, prioritize, rush or china. but because they prioritize that own national interest. now if that trump growth, what alternatives would the west have? i mean, can the west sustain itself within its own cam doesn't have enough resources, doesn't have enough infrastructure enough capital enough acu man. and that's the strategy to exist within its own bubble, no cap, because united states,

as the industrialized has moved all of its industry to foreign countries, is dependent on role materials from other countries is there is such a high debt overhead in the united states. the incident depend on it, so you'd have many of the corporations and the banks go insolvent and bankrupt. so no, the west tab, except that the united states have just one big war that's taken 3 years. it's one the war against europe in germany. it's made germany in europe completely independent then, so it's going to depend on european purchases of the arms through nato. european purchases of american gas and other german firms are moving to the united states where they can get an expensive energy, some firms and moving to china. but europe as a dense on your end, it's all going to look like last the end. the bowls and countries declining population declining industrialization, but all of this,

so there are all of this decline of your will be a flow individualist over new list though, is very strong. now, because the goal of money is leaving europe, so the united states. so it's not a go for a while, it's going to always go on longer than yes. i know, professor hudson, i know that you have served as a consultant to many governments and international organizations. if i were to ask you to give some advice to, let's say, developing nations on how to talk to the united states. because the american style of negotiating can be very intimidating. but as you pointed out, you know, those countries also have some leverage right now. they have some alternatives. how would you advise them to conduct the, you know, relations with the united states in a fair manner and not in an adversarial manner, but then the self serving and fair manner will realize in the 1st place that america is a paper tiger. and if you look at on america waged on economic war against russia

since 2020, to look at how it strengthens russia. look at america's war against china. our strengthens china. yes. ok to be america's enemy. just don't try to be a friend. you can, you can both say it in the american orbit and with a new civilization was 85 percent of the world's population showing that 85 percent and worked together. there's no way you can work in the united states without the united states trying to explain, you know, now we have only a few minutes left them in this time i want to ask you about what's going on in gaza. you recently rolled that some 50 years ago when you were working with the hudson institute. there were some number, some must not agents who were being trained with you and you suggested that one of them currently serves as the main advisor through the israeli prime minister benjamin. that's now court and yes yes. who is the are right and yeah,

and he suggested that's what is happening in the region right now. your heard being discussed the half a century ago. what exactly was it? all of this is plan to be at the end and the israel was supposed to play the role of leading local revolutions. they at that time and they didn't have isis. and the terrorist groups, the fun, they thought that the front of the yeah, the enemy of the chaos and them may was going to be bulk of spam. so and so be getting at that time the ca begin to move. it's uh, the agents end of the loop to stem, hoping that that would work against the ramp. but now that you advise us, you have a israel playing. the role is managing isis, and it's working as americans foreign legion. so america is recruiting these uh what hobby, uh, sort of crazies and they're staring them against syria. they're staring them against russia and all along its borders. well, what's happening and goes,

that's up. it's been already, it's very unpopular in america. most americans are against the war. uh and you can, there's a huge propaganda of that for the universities are expelling. i still have them send professors to say that does the palestinians are human beings, obviously president by and knows that he cannot be re elected as well. uh, waging a genocide in palestine. now the question is, uh, in the newspapers it says bite. and this towing netanyahu don't attack around, but most of the say, most of the national security council has wanted to attack a ram for the last 10 years. that's always been the plan. so the question is, is by and saying all of this, so to me for a show to make it up here is if america won't help is real. if there is a fight or is america trying to tell me nothing. yeah. ok. you know, between us, go ahead and do it and then we'll come and then we'll have the final fight against

the ram. that's not nobody know, so that's the 1st sort of hats. and the one thing that i'm sure you, you may know is whether america or israel for that matter, have resources for that kind of 5. because it's one thing to sound the and you know, some military aid to ukraine or even to israel, but to wage a war against a major country that has powerful allies not only in the region, but also around the world. that's quite a different that they taking, they may want all they want, but do they have the resources to carry it out? that's the whole point. the resources are m, i 6 n o in england. and let's say uh the american. all right, so uh the thing is they do attack or ran. you can be absolutely certain the united states, us behind them, 100 percent. that is have, and that's why i around says, we understand that the united states as the enemy, the israel, of course, israel's, if it attacks us,

is the enemy. but we're going to retaliate against the united states themselves into waves. number one, against the american troops occupying iraq, syria, number 2 was thinking a ship in the strait of our moves. this is what we were talking about 60 years ago . if you have a shift in our models, uh the oil from a 70 or 80, it cannot be export and you will have an oil prices store. so you can imagine that this is good news for russia out of all this. and that's, that's really the question around doesn't really have to fight back is real and america, that's all it has to do is 2nd ship and to remove this and uh, there goes the price structure and the inflation in the united states in europe. well, i assume she can sooner or later come home to roost, and that may be the outcome of the policy that the united states has perceived pursuit for so many tickets. we have to leave it there. professor hudson, thank you very much for your time. perfect. traveling man,

and thank you for watching cope's this here again, on the world's a part of the, on the, i'm not sure come on this as they will show a good this things for me. what's going on with me is the non smoker in your mind story enough to monday. so stuff with interested in show erica, by

a demo print that issue in your store or do i have to wake up with one of my that's not i was myself of guys through treeless man that way people. so i didn't want to . right. uh you're yeah, for the most just what i want to move over here now is particularly the group come around quite inflate and move on this crazy nice. not crazy. this is it. absolutely. i'd rather proof of an issue with the much just isn't good. that the so the give you, i'll send you the wrong. i'm not ready to feel understood where so where i'll send you when

you are still at the trip with us, which is really nice for you. so you're still going yes. sort of the the whole not so again, so we want to destroy it and then it's getting close to the boy is shipped the special issue in the last as a command, let's say skim hijacks. yeah. can we get to it from us? well,