tops, people were never going to change them on something and never change their minds about video. they think i was wrong, and that's it. the i'm action or it has a welcome back to going underground broadcast people around the world from the u. a . one of the 1st name to a nation that's against the greatest you and that's about times julian assigned was not to assassinate him, but to use paypal on the internet to prevent people power organizing to donate funds to weekly leeks before the british tortured him control of money is a determinant feature of imperial, a gemini, and now from palestine to venezuela, to iran, korea rusher, and china native nations use money sanctions to impose your political will, but with the growth of so called cashless society crypto in fintech. is it the end

of new york on edge amount of power of money? it's k y c and swift banking systems that can easily be bypassed. and what about how this is happening while actually in nature of countries fintech and it's b r is used to impose totality. irene control over populations red scott is the old of cloud money, cash cards, crypto and the wall for our wallets. and the heritage guide to global finance hacking the future of money. you joins me now for bill in germany. thank you so much read for coming on before we start talking about the money gold. uh, your, your view on crypto given that need to use is very diverse. it's being very volatile and it's meant in the past year or so, nato nations don't seem to be able to sanction those they wish to sanction, to sanction labor. because cook joe big going, bypasses washington. so yeah, being kept a printer has a kind of a be used as a sort of um i guess a kind of like a side. so to the global monitoring system. i think when i'm, when i and think about the coin and stuff like that, it's a, a suit as

a kind of system of digital collectibles that can be moved around the show. if you're in a place that's being spanks and you can use those digital collectibles. to bypass the banking sector and so on. but they're highly volatile, right? so that it's, it's the, it's, it's not an ideal uh alternative to the existing monitoring system. but they do form a kind of parcel counsel to the existing ministry system. just not a very good one. and of course national security agencies could be causing the volatility is on people a suspect. but interesting me, you said that in nature countries, i suppose these what you meant crypto is malign in the way that it teaches children of bad things about what money is. yeah. well, i mean, diamond is, there's kind of like a reality to effect glenda isn't in a fantasy, right? so the reality is quite simple. the reality of that coin is actually what they're,

as i've described to those digital collectibles that have limited edition, the digital objects that can be moved, moved around grass, and that's fine. they have prices, they get price on the market, right. the fence to see is that there a competing monetary system to the us dollar. okay. um and so, and in order for that promotes is all of those objects to convince people that these are a tons of videos to all of that. the results are a lot of conservative minus the ideology, dr. step to present these things as being digital gold and was going to stop and that often those results and then drawing on lots of tribes, civil stair, etc. essentially, right? the idea that money should be a constrained thing, right? it shouldn't be like a commodity, and that's pretty much what market stocks are and people like that used to use

windows saying, oh, we can't afford to lose money is a constrained commodity. so we got the cuts privatize everything and stop spending on health care and stop spending an education, right, because we can't find the money. right, so this whole idea of money is a constrained commodity is very plastic, part of austerity thinking. and if you're thinking about how you train that teenage, i just think like that's the kinds of very good way to do that, right? because i'm using the great thing about that is that a single tennessee doesn't actually challenge the existing monitoring system. right? so uh you want to think about it as being like a kind of and it rides on top of the existing monitor system rather than bypassing it, i guess. so the net effect actually of promoting the ideology is that the, the conservatives of the normal monitor uses the cf money system. get more powerful because their message is being promoted via that. but i don't know if that makes

more sense. now in that, and of course, your background doesn't have to follow just and a financial broker who nearly ended up in leaving brothers just ahead of the crash . clearly evident there and what you're saying that and, and i think you written about gold. this missed the how gold is taught in schools within the media. have john list to use it as the hey day of money when it wasn't the new liberal model of money you, you smash went to pieces a well look. i'm not like a economic coast star and that specializes in talking about every, at every era of the monitoring system, right. there's a lot of new on some stuff that has been out is talk about that the thing. but the most important to realize that the, in the model in imagination rides, a lot of conservatives will 6 sites upon an imagined history of gold rush. and the

political use of that is to create the idea that what money should be as good. as i mentioned that's, that's the right idea. it should be a constrains commodity that's in the hands of credit. so it is essentially right that you citizens dilutes the power. right? so the whole kind of story about gold being the positive money has a very strong conservative lineage. in reality, there are elements of gold using a pos of cost. you would have a certain type of gold systems, but they never operated in the way that's a lot of conservative economists would, would claim it. they operate to. but of course, for example, a lot of nation states would actually define the value of goals. it wasn't sort of sofa parents to everybody and store them all, most every day congress wasn't done was go scratch was done with credit systems. so the main points to take away is that the kind of the imagination of gold as the sort of, uh, almost like platonic ideal of money is very problematic brands. and this is,

this is not to say that it wasn't a star to use. was certain things to know that different affords to, into bank lending rates in london, the controls of coal, black. yeah, there's a serious political, political control. the gold system in the past has never was imagines that a few a commodity money like people want to once imagine and very much in that fits when . well, they're drawing on that imagined history of gold to say in the past money was sure . then it became corrupted. now we've made a cure again in this digital form. it's a very kind of puritanical way of thinking about money. and as also it has started seeing that. sure. well, let's just get through a definition and then of money i should just say personally, you know, when i was 1st at the bbc in london, i go to loads of trouble. i was the only person on night shift went bearings banks . when boston, the city of london, and i chose casino b roll pictures to illustrate voiceovers. and right from the top of the bbc they said, never use roulette tables ever a game. when talking about the finance you,

however, use the analogy when defining money, what is money? the method level. um, if you're looking for the most kind of generic description, i would tend to say the money is a system of network access tightens that enable us to access a network of human labor grads. um that's a very broad way of speaking about it and. and if you think about it, a lot of traditional ways of describing money, people imagine that there are some like value stored in money dealt with. but as being a store, all that value as if somehow the objects carries something a bit like, you know, blood or something. right? and the reality is that old value in an economic system is stored in human beings, a natural system, right? that's where everything comes from. the monitoring system is embed it into that

a bit like a nervous system, perhaps if you want to use a biological medical. um, but the units of money essentially are costing claims upon our labor, right? so when you folding money, you're holding claims upon other people. this is what i'm saying is like a network access token as an access to come in and able to access people. that is a very generic description that does a lot of a lot more technical detail about how many pieces and so actually constructed or ad . so the re, the construction of mandatory systems takes multiple different forms right now. the way that the money to them is constructed is, as in layers, are at high rock layers using credit instruments in the core of that as a central bank, but the commercial banking sector right now. issues, lots of the, of the money that we use as well. i can go into the different layers if you'd like it to. but the network asset access code is token has similarities to casino chips . i know that in nato countries, the atm machines seem to be being reduced in lots of,

in the city areas of just explain how the atm, uh, works within the analogy of a caching in the chips. yeah. so what, but basically when you look at the construction of a model, monetary system, um, it has about at least 3 layers, right? so the base layer, but do a kind of a single base money. and i just go like layer one money. it is from central banks, right? and those are pushed out and also sucked back in. right. so you push them out when states are spending and sucked back in, when there's taxation occurring right in the public. that's the cash just right. so the, any form of you want to go to la, one money that we can access. so states money is cash, right? then there's a 2nd layer built on top of that, which is the bank exec to arrive in the mid the mid of for you want to think about

you understand that as i use the casino as a metaphors to help people to cross. that's so if you walk into a casino and you take cash and you handed over to the casino tasha, they're gonna push out, slips to you, right? and those zip, sorry, secondary form of money privately issued or at that is connected back to the cash and you at the end of the not because he doesn't go back and replay in the cash and woke out. so in the banking sector, how does medical works? the one thing about it, when you handing of the cash to a bank, they're not storing the cash for you. they're taking ownership of but i'm from you . and then they push out digital casino, it's up to you. so the units that you see in your bank account, or if you're looking on your online account and you'll find those units or digital casino, substitute up on the banking sector and what's called the cash list. society is when you basically become totally dependent upon those digital casino chips, right? and when you're closing down a gm's right, and these countries in a lot of countries in europe for example. so as soon as you can write all the kind

of bronzes and the atm being set down as a bit like something down, the ability to exits the system to cache out of a system, right? so it's like going back to the end of a night from the casino and saying, hey, i wanna convert much, subtract the cash, and then saying, sorry we, we don't do that anymore. you're not kept it in our system, right? you cannot exit our system. one of the main problems with that medical, the of, of the casino is that to the, to the new onto the bid, is that in the normal casino, so every unit of cash is connected to a, to ship, put it up in our banking sector. the banking sector has the ability to issue spa more digital casino chips and they're having cash reserves. and that's what sometimes called facts. where is the banking? is that what's the created of money at basel these, these strange records in, in switzerland with an organized how much the ratios are. yeah,

exactly. that's basically just explaining that. yeah, those are the different races. the technical ratios and banking are basically about how you manage that. the risk that emerges from that process, right? so the banking sector is pushing out huge amounts of the digital casino chips. and, and what sudden, they're harvesting loan assets, right? so they're not pushing them out for nothing that they so that they push them out on different circumstances of resolve. utah now for the bank and you say get some cash on the deposit ticket. they taking that for you and giving you tips because it could also be a person who's borrowing money. you turn up at a bank and say, can i borrow some money and they'll just push out new tips to read. what that's what they're dragging back from. you and it, so it is a loan asset, right? so, and so what's happening is banks will construct these baton seats with a, with a pushing out these, these disputes, digital chips which are actually a liability to them. but they're distracting. back assets and what's on and that puts them into it and that's the risk. so those capital adequacy races and things

and basel with their debates are basically about how do you manage the risk of this process, right? it's called out small conflict, red scott, i'll stop you the more from the or through the crowd money. why the warren cash and dangers of freedom up to this break the,

the, the, the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with bread scolded with real time money. why the war on cash and dangers of freedom? bread we were talking about those ratios, which they don't really talk about in the financial press of that much them at the leverage levels that eventually get bailed out to actually as they did off the 20 always in fact maybe want to personally just mention how when you are a university, they managed to recruit the so called brightest and best into these industries. and actually they, many of them may go into the media to just spread the wood. that cashless society fintech, these great new changes are important then if you don't believe in them,

you are a luddite. yeah, so when i was the university of goldman sachs and jp morgan and you know, maryland sort of as big players with a sort of hover around the lead universities and try to recruit. and since the 5 is still the graduate. so please create the idea that what success meant as being part of the professional services industry. and that was around but, but i was in the financial sector on the time of the, the financial crisis. and interestingly, since the financial crisis, what happened around the time is actually big tech started to get more sexy grad. so actually the idea of what was uh, something to aspire to start to shift the next the over the years since the financial crisis. a lot of those graduates, so to get attracted to the big tech companies or to defend tech companies, an authentic sector is actually the sort of rome with big tech needs, big finance, right? with the auto mason, all the big finance. but in the early as part of pose the financial crisis of 2008,

the student tech industry kind of look a little bit black, it was a kind of revolutionary democratization of finance, which is the very sort of typical tech narrative when they automates things. i talk about it as being a revolution. also may have some a democratized stuff. so, so the fence x, i had that narrative so. so so, so this situation right now is it actually big sack has become more powerful than big finance, but there certainly are joining together in various ways, right? via these been 2nd for structures and part of that part of products manifesto economic society right now, for example, has an attack on the cast system, right? because their minds cash is a full of money that's very hard to automate. a lot of human beings really love the cast system and find it very useful, but big companies do not like the cash system because it con, automates it scratch. um and so, you know, in the case of big tech companies like amazon, they will,

lets me cannot operate with cash. but even, you know, the big supermarket, it's now and big is big retailers and stuff they, they actually would prefer to work with a big tech companies and to deal with ordinary human beings, dealing with physical money. right. so the automation drive is part of corporate capitalism. more generally and does money. first thing in our society is a sort of ideological attack on the cash system. and they'll tell you that if you still want to use cash or somebody stuck in applause, there's something wrong with you. you're not, you don't believe in progress, which is another way of saying you don't believe in corporate automation of our society. is it different though, in global south countries where the development is not at this stage of late capitalism? they're catching up to a stage where they might be able to democratize. we spoke to pull the ecuadorian central bank or an adult, andrea, or as who said, uh, community digital uh,

national bank guarantees would be important. give people ideas of stakes in their societies, rather than private bank. yeah, so was, if you look at power, the global system lives, rides, it lives in the us and europe in new jersey assist you in the china, right. so, so the actual narrative, the step that i get and a mini global south countries, when you have leaders who all have both to sort of sort of the cool a doesn't where they will often actually parent that same ideology. even though in global soft countries, often people actually know, for example of themselves, africa and south africa of electrical infrastructure is down for 4 hours a day, sometimes 6 hours a day. but the idea that you're gonna do desires everything is a fantasy, right? actually in this country like semester, you're interested in resilience, right? so things are cast, but actually really useful. but still the ideology that comes from silicon valley

will come the 8th through the, the, the consonant tribes. now inside of clay, it'd be honest in a different way. it could be the search in south africa because they to yeah. so for example, in the african context, you'll have talks about digital solvency. your actual have local and select those local politicians or debates, whether it's possible to the tax from the main it's national system. and so actually for some, some of autonomy to say that kind of we would have to not be touching the reliance but visa, mastercard. so you mentioned andreas arouse from, from ecuador, i use a friend of mine under as, so that basically the global digital payment systems are controlled. essentially, by visa, mastercard, the swift network, the us bangs federal reserve, the data at the sort of apex of that system. and if you're a country like equitable, you basically have no rights within that system. so if you're a us citizen, you can maybe dom on some rights in the, in the sort of these are mazda cod system. you can say, well i, i don't want to be spied upon, but if you're in ecuador instead of then you don't get those right. so in that

context, that's called a digital sovereignty becomes very important because you can say, well, actually with maybe form some parallel system. all right? and it's a very hard thing to do. that's, that's, that's why, for example, under, as little promote the idea of a central bank digital currency in a place like ecuador. right. and yeah, and what do you zoom out to look at the overall system? the power lines with a big us funds and at least and then in the sort of western world it in a tiny steps. but when we, i know we were talking about casual society and, and the myth of convenience and the p r spin to persuade us on digital central bank currencies, then the, do they offer more national sovereignty over the economy of, for any democratically elected the government? because they're outside and could be outside of the washington. good type of physically. yeah, it really depends on how they're other implemented. i mean,

even even actually in european countries and stuff is the 10 silver cbd, it seems to have the ability to counter the power of the banking set to remember that that, that sort of image i painted of the amenities as a model citizen, having multiple players and kind of, you know, there's a sort of central bank that ends all the commercial banks. and what's it called with the cash flow society is rarely when those commercial banks take over and you have to use their kind of digital casino tips of all your payments. now, many years ago actually monitor a form groups started saying the commercial banking sector is too powerful, right? so we need to actually have a new form of digital states, money to compete with it. so hypothetically, if a central bank started is doing a new type of digital money or offer you an alternative to, to having a bank account. so and so is a, and this could have even in countries like the u. k, for example. imagine that the bank of england started saying we're gonna offer an

account that you're gonna use, and that's gonna compete with players like bought plays and h s, b c. right? and that's what actually a central bank digital currency. it's hypothetically, it could be, it's not where the w t o steps in or yeah, yeah. so, so the reason that somebody's saying this is against privatization and therefore i a liberal a. so is it a radical version of c? b, c is definitely not popular among mainstream leads, right? and so, but that was a potential way of doing it in the past. as ideas you could actually have, there's almost like a public infrastructure on digital payments that would compete with the private one . the reason why things like sense of bank digital currency are being discussed right now. there is not because of that radical vision. the reason is that during the pandemic is a mass of dropping cash usage, as everyone was forced online and central bank, and suddenly you realize that there's a potential financial stability problem that emerges when the cash system goes down

. right now that's a whole kind of structural problem in the monetary system. so they said maybe we need to sort of think about creating some kind of alternative to cash in digital form. but because the central bank is don't want to harm the banking sector and don't want to compete with it too much. they're watering down all the cdc proposals, the site. if we do this, we'll get the private banks to kind of run it for us and it was to disturb them. but basically, so there's, there's multiple versions of the c, b, c, uh, of the design. it's gonna have that the current version is being proposed in the, you know, you're sort of the european countries. i'm not very radical. the hypothetically in us level south country, you could implement the cdc some way to create a local digital infrastructure. because there might be, even in the global south country, your local banks also going to be starting with visa and mastercard, right? cuz they gave me when to get into the international system. so sometimes your local banks are working against your digital sovereignty. as aware,

central bank digital guarantee will just find these a year of elections. how do you think uh, the powers that be easily managed to persuade? electra to around the world will be voting this year. that the grocery shop analogy of how and economy works is the way the economy works. they seem to manage should be able to say there isn't enough money to pay for this. they will offer this in the manifesto. given that you are explaining something, even more complicated about the future of money. are you, are you asking me how they will the grocery store, i mean this grocery shopping that there isn't enough money. does that make any sense to you when the yeah, well, i mean, i suppose though the, the traditional way they, they try to present themselves as being like a house. so that's a very classic tax for rides. idea that the government has like a, is like a household like any other and it has limitations on his budget. right. which is

not true. i mean one of the ways to think about this is to imagine like um, doing this medical for the works. but i can open the 3 vs squirrels, right? so squirrels run around trying to get the acorns, but the actually once the squirrels that take its acorns. right. and this is very much like the states in the monetary system. we imagine ourselves, the squirrels, you know, try to get the money, trying to work hard to find the money. but actually the state issues, money is like an oak tree. so when it's a gauge and it's got a mess, the raid that is like a giant squirrel that also has like a limits to how much, how many knots it has. that's a kind of fantasy as a political fantasy. and it's also very useful political fantasy, post certain types of people who want to privatize stapo got public services, right. so there's a huge pop up 6 to speaking about money as this is some kind of, you know, limits of supply of knots. and that's classic austerity politics, right. so, um and yeah,

so that i don't know how positions will will do it this coming. yeah. but it's always a massive part of the electoral politics. and yeah, there's a, there's also the big elements of it as well that that comes into it. and there's has been a scam hungry about inflation to say if we try to employed so many people, they'll be in slice. and so we've got to keep a bunch of people unemployed to keep that, keep it down. i don't know the answer your question, but it's a big question. answerable logistic on them. is zoo all. logistically, brad? scott, thank you. all right, thanks a lot. that's it for the show for them, but we're bringing you new episodes every sunday and monday until then. you can keep in touch. my last social media is nonsense that in your country, and i do i channel going on around tv, hon. they'll come to watching you and all the episodes of going underground season, [000:00:00;00]

the when the world's largest democracy votes, the rest of the planet watchers in an emerging multi polar world india as voice matters. but who will be the power behind watches, almost 1000000000 people decide and billions more,

react the the video was used because that's really, that's what happened in this forest village. 18 years ago with miss testament,

things of those things that are still needing inform you to the people that allow them to down the rest of a sense of the fix. a queue from the zip code to you see an option for you. i sure we name those who found and executed 149. be sure. right. well no you know, for to be able to go through the the 80th anniversary of the tragedy. we present