that boy who can not be brought back from the dead race in ocean r t reporting from palestine. you know that story continues right now online at all to dot com, but for now that's it for me for them. i would know thanks for sharing a time to all of us here at the asi, international mothership in the the adoption or tendency. welcome back to going underground rule got single around the world from the u. a. it's been a week since president vladimir persian was re elected by the russian people in a landslide victory. but that hasn't stopped us, president biden. and his washington proxy nations in nature continued to um, a zalinski and kia of who was outward elections in ukraine. but i knew that and the landscape is made peace talks illegal. and then last week, often nuclear,

wanting some food in russia, claim that surveillance and revealed president macro plans to deploy 2000 french soldiers to kill russians. in addition to a new level u. k. troops already and ukraine revealed and intercepted german military phone. cool. they probably don't remember that it was 41 years ago this month. the u. s. president ronald reagan who successfully helped to destroy the us, i saw, proposes never implemented style was space based. ms file system, someone who will is reagans, assistant secretary of defense, who in post, administered about 70 percent of the us defense budget. dr. larry co op is no senior fellow at the center for american progress and he joins me now from washington dc. thank you so much, doctor called for coming on. so boots in congratulated 87 percent of the vote congratulated by china india, the whole of the global south international community. i mean, given the us, the think tanks even can see the version is candy popular in russia. in your

experience during the reagan administration, could you ever imagine that there be no communication, seemingly, between blinking and his counterpart between biden and coaching? because that's what they're saying right now. now, particularly toward the end of the reagan administration, or i should say in the 2nd, uh, 2nd time he was visiting with, with the, with the, with the russians. we had contact with the russians on a lot of ball areas, and particularly when reagan develop, what we call star was on the strategic defense initiative. a lot of boss knew that it was, you know, it was very, very difficult. strategically for that to happen or conceptually, but the russians believed it. the russians believe that if we work to do that and spend this type of money, that there must be something something to it, even though most of the experts you know, felt it was politic. uh not,

it was practically impossible. clearly how you won the cold, cold war. you in new york team there in dc. but how dangerous is it that the telephone, the red telephone isn't being used given. we have explicit uh from the kremlin, uh, at least the context of nuclear weapons being invoked. and um, i mean, nuclear weapons clearly being invoked in this region in the middle east via is riley cabinet ministers. but why do you think that hasn't been any high level contact given it's so obvious that uh, no, even conventional hypersonic miss i'll use the nuclear use is now a possibility in western europe. well, you've got 2 reasons. one trump got out of kind of some of the arrangements that we had made with the, with the russians. and then of course, once this war started, the russians cut off all of these talks because we were 80 ukraine. i think that,

that really no, i don't think it was russia cutting off the dogs. they've been pretty expensive. so is this like a lab over the foreign ministry in russia? it's the americans that are refusing to talk as well. but basically, when the russians in bay, the ukraine, they basically, we felt we could not continue dealing with them to all the other issues because this was so important. i know russian didn't object you know, to, uh, you know, the cutting off the talks. in fact, if you look at the speech that you gave on february, the end of february, they're about nuclear weapons. he talked all about possibly using the tactical nuclear one. this is an obvious, i mean, from you with your perspective over many decades. and it was clear, lee mentioned the other day on going underground. actually, i remember the foreign policy for a moment in moscow saying that this was

a surprise in russia with the way the united states is sending in billions of dollars. weapons, knowing that pressure has nuclear weapons. this is a kind of different stage in the, in the evolution of mutually assured destruction. well, i say to are obviously our dealings with russia all during the cold war. we could basically, for example, in the korean war, they were back in north korea. we were obviously backing out of south korea in vietnam. they were backing the north vietnam base and we back in south nice. but we still were unable to deal with nuclear weapons separately. and there was communication between my own dc. yeah. and basically if you look at the cuban missile crisis, you know, once that happened, then we, you know, we really, uh, you know, when full speed ahead. but the talks recognizing how close we came to

a nuclear war, that was my 1st year in the navy. we all thought it was over. you know, we just thought that that was going to be yet at. but the fact of the matter is we're able to avoid that, and i'm confident that at some point we can resolve this horrible situation in ukraine satisfactorily. we'll get back to the talks because remember, new start doesn't expire until 2025. so we have a couple of, we have a, a couple of years to do it. i know you're measuring start negotiations and they're very important. but you know, i am british and there exist this western european part of the world. uh that uh, that could be a that could be the battlefield across the united states of state because rusher is safe. the war of attrition continues. boucher is fine with that. as it may be, approaches a desk. but if there are french soldiers there, i mean, there are british soldiers there already, according to that phone call. but, you,

you, i mean, surely there is the possibility that of nuclear strikes invest in europe. but in this limited field, you mentioned tactical nuclear weapons that were raised by letting me push it. well, we have troops in europe as well. i mean, you know, we've got the, you know, tens of thousands of troops and yeah, but you're not germ united states isn't going to use a nuclear weapon in a conflict against russia when that conflict is going on in west, in your visit. because the united states will be destroyed. well i, i get you got strategic and you've got tactical nuclear weapons. we have nuclear weapons in your that we could use if we had to. but i think the real che, here, right, sorry to stop. you have just explained that you have nuclear weapons around stain a base in germany. why would, why you don't know who it's over ukraine with the united states risk be to the mass killing of every american over ukraine as well. basically there's always

a risk, but i think we need to convey to the russians that even if they use so called tactical nuclear weapons in europe, there's going to be a response and we would be willing to take the risk you talk about. because if they do that, then we don't respond all and you think the american people to pull it back? yeah, i basically, we don't talk about nuclear weapons a more. i mean, what happens all during the cold war that was always brought incentive to the congregation kids getting onto their desks in school and at ever to like, we just don't think about it much anymore. and i think if you said to people in the next election, are you for or against new star, i don't think people would really focus on. and that's rather unfortunate because we thought with the strategic defense initiative and the collapse of the soviet union, we have put that era behind us. but another development here that's important as

china is developing nuclear weapons. so if you've got to go back to ox control, negotiate, yeah, i'm not. so i have to hear by the arms control here. i'm talking about the immune and to use of weapons of mass destruction on this scale. because of jo bible's policy in ki, about supporting zalinski, who is made illegal, the idea or a peace negotiations as a lawyer in colorado as well. they basically, i think you've got 2 things. one is the public in terms of what so lensky is saying, the other is private and you've got bill barnes who is the director of the c. i a used to be in boxes or to russia and i'm sure he's keeping the dialogue open. we wouldn't say it, but on the other hand, i think it's important to keep in mind that we still have to charge the russians. they've got to know if they use them. we're going to respond to the x ray one. i mean, i mean, i can see why trump is writing high in the opinion polls,

because clearly the american people, i mean, you must be your hunch that the american people would not want them all to die. all hundreds of millions of americans want to die to support volume is zalinski and ki, have, i mean, that is not what americans want. that's may be why there's a building trump against by. well, the, basically, the majority of people support what we're doing in ukraine and support the fight against the russians. not every body. and we've always had diversity in our country going back to, you know, go back and look at the 1952 election between eisenhower and cast. and you go back and you take a look. we have had these things. so that is not anything that's new. we very rarely get a 100 percent of people who agree on everything possible such a diverse country. but i think the majority are in favor of letting food know that

if you should be foolish enough to use nuclear weapons, we will respond. well then, why does joe biden have to be so clear that no one us soldier will be fighting present lensky on the ground and ukraine is it keeps reiterating. well basically, i think he's saying that the cause of the fact we don't need that if we can provide the aid. i mean, the russians thought they were going to win that warner we, i was in mosque out in december of 2021. and i couldn't believe what though, the russians, they were getting ready to invade. and one of the points i made to them we had used to have this, nate on russia dialogue dealt with nuclear weapons that i had lots of contacts in russia. i thought they would have an insurgency, even if they went in, i didn't realize they would get so much less than uh, support right away. and i think that dumpster found that the russians that we were able to get, not just the united states, but most of natal,

we've expanded natal. i mean that's already been a loss for the russian. sorry. what i mean, the russia has more nuclear weapons in any other country in the world. the exposure nato doesn't alter the fact that all of those companies can be wiped out in a matter of 30 minutes and isn't a surprise here. they're probably some dumbfounded russians at how strong the russian economy is become, and how the alliances and deals with the global south it's support. so i mean, rush has been supported economically created by china or india, the entire global. so against these nature of countries that you mentioned, the minority of the world as well. of course they all, but the fact of the matter is deterrence still exists. united states has embark on a modernization of all 3 legs of it's nuclear triad. and basically, it's gonna be much more capable over the next decade than it is right now in terms of being able to use nuclear weapons. if heaven forbid it should come to that. so

we're not hope we can talk a lot. but i'm a nuclear also is going to be much better than his because he doesn't have the money to do what he needs to do, given the russian economy. go for larry club of stop you. the more from the former us assistant secretary defense after this break the hello and welcome to cross the full board. here we discuss the wheel in the

the welcome back to going on the right. i'm still here with senior fellow at the center for american progress and former u. s. as it's in defense extra. dr. larry called okay, cool. we've been talking about the advance and new to the technology in the united states. prepare it over the next decade, arguably that you know, it's gonna have to be sooner than that, if you hear voices or even in the policy think tanks of the of moscow. um, do you think in this election year, joe biden is clearly willing to pursue the $60000000000.00 which congress has been holding up to pour into the landscape accounts. he's clearly continuing in the south china sea with china. he's supporting the bombing of, uh, syria and iraq because of the gaza genocide. he's blooming human as we speak. he's continuing what's happening in haiti off to president obama are over

through the government there. and he's fighting the underground. who knows, in west africa with molly and book you know, fast. so how, how many wars is he going to create in the election? we how, what is this defense post here? and can you understand why trump in every riley talks about peace rather than war is the future? well, i certainly can't understand what buying district is doing. first of all, the priority he's giving in the money he spends in our defense budget, which is close to a tray in dollars. you've oppose it in the past. actually just uh, andrew, up there, the amounts the amount we spend on annual lake on the boat on national security is a bout a trillion dollars. now. the direction we're going and basically the main thing of the normal, all the defense budget ad basically is to deal with china. these other

things that we're after you've talked about that we're spending on that comes over and above the regular budget. the $60000000000.00 will not come out of the normal defense budget, nor will $40000000000.00 that's, you know, targeted for of, for israel. we have forces deployed in the middle east. we've had them in europe. and the whole situation in haiti, we just sent the maurice back there to protect people are in the embassy. our problem is going to be dealing with the haitian refugees that are going to try and come by boat to the united states. and some of the southern governors are not happy about that. but by and large, if you take a look at the percentage of the gross domestic product, the ged paid that goes to defense is about 3 percent during the cold war was 6 percent. and as a result of what was done, the europeans have finally met, the 2 percent of ged paid that trump used to say was

a reason for us to adopt supporting nato costs. they weren't reading well, they're reading it now. okay, so you mentioned there with china or preparing for something with china. i mean, the 40000000 americans kind of eat tonight without federal aid as part of your snap food stamp program. do you think ordinary americans want to prepare for a war with china? which china are always denies, it has no intention of having a war with the united states in the game up on all of this. i mean, i'm speaking to you from the middle east where clearly the rules based order so beloved as a phrase by jake sullivan. national security advisor and add to the blinking of the 2nd is that it's a, it's out the window because the united states as being back in genocide in the middle east. no one trusts the united states has anything to do with rules based order of un resolutions or anything else. you think of all of this is mounting

towards the idea of some sort of idea of retrenchment and caring about ordinary americans. rather than this war preparedness for countries in denver said that they wanted more of a before with the united states. so again, if you take a look, can you compare it now to the cold war in terms of what we spend on defense? the percentage of ged your gross domestic product is less per pulse defense budget for fiscal year 2025, which starts out there's this got public september is not even a real increase. it's a one percent increase, which is not enough to keep pace with inflation because at the deal the bite made was former speaker mccarthy are basically right before he got the voted out of out of office. so it's not a question of the they say during the cold war and we were spending more than half of our tire federal budget in a much larger percentage of g d. p. on the fence. there are many people in the

united states. we've always had them who don't think we ought to be involved in a lot of books are in the conflicts, but they're not a majority. and if you take a look, for example, the war i was in vietnam, people supported that until they realized we had no strategy for waiting. and just like a play on his gun more recently, and it's a huge one. doesn't even need to go that that far back for that. so you're just saying that the as regards the hold up there has been for the 60000000000 to the landscape, which is go with patrick in western europe. and that was more to do with trump full ethics rather than a belief in congress and the wider american public that you've lost this war. this whole ukraine proxy war of the dead bodies of hundreds of 1000. that's a 1000000 dead ukrainians as being just another disaster. after libya, iraq, syria,

i've gotten this done. vietnam allow cambodia and i don't know whether i remember the most. well again, you got to go back and say, despite all of our mistakes and we certainly have made them like any other. com and we won the cold war, we prevail. now the russians obviously have changed ever since reagan and gorbachev . never, they were going to get rid of all nuclear weapons. we wouldn't support. and all of the things you talked about america is we don't have a draft anymore. so americans are not forced to serve if they don't law. and i think by these policies have been very true to keep things from getting out of hand, where they proved inviting me regarding the accounts. and of course, by now of our leon, like during those times saying it's about military keynesian isn't. is all even so much about ukraine. actually, ukraine is just by the, by, it's about jobs in the united states, the defense spending, we had trucks, many of the infamous uh, pending whistle employees. on this program,

people watch it on rumble about the waste of money that you've written about yourself so, so this is actually about jobs in the united states, and biden is being prudent. but what about west and your of i keep coming back to this western europe faces incredible instability. it's an economic crisis. germany is in recession. we know about the north stream pipeline, the just to injure one of us atrocity a. going to see more hush, the great to john list to expose my life. what about west and you're a rush, you're in the united states might be fine. the united states might be under the, by the military keynesian isn't great from all of these military items making jobs . but what about wisdom? you are, i think western europe is doing much better now than they did before the russians invited, in terms of their cohesion with each other. after all,

could you have the french in the united kingdom said they, drugs are in there. they are increasing their desire. i don't remember, but i got into of that because i have some of the, you know, i mean all of sholtes and jeremy 73 percent, one insect macro or somebody one beside these is the latest opinion. both one him out of office. you in a store of no way one him out. 71 percent soon act of britain. 66 percent. when him a router fall and 65 percent millennium a austria now a 63 percent. went him a very good, you know, island i think is going already, of course is in sweden, 55 percent, one and then they're all unpopular. they're countries are in the economic turmoil. the numbers are poverty, the any quality rising as they've self sanction themselves outside the world economy, which is, as we can look at the russian statistics improving of, beyond the, beyond any russian expectation baths, as the rest of the world improves western europe in prices. and it's giving rise to

social movements clearly that oppose washington policy and do not want any opinion more if is the landscape well, basically, i would disagree with you. i think, yes, one of the people of europe is on me. i guess i'm going to talk about the people in your they obviously are unhappy with their government over a lot of things. but you gotta remember, you gotta go back to the cobra. the ink pack that cold would had on the global economy was horrible. and basically, the russians, who was russia doing so well as well? she is not doing so well. okay. in terms of about, basically what they're able to do in terms of provide education for their people to when you have seem to find and are dress, i believe every yeah, even the economist, the usual reverse barometers usually i think every, every publication the world recognizes the russian economy is done well out of this war, the russian to go and they have saying it's,

they're saying it's military keynesian isn't on the russian side of the russian economies. doing so well the war economy. but of course, the, the russian government says it's because more generally the alliances, they made through bricks and the alliances of this new world world with china. well, i, again, i disagree with you doing well in the sense of the spending on the military and they're doing that, but they're having to get, you know, criminals to go fight this war and you pray and they're not getting the russian people with the rush of people were so satisfied they be voluntary to, to deal with what potent status is. you know, an existential law. don't show a base as we have other than us propaganda or outlets for the has a big they, they're having to get to criminals to fight the war. and isn't the war i mean you're in depends again, can you not see, this is a war of attrition. they've taken that side of ukraine. well, we have to do is wait it out. and if what you're saying is right about the russian

economy, why was put in elected it this land slide, you must admit boots and is more popular in russia than any european leader is in western europe. that's a fun, joe biden in the united states, that i would disagree with, that the quote was all confident. why do they have no bodily chill? okay, and if you take a look at the, the only work you had about held to develop the only had 5 percent of the vote in any west student polling of a rush or you didn't need to have him killed any if he, as west and the media came, he did have him guilty, was not going to win the election. and just on that particular point, you make the you saying that joe biden is more popular in the united states right now. the vladimir putin is in russia. i would say yes. if you've got to is a real of what peer basically it will basically look is a test which uses the gentleman based pulling,

but we look at every polling from i'm talking about weston polling. i'm gonna tell you about russian criminal and propaganda ones. you think biden is more popular in the united states and put in is in russia we're realistically sure. but basically important who are so popular, why does the doctors let no ball they run against them and let him in a previous denied any involvement in the valid me who i say the just like i'm on speaking the most them country and we have anyone can look on the on line to see nevada. nice thing. the extermination of muslims was his agenda. so be careful about talking about novelle and the extreme right wing, the nationalist who supported the occupation of prime. yeah. did i? i thought you oppose. let me get onto the trump. what happens in a trump presidency? is the front runner to win in november? what do you expect to trump to do? he said reputedly to victor all about of hungry in my log or the other day that he'd and all funding for the proxy war through ukraine as well. again,

i think he will try, but he will also try and get out of nato, but the congress has passed the law, say he can't get out of nato without them permission. and basically, if you take a lot, trump will talk a good game. okay, but it's going to be very hard for him to, to do things. is that the crowd of getting elected president truly is allowed to do see if he's running america, the united as well. so the, the great thing about our system is we have checks and balances as well as basically by those finding out now with the war to you a to ukraine is real. but if you take a lot to work drunk did what he was in office, i mean what the north korea and basically try to get them to get rid of their nuclear weapons and talked about he increased the band spending dramatically during his time in the office we were versed,

klein of the post cold war down to earn more he he came in. so again, it's hard to tell what trump is going to do because he talks more than, you know, he, he does and not many cases. i don't think it would be good for the united states or the world for him to come in in terms of how things were there were trying to do to be interesting to see what he does in the middle east. we're trying to stop the civilian casualties in our discussions with yahoo. but drunk doesn't seem to be concerned about those things. don't forget, he got out of the nuclear deal with a rad, as we've started them, you know, for both of them that are doing things. so, you know, this whole idea or from comes added things are going to change dramatically in foreign policy. no, i don't, i don't think so. no generic or thank you. okay, thanks for having that. that's it for the show of continued condolences to the survivors of us. you okay. you nation on killing in guys. i will be back with

a brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch federal law. so she'll be driven so extensive in your country and had to our channel going on the ground to feel normal. don't come, don't you new and old episodes of going underground to send the the wrong one. i'll just don't have to see the house and engagement because the trail when so many find themselves will support, we choose to look for common ground, the the,

to all the for suspects and fridays concepts pulled massacre in moscow which claimed the lives of a $137.00 people plead guilty to tears and charges all demand remaining on all of them, their meeting and custody. while the investigation continue to use the as one foot to the job in charge of the moscow and the disabilities who survived are account how they are still alive. one point range has guitar rates, rain guns, fire in that direction, i was pressed against the wall. i could just see how those monsters were moving around and they were mis. so.