need of data and the document database of the funding is not there, love would be set up. the phone has been full or rising to say the least. has less many thinking. get to work a thot collins did you need speech? but what is a speech to begin with? vengeance sharma. ok. you, denny. that's a rap on the hour. but coming up, even though the last decade has seen economic crashes wars, and that's over 10 demik, it seems the year 2022 has proven to be equally, if not more size makes the discussion next on worlds apart. thanks for tuning in. we'll see about the top of the hour, the,

the, the, [000:00:00;00]

the, the welcome to was a part the last to digits have seen many world shaking your bands. there was 911 and the 2 war on terror done. there was the 2008 financial crisis, the arab spring out of course, the carpet 19th and dynamic court. the year of 2022 as my guest today suggests being just as if not more jo, politically, seismic we'll discuss it. i'm now joined by a bag grab executive dean of the trunk young institute for financial studies. dr. brown is good to see your again and thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us. thank you. thank you for your interview and that back. good to see you again . now i interviewed you about a year ago when the warranty ukraine was still in its early stages and the world was trying to make sense of it and adjust to a fast changing reality. and these have reasons things um that uh,

the global significance of 2022 has been grossly underestimated that in fact, it may be more consequential than some of the labs i mentioned in my introduction. what makes it so significant? any of you? well, when we have talked about the september 11th all the, to solve the, the spanish classes we or fall into the trap at all. and the american century would view what happened in the 2000 depending 2, as i sent this uh, breaking the international order of american century to visa most. and not only found that you can write this, but also a found that collect people a weakening of the nouns, the rest in what they are attempting to break away from the national system, dominated by the us to our i think that i think that the us is deal of the most powerful country in the world, but it has to be an immediate the debt. so what would the process of the regional

integration end of the americanization is the standard region creating the middle east central east, south africa asi, more africa. so i think that you can explain the important reason why you only 50 percent of the countries choose to follow the u. s. to 2nd washer. so from this perspective, i think that the global significance of 2092 is that this is likely to be the beginning of year, beginning year of to end up with a us key. gemini dropped him back and he mentioned a number of interesting points that i want to pursue. but before we do that, in one of your articles, you wrote that 2001 that you can only be compared to 1991 when the cold war and the this is rather per doc sickle because in 2022 a war began a war that still has no end inside and aware that the sats all the same old

a pair of adversaries roster versus the collective west. what makes 19912000 way to resonate a so much for you? well, i'll send you or lead in my article. i think the, the 19 and 91 is the beginning of the post a code of. ready ever and the truth on 22 is the end of it opposed to code avoid ever. so in a pastor of 30 years, a world a so centered to on that you have to state that has had the interest over yet these, these are often the prove of the focus of the world. for example, uh when you as was at packing 2000 so one, the water scene presides to reese and as opposed to the united states and the tools on the 8 the you have to use this stuff for financial crises and a would help that you had he states and then but, but, but now the, the error of the u. s. lead if you,

germany is coming to an ann technique that 2022. because a roger is opposing the usb germany in the radical way, while the other leaking. so i also a quietly seeking independent to the government trying to can read all the us, could you? so i think that's why i think that 2022 is not just the war, but also a cause that people extra, a gasket, global hegemony, and up the post. a code of what and what captain lies the by the us, the germany, s con to an act. i don't know if you would agree with me, but i think we are all partially guilty for sustaining that had gemini, because the re service, the american interest sometimes to the detriment of the our own national goals and inspirations. but uh, the years 1991 was of course the year of the sort of the gold in the year of

american dominance when it's reputation was riding high among many powers. and i wonder if you look back over the last 3 decades when the united states really have a historic chance of being a genuine leader of humanity rather than these few though, over lowered that the at least it seems to us right now. what do you think were some of the most significant missteps or miscalculations by the west and the leads that lead to the current loss of influence? yeah, yes, i agree with you. i. the rest of the leads are indeed a selfish and the sale for centers as they are blind to a constant, even the advocate they miss p could be that's what would have history ends on the model created by the west. so in fact, in many countries in the world, including china once believe in west the beaks and even though i believe that the

west was indeed the few jump in the world. but it probably knew this is where p p for them. that in the past that for 2 years to west to has not to go buy the real popular groups to, to walked in a position to continue to expand, showing the profit and realization of their own interest. the west, the has not brought peace prosperity and the comb and they develop them and that to the world on country the past the brought these off to was a kweisi is a pull the keys and so on. so as long as the west to res packed, some of the congress with the load would not be so bad. so therefore in past 30 years out of countries in the world has up gradually begun to wake up. as i sat a seat there already brought them to pass. now um, chinese are famous for taking a longer view of history and knowing, enduring and beyond the last couple of years. and i think most economists agree,

the center of economic development do tend to shift from one place to the next, then never stagnant the, despite the whatever francis fukuyama may have wished for, you know, and that has been a historic reality over several centuries. now this shift towards asia, the shift of power, the shift of economic development was really a par and for many years, why do you think that americans are trying to find that process instead of, you know, trying to salvage whatever power and privilege they, they, they may yeah, i, i, the, i have uh, communicated with professor upfront, just real quick. i'm, as you mentioned the many times in the, in the past, the 10 years east that took keys, views are also changing. it has a rule uh, this illusion. december i consistently usually done yes, you've created some of american politics, right battery by that. and he believe without the united states that he's no longer

role model for what he's this is god i, we see, in my opinion, the american political lead to our shock sided to advocate. they don't pay attention to lemmings long history and they don't pay attention to them. so how does they always seem to that they are the stand at all for advocacy? so you fact as a, you mentioned that a history. what i want to say that, you know, past the, nearly a 5 a 1000 a years, all history in china, there have been more than 10 people then as a piece and a more than 400 and pious city, and the lessons, all the goals that benefit the changes can be found in the united states now, such as internal collapse, you need to know expansion, lease and things economical, weakness and a people's property. but at present, it seems that the united states would still be that important to even you future to us as an empire,

as has to be tied. and it has no power to say if it's fate that we will evacuate and it see germany. now i want to shift gears a little bit and ask you about the presence of china who recently visit as most cuz you know, and when he was parting ways for his why them important. he was a fail telling him that our 2 countries are now driving the changes of the likes of which the world hasn't seen in 110 years and his russian counterparts about him. if we didn't seem to agree with ad sending analyst on a guessing game, what the 2 liters, ma'am, what's your take on that? the so called the great change years i'm seeing the century is adjustment to on the future of the world. i 1st of proposed by the process, you can see in 2017. i also know the best i said in a book in chinese, a 100 a year solve change and, and a lot also cause a lot of, uh, scholars have to be,

you know, a pre between the, to the wrong, the truth on this searching china, we'll become to one of the largest economy and the ending, the standards of the us as a logic. so economy for more than $100.00. yes. and more importantly, the what would the dominates in a bi, drafted is becoming more multi porter. and the north atlantic is no longer defend to the world. the dominance or the west has come to an end end of the now western world is rising collectively. so i think the found the economics to politics found the technology to culture of value. many if you know mean is happening in the world that have never happened in the past. the 100. yes. so i try, i think, to try to get people why we think about the 100 years of change. because of we are actually in color, we can always sales to adopt at the changes promoting no,

no vision and amazing contribution. so i think this is a, well, we want to do a batter. now your role before the these, the d westernization of global politics will be accompanied by the the, the low rise ation of level trades and the, the americanization of technology battery. it can see it already happening. the share of the year is the solar and international reserve assets is now at the lowest points since world war 2. it's technological address being rivaled by many countries, including china. and i wanna use this opportunity to ask you as a, as a permanent china as caller what are some of the ways that the chinese one don't want to emulate americans. and as you expand the use of the u on and global trade, as you sharpen your, uh, no logical capacities. what are the things that are to be, you know, emulated and i appreciate it. and what are some of the things that need to go away

from international politics in the, in the future we, we really, uh, in the west and as ations, the ad. and it's, and thoughtful that's trying to, uh, try our best to, to do my, to come to be with the what and also you know, future, we try our best to, to promote to the financial department as well as the what would a piece. so now we do uh, standing up very uncertainty conditions. so uh for that to i think a full time meets a week. we can do a batch that to my, our, to our sales a best. and then i sold the domestic uh properties inside that uh as soon as possible and to show our gratitude to contribute to what as well, if he can treat the other is the way you want to be treated in that i thing that's called the golden rule. in pretty much at every religion that's, that's really the way to peace, but for now it's up to right and we need to paint the way to

a little break. we will be back in just a few moments state you in the back towards the porch with bank defense, executive dean, all the tongue young institute for financial studies. doctor rang, you have a reason before the china is not alone pursuing uh its own path uh to development in fact is joined by most known of western countries. and you mentioned latin america in particular, when more and more countries are opting for, left leaning governments. but it's

a very different laughed from the one represented by the democrats in the united states. what's the, the main difference was the main distinction between this new left ascending all over the world in latin america, in africa, in china. i would argue in russia as well, i'm the old laptops in power in washington. i think the last year when i a load, an ice coat about the west and i think it's really a low step way to even ask, you know, because it's, and also i think that to nowadays. so it's already a consensus that toward a jenny to 10 left and the to the left, which put more emphasis on the national poa and a emphasizing sucks pennies logged in freedom. but however, i found a graduate that's a new laptop lacking america in the south africa. so you mentioned and, and the overlap to in the power in the united states, aust,

fundamentally to type of people. although they or, and besides the rise of a national power to deal after light and allow the americans and songs africa and emphasize at least back in the office, doing a good job for the bytes and sale 1st. and then the inferencing to watch and overlap to empower in the united states of been to size the about the changing walter's books to edit using change the world to solve their own. i don't have to comment. so i think this is a main liza and i can logical out volunteer why i got these. these are all from the got a china and washer as a skeptical scheduled for the automatic apartments. and what i find very interesting is that china is also framing that in terms of human rights. but instead of emphasizing the supremacy of the individual has been individual wealth and capital, the,

the emphasis is food on people's ride to basic needs. and i ride to development the right to happiness if you will, but there is a somewhat different balance between the, the rice and the needs of the individual and the collective given that income gaps, poverty levels in western countries are also on the increase. do you think these kind of find framing of human rights or these kind of approach to development um could inspire anyone in the west? yeah, it's a so i think that the, the logic of, uh, a free competition and the supremacy off of wells in the capital was somewhat to go grassy for 20 or 30 years ago. but now people see that to the larger off uh now for you competition and so pre mercy. also we also had the categories using more and more uh, social uh, e books and china has a new from the feeding on the west end social competence. that's why up,

over the past 10 years, the china has a cheap way to successfully promote in the social policy against the over the pollution conduction and crises and a china point of view, a balance between the social security and economic goose, the ice birth economic grooves and the social security, and it's not only protected a warehouse, an interest off the mito after causes, but also and shoot that to us the bible, the beetle in lieu of coffee, if necessary for the west to lead on the stand to china and then the event china, social governance experience. now china is uh, showing some new approaches not only in economy or governance, but also thinking in, in the world of diplomacy is become far more proactive on the international stage. is not only brought the saudis and the iranians to the negotiating table, but actually facilitated

a fully fledged diplomatic reconciliation between this 2 former anatomy is something that no one serious and no one thought was possible. what's uh, what's the china secret here? because um, i mean, everywhere, all analysts, i know, even here in russia were absolutely shocked by the news when they got it. as a china, as we all know, the china, it's a promot whole piece and the computer to the documents in the past of 40 years to and it is only the country that has not licensed all participated in the world. at the same time. china is also enjoying the defeated salt water peaks and the china is different from the american, the few spaces in joining the, the, the that. and so what, you know, what the mo looks and the conflicts break out into what the more, the american we, oh, bad feet or china, china prefer a water piece. so i believe that to the world has seen china is

a pretty peaceful image. i saw the out of ad that you learn. you mentioned also a pretty easy, you know, china peaceful, cmt a china does nothing to promote the so called an offshore palace, estrada each now on your phone to know how stream pipeline, non, we'll eat, engaging strategy to also as a congress, an agent on the country china host to promote the regional the call and see the issue and that you can onto the construction piece of why china is working hard to promote to that. because the age of getting us all the out of and the long and of the construction on rebecca afghanistan. so in fact, we also corporate engine washer and a ukraine. we want to reconcile these negotiations between the rain in sound. the sound is facilitated by china were kept in secret, no leaks, no speculations, which is very unusual and is the nature of the so called megaphone diplomacy when sensitive details linked to media for immediate impact, which i fear with a river, the me makes diplomacy not only in the factor,

but pretty much impossible. i wonder if this discretion is specifically a china is feature of given the sort of they demonstrate the success of such a pros, dressing. it can come back into fashion in the end. a world of diplomacy, again, a uh, extra ice thing uh, many times a we need a test cabinet to national cabinets as well as that diplomacy. the popular has to be supposed to be and it has a live per lynmore onto the company that's on the other hand, depot matthew contrast panels is not good at this, and the valuable is fascinating. the face of major compact compacts of foreign policy, the patients. so i think it isn't necessary for the country to keep a certain count of a secrecy, so as not to be in france, advisor unnecessarily. not professional, probably copy. so i'm not sure whether the so called

a close dollar diplomacy has become the popular mass of the old fashion. it depends on the actual effect. i think the close don't approach it to a bad to cause is uh, the least possible approach to create a policy policy. now. uh, the most fascinating aspect of this whole development for me is this is the position of saudi arabia, which normally still an american ally. and yet it's far more engaged both economically and politically, with china, into some extensive in russia, then that in washington, what do you think made it possible for re, uh to pursue that own task this little, if any consideration for whatever washington has to say. uh if uh, if i was told you, i would see you that sorted out of the house being the see the by the us for so many years. so the out of this, you're enjoying the peace,

40 environment in middle east and continue to develop. but the us has use of show balancing method for more than half a century to create charles and that is all to the middle east, which in turn, a make middle eastern country depend on that. he states believes that jesus and important protect these from awful grafton goodies and diplomacy for not all sorted out. but if we can knock those, he says a good 6 e mail appealing to you as a sure to respect as those regional countries. and not only, not just to treat them as a tools or even jump to a beautiful beautiful, that's such a net t. i need a way when it not in use any use h to wipe your mouth when a tissue. well, it's a very conspicuous matter for, as i think it's not yet inspiring for our labors in ukraine who remain in

a very close relationship with the united states. to the extent that the, that own country has been sacrifice for the sake of the fighting russia. now, as i'm sure, you know, many people in russia were inspired by china appointing its own algoy for the conflict in your brain. perhaps trying to build on its own diplomatic success on the middle east in front. but i wonder how this appointment was received in key if does china have enough weight enough influence enough credibility with the ukranian with the current ukrainian authority to produce any change uh on that front. uh i think that the uh to my altima honest the, uh uh like how say that the washer is all what buried you sent about. but also your queen is uh,

trying to assess direct deposit to the uh, in the, in a long time we have a back go to the chip and the cooperation we for last year as well as so we uh, reset your creek. so that's why i think that the china trial are past due to uh, to a weight the, because the ation between russia and the, and the uh for, for you queen, i think, uh china, we're not home the queen and left it along the sea. or you can kind of see you going to check the balance of washer and the and be happy to. so china won't you agree economy to do cover. and china is also leading to the best you create and participate in the construction of your queen's chart structure. so i really hope that you'll create a rush or a 10 minute install piece under the 2 steps. the desk. uh so i think we, uh,

most of the time these people, we are glass, you agree? but also perhaps last year. now last year you described ukraine as, uh, having the body of a strong man and the feeder was serve and girl. and i think perhaps that was too up to mistake because ukraine at this point of time uh is in the far drimmers situation. the country is how destroyed a quarter of the population left. uh, the country um, the infrastructure is ruined. and uh, the big question is, who is going to um, rebuild your credit will help it rebuild? because obviously it does not have enough resources. or do you think this is something that china could use as, let's say, not as it's in taishan, but it's something that could really attract the ukrainian leadership because the americans and the, the, the europe hands may talk about their supports for ukraine. but it's still pretty

unclear whether they want to fund the rebuilding of the country. what's, what's your view on that front? yeah, i, i always, uh, i think that the comments as the situation you create is a historical tragedy. you cleanings along all the country. we've allowed just the land, every unit, and the you crease population, then some on the top 5 in europe. and then you should have be a big country in your back, but it's very picky for your queen. that's you increase the strap each in a past the 30 years has not shipped the independent a, spend the all 5 regional power on the country. you ukraine has always been waiting to be vessel off of you and the united states in the past 30 years. so your queen has a tend to, to, to west and most of the time. but it has not brought to you. you cannot be

a cruise and a national spencer on a country your queen has become to pull her used to country you. so that's why i sincerely hope that your queen can least track only itself, grew up from the less and more the history of the con, the reach between eastern and western secret ivy. instead of being attached to a certain, i mean, you treat group and to be coming the pool full balancing all the effects dr. right has been great. pleasure talking to you. thank you very much for that. thank you. thank you so much and thank you for watching hope to see her again and was

a part of the of the the charters democracy is providing to be amazingly resilient. but chucky does not fulfill the basic principles of a democratic election official as well as by the presidential balls the neck in next year of cats and dogs over the freedom of turkey as the elections assume in the west, immediately good ones, possible victory. the defeats of democracy, tons of good results, and it sends a blind item to the war crimes record as far as the proxy fights is in violation of us law for proteins in newly released documents. also the solid