[000:00:00;00] the time option redundancy and welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world from dubai in the united that remember it's this week for you and revealed up to 50 percent more. joining us and media workers were killed in 2022 compared to previous years. that's a dead journalist every 4 days with accusations of missed reporting, fake news, and we will propaganda by the modern day, so called mainstream media. is it any wonder that last year was the deadliest? no one in the youngest on world has had such a profound effect with our understanding of the nato, a nation propaganda model of journalism. then one of the most cited living scholars in the world? no, i'm chomsky in the past 24 hours is cool, so you can us authorities to release which he likes found to julian assange tortured according to the un by the birth issued in london. the father of all the

linguist sticks and co author of manufacturing consents joints, you know, from tucson, arizona. thank you so much for visit drugs. keep coming back on going underground router a quite a quite a long time. and they won't even allow julia to sondors being on this show, be able to watch our interviews with them on rumble to the funeral of his friend, vivian, westwood. the famous fashion designed why given reports of his deteriorating health . uh, are they so intense the british and the americans on keeping him incarcerated us? julia's message committee degree is crime. he exposed crimes of state which state power wants to be suppressed, that cannot be tolerated to attack on the power and dignity of the state authorities. so as you've been treated very poorly for

years, he was actually locked into what's called an embassy, but it's actually a small apartment not allowed to do a tour around it, but police then he was put in a prison that designated for serious defenders. there's treated again extremely horse treatment. the u. n. reports are unter plausibly in my view. it describes it as a torture, rubber door and torture. and then that's a night after designation. he's being charged in the united states, a lindsey espionage act. so that's a goes back to 1917 quarter of the harshest repression

in american history, the wilson administration, the bitter attacks on anyone who questioned the nobility of the participation in the 1st world war. a major attacks on labor additions on intellectual opinion to support of the oppression should and enormous impact on american society, listed until the present latency is true. it's been used for essentially the purpose for over and over the most extreme was actually a rock obama. ringback the current case is saying, just being charged on to the espionage, it could not be on the books in any democratic society. but to the main crime is his exposure of materials that the

state once suppressed. you've been attacked uh most of your life by a so called mainstream media, but do you think it's getting worse now? you might have to remind some people about what you and add them and said in manufacturing consent to differentiate propaganda from the he says, do you, what are you talking about? no one tells me what to say, and you will, you might remember what you said to have back. do you have to change the propaganda model with julian assigned in jail with the banning of the literature, music sports press in the, in the native nation landscape. whereas before, it was done in a slightly more well as you describe the most structured and more complex way, i think actually in many ways better know that it was before. uh,

one reason is that many journalists have simply live through the liberator. in effect of the activism of the 19 sixty's which share many barriers this after math, which continues, this is part of their formation, tends to make them more free and open. you look back to the say, 196. these are the ideas, questioning authority, barely a rouge a take the vietnam, or the worst crime since the 2nd world war 2 years to try to organize in a position to it. i happened to live in boston, which is the most liberal city in the country. we couldn't have totally demonstrations against the war because they would be violently broken up. a tried

to have meetings in churches of churches where it was years before you could finally get some kind of protest against this or in this atrocity which by the time protest, right, really develop to almost destroyed 3 countries. but to that, there's been a change shown in the war currently raging in europe of the, you know, you look at bernie sanders advise them at the us diplomatic summit settlement would mean ukraine surrender every single person in the bite. and the d. n. c, the democrats voted to supply weapons to ukraine. the senate approved the resolution to support finan in sweden, in nato. i own the rammed pool, and joining holly to g o. p. 's and it just voted against a you have a the entire i mean all 6 of the so called score,

the democrats all intent and they're all no demonstrations. just up to the prophets of raphael in general dynamics. boeing, lockheed martin, and also gum. another difference between for so we should discuss the suppose isn't there just to cation, but what's different today from the 19 say 50 years ago is there is debate and discussion if it's over well mainly on the side of state power and official doctrine that it exist you go back to the 19th sixty's, i barely even exist. there was no up in the case of the vietnam or for example, that was essentially no up position to if for a long time, finally broke out. and we should be,

we should recognize that the civilizing effect of the active is it mostly young people in those years. and since has had an impact, there is no ranges to be discussion of people like me, of course, can't get into the mainstream media, but we never could. that was impossible. and though at least there's alternative ways for voices as well. actually, or, well actually you your name as being mentioned in main stream media and it's being famed and i don't know whether you want to take legal action. you're a trenchant critic of allowed to have puts in. and yet, if i look on the internet, the big publications calling you a put in an apologist when you've spent the every week since february, the 24th. and we moved to as the russian c. it protect the people who've done best use of and criticizing for that. do we have food?

why did they call you a put in the voltage is because a, if you deviate from official doctrine, you're condemned. is a apologist for the n m. a is the state you talked in the 1960 is about is a trying to bring lives around this war in vietnam. do it in your cold and apologised for her g mail. okay, that says standard technique or vilification. you don't want to answer arguments, you throw motor people that's normally expected. but to today, if you look at the main stream establishment, gerald ford affairs, the nature journal, you actually find a range of critical commentary. actually not all the different from things i say

will go back years. you didn't have to just marching in a period furshly notice it. but of course in say, britain, they banned c g t and the chinese channel from broad costing r t. a famously, why is it that the, do you think russia thinks it's fine? i think it's like a level of this week giving a press conference allowing west and reporters accreditation. whereas in the united states, they obviously don't ban media in the us because of the 1st amendment. certainly in europe, obviously there's mass binding of journalists and journalism. what's behind that? and that truly does depart from what from manufacturing consent, where they didn't want to ban anything. they just knew that the low of selling outlets would fail to engage the populace in, in decisions opinion. is it,

1st of all, let's go to uh, you look through the see the take a more recent event, the erac or not that far back. anyone who dares to say that the record was the major crime of the century, which it certainly was, is bitterly denounced and condemned. if you look at the discussion in the main stream, you'll be hard put to find anyone who disagrees, couldn't reach the main street and who will say the elementary truth in this industry suitable truth that the rank was an example of what the nuremberg tribunal called the supreme international crime, a crime in the direction which differs from other war crimes only in the

it includes all was the evil that follows. so find somebody who says, prison bush rumsfeld, dick cheney were guilty of the crimes for which people write that number and said, what you have is celebration of george bush. the great criminal who is a to do rec, enough scanners to destroy the celebration of him as a lovely person to school, the goofy graham placement and his grandchildren paints pictures just a delightful person. well, that's the radical it's for, it's quite striking that anyone who dares to compare your rank or was the russian ization of ukraine is viciously denounced. harvard university even had

a debate in which the debate was whether the rank or can be considered a humanitarian intervention. a debate, suppose in moscow university, had a debate, whether the russian invasion can be called a humanitarian intervention. can you imagine the reaction in the west, the, what's the reaction in the west stood up in it or the close look at the open as an american society. they're even willing to question whether this military intervention was a humanitarian intervention. uh well, that's manufacturer of consent. let me give any explicit example. recently, there were couple articles in the mainstream press saying there's no, some skepticism arising about whizzer rush. it was really responsible for the sabotage of the north stream. pray play,

pledge prizes the drum scouts. stop you the more from one of the world's greatest and most sides in public intellectuals after this break. the lease of the russian states. never as tired as i'm wondering, the most sense community best, most all sense and up the in the 6595 and speed. what else holes? question about this? even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin, the machine, the state on the rushes to day and split the ortiz food, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the payment services. for what question did you say from stephen twist,

which is the welcome back to going underground? still here i went, professor, know i'm trying to escape american dissidents and co author of the pioneering book, manufacturing consent, the political economy of the mass media. maybe they call you a page and a biologist because you expressed doubts about a terror attack. that was one of the worst. as if climate destroying gera tax given the amount of fossil fuels released. that's alone. this is what the sabotage means for energy resources for germany. you think that the mainstream media that said this must be the russians,

could have got it wrong. it means the least likely. the, the, the per a for state responsible for the services is rosure. it's, it's a pipeline number, some of those and destroyed is largely owned by does grow russian company. what possible purpose would rush. it is in destroying its in sabotaging its own major capital investment, which it counts on for supplying your if pressure one of the support the stuff the supply of grass is all it could do is turn off of valve, didn't have to destroy it. to mean it's made the investment, so the least likely state of it can be a charge is russian. so of course, the western media immediately rushed on race to say, will russia's responsible know they're raising some skepticism. that's called

manufacturer of consent set to framework and debate within it. but it's the framework version saying who's the likely culprit in the north stream service, those who had the motive and the capability? well, just one state, united states obviously had the motive, in fact, was quite frank and open about saying that those will put not only opposing the pipelines but saying that they'll be destroyed. the motive was not secret. that's perfectly public. obviously has the capability to interest of large naval movers in the region of right before the show that the major ship position equipment. so it took a bit literally in the mode is clearly nobody else said anything like that.

the russians in the least likely cobra. so manufacturing consensus, let's have a lively debate to show the opening for your but within the framework that excludes assumption. but the possibility that the united states might have been involved with literally discuss debate, whether it's the least likely cobra is involved. well, that's effective propaganda. your own g as in boy, that's refutable. what do you do is set up the framework of discussion, which excludes totally excludes the of this most likely answer. the debate or other things. during the case of the rec, you have a debate that harvard over whether the rack invasion was a humanitarian invasion. you don't have a debate over whether it was the a crime to kind of crime for which not so your current levels right now. remember, you don't want to open the question for

a discussion to discuss something ridiculous. wasn't the humanitarian intervention . when you carry out a shock and awe attack against the rug semester of the country, kill hundreds of thousands of people, of all kinds of torture. those are trusted in each. if i just what is the worst crimes in the iraq war? was the battle it flew, drew, especially the 2nd battle this illusion. devastating destructive immersion tag by the marine. you should be gun was taking over the general hospital toward crime in itself. then destroying much of the city doing. no, you know, shall many people go so, you know, to investigate or on crimes. how is that? remember the united states? well, i'll tell you, the u. s. navy is low commissioning

a new vessel in honor of the marines who forwarded and flew to school. the furniture, and that's the way we deal with. one of the worst crimes doesn't get reported. of course, i should say the bible administration eventually denies involvement in the terror attacks on the north stream, as does the british administration of allegations the royal navy was involved in it . i mentioned that you were a critic of the page and given that angela michael says that the mintz process was actually a delaying tactic to ukraine. what would you have done differently, knowing that the politically, within russia, vladimir putin was under pressure, given the thousands of people of the done bass being killed with nato, a weapons in, in eastern new grain. given that the means process was when dawn for a number of years,

it was adopted by the security council. what do you suppose to do after being told repeatedly that the, the americans was going to grow into your grand ukraine, wasn't going to join nato and actually it was and that obviously we have the, the details of the co you and if you would, one further negotiations you would have called for intermediaries with the french. you. this includes the story on the american will now says that it was a delay for the original part of the evidence in the river. this report to claim the nothing. at the time, germany in france took it very seriously, were pressing for a modem of cream, actually up and to couple of days before the invasion had alone interchange with couldn't you can read the transcript published in the french,

chris offering various ways to reinstate something like the minsk agreement then prevent the invasion of purging, rejected it at the end. the last conversation 4 days before the invasion. he simply rejected the discussions and with contempt to i'm sorry, i have to go ice skating or something like that. well, there were opportunities. there was plenty of for a vacation, you're quite right. lots of publication, publication doesn't justify aggression. aggression is a major crime. if you're, if you provoke me to attack you and then i have to ask you, i'm guilty. even if i was approved. and for the people, the defend persians decision as a, a mock of a new world order to avenge iraq. just one of the was in the reason is

that your government as being involved in has the global south come together. new currency is being talked about, new ways of talking about energy, perhaps even helping the climb. it's better than any comp, somebody's under the aegis of the united states. you don't buy that. you can believe in a global south with the china or india lula. your friend and i'm brazil in russia altogether and the depth depth of your up in effect. you know, i think 0 in major sisters world or in the invasion of ukraine is the reaction to it is accelerated. this one effect of the invasion of ukraine was the, gives the united states extraordinary gift putting gas in the united

states and gifted it greatly real issues. it drove europe into the pocket of the united states. there's been a debate. so through the cold war, back to the 1940s as to whether you or should move in an independent direction, be what was sometimes called the 3rd 3rd force in international affairs was pressed most vigorously, but chose to go. deliberate are supposed to take gestures of calm and others, united states and stood and demanded would scroll the latest version based on negro which the united states rose, of course, in which europe would be subordinate to the united states. this became a major issue with the collections of the union. is the garbage of proposed

to common european home from lisbon to start the military alliances. the victors defeated common efforts to move forward towards a more or less social democratic erasure. united states was strongly opposed. just that on the atlanta she should have put in it is inside of the united states. its host wish provided in europe at least temporarily, is within, has abandoned search for independence. finish joining, the subordinating itself to the states to it's the same to which some would say they were already base is a gram stain in britain across gary over the united states for so. so long. we're running a little bit you 100 time professor jones k. i want to get to something really

disturbing in what you've been writing recently. i thought you said and coming from this pioneer of generative grammar, i'm saying that's like loosely connected. you said that humanity kind of have a dedication to self destruction. what i mean, given that megan mako level people now claim says she, she reads your work and i know you send a message to through the va ways as it was saying that you would please to prince harry's wife. read your what. what do you mean by a pathological, perhaps dedication to self destruction given? we are talking obviously about them at things that involve them again. and then i know the bulletin, if that's all mac scientists will be resetting the the clock next tuesday about how close, how long we have to live. it is a be said the doomsday clock in 1947,

shortly after the bombing, the hands are set a certain distance from midnight. midnight binge termination mostly human species. the 1st sitting was 7 minutes to midnight. it's us later over the years, the, during the trump administration, they abandon minutes move to seconds. so center, 100 shavings to midnight, january 24th, it will be said again, i presume the 2nd it will be said closer to midnight circle. it should be the main concerns or increasing threat of nuclear war. the very severe and growing threats of the destruction of the climate which is rapidly increasing. states are not doing what

they know they must do to solve the score issues. the 3rd is the deterioration of the arena of rational, serious debate and delivery issue with the collapse of democratic forces around the world. sounds at 1st is that doesn't belong with the 1st 2, but it does because that's only hope for dealing with the 1st 2 or 3 has gotten considerably worse during the past year. and unless there's a short reversal, we'll simply be heading for a pressure push, pulling over a reversible another long distant future. present non chomsky. thank you. and that's it for the show. we'll be back next week with another brand new episode, but until then you can still keep in touch with all social media or if it's not sensitive in your country, but you can always head to a tunnel going, undergoing tv on rumble dot com to watch new and old episodes, going underground. so you guys have

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[000:00:00;00] the, a gallon sauce setting to work. and then i saw sleep on a on you just don't go on ghosts. i didn't or grenay log on to ask them, shut it off with cable set up. i still do lock cuz there's so many times to evaluate them or are they able to assume that i see you seeing the stimulus sizes and that's really the what was just doings. and that will put that training of got story, but what she thought is insidious. see, so just in that really for