weather in this area this evening, so one of the things that officials talked about is trying to get work done because you do not want all this debris around as much as possible. when more severe weather comes through, that means more wind gusts. if you have nails or glass or wood or metal all over the place, that is an at of risk as well, alex. >> it is pretty darn frightening. can you give me, really quickly how much of minden has been destroyed? what percentage? >> we have been hearing different estimates. i would say it is dozens of buildings. that is the best way to characterize it. it is still early going. the figures have been changing. there is also the broader area besides minden. there have been dozen -- dozens of structures. this is a small community. the number is in the hundreds. we are not talking about

thousands upon thousands. of course, anyone displaced is very sad news. >> thank you so much, jesse. that will do it for me of this edition. i will see you tomorrow on "the beat weekend." welcome to our special new york versus donald . we are going to get into this criminal trial. defendant robert reeling from the first week of testimony in new york. we are covering that on tonight for special over the course of this hour. we have been reporting on the testimony of experts from bob to the sordid world of new york tabloids. we also have a beat special report on a new indictment against a lawyer, boris epshteyn, who first admitted his role in the now indicted electric plot on the beat. this week, we have a remarkable

contrast from d.c. to new york. you might've noticed the -friendly supreme court slowed the prosecution of jack smith and asked a bunch of -friendly questions about all the potential problems with prosecuting a president. if you would send to the oral argument or coverage coming might have noticed it sounded like that kind of trial was a futile project. well, right up the east coast, an actual trial of an actual former president was going forward. the republic did not crumble it is a contrast that hangs over all of this in america and what we are going to get into tonight this very first week of the new york trial. it seems to undercut the suppose it concern of the tribe appointed justices, where someday, somehow, that it is a bad thing. they are already happening. the first week of this trial shows not only is it possible, but also gave us the first real evidence backed in court

finding version of the da's story. we put together a brisk ride of what we are learning. >> the prosecution in president donald 's hush money trial drew the sharp outlines of its case against the former president. >> the prosecution laid out a dispassionate, straightforward, very limited, very blunt -- >> reporter: prosecutors telling the jury of seven men and five women it was election fraud, pure and simple. >> the defense gets right up and the defense says, the story you just heard is not true. >> you hear the prosecution layout a clear roadmap. >> you had a reference to the tape recording. that is a terrible tape for president donald . >> the defense was like a circus leader. >> he is buying himself time. >> reporter: david , giving bombshell testimony. >> he said we committed a campaign violation.

cohen's response? he was not worried because it jeff sessions is the attorney general and donald has him in his back pocket. >> david pecker acknowledged he did this catch and kill with karen mcdougal for the benefit of the truck campaign. >> they spent hours trying to trip them up, catch them in contributions. >> he grabs and president donald 's former executive assistant described as a gatekeeper, his right hand, and lawyers are being paid for by president donald . >> you heard that word gatekeeper. he has gatekeepers and allies and friends that are talking under oath and the da is getting details out of them to bolster the opening argument. where the jury was told cases about a criminal conspiracy and a cover-up. david pecker has been admitting that. he recounts his dealing with the star witness michael cohen to buy in and bury stories, in order to protect president

donald 's campaign. they allege an agreement to then hide financial footprints. they told the jury this will also be corroborated with evidence in , the defendant's own words, showing an illegal conspiracy. he said there is not an actual conspiracy charge in this case. that is true. the word conspiracy has a legal meaning and a more colloquial meaning if you have ever watched a mafia movie. they are saying they conspired together. they also attack the whole conspiracy theory, that he attacked through unlawful means. it would be needed to supersize this misdemeanor of financial fraud into a felony case. the trough defense has kind of said, well, maybe the da is being alarmist about what amounts to, however dirty, politics as usual. that is how they argue it. some proclaim there is nothing wrong with trying to influence

and to collection. it is called democracy. the da has put up three witnesses with the testimony this week. the national enquirer chiefly mentioned, david , was clearly the hottest, unloading details, dishing the original, sordid meeting that formed this inquirer alliance, which involved a heavy dose of defamation against ted cruz and his family. details about how the inquiry or acted as an arm of the campaign, meaning that it -- they were phoned in by: himself karen mcdougal and stormy daniels, they got money from different places but it all went back according to the delay to the original campaign motivation.told on and for how he tried to hide their contacts back in the day by using some secret messaging app.

it did not work him obviously. the da also showed how they knew it was wrong, that got nervous when election regulators started to probe and cohen saidhad him over the department of justice . they say that as to the evidence that team knew they had criminal exposure from this and their thinking was not, we did not do a crime. her thinking was, oh, our appointees will protect us. we have them in our pocket. i do not know if jeff sessions would fit in there, but it is an analogy. but they did not shield michael cohen. he was convicted and imprisoned by the very independent prosecutors who are federal prosecutors during the -era. over the week, the prosecution turned into rhona graff, who appears to be a better turns -- terms on him. the defendant and his company are still paying for her lawyers. you take this all together and what you see is a lot more evidence against than reasonable doubt on his behalf.

that does not mean he is losing this case. we are in the da's side. the burden is on them. for a first week, this was not exactly a slow rise or a lot of accounting spreadsheets. this was a two by fours one repeatedly at president donald as a defendant and while some of that came from those prosecutors tough talk in the opening, tonight, we have to remember a lot of that tough talk and incriminating information came from his buddy, tabloid chief david , who said by the end of his testimony, is not personal and he still counts president donald as a friend, but he is telling the truth under oath about their campaign crimes. how bad is it? we have a couple special guest at the table. we will be back in 90 seconds. . ? can i finish? buy one wrap get one 50% off in the subway app today. my frequent heartburn had me

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we are joined by former u.s. attorney george and jason johnson, both analysts for us. i went through what we got from this opening week. i think it is fair to say if you're on the jury, it feels like the da is up. they are in the lead. it does not mean we know the outcome. what do you think they achieved in this first week and what do they have to worry about?

>> a great question. if you are the prosecution and you are not up after your force with this, you're in big trouble. but the prosecution really did start off with an unexpected bang. no one knew what to expect out of david . we learned he had been cooperating with prosecutors and he brought straight into the essential conspiracy, the election fraud conspiracy, which is necessary to turn the misdemeanor that is charged into a felony. important testimony. he stood up pretty well on testimony come up on cross- examination. they did not seem to come after him with a lot. they tried to pick away at his credibility. they question some of the key pieces of evidence, but he was thoroughly rehabilitated on redirect examination. prosecution has to be feeling good. >> jason, i do not want to be unkind to the defendant and he is legally presumed innocent, but his family is not there. the jury can notice that. these are his friends and allies. some of them have gone so far

that they are like, michael cohen, who was so angry it might affect his credibility. mr. says, yeah, we are friendly. the guy is a liar, but we are friendly. he may have committed campaign crimes, and that is what i thought we did, but we are friendly. he has a whole backstory up, shall we say, really complicated allegations, but we are friendly. if these are the views of his friends, how does that hurt him in not only the journey -- jury, but the court of public opinion. >> that is why this is such a bad week. we can go through the legalese and jargon, but the average person is picking out every fifth word. they are picking up things like adult film star, pay off, family is not there, and falling asleep during the trial. the outside world is like, okay, this does not look good. we are not seeing anything that gives us the opportunity to think, my gosh, is alert and paying attention to this. it is the old song, how many of

us have them? if you heard somebody say, this room was full with people who are supporting president donald and they leave the room every day and melania is there and everything else, it gives the outside public impression, these people believe in him, right? even if he is guilty, his family is still with them. the fact he does not have people that are down with him, that is what the public is picking up and the jury also sees that. >> what i am going to do, joyce, i will let you -- this is a classic. i will let you marinate. i will tell you at the end. >> in cd, they call that a deep tease. we say, joyce is coming back. that is a tease. for the public, we show this earlier. front pages in states red and blue around the world, they do

not have a vote, but it is ricocheting. what do you think about the fact it takes a level x, a richter scale to say, oh, my god, it is a big deal and this is happening, to remind people what it is like if president donald is in the center, whether he is in -- does that hurt him, just the feeling of what this is like? >> it adds up already. after a while, people started thinking, what -- why is he not in court? he is in court for documents and an affair. will he be gone until november? everyone thinks he will be on trial the whole time and that is why people are worried. here is the other thing. i do not carry too much weight on anything this early. but i can say is this. the number of americans who have said that if president donald is convicted of anything, that it will affect their vote, has stated steady at 23% to 25%. there is a risk. this is not there was situation -- not a situation that if he

is convicted at something like this -- they will say, you know, i do not think i can do it. that is a real consequence of this trial. >> i appreciate the precision of your mind and i appreciate you dropped a second reference. i am reminded of -- we are all up in the danger zone at the judge hit with a hammer and my brother ain't coming home. will you unveil your earlier reference? >> no, i'm going to wait. i want this to be teased and i will have you know that when you come back. she is going to integrate it when she comes back. >> people ask, wait, what is planned or scripted? i did not know you're going to say it we will all be in suspense. >> joyce, i did want to include you in the legal breakdown because these arizona charges are not only a big deal but they involve one of 's new york defense advisers . joyce will

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welcome to our specialon trial. this is the first time ever americans have watched a former presidents be put on trial. was at the defendant's table with the boris epshteyn, a veteran of the white house and campaign, who has become central to president donald 's activities since 2020. he was in court with the president donald as you see here come along with the lead defense counsel , just as he was at the defense table at that first new work arraignment. he has been quarterbacking for and has led many different efforts throughout 2020 , attacking those election results that showed lost. we have been reporting on those efforts for years , including contrary to not just january

6th violence, but a host of other plots over those -- we have pressed epstein on his role in those efforts, as well as his legal views, which are relevant as he is involved in all this. here we are in this extremely busy week as he is there. you can see him working on his phone with the lead counsel, trying to help stay out of a new york prison. however, what we can tell you is -- with all this news you may have missed, epshteyn joined the ranks of criminal lawyers indicting him for a lector -- election fraud. >> boris epshteyn has a prominent role in this 2024 campaign. >> rudy giuliani, boris

epshteyn, mark meadows, suddenly back in the news. >> this is the first time he has been indicted, but also a former aid and one of his closest top advisers to this day. >> for epshteyn, this is a big deal and he is legally presumed innocent. it is also a big deal and a live issue in this new york case . defendant using boris as a lawyer there and reporting on all these issues, we have interviewed epshteyn repeatedly, including in those early subpoenas. >> when you say you will provide evidence, does that mean your intent is to cooperate? >> i'm happy to provide evidence of the overwhelming fraud that happened in the 2020 elections. >> was your plan to try to force a vote in the house, to reverse the election outcome? >> i had no idea there would be any violence whatsoever. there was absolutely a plan and a process for there to be challenges to the election.

>> is that a yes? >> there is a process to challenge electoral votes. there is a process. >> and you're on record and -- >> we pressed on those issues and questions. epshteyn is indicted along with giuliani, meadows, ellis, eastman, and others who had to defend whether or not they became criminals, plus on the unindicted co-conspirators list in that same arizona case charging epshteyn. the new york times also says he could be an unnamed co- conspirator in the jack smith case, the sixth spot that has never been fully identified with the new york times said that we are not confirming that. but we can confirm that epshteyn participated in the our lector plot because we questioned him on that all day back then before some of these probes have gone much further.

this was about one year after the january 6th insurrection. it was long before jack smith was active. we pressed on how these aids and even lawyers seem to become directly involved, not just in making arguments or defending things, which they are allowed to do, but in advancing active work and appeared to break the law, which could be indictable. these leads, investigators followed them. now, i am going to air that exchange with epshteyn , where he admitted his role in the elector plan. he said he did it with giuliani. that involved, let's recall, trying to deceive the government with blatantly fraud electors and states that had lost, where the loss had been certified. we are airing it, about 90 minutes, from that original interview. you will hear epshteyn it met every elector plan he is now indicted for this week in arizona. >> there has been reported about the attempt to seat

fraudulent electors. is that something you ever worked on or what support, for example, in michigan? >> that is so funny. it is not fraudulent. >> quote, we fought to seat the campaign electors. the campaign asked us to do that. did you make calls with these alternate electors? >> yes, was part of the process to make sure there were alternate electors. >> in your view for the record, you could, as a lawyer to the campaign, seek these electors in states where the process, the state results as overseen by the independent courts, as approved by the supreme court, found that biden won? you do not see any chance that could be against the law? >> the supreme court never ruled on the merits. >> the cases were so weak they never reached the merits. not like bush v. gore, where they have the full case. that included many justices.

>> it was a different makeup of the court. more and more information is coming out every day out of arizona, georgia, pennsylvania, and wisconsin. >> if you are aiding and abetting the ceding of voter fraud, not only is that potential against the law, but then you also was loose lawyer client privilege? >> the potential of fraud was absolutely done by the democrats. everything that was done was done legally by the trump legal team according to the rules and rudy giuliani. >> there you have it. that was a big deal at the time. epshteyn admitting an hour interview after that back and forth, with the results and the examples and the other corroborating evidence that he was in the elector plot. these are states like arizona, where have lost. it looks a lot like government fraud. joyce vance is back with us. i mentioned the nexus in your case, and also how this is

another person in the elector plot that is now facing a potential trial and a potential convention. your thoughts? >> you might as well mark that tape you played as a government exhibit 1. that is an -- he is talking about the fake elector scheme he is now charged and in arizona. when that is added onto some of the other evidence that we have heard about that is publicly known, we do not know what prosecutors might have that we are unaware of. emails are trying to convince officials in arizona they should come on board for this plan, to put in a fake slate of electors to try to tie up the certification of the electoral college vote, that makes arizona's casebook very solid. really interesting that boris epshteyn was in court with president donald in new york. not quite sure what we can make of that.

he was not there for jury selection and was not there for opening statements. he did show up the day after he was indicted in arizona. maybe it was planned in advance, but it is worth following. >> again, it shows how many of these criminal plots intersect. this is somewhat indicted for 2020 election crimes trying to defend against a 2016 election crime as the supreme court hears the related coup election crime. tell me how many of his lawyers and other officials are in trouble? i know it looks like a lot of stamps. in the lower right, you have president donald , now an unindicted co-conspirator in arizona. that would be big news any other year, by any other president, along with his other indictments he faces. as you move over on the screen, you see epshteyn has been indicted in arizona.

up, there are more familiar names that have had more attention because some of them were just indicted a lot earlier in this process. where do epshteyn and these other people fit into accountability? as we cover this trial tonight, joyce, we have heard from people say president donald seems to keep getting away for it , but it does not look like these people are. >> something i always understood as a prosecutor is how slowly justice appears to take place. i think that has been true in this case, maybe more than and anything else i have ever seen. but we are getting to the "find out" point. president donald is in a cold courtroom, not on the campaign trail in manhattan. as these other cases are indicted, particularly this one in arizona, you have to wonder, will someone finally break from the herd and truly cooperate against president donald ? boris epshteyn has the appearance of someone. we do not know for certain. he was in close communication and he could talk about what race was thinking. that is something that jack smith would absolutely like to have in the federal prosecution in the district of columbia when it is permitted to go

forward. it is all intermingled. it is a big spider web. >> i will leave this on the screen. i also want to mention a lot of these people, particularly upper left, clark, eastman, and giuliani, and ellis and powell -- they are all very public. ellis was also on this program. she was giving press conferences. one of their bets was that if you launder this brazen in public, it might look more normalized and prosecutors will not act. did that initially work? is that working now? >> it absolutely worked originally. there were people like you and me who were stunned, right, who immediately saw this as an effort to interfere with the election from as early as president donald beginning to say ahead of the election year that he would not necessarily be bound by a boat that he lost. there was this effort to say it cannot be illegal because we are doing it openly and in

public. that is not the sort of strategy that you can maintain in the face of good, independent prosecutors and that is where we are now. >> interesting. as you said, some go, it is like any other war shock issue -- they said it out loud, so it cannot be that bad. that is the trick or the game some of them are playing. seeing this reach accountability in arizona, mr. epshteyn is presumed innocent, but faces a mountain in evidence, where he said, yeah, i did it. he does not think election fraud is a problem but the prosecutors disagree and the jury will decide on more than one topic. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> we will look at the tabloid side of this. we have a special breakdown and our experts on the history of the new york tabloids and how this might play with a seasoned

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here we are in this trial. we want to stick -- take a step back. president donald grew, thrived, and enriched himself at the -- because of tabloid media hype. but as the great jay-z once said, the same assorted -- he is fighting for his liberty to avoid a felony conviction and

the possible incarceration that could come with that because of, more than anything, the way who did these dirty, unseemly tabloid deals. on friday, his own former assistant took the stand and testified how she saw stormy daniels at that tower reception area and it was also the tabloid chief, david who testified, and explain how this whole thing worked to buy and bury negative stories through the tabloids to boost the campaign. was that your purpose, walking up the story about that? he confirmed, yes.also detailed how they worked with cohen. i will show you these headlines that are, for the most part, false, a false allegation aboutcompetitor marco rubio. another one i can show you. here is the next one. infamously going after ted cruz. david pecker testified it was

not only -- it was manufactured, right down to the photo. defense lawyers tried to say the whole program was just a routine thing they did. in other words, however bad it looks, it was not a campaign thing. it was how they roll. they brought up arnold schwarzenegger and that deal. they say the agreement i had with arnold is -- i would acquire them and buy them for a period of time. the defense also highlighted he did not pay them back for the mcdougall story. that is trying to get the jurors to doubt whether this was a campaign thing or maybe just an inquiry thing. now, mcdougall, i spoke to her lawyer back in 2019 with keith davidson, who told us this. >> the affairs happened in 2006. michael cohen and i first contacted each other about the matter in 2011. at a minimum, they knew about me and about stormy at a minimum in 2011.

they knew about it when president donald declared that he was a candidate for president. >> they knew about this the whole time and the money only gave through at the end. >> the point there, according to the lawyer and the da, the money came because they cared about the campaign and nothing else and that is why this was not just tabloid business but campaign tabloid collusion, if you will. the campaign also highlights a text that davidson, who you just saw, sent to one of the top editors at the enquirer , something that could be ripped out of a novel. do we have a novelist around? looking at the fact that having bury this story that helped president donald just like a plant -- they saw he actually won and said, quote, what have we done? we are joined by presidential story michael and acclaimed american novelist, james, who right -- wrote "bright lights, big city."

it stars the great michael j. fox in the movie version. let's start with you. you know your way a little bit around fiction in new york. what you think about the tablets coming up here. >> he lives in the tabloids. more than one of us did, however -- he use the tablets for his own purposes. he knew very well how they worked in new york and i am happy to say on behalf of new york tabloids, there were not quite as blatant as the national mcdougal, but i remember, for instance, when i was tabloid fodder , i guess i would call it trade and fade, where if they had -- if he got called up and there was a scandal, a piece of gossip, you could get out of it and you could have it killed if you had a juicier item to trade.

so, certainly, donald knew that. they often called up the tabloids. their own publicist would -- you would pretend to be his publicist, spreading wonderful news about himself. i find it quite extraordinary the enquirer actually paid in order to not do the job they allegedly were doing, to deliver news to the general public. it is quite extraordinary. i hear -- david pecker is a great guy, but it is extraordinary, the things he has admitted, the things he admitted were standard national mcdougal practice . at least in those days. >> yeah, that is one of the part that is so interesting and the trial. michael, sometimes people watch these criminal trials and they learn about how policing really goes down.

it is separate from the guilt question. >> i have never seen law and order ever in my life. >> it is not that the inquirer is some font it, hike thing, but even people who think less of it are surprised to understand it is not really any kind of fact-finding media institution. it impersonates a magazine at the supermarket, but it is a whole bundle of deals with no other intrinsic standards. with president donald , way back in the 80s, talking about how he uses media -- >> do you cultivate a hard profile? >> no, for some reason, people call and they want to do something. if they say, donald, we want to do a cover story, you have to go along with it. i cannot really tell you why it happens. >> that is false. >> president donald says something false? where did you find this thing? >> i'm curious what you think about both the sordid, almost

low stakes of this when you think about history. yet, this is the first trial in the supreme court. they reminded everyone why it might be the only trial for >> it might be, but i think, in a way, president donald understood americans better than a lot of other politicians did. he understood the reach of the national mcdougal . the number of people, you would be surprised to see in a supermarket sneaking a look at an article inside a magazine with a really sensational cover. the same goes for that program that he was on, the apprentice. i am sure you are a week where viewer, just like me. >> i was aware of it. >> the point is that paved the way for president donald because a lot of people watched nothing for more than a decade. it shows a serviceable businessman who is deaf with a heart of gold. none of those things are true,

but that was on the show. in 2016, people like me and my guess, like you, who were not weekly viewers of the apprentice, did not know how much that would do to ease his entry into politics. >> j, we have had all these details. they are big fish. no disrespect to any of the other fish. all our fish are special, mike. >> my mother said that about her children as well. >> is this an accurate story? it is a heckuva way to go down. i am just curious, what -- would you write, would you write and i will -- a novel this year -- way? >> several people pointed out to me has appeared in one or two of my novels, something i am embarrassed about now. i think it is interesting. michael just reminded us of the

wayactually apprenticed himself to the ways of the media with the show of his. the apprentice. david pecker testified that during the long run of that show, when he became more and more familiar to the american public, he would repeatedly call david pecker to promote or demote the contestants on the show, to sell his own agenda, whether it was that week. it seems almost extraordinary and almost too linear, however in retrospect, that was a very important part of his rise, which was the apprentice, which went, i do not know, seven seasons or something? i am embarrassed to say, unlike michael, i never watched. >> is a network, we know it

well. >> so much, so much of the story , i think, would be deleted by any conscientious editor as being unbelievable. >> also, the chief character is too cartoonish and inane in certain circumstances. you need a bit more subtlety. >> i think the character approach, this would not pass muster in the work of literature because it is a cartoon. >> although, one thing you mentioned, you had it on screen. we were thinking in the same way. if you had a novel and it was about all this, you would have a character from the national mcdougal calling someone up on the night of his selection and saying, what have we done? >> that is what i think is so important. again, when they look back and say, wow, this really worked, they did not know it would actually work. people, and the jury, to -- they can look back at the end

of the access hollywood tape and the general consensus was proven wrong. you can talk about the iraq war or predicting elections. sometimes the consensus gets it one. they saw this as, yeah, less likely to have an impact. oh, what have we done? as we also mark this week, the supreme court justices who are friendly to continually imply that if you have law and order, accountability on trials, this would be some new bad thing. we have experts on history showing that is not true. maybe bias is showing. >> do you think a little bit? >> i think maybe. if you do have a problem with over prosecuting, that would be one thing, but we have not gotten there yet. you mentioned previously, and we prepared for your view, that we know about nixon and clinton. i mentioned that. he is in the line of the presidency.

the fact there was an accountable process is not viewed as a problem or a bug but as at least if it is bad enough, there are guardrails. look at what we prepared for you. >> i deny the assertion -- >> what was your reaction to the resignation? >> i think it is a sad thing. >> it makes me glad. it should have been done a long time ago. >> simply wonderful. i think nixon should be the next to resign. >> history's lessons. before, you could argue they were sometimes more bipartisan and people looked at that as a high point. we heard from kavanaugh saying that was the problem. the only

good thing was pardoning nixon. what is going on with the lessons of history? >> that was a terrible mistake. that told later presidents like fred >> you can do whatever you want and the worst that might happen to you is, like nixon, you will retire to your villa. in a way, it made the later presidency a crime zone, as was the case in those discussions on the supreme court yesterday. i could not believe my ears. i have always been raised to have respect for the supreme court. to hear them basically saying things that sounded as if they are excusing january 6th come as if it was just a tourist visit, that it was relatively harmless, those are the people who are going to assure a world of democracy and rule of law for future americans. if they continue to talk like that and act like that and, by the way, in so doing delaying the jack

smith trial, which is the only time for him to be directly tried, if he ever is, for what happened on january 6th, we are going to be living in a very unsafe country. >> yeah, really interesting. given how much "real history and upside down history -- we want to get you on that as well. i want to be clear that we started with the adult content that people know from that novel. we started with the enquirer, pages six of the new york post. by the end, we classed it up with the shots. >> if you have to class it up with me, you're really scraping the barrel. >> i am kidding. >> we are classmates, so i take -- >> you are a part. i do not know if jane remembers this, but the daughter of -- they were a nice, smart woman and they were my classmate and

i think her father came to my commencement. i'm the only person in this segment whose commencement was attended by them. >> michael and jay, thank you. our special will continue in a moment. we will be right back. ava: i was just feeling sick. and it was the worst day. mom was crying. i was sad. colton: i was diagnosed with rhabdomyosarcoma. brett: once we got the first initial hit, it was just straight tears, sickness in your stomach, just don't want to get up out of bed.

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former fbi director james comey popped up in this trial. generator -- january 17, he had a meeting and he was there.

they say david pecker brought them in the room and he asked about that mcdougall situation and thanked him. james comey spoke out about all of this. take a listen. >> i was alone with the president of the united states. it was honestly concerning that he might lie about the nature of the meeting. i thought it was important to document. >> he did document that meeting. it was one of the many things he told congress. what we are learning -- you never know what you will learn on trial. in that one meeting, there were, allegedly, at least two different violations, one federal that comey was talking about, and then the reason that was brought up -- the then president-elect was also talking up his tabloid dealer come at the center of a trial and whether he broke campaign finance laws. you can see other people in the

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you've been watching our special trump on trial. you can always connect with me online, including asking questions about this trial at arimelber.com. keep it right here on msnbc.