that was a lot of so before i go, i have a good husband. my new book "small acts of current, a legacy of endurance in the fight for democracy," is coming out. i'm heading to several cities to discuss it, the book tour kicked off with a lunch in philadelphia on may 7th. i will be in washington, d.c. on may 8th and baltimore on may 9th. we are just giving you a handful at a time. we will keep you posted on all of it on social media. you can find me on formerly twitter, instagram, linked in, post news and mastodon. thank you for watching. cat 3 back here tomorrow morning from 10:00 a.m. to noon eastern. velshi is available as a podcast, you can follow and listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. stay right where you are . the katie phang show begins right now. i'm katie phang, live from washington, d.c. here's the week that was. >> in arizona, lawmakers voted

today to overturn the 1864 law that bans nearly all abortions. meanwhile, the u.s. supreme court heard arguments on whether a near-total abortion ban in idaho violates federal lab. a growing number of protests forming over the ongoing war in the middle east at campuses across the country. >> the movement has never been bigger than it is right now. new american weapons are finally on the way after president biden signed the nearly $100 billion foreign aid package. >> it will make america safer, it will make the world safer. in arizona, where a state grand jury indicted 11 republican officials wednesday for their unsuccessful ploy to a ward of the state electoral votes to mr. trent, despite his collection loss to president biden. liberal justices expressed concerns about a president having total immunity. >> i'm trying to understand what the disincentive is from turning the oval office and you know the seat of criminal

activity in this country. >> presidents have to make a lot of tough decisions. he subject to the criminal laws just like anybody else? >> opening statements beginning in the first criminal trial of an american president. the longtime publisher of "the national enquirer" sitting for hours on the witness stand. >> i wanted to protect my company, i wanted to protect myself, and i wanted, also took protect donald trump. prosecutor joshua joshua steinglas asked david pecker. despite the fact that publishing that story would have up to bottom line, you kill the story because it helped donald trump . to which david pecker answers, yes. the conspiracy between donald trump, michael cohen and david pecker, to catch and kill stories in order to benefit donald trump in the 2016 presidential election. the chickens are coming home to roost for trump . we have joyce vance and hugo lowell onset to break it all down.

special counsel jack smith federal election interference case, what some consider to be donald trump's most consequential trial, is hanging in the balance as the united states supreme court considers the question of how far the former president criminal immunity extends. on thursday, the high court hearing oral arguments. according to nbc news, although the court appears likely to reject trumps expensive claim of absolute immunity, it could remand the case for further proceedings. now, if a majority of justices take that route, it would doom the trial to be delayed until after the 2024 election. if trump wins the white house, the case may be thrown out altogether. while we await a decision, trump is not finding much sympathy from republican leadership with senate leader mitch mcconnell saying in an

interview on thursday that he doesn't think presidents should be immune from criminal prosecution for actions taken while in office. joining me now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney in alabama, and received legal analyst and the cohost of the sisters, podcast and hugo lowell, political investigations reporter at "the guardian." my friends, thanks for being here. it is a two block free-for-all. i'm going to start with you, joyce. let's talk in detail. i think this is important for our viewers to understand. if this case gets reminded back to the judge, which a lot of us believe it's probably going to be the happy medium between the conservatives on the supreme court and the liberal judges, let's talk about what that remand analysis will look like. what would judge chutkan do to be able to determine what was an official act, that has immunity, and a private act that does not ? >> that is the ruling that is

expected, that instead of saying donald trump has absolute immunity, his position, or very little immunity, the government's position, the expectation after argument is that the court will say some immunity for official actions, that maybe not a whole lot. everyone seemed to agree in oral argument that private conduct by the former president doesn't merit immunity. the real argument is about these official acts and what their scope is. it is likely that means the court will remand this case to judge chutkan and they will ask her to make that decision. that is both a legal and a factual issue because there are facts, there is evidence involved, we could see her hold an evidentiary hearing. it delays the trial on the one hand but, on the other hand, that could be the opportunity for some of the government's evidence, the meticulous work that jack smith did in front of the grand jury, that could soon become something that americans are conversant with. we have an opportunity to see more of the evidence against donald trump. >> hugo, forgive me for a second, i want to stay with joyce on this. please chime in at any time.

i want to stay on this because we talk about remand, we talk about an evidentiary hearing but i want to dig down because i also want to understand this a little more. you will have almost like a mini trial within a mini trail, within a mini trial. he will have witnesses come forward. aren't you previewing for donald trump what the case will be if it goes to trial ? number two, we heard the verb expunge when we were hearing oral arguments in front of the supreme court, the idea according to the lawyer for donald trump, you would have to expunge, meaning you would take away the portions of the indictment that address the immune conduct, the immunized conduct and leave the illegal, private conduct. how would that look if i am judge chutkan and you are coming to me as special counsel jack smith, will you put a witness up who will testify under oath to me at the judge and i'm going to say that doesn't sound like private conduct, that sounds like official conduct? >> i think this is and unfamiliar territory for prosecutors. if defendant sometimes asked to

part of the indictment stricken, removed. here, john sarah, the president's lawyer, would be saying some portions of this indictment alleged conduct the supreme court has now sent the former president is entitled to immunity for. that all has to be redacted, stricken from this indictment before the case proceeds to trial. and, that would put the onus on the government and on trumps lawyers, really, to argue in front of the judge both the legal issue, where is the divide between what the supreme court says he gets immunity for and what they say he doesn't get immunity for, but also what is the evidence to back that up. katie, you asked about whether that would let the former president lawyers get a preview of the government's case, it is something you don't love as a prosecutor but there is no longer anything like trial by surprise in the federal courts. they have all of this evidence in discovery. >> hugo, let's talk about a burden shift. in a criminal case, the burden is on the prosecution, short and to the exclusion of a

reasonable doubt. as we follow this line of reasoning, if you follow this idea that this is how it would go down in terms of a remand, shouldn't donald trump still have the burden? because, he is the one claiming immunity, he is the one saying that i did this conduct but i am immunity for it, versus special counsel having to show that it is the conduct that is not immunized question >> trumps slurs would say no way. and, they have always maintained, from the start that, you know, this is unjust and vindictive prosecution. so, i think that is an argument that the trump lawyers have been pushing from the very start of this case. but, i think on the point joyce was making, this is slightly separate, if this case doesn't go to trial because of the remand process before the election because you have to go back to the trial judge and starts taking some of the

indictment, some of the evidence comes out, that might not be a bad thing. if you think about the classified documents case, for instance, the seminal moment in that investigation was when the government put the photo of the boxes and all of the classified documents strewn on the floor. whenever one thinks about transporting classified document, they look at the indictment and the boxes in the bathroom at mar-a-lago stacked high up in the ballroom. if you are not going to get a trial before the election, i think that actually, in its own way, gives voters a lot of information and an image in their mind about what they think about the case when they go to the ballot box. >> you are dialed into trump world very tightly. what was the reaction from them after the oral argument? >> it was mixed. i think, the thing with the trump lawyers is they will say publicly they always wanted, they always believed they would get absolute immunity because that was their position. i think what the trump lawyers did with respect to the supreme court, they didn't do in the

d.c. circuit, was to make this bait and switch and they presented what they wanted was absolute immunity and this is what we are going to push for and then they offered a confirmation as it actually me know, if you want an offramp, we will give you the remand. that was always in play. they didn't really use it at the d.c. circuit, it was raised by one circuit judges and the d.c. circuit and then when they deployed it at the supreme court, i got a text from someone on the trump campaign thing that was the switch. a lot of defense counsel's around trumps orbits saw that as a smart move. >> i'm just going to, as we go to commercial, i'm going to stick with what ketanji brown jackson said, which is why don't we just answer the question. why don't we just answer the question presented to us, say no and then we don't have to get into this crazy analysis. we are going to take a break but when we come back to we will have hugo and joyce stay with us. we will go to new york and we will go to the election interference trial that is going on and just ended week two and we will get down into the details. the details. new sensodyne clinical white

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hold accountable for hush money payments intended to influence the outcome of the 2016 election. the undisputed star this week? not donald trump but rather the prosecution's first witness, the former publisher of "the national enquirer", david pecker, who had the stunning back and forth with prosecutor joshua steinglass. >> a story about a star having a sexual relationship with a presidential candidate would've sold magazines? david pecker. yes. >> joshua steinglass would have been "the national enquirer" gold? you have zero intention of publication even if it would help the bottom line. you killed it because it would have hurt president trump's? david pecker . correct. court cannot be back in session until tuesday but the breakdown is happening right now. running me is joyce vance and hugo lowell. we were in new york at the same time for this title. david credibility. he was saying donald trump, he considered to be his mentor. yet, to his credit, even on cross examination by the defense attorney for donald trump, david pecker stood his ground. he held the line and said this was all to help influence the

outcome by benefiting donald trump's campaign. >> "the national enquirer" wanted to protect this trump and this came through all through the testimony. it was extremely significant because trump was hoping or trumps lawyers were hoping to a certain extent they would be able to suggest that he was disgruntled, that they hadn't been friends for some time. they didn't have close connections anymore. but, with david pecker going on the stand and say i find as a mentor and i like his business deals and consider him a good guy as far as he was concerned, i think that actually solidifies his testimony in a way that trump was hoping it wouldn't. that exchange in particular, when he said he could have helped the magazine, editorially would have

benefited the magazine and you didn't run the story. it was a commercial thing, it wasn't an editorial thing, and he killed it. that was a seminal moment in court. >> joyce, one of the things that was an interesting moment for david pecker, which is conciliation agreement, which is a fancy way of saying with the federal election commission, the fec, the parent company of "the national enquirer" agreed to not be prosecuted for a violation of fec rules because of the $150,000.00 and made to karen mcdougal. it does say in this agreement that ami technologist that the principal purpose of entering into the agreement with michael cohen and donald trump was to suppress karen mcdougal's story so as to prevent it from influencing the election. this is somatically the theory as well of the prosecution, is it not ? >> it is. that is what the prosecution has to prove to convert the simple misdemeanor of false business records and the felony crime of creating false business records in order to conceal or eight in the commission of another crime. and, i think, katie, it is worth peeling back the curtain

a little bit here to talk about what is going on behind the scenes with david pecker. not only is there an agreement with "the national enquirer", he's also testifying pursuant to a grant of immunity. the way that works is prosecutors tell him if you testifying and if you tell the truth, you won't be prosecuted. but, if you take the witness stand and you line, you are subject to prosecution for everything we've got you on. that means whether you've lied to us and we find out something that that defense counsel brings forward on cross examination, or if you are not fully forthcoming when you testifying. also, witnesses who are in david position, testifying pursuant to a grant of immunity, understand the only path forward for them is to tell the truth. if they stray from that, they are facing prosecution. that is something we will hear the prosecution explained to the jury in closing argument. you don't get to argue the evidence to the jury while you are talking to witnesses. that will happen in closing. they will tell the jury why they can't believe david pecker and by buttressing david

pecker credibility through this testimony, they are setting the stage for michael cohen, who everyone knows will be a difficult witness . the cross examination will be grueling and explosive. what the prosecution is doing is establishing in the jury's mind that whether they like michael cohen or not, they can believe him when he testifies here. >> hugo, let's talk about what i say is the chess pieces of the lawyers at trumps table. for our viewers that aren't there, you have a defense table with trump sitting squarely in the middle and he is usually.emil bove with todd blanche with susan nicholas f.a.r. at the end of the table. we had a switch in the defense attorneys. we had todd blanche get up and deal with the arguments and also get bench slapped by judge juan merchan but we also had emil bove get up to do the cross examination of david pecker. do you expect that to be the case, hugo, throughout the course of this trial, the ping- pong of different layers

getting up? >> i think so. both emil bove and todd blanche, they have prosecution experience and i don't think it was unusual or surprising to see emil bove get up and do some of the cross examination. i don't think it was surprising to see susan necheles get up either. the one thing i did take away from this week was how todd's presence and the mud that todd went before the judge and at the lectern was reduced as the week went on. i wonder if that is, well, so, if you think about the timing, it was after heated opening statements. there were objections sustained

during his opening statement, that wasn't a great look in front of trump. when he was trying to defend the indefensible because trump quite clearly appears to have violated the gag order, when he got bench slapped by judge juan merchan in the contempt hearing. since then, todd blanche has taken a backseat. i wonder if part of that is because he wants to reduce the visibility that he has in front of the judge and continually losing things in front of the judge in front of trump because trump and todd have this close relationship. if you see them in the southern district of florida, in the documents case, they are always laughing and joking and passing notes between each other. that was reduced as the week went on. >> we have the second contempt hearing for the additional four new violations of the gag order by donald trump coming up on thursday morning now and 9:30 but we've yet to get a ruling for the original contempt motions for the 10 violations. trump continues to violate the gag order. what is your theory as to why judge juan merchan has not issued a ruling yet ? >> i think , katie, we just

don't know. there are a couple of possible different reasons. one is that this is a judge who, when faced with a decision about whether to enforce his gag order or not, is going to blink. maybe the specter up in the former president in custody even for a limited time, he's too concerned about what that triggers. but, this is not a judge who gives the appearance of being concerned about that sort of a decision. he has been very forthright, very straight up the middle in his rulings. there is also a possibility he is letting the evidence accumulate and showing there is no possible alternative, that trumps ongoing string of violations of the gag order forced the judge to take steps to enforce it at this point in time. it could be very interesting when we have the second hearing, perhaps we will get a ruling on the first one in the context of that. >> don't love, hugo, when joyce speaks so elegantly but she's

basically saying judge juan merchan is setting up to put him in jail? is that what you're saying? not setting him up in a bad way. he is feeding trump enough rope so trump can hang himself. >> if he puts trump into custody, just does it up front immediately once the first filings are made, there's an appeal and there's a lot of public outcry. if he lets this go to the point where he says i'm doing this because donald trump has given me no choice, i have to protect the integrity of this trial, that is what new york losses to him, this is a much easier sell at that point. >> joyce vance, hugo luo, thank you for being here, chickens, and honduras. you can get the best of msnbc sent straight to your inbox every day. each morning, you will find expert analysis and video highlights from your favorite shows. you can also catch previews of original podcasts and document trees and written perspectives for some of the biggest newsmakers. scan the qr code you see on your screen and sign up right now. still to come, is it time

for tiktok? congressman maxwell frost will join me with what is next for tiktok now that president biden has signed and all but certain band of the blockbuster social media at into law. you are watching the katie phang show, only on msnbc. oh clearer skin... ...and show it off. ♪ nothing is everything ♪ with skyrizi, you could take each step with 90% clearer skin. and if you have psoriatic arthritis, skyrizi can help you get moving with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to skyrizi, there's nothing like clearer skin and less joint pain, and that means everything.

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this week, the famously do- nothing congress got something done. after months of gridlock, house republicans with a lot of help from democrats were able to pass a $95 billion foreign aid package. after passing the senate on wednesday, president biden signed the bill that provides funding to ukraine, israel, and taiwan. also part of that aid package, a provision that gives the popular social media app tiktok nine months to be sold by its chinese owner or face a national ban in the united states. national security concerns have been raised over tiktok

collecting user data but there has been strong pushback from young people and business owners over the possibility of shutting down the popular app. joining me now is congressman maxwell frost, a member of the house oversight and accountability committee. maxwell, it is so good to see you. last month, you were outspoken ahead of a house vote to ban tiktok, stating you were a strong know. what are your thoughts now that the latest measure has passed and it could potentially end up banning the app? >> i think there are many different problems with this approach to the problem. the first thing i'm going to say is something i'm passionate about and we should all be. data privacy, data security, ensuring all americans and all of our data is kept safe and secure from foreign adversaries and also from the mystic private entities as well, there is a lot of work congress needs to do in the technology space and social media space. what we can't do is provide solutions that infringe on the first amendment rights of our

people. and, that is what i believe many of these ban bills due. many folks would say it is not a man bill but what it does is set the company up for failure and not for success when you set these kind of limits. it was encouraging to see extra months added to the second iteration of the bill but there are still first amendment concerns. that is why myself and a few other members of congress, the aclu oppose the bill. we will see what happens. hopefully it doesn't get banned. and i want tiktok to be owned by not a foreign adversary? yes, of course. but, we also have to look at the way in which we propose legislation to make sure it doesn't infringe on people's first amendment rights, especially when so many americans used tiktok. >> let's turn our eyes to florida. that is our home state are always keen to protect the rights for the radians. president biden making a trip to florida ahead of the six week abortion ban coming this wednesday that will kick in.

how critical of an issue do you see reproductive rights in florida ? a lot of people like to say florida has become decidedly red. i beg to differ, i think that the radians care about having access to reproductive rights. your thoughts about that coming up in november? >> of course. it would be a huge issue. the radians care about reproductive rights, they care about their rights in general. we are in a state right now where we have a governor, ron desantis, and the state legislature that acts in an authoritarian way, imposing their will in subverting democracy every chance they can, preempting counties and municipalities from being able to govern, and do what they see is best for their region, which is interesting because this is the party of small government or supposed to be the party of localities and people at home choosing what they want to do. the way they legislate in tallahassee is not that way. floridians are sick and tired of it. that is why this november abortion will be on the ballot in florida. and to use marijuana will be on

the ballot in florida and both of these issues are about freedom and the ability to do what you want to do, especially when it comes to bodily autonomy, something i would say is a human right and let all women and childbearing adults should be able to make that decision themselves, not with ron desantis in the room with them. this is something very important to floridians and we seen it come up in special elections thus far. tom kean earlier this year, who won a special election in a district that ron desantis won by over 10 points. donna dugan, who flipped to the jacksonville seat in the mayoral campaign. these issues are prominent and all of these different campaigns, will be prominent this november as well. >> another important issue i know is near and dear to you is gun violence and the prevention of it. it is also something that has been a very important part of my ability to use my platform to spread awareness. in tennessee, as you know, they ended up passing a law that now allows teachers in schools to

have concealed firearms. the republicans saying that it is for school safety and improve the safety of students in schools. what are your thoughts, congressman, about the fact tennessee now allows this? >> this is people legislating without looking at the facts and without looking at data in simply doing the bidding of the gun lobby, which seeks to pass legislation that will sell more guns. that is all the gun lobby and the nra cares about, selling more guns. two teachers, two kids, to whoever. so, unfortunately, they are not looking at the data that shows us that when there are more guns in the equation, it doesn't make you safer, it makes you less safe. not just that, but our teachers are already drastically underpaid, especially in the south. we already have a huge teacher shortage. on top of that, to add insult to injury, you want to add to the job description carry a firearm? and protector students that way ? give me a break. this is politicians doing the

bidding of the nra and not doing what we need to do to save lives and keep people safe. we are so lucky we have great progressive advocates like justin jones, justin pearson, lorie johnson fighting in tennessee. it goes to show that the fight in the south israel but we are not doing it alone. >> congress men maxwell frost, thank you for joining us today, i really appreciate it, it is always so good to see you. >> thank you for having me on. coming up, student dissent. white demonstrators at columbia university say they are at an impasse with school administrators. the growing pressure on colleges nationwide to quell the protests as graduation ceremonies at closer by the day. a live update from new york city. that's next. . that's next. feed your lawn. feed it.

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protests are continuing today on dozens of college campuses across the nation over the war in gaza. this morning, state police and

campus officers in riot gear arrested about 100 protesters at northeastern university in boston. the university of southern california has now canceled its commencement over safety concerns and no students at columbia university are worried that their graduation could also be disrupted. nbc news digital reporter my england is on campus. minor, thank you for joining us life. what are you hearing that is going on over at columbia this morning? >> reporter: thank you for having me, katie. this morning, we have seen some students in caps and gowns taking their graduation photos but there's a lot of questions surrounding graduation. now, it is scheduled for may 15th. the main commencement ceremony happening on the best

lawn. there are questions of 50 location will change with the schedule will change because of the encampment of the pro- palestinian protesters also on the west lawn. take a listen to two students we spoke to this morning and their thoughts about the protest possibly impacting graduation. >> i didn't my undergraduate and master ceremony. there are a lot of events in the past few years that prevent the celebrations. i think this is one of them. >> they seem to say they won't leave. that is completely fine. i don't know, especially if the president decides to go along with graduation. >> the latest update from the university is that the university senate has adopted a resolution and that is to investigate the administration's response to these protests. that resolution saying in part "the executive committee did not approve the presence of nypd on our campus at this time." we know the president sent out an email to the campus community saying calling the nypd again would be counterproductive to a lot of the progress that has been made

between the student protesters and the school administration. katie. >> nbc news digital reporter maya eaglin, thank you for getting started. so, the college protests of today ring with echoes of yesteryear. in the 1960s and 70s, college campuses were the centers of activism as students fought against the draft, vietnam, civil rights violations, and apartheid in south africa. today, just like then, we are seeing college students call on universities to cut ties with israel over the israel hamas war. the universities are pushing back against these largely peaceful protest with militarized police showing up in riot gear to handle unarmed protesters. so, i see that, what you see on your screen, and i think of the kent state tragedy in 1970, when the university president called on the national guard to

disperse protesters, which led to officers firing into the crowd, killing four and wounding nine. we don't have to repeat our mistakes. we can learn from history. i have the perfect guest to talk about that. joining me now is douglas brinkley, presidential historian and history professor at rice university. it is so good to have you here. when we thought about doing the segment, we thought why not get somebody who is in a college setting who is a member of the faculty but also has the ability to give us context, i think historical context is so important. let's start with the first question. protests, especially student activism led protest, that is something that is not new on a college campus. why does it feel different, why does the intensity feel so different ? >> college protest has been part of american tradition. when we go back to henry david thoreau, most known for writing "walden," he wrote to the great

essay on civil this obedience where he spent a night in jail because he wouldn't pay taxes to the mexican-american war, calling it a war of aggression. and, henry david thoreau was was a protest. martin luther king whole movement, he claims essay by henry david thoreau got him and civil disobedience. talk about foundational documents, constitution, declaration of independence and the like, emancipation proclamation. civil disobedience as part of american tradition of dissent. when you do it and how do you do it matters because you can get stigmatized. henry david throw had someone tell him out of jail. will being arrested at columbia stop you from getting employed in the future question >> now you have an arrest record. >> what are the consequences, is this your time to be calling to divest, but what really concerns me is the wave of anti- semitism that has hit our country. i never thought i would see it

in this kind of way. it is seeming to be slurs and language against jewish- american students, students from israel. it is unacceptable. i am all for free speech but you can't use anti-somatic slurs on a campus. free speech has its limits. i wouldn't have said that at berkeley, the days of free speech movement but you realize that you have to stay away from that or you are going to get in huge trouble. i recommend no students use any slur. >> let's talk about what i think looks like a disproportionate response. it is coming in two different ways. one is the militarized police response we are seeing. we see an on-campus response from their security and their version of law enforcement but then you see law enforcement coming in, riot gear, to be able to deal with protesters. doesn't that seem to be

disproportionate? the exercising of these first amendment free-speech rights and response been kind of, not kind of, incredibly violent in terms of how they are dealing with that ? >> i agree. it is horrific the way governor greg abbott of texas is peacock in about sending in guys armed like they are going to war to do some arrest at the university of texas campus. but, greg abbott gets points for it from the trump crowd, it is like in the 60s. they are beating up on the hippies. john lewis, the great civil rights leader, used to have children touch his head and touch it and there is a big dent in the middle. he had been beaten so many times. when i see campuses call for militarizing a campus, it is wrong and it only creates an

escalation of the problem because this is like an arab spring in reverse going on here. these students at columbia, when they are being arrested, are triggering kids at yellow or brown and now they are on that working together. the communication world has changed since 1868. state, 1970, you heard someone was shot, you knew a kid at kent state, and directed it to see if your kid was all right. today, regarding instant information and new ways. everybody has to act responsible. you are allowed to protest, you are allowed to dissent. no swearing or anti-somatic remarks are allowed. and, the presidents have to show some spine. in the degree of it is a very big deal to cancel a commencement. >> a lot of these kids are the covid-19 kids. i heard that in the piece from maya eaglin. some of these kids didn't have a high school graduation. a demand there didn't have a college graduation because of covid-19. this changes their psyche, the idea of them having a

traditional experience in a college setting or university setting gets completely changed by this because of the response that is coming. a lot of these places are private institutions of learning. they can legally create the rules of how they want to be able to do things. >> absolutely. then woodrow wilson famously said, in politics, extreme caution is a sign of selfishness. you are having presidents of universities like university of southern california siding it is easier for me to cancel than to handle the headaches that are going to come if i go forward with the valedictorian who said something positive about gaza or the situation, meaning anti-israel in any way, i will lose donors, i will be driven out of my profession i worked so hard to be a president. they just have to think in new security terms. a school like usc has massive sports programs.

have police but normal police. have people to crowd control. they were doing and all the bricks in downtown l.a. scene, use it as a dress rehearsal. same with chicago coming with the democratic convention. we don't want a repeat of 1968 where mayor daley's police beat, tear gassed everybody, journalists, everybody willy- nilly fashion. they help create a chaotic situation. and, some of the protesters were misbehaving. we have to avoid that and we can. you have to have some courage right now and say we are going onward with commencement, we are going to get control of our campuses and take a chill pill. this will work through. 68 was worse. we had more people being killed and things burned and why gets going on and assassinations. campuses are troubled right now but we have seen trouble before and we will get through this. >> if we don't learn from

history, we are bound to repeat. so good to see you on set. thank you so much for being here. coming up next, inspiring women. history making olympic and christie yamaguchi joints and iconic cast of women with their own barbie dolls . you don't want to miss this interview. i'm so excited. don't go anywhere. anywhere. blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn.

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a or b. with the launch of

aapi heritage month days away, the iconic doll brand is adding a new face to their inspiring women's series, the legendary kristi yamaguchi, who made history in 1992 when she became the first asian-american woman to win the olympic gold in figure skating. joining me now is that olympic gold medalist in figure skating, kristi yamaguchi. i have to first start and say i want everybody on social media i would be a fan girl throughout this entire interview. you have been a personal hero for me. thank you for the honor of being able to spend some time with you, especially in the context of what we will be talking about. you are joining some amazing company in the aspiring women collection for barbie dolls , including my angelo and jane goodall. i want to know what was your reaction when you found out you would be joining this lineup. >> first off, thank you for

having me. thank you for all the support. it was a huge, huge surprise and honor for sure. i think having seen the anna may wong doll and looking up to dr. jane goodall, amelia earhart, my angelo, these are heroes of mine. to be able to join them in the series, it was mind blowing and just really excited. it is fun to be able to take a look back to my 20-year-old self, i guess. >> we get to take the look back with you because i have the doll here. the doll is fully outfitted in your winning 1992 olympics costume, from the white skates to the black leotard with the gold embellishments down to, i have to say it, those bangs are iconic. what was it like for you to see how much barbie dolls wanted to

pay attention to the details to that incredible moment in time? >> i certainly appreciate all the details and i think that is what makes the inspiring women series so special. they do pay attention to those details and the authenticity to what ever woman that they are portraying. it was so great. they went as far as even talking to laura sheehan, the costume designer, even the boot maker who has their logo on my skate. and, you know, replicating the flower bouquet that i was holding on the podium. it was really fun to see it come together and come alive. and, to be involved throughout the process. >> barbie will split $25,000 resends between your foundation and another important group called asian sisters participating in reaching

excellence aspire. can you talk about the work that those organizations are doing? >> yes, well, aspire is so amazing. of course, this doll is debuting right ahead of aapi month in may and they empower young girls and future leaders, asian-american girls in mentor ship. always dream is all about early childhood literacy, making sure that we level the education playing field and get the resources in the communities who need it most to have books at. also family engagement and support to help the families at home with their child's education. with the, really incredible that they are so thoughtful for the community and support the organizations. >> i want to say on behalf of my younger self, who watched you sometimes in the early hours, depending upon the time zone, to see you take your

talent and do it in a way that exceeded any type of limitations, the fact that you were out there were presenting the aapi community before we even thought we could have that type of presence, and on behalf of my nine-year-old daughter who is half korean, you know, it is important for her to be able to have that experience to see somebody like you continue to be a best-selling author but to also now have your own inspiring women doll. kristi yamaguchi, thank you for the honor of joining me today. i appreciate you very much. >> thank you, katie, it is my honor. my thanks to all of you for joining us today. you can catch me back here next saturday at noon eastern. remember to follow us on social media. you can also catch clips of the show on youtube with msnbc reports with alex wick is coming up next. next.

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