said yes to a father's deadly ultimatum. >> she is a human being. she is still a child. she might be considered an adult, but i consider her a child. >> she killed your daughter. >> she killed my daughter. she is a victim. i struggle with this. i struggle. i asked michele, i say, michele, what you want me to do? what do i do with this child of yours? and i honestly believe that my daughter would want her to be accepting response ability for what she did, and she is. i don't know if i forgive her. but i understand her. that is all for this edition of dateline. i am andrea canning, thank you for watching. good morning, and will come to this saturday edition of

morning joe we can. let's get to some conversations from this week that you might have missed >> an arizona grand jury has indicted 11 of these local collectors, along with several other allies of donald trump, for their efforts to overturn the 2020 election. a 58 page indictment including conspiracy, fraud and forgery charges related to attempts, by the defendants, to change the election results of donald trump this was the scene on december 14th, 2020, when 11 people met at the republican party headquarters in phoenix to sign a certificate, claiming to be arizona's 11 electors, despite joe biden winning. >> what are you guys doing? >> you are the 11,000 votes probably broadcasting it. >> what are they thinking? what are they thinking? >> i just can't. >> like okay, we are fraudulent electors. there is a fraud scheme going on here. let's put the cameras on. >> maybe they are providing

evidence. they were thinking ahead three and half years down the road, they are really going to need this as evidence. here's us, breaking the law. so the document indictments describes seven others in trump's orbit, indicted, had their names redacted. those aids include white house chief of staff, mark meadows, rudy giuliani, jenna ellis, john eastman, christina bob, trump campaign official board, epstein, and former campaign and white house official, mike roman. trump was not charged, but is described as an unindicted co- conspirator 1. it marks a significant step forward in an investigation that has spanned more than a year. here is arizona's attorney general, chris mays. >> i understand, for some of you today it didn't come fast enough. and i know i will be criticized for others for conducting this investigation at all. but as i have stated before and will say here again today, i will not allow american democracy to be undermined. it is too important.

>> arizona now becomes the fourth state to file criminal charges against the so-called fake electors that sought to undermine president biden's victory over trump. so, joe, we saw the video there. they also signed a fake certificate that they posted to social media. i mean, they were breaking the law, pretending they were the state's electors when they weren't, because joe biden had won. narrowly, but won. broadcasting exactly what they were doing and now the bill has come due. >> you know, i-- i am not a prosecutor. we have plenty of former prosecutors on and we are going to bring them on in a minute. but, really, it's like thank you so much for waiting until the day before the election. all of these cases that were brought in 2020-- like 2023, 2024. look at the date there. december 14th, 2020. i really am-- and i am certainly not just pointing out

this attorney general in arizona. i could bring all of them. the justice department. what did it take so long? georgia, we kept asking why georgia was taking so long. [. he said no, i don't want to bring that case. and then brings it, a similar case like a year later. it goes on and on. but again, the timing, first of all, it frustrates me for people who don't like donald trump, because he is not-- if there were laws broken it is not going to get resolved before the election for people who support donald trump they are all doing it in an election year. i know it takes a long time if you look at what happened on january the sixth, it's kind of like i don't-- i don't understand a four year delay or three and half year delay, but

in all of these cases it is stupid and i have to say there were people, there were progressives morning about this -- legal people warning about this for the past couple of years and here we are. >> it's been a long time coming and it seems clear cut, given the fact that we were just shown video of the crime being committed right here. and here's donald trump-- >> and here's us breaking it is vacant the prosecutor saying okay, look-- let's talk about this. for 4 years. >> instead of being the fake electors, they call themselves the alternate electors, the alternate slate that we believe to count the votes. remember, it was president trump at the time, he called the governor of arizona, doug ducey, a republican, to try to get him to flip the state's result as he was certifying them, and he famously ignored the call from donald trump and certified it for joe biden.

let's bring in msnbc legal and list, and legal correspondent, lisa rubin. good morning to you both. we can get to the timing of this in a minute, lisa, but let's talk about the substance of it. so, you have these 11 so-called fake electors, seven aides to donald trump, including rejoining giuliani, mark meadows, all of them as we have mentioned. for the benefit of our viewers, what exactly are these people accused of doing around the 2020 election? >> welcome 11 fake electors are accused of forging documents, right? by signing an elector certificate and then sending it on to the arizona secretary of state to the united states senate, to the national archives, which is what real electors do. they are facing three counts of forgery, but they are also facing counts that have to do with broad, fraud and trying to sort of hold themselves out to be the legitimate electors, and that of course, is a scheme that they engineered with the help of the senate, redacted

individuals who, as you know, include several trump attorneys, but also, mark meadows and mike roman, the director of operations. >> so, help me here. >> if i got a document there >> and a video. >> and video, and they come in, and they put their hands up and said we did it, i mean, that was in december of 2020. you have got them signing fraudulent -- >> what are we missing? >> why does it-- and again, this sounds like i'm going out for the arizona attorney general, i am not. i am merely saying what a lot of people have been sick for a couple years, what is taking taking merrick garland so long? what is taking the georgia case so long. why would it take them almost four years to turn around a case, where you have got the video of the fraudulent document in december of 2020? >> joe, one possible explanation is that a number of

states stood down on their own investigations, because they expected the department of justice to charge some of these people, and when we ultimately saw that indictment against a single individual of the federal election interference case, it may have been that, at that point a fire was lit under several states attorney general, who said this and, if they are not going to handle this, then i guess there's nothing else to do but for us to handle it. so, that is one possibility. another possibility is the things needed to come into the public domain, and they needed cooperation. one thing that is strengthening this indictment, vis-@-vis others, is that it reeks of 10 chaz roe, an unindicted co- conspirator's indictment. there are multiple citations to emails involving mr. chaz roe, but also others, and it is clear to me that this group in arizona whether it is the january 6th in investigation or congress, or even a civil litigation in wisconsin, which public records now include females from jim, a wisconsin

attorney who worked with it campaign, or kenneth chesebro himself. a lot of these emails are quoted in this indictment as well, which makes some of those other and talk documents are damning can they could say we were just doing this as a contingency plan, but in this indictment you see a quotation to an email that was sent on december 14, basically saying, we have got to hurry and rush in, get this lawsuit on file, because that is intent did to be cover for the fake electors. that is a transparent admission , as any, that the dog was-- sorry, that the tail was wagging the dog here, right? >> willie, so, they were doing good actual legal work? they were rolling up their other witnesses, you can use ken chesebro and others to help make this case more airtight? this, of course, proves that i probably shouldn't have read

hunter thompson throughout law school, and maybe i would be as smart as lisa. but maybe i figured it out. that is an argument. for people who say, why is it taking so long? maybe they are building off of other cases. >> yeah. i mean, and clearly they swept up a ton of people in this indictment. including christina bob, who, let's remember, just a few weeks ago, she was named by the rnc to run the election integrity committee. which is fun to think about that. just a moment. now she is indicted in this alleged scheme. so, danny, why not ask about donald trump's rolling all of this and he could potentially be listed as an unindicted co- conspirator 1, so he has not been indicted here, what does that mean? what are they saying about appear? >> what is amazing is he has been an unindicted co- conspirator. number one, he was individual number one, when michael cohen

came into federal court and pleaded guilty. so, trump is no stranger to be an unindicted something who is named in a criminal document. whether it be an indictment, an complaint. so, is this bad for donald trump? yeah. i mean, what we are seeing is that it is up to-- when you talk about the several states, any county prosecutor could decide, hey, you know what? this affected our state, our county, the attorneys general could do the same thing, and you know, going back to why so long? what was the delay all about? i totally agree with what lisa said. i would just like to add to it. i mean, it is no surprise that prosecutors were probably waiting around to see who was going to be the first to do it, because it is scary. it is scary to indict former president of the united states, because he has and will fight like heck at every level and losing a case, maybe the first against the former president would be a crushing defeat.

in my view, from a social perspective, it was no surprise that, in just the last year, was the first indictment came down, everyone else felt much more emboldened to start indicting the president, because, listen, i don't blame them. it is a scary prospect, with just blaming disaster possibilities. we have lots more to get to this hour. morning joe weekend continues after a short break. t break. ef. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer.

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elections can be about the future, so while we are hearing a lot political debate about these two candidates, their age, it may be that a significant chunk of the electorate is focused more on something about the future, what kind of country would want to have in 10 or 20 years and that is a very different prism, but that is surprising, compared to what our political debates tend to sound like. in the next few hours, a few hours, we will be sending in equipment to ukraine for air defense munitions, for artillery, for rocket systems and armored vehicles. you know, this package is literally an investment. not only in your security, in europe's security, our own security. we are sending ukraine equipment from our own stockpiles. they were were punished though stockpiles with new products by american companies made here in america.

for once, while mega republicans are blocking eight, ukraine has been running out of artillery shells and ammunition. meanwhile, putin and his friends keeping them while supplies, ran sending drugs, north korea has sent them ballistic missiles and artillery shells. china is providing components and know how to boost russia's defense production. with all of this support, russia has wrapped up their airstrikes against ukrainian cities and critical infrastructure. rating down munitions on brave ukrainians defending their homeland. no america is going to send ukrainians the supplies they need to fight. there is one thing this bill does not do. border security. you know, just this year i proposed and negotiated and agreed to the strongest border security bill this country has ever, ever, ever seen. it was bipartisan. the shipment included in this bill, and i am determined to get it done for the american people. >> you know, it is really fascinating, lindsey graham on

the air, or on the senate floor said that they had a great border security bill and, unfortunately, donald trump killed it. so, i am surprised he even dared to say that. so, we agree with that. president biden, of course, has been a champion of this from the very beginning, helping ukraine. he has done an extraordinary job, and again, we just -- i am thankful that speaker johnson, chairman mccall, that chairman turner, chairman rogers, in the house republican caucus, were such strong advocates of this, because it is-- it is still shocking to me as a former republican. still shocking. the majority of republicans in the house voted against aid for ukraine. not so in the senate, republican senate, thank goodness. so, but there is a real split

in the house. and unfortunately, the majority of republicans in the house voted against-- welcome i will just put it this way. they took vladimir putin's side in this battle. let's bring in, right now, center for the washington post, staff writer for the atlantic, and former reporter for the wall street journal, matthew krasinski. david, your latest piece in the washington post is titled, how ukraine can make the best use of the u.s. aid package. telus, how can they do it? >> so, joe, yesterday was a bad day for vladimir putin, no matter what-- it was a good day for biden, good day, as you say for bipartisanship, but ukraine is now, in a sense, putin's forevermore. we have said in the united states, with our european allies, that we are going to provide significant military assistance well into this year,

into next year. i think the key piece of new equipment going into ukraine, we are already beginning to see the effects of it, long-range, they attack them, 300 missiles, which essentially put every russian's supply depot, commandant rituals enter, staging area, inside occupied ukraine. inside a laconia, inside the don bass areas in the east along the coast. those are all along the coast. and i hear people in the white house beginning to speculate that the russians will not be able to maintain the positions that they have their easily. they are going to have to pull their logistics deeper, and that is going to mean a different strategy of this war. one-- much more difficult for the russians. so, we are in a moment a few weeks ago, when momentum clearly seems to be on the russian side. and i think most analysts, including russians, whose commentary i quoted in my piece yesterday, are now convinced

that the momentum has shifted. a big psychological boost for ukraine. >> you know, matthew, last time you are on you were talking about the massive losses that russia was taking, despite the problems on the battlefield. but you have also written that it has been a disaster. this war has been a disaster. economically, demographically, politically, diplomatically. and strategically. and you layout some really strong arguments why that is the case, and why, as david ignatius just said, it is now because of congressional support. it is turning into vladimir putin's forevermore, his worst nightmare. >> well, you know, as david said. is turning into his forevermore. and putin cannot afford a forevermore. you know, economically, russia is may have ambitions to be a

global superpower, but is is basically a pipsqueak. russia's economy is roughly half the size of california's. they cannot sustain this sort of military spending without dire consequences, and we are starting to see that in many areas. you know, for instance, we think that we have very high interest rate over here. to combat inflation, because their economy is so small and can't absorb all of this military spending. they have had to jack up interest rates to 16%, which means, if you want to buy an apartment, you are looking at 21%-22% mortgage rates. you know, this kind of stuff goes right across the board, the russian economy is not big enough and strong enough to sustain this indefinitely. you know, moreover, putin very much miscalculated before the war, you know, nato was

effectively dying an honorable death. and only-- outside of the united states only two numbers were meeting the percentage of gdp for the threshold for military spending. well, you know, that number is now up to 20 of the 32 members. and not just that, but finland and sweden have now joined nato , so, you know, one of putin's railing that nato had expanded to his borders, well, now nato has gotten even bigger, and they are outspending the russians. you know, demographically it is catastrophic for russia. you know, russia has lost its-- basically it its entire tech sector. all of the twentysomething-year- olds. it is the equivalent of, let's say, if 2 million twentysomething-year-olds left silicon valley, palo alto, san francisco, new york, boston, you know, what with that due to this country long term?

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the department of transportation is cracking down on the airline industry this morning. under new regulations that were just announced. airlines will be required to issue cash refunds automatically, should flights be severely delayed or canceled. thank you. in addition, airlines must now make abundantly clear what are charged. when it comes to things like baggage, cancellations and more. joining us now to talk about new regulations as u.s. transportation secretary, pete buttigieg. secretary, it is very good to see you. and these make sense. all of these types of these that are surprise fees or last- minute-- they are infuriating.

are there any regulation changes coming? or rules coming that will make flying safer, because it feels like safety is on the brink with some airlines. >> that's right. you know, our primary mission as a department is safety. that is why the faa has boeing under a microscope. from staffing to technology to make sure that we maintain the extraordinary safety record that the u.s. has an aviation. then you have consumer protection, or other major priority when it comes to the airline sector. we have been on a mission to deliver the biggest expansion in passenger rights in decades. and this is one of the biggest moments in that journey. we have been working on this regulation for more than a year and that includes everything from making sure get your money back on your flight is canceled or significantly delayed. to making sure that it is very clear, as you said, abundantly

clear. what you are paying in the first place. the whole idea of capitalism is you are supposed to be able to- - as a consumer, comparison shop. but if you don't know the difference between the things you are buying, it is not obvious what you charges would be for backs, changing or canceling a flight, picking a seat, you name it, then it is not a free and fair marketplace. so, this rule speaks to all of those things. we think it is going to make a big difference, and we even think it is going to change airline behavior, because knowing that every passenger on a flight that gets canceled will be getting their money back by default, will really change economic incentives for airlines. as we are pressing them to make sure that their schedules are realistic in the first place. >> mr. secretary, good morning. i think a lot of questions travelers have is how we got to this point in the first place. you feel like you pay a ton of money just to take the flight and when you arrive at the airport you feel like you being nickeled and dimed again. you check in, you want to check that? yeah, $50 for that. wait, i paid all of this money

for the flight, why do i have to pay for the bag. you get on the flight, you want a ham sandwich? sure. that'll be five dollars. it is like they are trying to accept extract every nickel out of flyers. why do airlines run the themselves like that that you had to implement these new rules? >> yeah. they have really developed this business model, really over the last 10 or 20 years, where there are all kinds of little charges come up charges on the worst is when it is a surprise charge. look. if you know that you are paying extra because you want something extra that is one thing, but we have some cases where passengers are made to feel like they have bought their ticket and they are going to have to pay extra just to have a seat. so we are requiring the airlines to clarify that you get to sit on the plane if you bought a ticket to be on the plane. even if they are trying to have premium seating or something like that as an add-on. the other thing that i think is really important here is just the default. it sounds technical, but the fact that, by default, without having to ask, you will automatically get money back on whatever form of payment you

used to buy the ticket in the first place, if you have a cancellation or a significant delay, that is actually a big difference from what happens now. right now-- up until now. technically, you are already supposed to get your money back for a cancellation. you have to really fight for it. a lot of times what the airline would do is they would say, well, here's 5000 miles. and that might sound great, if you are not aware that that 5000 miles is worth, i don't know, 50 bucks. and you are actually entitled to say, $400 and a ticket refunds this clarifies all of that, and makes it so that if you unless you, the passenger, proactively take a voucher or miles, you say that you want that, you are getting your money back, cash, prompt, automatic refund. >> mr. secretary, i am a frequent flyer, and i used to all of the delays, delay after delay after delay. i never check it back. i have used to sitting in the confines of a seat with a passenger next to me, who could easily pick my pocket and i

would never know it. but what my real concern is what i want you to try and answer is, what is the status of air traffic controllers in this country? do we have enough of them? do they get overtired? do they pay attention the way they did 10 years ago? or whenever? do we have enough of them? >> so, the answer is, we need more and we are hiring her. you know, if you look at a chart of the last 30 years or so, the number of air traffic controllers has gone down and down and down. until recently, where we finally got that number going up. we hired 1500, then 1800 this year. we are requesting a budget from congress of 2000 next year. so that you don't have as much of this concern about controllers being overworked. we have heard this time and time again, an independent study recently came in with some really concerning data about sleep fatigue and how that is affecting controllers.

which has prompted the faa to take decisive action to require longer rest periods and to specify the rest periods, especially those night shift, because of course, you need to make sure that those controllers are on top. these controllers are pros. it is extraordinary what they do. but we need to support them for that very reason, with the right kind of space between their shifts, with more controllers coming into their ranks, and importantly, with better technology. we are working to upgrade that technology right there, we are asking congress for a mandatory account to make it easier for the faa to plan. so, these controllers really have everything they need to succeed 100% of the time. >> all right, my question might be kind of small, compared to what mike just asked. but since this is about regulations for fees, and maybe put everybody on, because i just want to ask, maybe i'm alone here. maybe this is too small a thing. but how many of you folks are on a plane, and you get wi-fi

and you finally get on and then the wi-fi doesn't work, and then you have paid for wi-fi that doesn't work, am i alone? raise your hand. like, there has got to be-- why do we have to pay for the wi-fi? by the way, they ignore you walking up and down the aisle, go ahead, pete >> yeah. this happened to me the other day, and one of the things of this regulation is also, if you pay for wi-fi and doesn't come true, you get your money back electro your bags, if you pay extra for your back to be checked and it doesn't arrive on time. you get your money back. little things add up, and it is really important, whether we are talking about frequent flyers or somebody who saves up for years to take a flight for a family vacation. when they almost never fly. however he fly, however often you fly you are way more protected now than you were four years ago, and this rule is the latest big step toward that. >> u.s. transportation secretary, pete buttigieg, thank you for coming on the

show this morning, always good to see you, sir. amid growing tensions in the middle east, our next guest says western governments should stop engaging with iran's regime. and focus instead on empowering iranians directly. that important conversation is next, on morning joe. we will be right back. months. if you have an eye infection, eye pain or redness, or allergies to eylea hd, don't use. eye injections like eyla hd may cause eye infection, separation of the retina, or rare but severe swelling of blood vessels in the eye. an increase in eye pressure has been seen. there's an uncommon risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. the most common side effects were blurred vision,

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the new york post discards our next guest is the man who could have been shot. he is the son of the last shah of iran, a teenager in the school of united dates when his father relinquished the throne in 1979. iran was then transformed into the religious theocracy that we see today. reza pahlavi joins us now. he remains focused on a goal of using nonviolent messaging toward igniting a revolution that replaces iran's brutal regime. thank you so much for being on the show this morning, it is good to see you. i want to start by asking for you to describe the status of the regime in iran, as it stands right now, and within that, the support for it or the lack thereof with the people of iran, what you think americans need to understand about the people of iran versus the regime

that runs it? >> of money, thank you for having me on your show. i will start by saying that, after 40 years, the iranian people have the ability to compare where our country was headed, and where we are at now. iran should have been by now, the second japan of the middle east. instead we have become the north korea of the middle east. it is not because the people have changed. it is not because our natural resources are gone. it is the nature of the regime that, from the very beginning, had in its ambition to export an ideology at the expense of the iranian nation, and rather than the mindset of asperity, has been a mindset of expansionism. as a result, iranians today, who are facing poverty, 60% of iranians are on the poverty line, our currency has been devalued more than 10,000 times what it was at the time of the revolution. people are queuing for fuel and food, and instead they see billions of dollars spent on missiles and drones that are hitting other countries or

helping the russians in their campaign against ukraine, while not a single penny is spent on the people themselves. therefore, i have come to the conclusion that, as long as this regime is in place, we will not see or have the opportunities, not just about liberties and freedoms, but also opportunities to grow and prosper. >> mr. reza pahlavi, there are clearly many in iran who agree with what you're saying, but i'm not quite sure where the are in the iranian regime. you look at what happened in 2022, there was an enormous amount of coverage here in the united dates and europe as well of all of those various brave young iranians who came onto the street that took off their headscarves, but 22,000 people were imprisoned, more than 500 young people were killed by the regime and those demonstrations have effectively died away. the regime implemented a campaign of year and it be the demonstrations. what makes you confident that the regime is on its back foot and looking fragile?

>> well, because there are some missing elements. as you pointed, people have been fighting this regime for years, demonstrations after demonstration indifference decades in different generations, leading up to the movement life freedom movement, which was the strongest and most provocative of its kind. but there were some missing elements. you cannot expect people, who are completely defenseless and armless, to fight an extremely defensive regime, while not a single active support have been given to them. rather, money has been released to a regime that has been spending it even more on its proxy wars, but also in its campaign of repression at home. and there's only that much that we can do as a citizen, using nonviolent methods, to ask for change, facing a regime that is brutal, without getting any element of support from the outside world. and, i must point the issue that, in fact, most of the move ends of liberation or saving yourself from the thought oriole systems or racist system

could not have happened in modern history, without the tacit support of the western pre-world. the example? solidarity in poland. example, south africa. this was not possible without the application of either economic sanctions on those regimes, but also some tacit support. the two basic ingredients that we have had so far facing this regime has been lack of support from the outside world, which is why i have been calling for a policy of-- parallel to whatever is a campaign of maximum pressure, munich economic sanctions on the regime. there is the necessity of also having maximum support. this is going to be the game changer, if that decision is made, if finally some key governments realize that it is futile to expect behavior change from a regime that it, in its dna cannot be anything other than what it has displayed, the time has come to invest in an alternative, and that is the people of iran themselves are calling for liberation. they have the very same values of the western pre-world, unlike a regime that doesn't

have the slightest value for humanity, or the quality or justice. >> claire mccaskill has the next question. claire? >> yes. sir, as nobody who is very involved in the iranian nuclear agreement under the obama administration, it was controversial from day one. i would like your perspective on iran's nuclear ambitions right now, where do they stand? and what impact did walking away from that agreement have on the danger that this regime poses to the world? >> well, as i mentioned earlier, the biggest issue that you have, dealing with this kind of regime is a little bit like the finger on the trigger, which is the threat. can you even trust this regime? does any kind of agreement actually give you the sense of security that they will abide by it? it is a ticking time bomb, and it was indefinite timing on

that. so, the approach about dealing with this regime, only on the nuclear issue, forgot all of the other aspects and that this regime has on regional instability into its neighbors affair. now, why would this regime use the same logic of the terrorist that some key nuclear countries have used in the past? i don't think that people who sleep at night, knowing that france is a nuclear country. it is a democracy. the problem is when you have dictatorships and totalitarian systems that are potentially could be armed with such technology. so, the threat is the nature of the system it health, and i don't think there is any kind of agreement that can give anyone a satisfaction that now we are all right, and we will be good boys and abide by those principles. so, a little bit of time has been wasted. the best trust, and i think this is something that the israelis understand, the saudi's understand, our immediate region understands. but the regime itself is the threat. once the regime disappears, every aspect that has been

threatening the region with instability, whether it is the support for the proxies that the regime has, fomenting terrorism, the nuclear threat, all of this disappears at once. and the difference would be a nation that is now committed to regional stability and cooperation and togetherness, as opposed to a regime that is doing the exact opposite. your life the alternative we have lots more to get to this hour. morning joe weekend continues after a short break. break. like a puppy again. his #2s are perfect! he's a brand new dog, all in less than a year. when people switch their dog's food from kibble to the farmer's dog, they often say that it feels like magic. but there's no magic involved. (dog bark) it's simply fresh meat and vegetables, with all the nutrients dogs need— instead of dried pellets. just food made for the health of dogs. delivered in packs portioned for your dog. it's amazing what real food can do. ( ♪♪ ) asthma. it can make you miss out on those epic hikes with friends.

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>> there is a saying out here. every man has three hearts. one in his mouth, for the world to know, and the other in his chest, just for his friends. and the secret heart, buried deep, where no one can find it. >> that is a look at the critically acclaimed limited series, "shogun" and fx, based on the historical fiction novel of the same name. program tells the story of 17th century, feudal japan, in a nation embroiled in its politics with religion and foreign interests also playing a critical role. florence has called "shogun" the best show on tv right now. time says shogun isn't a remake, it is a revelation. and usa today said "shogun" is

a genuine tv epoch you have been waiting for. the finale aired last night. and the full series is available now on hulu. and the star of the series is the award-winning actor, hiriyuki sonata. thank you for joining us. you will remember, it hears from bullet train, john wick, avengers endgame, a ton of movies. but everybody is talking about this series. so, for people who haven't seen it yet and are going to sit in front of hulu and start it, set the table a little bit, when we find ourselves as the series begins with your character? >> yeah. it was a great experience, you know? this is my favorite character, because he is a hero in japan. and i spent a great time in vancouver as a producer, and as an actor as well. we had a great collaboration

with a western team and japanese team, all working together, you know. so, it was an east meets west dream team, we had. so, i spend a great time with it. >> i almost want to call you lloyd tour in. >> thank you. >> you are here physically right in front of me, and the conclusion of the series was a dream of a dream. that is the captioned, title of the series. was making this series one of your dreams as an actor? as a japanese man? was it? >> kind of. yes. introduce our history and culture to the world is very important that is why we try to make authentic as much as possible, and yeah. it was a meaningful shooting and then showing to the world. i am so happy to have a finale

yesterday. i am proud of my crew and cast. >> sanada-san [ speaking in a global language ] glad to have you here. having done this, you are the only japanese actor to have played with the world shakespeare company when you played role in king lear. how difficult is it for japanese actors to breakthrough in the united states and the united kingdom? how do you think you have managed to do it? >> yeah. playing shakespeare was my biggest challenge in my life. you know, first time shakespeare english in front of the live audiences. yeah. but it was a great experience, mixing culture, creates something new no one ever see. you know? i felt, this kind of international project is going

to be my next mission in my life, i thought. then i told the audition for the last samurai and then jumped into hollywood. so, that experience changed my life, and, yeah. i wanted to continue filmmaking or anywhere in the world. i cannot change something just one movie, or tv show. i wanted to continue just keep continue, and get to somewhere next step. so, this 20 years i had a great experience during the shooting show or movies. then, i put all of my experience into "shogun". so, yeah, i think all of the experience worked and brought me here now.

>> well, it is all paying off. you heard all of the praise, the critical praise i read, people comparing it favorably to game of thrones and it scope. it is truly an epic. and don't go away. we have a second hour of morning joe weekend for you, right after the break. what? horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. what happened to my inner child craving love and acceptance? how about you love and accept this? p-p-p-p-powershot! when can i drive? you already are! the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover. some people just know that the best rate for you is a rate based on you, with allstate. because there are people out there who aren't you. a lot of them. and you don't drive like... whoa. i don't want my child being raised by a robot! other drivers are not you.

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good morning, welcome back to morning joe weekend. let's dive right into some more of the weekend's top

conversations. so, lisa and ruben, it was fascinating first of all the supreme court for those oral arguments yesterday. listening to the untrained ear, it sounded like the justices are skeptical, to say the least, they claim that a president, any president, has blanket immunity, absolute immunity for anything he or she does in office. but some of the conservative justices did seem open to kicking it back down to the trial court. what was your read on what we heard yesterday? >> that we are not going to see a trial in the court for any time soon for the reasons you stated. the conservative justices seem to be moving away from trump's claim of blanket immunity. that is a good thing at-large. but the idea that we would then have to have the proceedings to determine which of the allegations in the indictment pertain to official act, versus private act. by the way, i should note that trump's lawyer did concede that certain of the conduct alleged here does amount to private

conduct. the idea that judge child can though, would, on remand, have to have a series of hearings, or many trials, as our colleague, andrew weissman said, to determine that, before taking this case to trial, that puts this case on the calendar, where it almost certainly cannot be tried before the election and potentially, depending on what happens at the election, not happen at all. >> and barbara mcquaid, we heard the hypothetical again yesterday of, what if a president decided that the navy seal team six should assassinate one of its political opponents? with that fall under the presidential immunity that you are talking about? mr. sauer there, representing donald trump. so, we had that discussion again, which is running that we are even suggesting that. what was your read of the way things played out yesterday, and what we may hear next? >> well, as mr. sauer said to that question, that hypothetical, it would depend

on the situation. wow, e gads, that is terrifying. my read is that there are several justices, the women justices, who are ready to go, that they think that the idea that, perhaps there is some presidential immunity for some official act, but that the acts alleged in this indictment are not those acts and let's go already. in fact, justices barrett and kagan were really pinning down john sauer on trying to say, this is a private act right? you would agree this is a private act? using allegations in the indictment. i think they couldn't pin him down to avoid further delay. certainly, there are some justices, who think further delay is necessary. i think the real linchpin here will be chief justice, roberts, who, on one hand, did suggest this idea that it would be a one legged stool to allow only the private acts and not have any reference to the official acts. so, there's a little room, i think, for arguing that the

crimes here are not official acts, but you need some evidence of official acts to understand the context. and the example chief justice roberts used was bribery. it might be an official act to appoint an ambassador, but if you do that in exchange for money, a bribe, that could still be a crime. but i think, as lisa said, at the end of the day it seems necessary to probably sort out what is and what is not an official act here. and most notably, the conduct relating to the department of justice and using them, or abusing them, could be deemed an official act. but jack smith still has one trick up his sleeve, i think, which is to pair down the indictment and use only the things that are clearly private acts here. >> john meacham, it was extraordinary to listen yesterday to the urgency. donald trump's attorney had of talking about the need for absolute presidential immunity, when we have had what? 235 years worth of presidents

who didn't really need to lean on this. they had no occasion to call for absolute immunity. 45 other presidents. what you make of what we are hearing play out in the supreme court on the larger scale? in terms of presidency itself? >> it is a master class in the complexities of a presidential office that is this inherently powerful and an office that is -- it is inherently powerful that has become more so over time. particularly since world war two and the new deal. when the manhattan project produced atomic weapons, the president of the united states became, arguably the most important person in the history of humanity. because the power to destroy is so-- it is invested in one person. so, immense questions here. i thought the argument were

fascinating. i would, of course. but, i think it was a fairly-- you know, you would expect this. it was a mature, interesting, largely evidence-based-- interesting hypotheticals. conversation about the practical application of a kind of character, we will put it this way. the ongoing, the unfolding implications of having a character in the oval office who is more at risk of committing these kinds of crimes than not, if that makes sense. the key thing here was, i think it is just a score should said, we are deciding this for the ages. now, that is interesting, because they didn't decide row for the ages, we will leave that aside for the moment. there is this incredibly

important question about with this cycle of political prosecutions result from a-- no immunity claim? i thought the answer, on behalf of the government, was pretty compelling, which is, this is an extraordinary case. and for anybody following this, just in a peripheral way, to me, the most important thing that was asked was from justice stoudemire, who asked rhetorically, i would say, isn't it true that our democratic institutions depend on the character of the people within those democratic institutions. that is we heard the justices for a long time today talking about, as they should, lawyers, about every conceivable iteration of everything, trying to create doctrines that would stand up to most of those. in the very end, what it comes down to is the character of the

person we send to the pinnacle of power and their willingness to bend and break norms and laws. and what we had in 2020 and 2021, with the failure to peacefully transfer power was we had someone, whose character was not commensurate to that standard and that is something that no court can legislate. we have to pick the right person. >> in some of the coverage i watched from here yesterday, consternation, you know? i am not a lawyer, i certainly felt it in some of the questions you saw from the conservative justices about that seemed to be making the defenseless argument for it. seems to be making excuses for president trump. how should we, you know, how should we look at these-- at what we-- how we saw some of the conservatives justices and the questions-- the kind of

questions they were asking yesterday? >> i think we should look at it as a form of avoidance. there were, embedded in some of the questions that the conservative justices were asking, a desire to avoid the facts of this case. and that goes back, even to the very question presented here. the question presented in any supreme court case is what is the issue that the supreme court is going to decide? and they could have to find that fairly narrowly here in a way that would have been circumscribed to the facts alleged in the indictment. in that, the question was whether, and if so, to what extent, former presidents are entitled to immunity for their official acts, where there are criminal charges against them. that is a very broad question, and you saw a number of the conservative justices, sort of reaching beyond the facts of the indictment to try and pose a series of ever escalating hypotheticals. at one point, justice alito saying, i don't want to talk about this particular case. the question i would ask is why not?

this is the case before you. and one of the most simple and democracy enhancing things this court could have done would be to say, there may be circumstances in which presidents are entitled to immunity, but this indictment, as alleged here, doesn't constitute one of those scenarios. and we, as a court can can always visit it if and when the facts present themselves to us that would cause us to have a different conclusion. morning joe weekend continues after a short break. e because liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, right? i've been telling everyone. baby: liberty. did you hear that? ty just said her first word. can you say “mama”? baby: liberty. can you say “auntie”? baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪ they need their lawn back fast and you need scotts turf builder rapid grass.

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president biden met with 4- year-old, abigail, the youngest american hostage by hamas. the president posted photo to social media, writing, last year we secured the release of abigail, a 4-year-old who was being held by hamas. she is remarkable and recovering from unspeakable trauma. our time together yesterday was a reminder of the work we had in front of us to secure the

release of all remaining hostages. the president, meeting with abigail more than an hour from the white house. meanwhile, the united dates and 17 other countries are demanding hamas release more than 130 people being held hostage in gaza. a joint statement, world leaders right in part, the fate of the hostages and the civilian population in gaza were protected under international law is of international concern. the leaders call for a deal that would, not only secure the hostages released, but also a prolonged cease-fire. qatari officials have been mediating talks between israel and hamas. they say some progress has been made, but the leader of hamas vetoed the latest proposal. that deal would have included a six week truce in exchange for hundreds of palestinian prisoners for dozens of sick, elderly and wounded hostages. joining us now, president emeritus of the council of foreign relations, richard haas, author of the weekly newsletter, home and away, available on sub stack.

richard, good morning, a lot to talk about today. let's start right there with the hostages in israel. not sure if a strongly worded letter is going to compel hamas, given that it is a terrorist difficulty doesn't seem willing to negotiate anything reasonable at all to release the hostages. but what you make of the collective statement made by world leaders and what progress might there be getting these hostages home? >> i'm really sorry to say that i agree with you here, and i think this call is going to resonate, to put it gently. i am also in a serious and really tragic way, i don't know anyone who feels most of the hostages are still alive, and that is probably one of the principal reason that hamas is being so tough here, being so difficult in not wanting them to have this, if you will, exposed. you know, the conditions they constantly put out an exchange are high. they want to end the occupation. so, i don't think this is

moving towards either a quick resolution or a positive resolution. >> jen, we got that video yesterday, that gutwrenching video of hirsch goldberg pulling his mom yesterday, rachel, who has been so extraordinary through all of this, giving some hope that he is alive and that he may come home someday soon. doing what he can, obviously we saw him doing what he does best yesterday as she climbed around the resolute desk. what more pressure can the president apply, not necessarily hamas, who is a reasonable party in this, but on qatar and other nations who might have some influence. >> it does-- i mean, it has this sort of dreaded sense of treading water at this point, and you see it across the country and campuses, really igniting and protests and the president, having-- they are very aware of what kind of politics they are dealing with, but at the same time, the most

important thing is to try to take whatever they can to push towards some sort of cease- fire, and it does-- i mean, it does i want to go back to richard about this, because it does just sort of feel like it is at-- sort of like, not even an impasse richard, but a disturbing status quo low. >> it won't last for long. i think it is more of when, not if israel goes into rough a. i see plans being made influence the biden administration is not whether israel goes down, but how it uses military force. when it goes in. when we are looking at passover potentially months focused, lower-level israel and military operation i would be opposed, i'm optimistic, not just about

hostages, but anything like a prolonged cease-fire, i just don't see it. funnily enough, the deal on iran, where the israelis avoided doing anything big in retaliation for iran i think that pressure on net tonight netanyahu doing something fairly muscular in rafah. up next, salman rushdie reflect on how the knife attack changed his life and the healing process. healing process. than j ust seed . giving you a stronger lawn. smell that freedom, eh? get scotts turf builder rapid grass today, it's guaranteed. feed your lawn. feed it. can neuriva support your brain health? mary, janet, hey!! (thinking: eddie, no frasier, frank... frank?) fred! how are you?! fred... fuel up to 7 brain health indicators, including your memory. join the neuriva brain health challenge. known as a loving parent.

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(♪♪) try dietary supplements from voltaren, for healthy joints. author and activist, salman rushdie, has spent a lifetime fighting for his work. first, living in fear for decades, after the leader of iran issued against him in 1989, over his critically acclaimed novel the satanic verses. then, two years ago, when salman rushdie was attacked and nearly killed giving an

interview in new york, the attacker stabbed him dozens of times, ultimately causing the award-winning author to lose sight in one eye. in his new memoir, knife, meditations after an attempted murder, it is not only a personal recount of that they, but his personal journey of recovery that followed. and salman rushdie joins us now. thank you so much for coming on the show, and for writing this book. >> thank you. >> despite the title and the event that inspired it, this is a book about healing, and in a way, a love story. and you told pbs it is the story of the knife attack. but you started to think of it in another way. a more metaphorical way. like language is kind of a knife? it is also a tool that you could use to cut through things. like a truce. could you bring us through how

writing this book impacted you? help you? brought you to where you are today? >> to begin with it it was very hard to write. especially the first chapter in which the actual details of the attack are given in great detail, kind of gory detail. that was very hard, emotionally difficult to write. but once i got past that it got easier, and it kind of began to flow more smoothly. people have asked me if it was therapeutic. i wouldn't say exactly therapy, because i have therapy, you know? therapy is therapy and writing is writing it but what it did do is give you a feeling of taking control of the narrative, of making it mine that i'm telling my way. and that felt good. >> so, solomon, telling your story, the difficulty and

recounting what happened to you , you were asked death store? >> yes. >> what was it like knowing that you could die. you were badly wounded, knowing that you could die and then writing about it now. >> it was very clear that i was going to die when i was lying on the floor with blood pouring out of me you know? that was the thought that came to my mind i thought, you know, this is probably it. and one of the things i wanted to try and show in this book, because as my editor said to me, not many people have a really near-death experience and then come back to tell the story. so could at least tell the story . and i thought one of the things that was interesting did not happen. nothing supernatural about it. no tunnel of light, no, kind of feeling lifting out of your body . in fact i've really felt so connected to my body.

a very physical experience and not at all metaphysical. >> do you remember who, if anyone who thought of anyone close to you there? >> feeling that i was dying far away from the people that i loved and kind of in the company of strangers. it was a feeling of loneliness. you know? that here i am by myself in a strange place with strange people around me. and everybody i care about is far away. that was the worst part. >> you and i have known each other a long time and i remember knowing you right after and i always thought of you as a person who would not-- who was brave, and who was not-- who did not you had security--

what you stilted stuff. right when it happened it has caught up with me now. can you talk a little bit about your trajectory and then what happened? >> well it was lipsitz started in 1989. the next nine years were kind of maximum-security period. but i came to new york city almost 25 years ago now. and for 23 of those 25 years life was pretty normal. i was living the kind of life that rises cut off. i was doing book tours for long periods of writing. and it felt as if the trouble has passed. i genuinely did think that. so, when this man came out of cryo- and run at me, i say it felt kind of anachronistic.

like a time warp, like something from an earlier age cropping up in the present. and it was quite a real-- was obviously very him pleasant but very surprising. >> i will try to make a linkage here, but you are a writer, who has frequently put his own life in danger for the cause of writing. we are in a position in the states where a major literary award is being canceled, because half of the writers have withdrawn submissions, because of the war in gaza and i just wonder how you feel about that, what it tells you about the situation you are in in the state we are in in the moment, where everything is so hot and divided and angry that a literary award. and i don't know-- maybe you feel that these are writers, nobly standing up for gaza and something has to be done for

human suffering, and maybe what are they doing, this isn't actually going to help anyone and we need to carry on with our art and the process of writing? >> yeah, you know, i understand all of the anger, but i think it is very sad that i feel sorry for writers being nominated for these awards, many of whom could do with the money, frankly. and i don't-- it is one thing to be-- it is legitimate to say that america has not spoken up as it should and protesting about that, everybody has that point to protest. but i don't see why writers from around the country nominated for prestigious prizes why they should be made the kind of fall guys but i-- that is sad. coming up, nyu business school professor, scott galloway joins us for his take on the protest rocky colleges and universities across the nation. in 99% of people ove

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joining us now, professor of marketing at nyu stern school of business, scott galloway. he is out today with the new book, entitled the algebra of health. a simple formula for financial security. you have to be good at algebra? >> no. >> what if you have to take it two or three times? that is a problem right?

scott? scott. >> i do it. >> it will be a long and winding road to get your book. because there's things, i am a big fan of yours. there's some things i want to talk about first. one of my pet peeves seems to be one of your pet peeves and that is, you know, 2 million people have been killed in this event i could see protest that nyu for that. hassan killed 500 arabs, identity colleges per down 500,000 colleges killed by is on. saddam hussein killed over 1 million muslims in wars, i didn't-- gassed them. i did see protest there. yet your school is shut down because israel is responding to the worst attack against juice, worldwide since the holocaust, >> we can debate that response but -- >> again, i don't know algebra, but i'm pretty good at the

common denominators here. and why there is no common denominators and all of these it is just that it is jews defending their homeland, because if you look at the numbers , even with america wars, they don't add up. >> first off, it is good to be with you and i appreciate your relationship on your numbers. 2200 american servicemen killed at pearl harbor. we go on to kill three and half million japanese we go on to kill 400,000 people in afghanistan and iraq we weren't accused of genocide. you had-- if mexico had elected a jihadist cartel to run their country and on a per capita basis killed 35,000 people in a population of the university of texas, and on the way back took a freshman class at mi you hostage what would we do? it would be the great sonora whittier radioactive parking lot. but jews are not allowed and

israel is not allowed to prosecute a war, they are prosecuting the war more humanely than we are doing. the ratio of combatants to civilians is civilian death to combatant mortality is lower than it was in japan, lower than it was in germany. so, there is just days different standard for jews in israel when it comes to prosecuting a war. they are allowed to fight back in interest, but unlike america and any other it is a double standard. >> really, i have set on this show consistently worker 16 years, even before this heinous hamas attack, said on this show for 16, 17 years, if what is done to israel, with missiles being fired into israel consistently by hamas, if that were done from mexico into texas , we would be in mexico city, our tanks-- they would. we would be surrounding mexico

city by nightfall. we just wouldn't put up with it, and no country would. >> yeah, especially after what we saw on october 7th. and scott, we are talking, as you sat down about what is happening on your campus, in columbia two very different scenes, i think, based on what you're telling me about nyu. but what a lot of what we are hearing during these protest, and yes there are outside agitators, isn't even about the war so much, it is this just open-- this floodgate of anti- semitism that, somehow october 7th gave people cover to come out from under their rocks and just chant out loud the worst things you can say about jews, a lot of us on campuses don't protect the civilians in gaza, which we all agree needs to happen, but killed more jews is what we are hearing in these chance.

>> on october the sixth if someone had asked me the state of anti-semitism in the united dates i would've said it doesn't exist and i don't see it. this was a level of hate on an iceberg that was 99.9% below the waterline, but we didn't know the volume and i do think there is a double standard. i walked by nyu last night what i saw was peaceful protests. but i can tell you, if i went into the nyu square and said which the black sorber in the case, my idea would have been shut off by night. there would be no need for the context or nuance. i wouldn't be protected by first amendment or free speech. i would be out of the world. it seems like we have a double standard, when it comes to hate speech, as long as it is against jews. >> and we are not just talking about the exercising of free speech and protest, which we agree people have, and there are spaces on campus like that, it is what they are saying, it is the harassment of jewish students. so what is that? why is there that double standard?

of course you are right, you don't even have to say it out loud, if these things were being set about black people are people or anything else, shut down the school everybody is expelled, why is there still that double standard? >> i think it is complicated. one, young people have a healthy reflects on what people our age thing. i think that is healthy. i don't think it has put itself in glory the last 20 or 30 years, they have shifted from being david to the glia. i also think incorrectly students on campus conflate the civil rights movement with what is going on in palestine and had digressed, unfortunately, because of the unorthodox he promoted by me and my colleagues that there are oppressors and oppressed, the easiest way to identify professors is how white or rich they are, and how fairly or unfairly, is really seen as 0 for whiteness, and i think we are being manipulated, specifically use, to frame the world through tiktok, and if you look at 50 tiktok, there are 50 videos that are pro-hamas

for every video that is pro israel. i think americans are easier to fool, but if i were the ccp i would be doing the exact same thing. i think social media is sowing a vision of polarization. >> we are allowing the communist chinese. we really, we are allowing the communist chinese to shape the debate. good children, i am glad the bill passed in the house. scott. one final thing, and then i promise we will get to your book. i will just say this and then i will go far afield in another direction. but, you have this argument that european colonists have somehow-- this is colonization in israel. no, israel was created three years after we discovered that european colonists gassed 6 million jews. so, the conflation of jews, who were-- you know, european jewry

was got it. you can look at the numbers before the war, after the war, go country by country, and it was just absolutely horrifying. so, this whole idea of trying to throw this on europe is, again, it is pure madness. >> well if-- jordan was coordinating antimissile drone technology, coordinating with israel, the king of saudi arabia ended up in support of israel. i would ask these far enough group on campus, what do their air of brothers and sisters know that you don't. and this is, you know, like i said, i absolutely have never seen anything like it. it is rattling to jews across the nation, and i would like to think that america is steadfast here. i think the biden administration has done a great job. but i think young people, over

time, will look back and regret their views on it, and again i think there's outside forces going on here. next, a woman who spent more than two decades working as a chief of staff to president, george h.w. bush. jean becker joins us with her book on why character matters. acter matters. ok y'all we got ten orders coming in.. big orders! starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant.. that's a different story. i couldn't slow down. we were starting a business from the ground up. people were showing up left and right. and so did our business needs. the chase ink card made it easy.

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one of the through lines to what we have been discussing is the notion of character. it is really going to be playing out in the trial that we are watching this week. running as now is a woman, who spent more than two decades working as a chief of staff to the 41st president. jean becker, the author of a new book, entitled character matters. and other life lessons from george h.w. bush. and it is great to have you on the show, jean. i love the timing for this book. i feel like it is going to remind people of the greatest

parts of public service, whether you are a democrat or republican. i think that is fair to say. george h.w. bush, character matter to him and his administration. >> good morning. i am so honored to be with you all this morning. and boy, timing is everything. and i have been sitting here, trying to figure out how to make this book mandatory reading for every single person in washington, d.c. and if you all have any good ideas i would love to hear them. but the book is all about character, and president bush's leadership skills. one of my favorite quotes in the book is from former british prime minister, john major, who says that working with george bush was like taking a master class in leadership. >> and his relationships. he worked on them. whether he needed them or not, whether they were timely or not, this was something that was important

to his leadership. can you tell us a little bit about that? >> he was famous for calling heads of state every single day, just to check in. and not just the heads of state of our major allies, the g7 countries, for example. but he would call heads of states in africa, in south america, and just say, how are you doing today? what is going on in your country? and what of one of the best paragraphs in the book, i think , is from vice president, dick cheney, who writes the definitive essay about desert storm. and he talks about bringing the coalition of countries together for that, for desert storm. and how all of these heads of state already had a relationship with him. but vice president, then defense secretary cheney, flew to saudi arabia to talk with the king about allowing american troops on saudi soil, and at the end of his pitch to the king, the king looked at

him and simply said, yes. because i trust george bush. >> john meacham has the next question. meacham? >> so, you all should know that president bush once said that he could not adequately express his thanks to jean becker for all she did for him. and i think that is an enduring truth. jean, this is-- you did a marvelous man more about your postpresidential years with him. and you wanted to do this as well. what about this moment makes president bush so relevant? >> first of all, good morning, john. it is great to see you. you know, this book was actually my editor's idea. i am sort of embarrassed to admit that, because it is brilliant. he wanted me to write another book about president bush. and i looked at him, when he brought it up and i said, you

do remember he died at the end of the last book? and he said, i don't think we are-- which is true. but he said i don't think we are done with him, jean. i think there is so much we can learn from him. and so, i-- what i did is, i reached out to all of the people who knew him best. that would include john meacham. and i said, what did you learn from him? what can you-- can you send me your thoughts? i think 156 people contributed to this book, and it is everybody, from john major and brian laurenti, bob gates and secretary baker wrote the forward to bill clinton and nancy pelosi, to reba mcintyre, to the gardener at walker's point. and the timing of the book, you really can't make this up. it's perfect. and i am getting emails and text send calls from all over the country, from people who are

reading the book and just so grateful for its positive message at this time. >> the new book is entitled character matters, and other life lessons from george h.w. bush. jean becker, your publisher was right, 100%. thank you so much for doing this , and congratulations on the book. and john meacham, thank you as well. coming up, a new broadway play documents the rise of vladimir putin, from the mayor of st. petersburg to one of the longest-running leaders in russian history. russian history. the day. what people don't know is that not all dirt is the same. you need dirt with the right kind of nutrients. look at this new organic soil from miracle-gro. everybody should have it. it worked great for us. this is as good as gold in any garden. if people only knew that it really is about the dirt. you're a dirt nerd. huge dirt nerd. i'm proud of it! [ryan laughs]

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honest, hard-working russians are starving, while a handful of kleptocrats are not just rich, but insanely rich, richer than the state itself, it is wrong. >> wrong. wrong. right, wrong. am i dreaming? am i really being lectured on morality by a kgb hack? >> the state must claim its assets and its authority, a country cannot be run by business businessmen, foreign policy cannot be determined by a business. >> by whom then? politicians? don't make me laugh. when was the last time you saw a politician you truly respect anywhere? never!

>> there's a look at the new broadway play, patriots, following the complicated relationship between russian plan president, vladimir putin, and one of his earliest political supporters, oligarch, boris. he began his financial backing of putin in the 1990s, only to see his political creation amass a level of power and vindictiveness that he would ultimately be able to unable to control. joining me now are the costars, any golden globe and emmy nominated actor, michael stewart, and actor, will keen, as well as director, rupert gould. gentlemen, great to have you with us, i understand there's so much buzz in this town about this play, and maybe let's start with a 30,000 foot view of the story. it is your show, as director. what was interesting to you, as you said about the relationship between these two men? >> i think the whole world is fascinated with putin over the last 20 years, but particularly the ukraine war.

and our story is, in some senses, an origin story about how this relatively anonymous deputy mayor from st. peter petersburg became the most powerful leader in the world in some ways, and it is kind of a secret history about this man, who michael plays, who was the kingmaker in the process and kind of the unwitting creator of, i guess what many people will now see is a monstrous figure. and it looks at the 90s in russia, which is an extraordinary moment, with the soviet union had just collapsed and was this sort of wild west of mafia gangsters and businessmen, and new conflating ideologies to determine what russia was going to be. >> so, when rupert calls and says we would like you to step in and play the most despised man in the world you thought what? >> i was very excited. >> yes. so, what has it been like to step into his shoes? >> it is an incredible, sort

of, privilege and challenge. and it is really wonderful to be in something, which feels such a vivid daily conversation and feels like it is changing every day, because of the filter of the news, and slightly alters the stories every day. so, it is a lovely thing to do. >> michael, your character throwing elbows in the collapse of the soviet union. there is no telling, at that period in done, which way it is going to go. you are dealing with someone, who you regard as a protigi, we refer to as a kgb hack how do you get into that role? i mean, who you talk to? what you do for research to get into that role? >> you look at as much as you can about who the real person was. i watched interviews with boris. i watched one in particular, a frontline interview he did not long before he died. died.

what happened exactly to him. but you acouple late as much information as you can, and you make choices but this is also peter morgan's version of this particular story and he has streamlined the story to keep the audience guessing about certain questions like that as well. there's a lot of information out there and we do our best to, to find our way through it and tell this compelling story. >> that's all for today, we will be right back tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. eastern. stay tuned for msnbc's the weekend and enjoy the rest of your saturday. enjoy the rest o your saturday. good