similar things that i did, being manipulated people out there experiencing similar things that i did. being manipulated, and being abused, were scared to leave. >> those people might not have a good one looking out for them and writing up with a white hat and a posse. >> but there are white hats out there, there are. there are a lot of people who care. maybe i can help somebody. at least i want to. some light has to come out from all of his darkness. hello, i am andrea canning, and this is dateline. something wasn't right at

our house. i saw a lot of police cars. that woman was a fighter. she would never leave her daughters. she would never do it. >> michelle around the home, she was very proud about that, she was able to ends meet good >> they are wonderful girls, they were amazing. s, >> the end came a much too soon. >> she's madison motionless, and i'm concerned. >> there appeared to be a body hanging from the banister. at first look, it appeared to be a suicide. >> but then they looked closer. >> there appeared to be a struggle, they were telling me, there is something wrong here. expected someone want michelle that? a bond forged in blood. >> could you cry? >> i. >> we called the conversation. >> betrayed by blood. >> what are you hoping for? >> some conversation between the two of of them about the

death. >> we looked at video surveillance, and he goes to my don't like what i am saying. >> your theorizing the darkest > scenario? >> yes i am. evil. >> ♪ hello, and welcome to >> dateline. michelle and lloyd were high school sweethearts who tied the knot three years later. but michelle and lloyd remained devoted to their girls, then michelle was found dead in her home. at first police suspected suicide, but soon the case tooko a chilling turn. at the heart of this mystery was a betrayal too twisted to be true. except that it is. here is dennis murphy, with the ultimatum. >> the long road to prima ballerina, the dreams of thunderous bravos, the cascade

of roses, begins with the youngest of dancers in a school of two dude 10-year-olds. >> it is very disciplined. >> an athletic discipline of concentration and body control, learning poise under pressure. >> it took a lot, especially when we were young, to stick with it, but it was worth it >> a ballet academy in upstate new york, is where nina got to know her friend, terry neurauter. >> i got to know carrie when she was eight, she was very sweet, very bubbly personality. >> both of them were girly girls, but wanted to grow up to be like their dads. >> our debts were both engineers, so we were both going to become engineers. >> professional ballerinas on the side. >> everyone could see that kerry's was very close to her dad, lloyd neurauter. not only would he drive his ld order to class, he would stay and help out. y >> he was the only father there that was bringing the kids in the morning at that time.

>> nina's mom, cynthia would see him on those saturdays, but rarely his wife. >> he would always sort of bring them there and brush in their hair out and put these funds together. >> yes, and he definitely enjoyed the admiration of the jo other mothers around him. >> as their daughters rehearsed for the annual nutcracker, cynthia and another friend, rose, became friendly with lloyd. >> lloyd was, i would say, eccentric. always the center of attention. >> of course, we eventually asked about his wife, and he said that saturdays were her only days off. >> lloyd's wife, michele, had a full plate of her own. she had a masters degree in literature, but chose to be a full-time mob, homeschooling their kids, and taking an active role in charity work. here she is, making thanksgiving dinner for the needy at their local church. >> it would be really odd to

have thanksgiving at home, just us, and not be here. thanksgiving is celebrating with the community, giving back. >> michele had met lloyd in high school. her mom, jeannie, remember a teenage boy, who was smitten from the first date. >> i think she thought he was intelligent and she could have intelligent conversations with him. >> so, maybe a peg above the kids at school in her circle? >> yes. yes. >> the high school sweethearts married when michele was just 20. they were letter single into a farmhouse and have three girls,a carrie, the middle child. michele's younger sister also named carrie, admired her so much. >> she always wanted the best for her girls. she was always very supportive, because, of course, b when i had children i asked her all my questions and looked up to her. i always looked up to her. >> though they lived coasts apart, michele's sister and her husband were close to their nieces.

>> the oldest one really bonded with kevin, and karrie and i rr very much bonded. >> but as with so many people, the nitrite her family ran into lean times, diminished prospects, during the great recession. lloyd moved out of state to find work about an engineer. >> what happened is lloyd-- it was a tough time in courtney, new york. and he took a job in new jersey. >> michele stayed behind, with the girls come out in the country , but the separation put a strain on the marriage, ra and in time, michele and lloyd divorced. >> she was always positive, going to make the most of everything, and then one day out of the blue she called me and said, we are divorced. okay. >> it was very random. >> after the divorce, michele sold the farm and the kids split up. the oldest wants to live with their dad in new jersey, carry on the youngest daughter state with mom in a new house. but the divorce was hard on

everyone. karrie and her mom sometimes butted heads, the arguments could get heated. >> she was living with her mother, and finishing high school, but it got more and more strained as the years-- as she approached her senior year. >> by late august, 2017, karrie, the one time ballerina, had left home and was a sophomore at rit in rochester. her younger sister still lived with her mom. it seemed like a typical monday afternoon,al a family friend ca by the house to pick up the youngest for swim practice. but something looked very wrong. he g called 911. >> she is motionless and i'm concerned. >> the friend said he called glimpse a shadowy senior female figure on the stairway. >> she is standing there, not moving. it is kind of dark in there. >> something very dark had happened in that house, and when the curtain was pulled back it would reveal a monstrous story, like something out of a greek tragedy, with ank ending no one could fathom.

>> this is absolutely ghoulish. >> yeah. coming up. >> there appeared to be a body hanging inside the door about 15-20 feet, hanging from the banister. >> this is, as they say, a house known to law enforcement. >> and something was missing. >> no 14-year-old was discovered. >> where is this child? >> that is one of the concerns. >> when dateline continues. nue new herbal essences sulfate free. packed with pure aloe and camellia flower oil your hair will love. and none of the things it won't. hair that feels deeply nourished, soft and lightweight. new herbal essences.

sometimes your work shirt needs to be for more than just work. like when it needs to be a big, soft shoulder to cry on. which is why downy does more to make clothes softer, fresher, and better. downy. breathe life into your laundry. some people just know there's a better way to do things. like bundling your home and auto insurance with allstate. yeah, she knows. and some people... don't. like... come on. yikes! ughh... no. you know, there's a better way. save time and money by bundling your home and auto with allstate. you're in good hands with allstate.

i don't want you to move. and auto with allstate. i'm gonna miss you so much. you realize we'll have internet waiting for us at the new place, right? oh, we know. we just like making a scene.

transferring your services has never been easier. get connected on the day of your move with the xfinity app. can i sleep over at your new place? can katie sleep over tonight? sure, honey! this generation is so dramatic! move with xfinity. dennis murphy (voiceover): august 28, 2017, police officers responded to the home of divorced mom

michele neurauter. >> august 20th, 2017, police officers responded to the home of divorced mom, michele . a friend of hers and called 911 to report a disturbing site. >> there appeared to be a body, hanging inside the door about 15, 20 feet, hanging from the banister. >> police chief, jeff spaulding, said his officers got in and found the body. a woman with a rope tied around her neck. it was michele. >> apparently a suicide? >> from first look at appeared a suicide. >> no reason to think not? >> no. >> officer searched the home. they found no suicide note. daughter, karrie was away at college. but the youngest who lived with michele was nowhere to be found. >> no 14-year-old was discovered. >> where is this child? >> that was one of the concerns. >> it turns out the youngest was with karrie at school in rochester 100 miles away. police learned that when karrie

called them herself when a friend gave her the shocking news. >> we are looking into it. can you give me any insight into what might have happened? >> i don't know. i decided to go home. >> karrie told police she had stopped by the house that night. >> when i got there we were freaking out. >> in karrie's words, they had a fight, her mom went yelling and screaming. >> karrie told investigators she stormed out of the house, taking her teenage sister with her. not all that unusual. police learned that raised voices in that household were sent. a bad divorce, with kids caught in the middle. >> this is, as they say, a house known to law enforcement? >> yes. >> over the years, there have been what? 911 call to the location? >> probably in the course of three years, a dozen, a little over a dozen years. >> even with that fragmented history, mother and daughter inside the house, something is

going on, it does maybe give you an explanation of why it is death by suicide? >> exactly. >> investigators also got in touch with michele's ex- husband, lloyd, who lived in new jersey. he was rushing to upstate new york to be with his daughters. >> the last time i spoke with her, i couldn't even say. >> lloyd told the detective, by phone, he wasn't completely surprised to hear the news. he said that, despite her cheery demeanor, michele had actually contemplated suicide in the past. >> from before we were married, she made-- she made suicide plans with high school friends, and there was something that alarmed me way back then. >> police continue to process the scene. while michele's body was taken to the medical examiner for autopsy. >> what is she finding? >> the words again, consistent with suicide, are used. >> in a round of phone calls, michele's sister out in california got the news about the suicide. >> when you first heard that, didn't make sense in any kind of way to you? maybe she had gotten in a better place? >> i mean, i knew that she had

been fighting, with the girls. i-- i really thought like, maybe she had a bad moment. >> then she had to relay the awful news to their boy. >> they said michele died. and i said, no she didn't. i said, no, she didn't, that they like, don't say that. i said, don't tell me, don't say that. >> the friends, back in corning, could hardly take it in. michele, gone, and by her home own hand. >> my mom told me, she didn't want me to see it online or social media before i heard it from her. >> and you went to see her? >> i did. i went home. it was so shocking. >>'s funeral arrangements began, michele's friends were haunted by a question made just months before her death. >> she said, well, promise me that if anything ever happens to me that you will look out for my daughters. and then i reassured her,

naovely perhaps, that she was going to live a long life, but she was pretty persistent, and so i said, okay. and we left it like that. >> sorry, she got me with that story. >> but even in their grief there was confusion and doubt. the french thought the michele they saw in their final days was anything but suicidal. >> what were her plans? was she forward-looking? >> constantly. we were always working on what was next. >> that wasn't where she was in her life? >> i would say she was a fighter, that woman was a fighter. >> on saturday morning, with the rest of us were lounging around in our sweatpants, she would say, is a good day, we are going to get up, we are going to get dressed and make the best of it. >> even if michele were suicidal, they could not see their friend hanging herself like that, in a way that her daughters could find her.

>> i thought of the means that females use for suicide, and i could find around 9% of females that actually hang themselves. the most popular option, by far, is pills. >> but michele's mood and statistics aside, they kept coming back to that lack of a suicide note. >> michele had a masters in english, as well as an mba. she was a prolific writer. michele would have written a note of explanation. so, once there was no note, i think-- >> agree. >> something is wrong. >> little did they know how wrong exactly this would turn out to be. coming up. maybe it wasn't suicide. >> apparent suicide, did that make any sense to you? >> no. >> my gut is telling me there is something wrong here. >> maybe it was murder. >> what she had on her chin didn't seem consistent with her hanging. it looks like scratch marks. maybe she is pulling out whatever is around her neck, trying to get it off.

you can see where her bed is pushed out of place. it appeared there was a struggle. >> when dateline continues. co with five ultra-sharp blades and water-activated serums for incredible glide. i feel the difference with every stroke. feel the power of smooth. [sneezes] can a can of lysol take care of my snotty sofa? can-do mildewy tiles? can-do - these? - yup, it's the can-do can. nothing kills more germs on more surfaces than lysol disinfectant spray. (psst! psst!) ahhh! with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily gives you long lasting non-drowsy relief. flonase all good. also, try our allergy headache and nighttime pills. to 50 years with my best friend. [sfx: gasp] [sfx: spilling sound] nooo... aya... quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty absorbs spills like a sponge. and is 2x more absorbent so you can use less.

bounty, the quicker picker upper.

and is 2x more absorbent so you can use less. dennis murphy (voiceover): police were investigating the hanging death of michele neurauter as a possible suicide, but they still needed to know more about her final weeks police were investigating the hanging death of michele neurauter as a possible suicide, but they still needed to know more about her final weeks and days. >> hey, how are you. >> good, just cautious about

how i approach a car. >> the deceased ex-husband, lloyd, who settled in new jersey, had rushed to upstate new york, after michele's body was found. now, sitting in a police car, he seemed eager to talk. >> how long has michele lived at the residence? >> about five years. >> okay. >> she bought that after we divorced. >> you told him about his early relationship with michele. >> we went to school together, we did everything together. so, i never thought like that, like oh, under some circumstance i will just walk away. >> what did you get divorced? >> we divorced august, 2012. so, actually that is help me-- >> he explained that while the divorce has been finalized years earlier, their custody issues were far from settled. they were still fighting over their youngest daughter. >> she wanted to live with me, a tantrum. >> lloyd suggested his ex-wife

was unstable, an emotional wreck. >> michele was screaming and furious . i know of that, from passive behaviors that there was an occasion where michele is having a tantrum, that she would open the door and scream things down the stairs and then slam her bedroom door and did that so many times she actually broke the door frame. from doing that. she was just completely out of control. >> but lloyd admitted his information was secondhand. he had heard the stories from his children. >> i don't even know if she was seeing anybody, well she was doing things with. she really pushed me out of her life. >> lloyd spoke with police for over an hour. as the interview ended, he had a question. when could the kids retrieve their stuff. >> is there any idea when the kids could get into the house to look at their stuff? >> if it were a simple suicide, the investigation wouldn't take long. but new york state investigator, eric hurd, who was among the first on the scene of a thought, not so

fast. >> my gut was telling me, there is something wrong here. >> it wasn't just cop intuition, there was physical evidence, in his experience, inconsistent with a suicide. starting with the position of the thin nylon rope on michele's body. >> on her chin, it did not seem consistent with a hanging. >> he noticed blooms on michele's had too. >> on her face you can see scratch marks, like maybe she is pulling out whatever is around her neck, trying to get it off. >> and then there was michele's friend, rose, she rushed up to the scene with something urgent to say. >> apparent suicide, does that make any sense to you? >> no. >> she told me, i know she is friends with me, she would never do this to herself. i was with her just the other night, we were having a great done, she would never do this. >> it is and evidence, it is a peace. >> it is not evidence at that point. >> when police formally interviewed the friends they got a different picture of michele and their divorce. they said lloyd was the crazy one, relentless with badgering his ex-wife with dried-up

custody fights. >> it was at their house and i think lloyd had just served a petition for child custody of the younger child. and she was frustrated, her life was looking very positive, and then this came up again. >> objective appraisal, or france taking sides. either way, they insisted michele wasn't a frazzled, out- of-control single mom . she was making the best of a bad situation. and dealing with an x, who demeaned her for years. >> basically everything she did was criticized. he made her feel she was really ugly. he made her feel that she couldn't make any right decisions, she was a lousy mother. that she couldn't do anything right. >> so, homicide versus suicide. on the one hand, the nasty divorce may have given michele plenty of reasons to be depressed and want her way out. but it was a video of michele's bedroom that caused director heard to think otherwise. >> you can see where her bed

was pushed out of place. >> he spent hours poring over the pictures. >> looking at the wall, kind of zooming in, you can see things that are maybe not visible-- >> didn't jump out at you. >> did jump out at first, but it looks like we see something that looks like what on the wall, so that was concerning to >> blood on the wall and a bed out of lace. to heard it pointed to only one scenario. >> it appeared that there was a struggle. >> he believed michele had been attacked. the suicide scene staged. at the house there was no sign of forced entry, nothing taken. and investigators theorized that a random intruder wouldn't bother arranging such an elaborate seen. >> an unknown intruder, when our man doesn't figure into it? >> no, never thought that. >> no, they thought. someone close to michele had to be responsible. >> so, what we do now is the question? >> yes. >> it was time to go looking for suspect's. investigators start with

the obvious suspect, michele's ex-husband, lloyd, and he had an alibi. coming up. >> he said he had been to rochester to help his daughter move into college, spent the night in the hotel, stayed in the hotel all night long. >> i think i have every receipt for the last seven days. >> michele likes to say things too. could the mistry be solved from beyond the grave? >> i started finding screenshots and text, daughter document it every thing. >> what was the narrative picture that came together for you? >> that she was constantly abused, emotionally abused, >> when dateline continues. lin so rich. so indulgent. it's new olay body wash. silky indulgent moisture.

bye bye, dry skin. hello glow in just 14 days. indulge. with olay body wash. (tammy) i used to smoke, i thought it helped relieve my stress. but then i had open heart surgery. my tip is, find healthy ways to cope with stress, because open heart surgery, it's pretty stressful. (announcer) you can quit. for free help, call 1-800-quit-now. this isn't charmin! no wonder i don't feel as clean. here's charmin ultra strong. ahhh! my bottom's been saved! with its diamond weave texture, charmin ultra strong cleans better with fewer sheets and less effort. enjoy the go with charmin. [coughing] copd hasn't been pretty. it's tough to breathe and tough to keep wondering if this is as good as it gets. but trelegy has shown me that there's still beauty and breath to be had. because with three medicines in one inhaler,

trelegy keeps my airways open and prevents future flare-ups. and with one dose a day, trelegy improves lung function so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful. norman, bad news... ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd i never graduated from med school. what? but the good news is... xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal... that's like $20 a month per unlimited line... i don't want to miss that. that's amazing doc.

mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? i am richard lee with a news update. the second week of former resident, donald trump busty hush money trail wrapped up testimony from three witnesses, including trent's executive assistant. court proceedings will resume tuesday.

and president joe biden and his administration spent the week rolling out new rules that would allow airlines and passengers for flight distraught disruptions. and reinstatement neutrality. and in an interview with howard stern, biden said he would be happy to debate trump. welcome back to dateline, i am andrea canning. what happened to michele neurauter. detectives spotted signs of a struggling michele's bedroom. now, investigators suspected her death had been staged to look like a suicide. they were eager to have another chat with michele's ex- husband, lloyd. meanwhile, a distraught family member was about to get a startling view into michele's final years. here again is dennis murphy, with the ultimatum. >> michele neurauter's mother

was still dealing with the loss of her elder child. and on top of that, grief was a long-standing sorrow. estrangement. michele had stopped talking to her mom years before. >> i mr., i love her, i did know what was going on, because we had never had a right. if we had a fight and hung up on each other, you know, we would get over it, but we did not have that fight. >> he needed know exactly what had gone on michele and lloyd's marriage, but she knew she never liked him. >> we are like, okay, she can do better than this, what does she see in him? >> looking back, what makes you say that? >> he was arrogant from the beginning. he was always arrogant, >> michele's sister agreed. >> he was like i am going to put you in your place. >> did you talk about how things were with her in lloyd. that is a no go topic.

>> michele's family says lloyd's my way or the highway attitude extended to the way he disciplined children. the doting ballet.wanted his girls to be a little too on point. >> he kind of raised his kids with a military bearing? >> yes. he would snap his fingers and they would line up and stand there like little soldiers. >> you would make them deal with their nose to the wall, hands behind their head like they were being executed. like -- >> sorry? for a minor household infection? >> for nothing sometimes. he would just be mad at them. >> after michele's death, jeannie flew out to the east coast to be with her granddaughters. that is when she finally learned just how bad things had become for michele. it was all there and her daughter's journals at boxes court papers. >> i started finding court documents and i started finding screenshots of text. my daughter documented everything. to death. >> what was the narrative picture that had come together for you of what had happened in

her life? >> that she was just constantly abused, emotionally abused. >> by her husband, lloyd? >> yes. >> you believe he ganged up the children against her? >> yes. >> michele's mother read how the unhappy marriage turned into an unhappy divorce. >> he was taking her to court over and over and over. >> the acrimony between lloyd and michele had been well known to michele's friends for years. they have seen it up close. if her death was a murder, the history mode of that marriage and divorce told them exactly what happened. >> when asked at the scene what i thought, my answer was i think he did it. >> the husband? >> absolutely. >> no problems? >> the very same lloyd who had calmly and clearly volunteered so much information to investigators. >> she was just completely out of control. >> demeanor? what are you hearing about? >> he was very cooperative. >> would you like me to move up a little? >> you are fine.

>> police had reason to believe michele died sometime after midnight, saturday, going into sunday. so, the question, where was lloyd? >> the way you came up-- >> to go to rochester. >> he told police he had driven up from new jersey to rochester to help carry move into her college apartment. >> she couldn't fit everything in the car, so i had to >> in princeton that i had to bring. so, when i arrived on saturday, i went to the apartment and i unloaded her white car. >> yeah. karrie's apartment. >> that he said he spent a night in a nearby hotel. >> yes. >> by yourself? >> yes. >> he said he had been to rochester to help his daughter move into college, spent the night in the hotel, stated the hotel all night long. >> lloyd's that he drove home the next day and only returned to the courted area after michele's body had been found. he could account for all of his movements. >> i think i have every receipt

from the last seven days. >> now they needed to put lloyd's timeline under a microscope. police pulled his phone records and guess what? his cell never left the hotel that night. so far, so good. and the story told by the phone, meant he couldn't be an hour and half south in court in, so police had to consider others and michele's inner circle, and that included the last known person to have seen michele alive . it was someone who had admitted in a phone call to police to fighting with michele that very night. her middle daughter, karrie. >> when i got there, my mom started freaking out. and she was yelling, and-- and then she got quiet. >> i know you are upset, but if you could take a breath for me, so that i can-- i can understand what you are saying a little better. >> yeah. yeah, okay i am sorry. >> sure, karrie sounded distraught, but the officer who first took down her account of that night didn't like what he was hearing.

>> he said, right away something is not right. >> what was he referring to? >> terry, specifically, was not telling the truth about what happened that night. coming up. >> you can see that she is at the house for like two hours. a lot longer than we anticipated her to be there. >> what was karrie hiding? >> the younger sister says i get woken and it sounds like somebody is in the house attacking my mom and her sister comes in the house and tells her, we have got to leave. mom is upset, she is really mad. >> when dateline continues. ont oh... stuffed up again? so congested! you need sinex saline from vicks. just sinex, breathe, ahhhh! what is — wow! sinex. breathe. ahhhhhh!

dennis murphy (voiceover): here's a truism, cops don't like to be lied to,

especially cops investigating an unsolved death here's a truism. cops don't like to be light to. especially cops investigating an unsolved death, like that of mom, michele neurauter. especially if they are suspicious that the victim's daughter is the one doing the lighting in a statement to investigators, karrie, the child, admitted that she had arrived at her mother's house, shortly before her death. >> she initially told us that she got there so she led us to believe this is a 18 or 20 minutes that her mom's house. >> the thing was her cell phone records that otherwise. >> you can see she is at the house for 2 hours. longer than we anticipated her to be there. >> was karrie hiding something after that argument? those who knew her best never considered karrie to be anything but honest. family friend, rose, was one of the first people to speak with karrie after michele was found. >> we set on the phone together

for about a half an hour and just cry. >> and nina said there was no way her smart and kindhearted friend would have played any kind of role in a murder. >> i could never picture her being violent. >> but police had a different technique, they remembered there being turmoil and michele's house. all those cars years earlier , had charting finally boiled over? and there was an year witness, of sorts. karrie's kid sister, the 14- year-old, had been sleeping down there is. she told the detective she remembers hearing screams. >> the younger sister says i get woken, it sounds like somebody is in the house attacking my mom. >> use that word? >> yes, she did. and her sister tells her, you have got to leave, mom is upset, she's really mad. >> karrie's story was way out of line. as hard as it was to wrap their heads around it, detectives were coming to believe that the college students daughter may have murdered her own mother. unthinkable.

>> this is her mother, i just keep coming back, this is her mother. >> her own mother. that to me was the most chilling part of this whole thing. >> but if it were true, the young woman was too petite, they thought, to have pulled it off alone. >> there was no way karrie could have physically carried out the act. if it was to be homicide, she would have needed some help. >> but from whom? they naturally looked to those closest to carry, and who is closer than her dad, lloyd? going back to those ballet school days. the cops also knew that lloyd had been in the area that weekend, helping carry move into her college apartment. >> the more detail you can tell us about things. >> but what about his apparently ironclad alibi, backed up by his cell phone records? that he never left his hotel that night? >> from 11:00 to 7:00 you are in the hotel? >> yes. >> investigator heard sent a colleague to spool through the security camera footage. >> he goes, i don't like what i am seeing. it looks like the data and carry left together about 10:00 that night.

>> what was that? the data and the daughter together? leaving? >> and when they fast forwarded the hotel security video, there was lloyd neurauter seen again, walking through the parking lot at 6:30 a.m., more than eight hours later. >> are you theorizing the darkest scenario, that dad and daughter are in on this thing together? >> yes we are. >> that is a monstrous theory. >> yes it is. >> authorities held their cards close to the best. county district attorney, brooks baker, was consulting, as investigator scott search warrants, so they could tap father and daughter's cell phones. >> where are you now, sweetie? >> i'm still back at the denny's. >> what are you hoping for? >> we are hoping for some kind of conversation of from the two of them about that, about money. >> hi. >> hi, sweetie, i'm sorry i didn't get your call right away. >> we didn't get much. >> investigators started to ratchet up the pressure,. >> is this carry neurauter.

>> yes, this is me. >> we had an investigator call from nypd to talk to gary, and the hope is that that would get a conversation going between lloyd and his daughter. >> i don't know-- if you had time to meet up with me, what your plans were. >> yeah. would you be able to talk on monday? >> okay. >> with her wire tickled, what karrie cultivate to her father with the latest. >> hi, sweetie. >> hey, so i just got off the phone with officer whatever from the corning police department. he called, he's like oh, you know, i just like to be face-to- face. >> you know, i'd-- i'd like you to not do that if you can avoid it. tell them, i'm sorry i've got-- i got a counseling appointment, back in new jersey tonight. i've got to get to my counseling appointment. and tell them, this has been really hard on me. >> yeah. >> could you cry? >> i might. >> we caught the lighting, precision, which is when all of our hackles went up.

>> he is telling his daughter to lie. >> like to investigators, and by the way, can you cry? >> you cry and say, i'm sorry, i have to go. god, it would be nice if it was just over. >> that would be the dream. >> well, that's really all i got to suggest right now. >> by now, investigators had a working theory of the crime. that it was probably not the data helping the daughter, but the reverse. that dad, they theorized, was the mastermind. but authorities lacked hard proof of anything. they needed more. after two more months of tapping the phones, they decided showtime had arrived. they would simultaneously appear unannounced to interview both terry and lloyd, in separate locations, and confront them directly. in late january, 2018, like commandos synchronizing their watches, they swooped down. >> nice to meet you. >> in new jersey, two of ai agents appear that lloyd's workplace. he agreed to meet with them in a conference room. the agents gave him an update in the case.

>> the medical examiner has determined it to be a homicide, not a suicide. >> oh my god. >> and in conjunction with that , i want to ask you: did karrie have something to do with her death? >> no. i just don't think karrie has it in her. to kill another person. >> can you think of something, whether it was-- things get out of hand, she gets in a fight, it's a self-defense thing. i mean, can you see that happening? with karrie? >> it's hard to imagine. but can i picture it? i can't. >> and instead of jumping and saying, no. this is my daughter, she would do something like that. but can i picture it? >> it is the longest pause in the entire time we talked. >> i can't. >> so, he is not pop up, lion protecting his cubbies here. >> no, he's sort of-- how do i toss her under the bus here.

>> lloyd had to realize the walls were closing in. still, the interview ended with handshakes. >> well, we appreciate you sitting down with us and interrupting your day and everything, so-- >> well, my goal is to help. >> the agents allowed lloyd's to leave after his very that day at the office. then they tailed him and listened and as he phoned his daughter. >> how are you? >> not great. >> i'm not great, either. >> 250 miles away, in syracuse, new york, daughter, karrie, had also been confronted by police. and she too had had a very bad day. what did she tell her inquisitors? coming up. after one staged suicide, with this would be real? >> there he is out on a ledge. five stories down. he's going to jump, he has got his phone and he wants to talk to his daughter. >> when dateline continues. tel

for your most brilliant smile, crest has you covered. ♪♪ (laughing) nice smile, brad. nice! thanks? crest 3d white. 100% more stain removal. crest. if you have wet amd, you never want to lose sight of the things you love. some things should stand the test of time. long lasting eylea hd could significantly improve your vision and can help you go up to 4 months between treatments. if you have an eye infection, eye pain or redness, or allergies to eylea hd, don't use. eye injections like eyla hd may cause eye infection, separation of the retina, or rare but severe swelling of blood vessels in the eye. an increase in eye pressure has been seen. there's an uncommon risk of heart attack

or stroke associated with blood clots. the most common side effects were blurred vision, cataract, corneal injury, and eye floaters. and there's still so much to see. if you are on eylea or a similar type of treatment, ask your retina specialist about eylea hd today, for the potential for fewer injections. so rich. so indulgent. it's new olay body wash. silky indulgent moisture. bye bye, dry skin. hello glow in just 14 days. indulge. with olay body wash. ♪ you're the one that i want ♪ nexgard® combo is the only monthly topical that protects against fleas, ticks, tapeworms, and more. use with caution in cats with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. nexgard combo,... ♪ you're the one that i want ♪ ...the monthly one-and-done you want. (coughing) next! stuck at the dmv, and i think i'm late on my car insurance. good thing the general gives you a break with flexible payment options.

let's get you a break while you wait. what is this place? this is our dmvip. vending machine charcuterie? is that guy getting a painted license? wait until the driving test. now that's a park job! for a great low rate, go with the general. when i was your age, we never had anything like this. for a great low rate, what? wifi? wifi that works all over the house, even the basement. the basement. so i can finally throw that party... and invite shannon barnes. dream do come true. xfinity gives you reliable wifi with wall-to-wall coverage on all your devices, even when everyone is online. maybe we'll even get married one day. i wonder what i will be doing? probably still living here with mom and dad. fast reliable speeds right where you need them. that's wall-to-wall wifi with xfinity.

dennis murphy (voiceover): karrie neurauter, who had always been on script about the night her mother died, said they'd had a fight, she'd left, carry neurauter, who had always been on script the night their mother had died said she left. >> can you tell us what you observed, what you remember? >> karrie quickly caved and admitted that she lied. her that had been with her. >> my dad was there.

wait-- that's a lie, i'm sorry. i went to the house and i like! to that. >> there was more. >> my dad went upstairs into my mind's room and she was like, what are you doing? like why are you here? and so she was yelling. and she was like, why? why? >> then it started to tumble out, the nightmare story. she told investigators, her dad , drowned in alimony and child support payments had given her an ultimatum, him, or her mom. >> it was something along the lines of, you know, he's out of money, he can't pay rent. he can't pay for stuff. basically, he was going to kill himself. or there was this way to make it so he wouldn't kill himself. which was telling my mom.

>> why, at the crossroads, did she decides to help him? she says, she saw no other alternative. >> when you guys first discussed it was supposed to look like a suicide? >> the first time he told me about this. >> that she told investigators what her father did. >> he said he was going to put a towel in her mouth so she to be quiet. and then put the rope around her neck and strangle her. >> karrie's job was to disable any security devices to distract her younger sister, sleep downstairs, totally unaware of what was going on. >> she woke up so i had to take her out i was freaking out i didn't know what was going on, and i'm like oh my god. >> no, we have the framework of the story together now. >> i mean, what a bombshell. what are you thinking when you are listening to this thing? >> we were shellshocked. >> at last, the authorities had enough to arrest lloyd.

he had left, unnerved by his chat with the fbi and new jersey state police had tailed him, as he drove to the top of the five-story parking garage, got out of his car and sat on a ledge. apparently, suicide seemed a better option than prison. >> and there he is out on the ledge. >> the ledge? >> five stories down, threatening to kill himself. >> so he's going to be a jumper? >> he is going to jump. he has his phone and wants to talk to his daughter. >> after a 90 minute negotiation, a homicide detective tackled lloyd and put him under arrest. back in new york, authorities read his daughter, karrie, her rights too. murder charges for both. michele's mom across the country was in disbelief. >> i said, no, not karrie, not karrie, please not carry. >> the friends in corn and couldn't believe it either. the little ballerina they watched grow up, now charged with murder. >> that is the unbelievable part. >> we love this child.

>> as time has passed, michele's friends are starting to learn of a family's brainwashing , of a controlling father that poisoned his daughter's minds with the drip, drip of a phony story that went on for years. that their mother was no good, crazy, that they would all be better off without her out of the picture. a father's manipulation that would go all the way back to ballet class days and probably earlier. >> what flashed back to me was the timeline i saw of a 7-year- old, karrie, standing front and center, shaking and i personally believe it was this accumulation of control. i felt that she had been brainwashed. >> and looking back, michele's mom was now certain it was lloyd who was behind. >> i believe he started alienating her, manipulating her mind. >> putting a false narrative in her head of who she was and her

people are. >> i refer to him as jim jones. >> it is cult leader ask what he did to her and her sisters. >> it appeared that father and daughter would be tried together. both entered pleas of not guilty. but as the case moved forward, karrie alone in her cell, removed from her father , it was as though the spell was broken. karrie flipped, and decided to testify against her father. >> at what point did your dad approach you with this plan? >> now she gave a second, even more detailed confession, and prepared to be the stark witness at her father's murder trial, and a new detail. she had helped remove her dead mother's body. >> we dragged her around the corner and he tied the rope to the one prong of the banister and lifted her up and put her both over the side. i'm sorry. >> that's okay. >> but her dad's trial never

happened. lab results came back, showing the ex-husband's dna was all over michele's bed boards in that house he claims never to have been inside. in october of 2018, lloyd neurauter pleaded guilty to murder. >> i was stunned. he gave it up. he told us exactly what happened. >> lloyd give a full statement, owning up to being the master manipulator that friends and family said they witnessed all along. >> you described the process, by which he would abuse michele in front of his girls, belittle her, and convince her that he is a narcissist. the world of our revolves around him, the password was all my girls love me. that is how he operated. ultimately that power let karrie to say yes . dad says it is so. if that says it is so, it must be so. >> lloyd was sentenced to life without parole. district attorney baker allowed karrie to plead to a lesser charge of manslaughter . she was sentenced to 1-3 years. the da says the daughter is a

victim too. >> he wants to be sympathetic, because she is a some pathetic character. she deserves sympathy for where she was, but she is still guilty of murder and that is the thing, justice has to happen. >> and friend, cynthia, can't shake that emotional conversation she had with michele, just before she died. the one, where she promised to take care of her daughters. >> if anything happens to me? >> yeah. that quebec very strong for me. >> cynthia kept that promise, visiting karrie in jail and trying to help a bewildered young woman find her way through this. >> she is very remorseful, she misses her mother. very much, and she has said that her mother would know what to do right now. she would know how to help me. >> still grieving over the death of her daughter, michele's mom is now facing another kind of . coming to terms with this unthinkable

crime and the granddaughter who said yes to a father's deadly ultimatum. >> she is a human being. she is still a child. she might be considered an adult, but i consider her a child. >> she killed your daughter. >> she killed my daughter. she is a victim. i struggle with this. i struggle. i asked michele, i say, michele, what you want me to do? what do i do with this child of yours? and i honestly believe that my daughter would want her to be accepting response ability for what she did, and she is. i don't know if i forgive her. but i understand her. that is all for this edition of dateline. i am andrea canning, thank you for watching. good morning, and will come to this saturday edition of