you. in just 12 hours the supreme court will hear oral arguments on donald trump's claim he's immune from all prosecution. msnbc will be airing the full audio of those arguments starting live at 10:00 a.m. during those arguments trump himself will be sitting through the third day of testimony in his manhattan hush money trial, so tomorrow night it's a bonanza. we will have special coverage of both of those big trump trials led by my colleague, rachel maddow, starting at 8:00 p.m. do not miss it. that is our show for tonight. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. these defendants deceived the citizens of arizona by falsely claiming that those votes were contingent only on a legal challenge that would change the outcome of the election. these are serious indictments. we intend to prove these crimes

were committed beyond a reasonable doubt. >> that was arizona's attorney general announcing grand jury charges against 11 fake electors including seven of donald trump's key allies in their attempt to keep trump in power after the 2020 election. we'll go over what the sweeping indictment reveals, plus hours from now the former president will be in new york city for his hush money trial just as the supreme court in washington, d.c. hears his immunity case. our legal expert joins us on what to expect. also ahead, after months of negotiations on capitol hill, president biden signed the foreign aid bill into law, clearing the way for crucial assistance to ukraine. so how soon will america's ally get their much needed weapons? hey, good morning. welcome to "way too early" on this thursday, april 25th.

i am sam stein in for jonathan lemire. when's he coming back? we begin with the latest out of arizona where a state grand jury has indicted 11 so-called fake electors along with several other allies of donald trump in their efforts to overturn the 2020 election. the 58-page indictment includes conspiracy, fraud, and forgery charges related to attempts by the defendants to change the election results in trump's favor. this was the scene back on december 14, 2020, when 11 people met at the republican party headquarters in phoenix to sign a certificate claiming to be arizona's 11 electors despite the fact that joe biden had won arizona by nearly 11,000 votes. the document also describes seven others in trump's orbit who were indicted but had their names redacted such as former white house chief of staff mark meadows, lawyers rudy giuliani, john eastman, christina bobb,

trump campaign official boris epstein and campaign official mike roman. now, trump was not charged but described as unindicted coconspirator one. the indictments mark a significant step forward in an investigation that has spanned more than a year. here's arizona's attorney general kris mayes. >> i understand for some of you today it didn't come fast enough, and i know i'll be criticized by others for conducting this investigation at all. as i've stated before and will say here again today i will not allow american democracy to be nsaid mined. it's too important. >> the republican party of arizona said in a statement posted to social media that the indictments represented a blatant and unprecedented abuse of prosecutorial power aimed solely at distracting the public from the critical policy debates our country should be focusing on as we approach the 2024 election. now, arizona becomes the fourth

state to file criminal charges against the so-called fake electors that sought to undermine president biden's victory over trump. in just hours, meanwhile, donald trump's criminal hush money trial will resume for day seven after court was in recess yesterday. testimony will get under way with former national enquirer publisher david pecker, set to take the witness stand for a third day. prosecutors wrapped up on tuesday after pecker described an alleged catch and kill scheme that he participated in to cover up an alleged affair between trump and playboy model karen mcdougal. at the same time, judge juan merchan could also rule today on whether the former president violated his gag order. yesterday key witnesses in former trump attorney michael cohen stated he would stop posting or speaking publicly about the trial until after its conclusion. cohen is not under a gag order but has been the target of many

of trump's recent rants. though donald trump gave an interview to the abc affiliate in philadelphia this week where he criticized michael cohen, and now one of trump's former attorneys is weighing in on those remarks. here's what trump said followed by new comments from his former lawyer, tim parlator. >> michael cohen is a convicted liar, and he's not no credibility whatsoever. he's a lawyer and you rely on your lawyers, but michael cohen was a convicted liar. he was a lawyer for many peopleinate just me and he got in trouble for things outside what he did for me. >> seemed to be in direct violation of the order as it is written. i think it's problematic for him especially while the judge is currently sitting and trying to decide the issue. >> tim, you're no longer on the payroll, man. meanwhile, in washington the

supreme court will hear arguments this morning in the historic case involving trump and his claim of absolute presidential immunity. trump's legal team argues that presidents have immunity from criminal prosecution for official acts taken while in office. special counsel jack smith's office contends that presidents are not above the law and that even if they are eligible for immunity for some official acts, trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election was not an official presidential act. now, trump's immunity claim has already been rejected by two lower courts, and the special counsel argues that justices should send the case back to u.s. district judge tanya chutkan to begin the trial. the decision and timing of the supreme court's ruling will be key as to whether the case goes to trial at all or is delayed past the presidential election. with all that said, a lot to unpack. joining us now nbc justice and legal affairs analyst anthony

coley. he was the top spokesman at the department of justice under attorney general merrick garland. and a disclaimer he insists that i read, he's not an actual lawyer. set expectations at the right level. >> right. >> there's a lot to unpack today. crazy day. let's start with the immunity argument, because i think you and i both agree -- obviously everything's huge, but this one is monumental. what do you expect from the justice, what are you going to be looking for? >> what's interesting to me we often refer to trump's -- well, let me say it this way. this moment feels to me like a timeout in a football game where we know what the end call is going to be but we're waiting for the referee to review the tape. that's what it feels like to me. i mean at the end of the day his argument is that he was so high up as president that he was above the law. and just play that out for a second. in real world parliament's that

means a president could direct an fbi director to plant false and incriminating evidence on a political foe without any criminal accountability at all. it could also mean a president could direct the head of the national guard to assassinate a political opponent. or think about this, he could direct the national guard to assassinate supreme court justices that doesn't agree with him. that's something joyce vance suggested prosecutors actually raise as an example, as a hypothetical in today's other oral arguments to bring it home. i want to be clear about this. this case is not about the merits at all. this is an effort about donald trump to throw sand in the gears of the underlying to keep it from even getting started or completed before the november election. that's what's happening. >> sometimes when referees do review a call, they continue to upold the wrong call. is there any doubt in your mind that the supreme court will not

reject this? >> ultimately no. what they could do is refer the matter back down to a lower court for further fact finding, but in -- that is a win for donald trump, right? because it gives it -- >> it elongigates the time. >> it eelongates the time. no one is above democracy and certainly not american presidents. >> we'll shift to the trial that is happening right now. judge merchan so far held off on any ruling about his gag order. >> right. >> as we saw a former trump lawyer suggest plainly states he violated the gag order. if trump's own former lawyer can see it so clearly do you presume that the judge himself will see it so clearly? and if so, why has it taken this long? >> what's interesting right now is prosecutors themselves, the district attorney's office has not asked judge juan merchan to detain donald trump, and so i suspect what we're going to see

play out is first the judge to levy a financial pen appellate on donald trump and also give him a very stern talking to. the judge has not spoken to trump directly about any violations of the gag order, and judge juan merchan like he -- i think he has a reputation of treating people fairly, and of course this is a trial of a life. he doesn't want to be overturned on appeal, so he's going to do everything by the book, and i think first we're going to see those financial -- >> do you think in the back of his mind the judge says if i issue $1,000 fine for every violation of gag order trump is going to use that to raise a couple million dollars. do you think political calculations are going through the judge's decision making? >> it shouldn't. right, judges have a responsibility to uphold the rule of law fairly to pursue justice without fear or favor. political considerations should not come into anything that he does, but you've got to think in the back of his mind he is -- he

is aware of the political downstream effects, which is why he wants to get it exactly right and by the book. >> that's it. i'm sorry i could go all out but i totally have to end it there. nbc justice affairs and legal analyst anthony coley, appreciate it. still ahead the military wing of hamas releases a video of an american israeli hostage. what the 23-year-old's parents are saying about the footage. plus, president biden takes on donald trump at a union event in washington, d.c. we'll show you those remarks. those stories and a check on sports and weather when we come right back. sports and weather when we come right back

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months ago. nbc news correspondent raf sanchez has more on reaction to the footage. >> reporter: this undated hamas video giving a first. >> glimpse of hersh poland in captivity. the fact he survived october 7th is miraculous. this video shows him being kidnapped from the super nova music festival, his left arm badly damaged by a grenade. video shows the 23-year-old's hand is gone, but he appears otherwise uninjured. he's one of five americans believed to be alive in hamas captivity. mom, dad, libby and orly, i love you so much and miss you so much and i think of you every day i'm here, he says. his parents rachel and john calling on israel and hamas to reach a cease-fire greet. >> we're relieved to see him alive, but we're also concerned about his health and well-being. >> we heard your voice today for the first time in 201 days, and if you can hear us, i am tell

you, we are telling you we love you, stay strong, survive. >> reporter: in the oval office president biden also meeting for the first time with a free u.s. hostage, 4-year-old abigail the youngest american kidnapped by hamas was released last year. but israel says 133 lostages are still in gaza, at least 36 of them confirmed dead. and hersh goldberg poland's parents have been passionate advocates for their release. speaking to lester several times since october 7th. >> how do you walk through a nightmare that you cannot wake up from ever? >> reporter: a family in agony but not despair. >> one line that we say every single day in our house when someone gave it to us in a sticker because we say it so much, hope is mandatory. >> nfc nbc's raf sanchez reporting. later this morning hersh's mother, rachel goldberg poland, will be a guest on "morning joe." meanwhile, president biden

has picked up yet another key union endorsement ahead of the november election. north america's building trade union announced their support with a scathing political ad slamming donald trump. in it the president of the union calls the former president, quote, very dangerous for this country. president biden celebrated the support at a union event last night where he gave his vision of the country's future and criticized his opponent, donald trump. >> i see an america where we defend democracy not diminish it. i see in america we'll protect freedoms, not take them away. i see an economy that grows from the middle up and bottom out so we can have child care, paid leave and so much more and still reduce the federal deficit and increase economic growth. folks, imagine what we can do next. we all grew up with folks that

sort of looked down on us because what our dads did. they weren't in the business, they weren't swreg tsks, they weren't something special, but they are special. people like donald trump learned a different lesson. he learned the best way to get rich is inherit it. he learned paying taxes was something working people did, not him. he learned that telling people you're fired was something to laugh about. not in my household, not in my neighborhood. i mean it severely, no joke. >> still ahead we'll turn to sports and last night's playoff action in the nhl and the nba including the miami heat shattering a franchise record in their battle with the celts. "way too early" is coming right back. celts. "way too early" is coming right back but this is my story. ( ♪♪ ) and with once-daily trelegy, it can still be beautiful.

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game. caleb for three. yes, caleb martin, huge. >> that was caleb martin's fifth three-pointer. it was the 23rd of the game for the miami heat. that's a new post-season record for the franchise. the heat, a long-range barrage to bounce back from their blow out loss to the celtics in game one beating boston 111-101 last night. the teams now travel to miami for game three on saturday night. just the inevitable miami heat and the playoffs just bound to have them in the finals where they will be blown out by whoever wins out west. and speaking of the west, in oklahoma city, the thunder rolled to a 2-0 series lead with a 124-92 win over the pelicans. game three is saturday afternoon in new orleans. look, the thunder are young but they are good. in the west the champion vegas

golden knights notched another win on the road last night to bring a 2-0 series lead home to las vegas for game three. and up in edmonton king's captain andre had two assists and scored the decider in overtime to lift los angeles to a 5-4 win over the oilers and tie the series at one game each. out in the east the bruins took one from the maple leaves in toronto winning game three 4-2. the ferns now lead the series two games to one. at least something is going right. and turning now to major league baseball. wow, the hitting clinic put on by the los angeles dodgers last night in d.c., nation's capitol. l.a. connected for a season high 20 hits including three doubles from shohei ohtani. he now leads the league in base

hits. the dodgers beat the nats for their third consecutive victory. in the bronx aaron judge sparked the yankees with a second chance homer in the first inning. judge appeared to take a call for a strike and even heading back to the dugout before the third base umpire charges open the pitcher and judge returned to the box and sent the pitch over and classic yankees home run. anthony rizzo and juan soto also went long. yankees beat the a's 7-3. all right, now time for the weather. let's go to meteorologist angie lassman for the latest. angie, what is going on with the forecast today? >> hi, good morning, sam. we've got a lot going on wp severe weather as far as the forecast is concerned today. multiweather event unfolding for us and across the midsection of the country. let's talk about today, tonight. we've got this front going to

lift slowly. that's going to bring us a chance for strong storms especially after dark. notice those strong tornados are possible ef-2 or higher, places from kansas city stretching to texas including parts of oklahoma. that's on the table after dark. we know how dangerous those tornados are once the sun goes down, so heads up for folks there. can't let our dward down tomorrow either still have the heavy rain in the forecast but those severe storms possible from dallas to des moines. all hazards are going to be on the table once again as we round out our workweek including the chance for stronger tornados. tomorrow kansas city the bulls eye for stronger tornados, but look how expansive that area is. saturday, too, and unfortunately sunday we'll see these stronger storms still shape up across parts of the plains, especially that tornado potential will be possible from texas to iowa, something to watch as we get into the weekend. this will cover a large section of the country. once again, sam, mostly across

the midsection of the country this weekend. >> folks need to stay safe out there. angie lassman, thank you so much. and till ahead president biden signs the $94 billion foreign aid package sending billions of dollars of funding to war torn ukraine and other allies. we'll talk about what this means for the isolationist wing of the republican party. we'll be back in just a moment. we'll be back in just a moment which is why downy does more to make clothes softer, fresher, and better. downy. breathe life into your laundry. - so this is pickleball? - pickle! ah, these guys are intense. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right? (man) mm, hey, honey. looks like my to-do list grew. "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath,

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welcome back to "way too early."

it's 5:30 on the east coast, 2:30 out west. now, president biden signed the house's foreign aid package yesterday guaranteeing billions in aid for ukraine, israel, and our indo-pacific allies. biden commented on the $95 billion package shortly after the signing. let's take a listen to that. >> in the next few hours, literally few hours we're going to begin sending in equipment to ukraine for air defense munitions, for artillery, for rocket systems and armored vehicles. you know, this package is literally an investment not only in ukraine security but in europe security, in our own security. we're sending ukraine equipment from our own stockpile, and then we'll replace those stockpiles with new products made by american companies here in america. there's one thing this bill does not do, border security. you know, just this year i

proposed and negotiated and agreed to the strongest security bill this country has ever, ever seen and it's bipartisan. it should have been included in this bill, and i'm determined to get it done for the american people. >> all right, joining us now congressional correspondent for nbc news, julie sirken. julie, thanks for coming in. is it the morning? feels like late night. let's break down the bill. obviously a huge win for biden. i'm curious would you qualify it -- is it a win for mike johnson? would you qualify it as a win or do you just surrive the process? >> i think it's a win if you talk to democrats and republicans in the capitol. many of them say their stock has only risen in mike johnson. he woke up sunday morning after the house bill passed and he had all these headlines his team was circulating very thoroughly because of the threat he's facing of course saying he did the right thing, he's the

churchill of our time, going on and on about how he played this right, and being satisfied really in the end. i talked to many democrats and i don't know if this is helpful to him praising him all week long they were surprised by what he did, and i think it was a really monumental moment for him. they don't see him as a mccarthy, which is funny because of course mccarthy was going back and forth trying to keep his gavel, johnson deciding he's going to do the right thing. does he keep his job? i don't know the former president coming out and giving him some cover this week, could it help him, maybe. >> what is your mood right now if you had to take it of the conservative caucus or the republican caucus specifically the vocal sort of right-wing isolationists who said we don't want to sends any money to ukraine, we have to do border security first. this bill does neither of those. will they come after johnson after all, or does trump giving him cover negate that threat?

>> that's a good question. i asked thomas massy on saturday what's your deadline? you keep saying you want this guy to resign or you're going to force him to quit basically, and he said there is no deadline. so i feel they want to make this happen. they want to kick him out, but it's almost like he has this wind under his sails at the moment, and they also don't want to fight on the floor again like they had in the fall, multiple ballots, speaker jeffries, democratic leader, getting more votes than any republican candidate that stepped up. that was really embarrassing for them. donors are turned off this close to an election they could end up in a minority if they cause shenanigans. at the same time it's hard to predict. they've done a lot of things that maybe weren't politically smart over the last year. who's to say whether marjorie taylor greene or any of the three will bring up a motion to vacate him in the end. >> very quickly we still have president biden there talking about the border security component.

they negotiated it, got axed because of president trump. biden right there says i want to go at it again. is there any appetite among members of congress, republicans in congress to reconsider that compromise deal they struck >> i don't mean to smile or laugh at this but you've been covering this place for a long time, too. you know how long the border and immigration issue has been. they couldn't do it months ago and that was kind of their window to do it. this close to an election there's no way the former president is ever going to give republicans a way to do it again. senator james langford who negotiated that bill told me right afterward he's never going to do this again. so i don't see a chance for legislative action on this, but who knows if president biden will do anything executive wise on the border. >> congressional correspondent for nbc news julie tsirkin thank you for coming in. still ahead we'll go live to cnbc for an early look what's driving wall street. plus boeing reports a major loss

for the first quarter of the year. we'll dig into what that means for the company as it faces increased scrutiny in the safety of its planes. "way too early" will be right back. of its planes. "way too early" will be right back

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all right, time now for business, and for that let's bring in cnbc's charlotte reed live from london. charlotte, investors are looking ahead to the first quarter report on u.s. gdp, gross domestic product. it's set to be released in the next few hours. what are the economists expecting for that number? >> good morning, sam. we're just look back at yesterday's session it was a little bit choppy, the s&p 500 and dow jones industrial average closing kind of flattish with the nasdaq slightly higher off the back of positive earnings from tech giants. there will be more earnings today including microsoft,

alphabet, intel, comcast, and american airlines among others reporting today. as you were say the big one to watch would be the data on the q1 u.s. gdp data. the u.s. economy is expected to have grown at a solid pace for the first three months of the year above 2% for the seventh consecutive quarter in a row. >> that would be a nice number to see. corporate earnings season, meanwhile, is in full swing with boeing, a beleaguered company, posting a major loss in the first quarter of the year. what more did we learn from the corporate earnings season? >> well, what we learn is boeing burned through almost $4 billion in cash in the first quarter. and of course that's due to the ongoing crisis at the plane manufacturer after the alaska airlines incident back in january when the 737 max door panel blew mid-flight. since then boeing has been under pressure from regulators and some of those airlines to slow productions and jet deliveries

while it works on improving some of its quality controls. now, we know already the company said this year will be stepped down by the end of this year. this is a rough patch for the company, but that safety and quality must and will come above all else. overall, boeing posted a 355 million loss in the first quarter, a little bit less than expected. >> that is a shocking, shocking number. 4 billion, wow. cnbc's charlotte reed live from london, thank you very much. and still ahead the supreme court hears arguments over idaho's near total abortion ban. we'll break down what's at stake and how the ruling could impact other states. that's next on "way too early." we live our lives on our home's fabrics. and though we come and go, our odors stay. it's called odor transfer. left untreated, those odors get trapped inside fabrics and then release smells into your air. eww.

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the u.s. supreme court sounded divided yesterday during oral arguments in a case

concerning access to emergency abortions. the justices were hearing arguments in two consolidated cases about whether a near total abortion ban in the state of idaho conflicts with a federal law. that federal law, which was passed in 1986, requires emergency rooms to provide care to any patient with urgent medical issues. but idaho's new abortion law only permits hospitals to perform abortions when a mother's life is in danger. for the most part, the supreme court justices seem to fall along ideological lines, but at one point yesterday even conservative justice amy coney barrett expressed shock with what she was hearing from a lawyer representing the state of idaho. >> when idaho law changed to make the issue whether she's going to die or not or whether she's going to have a serious medical condition, there's a bit of daylight by your standards,

correct? >> it's very case by case. >> i'm kind of shocked actually because i thought your own expert had said below these kinds of cases are covered. and you're now saying they're tot? those doctors said if they were exercising their medical judgment they could in good faith determine that lifesaving care was necessary. that's my point is that -- >> but some doctors couldn't. some doctors might reach a contrary conclusion i think is what justice sotomayor is asking you. >> joining us now the former regional director of the u.s. department of health and human services. doctor, what are your reactions to what you heard yesterday during the oral arguments specifically that clip we just played from supreme court justice amy coney barrett? >> so it was very interesting to watch them talk about medical care between a patient or physician without actually have a patient or physician in the conversation. you saw a bunch of attorneys and

justices trying to parse out what is a medical emergency that meet the standard for a state of idaho to allow a lifesaving intervention to happen to save a woman's life. and what was remarkably refreshing was actually to hear justice amy coney barrett really reflect on the idea at some point you heard him say why are we even here? what is the case you're fighting for? where are you trying to stop the intervention to save a woman's life in the state of idaho where the doctor is ready and willing and waiting to do what needs to be done, but somehow you won't let that happen, you're denying the care. and that is what you heard in the clip just there was both justice sote mayor and justice barrett say, wait, what? you're stopping care in an emergency? that does not seem to be what we were trying to do with -- what we were trying to accomplish with limiting the number of abortions in the united states. >> you know, are we -- we've talked about this in various iterations post-dobbs but i think you brought up the most

interesting point, which is that essentially what we've done is we're taking care decisions away from physicians and handing them to lawyers. i'm wondering how this works if you're a care physician, what do you do with this? do you actually have to consult with a hospital administered lawyer to say, hey, is this okay what i do? does it actually get to that type of granular level? >> we're seeing that all over the country in states like tennessee and texas. there are committees being setup now so that in an emergency a physician doesn't just lean on their medical judgment but has to call risk management or the hospital attorneys to figure out if they're allowed to provide the care that they know how to provide. and that -- that interference of patient care does not serve patients in an emergency. we need politicians to get out of our emergency rooms, our operating rooms, and our clinic rooms. >> all right, and let's get back to the sort of legal element of this. you know, if we are at a sort of hodgepodge system of abortion

rights where states can do what they want to do, let's say the supreme court does decide with the state of idaho, what are the ramifications here in terms of emergency abortion access in that state but in other states? in theory it could just be confined to idaho alone, right? >> well, actually we heard yesterday it's not just confined to idaho. there are numerous seats that do not have exceptions for the health of the mother which would be covered, and what we see now is chaos all over the united states where physicians are seeing patients from other states come to their state, states like oregon right next to the state of idaho, receiving patients who are sicker than they need to be, coming to their ers not just lifted from a hospital from idaho to oregon but being forced to get in their car and drive over state to state. patients are get unnecessarily sicker, losing organs, running the risk of losing fertility, and unfortunately seeing cases where people are being denied care at the front door of an er

even though doctors are willing and able to take care of them. this is now a bridge too far. >> former regional director at the u.s. department of health and human services dr. dara kass, thank you so much. really appreciate it. and up next house speaker mike johnson visits columbia university, calls for the school's president to resign over his handling of the gaza war demonstrations on campus. and coming up on "morning joe," the chancellor of vanderbilt university will join the conversation to discuss how protests are playing out there. plus as i mention the mother of an american israeli hostage will be a guest after the release of a hamas propaganda video featuring her son. also ahead live reporting from lower manhattan where donald trump's criminal hush money trial is set to resume later this morning and also to the supreme court where justices await trump's immunity claims today. "morning joe" is just moments away. "morning joe" is just moments away ah, these guys are intense.

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president for her handling of the gaza war protests. he made the comments after visiting the campus yesterday in support of the jewish students who have reported threats of violence. johnson also suggested the national guard should be called in to control the chaos. his appearance, however, was met by boos and heckling. >> i'm here today joining my colleagues and calling on president shafik to resign if she cannot immediately bring order to this chaos. as speaker of the house, i am committing today that the congress will not be silent as jewish students are expected to run for their lives and stay home from their classes hiding in fear. if this is not contained quickly and if these threats and intimidation are not stopped, there is an appropriate time for the national guard. we have to bring order to these campuses. we cannot allow this to happen around the country. we are better than this. i'll ask the president to do that and tell him that very same thing. a growing number of students

have chanted in support of terrorists. they have chased down jewish students. they have mocked them and shouted racial epithets. they have screamed at those who bear the star of david. [ chants of "we can't hear you" ]. >> enjoy your free speech. we will do right by america. we respect free speech and diversity of ideas, but there is a way to do that in a lawful manner, and that is not what this is. >> meanwhile, we're continuing to see more protests at other college campuses across the country. southern california campus had a pro-palestinian protest that went on for hours. 93 people were arrested after protests refused a dispersal order. online classes will be held for the rest of the week. dozens were also arrested at the university of texas at austin. 34 people were taken into

custody yesterday. republican governor greg abbott posted on social media, quote, the protesters belong in jail. adding that anti-semitism will not be tolerated. meanwhile, the university faculty is condemning what it calls the school's militarized response to yesterday's planned demonstration. in the letter, the staff wrote that professors will not be teaching classes today. it's not clear how many people will participate. wow. joining us now is politics reporter for semafor, dave weigel. thanks for coming in. >> good to be here. >> unpack this moment politically. on the one hand, it seems confined to academia. this is a segment of the segment of the electorate. on the other hand, it also feels like a powder keg politically to me. what's your take on this? >> powder keg is a good description. what republicans have done in reaction to it has not doused anything. >> right. >> there has been -- starting with tom cotton, continuing with mike johnson, an endorsement by

republicans of bringing the national guard, uring biden and governors to bring in the national guard. historically, that does not calm protests down. in 2020, would you say the national guard calmed things down in minneapolis, in -- >> no. >> it didn't. there are de-escalation tactics that have not been working here, and actually on a short time line for the campuses. in a couple weeks, they're done with classes at usc next friday, i believe. what you're seeing from republicans is not a, let's let these things wind down and let campus disperse, it is, how can we do a bold statement using police power? the images you're seeing here, tell people you're not allowed to protest israel in the way you're doing it. >> republicans, in theory, don't mind that. >> right. >> they view this as a friction within the democratic base. the white house, interestingly enough, they don't seem to think that this is a major problem at

this point. allies of the administration are saying, look, if you look at the polling, in fact, younger voters, the israeli/palestine conflict ranks fairly low in terms of their voting interest. is this a problem for the administration? could it balloon into a problem for the administration if this snowballs in the way you're talking about? >> election in november. convention in less than four months, democratic convention. if the conflict is in the state it is right now, if there are palestinians -- images every day of palestinians being dug up, starving, why would it change? there are external factors the administration cannot change here, and that's what it is reacting to. what the protesters demanded, and demands change from campus to campus, but they want a cease-fire and cessation of all military aid to israel, and they didn't get one. congress voted in the last few days. that's not going to happen. there is going to be continued military support for israel. no, the protests won't stop until the war does. i think one question is, who is

left in this movement? depending on the facts on the ground, is it expanded by college students, by liberals? look at polling on israel. it has been collapsing. most people don't want the united states to fund the war. or has it shrunk to the point where it is left-wing, professional organizing groups doing this? we don't know yet. it depends on what happens in israel, in gaza. >> the specter of protests at the chicago convention. >> yeah. >> let's talk about your piece which i thought was interesting. there's questions about why the protesters are wearing masks. >> right. we saw some of the video. >> yeah, you saw in the video. why are they wearing masks? >> there are two big reasons. one, talking to protest leaders, organizers, one really is this is a part of the country, not like much of the country, that believes that you need to continue masking for avoidance of covid and for solidarity for people who have co-morbidities and might catch covid. ongoing pandemic. not a think you hear walking out

of the studio, but something you wear on campuses. another is a fear of being exposed, being identified. there is a desire to show a mass resistance to american policy, the biggest crowd possible, the biggest protest possible, but not identify individually who is protesting. go back to october 8th, 9th, 10th. people who were signing letters on campuses, people who were making statements criticizing israel, they had job offers rescinded, had their faces blown up across tv, put on billboards but pro-israel groups, on trucks driving around campuses. this is partly reaction to that. people want to join protests but don't want to be publicly identified. they want their bodies to be part of a symbol of resistance without their story being told because they're worried about the effects it could have on them. >> all right. dave, appreciate the reporting. really great writing. thank you for unpacking this incredible moment. appreciate you coming in, as well. >> thank you. >> politics reporter for

semafor, dave weigel, thanks again. thank you for getting up "way too early" on this thursday morning. we have "morning joe" starts right about now. donald trump still thinks windmills cause cancer. that's what he said. by the way, remember when he was trying to deal with covid? he said, just inject a little bleach into your veins. he missed. it all went to his hair. [ laughter ] look, i shouldn't have said that. >> oh, yes, you should have. that was pretty good. whoa, psych. president biden poking fun at donald trump's hair at an event where biden picked up another major union endorsement. it was all in fun. meanwhile, today is a big legal day for the