back to 1860s before arizona was a state. there could be other state rulings as well. lot of states will be voting directly on abortion. >> lot to watch. politico's allison miranda, thank you very much. thank you for getting up "way too early." i think everyone has made their own assessment of donald trump. >> he described the dobbs as a miracle. maybe it's coming from the bible he's trying to sell. i almost wanted to buy one just to see what's in it. >> republican senator mitt

romney and president biden making jokes about donald trump. there was a lot to go around yesterday. mitt romney, wow. bring it home, willie. >> yeah, mitt romney going in there, obviously no love lost between those two men. mitt romney, expect to hear more of that throughout the campaign. >> expert legal analysis on yesterday's testimony in the hush money trial and the gag order against trump. straight ahead. president biden's joke came while he was campaigning in florida. on the issue of reproductive rights and women's health care, blaming trump for overturning roe and these extreme abortion laws. we'll show you more of the president's speech. quite a flex going down to florida while trump was stuck in court in new york city.

on capitol hill, a top republican admits it's trump's fault that border security hasn't passed. we knew that. to hear this republican say it really brings it home. willie, i had the news on all day, if i heard the word pecker one more time, i was going to lose my mind. >> david pecker. the first witness in the new york case. >> all right, good morning, everybody. welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, april 24th. along with willie and me we have a member of the "the new york times" editorial board maya and sam stein. our top story has to do with pecker. >> i think you're enjoying saying his name. testimony in donald trump's hush money criminal trial is scheduled to resume tomorrow

after several key developments in court yesterday. first, the judge held a hearing at the start of tuesday's proceedings on whether the former president had violated his gag order. prosecutors have asked the judge to fine him $1,000 for each violation. trump's attorney said he hasn't violated the order. he was, quote, being careful about complying with the order. but the judge expressed extreme frustration with that argument, telling his attorney saying, quote, losing all credibility with the court. any violation of the gag order in articles he repost to social media is unintentional. >> if i read every one of these articles in complete, i'll look

at headlines, all good headlines, the case is a sham. i can't read the whole thing. this is like reading a novel. so i put an article and somebody's name is mentioned. i end up in violation of the gag order. >> so he says he's innocently reposting things that in violate the gag order. let's bring in lisa rubin and former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor barbara mcquaid. lisa, clearly the judge yesterday very frustrated had enough of the argument from the defense team that donald trump doesn't mean to be posting these things but somehow he's not posting the whole article so it's not bad.

where do you think this is finding in. >> a finding on contempt. with what remedy. at this point the d.a.'s office was very clear, they're not seeking any term in jail for trump, one of two alternatives under the criminal contempt statute here in new york. expect to see a written opinion by judge merchand. one of things that the d.a.'s office pointed out that was really savvy was to show in addition to these offensive posts trump has talked about the gag order including a video he posted to truth social fairly recently. saying trump knows exactly what he can and cannot do under the gag order. he's posted about the judge, about the process as a whole as

he understands full well, don't flout the gag order. again, expect to see a written opinion from the judge in the next couple of days. that fines donald trump anywhere from 5,000 to 10,000, also orders him to take the offensive posts down with a warning the next violation will result in something far worse. >> barbara, you get the sense that he's testing this judge. hold me in contempt for violating the gag order. he goes outside to the bank of cameras and violates the gag order. this ruling comes down and it's $8,000 or how many counts of violation of the gag order, is that a step toward something else, i'm not sure $7,000 is going to deter donald trump? >> yes, i think that most judges like to use progressive

discipline, that is, your first violation will get you one fine of subsequent violation may get you a higher fine, this judge has the power to judge donald trump for up 30 days, it seems like donald trump is trying to bait the judge here, perhaps demonstrate to his supporters that he's above the law and get away with anything he wants to, on the other hand if you do jail donald trump that fulfills his prophecy, a witch hunt, try to curtail his election efforts and interfere with the election. if i were the judge i'd do follow the advice of janet reno, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. do the best thing. litigant who repeatedly violated a gag order would find

themselves jailed. that's the risk donald trump faces. >> testimony resumed with david pecker returning to the witness stand for a second day. he's the former ceo of american media incorporate, the parent company of the national enquirer. pecker revealed he was present at donald trump's 2015 campaign announcement at trump tower and said former trump attorney cohen told him he should be there. three months later the three men had a meeting. prosecutions alleged that's when the election scheme hatch. pecker told trump and cohen he would be their quote eyes and ears on stories that could be damaging to trump. he would run positive stories about trump and run negative stories about his opponents. the articles included stories about then-trump rivals and now allies senators ted cruz and marco rubio and ben carson. pecker said cohen would call and

say, we'd like you to run an an article on a specific target. the enquirer would embellish it from there. the we cohen referred to, pecker said he understood it to me cohen and trump. barbara, can you go back to what is the law that prosecutors are trying to prove that trump broke, or what is the crime that trump committed, that he's sitting there in court for and how does pecker's testimony help corroborate that in any way? >> of course, the law here is falsification of business records to conceal the commission of another crime, i think what the prosecutors have done that's very helpful is to start with the crime and talk about the false my case of the business records as the cover-up. so here, the crime is a statute

under new york law, 17-152 that makes it a crime to conspire to promote or prevent the election to any office by unlawful means. campaign expenditures without the intent to report them. cohen paid $130,000. national enquirer paid $30,000 and $120,000 to karen mcdougal. those payments make this illegal. crime is committed. it's enough they falsified with the intent to do that but they've also got that evidence of illegal campaign expenditures. it extended all the way through the election and beyond throughout this cover-up. >> so, lisa, i'm curious about -- i know this is sort of

looking at sort of the exterior things, in the courtroom just the demeanor of trump and just watching this closely from home, seeing him coming into court from the beginning i feel like, i don't want to overstate it, he seems very subdued, his colorful personality is almost turned gray if i could, i just wonder if it's the walking in and having to sit down, cameras in his face, arch enemies in his courtroom every day, is it getting to him or the case itself bothering him in david pecker sitting there and everybody asking david pecker or talking on the air about questions about what david pecker knows, i'm thinking it's possible that david pecker has a few more secrets about donald trump than the ones that are being discussed. >> i think you're absolutely right, i expect david pecker to

be on the stand through the end of the week. i think the prosecution has at least several more hours of direct testimony with david pecker. first of all, we left off yesterday with the beginning of the karen mcdougal settlement, that means we have to talk through that story, the stormy daniels settlement and the enquirer's involvement in that. as you mentioned, through 2017 when we know that david pecker saw trump at least twice where he was thanked by trump for his contributions to the election. as you noted a lot of conversations still to testify to. david pecker testified yesterday to at least two conversations directly with donald trump. that august 2015 meeting that trump and cohen invited him to, when he got to, what can you do for us in relation to the campaign? what can you personally do? what can the enquirer do?

he also talk about a conversation on the phone with donald trump when karen mcdougal surfaced. michael has told me about karen, what do you think? we know from david pecker's beginning testimony he talked to trump once he became a candidate at least once a week by phone and saw him in person once a month. what's notable about that, he saw and talked to trump more after he became a candidate than he did before. usually when people run for president of the united states and become a pay jar party nomination they have less time for the other people in their life as they're blanketing the trail. >> the check book journalism that was laid out in full display in the courtroom. definitely when i was growing

up, you're younger, going to the grocery store with my mom there was national enquirer, crazy pictures of famous people and crazy stories, is the theme here is that enquirer could move the meter on the way people think, do people see this as journalism, is this surprising to the jury. >> one of the most disturbing parts as a journalist of this case to me, david pecker's description is checkbook journalism. i wouldn't call it journalism at all. generally you don't pay for stories. that's not how journalists operate when they're ethical. but the thing about the national enquirer, number one, it's a

throwback. i do think it feeds into, you know, what you're talking about which is, you used to see it at the grocery store before you checked out and you'd say, gee, i wonder if that's true. the hallmark of what donald trump does and he instructs those around him to express doubt to plant a seed whether it's conspiracy or a lie and allow it to blossom kind of naturally, so that seems to be what he was doing by using david pecker and i just wonder, lisa, i wonder if you could talk about the defense's case here, do they have a leg to stand on? >> they do. and they don't. one of the things that they've said nondisclosure agreements are perfectly lawful, influencing an election assed to plan chard said it's perfectly

lawful, it's called democracy. yes, in isolation. to put them to a purpose that this has been put to, in other words to influence an election by not reporting in kind or actual campaign contributions essentially, is not lawful. so, i think their best defense is to distant donald trump from the cover-up and where the d.a.'s own evidence seems weakest at least in terms of direct evidence. they have a ton of direct evidence about the formation of the conspiracy and donald trump's knowledge to carry those out. you saw this in listening closely to the d.a.'s opening statement when it comes to how it was papered over, yes, donald trump signed some checks, can they show on the other hand that donald trump knew exactly what he was paying michael cohen for

and understood that without relying entirely on michael cohen? that remains a little bit to be seen. that's part of the case i'm most looking forward to. the most important part of the case because that's the crime as barbara note td, they have to prove that he falsified business records. >> connect those dots. they have to prove that. sam, it was a bit reliving the 2016 campaign yesterday. ted cruz's father being involved somehow in the jfk assassination. to mika's question, whether it's all a joke, we all laughed at

those headlines as a kid at the grocery store. there's some element of reliving all this, which is part of what the biden campaign is hoping through all these cases that people will be reminded of how exhausting and how full of lies the trump years, the trump campaign and the trump presidency were. >> yeah, first of all, i'm surprised that maura would slander the publication's good name. they've broken a few amount of alien love child. does mika have a clause in her contract if she mentions david pecker's name a number of times, a bonus kicks in. back on script, look, the meta story here, you have biden

on the trail, talking about abortion, campaigning, doing sort of the nuts and bolts of politics, very conventional. then you have trump in a courtroom, he's distracted, he's embroiled in tabloid controversy of his own making, so that contrast is obviously something that the biden campaign welcomes. i will just say, we're talking about the defense here, i'd ask this of barbara, too, i actually think the defense is fairly easy here, right, which is this man david pecker ran the national enquirer, which literally made up stories and peddled lies, why should we believe that he's telling the truth now, same with michael cohen, he's admitted in prior iterations that he lied, why should we believe anything he says now, that to me,

barbara, seems a powerful defense, they're admitted liars, in disinformation, you shouldn't believe what they have to say, what should the prosecution do with that. >> often times a prosecutor needs to use as a witness somebody who was a criminal association as a defendant. the common statement is to say, i didn't choose the witnesses the defendant did by associating with them very closely. the key is of course is to find corroborating evidence so the jury doubt have to take their word for it. we'll hear from people like hope hicks and other people who worked for the trump organization, we'll see documents in the forms of checks, and ledgers, we'll hear that recording between michael cohen and donald trump about setting up essential consultant

consultants. you can see it coming for david pecker, for sure, it's coming for michael cohen and if she testifies it will be coming for stormy daniels as well. very often the corroboration is enough to rehabilitate those witnesses. >> all right, former u.s. attorney barbara mcquaid and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin, thank you. the senate passed the $95 billion foreign aid package last night. we'll show you what leaders from both sides of the aisle are saying about the critical funding for ukraine. plus, the latest from columbia university amid heated protests on campus in response to the israel/gaza war, how the fbi is getting involved to prevent violence. also this morning, transportation secretary pete buttigieg is our guest. you're watching "morning joe".

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president biden was on the campaign trail yesterday in donald trump's home state. the president gave a speech on reproductive rights. one week before florida's six-week abortion ban goes into effect. six weeks. he blamed trump for the repeal of roe v. wade and extreme abortion laws across the country. >> for 50 years, the court ruled that there was a fundamental constitutional right to privacy. but two years ago, that was taken away. let's be real clear, there's one person responsible for this nightmare and he's acknowledged it and he brags about it -- donald trump. now trump says the law is quote working the way it's supposed to. trump goes on individual state laws are working, his words,

brilliantly. brilliantly. it's a six-week ban in florida. really brilliant, isn't it? even before a woman know they're pregnant. is that brilliant? he says it's up to the states. this is all about states' rights. he's wrong, the supreme court was wrong. it should be a constitutional right in the federal constitution, a federal right. it shouldn't matter where in america you live. this isn't about states' rights. it's about women's rights. >> joining us now is susan page, author of the new book "the rulebreaker." i can't wait, susan, congratulations on the book. i just want to ask about joe biden in florida, first, the flex of that, donald trump is stuck in a new york city courtroom, talking about his

relationship with head of the national enquirer david pecker and stories they tried to move along to try and defame people or at least get people to think badly of them, stories that might tried to hide, the whole thing is gross, it's seedy, and it might be even more surprising to people as to how that all works. there you have joe biden in a state that's going to be pretty hard to flip blue, but perhaps a six-week ban could give the biden campaign a fighting chance, can you talk about that ban and how it's not just reproductive rights and choice but it's also -- we'll see the health of women in florida severely impacted by a ban like this. >> we know women overwhelmingly in this country think that's unreasonable limitation on the

access of abortion. republican women, too. it's hard to imagine that democrats carry florida in november but it's not hard to imagine that women in georgia and north carolina and arizona and elsewhere were listening to the president yesterday and nodding their heads in agreement when he talking about that florida ban, mika. >> maura, what do you make of joe biden in florida especially his comments on reproductive freedom. >> i think first of all it's a flex and it's a reminder to donald trump, it's essentially joe biden saying to dx d., you can't escape this. i think donald trump has been -- he's talked out both sides of his mouth, said that the dobbs ruling is working as it should. other times he's said certain states have gone too far. women in america and voters in america know exactly who it is put the supreme court justices

in place, who, you know, ultimately struck down roe v. wade and i think it's going to be very difficult for the republican party and donald trump to escape that responsibility. but the thing that biden is capitalizing on is that women across are extremely motivated by this. it's not just about florida, people in michigan who are looking at this, oh yeah, that's right. i'm very angry. this is a hugely motivating issue. this is not a red state/blue state issue, americans are furious over this. >> sam, as mika said, the biden campaign concedes florida is a long shot but it's worth going there. to broadcast to the country this

is what donald trump has wrought and donald trump has been tied in knots on this issue. let's send this back to states. joe biden goes to florida, here's what happens when you send it back to the states. they're going to hammer this point all the way through november. >> totally. let me just add to what maura said, you know, this is not something that's going to go away not just because joe biden will go to florida or kamala harris will go to arizona hey look what's happening in your states. because there's going to be actual important news breaks on this issue. in arizona for instance, the legislation will likely consider a bill to overturn that. today at the supreme court the first hearing for a challenge of a law in idaho that prohibits

emergency abortion -- abortions in emergency medical situations that decision will likely be held before the election, there's a number of other decisions and a number of other initiatives that will take place before november, not to mention the ballot initiatives that will take place on election day, this isn't like one of these things where joe biden has manufacture it into existence. and multiple inflection points we'll talk about it because something big happening legislatively or in the court system. >> this is an issue, this is the kind of health care that doesn't do politics. republican and democrats in florida, women who need health care are going to find themselves in a bind. to say the least. whether they're pregnant or not, whether they need a termination

or not, maybe they have fibroids, there will be procedurals they can't get, thanks to donald trump. this is on trump. in florida, you know, between donald trump and ron desantis, you've got a team there that really made a landscape for women that's down right dangerous and republican women and the men who love them are going to find themselves having to leave the state just to get basic health care, thanks to donald trump. so, susan, let's talk about your new book, it focuses on the life and times of legendary broadcast journalist barbara walters, back in 1980 walters was granted a relatively rare interview with richard nixon, following his resignation from the presidency years earlier at the very end of their nearly hour-long talk, walters asked nixon this.

>> in just a few seconds we have left now, time for a yes or no, are you sorry that you didn't burn the tapes? >> you know interestingly enough, everyone in europe i talked to said, why didn't you burn the tapes? the answer is, i probably should have but mainly i shouldn't have installed them. because johnson's system was there -- >> you'd burn them in. >> yes. i think so. because they were private conversations. subject to misinterpretation as we have all seen. >> susan page, talk about that book, that moment and some other captivating revelations about the trail blazer for us all. >> such a classic barbara walters question in eight words she managed to put a former president on the spot.

the kind of question that she would have worked on for weeks and weeks beforehand. you know, mika, the thing that struck me about barbara walters is, she became incredibly famous, i think it's easy to forget how hard it was for her to get there. the price she paid. things are a whole lot different for women in broadcasting, women if journalism than it was for barbara walters. lot of that credit goes to barbara walters. >> yes. for sure. >> susan, you kind of led me to my question, i'm thinking back to when barbara walters, in the early 1960s got a job as researcher at nbc.

they called her a "today" girl, can you speak for a generation who knows her name and has seen her face and watches old clips and understand that she's famous and a significant figure just how important she was as a role model, as an example not just for women but for all of us in this business? >> she didn't have a model. no woman had done she proposed to do and she didn't have a mentor. she was there on her own. when she got to be on "today" and participate in interviews with frank mcgee, frank mcgee set a rule, a stated rule that she could not speak until he had asked the first three questions. now, can you imagine that? >> whoa. >> yet she took that in a way she took lemons and made

lemonade. she set up interviews outside the interview. so that she could ask all the questions in the interview. >> that's amazing. the new book is entitled "the rulebreaker." susan page, thanks so much for coming on this morning and congratulations on the book. amazing. coming up, another labor union is set to endorse president biden today. we'll be joined by the group's leader who says donald trump broke the promises he made while in the white house to them. plus the senate just passed a package of foreign aid bills which includes critical funding for ukraine and minority leader mitch mcconnell is blaming two people for the long delay in getting it approved. we'll play for you his comments on that. "morning joe" will be right back. ll

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. welcome back. it's 39 past the hour. cloudy day in washington, d.c. at a white house meeting in january of 2017, the head of north america's building trades union praised then-president donald trump for committing to

improve the lives of labor workers. >> we just had probably the most incredible meeting of our careers with the president, the vice president and the senior staff, when the president laid out his plans about how he's going to handle trade, how he's going to invest in our infrastructure and level the playing field for construction workers and all americans across this country and then took the time to take everyone into the oval office and show them the seat of power in the world. the respect the president of the united states just showed us and showed to 3 million of our members in the united states was nothing short of incredible. >> well, that was then and this is now. one thing to say something, another thing to do it. fast forward to today where the nabtu is endorsing president biden's campaign and launching a nationwide effort to keep trump from ever returning to the white

house. in a statement and accompanying video the group's president said trump broke those promises he made to union leaders when he first took office. >> you're promising america tonight you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody. >> except for day one. >> donald trump, he's not a good man, he's not a good person, he doesn't care about anybody in this world, except donald trump. that's it. that's all. >> very clear and present danger. >> now he's looking to get into that position again to exert revenge on people. i go back to the '80s with donald trump and him trying to get his mug on page six of the new york post. the only difference between the donald trump of the '80s and today, he feels free to let his dark side out and very, very

dangerous for this country. we can't let our democracy dis -- he personally committed to me get our pensions fixed. he assured me, i'm the president of the united states, i'll just call mitch and put it in the bill. that was wasted breath. there were lots of other things put in that bill, tax cuts put in that bill for rich people. donald trump promised infrastructure every year. >> infrastructure is the easiest of all. >> donald trump was not interested in any of the policy that actually goes along with being president of the united states. trump was interested in the pomp and circumstance, the plane, the helicopter, it's all about him.

donald trump is incapable of running anything, let alone the most powerful country in the history of the world and god help us if he gets anywhere near that white house in the future. >> sean mcgarvey joins us now. thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. that was a pretty powerful video and a real turnaround from when you first endorsed former president trump or at least listen to him and hoped his promises would come true, what do you say to hardworking americans who don't have time to, you know, clue in on every detail of every trial he's involved in or every promise he made to support trump almost blindly but they connect with him, even members of your union, what do you say to them about who this man is? >> well, quite honestly, we're not going to waste a lot of time

talking to every american who support donald trump. because we're not going to change their minds. what we're going to concentrate is 10% to 15% of our members we can have a conversation with and explain to them the facts, give them the projects they're working on, the way they're feeding their families today. three monumental pieces of legislation, after he saved our pensions that are now creating the biggest infrastructure boom this country has ever seen, we call it the infrastructure generation that joe biden's creating and in our opinion it's the only time in history we can compare to is when the g.i.s came back from saving the world from tyranny and came back to build a middle class and their own lives, that's kind of the scale that we're at right now

with the most pro-union president that this country, pro-worker president this country has ever seen, so that's the conversations that we're having, we'll have them one-on-one, we'll have them in the key states and we've got months and months. we already started. we're already laying out the facts and we're seeing the results. >> sean, good morning. we'ring looing at this list of other unions that have endorsed the president. you're not alone. as you say in that ad, it became a punch line to the trump years it was infrastructure week, he was about to get to infrastructure, spend that trillion dollars he promised you he was going to spend on infrastructure, which never gave, november 2021, president biden is in the white house, $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill that went out the door and you can see the signs all over the country, when you say biden is the most

pro-union president in history that's a huge claim, what makes you say that? >> well, we can say that by not only by the legislation he passed and the language that ensures those jobs will be good, middle-class sustaining jobs from construction jobs, the labor standards involved in those jobs via the raeg la toir work that's been done that was passed in the legislation, we know that, these are going to be good middle class family sustaining jobs. >> mike barnacle joins the table now. >> sean, that was a pretty good definitive outline you had in that spot we just watched. you clearly know the members of

your union, but tell me, what's your instinct, why do so many of the union members you represent still have a cultural hold on donald trump and want to vote for him? >> well, i think quite honestly, my membership reflects the country, so that base of support that donald trump has, that 25% or 30% of people that would stay with him for whatever reason are going to stay with him and that quite honestly to us in our history doesn't matter to a winning or losing candidate, what matters is the 15% of people who are persuadable, open to hearing the facts and making up their own mind with them and their family around the kitchen table and saying, you know what, our lives have changed for the better because of the work that joe biden and kamala harris have done. we'll change our mind in how we

vote this time. forget the baggage, all the threats, lot of our members are patriots and they don't like the way the ex-president is talking about what he's going to do if he's elected to another term. we want what's best for this country and not just for the building trades but for the whole of the country. we know that joe biden and kamala harris have led us out of the wilderness through the pandemic and created opportunities we haven't seen since world war ii. >> stick with the pocketbooks, what do you fear most, what do you hope for most and what do your members think is the biggest priority for voting for joe biden? >> it's jobs and rising wages

quite honestly and control some of the costs associated with being a family in the united states. we've negotiated our greatest increases in the last couple of years under joe biden. we've seen some of the biggest contracts negotiated with the most generous settlements that we've seen in decades and decades if you take u.p.s. or the uaw, the same thing is happening around our bargaining table. they see themselves moving forward economically now. backing up, the jobs are so abundant, today when the president is done we'll give you him a pair pof customized work boots because we have so many jobs, when we get short we might call 1600 pennsylvania avenue and say, we need for a few days

on a infrastructure project. >> you came out and endorsed president biden, then candidate biden in october 2020 just a few weeks before the election, this time you're doing it more than six months out. the question is now, okay, you've made this statement, what does it look like practically on the ground in a state like pennsylvania or wisconsin, knocking on doors -- spending money, what does the next six months look like? >> we'll probably send tens of millions of dollars in three states, we'll have an army of people that are members of our unions that will talk to other members of the unions and lay out the facts. how you vote is a personal

individual thing. we just want to make sure our people are armed with the right information. once we give our members the information, they're very smart people they'll make the right decision. they just need the information. we'll provide the information in one-on-one, small groups, union meetings, where we gather across the battlefwroubd states. through some of the work we've done in field, you know, we're changing hearts and minds. they're going, my god, i didn't realize my job was created by the bipartisan infrastructure bill. great increases if our collective bargaining. another thing, i don't think it's an accident the great work of the uaw winning an election

in tennessee the most powerful man in the world, the president of the united states for the past 3 1/2 years has talked about unions, unions and unions. and people having their ability to stake their claim for what they're worth. he's giving workers in this country confidence that they're worth it and they should demand it and i see great things and huge organizing wins that we have had and ones that are coming based on support of the president of the united states. he's making a huge difference. the only person we can compare him to is fdr and the difference between fdr and oweden was at this point was fdr was -- he did great things for working people in this country, he wasn't interested in spending any time with him. joe biden is just as comfortable in a cafeteria in a manufacturing facility eating

with workers or on a construction site when it's 5 degrees. that's the difference. >> he's probably more comfortable there. sean mcgarvey, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning and making the case. really appreciate it. sam stein, the video we just saw of president biden i believe on the line with union workers, the first president who's done that, he's gotten a lot of endorsements in the past few weeks from unions across the country, he's visiting swing states, he's visiting florida, part of campaigning is being there and delivering the results. then owning your accomplishments and that's what joe biden is doing day by day, slowly but surely while donald trump sits

in a courtroom, do you think this could make the difference especially with the contrast at hand? >> yeah, i mean, i think everything helps on the margins. to sean's point, the image of him on the line at the uaw plant in michigan it was indeed the first time a president has ever done that. that's historic. these things don't happen in a vacuum, they happen because of the support of the president and you know he better or worse earned the endorsements he's getting. they'll matter on the margins. i will say what stood out to me in the interview and in the ad that the building trades union is airing, the first thing they focused on in that ad was not the legislation that biden has passed it was on the temperament

on trump and the threat that he poses and sean mentioned that in his interview, look, this is a threat to democracy and i'm sure that's deliberate. i think they know that it's not just that the pensions are shored up and wages may be rising again, temperamentally they want someone differently in the white house. >> still ahead, transportation secretary pete buttigieg will join us with a big announcement regarding airline refunds and hidden fees. there are so many. what this now means for consumer protections. plus, author salman rushdie will be with us as he reflects on the knife attack. knife atta.

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on his way out of the courthouse, grover cleveland stopped to tell reporters how uncomfortably cold it is in the room and how very unhappy he is to be there. >> he's keeping me in courtroom that's freezing by the way, keeping me in a courtroom all day long, while he's out campaigning, probably an

advantage. >>. >> you're about two put two prison sentences together. >> oh, my. welcome back to morning joe. i didn't see that coming. joining us the conversation we have u.s. special correspondent for bbc news katty kay. and host of the fast politics podcast, molly jong-fast. the first witness for the prosecution in donald trump's criminal hush money trial returned to the stand yesterday, let's get a wrap-up of what happened with senior legal correspondent laura jarrett. >> reporter: mr. trump's longtime friend david pecker the former publisher of the national enquirer offering the jury a rare glim intoops the underworld of tabloid tactics as the state seeks to prove that the former

doctored his documents just days before the 2016 election. pecker describing a meeting at trump tower in 2015 with mr. trump and his former fixer michael cohen where pecker said he agreed to serve as the eyes and ears for rumors that could hurt donald trump. what i would do is publish positive stories about trump and publish negative stories about his opponents. a series of glowing headlines about then-candidate trump and derogatory ones making baseless claims of his opponents like ted cruz. pecker admitting that enquirer made up a story linking cruz's father to the man who assassinated jfk. trying to save mr. trump and the

campaign the potential embarrassment. the day began with the judge taking the defense team to task about mr. trump's posts on social media. targeting cohen and stormy daniels. the state seeking to hold mr. trump in contempt. >> so they can talk about me, they can lie, but i'm not allowed to say anything. >> reporter: in court the defense arguing that mr. trump should be permitted to respond to political attacks and the gag order should not cover reposts of someone else, the judge didn't rule -- telling lead defense attorney todd blanche you're losing all credibility with the court. minutes later during a break, donald trump back on truth social falsely writing that the judge had taken away his right to free speech. >> nbc's laura jarrett reporting

for us there. let's bring in andrew weissman and charles coleman. andrew, the first part of the day was the hearing on the gag order, whether or not donald trump violated the gag order, the d.a.'s office said he's done so ten times. the second part of it is the ongoing testimony of david pecker. let's start with the gag order, did the d.a.'s office, did the prosecution make a compelling case in your eyes that donald trump has violated that gag order and if you believe they have what is the fallout in. >> of course he violated it. we can all hear and see exactly what he did. and there's no defense at all even if you were to say that reposting is not a violation, which by the way, there's nothing in the order that shows reposting is not a violation.

he didn't simply repost. he actually, you know, said his own words, violations that don't even fall in that category as judge merchan noted. the penalty, one thing he could do is find him in contempt but hold what the essential citizens and sort of and have that over his head. he appoint a monitor, he could appoint one of his lawyers, to oversee before any truth social goes out or any public statements are made it has to be run by her. there are tools he has in his tool kit above and beyond than simply fining him.

judge doesn't want to jump immediately to jalg him. there are things he can do in the interim. >> it's clear that donald trump is trying to call a bluff maybe we'll see if judge merchan levels the fine to begin with. let's talk about the testimony, andrew, then of david pecker which came after that gag order hearing. we'll hear from him again on thursday. how damaging is this? we knew all this, a lot of this, over the years, a reminder of how ugly it is and a look behind the curtain of the process. how pecker worked directly with him to get these stories planted that could be damaging to his opponents in 2016. what did you hear in that testimony yesterday? which way did it cut for you? >> i think there's both a legal aspect to that and a big picture

aspect that might be viewed as sort of a political repercussions aspect, i thought what david pecker said was truly shocking and the only reason that i think we're maybe a little bit -- to what he had to say is because of fox news and dominion. you step back what he said was, that a media outlet even if it's considered a downmarket media outlet was in cahoots with one political candidate, that's what happens in russia. that's not supposed to happen here. you may accuse news outlets for having biases but that's far different than having an explicit agreement with a candidate to only promote stories that help him, to squash stories that would hurt him and disseminate stories that are

denigrating your political opponents. he talked about being at ground zero of that fake news scheme with the former president in order to get him elected. why is that legally important? for the state to prove its case it needs to show that there was a crime that was being furthered or covered up by the false business records and that crime among others is state election fraud and ami through the national enquirer was engaged in that state election fraud. both had a public resonance component and legal component i thought it was a pretty devastating way to start the case. >> you know, it did seem devastating on so many levels and it pulled back the curtain on these things are done.

mike, i can't think of anyone who has heard donald trump's case up to this point more than pecker, yet, he doesn't post about pecker, he doesn't rant about pecker, he talks about michael cohen, he talks about other witnesses, what's the deal? why so quiet about pecker in. >> maybe pecker has something on him that donald knows and only pecker knows. i certainly don't know, mika. what andrew is just saying, we ought to think about that a little bit more because i think out there in this country, people, ordinary people have heard about the news media for eight, nine years now, cataloguing it as fake news by one of the most important people in the country unfortunately the former president of the united

states and i don't know that a whole lot of people would be that shocked at the testimony about what the national enquirer was engaged in. charles, my question to you is, when you look at the transcripts of what happens each day in court, the back and forth national enquirer was engaged in for compensation, is there anything illegal thus far that's been mention snd. >> i don't necessarily know that david pecker gets off because he didn't do anything illegal, he's subject to an immunity agreement with the federal government which is why we're not seeing him being prosecuted as part of this overall scheme. it's important to understand that this is conversation that's literally for an audience of the jury, we're consuming it as on

sebbers. what the prosecution is doing laying out a case legally that will paint a picture for the jury and they'll ultimately talk about where donald trump broke the law. david pecker is supposed to set the stage and that's exactly what he's doing. >> andrew, how much longer do you expect the prosecution to keep david pecker up on the stand, another few hours, another few days they'll want to question him? >> so, i think that we still have a lot to get through, we really haven't gotten to the stormy daniels piece yet. as devastating as sort of the background is and how you have david pecker and the former president forming this scheme in 2015, we still haven't gotten to

all of the stormy daniels material as well as the testimony that was previewed in the opening that david pecker, after the president is elected essentially gets atta-boy at the white house, why is that important? because it was about the campaign, not doing this because they wanted to get damaging information from melaina trump. the so-called john edwards defense. one thing about this prosecution team that's very same the prosecution team as the trump organization tax case the criminal case, conviction about a year and a half ago, this team really knows to get in and out not to overtry its case. i would not expect him to be on the stand on direct examination or for more than a day, they'll try to keep it tight and then it's going to be very

interesting to see how the defense cross-examines him, because i think to mika's point, you know, you don't know what it is that david pecker might have up his sleeve, if they do a hard cross it's unclear exactly what will happen. i don't anticipate that kind of cross-examination. as bad as it is now it could get worse. >> yeah, they may want to stay away from attacking pecker. molly jong-fast, defendant trump is not helping candidate trump. explain. >> you know, trump did really well during the primaries by using his indictments to get his base excited and there were a lot of people in the pundit world who thought that might scale somehow with more normal main stream voters and i always

had been suspicious of that. six days of the trial is that in fact that candidate trump is not served as being a criminal defendant. which seems obvious but i think a lot of people maybe there was sort of three-dimensional chess play that was going on here. we haven't seen that. >> and charles, want to get a sense of what we're looking -- what we expect over the next few days in this trial, also tomorrow, the supreme court, oral arguments in the immunity defense, i guess donald trump has a number of different cases that are having hearings or events at the same time. >> this is a big week for him legally. when you're talking about the hush money case in new york, obviously we're going to see david pecker's cross-examination, i'm interested to see how that plays

out and we'll see another witness from the prosecution who's still going to tell the story and begin to paint the picture in greater detail, i think it's important early on in the prosecution has done this, they draw in the jury, make it clear what this case is and they give him a real-life picture of what happened. as far as the supreme court, this cannot be understated in terms of its importance because it impacts pretty much both of his federal cases in terms of how they move forward and what happens next. even though he won't be there everyone else will be watching with bated breath anything can be gleaned from the justices' questions and their attorneys. >> charles koehlman and andrew weissman, thank you both very much

still ahead on morning joe, the senate has passed a critical foreign aid package paving the way to provide billions of dollars for ukraine and other allies. but first, transportation secretary pete buttigieg is standing by. he joins the conversation with announcement on airline fees. that's next on morning joe. we'll be right back. (tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust.

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20 past the hour. the department of transportation is cracking down on the airline industry this morning. under new regulations that were just announced, airlines will be required to issue cash refunds automatically should flights be severely delayed or cancelled. in addition, airlines must now make abundantly clear what fees are charged when it comes to things like baggage, cancellations and more. joining us now to talk about the new regulations is u.s. transportation secretary pete buttigieg. secretary, it's very good to see you and these make sense, all these types of fees that are surprise fees or last minute, they're infur rating, are there any regulation changes coming or rules come that will make flying

safe. >> that's right, our primary mission as a department is safety, why the faa has boeing under a microscope why we have so many steps from staffing to technology, to make sure that we maintain the extraordinary safety record that the u.s. has in aviation. then you have consumer protection, our major priority when it comes to airline sector, we've been on a mission to deliver the biggest expansion in passengers' rights in decades and this is one of the biggest moments in that journey, we've been working on this regulation for more than a year it includes everything to make sure you get your money back when your flight is cancelled or significantly delayed. and making it very clear, what you're paying in the first place, the whole idea of capitalism you're supposed to be as a consumer to comparison shop but if you don't know the difference between things you're

buying, then it's not a free and fair marketplace. so this rule speaks to all of those things. we think it's going to make a big difference and change airline behavior knowing that every passenger on a flight that's cancelled will be getting their money back by default will change the economic incentives for airlines as we're pressing them to make sure their schedules are realistic in first place. >> mr. secretary, good morning. you feel like you pay a ton of money just to take the flight and when you arrive at the airport you feel like you're being nickelled and dimed again. i paid this money for the flight, why do i have to pay for the bag. it just feels like they're trying to exact every nickel out of a traveler.

>> yay, they've developed this business model especially over the last ten, 20 years, there are little charges, upcharges and the worst thing is when it's surprise charge, look if you know you're paying extra because you want something extra that's one thing, some cases where passengers are made to feel like they bought their ticket and they'll have to pay extra just to have a seat, we're requiring airlines to clarify you get to sit on the plane if you bought a ticket to be on the plane. the other thing, though, that's really important here is the default, it sounds technical, the fact that by default without having to ask you you'll automatly get money back on any form of payment you used to buy the ticket in first place. if you have a cancellation and a significant delay, you had to

fight for it. lot of times what the airline would do, here's 5,000 miles that might sound great if you're not aware that 5,000 miles is worth 50 bucks and you're entitled to say 400 bucks in a ticket refund. this clarifies all that. unless the passenger go out of your way to say you want a voucher. >> delay after delay after delay, i never check a bag, i'm used to sitting in the confines of a seat with a passenger next to me could easily pick my pocket and i would never know it, but my real concern is and i want you to try to answer, what's the status of air traffic controllers in this country, do we have enough of them?

do they get overtired? do they pay attention the way they did eight, ten years ago? >> the answer is we need more and we're hiring more. you know, if you look at a chart over the last 30 years, the number of air traffic controllers has gone down and down. until recently until we finally got that number going up. 1800 this year. we're requesting a budget from congress that will let us hire 2,000 next year so you don't have as much concern of them being overtired. you need to make sure those controllers are on top of their

game. now these controllers are pros. it's extraordinary what they do. we need to support them for that very reason with the right kind of space between their shifts, with more controllers coming into their ranks and importantly with better technology. we're working toup fwrad that technology right now. we're asking congress right now for a mandatory account making it easier for the faa to plan, so these controllers have everything they have to succeed. >> my question might be kind of small compared to what mike just asked, about regulations for fees, i just want to ask, maybe i'm alone here, but how many of you folks are on a plane and you get wifi and you finally get on and then the wifi doesn't work and then you paid for wifi that doesn't work, am i alone.

why do we have to pay for wifi? go ahead. >> this happened to me the other day and one of the things in this regulation, if you pay for wifi and it doesn't come through, you get money back. these little things add up. however you fly, however often you fly you're way protected now than you were four years ago, this rule is the latest big step toward that. >> u.s. transportation secretary pete buttigieg thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. always good to see you, sir. and coming up, nearly two years after being attacked on stage, renowned author salman rushdie is opening up about the

traumatizing event. he joins us with his new memoir called "knife." "morning joe" will be right back. " will be right back

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33 past the hour. author and activist salman rushdie has spent a lifetime fighting for his work, first living in fear for decades after the leader of iran issued a -- of him in 1989 over his novel

the satanic verses. when rushdie was attacked and nearly killed while giving an interview in new york, the attacker stabbed him more than a dozen times causing the award-winning author to lose sight in one eye. in his new book, it's not only a personal recount of that day but his personal journey of recovery that followed. thank you so much for coming on the show and for writing this book. >> thank you. >> despite the title, despite the title and the event that inspired it, it's a book about healing. you told pbs, it's the story of the knife attack, but you started to think of it in another way, a more metaphorical

way, a knife, a tool you can use to cut through things, how writing this book impacted you, helped you, brought you to where you are today? >> it was very hard to write, especially the first chapter in which the actual details of the attack are given in great detail, that was very hard emotionally difficult to write. one i got past that it got easier and it began to flow more smoothly. people have asked me if it was kind of therapeutic. i wouldn't say therapy because i had therapy. therapy is therapy and writing is writing in my view. what it did do was give me control of the narrative.

>> so, salman, your story, telling your story, the degree of difficulty of recounting of what happened to you, you were at death's door. what was it like knowing that you could die, i mean, you were badly wounded, knowing that you could die -- >> it was fairly clear i thought i was going to die, lying on the floor with blood pouring out of me, i thought this was probably it. one of the things i wanted to try and show in this book, because as my editor said to me, not many people have a really near-death experience and then come back to tell the story, so could i please tell the story. what was interesting was not what happened. no tunnel of light. no kind of feeling of lifting

out of your body. none of that. i said in the book i rarely felt so connected to my body. a very physical experience. that confirmed my longtime godlessness. >> do you remember who if anyone who thought of, anyone close to you -- >> that was the worst bit. was feeling i was dying far away from the people i love. in the company of strange. that -- it was a feeling of, i mean, loneliness. here i am by myself in a strange place with strange people around me and everyone i care about is far away. that was the worst part. >> we've known each other a long time and i remember knowing you right after -- and you were i always thought of you as a person who was brave, who was

not -- who did not -- you had security but you still did stuff, you write when it happened that you were like it's caught up with me now, can you talk about your trajectory and then what happened. >> it started in 1989 as you know, the next i guess almost nine years were kind of maximum security period, but i came to live in new york city almost 25 years ago now, and for 23 of those 25 years life was pretty normal, you know, i was living the kind of life that writers have. i was doing book tours and readings and lectures and sitting at home for long periods of time writing. it felt as if the trouble had passed. so when this man came out of the

crowd and ran at me, i said in the book it felt like something like a time warp, something from an earlier age cropping up in the present and it was quite -- it was a real -- obviously it was very unpleasant but very surprising. >> salman, i'll try to make a linkage here, but you're a writer who has frequented his own life in danger for the cause of writing, we're in position now in the states where a major literary is being cancelled because they've withdrawn their submissions because of the war in gaza, i wonder how you feel about that and what it tells you about the situation we're in in america, so hat hot and so divided and angry, maybe you

feel these are writers standing up for the cause of gaza and something needs to be done to put a spotlight on that human suffering. >> i understand a lot of the anger but i think it's very sad -- i feel sorry for writers who have been nominated for these awards, many of whom could do with the money, it's one thing, legitimate to say that pan american hasn't spoken up, everybody has that right to protest, but i don't see why -- you know, writers from around the country nominated for prestigious prizes why they should be made the fall guys for this. that's sad. >> the new book is entitled

"knife," salman rushdie, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning and thank you for writing the book. we appreciate it. >> thank you. still ahead, we have update on donald trump's hush money trial and the gag order against the former president. plus the latest from columbia university as the demonstrations and the school appear to have an agreement to scale back the protests. we'll explain that ahead on "morning joe." nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment

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live look at a foggy, hazy new york city at 450 past the hour. time now for a look at the morning papers aross the country. the montgomery advertise ideser is reporting on a new alabama law targeting human trafficking, the governor kay ivey signed the sound of freedom act calling it the toughest law in america on trafficking. the measure raises the penalty to a mandatory life sentence if the victim is a minor. the baltimore sun is covering the next phase of cleanup efforts on the collapsed remnants of the francis scott key bridge, a massive hydraulic claw arrived in baltimore last weekend to help lift bridge debris from the cargo ship and

surrounding waters. officials plan on opening a deeper, alternate channel for vessels to travel through the city's harbor as most ship traffic has been blocked since last month's fatal crash. the an ranch daily news spotlighting the effect on the child care crisis on mothers without college degrees. moms without higher education degrees are less likely to have paid leave and more likely to leave the workforce when faced with taking care of their child. in 2022 more than 1 in 10 young children had a parent who had to quit or change their jobs because of childcare problems due to high costs and limited care options. and the it can journal is taking a look at the growing crackdown on the spread of dollar stores across the country. critics say, stores such as dollar tree and family dollar

attract crime and promote food deserts in underserved areas with little access to healthy foods and at least 130 bans and restrictions have been imposed on the expansion of dollar stores. across the country. we'll turn back to politics now, republican senator thom tillis slammed a member of his own party yesterday, marjorie taylor greene. he did not mince words. when criticizeding greene's opposition to the legislation and her push to oust speaker mike johnson for helping to get aid to ukraine through the house. >> i think she's uninformed. she's a horrible leader. she's dragging our brand down. she -- not the democrats -- are the biggest risk to us getting back to a majority.

>> wow, that's pretty clear, molly, your latest piece for msnbc.com is entitled even trump has had enough of marjorie taylor greene's latest stunt. you write of greene's ongoing attempt to oust speaker-onson from his role, sailing, quote, late monday after greene told steve bannon she would continue her quest, trump himself, the grand duke of burn it down politics -- shot the whole idea down. we have majority of one, okay, it's not like johnson can go and do whatever he wants to do. i think he's a good person. whether or not trump's intervention makes a difference, the pile of house republican failures rises higher by the week. republicans allowed trump to pick their speaker, but it turns out he's about as good at picking speakers as.

what do you make of mike john son and how he's doing the job, i read this incredible also piece in the atlantic about speaker johnson and he's got a fascinating backstory that might explain how he might actually thread the needle here. >> yeah, i mean, what's so interesting is these republicans had such ambitious plans, they were going to impeach the first cabinet member in a hundred years, that died last week. they were going to impeach president joe biden on vibes. their witness went to jail. they had plans about going to impeachment joe biden and their witness went to jail, and they had bills when it came to appliances, and they had to postpone that and that is that serious stuff. they just thought they were

going to be able to do whatever they wanted. i was really worried this ukraine supplemental was not going to pass, because i didn't see a way that the burn it down caucus, the marjorie taylor greene and tommy massey crew wouldn't try to actually burn it down. what happened is pretty interesting, is mike johnson, for whatever reason and maybe it's because of classified stuff he saw, and maybe it's that trump did not really kill the supplemental the way he killed the border bill, and you will remember he told mike johnson not to take it to the floor, so mike johnson is doing whatever trump wants him to do, and for whatever reason, this went through. and congressional leadership have a lot to do with that, too. >> molly, you touched on something interesting about what happened, and even over just the

last couple of weeks between the relationship between donald trump and speaker johnson, and marjorie taylor greene, and that is that donald trump did not go after the speaker for doing this, and he goes down to mar-a-lago, and instead he's onboard that we have to get this money out to ukraine. he said, look, speaker johnson is a good guy and a tough guy and will do what he has to do, and it's almost like marjorie taylor greene and her group stepped out on the ledge and thought trump was behind them and looked back and he was not there. >> and trump is in a position of weakness, and he's sitting through a criminal trial. the pro putin caucus, we have seen more and more republicans come out about this, and like

mccall, he made a bold statement and the fact that the republicans did say this stuff did really help. they managed -- we will see what happens, but that crew, that burn it down crew is isolated, and that could serve the party and the world. >> it was interesting when marjorie taylor greene started being quoted in russian media, and i wish i could do the accent and i am bad about with that foreign accent, and you thought, she's being held up literally, and there are members of the republican party -- donald trump turned against her and turned in favor of the protecting the ukraine bill, and came back from a few days in europe, and the

sigh of relief having explored all the other options, america finally did the right thing. it's a reminder for awful us how incredibly important american leadership is. europe couldn't do this without the united states. in the end, mike johnson for whatever reason, whatever intelligence he heard, and donald trump went along witness, and america did the right thing. >> "vanity fair"'s malla, thank you for being with us. and we will show you new remarks penning the state's abortion squarely on the former president trump. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ng joe" is back in a moment

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i think everybody has their own assessment of president trump's character, and -- >> he described the dobbs decision as a miracle, and maybe it's coming from that bible he's trying to sell. whoa. i almost wanted to buy one to see what the hell is in it. >> republican senator mitt romney and president biden, willie, making jokes about donald trump. there was a lot to go around

yesterday. mitt romney, wow, bring it home, willie. >> yeah, mitt romney going in on that, and no love lost, and expect to hear more of that through the campaign. >> absolutely. it's a good point. you don't just pay $130,000 for nothing. that's for sure. we will have expert legal analysis on yesterday's testimony in the hush-money trial and the gag order against trump straight ahead. president biden's joke came while he was campaigning in florida on the issue of reproductive rights, and women's health care, blaming trump for overturning roe and the extreme abortion laws. we will show you more of the president's speech. trump was stuck in court in new york city, and a top republican

admits it's trump's fault that border security has not passed. we knew that, but to hear this republican say it really brings it home. willie, i had the news on yesterday, and if i heard the word pecker one more time, i was going to lose my mind, but he was the lead witness. >> yeah, david pecker, we should be clear. he was the witnessed in the hush-money case. it's april 24th, and along with willie and me, we have maura gay and deputy managing editor for politics at politico, sam stein is with us. willie, our top story has to do with, yes, david pecker. >> i am picking up on a theme this morning. i think you are enjoying saying his name. donald trump's hush-money trial is continuing tomorrow.

the judge held a hearing at the start of tuesday's proceeding to determine if the former president violated his gag order. prosecutors argued trump had done so at least ten times and wanted him held in contempt. the defense team argued he was reposting opinions of others on social media and was, quote, being careful about complying with the order. but the judge expressed extreme frustration with that argument and told attorney blanche he was losing credibility with the court. >> if i read every one of these articles, and i would read some of it and i will look at headlines, all good headlines,

and the case is a sham, but i can't read the whole thing, this is like reading a novel. so i put an article in it and somebody's name is mentioned somewhere deep in the article and i end up in violation of the gag order. >> so he says he's innocently reposting articles and the judge has not ruled on if he violated the gag order. let's hear from barbara mcquade and lisa. judge merchan yesterday very frustrated and heard the argument from the defense team that donald trump doesn't mean to be posting these things and he's not posting the whole article so it's not as bad. where do you see this heading?

>> toward a find of contempt, and the question is with what remedy. at this point, the d.a.'s office was clear that they were not seeking a term in jail, and so expect to see a written opinion from judge merchan in the next couple of days that talks about the intentional quality of trump's violations of the gag order. one of the things the d.a.'s office pointed out that i thought was savvy, and trump has talked about the gag order in many other posts and their point was trump knows exactly what he can and can't do tphrt gag order. if he didn't, he wouldn't be complaining about the structures of it, and he posted rampantly about the judge and d.a. and the process as a whole in ways that he understands full well do not

flout the gag order. expect to see a written opinion from judge merchan in the next couple of days that fines trump $5,000 to $10,000, and orders him to take the offensive post down with the warning the next violation will end with something worse. >> he goes outside to the bank of cameras and violates the gag order. let's say it's in the next couple of days the ruling comes down and it's $5,000 or $8,000 or how many counts of the violation of the gag order the judge deems donald trump has committed, and is that a step towards something else after that? i am not sure $7,000 is going to deter donald trump? >> yes, i think most judges like to use progressive discipline, and that is your first violation will get you one fine, and a

subsequent violation might get ahigher fine. this judge has the power to jail donald trump up to 30 days. it does seem that donald trump is almost trying to bait the judge here. he wants to, perhaps, demonstrate to his supporters that he's above the law and he can get away with anything he wants to, and on the other hand, you are damned if you do, damned if you don't. if you do jail donald trump, doesn't that fulfill his prophecy that this is a witch hunt to curtail his election efforts and interfere with the election. if i were judge merchan i would follow the advice of janet reno who said you are damned if you do or damned if you don't, so do the right thing. and many who repeatedly violated a gag order would find

themselves jailed, and that's what donald trump faces. >> david pecker returning to the witness stand for a second day. he's the former ceo of the parent company of "the national enquirer." pecker revealed he was present at trump's 2015 campaign announcement at trump tower and said former trump attorney, michael cohen, told him he should be there, and the three had a meeting and that's when they say the election scheme was hatched, and pecker said he would be their eyes and ears on stories that could be damaging to trump, and he told them he would run positive stories about trump and negative stories about his opponents, and senators ted cruz and ben carson.

"the enquirer" would embellish the stories, and pecker said he understood we to mean cohen and trump. barbara, i will start with you and then lisa. can you go back to what is the law that prosecutors are trying to prove that trump broke? what is the crime trump committed that he's sitting in court for? how does pecker's testimony help to corroborate that in any way? >> the law is falsification of business records to conceal the commission of another crime. i think what the prosecutors have done that is very helpful here is to start with the crime and then talk about the falsification of the business records as the cover-up. that's really what it was, and that's why it matters. here the crime is a statute under new york law, 17-152 that

makes it a crime to conspire to promote or prevent the election of any candidate to office by unlawful means. the unlawful means here is campaign expenditures without an intent to report them, and michael cohen paid $130,000, and "the national enquirer" paid the doorman and a payment to karen mcdougal, and so the moment the money changes hands, it's illegally, and they have the evidence of the illegal campaign expenditures, and that occurred in august of 2015 and extended all the way through the election and beyond throughout this cover-up. >> lisa, i'm curious about -- i know this is sort of looking at sort of the exterior things, but in the courtroom just the

demeanor of trump and just watching this closely from home, seeing him coming into court from the beginning, i feel like -- i don't want to overstate it, but he seems very subdued and it seems his colorful personality has almost turned gray, if i could, and i wonder if it's walking in and having to sit down and cameras in his face, and arch enemies in the courtroom every day, and is it getting to him or is it the case itself bothering him? all of it? what are you seeing in the courtroom play out? you think about david pecker sitting there and everybody asking david pecker or talking on the air about questions what data pecker knows, and i am thinking it's possible david pecker has a few more secrets about donald trump than the ones being discussed? >> i think you are absolutely right, mika. i expect david pecker to be on the stand through the end of the week. i think the prosecution still

has at least several more hours of direct testimony with david pecker. what makes me say that? first of all, we left off yesterday with the beginning of the karen mcdougal settlement, and that means we have to talk through that story, the stormy daniels' settlement and the enquire's involvement in that, and pecker was thanked by trump for his contributions to the election, so there's a lot of ground chronologically to cover, and lots of conversations to testify to, and that august 2015 meeting, trump and cohen invited him to that and when he got there asked him what can you do for us in relation to the campaign? what can you personally do? what can "the enquirer" do? that's when pecker came up with

i will be your eyes and ears. he had a conversation on the phone with trump about karen mcdougal, and he said michael has told me about karen, what do you think? we know from the beginning testimony, he talked to trump once he became a candidate at least once a week by phone and saw him in person once a month. what is particularly notable about that he saw and talked to trump more after he became a candidate than he did before. usually when people run for the president of the united states and become a major party nominee, they have a whole lot less time for other people in their life as they are going around the country, so we have a lot more to hear from pecker in the days to come. >> yeah, and i am trying to think what the jurors were thinking. when i was growing up -- i am not sure, you are a little younger, but i would go into the

grocery store with my mom and there was "the national enquirer," and there were pictures of people and crazy stories and the theme "the enquirer" could move the meter? is this surprising to the jury? do they see it as a joke like most of us in this world do or is it somewhere in the middle? >> i am glad you brought that up, mika, because one of the most disturbing parts as a journalist is david pecker's description is journalism, and i wouldn't call it journalism, in fact, and generally we don't pay for stories and news organizations tonight operate that way. "the national enquirer," it's a throwback. anybody under the age of 25 is saying what? who? what are you even talking about? >> yeah.

>> but i think it feeds into what you are talking about which is that you used to see at the grocery store right before you checked out, you would say, oh, gee, i wonder if that's true? that's the hallmark of what donald trump does and those around him and what he instructs them to dos to introduce doubt, to plant a seed of whether it's a conspiracy or a lie, and allow it to blossom kind of naturally. that seems to be what he was doing by using david pecker. >> for sure. >> i wonder, lisa, if you could talk about the defense's case here. do they have a leg to stand on? >> they do and they don't. one of the things that they have seed is nondisclosure agreements are perfectly lawful, and influencing an election is lawful.

it's called democracy. yes, isolation nondisclosure agreements are lawful, but in other words to influence an election by not reporting inkind or actual campaign expenses is not lawful, and they have a ton of direct evidence about the formation of the conspiracy and donald trump's knowledge and intent to carry out the payments through michael cohen and david pecker. what is harder to establish, and i think you saw this in listening closely to the d.a.'s opening statement, is when it comes to how it was papered over. yes, donald trump signed some checks. can they show on the other hand donald trump knew exactly what he was paying michael cohen for and understood that without relying entirely on michael

cohen? that remains to be seen. it will be far more dull, and that's the crime that they have to prove, they have to prove that he falsified business records or caused other people to do it with intent. >> you have to connect the dots, although most of us believe that's exactly what happened, and they have to prove that. sam, it was like reliving the 2016 campaign, and we are talking about ted cruz's father being involved in the jfk assassination, and there was a headline in the "national enquirer" during that campaign, that dr. ben carson left a sponge in someone's brain is what "the enquirer" put out there, and we all laughed at the

headlines when we were kids, and he would throw it out there at the rally and the audience would say, yeah, i did hear that. the biden campaign is hoping that people will be reminded of how exhausting and full of lies the trump years and the campaign and presidency were. >> i am surprised anybody would slander "the national enquirer." >> it's all i heard yesterday, like woody woodpecker, what is going on. pecker, pecker. i thought it was funny. >> it is funny. back on script, to willie's point. the meta story is you have biden on the trail and he's talking

about abortion and campaigning and doing the nuts and pwoelgts of politics and very conventional, and then you have donald trump in a courtroom, and he's distracted and can't do the things he needs to do on the campaign, and he's embroiled in literal tabloid controversial, and that's something the biden campaign welcomes. we were talking about the defense here, and i would ask this of barbara, too, and i think the defense is fairly easy here, right? which is this man, david pecker, ran "the national enquirer," which literally made up stories and peddled lies, and why should we believe he's telling the truth now? same with michael cohen, honestly, and he admitted he lied. why should we believe anything he has to say now? that to me, barbara, seems to be a powerful defense, to say these people are admitted liars and

you should not believe what they have to say. what would the prosecution do with that? >> sure, and that comes up in many criminal cases. you know, often times a prosecutor needs to use as a witness somebody that was a criminal associate of the defendant, and the common statement is to say in closing arguments, i didn't use the witnesses but the defendant did by associating with him closely, but the key is to find corroborating evidence so the jury doesn't have to take their word for it, and to find other witnesses that has credibility and to testify about it, that's where we will hear from people like hope hicks and we will see documents in the forms of checks and ledgers, and we will hear the recording where he talks about setting up the payments and consultants, and that's the way you rehabilitate the witness who will be beat up on cross-examination, you and you

can see that coming for david pecker and michael cohen, and it will be coming for stormy daniels as well if she testifies. very often that corroboration is enough to rehabilitate those witnesses. coming up, president biden visits florida and denounces the state's six-week abortion ban set to go into effect next week, may 1st. what he had to say about that and to hold donald trump accountable on the issue. "morning joe" is back in a moment. some people just know there's a better way to do things. and some people... don't.

bundle your home and auto with allstate and save. you're in good hands with allstate. president biden was on the campaign trail yesterday in donald trump's home state. the president gave a speech on reproductive rights one week before florida's six-week

abortion ban goes into effect. six weeks. he blamed trump for the repeal of roe v. wade and extreme abortion laws across the country. >> for 50 years the court ruled that there was a fundamental constitutional right to privacy. >> yes! >> but two years ago that was taken away. let's be real clear. there's one person responsible for this nightmare and he's acknowledging and brags about it, donald trump. well, you know, now trump says the law is, quote, working the way it's supposed to. trump goes on to say individual state laws are working -- his words, brilliantly. brilliantly. it's a six-week ban in florida. it's really brilliant, isn't it? even before women know they are pregnant. is that brilliant? he says it's up to the states, and this is all about states' rights. but he's wrong. the supreme court is wrong.

it should be a constitutional right in the federal constitution, a federal right, and it shouldn't matter where america you live, and it's not about states rights but women's rights. >> joining us now, washington bureau chief on "usa today," and it's titled "rule breaker." congratulations on the book. i wanted to ask about joe biden in florida, and just the flex of that, and donald trump is stuck in a new york city courtroom, a grimy courtroom, talking about his relationship with the head of the "national enquirer," david pecker, and stories they tried to move along to get to defame people, and stories they tried to hide so trump doesn't look bad. the whole thing is gross and

seedy and unseemly, and it may be surprising to people as to how all that works, and there you have joe biden in a state that will be hard to flip blue, but perhaps a six-week ban could give biden a fighting chance, and can you talk about that ban and how it's not reproductive rights and choice, and we will see the health in florida severely impacted by a ban like this? >> we know women overwhelmingly in this country think that's an unreasonable limitation on access to abortion, and that's republican women, too. it's hard to imagine democrats carry florida in november, but it's not hard to imagine that women in georgia, north carolina and arizona were listening to the president yesterday and nodding their heads in agreement when he talks about that florida

ban. >> what do you make of joe biden in florida, especially his comments on reproductive freedom? >> first of all, it's a flex and it's a reminder to donald trump, it's eventually joe biden saying to donald trump, you can't escape this, you did this, to use another campaign slogan. donald trump has bin milly mouthed. he said the dobbs ruling is working as it should, and other times he said certain states have gone too far. ultimately women and voters in america know exactly who it is that put the supreme court justices in place who, you know, ultimately struck down roe v. wade. i think it's going to be very difficult, if not impossible, for donald trump and the republican party to escape that responsibility, and women across america -- not just women are

extremely motivated by the issue. it's not just about people in florida, but people in michigan who are looking at this and saying, that's right, i am very angry. we saw referendums in that state in michigan, and referendums in kansas over the past few years. this is not a red state-blue state issue, and americans are furious over this and joe biden is reminding them why. >> even the biden campaign concedes florida may be a long shot but it's worth going there. it's to broadcast to not just florida but to the country, this is what donald trump has brought and donald trump has been tied in knots on the issue, and he came out and said this is a states right, and joe biden said this is what happens when you send it back to the states, and

kamala harris goes to arizona and says this is what happens when you send it back to the states. >> let me add to what maura said and say this is not something that will go away and it's not because joe biden will go to florida and kamala harris will go to arizona and say this is what is happening in your states, but because there's going to be news breaks on this issue. in arizona the legislature has to consider a law to overturn the supreme court's ban of abortion, that 1864 law. today at the supreme court there's the first hearing for a challenge of a law in idaho that prohibits abortions in emergency medical situations. that decision will likely be held before the decision. there's a number of decisions and other initiatives that will take place before november, not to mention the ballot initiatives that will take place on election day. this is not one of these things

where joe biden has to manufacture it into existence, but it will be one of the top three election issues from now until november, and there will be multiple inflexion points because of something big happening legislatively. >> susan stay with us. we want to look at barbara walters, a look at her trailblazing interviews, including one in particular, with former president richard nixon. that's next on "morning joe." ♪ ♪

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so susan, let's talk about

your book. it focuses on the life and times of legendary broadcast journalist, barbara walters. in 1980, walters was granted a relatively rare interview with richard nixon, and at the end of their nearly hour-long talk, walters asked nixon this -- >> in just a few seconds we have left now, and there's almost just time for yes and no, are you sorry you did not burn the tapes? >> interesting enough, everybody in europe that i talked to said why didn't you burn the tapes, and the answer is i probably should have, but mainly i shouldn't have even installed them because johnson's system was there and i had it taken out and shouldn't have put it in place. >> if you had it to do anything

else, you would have burned them? >> well, yes, because they were private conversations and subject to misinterpretation, as we have all seen. >> captivating revelations about the trailblazer for us all? >> such a classic barbara walters question, and in eight words she put the former president on the spot and make an acknowledgment that he wished he burned the tapes, and that's a question she worked on for weeks and weeks trying to ask him that question without giving nixon an exit door to dodge. lots of money and all this acclaim, and i think it's easy to forget how hard it was to get there, and how no women ever got there before and the price she paid. it's not like we have a perfectly level playing field

now, but things are a whole lot different for women in broadcasting and journalism, and a lot of that credit goes to barbara walters. >> susan, that led me to the question where i am thinking about barbara walters in the 1960s got a job as a researcher on the "today" show, and when she was good enough to be on the air, they called her the today girl, because it was a boys club, and correct me if i am wrong, and just how important was she has a role model, as an example, not just for women but for all of us in this business? >> she didn't have a model. no women had done what she proposed to do, and she didn't have much of a mentor either. she was out there on her own. it was a pretty lonely quest. she just pushed her way ahead into a field that was not ready

to welcome her. when she got to be on the today show, and frank mcgee was the host of the "today" show, and she could not speak until he asked the first three questions. >> whoa. >> and she took the lemons and made lemonade, and she set up her own interviews outside the studio so she could ask all the questions in the interview. >> that's amazing. the new book entitled "the rulebreaker:the life and times of barbara walters." congratulations on the book. thank you. >> thank you. we are going to be joined by one group's leader that says

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real solutions for kids and communities at aft.org at a white house meeting in january of 2017, the head of north america's building trades unions praised then president donald trump for committing to improve the lives of labor workers. >> we just had probably the most incredible meeting of our careers with the president and the vice president and the senior staff. when the president laid out his plans about how he's going to handle trade and invest in our infrastructure and level the playing field for construction workers all across the country, and then took the time to take everybody in the oval office and

show them the seat of power in the world, and the united states president just showed us, and that was nothing short of incredible. >> well, that was then. this is now. it's one thing to say something. it's another thing to do it. fast-forward to today where the nabtu is endorsing president joe biden's 2024 campaign and launching a nationwide effort to keep trump from ever returning to the white house. in a statement and accompanying video, the group's president, shawn mcgarvey said, trump broke those promises he made to union leaders when he first took office. >> you are promising america tonight, you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody. >> except for day one. >> donald trump, he's not a good man. he's not a good person. he does not care about anybody

in this world, except donald trump. that's it. that's all. now he's looking to get in that position again to exert revenge on people. i go all the way back to the '80s with donald trump and him trying to get his mug on page six of the new york post. the difference today is that he feels free to let his dark side out, and that's very dark and dangerous for this country. we can't let our democracy that we worked for and cherished just disintegrate with the wrong leader at the wrong time. i can tell you he personally committed to me he would get our pensions fixed, and he understood who was affected by these pensions. he assured me, i'm the president of the united states and i will call mitch and tell him to put

it in the bill, and is everybody going to love me? is everybody going to love me? yes, mr. president, fix the pension and everybody will love you. that was wasted breath. donald trump promised infrastructure every year. >> infrastructure is the easiest of all. >> donald trump was not interested in any of the policy that actually goes along with being president of the united states. trump was interested in the pomp and circumstance, the plane, the helicopter, it's all about him. donald trump is incapable of running anything, let alone the most powerful country in the history of the world and god help us if he gets anywhere near that white house in the future. >> and shawn mcgarvey joins us now. thank you for coming on the show this morning. that was a pretty powerful video, and a real turn around from when you first endorsed

former president trump, or at least listened to him and hoped his promises would come true. what do you say to hard-working americans that don't have time, you know, to clue in on every detail of every trial he's involved with or every promise he made, who support trump almost blindly but he connect with him, and even members of your union, what do you say to them about who this man is? >> well, quite honestly, we are not going to waste a lot of time talking to every american that supports donald trump and waste a lot of time with some of our members that support donald trump because we are not going to change their minds. what we are going to concentrate on is the 10 to 15% of our members who we can have a conversation with and explain to them the facts, give them the projects that they are actually working on and the way they are feeding their family today, and

how that project came about. it came about through three monumental pieces of legislation, after he saved our pensions that are now creating the biggest infrastructure boom we have ever seen, and we call it the infrastructure generation joe biden is creating and it's the only time in history we can compare it to is when the gi's came back from world war ii, came back to build the middle class and their own lives after they saved the world and that's the scale we are at right now, with the most pro union president, pro worker president this country has ever seen. that's the conversations we are having, and we will have them one-on-one and in the key states and we have months and months. we already started and we are already laying out the facts and we see the results. >> good morning. it's willie geist, and we are

looking at the list of unions that support the president. you are not alone. as you said in the ad, it became a punch line in the trump words it was the infrastructure week, and he was going to spend that trillion he promised in the infrastructure that never came, and 2021, biden is in the white house and the infrastructure bill went out the door, and that money, you can see the signs all over the country. when you say joe biden is the most pro union, pro worker president in history, that's a huge claim. what makes you say that? >> well, we can say that by not only the pieces of legislation he passed but by the language in the legislation that ensures those jobs will be good, from the manufacturing jobs that we are rebuilding in this country via the chips and science act to the construction jobs where we have the prerequisite labor

standards involved in the jobs, and via the regulatory work being done followed up in the legislation, so we know these are going to be middle class family sustaining jobs and my members will have many of those jobs. >> mike barnicle joins the table now and he has the next question. mike? >> shawn, that was a good definitive outline of donald trump, and you know the unions around the country, but tell me, what is your instinct? why do so many of the union members you represent still have a cultural hold on donald trump, still seem to want to vote for him? what is the deal with them? >> well, i -- i think quite honestly, my membership reflected the country, and so

that base trump has, the 20 to 30% of people that went with him will stay with him, and what matters is the 15% of people that are persuadable and open to hearing the facts and making up their own mind with them and their family around their kitchen table and saying, you know, our lives have definitively changed for the better because of the work that joe biden and kamala harris have done, and we will change our mind in how we vote this time. for get about all the baggage and rhetoric and all the threats, and also a lot of our members are patriots. they do not like the way this president -- the ex-president is talking about what he will do if elected to another term. believe it or not, we are capitalists and patriots, and not just for our trade but for the whole of the country, and

joe biden and harris let us out of the wilderness through the pandemic, and created unbelievable opportunities like we haven't seen since world war ii, and -- >> let's stick with the pocketbook initiative, and what do you fear most and hope for most? what do your members think is the biggest priority in voting for joe biden? >> it's jobs and rising wages, quite unhonestly, and the costs being associated with being a family in the united states, and we generous settlements that we've seen in decades and decades, if you take ups or the uaw. the same things happening around our bargaining tables. they see themselves moving forward economically now. to back it up, it doesn't matter

how much money you make in your collective bargaining agreement if you don't have a job because you're not going to make anything. the jobs are so abundant, today, quite honestly, when the president is done, we'll give him a pair of boots, customized work boots because we've got so much work. he has created so many jobs, when we get a little short, call 1600 pennsylvania avenue and say mr. president, we need you for a couple of days on an infrastructure project to help us out because we're short of people. where things stand in donald trump's hush money trial after a one-time friend of the former president testified about the back room deals aimed at helping donald trump's 2016 campaign. "morning joe" is back in a moment. moment

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coming up, we'll be joined by one of the stars of the critically acclaimed fx series show gun on the heels of last night's finale. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ack in a moment

. the day began with some fireworks, there were several heated exchanges between trump's lawyers and the judges in the hearing about whether he violated the gag order he said his arguments didn't make sense, he presented nothing, and he was losing all credibility with the court. blanche fired back, your honor, i lost all credibility when i agreed to represent donald trump. that is not an issue. >> this is a complicated issue about balancing rights.

basically the prosecution's argument is that a juror has the right to feel safe while serving on donald trump's jury. while donald trump's argument is that that juror lives at 34 west 52nd street, and maybe someone should pay that juror a visit and straighten them out. this gag order is serious. trump might have to pay up to $1,000 per violation. >> yeah, $1,000, that's not going to stop trump from talking. you got to deal with this like any other tantrum, you got to give trump an ipad with cocoa melon on it and let him zone out. >> donald trump's day in court will have expert legal analysis. just ahead on yesterday's gag order hearing, and testimony against the former president. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast and 9:00 a.m. in the east. along with willie and me, we have mike barnicle and katy tur.

we have donny deutsch, and cohost of "the weekend," symone sanders townsend. good to have you all with us. the supreme court is going to hear arguments on whether donald trump can claim immunity for his efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election. first the court will hear arguments today in a case concerning reproductive rights, raising the legal and political stakes heading into the november election. nbc news senior washington correspondent hallie jackson reports. >> reporter: a new flash point this morning in the battle over abortion rights with the supreme court set to hear arguments in another potential block buster case. the question, whether a federal law guaranteeing emergency care for patients overrides an idaho law banning most abortions with exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother. the biden administration says that federal law should take

precedence, arguing idaho's law requires doctors to wait until the health of a pregnant patient gets worse before deciding whether to perform an abortion. idaho's attorney in a statement accuses the administration of showing a reckless disregard for idaho's right to protect life. >> the biden administration has twisted this law. they're trying to use federal executive power when the law does not support it. >> reporter: with idaho allowed to enforce the near total abortion ban, for now, many ob/gyns are leaving the state. she says idaho's law has created a dilemma for doctors. >> the position on the ground is being stuck having to decide do i act now so she doesn't have any irreparable harm or wait until there's no longer a fetal heart beat that could risk her health. that's an impossible situation to be stuck in. >> this is the second major reproductive rights case in

front of the justices this term. two years after the landmark dobbs decision overturning roe v. wade. since then, more than a dozen states have put in place stricter abortion bans. the legal fight, raising the political stakes heading into the november election with voters likely to decide abortion rights on ballot measures this fall. president biden in florida tuesday slamming that state's six-week abortion ban set to go into effect just days from now, and pinning the blame on his predecessor. >> it was donald trump who ripped away the rights and freedoms of women in america. it will be all of us who restore those rights for women in america. >> so before we get to donald trump's unbelievable day in court yesterday in new york city, symone sanders townsend, idaho, florida, may 1st, a six-week ban going into -- this is across the country where women, democrats and republicans and the men who love them and the children who need them are

going to be going through trauma because they cannot receive medical care. and we're not talking about lines of nine months pregnant women outside abortion clinics like the kind of archaic way that republicans would like to paint the abortion issue. we're talking about women who may have fibroids, who may be going through menopausal symptoms. women who may not be pregnant but may need treatment that is along the lines of using procedures that are similar to that of terminations. and also women who have dangerous pregnancies or miscarriages. they're going to see this play out in realtime. it seems to me the timing is bad for republicans, and it's terrible for women. >> to say the least, mika, i think it's very clear that, you know, republicans across the country and republican activists and organizers have not been campaigning on for the last 50 years jailing women and doctors for receiving the care they

need. right? they have not been necessarily campaigning on criminalizing abortion. they haven't been campaigning on almost letting women die in hospital rooms and at homes all across the country, but that's exactly what has happened since the dobbs decision overturned roe v. wade and returned it to the states. this is not, i mean, i heard mara gay on earlier, and i want to vehemently agree with her. this is not about republicans versus democrats on this particular issue for the women and the families out there in the country. this is a health care issue, which is why i do think that the biden campaign and democrats writ large are on frankly very solid footing. the vice president, i have heard her talk about this as a health crisis in america, and that is exactly what this is. >> vice president harris has been in arizona. we saw the president in florida talking about that six-week ban. you can throw in alabama, and

the threat to ivf there. these are popping up all across the country and the biden campaign, and women across the country will make sure to highlight that. donald trump was back on social media railing against the judge in his new york city hush money trial. this comes after an eventful day in court yesterday, to say the least where a former tabloid publisher took to the stand to make allegations about the former president's 2016 campaign operations. nbc news senior legal correspondent, laura jarrett, has details. >> reporter: a trump insider tells all, david peck e the long time publisher of the "national enquirer" sitting for hours on the witness stand at former president trump's criminal trial. as the prosecution scrolled through pages of tabloid headlines, some praising donald trump, others making brazen, unfounded claims about his 2024 rivals, like ted cruz, all a product of what pecker described as a secret agreement among friends for him to help get mr.

trump elected. a plan that pecker also says involved paying people off so they couldn't go public like the $30,000 he gave a doorman who was shopping a false story about mr. trump fathering his housekeeper's baby, testimony revealed from the actual 34 counts mr. trump faces in the indictment for the alleged crime of falsifying business records. the likely gop nominee has denied all wrong doing, but prosecutors hope pecker will show the jury a long standing pattern of a presidential hopeful motivated to silence those that could derail his campaign and then covering his tracks with a phony paper trail. this as the judge is mulling whether the former president violated his gag order and must be held in contempt for attacking trial witnesses online. >> i'm not sure that anybody has seen anything like this. this is like reading a novel. so i put an article and somebody's name is mentioned somewhere deep in the article and i end up in violation of the

gag order. >> mr. trump's defense team now trying to fend off a $10,000 fine arguing that it's unfair to hold him accountable for reposting criticism others have voiced about certain witnesses. the judge appearing unpersuaded, eventually warning lead defense attorney todd blanche, you are losing all credibility with the court. >> nbc's laura jarrett reporting there. let's bring in investigative reporter for the "new york times," suzanne craig. she was inside the courthouse, also with us, former assistant district attorney in manhattan, nbc news legal analyst, catherine christian, good morning to you both. i'll start with you since you were down there yesterday. let's start with the gag order first. donald trump saying all i did was repost other people violating the gag order. that's a thin defense from the charges that he's violated the gag order ten times. we heard judge merchan becoming frustrated in the courtroom. do you suspect that we're going

to hear that, yes, in fact, he did violate the gag order and if so, is it a fine? what comes after that? >> it seems likely that's where it's heading. the judge was just very frustrated, at points growing angry over what todd blanche's presentation. at one point the judge is asking for precedent, bring me a legal argument for what you're saying, and todd blanche is saying there is no precedent. it's just common sense. and i think what donald trump was learning for his whole life words have had very little value to him, but in court, there's consequences for this. and i think we can see anything from a fine potentially to, you know, i'm not sure it's going to go to go to incarceration, that's an option. but i think there's some other things open to the judge. for example, there could be somebody put in place to vet his tweets, somebody maybe on his legal team or somebody else. i think there could be other things the judge is going to consider. one thing i felt certain about

sitting in the courtroom is something is going to happen to clamp down on this. >> catherine, you have been around for for a while in courts. ever seen anything like this? ever heard of anything like this? >> no, i've seen defendants misbehave because, you know, that happens, and it's interesting because judge merchan is the presiding judge of the mental health court in manhattan. he has been doing that for years. he's probably seen it. so i don't want to make light of that, but quite frankly, that's the only time i've seen it when you've had sort of an unwell person. donald trump obviously in the courtroom is now behaving himself but coming out of the courtroom and continuing to violate this gag order, that i haven't seen repeated violations. when you do see it, they get more than the fine, defendants. in the real world when you violate orders in the criminal world there's a consequence, and it's usually incarceration if it's repeated. >> do you want to guess how much money donald trump would raise

if he were incarcerated even for a night. >> and i don't think that will happen. what will the judge do after he fines him and this weekend, assuming that's what he does, what is the judge going to do. >> we hear he's slumped over, cold, when he walks in, he looks at the jurors. >> he's cold, he's hot. there's a lot going on there. i've got a view of him because i'm in an overflow room, and we've got a monitor where i can see him. if i had to describe, you know, there's been occasions where he has, i think, nodded off, and we're very careful when we report that. there's been a couple of times where he's had his eyes closed, is he sleeping, i don't know, but occasionally his head will go down while his eyes are closed and then it will snap back up. there was one incident on i think it was tuesday where his lawyer passed him a note and he had his eyes closed and i was watching it, and he had to nudge

him awake. he jolted awake. for the most part, he has a scowl on his face, that would be 90% of the time, and he's sometimes looking just dead ahead, watching the proceedings. he seemed engaged with watching pecker, there wasn't a lot of emotion. the one time we saw him animated, smiling or laughing, there were two jurors who had read "art of the deal," there was one juror who said she was watching tv on her coach. that's the only time we have seen him light up. >> never underestimate his ability to be flattered when somebody said they've read one of their books. we are a couple of days into testimony. i wonder if you could give a score card on how you think the prosecution is doing up until now? how is it going? >> so far, and i always caution people, direct examination, wait for the cross because direct, you can have a witness who does well, and the prosecutor sits

down and says phew. you have an excellent defense attorney who can come up and not just destroy a witness but make points for their case. mr. pecker has been very good for the prosecution. he has been very credible in that he is his authentic self. i'm a checkbook journalism guy. this is what i do. what he also does, which the defense will cross him on, he spent his career as a publisher lying, having stories in the "national enquirer" that aren't true. they could make use of that. but in terms of establishing the conspiracy, the trump tower meeting after donald trump announced his candidacy it's very important that david pecker establish that. he's the one who's going to be the eyes and ears, and michael cohen was the go-to person who's going to learn about the negative stories and give donald trump the heads-up. david pecker is important in establishing the conspiracy that allegedly exists. >> so suzanne, i want to get to

donnie and the dynamic of no crowd out there clapping and applauding and waving signs. we'll get to that in a moment. first, in terms of his behavior in and out out of the courtroom and the gag order, i'm wondering if it strikes you at all just from covering this that he hasn't mentioned pecker in his truth social posts or any of his rants. it just seems like he's dancing around that one. maybe that's just me, but he goes after michael cohen. he goes after other witnesses but not pecker. thoughts? >> absolutely right. and michael cohen has been very vocal in going after him. and they have sort of a sparring match. david pecker has not entered this at all in terms of any sort of social media posts that donald trump has done. you know, you're left to wonder and we just don't know, is there

a reason behind the scenes. is there something about the relationship between the two men, something they know about each other that's causing him to hold back. we just don't know. so far it hasn't happened, and it didn't happen overnight. i just also want to say, david pecker is going to be very interesting on cross-examination. we don't know, first of all, what will come up about him, what donald trump may know that could come up, and it's also, to counter point, it was an excellent point, david pecker has been -- i found him very credible on the stand in terms of his presentation, but you have to remember, it seems now at this point donald trump and david pecker are the god fathers of fake news, and that's going to hurt david pecker when cross-examination comes. he's saying they made up stories, and i think they're going to use that to undermine his credibility. you're absolutely right. so far there's been nothing on social media from donald trump to david pecker. he's holding back on that. >> yeah, he doesn't touch it.

all right. so first knowing him, but both of you, about sort of the showman that donald trump is. you know he loves to have his rallies, he gets the crowd going. they're screaming. they're applauding for them saying the most disgusting things about january 6th hostages and a choir and crowds going wild. they love it. he loves it, and he's got this energy. and he walks outside the courtroom, and every day he's got this opportunity before walking in and after walking out to talk to the cameras. but i think it's a very different scene. it's dark, it's gloomy, he's got the worst fluorescent lighting going right through his hair. i just wonder if he feels just not like he can really do his thing from this position, and also the people taking pictures and asking questions. it's the new york media.

maybe some people on the street if they're there. it just doesn't seem like he's got his game on, even though it's an opportunity to do something. >> i think the net, net, net, when you watch what's going on with him, with his trial is a yuck. the whole thing is yuck. just gross. the whole thing is sleazy, tawdry. the story we did before this is about abortion and women's health rights and then you see this circus act, the sleaze act, the greasy, slimy story, and i think it's tired. this feels like a moment in time. you look at it and obviously there's abortion and democracy issues and two wars going on and there's a crisis at the border, and i just think the average american looks at this and says i've had enough. i've had enough. you know, this has been a show. whether you like it or hate it,

we've leaned in since he came down the elevator in 2015. it feels like a time people are leaning out. they've just this enough. >> the exhaustion factor. >> stop it. i can't look. the lack of crowds, speak to that, there are no crowds outside, eight people, ten people, twelve people, somebody with their iphone holding it up. >> and they're not trump supporters, there's a few. but a lot of them are qanon and conspiracy people. >> it just feels like it's over. this was the trial that was not going to matter. this is not the election stealing trial, the insurrection trial. this was not the documents trial. this was a trial that it wouldn't matter as it shows that he just doesn't seem to matter as much anymore. >> i don't know. it feels like sometimes the emperor has no clothes, and it feels like one of those moments. we're hearing about his private

life. nobody wants to know about it. nobody wants to imagine that. nobody wants that mental image, and on top of it, you've got this guy named pecker. pecker, pecker, if you wrote this in a script and tried to sell it, they would be like, please, the over the top is too much for me. i take donnie's point, he looks small and it's diminishing. he was the 45th president of the united states of america. the presidency is the pinnacle of everything and not just here in america, i mean, across the world and sitting in a courtroom, standing outside of that courtroom with the bad fluorescent lighting. he looks small. this does not look like a world leader. i think the pictures and these images are making this across, you know, they are making this into as i like to say, the

nonpolitical group chats. i think the details here, though, which is why the reporting and people like suzanne, people who have been in and out of the courtroom throughout the trial, and catherine, who can break down what all of these things mean, the detriment to the american people is they cannot see it for themselves. and i think the best thing that happened for the american people while donald trump was president was the covid briefings. they could see the crazy for themselves. and they are not able to see the crazy for themselves. they have to read about it and live vicariously through mika and i's reenactment of the pecker on the stand. i don't think it doesn't matter, it's just not front and center in a way that is completely accessible to them. so some of the details are missed, which is why what we do here is so important. >> yeah. investigative reporter for the "new york times," suzanne craig, i truly apologize, and nbc news

legal analyst, catherine christian, thank you both very much for being on this morning. it's just a lot. coming up on "morning joe," profits plunge at tesla. down 55% as analysts say it is a make-or-break moment for the electric car manufacturer. will the company's new offerings such as fully autonomous cyber cab help turn things around? nearly one in five american workers are bound by competes, but now a sweeping new action will do away with such agreements for nearly all jobs across the country. we'll break down all of this when cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us next. we'll be right back. we'll be right back.

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a live picture of the beautiful library in philadelphia at 9:26 in the morning. president biden and donald trump both won easily their primaries in battle ground pennsylvania last night. biden won about 88% of democratic primary voters while 83% of gop primary voters went for trump. it is worth noting more than 155,000 republican voters cast a ballot for nikki haley who of course dropped out of the race back in march. in 2020, biden won the state by about 80,000 votes. and when it comes to the senate, democratic incumbent bob casey will face republican challenger david mccormick. a high stakes contest, expected to cost hundreds of millions of dollars and could help decide control of the senate last year. mccormick lost in the primary last go around to dr. oz after president trump endorsed dr. oz instead of mccormick. katty kay, back to the nikki

haley number, there's a pattern here. we're seeing it in arizona. we saw it in wisconsin. i mean, 155,000 votes in the state of pennsylvania obviously could be decisive in the general election if those voters decide to either sit out or to vote for president biden. these are not marginal numbers anymore. she won 16% of the vote in a race she dropped out of almost two months ago. >> it's not nothing, is. it and it gives you an indication that there are people in the republican party that consider themselves republicans. chris christie telling us, don't want to vote for joe biden and switch over to the democratic side, but clearly not happy with donald trump. what are those people going to do, those 155,000 people, what are they going to do in november. they're motivated voters. the fact that you vote in a primary suggests you're a high educated, high interest type of voter. they're probably going to want to do something in november, but they have made it clear in this vote that they don't want to vote for donald trump.

these are states that are going to be won on margins. joe biden won arizona by 10,000 votes, georgia, famously by 11,000 votes. tiny numbers which makes 155,000 a sizable number of people, who could potentially swing pennsylvania one way or the other. it's a big vote and a big anti-trump vote within the gop. >> and there's a good reason the biden campaign, the democratic party nationally is courting actively and aggressively the nikki haley voters. as we saw again last night, there's a lot of them who may be up for grabs in the fall. let's turn to the situation at columbia university. the school says it's in talks now, the student organizers on a deal to clear out the protest encampment on campus, amid demonstrations surrounding the war in gaza that have upended the final weeks of the spring semester there. nbc news correspondent, erin mclaughlin has the latest.

>> reporter: nationwide unrest at college campuses across the country reporting progress in negotiations with pro-palestinian protesters who have been encamped on campus since last week. a columbia spokesperson telling nbc news this morning students have committed to dismantling and removing a significant number of tents and have agreed to prohibit discriminatory and harassing language, with the growing pressure on the president. amid allegations the university is not doing enough to adequately protect the safety of jewish students. >> at the end of the day, we can't be enabling hate or incitement of violence or disruption to students. >> reporter: columbia's encampment inspiring protesters at at least 15 other students including at cal poly, where dozens occupied a campus building and at the university of minnesota, nine were detained for trespassing. students at nyu walking out of class on tuesday. >> i'm absolutely appalled,

horrified and terrified by what happened last night. >> reporter: expressing their outrage over the 120 people detained on campus during heated confrontations with police during a pro-palestinian protest monday night. a jewish faculty member was among those arrested. >> there was a call for prayer began and they sent in the riot squad. >> reporter: when you saw the riot police, what went through your mind? >> i grabbed my daughter, handed her to my wife and told her to get out of there as quickly as possible. >> reporter: university officials say disorderly, disruptive, and antagonizing behavior was happening, before police moved in where riot gear and zip ties. universities struggling with the unrest as some fear for their safety. >> it's hard to see that we have reached such a point where we can't talk to each other. >> nbc's erin mclaughlin reporting for us there. we will note that officials at columbia university have said the conversations with those student protesters will continue

for another 48 hours. meanwhile, house speaker mike johnson announced he will visit columbia this afternoon travel to go new york to meet with jewish students. speaker johnson is set to discuss the troubling rise of anti-semitism on america's college campuses. donny deutsch, conversation, columbia says there's progress here. the fact of the matter is the damage is done. they can agree to not using inflammatory, discriminatory language but they have been using it for a week. there's a distinction between the kids on the campus and the outside agitators who have been locked outside where some of the worst of the language is going on, and things we have heard and the harassment of people just walking down the street, frankly, as i know from a lot of people living up there. is it too little too late for columbia here, donny? >> i'm kind of moved by the word negotiating, if they're negotiating with students, with protesters, ones who are

pro-hamas, ones who are burn down israel, ones who are anti-semitic, hatred towards jews, there has to be a negotiation to get them to stop. if you didn't see it, joe and scott galloway were on talking wonderfully about that if this was any other group there would not be a negotiation. if somebody came on and said let's bring violence against mexicans or asians or any other group, there would not be a negotiation. they would be carried off the campus, but still, with jews, with israel, it's a double standard, and the other wing i want to say, and i wish people would interview the protesters and ask them not only how they feel about israel, but how do you feel about the united states, and i would love to hear what comes out of their mouth about what's wrong with this country and what's wrong with the united states, and so i think underneath this, there's not only a hatred for israel, there's a hatred for the things

we stand for in this country. i would love people to talk about these people. how do you feel about living here, how do you feel about capitalism. be interesting to hear the answers. you know what answer would be. >> we'll be following this. also yesterday the federal trade commission voted to approve a nationwide ban on noncompete agreements, preventing people from taking jobs at their employer's competitors. usually for a specified amount of time. it is estimated that 30 million american workers are currently bound by such measures. yes, i was in one of those. let's bring in andrew ross sorkin, coanchor of "squawkbox." how much do noncompetes play a role in their lives? >> they play a huge role, and an almost unspoken role in our

economy. you know, i think people often times associate noncompete agreements with very high-end work, people getting paid hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars. people even in the tv business that can't go from one network to another because of the way the contracts are constructed. the truth is there are noncompetes throughout our economy, and oftentimes in places where they really shouldn't be, and that's where this ftc decision really strikes at. you know, if you're a hairdresser in this country, oftentimes when you take a job at a hair salon, part of the agreement is you cannot go work at another hair salon within a 30 mile radius. so this new decision effectively would prevent that and prevent it across the board. there are waiters and waitresses in america that are working at a restaurant today that can't go work at a competitor, and therefore, by the way, can't negotiate for a higher salary, and that's the most important

component of this decision. now, we should also note business is pushing back. big business is pushing back, the chamber of commerce filing a lawsuit against this. suggesting not only is this unconstitutionally, the ftc itself is unconstitutional. i should say there's a threshold so that employees who are paid more than $151,000 and have a role in some kind of policy of the way the company is developing, meaning higher up people and management alike can have noncompetes, so that still is going to be a feature of these things, but for a lot of americans, it could be a boon. could raise wages, by the way, the ftc saying by $524 per person. we talked just recently, and i want to make one very important point about how there's a lack of mobility in america today in terms of physical mobility. if people own homes, they have low mortgages, they can't move

anywhere right now because the mortgages are too high. well, that's actually a big problem, and this noncompete thing makes it even harder for them to go find jobs locally. getting rid of the noncompete agreements could be a real help. >> interesting. let's talk about tesla. what is going on. stocks are falling, but evs could be the savior? >> we'll see. tesla shares have been down 40%. revenue is down 9%, and a lot of focus on a conference call that elon musk gave to investors about the future of the company. he is now indicating that tesla is going to make a cheaper vehicle, something on the order of 25,000, $30,000 vehicle. a lot of investors were looking and hoping that might be the case. the stock of tesla is still at a premium to almost every other auto maker in the world, and you almost have to believe if you are investing in tesla today, it's not just a car company but may become a robotaxi company, maybe a technology company and

the like. he is still planning or says he's planning to develop automated vehicles, and the question of course is when. we're all going to be waiting for that. a lot of folks have been waiting for that for a very long time. >> we'll be watching. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you very much. >> thank you. and coming up, we have reaction from capitol hill on the foreign aid bills, including mitch mcconnell's comments on who's to blame for the delay in critical funding. "morning joe" is coming right back. ding "morning joe" is coming right back my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis held me back... now with skyrizi, i'm all in with clearer skin. ♪ things are getting clearer...♪ ( ♪♪ )

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i left a message for president zelenskyy tonight. he had called me the other day and said, okay, we got it done. now go win the fight. >> how long do you think this package will last? >> it's a very full package.

>> senate majority leader chuck schumer speaking with reporters after the senate passed the house's foreign aid package. in total, about $95 billion will go toward assisting ukraine and israel's war efforts as well as aid to gaza and money to counter china's impression in the indo-pacific. the legislation also gives tiktok's china based parent company nine months to sell the platform or be banned in the united states. president biden confirmed he will sign the bill later today, so the weapons and equipment can get to ukraine within the week. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell meanwhile among those praising the foreign aid bill last night, and blaming former fox news host tucker carlson and former president donald trump for the amount of time it took to get through congress. >> demonization of ukraine began by tucker carlson. who in my opinion, ended up where he should have been all along, which is interviewing vladimir putin. and so he had an enormous

audience, which convincd a lot of rank and file republicans that maybe this was a mistake. and then our nominee for president didn't seem to want us to do anything at all. that took months to work our way through it. >> meanwhile, mcconnell's colleague, republican senator lindsey graham who voted against the foreign aid package in february because it did not include tougher immigration policies at the border, switched in favor yesterday. senator graham, initially a major proponent of the bipartisan border bill but flipped on that after donald trump encouraged republicans to kill the legislation. here's what graham had to say on the senate floor last night. >> everybody who comes on this floor and says our border is broken we should do something about it, you're absolutely right. and unfortunately we didn't get there. president trump opposed a senate bill, we couldn't find a better

way forward that would get 60 votes. i hate that. but now we have to deal with what's left for us to take care of in the world. >> so senator graham there saying out loud what we know to be true which was there was a bipartisan package, unlike anything conservatives have seen in generations, actually. it was on the table. they walked away from it because as senator graham said there donald trump opposed it. i'm curious for your analysis of what we have seen here over the last week. on the one hand, you had speaker johnson finally finding his courage and talking about the reagan republican he says he is in our defense of ukraine and how important that is, and effectively telling marjorie taylor greene and those extremists in the maga coalition. come at me. if you want to have a motion to get rid of the speaker, do t but i'm going to lead the passage of the bill and some of the senators going after openly on this anyway, donald trump and tucker carlson and other people

they bowed to in the past. what's going on? >> well, i think a couple of things, willie. first and foremost, everyone should look at the actions of everyone from senator lindsey graham to even donald trump, marjorie taylor greene, mitch mcconnell and speaker johnson and ask yourself is this a moment or is this a movement. and i think as it relates to lindsey graham, i don't know why senator graham does what he does sometimes because for a very long time, he espoused the belief that senator mcconnell had, that getting security and aid to ukraine is important to america's security. it's what the secretary of nato told us this weekend on "the weekend." he said this is important for the world. speaker johnson, we need to see if this is a moment or real movement. i think there are two things, his son being enrolled in the naval academy this fall and the real reality setting in for him after seeing the intelligence and reading for himself, being

briefed at the highest levels of what this means for not just ukraine but europe and the entire western world, i think that weighed heavily on him, and he kind of snapped out of whatever trance he has been in and said, okay, look, this may be my only chance to do something, and this is within my power to control. what i can do is ensure this gets on the floor. is this real movement? does this mean that speaker johnson is not going to continue to align himself with donald trump, an unelected individual who's currently pulling the reins of the united states house of representatives. we have to wait and see. he should be commended for what has happened here. this fight is not over. is this the only aid bill that ukraine and our allies are going to see between now and the end of the year? is this going to be enough? ukraine still hasn't gotten some of what has been allocated from the last bill that was passed, and so people had to pay attention here, and this is not just a foreign policy issue, this is, in fact, a domestic

policy situation. >> symone sanders townsend, thank you so much for coming on this morning. of course we'll be watching "the weekend" saturday and sunday mornings beginning at 8:00 a.m. right here on msnbc. thanks. and donny deutsch, thank you as well. good to have you all this morning. and coming up on "morning joe,". >> war is coming. >> life and death are the same. both can have value and purpose. >> that was part of the trailer for "shogun", the hit fx show that has been called the most epic series since "game of thrones," and one of the stars joins us live in studio on the heels of the thrilling finale. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. atching "mo" we'll be right back.

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politeness, our rituals. death is in our air and sea and earth, just remember we live and we die. i control nothing beyond that. >> there's a saying out here, every man has three hearts. one in his mouth for the world to know, another in his chest, that's for his friends, and the secret heart buried deep where no one can find it. >> that is a look at the critically acclaimed limited serious shogun on fx. it's based on the 1985

historical fiction novel of the same name. it tells the story of feudal japan and a nation embroiled in politics with religion and foreign interests also playing a critical role. forbes has called shogun the best show on tv right now. and times says it isn't a will remake, it's a revelation. shogun is the genuine tv epic you've been waiting for. the full series is available now on hulu, and the star of the series is the award winning ak tror, hiruhiruyuki so na toe, bt train, john wick, avengers, you've been in a ton of movies. everybody is talking about this series. for people who haven't seen it yet, set the table a little bit. where do we find ourselves as the series begins with your character? >> yeah, it was a great

experience, you know. this is my favorite character because he's a hero in japan, and i spent a great time in vancouver as a producer and as an actor as well. we had a great cooperation between western team and japanese team all working together, you know, so it was an east meets west dream team we had on set. so i spent a great time with them. >> i almost wanted to call you lord torinaga. you're here physically right in front of me and the conclusion of the series is a dream of a dream. that's the caption, the title of the series. was making this series win of your dreams as an actor, as a japanese man? was it? >> kind of, yes.

introduce our history, culture to the world. it's very important. that's why we try to make authentic as much as possible, and, yeah, it was a meaningful shooting and then showing to the world. i'm so happy to have had a finale yesterday. i'm proud of my crew and cast. >> it's a pleasure to see you here, and you also not only having done this, you're also the only japanese actor ever to have acted with the royal shakespeare company when you played the fool in king lear. it's not easy for japanese actors to breakthrough in the united states or in the united kingdom. i was just wondering how you think you've managed to do it? >> yeah, playing shakespeare was my biggest challenge in my life.

first shakespeare english in front of the live audiences, yeah, but it was a great experience mixing culture creates something new, no one ever see, you know. i felt this kind of international project going to be my next mission in my life i thought. then i took the audition for the last samurai, and then jumped into hollywood, so that experience changed my life, and yeah, i wanted to keep continue film making in hollywood or anywhere in the world. i cannot change something just one movie or tv show. i wanted to continue, just keep continue and get to somewhere next step, so this 20 years i

had a great experience during the shooting show or movies, then i put all my experience into shogun. so i think all the experience worked and brought me here now. >> well, it's all paying off. you heard all the praise, the critical praise i read, people comparing it favorably to "game of thrones" in its scope. it is truly an epic and the finale and the entire series is available on hulu. congratulations and thank you so much for being here today. >> thank you for having me. thank you. >> and that does it for us this morning. we'll be right back here tomorrow morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage in just two minutes. s e coverage in just two minutes he s of treating? or push through the pain and symptoms? with ubrelvy, there's another option. one dose works fast to eliminate migraine pain

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