institution. you bring up bills because you have your entire party with you. everybody is a free agent and working against each other, and it can't work this way. if democrats and johnson are not on the same page, we could have real, big problems. >> yeah, just the fact the speaker was on tv saying, we only control one chamber, and i barely control that, i thought that was striking. brendan buck, msnbc political analyst, thank you for joining us. thank you for getting up "way too early" with us on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. this trial the wearing on donald trump. i've been watching him. you know, people get to talk about him, and he has to sit there for hours without saying anything. kind of like he did on january 6th. we'll get you caught up on donald trump's hush money trial with expert legal analysis ahead of opening statements, which are set for later this morning.

who will reportedly be the first witness called by the prosecution? >> let's talk about the trial this weekend. >> all weekend long. twitter was going wild. also ahead, it appears ukraine will finally get the critical funding it needs after the house passed a package of foreign aid bills which includes more military support for israel, as well. the bill now heads to the senate despite efforts by marjorie taylor greene, who got called out, yes, by the new york post. kind of sums it up. >> it does. good morning. it is monday, april 22nd. welcome back the "morning joe." former aide to the bush state department and white house, elise jordan. from the american presidency at vanderbilt university, historian jon meacham. and financial editor at "the financial times," ed luce is with us. >> we'll get to the lead story in one moment, which are opening statements in donald trump's

hush money trial. first, jon meacham, i don't want to ever be melodramatic on things like this, but that saturday vote was one that will be remembered for quite some time. it certainly will be remembered by our european allies who were beginning to question whether america was still in the fight for freedom. >> i think it was remarkable. i think that i know it may not be popular in a polarized time to say so, but i think the speaker of the house did exactly the right thing. there was a good "new york times" piece about how he got there. if you read that piece, you see it was a case where he educated himself. he listened to people who knew more than he did. did not prejudge it in the end. it's a reminder that, you know, so much of the time, if you

actually take the effort to understand the complexities of something that seems simple, you get to a different place. that's what we want in leadership and in citizenship. >> yeah, we will -- ed luce, as we say here all time, meacham and i, of course, being from the south, protestants from the south, we take conversions anytime, anyplace, anywhere. if you want to go down to the river and pray, you do it, sir. looks like mike johnson, at least on this one issue, stopped sounding like donald trump and started sounding like ronald reagan and dr. brzezinski and others who have understood the danger of an aggressive russia. >> yeah. i think it was not so much a come to jesus moment as a come to bill burns, the director of cia, moment. clearly, the briefings speaker

johnson got were strong and shocking enough for him to realize that he would be on the wrong side of history if he didn't do the right thing. he did do -- as jon said, he did do the right thing, and he really deserves applause for that, even though it was several months too late. but the price he's going to pay for this is yet to be seen. you know, i do expect there will be some kind of motion to vacate soon. >> well, the democrats most likely will support him in that. we'll see what happens here. elise, though, you know, it's so fascinaing about these briefings that the speaker received. made him understand that he really didn't have much of a choice if he wanted to do what was best for america, the best for western europe, the best for the west, the best for freedom. but we hear this from time to time from presidents. whether it was from when bill

clinton was going into office, he got the briefing when barack obama was going into office, he was saying a few things on the campaign trail that he stopped saying after he had gotten -- forgive my language here -- but in the intel community, they call it the oh, shit briefing. that's what he got. you look at the material before you, and you say those words and understand just how dangerous the world is out there and just what is required by american leaders to keep it safe. >> bill burns is a legendary diplomat, and i would have loved to have been in that room for the meeting, as i'm sure we all would have, to learn and hear what really was his take on the stakes here. i do hope that the biden administration is doing whatever they can to push the ukrainians to -- not only to success, but to start seriously thinking about negotiations and what are going to have to be the concessions they want from

putin. what are going to be the concessions they're willing to make? if, at the end of the day, we're funneling billions and billions without any end state in mind or strategy to lead to the end state, that does feed into what to her side's argument was, that there has to be some kind of strategy and some kind of end in sight, instead of just spending money on endless war. >> well, i will say, inside the white house, the belief has been we need this money so we can move both sides toward a settlement. without this money, putin goes wherever he wants to go. with this support, with the united states and europe behind zelenskyy's fight, behind ukraine's fight, that's the best hope of ending this war. i certainly agree with that assessment. it makes a lot of sense. i do want to say, yes, it was the cia director's briefing and other briefings that mike johnson got that, as we learned during donald trump's

administration, being told the right thing to do, the responsibility thing to do, doesn't always lead leaders in this page of trump to doing it. again, very grateful that mike johnson listened and came out, did the right thing. >> made his own decision. >> made his own decision, put his job on the line. >> what do we call that? >> that's courage. >> profile in courage. >> in this case, that's courage. applause going up along the ukrainian line. >> oh, my god. >> the russian invaders enraged that america was still there to fight. you know, i will say, the speaker also, i've got to say again, had chairman mccaul behind him, chairman turner, had other republican chairman stressing the importance, not just of pushing back on russia, but pushing back on xi and pushing back on kim jong-un and pushing back on iran, and

showing that america will be there. message sent across the world on saturday. can't overstate it. >> we'll have much more with david ignatius on this in a moment. our other huge story this morning starts today. opening statements set to begin this morning in former president donald trump's criminal hush money trial. after jury selection wrapped up on friday, the 12-person jury is made up of seven men and five women, along with six alternates. later this morning, both the prosecution and the defense are expected to lay out their cases during opening statements. according to "the new york times," the prosecution plans to frame trump's actions of payments to keep adult film actress stormy daniels quiet about an alleged affair as election interference. the defense, meanwhile, will seize on three apparent weak points. witness credibility, the

president's culpability, and the case's legal complexity. one of the potential first witnesses expected to testify is david pecker, the former ceo of america media incorporated, who bought and buried damaging stories about trump. it's called catch and kill. he is alleged to have worked with trump and his former attorney, michael cohen, to bury the stormy daniels story. other witnesses expected to testify include michael cohen, stormy daniels, former trump aide hope hicks, and former playboy model karen mcdougal, who also alleged a sexual relationship with trump. and as former president trump left court on friday, he continued to insist that he plans to testify in his own defense. oh, joining us now, former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin.

also, msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos. sorry about that, we thought we'd hear trump. obviously, we've heard what he has to say a thousand times. lisa, what do we expect today? one of the first witnesses is david pecker, but do you expect that opening statements get finished today or just, technically, what are we looking for in terms of getting accomplished today in court? >> mika, a lot of the judicial housekeeping you'd expect to be taken care of before the trial really starts has all been brushed off judge merchan's plate. he's decided all the pretrial motions. we have a jury that has been sat. i expect that very soon after 9:30 this morning, we will get to opening statements. while neither of the parties has outlined exactly how long they will take, as danny knows better than anyone, an opening statement is your opportunity to preview your case for the jury. and while you want to do that in a way that gives them an overview, you also don't want to exhaust them.

i expect that neither side will take more than roughly 60 to 70 minutes. that means that we will have time to get to the first witness who, as you noted, is expected to be former chairman of american media and the national enquirer's david pecker. >> where are we on jurors these days? two had to leave. there were only six spae spares begin with. do we have only four spares? how many do we have left, and are they sequestered? can you talk a little bit about how they are being managed, so to speak, during this process, as all this intense scrutiny, and there's so much press surrounding it. >> right. the two jurors that we lost were replaced that same day leading to a total of 12 jurors who have been seated. in addition to that, we have six alternates. the jurors, however, are not sequestered, elise. there have been accommodations made to assure their anonymity.

however, we don't know, for example, what provisions are being taken to get them to the courthouse for their departure from the courthouse, what the lunch provisions are. in federal court in the e. jean carroll trials, both those juries were not only anonymous, but steps were taken to ensure that, for example, they didn't come directly from their home to the courthouse. they met the u.s. marshals at an offsite location and then were brought to the courthouse underground so nobody would see their comings and goings. i'm hopeful that judge merchan is able to make some similar provisions for the jurors in this case so that they can remain protected throughout the duration of the trial. >> here's the thing, i think it could be a problem. last week, we lost projur two j before the trial began. you lose jurors during a trial. i lost them. they fell asleep. they don't follow the judge's orders. but you don't normally lose a juror after the moment they're

selected and between that and the time that the trial actually begins because, ordinarily, nothing happens during that time. but in this case, you have an example where a juror goes home, they start really thinking about their duty and what this is going to entail, they come back and say, you know what, i don't want to do this anymore. by the way, that's also something that happens from time to time. i've had it in organized crime cases. you have jurors who come up to the judge and say, i'll do anything. please, i do not want to be on this jury. i'm afraid. that's not obviously the same situation here, but you do have jurors who are going to have second thoughts. the question becomes, will six alternates will enough to cover this trial? i hope so. but if what we've seen so far, if that's the rate of loss of jurors, two before we even start the trial, that could be a real problem. that could lead to a mistrial, which in, i think, the defense's view, is a win. even though it doesn't mean you start the trial again in a year or something like that.

normally, the court schedules the retrial as soon as they possibly can, but, yeah, juror attrition is going to be a real issue in this case. again, i couldn't agree more with lisa. opening statements are not going to be all day. look for an hour from the prosecution and probably less from the defense. because all they're doing today is offering a preview. you'll hear this probably many times. the evidence will show that dot, dot, dot. the evidence will show that dot, dot, dot. it's really just a promise to the jurors of what the facts will show. if you're the defense, you do not want to be making a lot of promises. for example, you will not hear the words, "you're going to hear from the defendant himself." because if you make that promise, nobody is going to forget it. so they will say, i expect, the prosecution will try to focus on what they've already seated the jury on, which is, you'll hear from some people that are not that credible. but they're not credible because

they're donald trump's friends. on the defense side, you'll probably hear a version of, try to keep an open mind. the evidence is not all in. we don't have the burden. just sort of the standard fair, but you're not going to see anything as flashy, anything as dramatic, as exciting as we're going to see during closing arguments. this is only going to be a preview, and it will not take the entire day at all. >> interesting. >> you know, as danny said, in mob cases, there are jurors that will tell the judge they're afraid for their safety and want to get off. he said this isn't exactly like that, but, really, it is in many cases, in that a lot of the jurors are fearful of repercussions if they're in on a jury that's impaneled that rules against donald trump. i mean, because they want their names -- the judge trying to keep the names from getting out there, but, over time, this is

very dangerous and tough. >> in this trial, everybody is under duress. donald trump's past statements, even with the gag order, about the judge, the judge's daughter, with the jury, everybody is under a great deal of stress and concerned about their safety. i would add that it is donald trump, no matter which way this goes, that you have to keep your eye on. donald trump right now is enduring something that he's never had to endure in his entire life. he has to be somewhere every day and do what he is told. when he is told to sit down by the judge, he has to sit down. that happened on friday at least once. when he tries to get on his phone, he is told to get off of his phone. he has to be there watching his former friends, david pecker, hope hicks, and two alleged former lovers testifying for or against him. this is not what he's used to. >> this is a guy, as we look at pictures of donald trump here,

this is a guy, jon meacham, that has spent his entire life creating this warped reality. that goes wherever his mind wants it to go. keeping people around him that allows him to avoid reality. keeping people around him that does exactly what he wants to do. he was so proud of having a button on his white house desk. he goes, "press the button," and somebody brings in diet coke. he loves the complete control and command, and he has his entire life. now, he's sitting down six, seven, eight hours a day, and -- >> at 78 years old. >> -- 78 years old, judge telling him what to do, being mocked, getting angry about that. yeah, this is quite -- >> new territory. >> -- new territory for donald

trump. >> and, arguably, no american in history has so warped everyone else's reality, as well, right? i mean, it's not simply his imaginative universe. he has imposed his imaginative universe, his grievances, his vision of enemies versus himself on everyone. we're living in this warped reality. one thing about the last couple of weeks and about these images that i think -- maybe this isn't a particularly popular thing to say, but this is actually a somewhat reassuring set of images. it suggests that there is something more important than one single man and the will of one single man. that is the rule of law. he is submitting himself to the legal processes of the country,

and it should remind people, not of his victimhood, but the thomas paine incite, that we don't have a king. in america, the law is king. what we're seeing in the new york courthouse, however tawdry the narrative around it is, the facts of the case, that doesn't matter. what matters the law itself is supreme. it's not just about the appetites and ambitions of one person. >> lisa, there's more coming in other courtrooms pertaining to donald trump. also today, a hearing in former president trump's civil fraud case. remember that? on friday, new york attorney general letitia james asked a judge to void the bond trump secured so he can appeal the decision. james is questioning whether the company that issued the $175

million bond has the funds to back it up. lisa, what's the mash she's doing here, and is it possible the bond could be voided? if it is voided, what happens? >> let's start with if it is voided, what happens? the current bond would stay in place until donald trump posts new security, either by posting $175 million and putting it in escrow with the court himself or finding another bond company. one of the things that tish james has said here is that donald trump's folks have hid the ball, that they did have an offer from don hinkie, who is the insurer here, to cover all of the bond had it remained at $454 million plus, but they never told the court that. instead, what they told the court was, we have 30 different bond companies we went out to, and none of them would cover the entirety of it. so let's start with today, what judge engoron has to decide, is whether this existing $175 million bond is sufficient.

the ag's office is saying, no, it's not, for a few reasons. one, this isn't a company that's licensed to do business in the state of new york. two, they've never issued a surety bond in new york. they haven't even issued a surety bond anywhere for the last two years. three, and perhaps most importantly, when you look at the financials of this company, the difference between their assets and their liabilities is not enough to cover the bond. that coupled with the fact that they don't have control right now of the $175 million but, rather, would have to let charles schwab, which holds the account that's collateral, know they want to exert control, then it'd take at least two plus days to do that, that has the attorney general concerned that, essentially, trump could run rough with this money and nobody who has enough to cover the bond would be left holding the bag. mika, i am very much interested in what happens at that hearing today, even as i'll be in the courthouse watching opening

statements. >> wow. msnbc's legal correspondent lisa rubin, we'll be following your coverage. msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos. thank you, both, for joining us today. we'll be joined by david ignatius and ali vitali about what happened on capitol hill, culminating in a lifeline for ukraine. we'll have all the details in one minute. one minute

well, president zelenskyy, it is an historic morning. i want to get your reaction to this major news, the house approving $61 billion in aid to ukraine. will you get this aid in time to make a difference? >> translator: yeah, it's been, of course, so important. first of all, let's just say thanks to the congress for their bipartisan support. i'd like to say thanks to speaker johnson and president

biden. >> can ukraine now win this war, or is the united states merely giving you enough aid to prolong this war? >> translator: thank you. i think this support will really strengthen the armed forces of ukraine, and we will have a chance for victory. if ukraine really gets the weapons system, which we need so much. >> ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy on "meet the press" yesterday reacting to the house overwhelmingly voting in favor of new funding for ukraine, as well as israel and taiwan. the senate is expected to pass the legislation as early as tomorrow and send it to the president's desk to sign. really incredible moment. i have to say, wasn't sure mike johnson had it, but he does.

>> certainly does. i mean, mike allen and jim vandehei wrote this this morning in "politico." "he denied the loudest, most threatening gop personalities, dug deep into government intelligence, and shifted his position on the most vital foreign policy legislation in years. why it matters? it is hard to overstate the importance of johnson's road to kyiv political conversion. he not only shifted his own position on funding and arming ukraine but defied a majority of his party to do it." >> wow. >> let's bring in columnist and associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. david, if you will, give us your thoughts on what we saw this weekend. >> joe, i thought it was a tremendously emotional affirmation of the ability of the united states, despite all of our political divisions and difficulties, to get to the

right thing, to have a speaker display considerable personal danger to him and his speakership, decide that he was going to stand for what was best for the country, not for himself. i think back last month to when i was sitting with president zelenskyy in kyiv talking about what he would do if u.s. aid didn't come soon. he took out a piece of paper and kind of drew lines that symbolized the ukrainian front. he said, "without enough ammunition to match the russians, we're going to have to retreat. we'll have to pull back." you could just see in his eyes what it meant, that this brave struggle was beginning to collapse at the front. so to get that aid finally, to have people stand up and be counted, starting with mike johnson really meant something. i'll mention one other thing. i was at a social event yesterday with the ukrainian ambassador, with a lot of the generals in the u.s. military

who are most responsible for this war. certain point, a performer who was performing for the group sang "amazing grace" beautifully, stretching out every word. i don't think there was a dry eye in that room listening to this amazing grace that the american political system had discovered to pass this aid. it's a big deal. the key question is, obviously, how soon can the aid get to the ukrainian forces? they're getting pounded right now by the russians. the russians are on the advance. they need this aid as soon as they can get it. >> yeah. ali, i don't know if they're singing "amazing grace" in the republican cloak room or not. >> hardly. >> but mike johnson stepped out, he had a lot of powerful allies in the house gop caucus that stood beside him, and it seems that republicans really don't

have the stomach for another challenge to the speakership. all that being said, as republicans go back to work this monday, what's the atmosphere there, and what's the future of speaker johnson? >> look, i think they might not have the stomach for it, but they might get it nonetheless. we, thankfully if you're mike johnson, have a week of a cooling off period right now. although they were in on saturday, they've now got a week of recess. the fact that congresswoman marjorie taylor greene did not privilege her motion, effectively make this a more urgent crisis upon their return in a week, that's probably good news for the speaker's office. but there is a reality here where, in my conversations with republican members, they are very frustrated at the fact that this is once again a looming threat to their majority. they don't know who could possibly take the position of this speaker. i candidly don't know why anyone would want the job, especially not at this point. the reality for mike johnson, i

think, is even if he keeps the job, it's a question of the power of the position. there are open questions about whether or not a sort of coalition governance can work in the house. it is a very majority-focused body, as you guys all know, but for mike johnson, there are the votes right now. three republicans say that they want him to no longer be the speaker of the house. there seems to be a difference of opinion on how they get out of the job, a motion to vacate or pressuring him to resign. there's also enough democrats right now that would save his job. that's where we come back to the idea of the power of his position. i think that's the explanation for why i have heard from republican members of congress who support the speaker, who also say he's basically done in his role. now, whether or not they mean he is done tomorrow or whether or not they mean he is done in november when they start thinking about what the next congress looks like, that's, i think, the question we're waiting to see the answer to.

certainly, this is a vote that they took over the weekend that you guys have been right to point out is a marked change in johnson's personal opinion from when he was just a member to now being a speaker. it's also a moment where we heard him, time and again, say that he was willing to put the selfish reasons and his job on the backburner to do the right thing, in his words. >> ed, elise here. if this $61 billion in funding for ukraine had been held up even longer, would other european allies have stepped up, or would it have just been the beginning of the end there? >> i think the briefing that speaker johnson got was that this would be the beginning of the end. if american aid hadn't come in 2024, then he couldn't guarantee that ukraine would not have fallen by the end of 2024. look, i mean, europeans have been putting a lot of money in and quite a lot of resources in.

a lot of artillery, a lot of tanks, a lot of air defense systems. it's not like the europeans have been doing nothing. i think something like 60% so far of the funding for ukraine has come from europe. it should be more. the europeans lack specific systems only the americans can provide. the atacms and systems like that. the f-16s and stuff like that, there is no european equivalent. this is an enormous relief for europe, as well, which is, i think, doing its best to try and catch up. there are a lot of countries in europe, and they don't integrate their military. they don't integrate their defense production. they are going to take a while to do that. it's happening, but it is happening slowly. >> david, can you talk through

the next, say, six months in terms of the aid getting there, what this looks like on the groundin, as putin himself confronts what zelenskyy is able to throw against him? >> jon, zelenskyy and the chief of the ukrainian military intelligence both said to me that they expect significant russian offensives this summer, starting maybe in june, perhaps earlier, to try to consolidate their control in the areas in the east, in particular, donetsk and luhansk, provinces that the russians have claimed are part of russia but they don't fully control. the strategy being to try to have complete control by the time u.s. elections roll around, maybe donald trump is president so that they can then bargain to take those permanently. that's the way the ukrainians

see it. their strategy is to get powerful, new u.s. weapons, including the atacms, long-range missiles, that can put crimea, russian-occupied crimea at risk, that can shoot from positions in ukraine and, pow, take out russian airfields, supply bases, key areas in crimea, so that the russians begin, finally, to have an incentive to negotiate. crimea is probably what's most important for them. their key naval base in the black sea, they don't want to lose it. if the ukraiians using these weapons through the remainder of the year can put crimea at risk, you might have a situation where going into next year, the russians say, it is time to negotiate some satisfactory end to this war to get what we want. i don't hear anybody saying that negotiation is likely this year. but the thing about this aid package, the miraculous thing

speaker johnson and the congress have done is give ukraine another year in this fight, maybe to get to the point where they can bargain from strength next year. >> david ignatius and ed luce, thank you, both, very much for coming in this morning. and nbc's ali vitali, thank you, as well. coming up on "morning joe," we're going to read from liz cheney's new op-ed in "the new york times" calling on the supreme court to rule swiftly on donald trump's immunity claim. that's happening this week, as well. also ahead, new polling shows robert f. kennedy's third-party presidential bid cuts deeper into trump's support than president biden's. we'll dig into the new numbers. >> helps biden lead by a couple months. >> "morning joe" is coming right back. so this is pickleball? it's basically tennis for babies, but for adults. it should be called wiffle tennis. pickle! yeah, aw! whoo! ♪♪ these guys are intense.

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38 past the hour. new nbc polling shows robert f. kennedy jr. taking more votes from donald trump than joe biden in this year's election. in a one-on-one matchup, the poll shows trump ahead of biden by two points, 46% to 44% among registered voters. that's within the poll's margin of error. but when the field expands to include third-party candidates, biden takes the lead over trump, 39% to 37%. that's because 15% of voters who

previously said they would support trump now say they would back rfk jr., compared to just 7% of former biden voters who say the same. >> you never know how this is going to break. in 1980, john anderson ran. >> you kind of get the thinking. >> they're conspiracy theorists. >> exactly. >> john anderson ran as a republican against ronald reagan. >> yeah. >> jimmy carter, he ended up taking votes away from jimmy carter. >> right. >> when his intent was to take votes away from ronald reagan. again, in this case -- >> so interesting. >> -- we're seeing the same thing happen. >> president joe biden's odds of winning re-election are the highest as they have been in at least three months. on the website predictit, it costs 54 cents to bet on a biden victory and 45 cents to bet on a trump victory. the more likely outcome is the more it costs to bet on. biden's odds have been steadily increasing over the past month after trump's odds reached a

high of 48 cents in early march. we should note, though, that the site's tracker only goes as far back as late january. >> former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner. i saw this yesterday. before we get into all your charts, i know you actually show these, where the betting markets are. sometimes they can be more accurate than even polls. thought about you yesterday because joe biden has made quite a move over the last month or so. >> yeah. i think there's no question by almost any measure that joe biden has had really a good month, since the state of the union. i think that may prove to be a turning point in the race, as you showed i don't your other polls. those of us who believe in markets believe when you put real money down, even if it is a dollar, you're putting some skin in the game. they have historically been very accurate. they've had their misses. more recently, for various reasons i won't bore you with,

they've been a little less accurate than in the past. nonetheless, this is a pretty significant move for the betting markets. they've been sitting there at roughly 50/50 for these two candidates for a long time. so you are seeing some pretty positive green chutes, we can call them, for president biden, all of these numbers. >> yeah. steve, we'll get to your charts in one moment. i do want to go to jon meacham. jon, you never know how things are going to break. i talked about john anderson in 1980, a republican, fellow republican, who believed he was going to draw from ronald reagan. he ended up getting a lot of liberals and getting a lot of college students voting for him. he got his 5%, but that came from jimmy carter, most of it. of course, speaking of rfk, we go back to 1968, something you and i have talked about a good bit. the kennedy family still trying to figure out how after bobby's tragic assassination, his votes, many of his votes went to george

wallace. still can't sort it through. you never know how this is going to break. at least in this nbc news poll, it certainly looks like one anti-vaxer is going to be, you know -- a conspiracy theorist, i guess i should say, is going to be taking votes from another conspiracy theorist. >> that's certainly where sort of common sense, barstool analysis would lead you, right? if you're thinking about voting for an anti-vax person, i don't think your second choice is going to be the democratic incumbent who believes in science and is a politician who is arguing for a constitutional and rational order. doesn't seem like exactly where you'd go. historically, you're right, wallace in '68, john anderson in

1980. of course, ross perot in 1992, who got 19%. still a huge debate within bush world, both the senior president bush, believed perot cost him the election. when you dive into the data, it gets tricky. but when you have an alternative to the duopoly, you end up in a very chancy place. particularly because, and this is why every single vote counts, particularly when you talk about such small margins. 500 votes here, 500 votes there, and, you know, to paraphrase, suddenly, you're talking about, you know, that adds up to the presidency of the united states. so i think everybody has to have, if i may, a mike johnson

moment, a liz cheney moment. they have to decide this year, where do you want history to judge you? how do you want history to judge you? i think that this is that important. i really do. today marks earth day, the annual event to demonstrate support for environmental protection. steve, you have some charts on some concerning signs for the planet. we'll start with global temperatures. go ahead. >> sure, mika. look, the whole issue of global warming should be very front and center. it is an existential threat that we face as not just a country but as a world. for a long time, as temperatures were rising, a lot of climate deniers said, well, it is cyclical. it goes up. temperature goes up, temperature goes down. boy, i don't think you can make that argument anymore. look what has been happening the last few years. they have just shot up. in 2024 so far, which is only a few months into it, 2.5 degrees

above this very long-term average of water temperature. you can see the jump in just two years. we have not had a year since 1976 in which the average temperature for the year was below the average temperature for the 20th century. it has all been straight up and to the right, which on wall street is a good thing, but in climate temperature, it is a really bad thing. that's had implications for the ocean. let's take a look at the ocean. so these are average surface ocean temperatures. this dotted black line here is the average of all these gray lines of years and years and years of ocean temperatures. this is 2023, a breakout here. 2024 is off to an even tougher start. >> horrifying. >> this has implications. implications for fish, believe it or not. in warmer water, fish don't get enough oxygen and could drown. for coral reefs. rising sea levels, we've lost

arctic ice the size of alaska and more in antarctica, and it threatens coastal communities, maybe even pensacola, hopefully not, someday. this is an existential threat to our marine life and the weather patterns that have come out of that. >> you're also looking at emissions. where do we stand? >> sure. so the problem is, the carbon dioxide we've been pouring into the atmosphere for as long as we've been burning any kind of fuel to make heat for other purposes, now we're suffering the consequences. we've been putting co2 into the air. here's what's happened. total co2 emissions, i did this by region and country. there is good news and less good news. europe's emissions of co2 peaked early, and they have actually done a decent job of getting them down to here. the u.s. peaked over here and have gotten them down a little bit. look at china. look at the rest of asia.

look at india. they are shooting up. their share of emissions has gone from a relatively small part in asia to the majority of emissions in asia. now, there is a reason for it. faster economic growth means more use of energy, means more co2. that's a pretty straight line that is very hard to break. but when you look at the amount of emissions from places like china relative to the growth rate of their economy, you do get a somewhat different picture. all countries have succeeded in becoming more energy efficient. they've succeeded in reducing the amount of energy and emissions per unit of gdp, relative to the growth rate of their economy. this black dotted line is the whole world. down here, interestingly, you see the uk and germany and china tied in terms of what they've accomplished. the developing more, india, japan -- japan is not a developing country, obviously --

but india and many other countries that have kept this line as high as it has. this is part of the whole debate that goes on. emerging countries say, well, you got to pollute for 200 years. we need to be able to pollute for a little while to catch up economically. >> steve rattner, thank you very much for that. let's bring in monica madea, former assistant secretary of state for oceans and international environmental and scientific affairs. also with us, dr. derek menzelleo of the coral reef program. we talked about this global coral bleaching event that the world is enduring, doctor. what is it, and what is the impact on the environment? >> well, since february of 2023, we have seen mass coral bleaching confirmed in at least 54 different countries, the northern and southern

hemisphere, in all ocean bases. coral are animal. they live with algae, who provide 95% of the nutritional elements for the coral animal. this relationship is sensitive to elevated temperatures. if temperatures are elevated by a degree celsius, two to three fahrenheit, and stay there a month or more, corals bleach. when you see a white coral, it is essentially starving to death. now, bleaching isn't a death sentence. corals can recover. even for those corals that do recover, they have lasting physiological impacts. a coral that bleaches and recovers will have slower growth rates for about two to four years. its reproductive output will go to zero for about five years. they become immunocompromised, so they're highly susceptible to disease for one to two years. corals are vitally important pause they're the engineers of the coral reef ecosystem. without corals, you no longer

have a coral reef ecosystem. the reason that's so important is because about 25% of all known marine species associate with coral reefs at some point in their lives. one in four of every living thing in the world's oceans is dependent on healthy coral reefs. >> well, and, monica, you look at the rising temperatures and the warnings that steve rattner just gave us on the charts, heated waters, a lot of fish just, as he said, would die. it keeps getting worse. >> absolutely. joe, thanks so much, joe and mika, for having me on today to talk about this important topic. we couldn't be at a very perilous place when it comes to our oceans because they're meeting up extremely fast. temperatures are off the charts. it impacts fisheries which billions of people depend on for their primary source of protein. in addition, today is earth day. the theme is planet or plastic.

we are seeing an inundation of plastic pollution in the ocean, as well. there are 21,000 pieces of plastic in the ocean for every person on this planet. our oceans are getting walloped, and we're finding plastic in our food web, in us. i really think today, we ought to be thinking about this as people or plastic. >> right. >> plastic is incredibly harmful to humans, and there is a global environmental negotiation going on today, right now, in ottawa, canada, to try to get a handle on this horrible plastic pollution problem that's really damaging both the environment and humans. >> so that's my next question for you, monica. how does this happen? because in reading some of the information that goes along with this, you're right, it's showing up in breastmilk, in human tissue, in the digestive track,

there's connections to cancer. if you look at the american household, every single day, plastic is used. plastic is thrown away. how do we root this out of, i'll start with the united states of america, in terms of our lifestyle? >> well, there are lots of things that individuals can do, but it also takes leadership. so as an individual, you're out there in your kitchen. you probably just threw something plastic in your trash can. think about all the ways that you can cut your own plastic use. reusable water bottles. or go to the grocery store. instead of buying a big jug of deterrent in plastic, look for the little containers of sheets of detergent that you can throw in the washing machine. incredibly easy to use and efficient and effective. there are substitutes. on top of that, we need leadership. at the state, local, and national levels. president biden and vice president harris have been at

the forefront of trying to get our arms around, their arms around this plastic pollution problem. from kuing it out of our drinking water. there are 95% of u.s. drinking water systems have plastic in them. the biden administration just promulgated a rule to take some of the most toxic, forever chemicals, the most toxic of these chemicals out of our water systems. they've also promulgated a rule to take it out of the air. every person, every year, inhales 22 million pieces of plastic, microplastic, a year. getting it out of the air is incredibly important. the biden administration has taken this on. and the trump administration ignored this problem. of course, they cared more about what the chemicals industry and the oil and gas industry cared about rather than what people need and care about. plastic is the lifeline for the oil and gas industry. as we cut back on our use of oil and gas in cars and

transportation, increasingly, we're ramping up our plastic production. every piece of plastic that we have ever made is still in the environment because it never degrades. >> former assistant secretary of state for oceans and international environmental and scientific affairs, monica medina. and coordinator of noaa's coral reef program, thank you for coming on. >> so important on this earth day. ahead, we're continuing to follow donald trump's historic criminal trial as opening statements are set to begin in just a few hours. he will be back in court. plus, a "new york times" investigation finds 23 top chinese swimmers tested positive for a banned substance ahead of the tokyo olympics. but they were still allowed to compete. we'll talk to one of the reporters behind that article. and democratic senator reverend raphael warnock will be our guest as the senate takes up

a foreign aid package passed by the house. "morning joe" will be right back.

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♪♪ it's the top of the hour. what a beautiful day in washington, d.c.

welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, april 22nd. elise jordan and jon meacham are still with us. joining the conversation, we have the host of the podcast "on brand with donny deutsch," donny deutsch. congressional investigations reporter for "the washington post," jackie alemany is with us. and msnbc contributor and author of the book "how the right lost its mind," charlie sykes is with us this hour. house lawmakers over the weekend approved a $95 billion foreign aid package. >> on this vote, 366 ayes and the bill is passed. without objection, a motion to reconsider is laid on the table. >> members on the floor cheered the funding which passed overwhelmingly on saturday. many of them were waving ukrainian flags. meanwhile, ukrainian soldiers are showing their appreciation on the front lines.

>> this kindergarten was destroyed by russian invasion. now, since the support of the american people, ukraine will lead the world in stopping this terrorism and genocide. god bless america. >> wow. the package includes more than $60 billion in aid for the war-torn country. $26 billion for israel. $8 billion for the indo-pacific. a fourth bill would force tiktok's parent company, based in china, to sell the platform. president biden put out a statement after the bill was passed, writing in part, "members of both parties in the house voted to advance our national security interests and send a clear message about the power of american leadership on the world stage." the senate is expected to pass the legislation as early as tomorrow and send it to the president's desk. >> jon meacham, so much at stake

here. the least of it not being american's standing in the world. >> right. >> in the post war, world war ii world, that the collective security that we've built up across the globe that has, at the end of the day, benefitted the united states of america, is much or more than anybody else, that has been under attack. that has been under threat since donald trump came to power, trying to push back assurances from nato, attacking democratically-elected allies, while elevating people like vladimir putin, tyrants like putin, president xi, kim jong-un. and the republican party has moved with him. a majority of republicans in the house voted with donald trump, voted with vladimir putin, against aid, of course, for ukraine, but the speaker

followed the leadership of people like mike mccaul, mike turner, and, well, he did what americans have been doing since world war ii, the right thing, guaranteeing that russian aggression does not push people out of their own country. >> yeah. one way to think about this is to think about the three successive presidents from world war ii forward. fdr said, every word that comes through the air, every ship that sails at sea, every plane that flies through the air does affect america and america's future. harry truman, as you know well, builds this -- helps build this remarkable collective security. and dwight eisenhower runs for president in 1952, not least because robert taft, the republican senator, would not commit to nato. if you think about a failure to commit to nato in the 1950s into

the 60s, cataclysm could have resulted because of the encroachments of the soviet union. hard to imagine there might not have been a nuclear exchange in europe then. the lesson of history, you confront threats early so they do not metastasize. what the speaker did here with the leadership of the president is a really remarkable and strong moment, as we like to talk about. he may have come to it late, but that doesn't matter. this is like the prodigal son, right? we celebrate when we get the right result. >> right. it turns out the big winner of this congress is president joe biden. punch bowl news points out house republicans came into the 118th congress with big plans. they were going to cut taxes and spending, impeach president joe biden and members of his cabinet, and use their leverage to force democrats to accept stringent, new border security

and immigration policies. they could have gotten that but -- in short, they were going to shake up washington with biden as their main focus. that didn't happen. instead, biden has gotten pretty much everything he's asked for from this congress without having to concede much in return. house republicans paid a much higher price due to their internal discord and dissension. gop lawmakers have ousted one speaker while another may be forced to turn to democrats to remain in power. jackie, i turn to you here about mike johnson. will he lose his speakership? will democrats back him? return for what he did? what do you know about his evolution toward aid for ukraine? he visited mar-a-lago recently. he wasn't just going against his far-right flank in congress but donald trump in this decision. >> yes, mika. those are all very good and

prescient questions that we were all asking on the hill on saturday when we thought we were going to have to sort of squash the recess coming up and stay to cover a motion to vacate. however, that was not ultimately introduced by marjorie taylor greene and thomas massie. they've decided to delay that push to potentially oust johnson and, instead, angrily ended a historic day with calls for him to resign. they told reporters that they wanted to have mike johnson and other members go home to their constituents and hear from them directly about how allegedly angry they're going to be that johnson betrayed the base and some of the maga disciples to pass this foreign aid. but that attitude toward johnson and sort of this very small and increasingly diminishing cohort of johnson's detractors was really not the main occasion on

saturday. it was, despite all of the rigmarole and the anti-johnson chatter, which is coming from thest voices in the room, a historic and joyful day. people walking out of the chamber and realizing that johnson had this evolution. there is an incredible piece about the evolution of the johnson that started in december and january, when he decided he wanted to become more of a reagan republican and was able to ultimately push this through. of course, it came with some pain, but there were important pressure points along the way. as joe pointed out, this decision was largely, in part, due to the three mikes, mike mccaul, turner, and -- i'm blanking on the third mike here -- basically, the three mikes that run the senate -- the house intelligence committees, house foreign affairs

committees, basically the people who are in the room for these most confidential briefings who are getting a real and full assessment of the landscape overseas. they also -- mike johnson heard from people like congressman max miller, who in a republican study meeting earlier this month, gave a very tearful account of how his -- the majority of his family was killed in the holocaust and that without support from the united states, you know, ultimately, it could have been a very different story. he saw parallels to the situation in ukraine. there was a confluence of factors that pushed mike johnson over the edge, to not longer just be a congressman representing his state but be the speaker of the house representing the country. >> donny, the contribution to ukraine became really politically contentious this last go-around. it passed. today, it's a victory for biden and what he sees as the national interest of the united benefit,

though, if we come to september/october and the war in ukraine is still plodding along, there's no real change in ground energy, and it's still just, you know, trench warfare? >> you know, whether he benefits or not, this week, let's celebrate for a minute that the system worked thisworked on a c. a human being, a profile in courage, stood up and did the right thing and was not tribal for a moment, went against and put his job on the line, and the checks and balances that are supposed to be there worked. we had the right person in the right place. at the same time, we're watching donald trump, a former president, sit in a courtroom, proving that nothing is against the law. we pull our hair out a lot, rightfully so, with what goes on in the news every they and how things don't work. this is an example, and i just felt so good despite all the bad in the world, that, wait a second, yes, we can have a

republican stand up. by the way, the middle stood up to both fringes, because the left fringe and right fringe voted against something we all know is right for the country. all while a president, whether you like him or not, is sitting under trial, under our system of judicial process. good week for americans. >> to elise's question, also, donny, we have no idea what impact he could have in the weeks and months to come. he has had impact before in the political process, but right now, trump is in court. all day, almost every day of the week. he's obsessed with what's happening in court. he's extremely distracted. i think it has muted his ability to be involved in every piece of what's happening in washington because he is obsessed with his own ability to stay out of jail or other things, but just obsessed with what's in front of him. >> we all would. >> complete control over the way he behaves for eight hours a

day. >> it is challenging. let me go to charlie sykes. charlie, it was -- by the way, the mikes had it. mike johnson, mike mccaul, mike turner, and mike rogers. the mikes had it. i'm curious how you feel. you know, this congress, joe biden has passed so much through this congress, more than any other president as far as bipartisan legislation, in decades. let's focus really quickly on the party that we once knew. certainly seems that at least in the form of mike johnson and these other national security and intel leaders, they certainly -- i'd say they've found their bearings, but those chairman never lost their bearings. i don't think we can understate

how important it was that they were constantly reminding the new speaker just how serious this battle was. >> no. this is a really remarkable moment for the republican party. i mean, you had profiles in courage, which is, of course, vanishingly rare in the republican party. you had statesmanship, bipartisanship, and this incredibly dysfunctional congress took a break from dysfunction and passed one of the most significant foreign aid packages in years. overwhelmingly. you cannot understate how significant that is or how important the leadership of mike johnson was in all of this. i know it is described as an evolution, but it kind of felt like a road to damascus thunderbolt when he came out and, you know, kind of sounded a little bit like ronald reagan. this is a party that ronald reagan would recognize, which is an extraordinary thing to say given everything that's been happening. mike johnson listened to the intelligence committee. he believed the intelligence

community over vladimir putin. he listened to the foreign policy experts and ultimately did the right thing. but having said that, and i guess i want to put one cautionary note here, you know, because i don't want to understate how significant this was, how encouraging this was, but a reminder that this is still donald trump's party. in less than three months in my hometown of milwaukee, we will witness, once again, the coronation of donald trump by the republican party. all of these folks who had this temporary flash of courage and statesmanship will line up behind donald trump. >> right. >> we know what a party led by donald trump means for our allies. we know what it means for russia and for ukraine. so i don't want to rain on the parade because i think this was an extraordinary moment, but it was a flash of reaganism, but this is not reagan's party. it is not nikki haley's party. it's not mike pence's party.

it is still donald trump's party. >> i think that's fair. but i don't think we know what the next couple of months look like for donald trump. >> it'll be fascinating. >> unlike the people who are in washington listening to the vote do down and listening to the response from ukraine, donald trump will be listening to opening statements set to begin in his hush money criminal trial in new york city. he'll be in the courtroom for that. and a source with direct knowledge of the situation tells nbc news that david pecker, a former friend of donald trump's, will be the first witness for the prosecution beginning today. he is the former ceo of american media incorporated, who bought and buried damaging stories about trump. meanwhile, south dakota's republican governor, kristi noem, says she'll stand by former president trump even if he gets convicted in his criminal hush money case. >> i'm hoping these jurors can come in and be unbiased and will

let this case go forward in a swift manner that allows president trump to get back on the campaign trail. americans deserve to hear from their candidates. the democrats and the activists are using this trial to derail him, to keep him in court instead of out talking to americans about what their real concerns are. their real concerns are their everyday lives. they need a leader in the white house who gets up every day and puts them first and doesn't raise their taxes, doesn't overregulate them, take away freedoms, and give all our money to other countries instead of taking care of america first and keeping you are safe and secure. >> i want to say for the record, there is no evidence that president biden is involved in this. this is a case that is being brought in the state of new york by the manhattan d.a. >> that's -- and that's what i think is remarkable. if you look at president biden and what he's done, what his son has done, and the fact that -- >> that has nothing -- >> -- they're not being prosecuted for their crimes they've committed. >> that has nothing to do with this. >> is unprecedented. >> that has nothing to do with this.

big picture, governor, if donald trump is convicted in this trial, will you still support him in november? >> if i'm choosing between joe biden and donald trump, every single day of the week, yes, i will support donald trump. i have from the very beginning. he has been someone that i have supported since 2016 because i recognize that he didn't think he was better than anybody else in the country. he wanted to serve in the office so he could fight for them every single day. >> first of all, he inherited $400 million. >> she lied so many different times there. >> it is hard to keep up with it. >> it was hard to keep up. dana did a good job. >> she will continue to support donald trump despite the stench of corruption that's around him. you look at what a judge in new york, talking about how he's a rapist, she stands behind him. you look at the fact that he's found guilty of fraud. republicans still stand behind him. you go on and on.

then the lies about joe biden and, you know, this biden crime family thing. >> oh, my god. >> just stop. you're talking to yourself. >> obsession. >> not only that, they make fools of themselves time and time again. they've been lying about this for three years now. you know, ginni thomas lying about this when she wanted to overthrow american democracy, lying about the quote of biden crime family and how they should be on a barge. again, the committee that arnold the pig is the legal counsel. >> comer. >> yeah, comer's committee, they keep making fools of themselves. donny, i have to say, at some point, at some point, you know, the chickens come home to roost. when you make a fool of yourself time and time again trying to go after joe biden, you don't know

how to run the house of representatives, you've got a candidate who a judge says is guilty of rape, you've got a candidate who another judge says is guilty of, you know, guilty of fraud. >> takes credit for overturning roe. >> yeah. of course, we could talk about roe. again, i'm talking about the stench of corruption. then you have the documents case that even pro-trump attorneys say is a really strong case against donald trump. so, again, i know people get triggered when they see stuff like that. i just think it catches up to them at the end. >> yeah, i think the answer, hunter biden, is not a good rebuke against a president, as you said, who has 91 counts against him and is sitting in a courtroom in new york city. >> i think it is 88, 86 now. only 86 or 88 now. >> that's right.

they threw some out. if that's all you've got, and this is somebody who is potentially a vice presidential choice for donald trump, if that's your answer, you've got problems. the republicans have problems. you know, the "post" headline earlier of marjorie taylor greene, you know, they're on the wrong side of just every issue. you mentioned abortion. you mentioned -- >> they are. >> they're literally on the wrong side of every issue. at some point, voters vote, yes, for candidate, but they vote on what's best for them, for the country, for their family. the republicans are on the wrong side of every single issue. that's why it was so refreshing this weekend to see what mike johnson did. >> yeah. >> you know, and republicans have long done very well. you know, they talk about guns, gays, abortion, whatever, and democrats were always painted as the radicals. it is amazing what the radicalism of donald trump and the radicalism of elements of

the republican party, it's amazing, the dynamics they've set up in elections. democrats want to talk about abortion because the issue is a winner. they want to talk about gun safety because gun safety as an issue is a winner. 90% of americans want universal background checks. you have republicans running around talking about how everybody needs a gun, everybody needs an ar-15 to protect themselves against the government. well, no, government is not coming. only people that are coming are people that go and shoot up schools, that shoot up churches in texas, that shoot up country music festivals in las vegas, that continue to shoot up neighborhoods and restaurants. republicans on the wrong side of issue after issue after issue with middle americans. >> because they've won on them. americans are going to have to endure the wrath of these

policies, the lack of gun policies and the overturning of roe, in real time. then it will ultimately turn back against them. a new ad from the group republican voters against trump is focusing on how the former president's legal issues may be a liability for the presidency. let's take a listen. >> i was wondering if you guys are hiring. i was applying for a job. i was thinking about applying for a job here. i'm currently faing 88 felonies. for detention of classified information. falsifying business records. i was wondering if that was going to be a problem. >> we have diamonds and jewelry, yes. >> we'll do a background check. >> probably not? >> yeah. >> do you hire people that sexually assault other people or -- >> no. >> we do a fullback ground. wouldn't go through.

>> no, we don't. >> i don't think so. >> okay. >> yeah. >> donald trump has been charged with 88 felonies and found liable for sexual assault. if trump is too big of a liability to get a job at your local mall, he is too big of a liability to be president of the united states. >> wow. let's bring in the executive director of the republican accountability project, sarah longwell. great to have you on the show this morning. i do think that it's unknown how things might change for trump as these trials drag on, especially the one he is in now. that ad kind of crystallizes some of the challenges he faces straight ahead. what are you seeing in terms of the liability for president trump with the cases that are still in the future? >> look, as you know, i do focus groups with swing voters and voters across the political spectrum every week. one of the things we could see is that because donald trump has so many charges against him, there are so many different

cases, the voters are having difficulty kind of, you know, teasing them out, understanding the difference. because this one right now, basically because it contains the word porn star in the description, sometimes voters take it less seriously than they do some of the ones that we aren't sure will actually come to trial before the election. what we wanted to do with the ad is really underscore that donald trump's level of legal liability, this guy couldn't get a job at the local mall, right? the idea that -- you know, a fast food restaurant wouldn't hire him with his record. the idea that we would make him president of the united states again, like, we get numb to it, right? we get sort of numb to who donald trump is. because it's always so much, it's so many charges, it's so many, you know, felonies, it's easy to just let it wash over you, but we really wanted to

underscore, this is crazy. you know, the idea that we would give this man access to classified documents again, after the way that he handled classified documents, refused to give them back, i mean, there's just so many things about what we have seen from his behavior since he has been president. i'm not talking about even the person we saw who was president, but what we know about him since he left office that absolutely is disqualifying. i think because there is a numbness to voters, because you have two functional incumbents running against each other, people are depressed by sort of seeing a rerun of 2020, you do have to start showing people just how crazy this is. we'll have to have new ways to wake people up to the insanity of all this. >> sarah, it's donny. i think the ad is fantastic. the work you've been doing is fantastic. you're doing, as you mentioned, a lot of focus groups with republican voters. what seems to be the key button issue or issues that's

resonating with republican voters who are possibly going to be leaving trump and going to biden? >> so when there's sort of these two-time trump voters who have decided they're out on donald trump, it tends to be january 6th. like, there was a break moment for a certain section of republican voters. i know we hear a lot about how -- and it's true, look, most republican voters absolutely are tolerant of trump's behavior, defend his behavior, have continued to do from, you know, january 6th being a terrible day to, now, you know, supporting, saying that january 6th -- the people who attacked the capitol are hostages. but there are this subset of people, and i have to tell ya, they tend to be older republicans, because they are the republicans who came of age under ronald reagan, who, you know, still believe in a republican party based on limited government, free markets, american leadership in the world, and they're the ones who, after january 6th, said, i'm done.

now, not all of those people are going to vote for joe biden. a lot of them are still very tribal. but they will not vote for donald trump again. obviously, there's also abortion is a big issue for a lot of republican men and women. then these court cases. you know, there is still a group of voters who think that, look, if the president is -- former president is convicted of a crime, that that makes it much harder for them to vote for him. >> all right. sarah longwell, thank you so much. charlie sykes, i'm curious your thoughts. one of the most important swing states, if not the most important swing state of wisconsin, how do you think the trials are going to play for undecided voters? >> of course, we don't actually know, but i continue to be skeptical that there is a voter who will watch the trials and say, i didn't vote for donald trump before but now i'll vote for the guy. as sarah says, we have been

numbed about it. over the next few months, we're going to be reminded who this guy is. i think what this ad does, it highlights something that i think is extraordinary. run through the mental experiment of imagining what job in american society would donald trump be qualified for, other than the presidency. we have saved our lowest standard. you wouldn't hire him at the mall. you wouldn't hire him to babysit your kids. you would not hire him to be the ceo of a publicly traded company. you cannot imagine -- >> never. >> -- any institution of, you know, any school or institution of higher education hiring him. i can't imagine any corporation putting him on their board of directors. >> never. >> he wouldn't be qualified for any position in the u.s. military. you know, go through all of this. it's an interesting point. if you wouldn't do business with him, if you wouldn't hire him, if you wouldn't associate with him, why would you give him the nuclear codes? why would you make him the commander in chief and put him

back in the presidency? i think it's a very powerful -- that's a very, very powerful argument, and i think it will play with at least a subset of undecided, swing voters. >> well, it certainly should. a critical question to be answered by those undecided voters over the next six months. thanks so much, charlie. thank you to the "washington post"'s jackie alemany for your great reporting, as always. greatly appreciate it. >> great to have you all this morning. one of the throughlines to what we've been discussing is the notion of character. it is really going to be playing out in the trial we'll be watching this week. joining us is a woman who worked for the 41st president, jean becker, author of "character matters: and other life lessons from george h.w. bush." it is great to have you on the show, jean. i love the timing for this book. i feel like it is going to

remind people of the greatest parts of public service, whether you're a democrat or republican. i think it is fair to say. george h.w. bush, character mattered to him in his administration. >> good morning. i'm so honored to be with you all this morning. boy, timing is everything. i've been sitting here trying to figure out how i can make this book mandatory reading for every single person in washington, d.c. if you all have any good ideas, i would love to hear them. but the book is all about character and president bush's leadership skills. one of my favorite quotes in the book is from former british prime minister major, who said working with george bush was like taking a master class in leadership. >> and his relationships, he worked on them. whether he needed them or not, whether they were timely or not,

this was something that was important to his leadership. can you tell us a little bit about that? >> he was famous, mika, for calling heads of state every single day, just to check in. and not just the heads of state of our major allies, the g7 countries, for example, but he'd call heads of states in africa and south america, and just say, "how are you doing today? what's going on in your country?" one of the best paragraphs in the book, i think, is from vice president dick cheney, who write s the definitive essay about desert storm. he talks about bringing the coalition of countries together for desert storm. how all of these heads of state already had a relationship with him. vice president, then secretary of defense cheney, flew to saudi arabia to talk to the king about allowing american troops on saudi soil. at the end of his pitch to the

king, the king looked at him and simply said, "yes, because i trust george bush." >> jon meacham has the next question. meacham? >> so you all should know that president bush once said that he could not adequately express his thanks to jean becker for all she did for him. i think that is an enduring truth. jean, this is -- you did a marvelous memoir about your post-presidential years with him. you wanted to do this, as well. what about this moment makes president bush so relevant? >> first of all, good morning, jon. it is great to see you. you know, this book was actually my editor's idea. i'm sort of embarrassed to admit that because it is brilliant. he wanted me to write another book about president bush. i looked at him when he brought it up and said, "you do remember

he died at the end of the last book?" he -- which is true. he said, "i don't think we're done with him, jean. i think there is so much we can learn from him." and so what i did is i reached out to all the people who knew him best. that would include jon meacham. i said, "what did you learn from him? what can you -- can you send me your thoughts?" i think 156 people contributed to this book. it's everybody from john major, bob gates and secretary baker wrote the foreword, to bill clinton and nancy pelosi, to reba mcentire, to the gardner at walkers point. the timing is perfect. i'm getting emails and texts and calls from all over the country,

from people who are reading the book and just so grateful for its positive message at this time. >> the new book is entitled "character matters: and other life lessons from george h.w. bush." jean becker, your publisher was right 100%. thank you so much for doing this. congratulations on the book. jon meacham, thank you, as well. still ahead on "morning joe," with the summer olympics less than 100 days away, a new controversy involving swimmers from china has prompted accusations of a coverup. we'll bring in one of the reporters whobroke that story. plus, a new warning to jewish students at columbia university after continued, heated pro-palestinian protests on that campus. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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live look at new york city at 38 past the hour. speaking of new york city, columbia university is holding classes virtually today following demonstrations over the war in gaza on campus. the university's president made the announcement earlier this morning, and it comes just a day after a well-known rabbi at the

school urged jewish students to leave campus as soon as possible. in an online post, the rabbi called the recent demonstrations terrible and tragic, saying the university and police, quote, cannot guarantee jewish students' safety in the face of extreme anti-semitism and anarchy. a group representing jewish campus life, however, says it does not believe students should leave columbia and are calling on the university and city to do more to ensure students' safety. last thursday, more than 100 people were arrested on campus after setting up a gaza solidarity encampment. the pro-palestinian protests then continued throughout the weekend. some jewish students say they've been threatened with hate speech and calls for violence. columbia's president says tensions have been exploited and amplified by individuals who are not affiliated with the school and that appropriate action has

been taken. president biden addressed the unrest in a statement marking the jewish holiday, passover. writing in part, quote, in recent days, we have seen harassment and calls for violence against jews. this blatant anti-semitism is reprehensible and dangerous and has absolutely no place on college campuses or anywhere in our country. donny, first i want to get your take on this. reverend al sharpton joining us, as well, and would love to hear from you, too, rev. >> yeah. >> donny. >> it's sad. we're in 2024. the upper west side of new york city, jews are told by their rabbi, or suggested they should leave because it is unsafe. these are not protesters. these are violent, hatemongerers. the things coming out of their mouth, "burn down tel aviv." october 7th, we'll do it again,

a hundred times, a thousand times. this is an atrocity. i'll say the quiet part out loud. if there was any group spewing hate and violence against any other group, asians, blacks, hispanics, gays, it'd be shut down. this needs to be shut down immediately. once again, those groups are back. those tents are back up. this cannot go unanswered. it's very simple. you know, there is a continuum of protesters. there is a heinous anti-violent ones that are spewing hatred, spewing death, if you will, and then there's the less malignant that say "cease-fire." even cease-fire doesn't have the word peace in it. never do you hear peace. this side doesn't want peace. it wants a jihad. this is not pro-palestinian. this is anti-israel. anti-israel is a misnomer because it is really anti-jew. it makes me sick, and it is terrifying. >> i think that -- and i have people that are members of national action network that go to columbia. i think that there's been the

problem we've seen in a lot of movements, where people infiltrate, come from out side, where there is a legitimate concern about humanitarian aid to gaza and a stand for a two-state solution, that others come in with kill israel, kill jews. we've had that in various movements that we've been connected. i've learned, which is why i had to sever some ties and start national action network, you have to denounce that. the people there that are legitimately protesting or start protesting non-violently, concerned about gaza, should say, "we're not part of that." because they're being used by people that don't want to see something happen for the people in gaza. they use them as props for their own ways and come with hate, anti-semitism, to denounce people because of their jewish faith, to denounce students

because they're on campus and jewish, is just as bad as if you did it because they were black or palestinian. you can't have a convenient moral code. you have to stand for everyone or nobody. >> amen. >> we'll follow this story as it develops. now, we turn to democratic senator raphael warnock of georgia who has just returned from a trip to italy. while there, the senator met with pope francis at the vatican. the two discussed some of the pressing issues facing the world at the moment, including the humanitarian crisis in gaza and russia's war on ukraine. senator warnock joins us now. i'm curious what you heard from the pope, senator, about the conflicts in gaza and ukraine. sort of faith leader to faith leader. >> thank you so very much, mika. it is great, always, to be with you. yes, i just returned yesterday from a visit to rome. spent time with the holy father.

he's someone whose ministry and whose sense of servant leadership i have long admired. it was a real honor to spend time with him. we talked about a range of issues, and we got a chance to spend some time together in prayer, as well. >> reverend senator warnock, one of the things that i read you and he discussed, what was going on in gaza, ukraine, and in sudan, where there's not a lot of, in my opinion, enough attention on sudan. but the thread through that as faith leaders, which both you and i am, is the concern about victims that are being overlooked, that are suffering, that have nothing to do with any of the wars or the conflicts that they've been subject to. talk about how you and the pope discussed this kind of moral dilemma we're in, where innocent

people are being slain in various parts of the world and it seems that there is no end in sight. >> well, that's right, reverend sharpton. this is a time that requires moral voices, spiritual voices, even from those who claim no particular faith tradition but come with a kind of moral bearing. the thing about pope francis is that he centers human dignity. particularly the dignity of the most marginalized members of the human family. that is something that i tried to do in my ministry and in my work in the united states senate. and it is so important at this moment in which our country is so divided. we're seeing worldwide the rise of anti-semitic sentiment, islamophobia, bigotry, authoritarian voices that are trying to take advantage of the deep distress that people are feeling in a moment like this.

here's a man with some 1.3 billion catholics who are under his charge and, yet, he was very much focused on the parrish that he has there in gaza. he talks regularly with the folks who are there. like me, he believes that the only viable way to peace, a jewish democratic state in peace with its neighbors, is a two-state solution, which is something that he supports. i was honored to spend time and talk to him about how we get there so that cooler heads prevail and the voices of peace push us towards a vision that embraces a humanity of all of us. >> senator warnock, elise jordan here. while you were in italy, you also met with the head of the world food program, cindy mccain. what'd you learn about the challenges we're having, the

world food program is having, getting aid to gaza and sudan? >> yeah, it was good to spend time with cindy mccain, but also the leaders of various faith-based agencies that are providing humanitarian assistance and food and aid at a moment like this. we have some 310 million people right now who need food assistance. that's up by 200 million. at the same time, the leaders and the workers in those organizations told me that they're dealing with donor fatigue. we are far behind getting the kinds of resources that we need. it's important that all of us raise our voices, that we reach wide and high, that we remember that hunger is a moral issue. it's also a peace issue. it is a -- food security is

national security. which is why i support humanitarian aid and i want to see us get it to gaza and to sudan, which has been ignored, even though it is one of the worst humanitarian issues right now on the globe. we can't get that aid soon enough. >> democratic senator raphael warnock of georgia, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. and still ahead, coming up, a "new york times" investigation finds nearly two dozen chinese swimmers tested positive for a banned substance ahead of the olympic games and were still allowed to compete. we'll dig into the controversy and what it could mean for this year's summer games. we're back in two minutes. we're.

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welcome back. according to a report in the "new york times," 23 chinese

swimmers were cleared to compete at the 2021 tokyo olympics despite testing positive for a banned heart medmedication. that's because the world anti-doping federation agreed with chinese authorities and agreed their samples had been contaminated. the chinese team won three medals in tokyo including three golds. many of those athletes are expected to compete this summer at the olympics in paris. joining us now, one of the reporters behind the story, investigative reporter for the "new york times," michael schmidt. what more can you tell us? were there contamination involved in taking these drugs? did these drugs help them win? what more do we know? >> so what happened was in the middle of the pandemic, a slew of chinese swimmers got together to, at a competition, to essentially prepare for the olympics, and they were tested there. when the results were finally

looked at, many of the top swimmers, nearly half of the team -- the swimming team that would eventually go to the olympics, tested positive for this drug, tnz. they should have been at the very least, initially suspended, but what the chinese did, is they brought in essentially their fbi. they did an investigation, and they said that the reason these athletes had tested positive was because they had eaten at a contaminated kitchen, that this investigative unit for the -- for the chinese went in, and was able to find traces of this drug in a kitchen in spice containers and in a vent, and in what some of what they called sludge, and they said, because of that, even though the chinese could not answer how this drug -- this is a prescription heart medication that makes it much easier to work out and train. they couldn't explain how it got

into the kitchen and how it got into the food. all they could say is traces of it were found in this kitchen and they said, because of that, this was a mass contamination event, and there should be no discipline for the athletes. it was all kept secret and the world anti-doping agency which is supposed to be the big backstop here. it's supposed to make sure countries follow the rules and appropriately sanction their athletes. that big, bad backstop that holds itself as the gold standard of anti-doping, they said, okay. and they went along with it. >> we see a parallel here. covid hits the universe and we're not supposed to ask any questions about it. how did you get this story? you entered a black vault, breaking anything about china that has the government involved. this is olympians. tell me about how you reported out this story because it really is a huge coup.

>> so i think that because of the way that this was handled, and the fact that it was done in secret, and the fact that there was not a lot of transparency into it led those people who knew about it to be agitated and concerned in a way and fear that there was a coverup, and because of that, anonymous people initially started reporting this to other anti-doping agencies, to the united states anti-doping agency, to another group in switzerland, and these anonymous people were saying, hey. something really crazy happened here, and we're -- we don't trust that this was handled above board, and these weren't just, like, run of the mill swimmers. one of the swimmers is one of the best female swimmers in the entire world. she set olympic and world records at the olympics, and i think because of that, we were able to pry out information

because people looked at this and said, this just doesn't pass the smell test. >> wow. >> investigative reporter for the "new york times," michael schmidt. thank you very much for coming on this morning. coming up, donald trump's criminal hush money trial will resume in about an hour and a half. we're going to bring in a new panel of legal analysts ahead of opening statements today. we're back in 90 seconds. g staty we're back in 90 seconds i don't want you to move. i'm gonna miss you so much.

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all right. a minnesota driver narrowly survived a fiery crash after a group of brave bystanders rushed to rescue. nbc news correspondent hallie jackson has more on this. >> reporter: the horrific scene off i-94 in minnesota, a car crashing into a lamp post up in flames. the driver, trapped. >> we have people still inside. >> reporter: then one after the other, good samaritans, pulling over, racing to help. you can see them desperately trying to pull the car door open as it jammed up against the car rail. >> there was a moment when we thought, like, we literally lost them. >> reporter: but the flames erupting, chasing the bystanders away. undeterred, they rush back in. a highway worker finally smashing the window open. the group pulling the driver to safety right as the fire burst into the front seat. >> this is something that i will never forget. it's a good feeling to know that you saved somebody's life.

>> that's incredible. that was nbc's hallie jackson reporting. still ahead here on "morning joe," we've got a live report from outside the courthouse in lower manhattan ahead of opening statements this morning in donald trump's criminal hush money trial. and we'll have the latest from capitol hill after the house passed a package of foreign aid bills over the weekend, but one key issue was noticeably missing from all of that legislation. that's all ahead on "morning joe." we're back in just two minutes with a packed 8:00 a.m. hour. sup? -who are you? i'm your inner child. get in. listen, what you really need in life is some freakin' torque. what? horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. what happened to my inner child

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this trial is really wearing on donald trump. i have been watching him. oh my god, because people get to talk about him. he has to sit there for hours without saying anything. [ laughter ] kind of like he did on january 6th. [ applause ] >> and we'll get you caught up on donald trump's hush money

trial with expert legal analysis ahead of opening statements which are set for later this morning, and who will reportedly be the first witness called by the prosecution? >> we want to talk about that trial. >> all weekend long, twitter was going wild. also ahead, it appears ukraine will finally get the critical funding it needs after the house passed a package of foreign aid bills which includes more military support for israel as well. the bill now heads to the senate despite efforts by marjorie taylor greene who got called out, yes, by the "new york post." >> nyet. >> kind of sums it up though. welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, april 22nd. good to have you all with us. also with us, the former aide to the george w. bush white house, elise jordan, historian jon

meacham, and ed luce is with us. >> we'll get to the opening statements in the hush money trial, but first, jon meacham, i don't want to ever be melodramatic on things like this, but that saturday vote was one that will be remembered for quite some time. it certainly will be remembered by our european allies who were beginning to question whether america was still in the fight for freedom. >> yeah. >> i think it was remarkable, and i think that i know it may not be popular in a polarized time to say so, but i think the speaker of the house did exactly the right thing. >> exactly. >> i read "the new york times" piece about how he got there, and if you read that piece, you see it was a case where he educated himself. he listened to people who knew more than he did, did not prejudge it in the end, and it's

a reminder that, you know, so much of the time, if you actually take the effort to understand the complexities of something that seem simple, you get to a different place, and that's what we want in leadership and citizenship. >> yeah. we will -- ed luce, as we say all the time, meacham and i of course, being from the south, protestants from the south, we take conversions any time, any place, anywhere. if you want to go down to the river and pray, you do it, sir, and looks like mike johnson at least on this one issue, stopped sounding like donald trump, started sounding like ronald reagan, and dr. brzezinski and others who have understood the danger of an aggressive russia. >> yeah. i think it was not so much a

come to jesus moment as a come to bill burns, the director of cia moment because clearly the briefing speaker johnson got was strong and shocking enough for him to realize he would be on the wrong side of history if he didn't do the right thing, and he did -- as jon said, he did do the right thing, and he really deserves applause for that even though it was several months too late, but the -- the price he's going to pay for this is yet to be seen, and, you know -- >> right. >> i do expect there will be some kind of motion to vacate soon. >> well, the democrats most likely will -- will support him in that. we'll see what happens here. elise, though, you know, it's so fascinating about these briefings that the speaker received. it made him understand that he really didn't have much of a choice if he wanted to do what was best for america, the best

for western europe, the best for the west, the best for freedom. >> bill burns is a legendary diplomat, and i would have loved to have been in that room for the meeting as i'm sure we all would have, to learn and hear what really was his take on the stakes here. i do hope that the biden administration's doing whatever they can to push the ukrainians to -- not only to success, but to start seriously thinking about negotiations and what are going to have to be the concessions they want from putin. what are going to be the concessions they're willing to make, because at the end of the day, if we're just funneling billions of billions without any end state in mind or any strategy to lead to that end state, that does feed into what the other side's argument was, that there has to be some kind of strategy and some kind of end in sight instead of just spending money on endless war. >> well, i will say inside the white house the belief has been, we need this money so we can move both sides toward a

settlement. without this money, putin goes wherever he wants to go. with the support, with the united states and europe behind zelenskyy's fight, behind ukraine's fight, that's the best hope of ending this war, and i certainly agree with that assessment. it makes a lot of sense. i do want to say, yes. it was the cia director's briefing and other briefings that mike johnson got, but as we learned during donald trump's administration, being told the right thing to do, the responsible thing to do doesn't always lead leaders in this age of trump to doing it. again, very grateful that mike johnson listened and came out, did the right thing. >> made his own decision. >> he made his own decision, put his job on the line. >> what do we call that? >> that's courage. >> it's courage. >> applause going up along the ukrainian line.

the russian invaders enraged that america was still there to fight, but, you know, i will say the speaker also -- i've got to say again, had chairman mccaul behind him, chairman turner. he had other republican chairmen who kept stressing the importance not just of pushing back on russia, but pushing back on xi and pushing back on kim jong-un and pushing back on iran and showing them through supporting our allies who were under duress, that america will be there. >> right. >> messaging across the world on saturday. can't overstate it. >> we'll have much more with david ignatius on this in a moment. our other huge story starts today. former president donald trump's criminal hush money trial, after jury selection wrapped up on friday. the 12-person jury is made up of seven men and five women along with six alternates.

later this morning, both the prosecution and the defense are expected to lay out their cases during opening statements. according to the "new york times," the prosecution plans to frame trump's actions of payments to keep adult film actress stormy daniels quiet about an alleged affair as election interference. the defense meanwhile will seize on three apparent weak points. witness credibility, the president's culpability, and the case's legal complexity. one of the potential first witnesses expected to testify is david pecker, the former ceo of american media incorporated who bought and buried damaging stories about trump. it's called catch and kill. he has alleged to have worked with trump and his former attorney, michael cohen, to bury the stormy daniels story. other witnesses expected to testify include michael cohen, stormy daniels, former trump

aide, hope hicks, and former "playboy" model, karen mcdougal who also had a sexual relationship with trump. as he left court on friday, he continued to insist he plans to testify in his own defense. joining us now, former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent, lisa rubin, and also msnbc legal analyst, danny cevallos. we thought we would hear from trump, but we've heard what we need to hear. what do we expect today? we know one of the witnesses is david pecker. do you expect that opening statements get finished today or just technically what are we looking for in terms of getting accomplished today in court? >> mika, a lot of the judicial housekeeping you would expect to be taken care of has all been brushed off judge merchan's plate.

he decided, we have a jury. that's all been set. i expect very soon after 9:30 this morning, we will get to opening statements and while neither of the parties has outlined exactly how long they will take, as danny knows better than anyone, an opening statement is an opportunity to preview your case for the jury, and while you want to do that in a way that gives them an overview, you also don't want to exhaust them. i expect that neither side will take more than roughly 60 to 70 minutes, and that means that we will have time to get to the first witness who as you noted, is expected to be former chairman of american media and "the national enquirer," david pecker. >> lisa, where are we on jurors these days? two had to leave, and there were only six spares to begin with. so does that mean we're down to four potential spares or -- >> no. >> how many do we have left, and are they sequestered? can you just talk a little bit about how they are being managed so to speak during this process as all this intense scrutiny,

and there's so much press surrounding it? >> right. so the two jurors that we lost were replaced that same day leading to a total of 12 jurors who have been seated. in addition so that, we do have six alternates. the jurors, however, are not sequestered, elise. there have been accommodations made to ensure their anonymity. however, we don't know, for example, what provisions are being taken to get them to the courthouse for their departure from the courthouse, what the lunch provisions are. in federal court, in the e. jean carroll trials, both of those juries were not only anonymous, but steps were taken to ensure that for example, they didn't come directly from their home to the courthouse. they met the u.s. marshals at an offsite location, and they met understood ground so no one would see their comings and goings. i'm hopeful that judge merchan is able to make some similar provisions for the jurors in this case, so they can remain

protected throughout the duration of the trial. >> so here's the thing. i think juror attrition could be a real problem in this case. i mean, just do the math. last week, we lost two jurors before the trial even began. when you think about it, you do lose jurors during a trial. i've lost them. they fell asleep. they don't follow the judge's orders, but you don't normally lose a juror after the moment they're selected and between that and the time that the trial actually begins because ordinarily, nothing happens during that time, but in this case, you have an example where a juror goes home, they start really thinking about their duty and what this is going to entail, and they come back and say, you know what? i don't want to do this anymore. by the way, that's also something that happens from time to time. i have had it in organized crime cases. you have jurors that come up to the judge that say, i'll do anything. i don't want to be on this jury. i'm afraid. that's not obviously the same situation here, be you have jurors who are going to have second thoughts, and the question becomes, will six

alternates be enough to do this trial? i hope so, but if that's the rate of loss of jurors, two before we even start the trial, that could be a real problem and that could lead to a mistrial, and i think in the defense's view is a win. even though it means you start the trial again in a year or something like that, but they schedule them as soon as they possibly can, but juror attrition is going to be a real issue in this case, and again, i couldn't agree more with lisa. opening statements are not going to be all day. look for an hour from the prosecution and probably less from the defense because all they're doing today is offering a preview. you're going to hear this probably many times. the evidence will show that dot, dot, dot. the evidence will show that dot, dot, dot. it's really just a promise to the jurors of what the facts will show, and if you are the defense, you do not want to be making a lot of promises.

for example, you will not hear the words, you're going to hear from the defendant himself because if you make that promise, nobody's going to forget it. so they will say, i expect -- the prosecution will try to focus on something they've seated the jury on, which is you're going to hear from people who are not that credible, but they're not credible because they're donald trump's friends. on the defense side, you'll probably hear some version of, try to keep an open mind. the evidence is not all in. we don't have the burden, and just sort of the standard fare, but you're not going to see anything as flashy, anything as dramatic, as exciting as we're going to see during closing arguments. this is only going to be a preview, and it will not take the entire day at all. >> you know -- >> interesting. >> -- as danny said in mob cases, there are jurors that will tell a judge they're afraid for their safety and they want to get off. he said, this isn't exactly like that, but really it is in many

cases in that a lot of jurors are fearful of repercussions if they're in on a jury that's empanelled -- >> absolutely. >> -- that rules against donald trump because they want the names out. the judge trying to keep the names from getting out there, but this is -- over time, this has proven to be very, very dangerous and tough. >> well, in this trial, everybody's under duress, you know, donald trump's past statements before the gag order -- even with the gag order about the judge, about the judge's daughter, with the jury. everybody is under a great deal of stress and concerned about their safety. >> yeah. >> and i would add that it's donald trump. no matter which way this goes, that you have to keep your eye on, because donald trump right now is enduring something that he's never had to endure in his entire life where he has to be somewhere every day and do what he's told. when he's told to sit down by the judge, he has to sit down.

that happened on friday at least once. when he tries to get on his phone, he's told to get off of his phone. he has to be there watching his former friends, david pecker, hope hicks, and two alleged former lovers testifying for or against him. this is not what he's used to. >> this is a guy as we look at pictures of donald trump here. this is a guy, jon meacham, that has spent his entire life creating this warped reality that goes wherever his mind wants it to go, and keeping people around him that allows him to avoid reality, keeping people around him that does exactly what he wants to do. he was so proud of having a button on his white house desk. he goes, i press this button, and somebody brings in diet coke. he loved the complete control and command, and he has his entire life, and now he's

sitting down six, seven, eight hours a day, and -- >> at 78 years old. >> 78 years old, judge telling him what to do, falling asleep, being mocked, getting angry about that. yeah. it's -- this is quite -- quite a situation. >> new territory. >> it's new territory for donald trump. >> and arguably no american in history has so warped everyone else's reality as well, right? i mean, it's not simply his imaginative universe. he's imposed his imaginative universe, his grievances, his vision of enemies versus himself on everyone, and we're living in this -- this warped reality, and so one thing about the last couple of weeks and about these images that i think maybe this isn't a particularly popular

thing to say, but this is actually a somewhat reassuring set of images because it suggests that there is something more important than one single man, and the will of one single man, and that is the rule of law, and he is submitting himself to the legal processes of the country, and it should remind people not of somehow his victim hood, but of that great thomas payne inside, that we don't have a kink, and in america, the law is that. and that however tawdry the narrative is, is facts of the case, that doesn't matter. >> right. >> what matters is that the law itself is supreme. it's not just about the appetites and ambitions of one person. >> and lisa, there's more

coming. in other courtrooms pertaining to donald trump happening today, a hearing in former president trump's civil fraud case. remember that? on friday, new york attorney general letitia james asked them to void a bond. james is asking the company that issued the $175 million bond, if they have the funds to back it up. lisa, what is she doing here, and is it possible the bond could be voided? and if it is voided, what happens? >> if it's voided, what happens? the current bond would stay in place until donald trump posts new security either by posting $175 million and putting it in escrow with the court himself or finding another bond company. one of the things that tisch james has said here is that donald trump's folks have hid the ball, that they did have an offer from don hinky who is the

insurer here to cover all the bond, the $454 million, plus that they never told the court that. instead what we told the court was, we had 30 different bond companies we went out to, and none of them would cover the entirety of it. so let's start with today what judge angoran has to decide, is that sufficient? the a.g. is saying no, it's not for a few reasons. one, this isn't a company that's licensed to do business in the state of new york. two, they've never issued a surety bond in new york and they haven't even issued a surety bond anywhere for the last two years, and three, and perhaps most importantly, when you look at the financials of this company, the difference between their assets and their liabilities isn't enough to cover the bond, and that coupled with the fact that they don't have control right now of the $175 million, but rather would have to let charles schwab, which holds the account that's

collateral, know that they want to exert control and then it would take at least two-plus days to do that. that has the attorney general concerned that essentially trump could run off and abscond with this money and nobody has enough to cover the bond, and they would be left holding the bag. i'm very much interested in what happens at that hearing today even as i'll be in the courthouse watching opening statements. >> wow. msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. we'll be following your coverage, and legal analyst, danny cevallos. coming up, we'll go live to capitol hill on that critical vote to congress to provide american allies with foreign aid. that plus the new legislation that could lead to a ban of tiktok in the united states. we'll have the very latest when "morning joe" returns in just 60 seconds. "morning joe" just 60 seconds.

well, president zelenskyy,

it is an historic morning. i want to get your reaction to this major news. the house approving $61 billion in aid to ukraine. will you get this aid in time to make a difference? [ speaking in a global language ] >> translator: it's been so important. i want to say thanks to the congress for the bipartisan support, and i want to say thanks to speaker johnson and president biden. >> can ukraine now win this war or is the united states merely giving you enough aid to prolong this war? >> translator: thank you. i think this support will really strengthen the armed forces of ukraine, and we will have a chance for victory if ukraine really gets the weapons system

which we need so much. >> ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy on "meet the press" yesterday reacting to the house overwhelmingly voting in favor of new funding for ukraine as well as israel and taiwan. the senate is expected to pass the legislation as early as tomorrow and send it to the president's desk to sign. really incredible moment, and i have to say, i wasn't sure mike johnson had it, but he does. >> he certainly does. i mean, mike allen and jim vnde hei wrote this yesterday. he dug deep into intelligence and shifted his position on the most vital foreign policy in years. why it matters? it's hard to overstate the importance of johnson's road to kyiv political conversion. he not only shifted his own position on funding and arming ukraine, but to fight a majority of his party to do it.

let's bring in associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. david, if you will, give us your thoughts on what we saw this weekend. >> so, joe, i thought it was a tremendously emotional affirmation of the ability of the united states despite all of our political divisions and difficulties to get to the right -- the right thing, to have a speaker despite considerable personal danger to him and his speakership, to decide that he was going to stand for what was best for the country, not for himself. i think back last month to when i was sitting with president zelenskyy in kyiv talking about what he would do if u.s. aid didn't come soon, and he took out a piece of paper and just kind of drew blinds that symbolize the ukrainian front and he said, without enough ammunition to match the russians, we're going to have to

retreat. we'll have to full back. you could see in his eyes what it meant that this brave struggle was beginning to collapse at the front. so to get that aid finally, to have people stand up and be counted, starting with mike johnson, really means a lot, and i'll mention one other thing. i was at a social event yesterday with the ukrainian ambassador, with a lot of the generals in the u.s. military who are most responsible for this war. at a certain point, a performer who was performing for the group sang "amazing grace" beautifully stretching out every word, and i don't think there was a dry eye in that room listening to this "amazing grace" that the american political system had delivered, had discovered to pass this aid. so it's a big deal. the key question obviously is how soon can the aid get to the ukrainian forces? they're getting pounded right now by the russians. the russians are on the advance. they need this aid as soon as

they can get it. coming up, all classes at columbia university will be virtual today amid heated protests over the israel/hamas war. this as president biden denounces anti-semitism on college campuses across the country. "morning joe" is back in a moment. country. "morning joe" is back in a moment if you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect. new parodontax active gum repair breath freshener. clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a new toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts.

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♪♪ new nbc news polling finds robert f. kennedy jr. taking more votes from donald trump than joe biden in this year's election. in a one-on-one matchup, the poll shows trump ahead of biden by two points, 46% to 44%. that's within the poll's margin of error, but when the field expands to include third-party candidates, biden takes the lead over trump 39% to 37%.

that's because 15% of voters who previously said they would support trump now say they would back rfk jr. compared to just 7% of former biden voters who say the same. >> you never know how this is going to break. in 1980, john anderson -- >> i kind of get the thinking. >> john anderson ran -- well, yeah. they're conspiracy theorists. >> exactly. >> john anderson ran as a republican against ronald reagan and jimmy carter, he ended up taking votes away from jimmy carter when his intent was to take votes away from ronald reagan, and so we're seeing the same thing happen. >> president joe biden's odds of winning re-election are the highest they have been in at least three months. on the website, predict yit, it now costs 54 cents to bet on a biden victory and 45 cents to bet on a trump victory.

biden's odds have been steady increasing after the past month after trump saw it reached a high of 48 cents in early march. we should note though that this tracker only goes as far back as late january. >> let's bring in former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner. i saw this yesterday and you actually show where the betting markets are because sometimes they can be more accurate than even polls, but i thought about you yesterday because joe biden has made quite a move over the last month or so. >> yeah. i think there's no question by almost any measure that joe biden has made moves in the coming months. the betting markets, those of us who believe in markets, of course, believe when you put real money down, even if it is a dollar, you're putting some skin in the game, and they have historically been very accurate. they have had their misses and

for various reasons i won't bore you with, they have been a little bit less accurate than in the past, but nonetheless, this is a betting market, and they have been roughly 50/50 for a long time. you're seeing green chutes for president biden with all these numbers. >> i want to go to jon meacham. jon, you never now how things are going to break. i talked about john anderson, 1980, a republican fellow. a republican who believed he was going to draw from ronald reagan. he ended up getting a lot of liberals and a lot of college students voting for him. he got his 5%, but that came from jimmy carter, most of it, and of course, speaking of rfk, we go back to 1968, something you and i have talked about a good bit, the kennedy trying to figure out how after bobby's

tragic assassination, how many of his votes went to george wallace. you never know how this is going to break, but it certainly looks like win anti-vaxxer is going to be, you know, and conspiracy theorist i guess i should say is going to be taking volts from another conspiracy theorist. >> that's certainly where common sense barstool analysis would lead you, right? i mean, if you are a -- if you are thinking about voting for an anti-vax person, i don't think your second choice is going to be the democratic incumbent who believes in science and is a politician who's arguing for a consistency with a constitutional and rational order. that doesn't seem like exactly where you would go. historically, look. you're right. wallace in '68, john anderson there 1980, of course, ross

perot in 1992 who got 19%, still a huge debate within bush world. both the senior president bush believed that perot cost him the election, and when you dived into the data, it gets tricky, but when you have an alternative to the dualopoly, you have a very chancy place particularly because -- and this is why every single votes. particularly when you are talking about such deminimous margins, and this is a swing state, you know, 500 votes here, and 500 votes there, and to par phrase, you're talking about, that adds up to the presidency of the united states, and so i think everybody has to have -- if i may -- a mike johnson moment. a liz cheney moment.

they have to decide this year -- >> right. >> -- where do you want history to judge you? how do you want history to judge you? and i think that this is that important. i really do. coming up, we'll go live to the new york courthouse where opening statements are set to kick off this morning in donald trump's criminal hush money trial. a full preview of what to expect today when "morning joe" comes right back. o expect today when "morning joe" comes right back

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coming up, a new exhibit in new york city recreates the israeli music festival that was attacked by terrorists on october 7th. we'll get a special look inside when "morning joe" comes right back. ial look inside when "morning joe" comes right back

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welcome back at 46 past the hour. a beautiful shot of new york city where a new exhibition is now open in downtown manhattan that recreates the nova music festival in israel on october 7th, and the moments before during, and after the hamas attack. over 360 concert goers were killed that day and dozens were taken hostage. chloe melas is with us. tell us about this emotional exhibit. >> reporter: good morning, mika. the nova exhibit opened yesterday, and this sprawling 50,000-square-foot space is being spearheaded by scooter braun. braun and some of the survivors who i spoke with say this installation is not about religion or politics, but a moment to raise awareness about

the attack at the music festival, to remember the lives lost and hostages that were taken, a warning some images and details may be disturbing. >> everywhere you turn your head to, you see the smiles. you see happy people. >> reporter: reflections of smiling faces dancing. people living their best lives. >> i was really, really excited for it. it was amazing. >> reporter: the moment music stood still is an exhibit that recreates those moments in vivid detail from the dirt on the ground, to festival music echoing through this 50,000-square-foot space in lower manhattan. >> people come up to you out of nowhere and start talking to you like you're family. that was very special to me. >> reporter: a fun-loving event that took a terrifying turn when the festival was targeted by hamas militants in a surprise attack in october. the festival producer was shot in the leg while trying to escape. >> while they shot at us, i was talking to my wife on the phone, and my wife was nine months

pregnant at home at that day. if i pass out, i cannot answer my wife. i cannot talk to her. >> i took out my phone and i called my ex-fiance, and i said to him, we're getting attacked. we're getting attacked. >> reporter: this 26-year-old citizen took refuge in a bomb shelter whose uncle was killed in the attack. >> he took impact of the grenade right in front of me, and then they started shooting again, and for eight hours, i hid under the bodies, and i put the jacket over my face and i covered my ears because my ears were ringing. it was hard. >> reporter: 26-year-old danielle said she hid from the gunman in an orange grove. >> i had this scarf on me which i got before the festival because i thought the color is cute and i saw, orange trees in the same color.

so i thought maybe the scarf as a camouflage. >> this is the biggest massacre in music history. >> reporter: record executive scooter braun helped bring the exhibit to the u.s. >> when americans come to this exhibit, what are you hoping that they take away? >> um, look. these are actual cars that terrorists destroyed. this could have been anywhere, and i think it's important that we see ourselves in others so we can have some humanity for them. >> reporter: organizers shipped salvaged items from israel including lost and unclaimed personal effects. >> this is really tough for me. growing up in a holocaust family, there's a lot of images of just piles of shoes. that should not happen. >> while the exhibit focuses only on what happened at the music festival, organizers acknowledge the human toll

affecting both sides of the conflict. >> you can come and see this exhibit and be here for these music lovers and call out for the hostages and still have the empathy in your heart to call out for innocent people in gaza to be protected. >> what do you plan to do with your lives now? >> we are the voice of our friends and victims that cannot tell the story and to show the world this happened, this happened to us. it's one language for everybody. we will dance again. >> organizers say that the possibility of drawing anti-israel demonstrators forced them to keep their exact location a secret until tickets went on sale sunday. while there is police presence outside the venue, they maintain this is a precautionary measure and no threats to public safety have been made. >> thank you very much for that really powerful report.

>> you know, it was the worst massacre in the history of music festivals. it was also the worst massacre of jews since the holocaust. and somehow nobody wants to talk about this anymore. nobody wants to talk about october 7th. two truths could be held at the same time. >> that's what i loved about what the producer said. >> we can look at the people of gaza and feel for them and hope that we move towards peace there. i would say this is israel's pearl harbor. >> yeah. >> actually, if you look at the numbers, it's far worse. far worse than our 9/11, far

worse than our pearl harbor if you look at the numbers proportionately. the response you get when you talk about october 7th, don't talk about that. again, forgetting the reason why hamas started this war, forgetting that they had planned to systemically rape and abuse israeli women, of course, enemies of israel, enemies of jews don't want you to talk about october 7th. they don't want to talk about what you told you on october 8th or the 9th in days after this that hamas did this purposely to kill, torture and rape jews, but also to draw a response from israel where they could use palestinians as human shields.

while israel was doing what any other country on the planet would do, and that is to seek out and search for the terrorists who shot their infants in their cribs, who rapes their daughters, savaged their wives, killed their parents in front of them, shot their children in front of them. somehow we're told by extremists who are protesting across the country, october 7th, don't talk about it. it has nothing to do with what's going on now. no. it has everything to do with what's going on now. pearl harbor forced us to move against the japanese, forced us to do a lot of things that caused a lot of suffering. talk about hiroshima and nagasaki.

we could also talk about the firebombing of tokyo that killed more people than nuclear weapons. we have to hold two truths at the same time. one is that this was the worst slaughter of jews since the holocaust, and they have to find the terrorists that raped their women, that killed their babies, that burned their grandmothers. the other truth is, we have to look at the suffering in gaza and that the united states of america use our power, our strength and our arab allies in the region to bring peace to the area, to bring a two-state solution, to bring constant warfare since 1948.

>> we're going to take a quick break. when we come back, we're going to talk to our guests about how all of this fits into passover, which starts tonight. s fits int which starts tonight to be scar. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy long lasting relief in a scent free, gentle mist. flonase all good. also, try our allergy headache and nighttime pills.

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we are moments away from opening arguments that are set to begin in former president trump's criminal hush money trial. vaughn hillyard is standing by. we are told that trump left trump tower a few minutes ago, and he is inside the courthouse now. they're going to get ready to go on time today. the thought is there will be opening statements and possibly even the first witness. first, columbia university is holding classes virtually today following demonstrations over the war in gaza on campus. nbc news correspondent eric mclaughlin brings us the latest. >> reporter: this morning, demonstrations continue on

university campuses. new york's columbia university announcing all classes will be held virtually today, the university president issuing a statement saying we need a reset to de-escalate the rancor. the university announcing it is adding more security on campus. the news comes as a rabbi at columbia is urging students to return home as soon as possible. in a letter to jewish students this weekend saying, no one should have to endure this level of hatred, let alone at school. new york mayor eric adams condemning videos such as this, which he says shows a young woman with a sign stating the

next target. the president of columbia saying these tensions have been exploited. >> as a jew, i no longer feel welcome or safe on campus. i no longer feel like i belong. >> to be honest, no, i think my safety has been compromised in a lot of ways over the past few days. >> students expressed frustration over inflammatory individuals who do not represent us, adding that the group rejects any form of hate or bigotry. the white house saying calls for violence and physical intimidation targeting jewish students have absolutely no place on any college campus or anywhere in the united states of america. >> let's bring in lauren leader, elise jordan and reverend al

sharpton. good to have you all on board. >> rabbi, the start of passover is upon us. yet, what we just heard about what's going on at columbia and other college campuses across the country is a heavy cloud hanging over not just jewish students at columbia, but jewish students everywhere. i hear it firsthand. it's not just columbia. it's at colleges, especially so-called elite colleges across the country. >> yes, joe. i would say those of us who have students in college, our students are on the front lines these days. my friends in israel say they are as much on the front lines as folks are over there.

passover is the jewish spring holiday of redemption. we tell the story of god hearing the calls of our ancestors calling out in misery over 400 years, tapping moses and miriam for the process of redemption. finally, of course, the issue is pushed. the israelites are allowed to escape. they come to the most famous scene in the bible, the sea of reeds. the process of redemption has begun. this year is probably the toughest time i've ever had in my life trying to mark this celebration. reading the passover story is

all too real. after all, we have 130 hostages in torture and slavery in gaza by modern day pharaohs called hamas, that rapes and pillages and kills. a modern-day pharaoh in iran who send 300 projectiles. if just one ballistic missile hit, it would kill thousands of israelis at once. imagine what it's like to face the modern-day pharaoh of anti-semitism. i grew up on a very different upper west side. i went to the columbia campus to find safety. now, can you imagine having to go remote classes, rabbis telling kids to go home because

they don't think the police department or security can protect them? this is a very different passover. it's an act of sacred defiance to mark it this year. >> removed from these that are doing this anti-semitism and hatred, from thosely saying theo see a two-state solution, they want to see humanitarian aid to gaza, they don't want to see people killed on either side. that's what people like mayor adams is trying to deal with. i disagree with netanyahu. yet, i'm outraged by what happened on october 7th. it's been hijacked by some that just want to make this about hate and violence. i think some of those

students -- and i'm glad to see some standing up saying this is not what we're about. we question netanyahu. we're not anti-semitic. i've had to receiver ties with people that would make things about being anti-white rather than pro-right. that doesn't take away from your stand. it makes your stand strong on moral grounds. we should not confuse these haters with the cause. but those with the cause need to be loud and clear that that is not what we're about. >> we live in a world of false binaries these days, either oppressor or oppressed. none of this is all moses or all pharaoh. we actually have a bit of each of them in each of us. we have to look in the mirror

and say you can be against policy of a democratic government and still be utterly pro-israel. >> the problem is that on too many college campuses, there's not the talk of a two-state solution. there's the talk of wiping israel off the map. there are constant chants of "from the river to the sea." there's constant agitation against jewish students. there's even agitation against gentile students who have jewish friends and the cancellation of jewish students, the cancellation of gentile students who dare to be friends with jews. i'm sorry, we can't sanitize what's going on on college

campuses, because i know firsthand and other people that know young kids, children in schools know firsthand what is going on here. if they were only calling for a two-state solution, if they were only calling far cease-fire followed by peace, if they were only calling for that, that would be one thing. lauren, that's not what's being chanted most of the time. that's not the intent. it is hatred for jews. it is hatred for the state of israel. >> it pains me. barnard is my alma mater.

it's extremely troubling. i can't get my head around whether or not it's ignorance to think it's not anti-semitic to be chanting "from the river to the sea." to be wearing watermelon t-shirts. the watermelon symbol is about from the river to the sea, it's about eliminating the state of israel. even the signs you see in these pictures, it may not be physical violence, but the threat of what this means to jewish students who support the state of israel regardless of how they feel about netanyahu. i think most american jews understand how complicated this administration is there. they are deeply distressed at what netanyahu has brought over

the years. but this is a totally different ball game. the whole bdf movement, what are the students demanding? they are demanding the d divestture and boycott of israel. imagine if the trump administration said we're going to boycott every american company because they supported president trump. the lines being drawn on college campuses as they chant "we don't want no zionists here." who are the zionist? a zionist is someone who believes the state of israel has a right to exist. protest is allowed, but these are private institutions. by the way, it is not

everywhere. on duke's campus, we're not seeing this. at wellesley where my daughter goes, the president has been extremely clear. this is a private institution. we are going to maintain peace and allow our students to study. that columbia hasn't done that is really a stain on them. >> you see what's going on at dartmouth. they've been doing it right. they've continued to have dialogue in a way that's been positive. the claims are just outrageous. they're talking about genocide. they're talking about wiping israel off the map. i know we got to go, but whenever i hear about this attack of jews in israel being like white colonists from europe, hold on a second, it was white people in europe that killed 6 million jews, that

burned 6 million jews to death in the oven. that's what white european colonists did. that's why there's a state of israel, because jews were wiped out across europe by these, quote, white colonists. >> you're absolutely right. one of the reasons i was saying what i said to the rabbi is the distortion of movements being hijacked. let's not forget dr. martin luther king, jr. dr. king went to memphis to lead a march for garbage workers. in the march, some people got at the end of the march and started yelling anti-white things and riots, which is the reason he came back to memphis to prove he could lead a non-violent march. that's how he got killed.

extremists set the scene that let to the killing of martin luther king. they are the ones that are helping the people that are islamophobic and anti-semitic. we must resist that. >> lauren leader, thank you for coming on. rabbi, thank you so much for coming on this morning. we have a lot to get to this hour. we're moments away from the opening statements in former president trump's criminal hush money trial. a source with direct knowledge of the situation tells nbc news that david pecker will then be the first witness called for the prosecution. he's the former ceo of american media incorporated, who bought

and buried damaging stories about donald trump. vaughn hillyard is live outside the courthouse in lower manhattan. set the scene for us and explain how david pecker's potential testimony could help prove a crime was committed. >> reporter: good morning, guys. we're looking at 2 p.m. trial ending here today for passover. so about 4 1/2 hours of court. in those 4 1/2 hours we're anticipating opening statements for the district attorney's side as well as donald trump's defense team. we expect each side to have about an hour for their opening statements. at that point is when we will see our first witness, david pecker, the long time former publisher of the national enquirer. the district attorney's office is prepared to bring before the jury testimony and evidence that they believe shows that david pecker back in august of 2015, in a meeting at trump tower with

donald trump and michael cohen, they arranged the catch-and-kill scheme that led to karen macdougall to be paid $150,000 to not bring her story to the election. but also david pecker was the one who ordered his team to contact michael cohen about the stormy daniels' story and the fact that stormy daniels a month before the 2016 election was prepared to go to the national public and have her story printed in the national enquirer. that is when michael cohen arranged $130,000 to stormy daniels to keep her quiet. david pecker could be a very crucial witness, and he will be the first one out of the gate to set up 2015 all the way into 2017. the district attorney's office is prepared to bring evidence

that david pecker even went to the white house for donald trump to give thanks for his help in the 2016 campaign. today could be big. it may not be the only day of testimony from david pecker. he could very well go into tuesday or even thursday and friday, guys. >> interesting. are they in the courtroom right now? obviously last week was a tough week for the former president. he was frustrated at times, sleepy at times during these really long days during the jury selection process. any sense of his demeanor today? >> reporter: no. we're waiting to see our first glimpse of him heading into the courtroom. court will begin here promptly at 9:30 a.m. eastern time. on his motorcade drive to lower manhattan from trump tower, he posted multiple times on social media in all-caps election interference, all-caps witch hunt. he talked about why it was not

wrong to denote the expenses that he reimbursed michael cohen for in 2016 as legal expenses. there are a lot of questions that still surround donald trump when it comes to this here. this is a man who at one point denied knowing he had this arrangement with michael cohen and stormy daniels. we're looking at a trial lasting from five to seven weeks. today's openings statements and the question for donald trump is not only will he testify, but what will david pecker provide testimony on. david pecker has never talked publicly about this case or about what he knows and what evidence he may have already provided to the district attorney's office. that could all come out here in a matter of hours. >> nbc's vaughn hillyard, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. the other big story we're covering this hour, after months

of republican infighting house lawmakers have passed foreign aid funding for ukraine, israel and taiwan. capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles has the very latest. >> reporter: what once seemed improbable -- >> on this vote the yays are 311 and the nays are 112. the bill has passed. >> reporter: senators are poised to approve a $95 billion national security package that provides funding for key allies. 8.1 billion for taiwan. it authorized the seizing of $5 billion in russian assets, tougher sanctions on the country and the ban of the popular app tiktok if the chinese-based company that owns it does not sell it within a year. but the biggest part of the package, more than $60 billion in funding for ukraine was the

most controversial and carried the most immediate consequences. ukraine's president volodymyr zelenskyy telling kristen welker without this funding his country would likely lose the war. >> we will have a chance for victory if ukraine really gets the weapons we need so much. >> reporter: it is a plea zelenskyy has been making for months while the legislation was stalled. it did not matter much to conservative republicans who argued american border security should come before aid to ukraine. >> mike johnson has betrayed america. >> reporter: conservatives have warned house speaker mike johnson that even bringing a ukraine aid bill to the floor could result in an effort to boot him from his speakership. johnson, who once voted against funding for ukraine, was presented with overwhelming evidence in classified briefings that led to a change of heart.

one that could cost him his job, a threat he has come to terms with. >> you do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may. >> that's the right answer. nbc's ryan nobles reporting there. just one quick correction. marjorie taylor greene had said that he betrayed conservative voters. by conservative voters, she means conservative voters in moscow, conservative voters who support vladimir putin, conservative voters who hate freedom in ukraine, who hate freedom across the west, who hate freedom in places that american has guaranteed freedom since 1945. we don't like fascism. we americans don't like fascism. we don't like communism. and we don't like former

communists who believe -- and i guess marjorie taylor greene must believe it too -- that one of the great tragedies of the 20th century was the collapse of the soviet union, because vladimir putin is trying to rebuild the soviet union and there are a lot of republican back-benchers that are on his side in that battle. >> joining us sawhill kapur. will democrats come to mike johnson's rescue, if necessary? >> reporter: first, i want to note this vote only happened because democrats provided crucial votes in the rules committee to move it forward and provides more votes than the majority party on the floor of the house to trigger this package. that is unheard of in modern times and sure sounds to me like

we have a coalition government in the house. the $60 billion for ukraine is the biggest piece of the bill. that was the reason this got held up for all that time. it was $26 billion in aid for israel with part of that going to humanitarian relief for gaza. $8 billion in security for taiwan and the indo-pacific. and a tiktok provision that would request the company be divested from chinese ownership bytedance or face a ban. that won't happen until 2025 at the earliest, which means it will remain a force in the 2024 election. this bill goes to the senate from here, where they will start voting tomorrow afternoon when they return from passover. they're hoping to wrap this up in the next day or two. the senate passed a system $95 billion package just a few months ago with 70 vote.

the support clearly seems to be there. now there's the other question of what happens to speaker johnson. marjorie taylor greene had threatened his job weeks ago and she has repeatedly described ukraine aid as a red line for her. notably on saturday i spoke to her on the steps of the capitol and asked her why hasn't she filed that motion to vacate. she was a little bit evasive in her response. let's play what she said. >> based on what you said, are you waiting to see if there will be more support in your conference before calling for your motion to vacate. >> support is growing. i said from the beginning i'm going to be responsible with this. i support the majority. i do not support mike johnson. he's already a lame duck. if we had the vote today in our conference, he would not be speaker today. >> reporter: she called him a lame duck multiple times. she did suggest if she called the vote, he would lose, without

showing her work. her republican colleagues think she's bluffing in part but that would not be the end of the situation for mike johnson if he would do that. joining us now, editor at the non-partisan group protect democracy amanda carpenter. where does this go for trump republicans who are trying very hard to hold onto their place with donald trump and people like mike johnson, who seems to have broken away. he was just at mar-a-lago a few weeks ago, and yet he found his own voice. could we see more of this? >> we're going to have to see how this plays out, but there's

certainly something in congress between donald trump's apparent appeasement of russia and mike johnson passing this aid bill. we talk a lot about 2024 wedge issues. let's play up these moments of unity. why shouldn't joe biden give a major foreign policy speech to an audience of ukrainian americans and russians, maybe in pennsylvania or ohio, talking about what this aid will do not only to protect democracy in ukraine but to help america here at home. i think some of the things that get lost and why donald trump is so effective in making this message to a minority of republicans about why we shouldn't have this aid is because they can't see what good it does here at home. but if we could look at our fellow americans who have family members in this country, i think that would be a necessary moment

so we can talk about why we need to be a light for the world and help other democracies and stand with them in these fights. >> i think it would be fantastic if president biden gave a big foreign policy address and really laid out his strategy and how he sees the grand strategy of america vis-a-vis all these different conflicts we're involved in right now. your work is really focused on donald trump and pardons in the trials. can you talk about what you've learned about donald trump promising pardons in advance to january 6th protesters? >> sure. it leads to his promises to give january 6th rioters pardons has been picked up. people largely understand why that's bad, but what isn't recognized are larger thoughts he's expressed about the pardon power and he thinks he has

absolute power if reelected to do essentially whatever he wants with it. why would he think otherwise? he engaged in pardon abuse in his first term with paul manafort and mike flynn and other military contractors convicted of heinous crimes. so you want to cure that forward as he's under trial right now. what would he do with it? he thinks he has the power to self-pardon. that would potentially put america in a very dangerous position. in preparing for the possibility of a trump second term, we really have to examine that issue and push back on the idea that there is unfettered presidential power, because there is not. the pardon power like any other power outlined in the constitution is constrained by other elements in the

constitution. you can't license law breaking, whether that's egging on rioters to the capitol or ordering seal team six to eliminate your political enemies. in just a few moments, the opening statements at donald trump's criminal hush money trial are set to begin. we'll go back to the courthouse to see what's happening there. also, the biggest name in women's basketball has a new shoe deal. we'll tell you how much the wnba's number one pick is expected to earn. it's a good number. plus, taylor swift continues to make history. how the mega star's latest album is off to a blockbuster start. we'll break it down with andrew ross sorkin after the break. andw ross sorkin after the break.

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33 past the hour. that's the hallway into the courtroom in manhattan, where the opening arguments for donald trump's criminal hush money trial are set to begin any moment now. donald trump just came through the hall and did his regular rant that he does every day and walked in. he is in the courtroom now. the proceedings are beginning as we speak. we'll keep you posted on that. moving on, it is a pivotal week for elon musk and tesla ahead of the company's earnings announcement tomorrow. it has been a brutal week for him after cutting prices on his cyber truck. andrew ross sorkin has more. >> this is going to be the big

week. elon musk has a conference call with investors tomorrow afternoon after lowering prices over the weekend on virtually all the models there, the stock down nearly 40%. an interesting article worth reading in the "wall street journal" this morning about the prospect that one of the reasons tesla is struggling is democrats have stopped buying teslas because of their frustration with some of the commentary they've seen from elon musk. it had been that republicans in red states weren't buying evs. the big thing that everybody's watching is an expectation that he's going to announce a plan for tesla to become robotaxis. for that to happen, it would mean they would reach what's called level five automation, meaning no human intervention.

thus far, that has not been the case. we've seen what their self-driving vehicles have been able to do. some of it is impressive, but it's not in a position yet for humans not to have their hands on the wheel. >> no. don't like it at all. andrew, a couple big numbers floating around for women in basketball and in music. let's start with taylor swift. the numbers are staggering for her "tortured poets" album. the first day, 243 streams, 1.4 million hard copies sold of "the tortured poets department." frank sinatra used to say the difference between him and other singers, dean martin will sing for 55 minutes.

he says, i go out and i sing for 31 minutes and i always leave them wanting more. taylor swift doesn't follow the chairman of the board's advice. she says, here's my album and here's 18 more songs. she has been producing album after album. the content over the past five years, staggering. her fans just can't get enough. >> they love it. you mentioned the 240 million streaming number. now there are new estimates this morning that say on day one it could have been over 300 million streams. for those of you playing at home trying to map out the money on what this means, typically you get somewhere between 3 and 5 cents for every ten streams. if we took that number you'd be looking at about $1.5 million a day in terms of the check

spotify would be writing her. that's just one piece of the puzzle. that's not, of course, what she's doing on tour or anything to do with the number of albums she's selling. it doesn't matter what anyone says. america loves her. the world increasingly loves her. you're seeing it in those numbers. >> it is extraordinary. >> her artistry and her output are incredible. >> there's more. >> go ahead. >> caitlin clark. >> goodness. this is a big story for a different reason. she has a deal that it appears they're close to announcing a transaction with nike where she will be getting her own shoe and a paycheck of $30 million for that sponsorship. i think it's important that we talk about this. last week, the public learned

what she was going to be getting as a rookie in the wnba. if you recall that price tag, the salary that she was getting in the wnba was only $78,000. even president biden weighed in on what seemed like a paltry sum if you were the best player in the league coming in as a rookie. how could it be possible that somebody of this talent was going to get paid $78,000 in the wnba? i think a lot of people now are saying, okay, once you start adding up the sponsorship numbers it starts to look a lot better. having said that, it is nowhere near what folks like lebron james and some of the men have made in the nba. there's still a big divide between what wnba players are getting paid and nba players are paid. there's also a big divide in terms of the economics of the

wnba versus the nba. the wnba makes about $2 billion in revenue as compared to about $10 billion in revenue with the nba. i talked to grant hill. we were saying it feels like the wnba is at an inflection point. all of this may very well turn on the back of the wonders of her talent. >> when you look at the college finals, women outrated men for the first time ever. >> it was great basketball. >> at the end of the day, viewership equals money. that should mean more money for more women in the wnba. >> absolutely. beyond caitlin clark. andrew ross sorkin, great to see you. thank you very much. we're going to get another live report from lower manhattan as donald trump is now inside the courtroom ahead of opening statements set to begin at any moment now.

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why wouldn't joe biden caring about the voters saying, you know what, this is wrong? if i have nothing to do with this, they should not have this trial right now, so the american people can spend time on what the issues are. that would be the real position for biden to take. >> you're saying you do want president biden to meddle with the justice system, just in favor of donald trump? >> no. i want his opinion to be fair. >> what is kevin mccarthy doing? >> he's trying to get in good with republicans again? >> it's over. you're free. >> you don't have to kiss up to donald trump. you can tell the truth. >> you can be you, you know? >> you know the truth, kevin. he wants joe biden to meddle -- >> intervene.

>> he wants him to intervene and meddle in the trial? >> i think the narrative on the network is this is biden's doing. anyhow, former speaker kevin mccarthy. let's bring in nbc news correspondent yasmin vossoughian live outside the courthouse in manhattan. also with us is chuck rosenberg and dave aronberg. amanda carpenter is back with us. tell us what's happening inside the courtroom. >> reporter: this is exactly what we predicted would happen. juror number nine came in, had some concerns about media attention with the trial. it's something we predicted could happen after two days of thinking about the gravity of this case, the nature of the

case, the attention surrounding the case as well. they went into the judge's chambers, both the prosecution and the defense, to have a private conversation with juror number nine as the former president of the united states sat at the defense table all by himself because he said he didn't want to be involved in any of the side-bar conversations. as they emerged from the judge's chambers, it seems as if juror number nine is remaining inside this jury pool. it's five women, seven men with six alternates. one other thing i want to add, it seems as if the trial will go into recess at 12:30 this afternoon because a juror has a dental emergency they have to attend to. opening statements, 40 minutes from the prosecution, 25 minutes from the defense. this is shorter than we expected. we thought it was going to be

about 60 minutes each. there's going to be a lot of dates, a lot of details, a lot of storytelling in both of these opening statements. hence the reason why they don't want to overwhelm the jurors with these opening statements. we don't know who's going to deliver the openings statements from the prosecution's side as of yesterday. it's going to be the leadup to the november election, the desperation of the former president in those final moments when the "access hollywood" tape came out. they will not be able to play the "access hollywood" tape but they can admit the transcript as evidence. they will show how stormy daniels was going to go public with the story about having sex with the former president in 2006. they're going to talk about the

payment of $130,000 made to stormy daniels and the $150,000 paid to karen macdougall. then they'll move to the defense and talk about michael cohen and stormy daniels and how they had an ax to grind. they'll say this was legal fees. this was an attorney that worked for donald trump for a very long time and donald trump didn't know what michael cohen was doing with stormy daniels and karen macdougall in arranging these payments. and then onto that first witness we are learning is david pecker, who sat above ami for almost two decades and helped arrange those payments to karen macdougall. they'll talk about the white house meeting in 2017 when david pecker visited donald trump as he was the president of the united states. it is going to be a jam-packed

day but a short day, as court will recess at 12:30 this afternoon. >> chuck rosenberg, the conference in the judge's chamber around juror number nine, isn't that something that all of us have to really be concerned about? can they keep this jury together even though nine is still seated there? there's always this overwhelming cloud of whether you can keep this jury together through this trial. >> i think so. that's specifically why you have six alternates. the trial shouldn't take months. it should take a few weeks. there may be some attrition. maybe someone gets sick or maybe someone is juror nine, someone is unnerved and asks to leave, but you have six alternates. that's specifically why you do that. once the trial starts, you can't add jurors. so you don't have 19 jurors or 23 jurors.

you have 18, but that should be enough. that should give you the margin, the buffer your need so when the case is submitted to the jury for deliberation and verdict, you'll have 12. >> dave, elise jordan here. as a prosecutor, what are you looking for today in the first day of this trial? >> it is a cool trait of our legal system that you have ordinary people gathered around to make hugely controversial decisions. molars and buy cuss pids are stril the great equalizers. what i'm looking for is david pecker, the first witness who is going to set the stage for the prosecution's entire trial. the defense is going to put michael cohen on trial, trying to distract from donald trump's activities and say, are you really going to believe this liar? one way to undermine the defense's efforts is for the prosecution to start with a

corroborating witness in david pecker. he can also put things into context. it's not just a one-off with stormy daniels. it's the fact that this was a scheme that involved others. karen mcdougal is expected to testify, and the doorman they'll be hearing about who apparently had some information about donald trump that was false, but they paid him off, too. this is going to make it harder for donald trump to say, i know nothing, the whole sergeant schultz defense. you're part of the scheme. there's even a recording that michael cohen took secretly that shows trump knew about this, was part of this. it's not just some rogue accountant who did the falsification of business records, all part of this scheme that lasted a while and started way before stormy daniels. >> it's so interesting. amanda carpenter, there's so much going on in this trial, so much that's going to come out, lewd and lascivious behavior, details that perhaps donald trump would prefer not out there or not having to sit and listen

to quietly in a chair in a courtroom. but beyond that, latisha james saying the money he posted in his fraught trial is no good. then you have i think this thursday oral arguments beginning, the supreme court taking up the immunity case with donald trump, and liz cheney putting an op-ed out there in "the new york times" talking about why they need to move very quickly on this. it does seem like a lot is going on at the same time for donald trump for swing voters, for rfk voters, for independent voters. could all of this start to move the meter? >> well, we'll have to see. certainly when you look at the broad scope of donald trump's alleged criminal conduct, that has to have some kind of impact. what i think we should be focused on and the biggest challenge with all these trials is protecting the safety and integrity of the court. the biggest thing i'm studying

against the backdrop of all this, when you see donald trump threatening judges, their families, witnesses, putting them in the public profile. you see these jurors stepping down. it's not just the media attention they're scared of. it's the invasion of privacy, the threats of personal safety that logically follow from that. that's because of donald trump's profile and the invitations to violence that he invites into legal proceedings. we saw this after january 6th when members of congress were scared to vote for impeachment because of threats to their personal safety. when we look at the enforcement of these gag orders, the judges absolutely have to protect their court from that kind of intimidation because, if members of the court are scared to do their jobs, to serve to uphold the law, that institution will fall apart. we saw how that fell apart after january 6th with republicans failing to impeach the president and hold him accountable. that cannot happen to the court. so while there's a lot of tawdry

elements here and other things, really complex stuff to follow, that is the big thing we should all be focused on. >> chuck, mika brought up the fraud case and the fact that the attorney general of new york, letitia james, is trying to set aside the bond as insufficient. what should we be looking at there? does she have a chance to set aside that bond? >> well, i don't think she'd be bringing this action, joe, if she didn't believe she has a chance. the whole point in the bond is, of course, if mr. trump wants to appeal the verdict in that civil fraud trial, and of course he does, he has to put up some money because we don't want any defendant disz pating their assets while the appeal is pending. so letitia james has every right, and perhaps every reason, to challenge that, to make sure that the money is good, that it will be there if, in fact, the appeals court turns down mr. trump's appeal and he has to pay

the state as the trial judge ordered. it's a smart thing for her to do. i don't know if she ultimately prevails, but it is in the interest of the people of the state of new york that their attorney general ensure that judgments can be paid. >> dave aronberg, the fact that the prosecution apparently is starting with pecker, who is not one that they can make the arguments that they make against michael cohen, will this set a tone particularly if he can talk about other affairs that he was involved in, trying to buy and bury and stop from going to public attention and go directly to the fact that donald trump himself was involved in this kind of catch and kill? >> yes, rev. the defense is going to try to discredit the main witness, michael cohen. it's going to be harder for

other witnesses who are trump loyalists. the reason pecker has been cooperative is because he's under a non-prosecution agreement. he cut a deal with federal prosecutors and has been cooperating with prosecutors ever since. he's a key witness to corroborate michael cohen, but also explain the larger scheme. jurors want to know the why. it's not an element of the crime of falsification of business records, but they want to know the why. that's why he's really important. i also think along the same lines hope hicks will be really important. like david pecker, on the inside, she's someone who doesn't have an axe to grind against donald trump like michael cohen does. that's why there are such key witnesses here. it's going to be harder for the defense to establish bias against people, including hope hicks, who is still in trump's inner circle. >> it will be fascinating. there will be live coverage all day on msnbc. that does it for us this morning. we'll see you tomorrow morning at 6:00 a.m.

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good morning. it's 10:00 eastern. i'm ana cabrera, bringing you special coverage alongside my friend and colleague, jose diaz-balart. opening statements set to begin in the first criminal trial of a former president. we'll see both sides in trump's unprecedented hush money case preview the narrative they'll present over the next few weeks. >> up first will be the prosecution, promising never-before-heard details of a sex coverup in the run-up to the 2016 election. trump's defense, aiming to prevent the prosecution witnesses as liars. >> we could see the first prosecution witness today. david pecker, the former ceo of the parent company and publisher he