and provide a lot of entertainment. the question i have in the last minute or so we have is how this trial and its verdict could impact the slate of other trials that have yet to have dates set but certainly could happen in this calendar year. >> so one interesting thing that is going to come up, should donald trump testify, which seems unlikely unless he is going to go forward and cause chaos, but, you know, assuming if he were, the prosecutors have made a motion that various other lawsuits, verdicts in other lawsuits, should come up. he can be cross-examined about these other lawsuits, other liabilities. e. jean carroll, the civil fraud case, all of those will come back, and he will be forced to reckon with those if he testifies. as to the other lawsuits going forward, certainly any sentence

here, you know, particularly if he is in jail, would affect, you know, the logistics of how he is dealt with going forward. it could also affect a jail sentence if he is already convicted of a crime in this case. >> i'd be interested in the conversations with his lawyers around his testimony, even though he wants to. legal analyst kristy greenberg, that's a question for another time. thank you for joining us. thank you for getting up "way too early" with us on this thursday. i'll see you on "morning joe" in a few moments, and "morning joe" starts right now. momentum is building to oust johnson from his house speaker speakership, but he went on fox business over the weekend to remind republicans he has the backing of the party's dear leader. >> i spent hours with the president on friday. he's 100% with me. >> well, that settles it. trump is 100% with him. isn't that right, sir? >> are you going to protect speaker johnson? >> well, we'll see what happens

with that. >> that is a dose of classic trump loyalty. he's got your back so he can push you under a bus. >> speaker mike johnson pushing forward with a series of foreign aid bills despite growing pushback within his party. how much will he need to lean on democrats to get the funding passed, and will it cost him the speakership? plus, the senate dismisses the articles of impeachment against homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas. that was fast. >> yeah. >> we'll show you how things played out on capitol hill, and why mitch mcconnell said it was not a proud day in the history of the senate. >> huh. and what to expect today when jury selection picks up again in former president trump's hush money trial. they went pretty fast in the first couple days. we already have seven jurors seated. >> donald trump saying they're moving too fast. >> oh, they're rushing it.

okay. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, april 18th. along with joe, willie, and me, we have former white house director of communications to president obama, jennifer palmieri. she's co-host of the msnbc podcast with claire, "how to win 2024." chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," peter baker is with us. and the author of "how the right lost its mind," the bulwark's charlie sykes is with us this morning. >> we have a lot to talk about. in a few minutes, willie, we'll talk about speaker johnson and ukraine. i must say, he's had a conversion. you know, it's like "a christmas carol." the ghost of the republican party past came to visit him in the middle of the night and said to him, "well," and he said, "yes, sir." >> no, i think -- >> no, listen. what do i say about conversion? >> i'll take 'em.

>> i'm a baptist. >> yeah. >> we love deathbed conversions, midlife conversions. you want to convert? just as i am. cleanse my soul of one dark spot. okay, we'll take speaker johnson, who sounds like ronald reagan. i will say, in defense of some of the leaders in that house gop, like some of those leaders that run important committees. sounds like they're actually concerned about china, iran, and russia. >> this might literally be a political deathbed conversion for mike johnson as the threats to his job continue from that faction. joe, speaker johnson invoked ronald reagan's name, finally said it out loud. it's something we've been talking about for months now on this show, the party of ronald reagan turning its back on ukraine in a fight against russia. speaker johnson said yesterday, "i am a child of the '80s. i am a child of the reagan era. we have to do what's right here.

we have to give ukraine what it needs." where was that over the last couple of months? unclear. >> don't know. >> but he's come around. the question is, have enough other republicans come around to that position to clear this funding and get it to ukraine? perhaps as early as saturday night when speaker johnson says there will be a vote. >> see if democrats step up. >> maybe he'll go to the floor. >> no. >> maybe he'll say -- >> listen -- >> -- mtg, tear down that wall! i mean, there's so many options now. >> yeah, there's a lot to say. >> he can borrow so much from ronald reagan. >> yes, he can. he appears to be doing so. >> yeah, i will say, reagan always figured out how to be conservative, idealogical, a compromise, but moderate in temperament. he'd be shaking his head over

arizona where you have republicans going back to 1864 for a ban that actually allows, well, forces young rape victims, incest victims from maricopa county, tucson, arizona, across the state, if they're raped, like the ohio case and the illegal immigrant, the state is going to have a forced birth for that 10-year-old or 11-year-old or 12-year-old. it's happening. it happens across america. this is what the republicans in arizona are forcing on their people, the women, the children. >> the guy who came up with the law raped someone to get his children. republicans in arizona's state

legislature rejected an attempt to repeal a near total abortion ban from 1864. >> it's like people, willie, are running into a burning house and saying, "hey, we got an exit. you can run out the back door and not be engulfed in flames. come with us." >> you can save all these women. >> "no, we're fine. we're going to keep them in the house." >> let them burn. >> let it burn down. we're cool. no, no, go out the back door. the second time now that democrats have tried to save republicans from their own worst 1864 instincts. what do they do, willie? they go, "no, we're good. we want to stick with the 1864 law." >> even if you hold the reprehensible view that someone who is raped must deliver the baby because you said so, do it for the politics. how about that? do it for cynical political reasons, that most people in your state think this is appalling and, yet, you're standing by it. in fact, only two republicans

joined all of the democrats in the house chamber in arizona on the vote to repeal the civil war era ban. house republicans later voted to adjourn until next week. they did this last week, as well, leaving a path for repeal of this bill unclear. democrats in the statehouse blasted their republican colleagues. >> the message for today is clear, arizona republicans voted not once, but twice to uphold the draconian 1864 abortion ban that includes absolutely no exceptions for rape and no exceptions for incest. our voices may not have been heard today, but let us be clear, we will be heard in november. >> jen, the republicans in arizona keep running back this playbook. they did it last week where they didn't want to take a vote on it, so they're just going to dismiss themselves, adjourn for a week, and do what? i don't know. because they came back after a week this time and did the same thing all over again. again, only two republicans in the arizona house voted to

repeal a law that would force a woman who was raped or is a victim of incest to deliver the baby. >> democrats could have voted against it, too, but they say, let's pass something on the state ballot initiative and not give them a lifeline. you know, i have two takeaways from this. one is just how destructive donald trump's presidency has been, right? how destructive this has been for women. and when republicans are in charge, they will take the most extreme position when it comes to, you know, women's rights on the state level. you know, trump is trying to say he said arizona will overturn this, but they didn't. we left it to the states, and this is what happened. he may be trying to moderate his position, but he already did the most extreme thing, took away the fundamental rights of women. >> and brags about it. >> he said it was incredible, amazing. he said people were happy.

one of the state representatives that was part of the debate yesterday, a republican, talked about how, you know, pregnancies don't have to be picture perfect. meaning, you know -- >> what? >> -- suggesting that it's okay if pregnancies come about by rape or incest. they don't need to be picture perfect in order for a woman to need to have that child. >> my god. just -- >> the hypocrisy of that, of course. they say it generally. if it comes into their own home, it happens in their own home, if their 10-year-old daughter were raped by an illegal immigrant, they'd be the first to say, "okay, we're going to take care of that." they'd be the first. the hypocrisy is staggering. charlie sykes, jen is right. donald trump has been just absolutely terrible and destructive for the rights of women, for the rights of rape victims, for the rights of incest victims. you move it to politics, so destructive. we've said this before, because we're really kind people and

we're trying to help republicans. we're trying to help them find their way back to when they can actually win an election once in a while. they just won't listen. they just keep losing. you live in a state where this is -- again, i think it is one of the great examples. we talk about kansas, about kentucky, for good reason, but i keep going back to the wisconsin supreme court election that should have been a slugfest. instead, it was a wipeout. why? they were clinging to a 150-year-old abortion ban, and it cost them the supreme court in wisconsin. they don't care. >> yeah. well, it did. you see this in one state after another. the politics here are fascinating. you have donald trump who, last week, thought he was going to neutralize this issue, kind of throws the pro-life movement under the bus, even though he's responsible for roe versus wade being overturned.

kari lake flip-flops on the issue. as you point out, in arizona, they have a law on the books that probably has the support of less than 10% of the electorate. they have an easy way out, and they've chosen not to do it. so you see this dynamic here where, at the very moment that republicans are saying, "hey, can we moderate our position on this? you know, is there an off-ramp?" the arizona republican party is basically saying, "no, we're completely comfortable with this," even though it is probably going to cost them control of the legislature, may cost them the u.s. senate seat, and probably is going to tip arizona over in the presidential election. this is one of the -- you know, again, part of what makes this fascinating is kind of the trick box that donald trump has put republicans in. he says, "okay, you know, i am the pro-life president. we have overturned roe versus wade, but it is completely now

up to the states. states rights. except look what the states are doing." while he is trying to sound moderate, he owns every one of these extreme, draconian laws, and republicans aren't backing off. it was an amazing scene yesterday in arizona. >> unbelievable. >> i just don't understand why the women of arizona are going to have to go through the process of showing politicians what these abortion bans will mean to their lives. you mentioned rape victims, incest victims, people with fetal abnormalities. that's a lot of people. but women who just want regular health care who might need a dnc, an abortion-life procedure won't get them. it is going to have an incredible impact on women and families across the state of arizona, if this ban stays in effect, as extreme as it is. >> by the way, we're still waiting to see -- i mean, we're concerned because clarence thomas, of course, in overturning roe v. wade wrote in a concurring opinion that we

have to look at not only things like same-sex marriage, also have to look at the right to contraception. >> right. >> then you have ivp in alabama. the senate in washington. the u.s. senate, republicans are blocking an attempt to make ivf protected. again, this is impacting women's health care. for women who consider themselves to be pro-life, who miscarry, yeah, it's really terrible. >> exactly. so much to get to. last night, speaker mike johnson released the te tai details of d foreign aid package, including four separate bills. one is $61 billion for ukraine. another provides $26 billion for israel. the third is $8 billion for the indo-pacific allies. the fourth is aimed at combating u.s. aadversaries. the fight now heads to the rules committee this morning where

speaker johnson will likely need democrats to support the measure after several republicans said they would vote against them. democrats appear inclined to approve the package after president biden gave his full support yesterday. >> by the way, they're going to vote against the package because, again, as leaders of their top committees are saying, republicans are saying about other republicans, they're dupes or maybe even worse, useful idiots or even worse. they're parroting vladimir putin's talking points. they're parroting the talking points of the russian invaders. that's happening in the united states congress. >> yeah. >> so, yeah, they're going to push back on any attempt to fund freedom fighters. >> despite the threats from his republican colleagues, johnson is pushing forward. >> we're going to stand for free tom and make sure that vladimir putin doesn't march through europe. we are an exceptional nation. we're the greatest nation on the planet, and we have to act like it. we have to protect to putin and

xi and iran and north korea and anybody else that we will defend freedom. it doesn't mean boots on the ground. we're not the world's policemen, but we have to do the right thing. i think the congress will take an important stand here. >> are you going to have to rely on democrats to pass the rule in order to bring the bills to the floor and also the legislation itself? >> i hope not. i hope our republican colleagues will stand together, stick together on this. i think we understand, look, i'm a child of the '80s. i regard myself as a reagan republican. i under the concept of maintaining peace through strength. that's one of our guiding principles, an important philosophy. it is a big part of our party and world view. here is an opportunity to make that stand at a really critical time in world history. >> i mean, this is like a movie for me. i went to sleep last night, and we were living in the age of trump. i woke up this morning, and now we're in the age of reagan again. listen to this.

peace through strength. huh. >> sounds good. >> a couple days ago, i kind of got heated up about how republicans hate on america so much. >> mm-hmm. >> i was talking about how horrible america is. i said that america is the greatest country in the world. they need to start saying it. well, the speaker said, "we're the greatest nation in the world." good on him. we don't hear this from republicans. we certainly don't hear that we have to actually fund people who are fighting against russian aggression much these days. except from, again, those responsible leaders, whether you're talking about chairman of the intel committee or the chairman of the foreign affairs committee, people who are actually talking like grown-ups. i've got to say, give credit where credit is due, and credit is definitely due with speaker johnson talking like a reagan republican, talking about the need to protect freedom in this fight between western democracy and what's going on in russia.

peter baker, maybe you can help us out here. i'm absolutely fascinated by the relationship between mike johnson and joe biden. i know so little about it. i hear from time to time that they talk to each other. they talked, i guess, a couple of days ago. when this package came out, president biden was extraordinarily optimistic about it. "hey, i'm strongly supportive of this." it sounds like they had a talk. tell me about this relationship and how we got from speaker johnson being, his foreign policy being shaped by marjorie taylor greene, dalton, georgia, a town i love, and how it went from that to being shaped by ronald wilson reagan. >> yeah, so i think president biden, you're right to say, he doesn't really have a relationship with speaker johnson. they've spoken a number of times but not very much and not very long. they at no time know they didn't

know each other before the speaker took the position. in congress, you can't get something to the floor if you're not able to command your own majority. he has some sympathy, i think, to the problem speaker johnson has, but he doesn't trust that speaker johnson is going to necessarily deliver. for speaker johnson, they've wanted to make the case that biden is weak. that's what they came off of last weekend's iranian attack on israel, trying to make the case that it only happened because president biden is weak and didn't deter. it is hard to make that case if you're not supporting israel yourself with the funding they've asked for, not to mention the ukrainians, the funding they've asked for. the ukrainians are in desperate straits. they're out of ammunition in a lot of cases. they're looking at a situation where they were on the cusp of winning, now, suddenly, they could be losing because they don't have the resources they have been promised for the last 16, 17 months since this congress took office.

the president has been willing to give speaker johnson a lot of rope. he's been patient with him. there is sort of a moment of truth arriving at this point, and i think the president is going to be watching to see whether speaker johnson can pull it off. >> you know, it is fascinating, peter. you have republicans that are still running around complaining about the border, yet they killed the strongest border policy bill ever. because donald trump told them to. they complain joe biden is weak, yet they won't provide funding for taiwan, ukraine, or israel. now, it looks like they may be doing that. do you sense that, perhaps it shall -- and i've been waiting for the influence of chairman mccaul, chairman turner, some of the other reagan republicans that are running these committees, do you think that, over time, their influence, their pull may have been too much for speaker johnson to ignore, or did he decide that it

was in his best interest to use them so, you know, republicans won't be accused of not only botching a border deal but also losing -- possibly losing ukraine to vladimir putin? >> good question. i can't get into his head. i'm not a congressional reporter, but i think you're right to say that, you know, the establishment part of the republican party that traditionally believes in peace through strength, the reagan slogan, has finally lost its patience with the far right of the party, which has been blocking this for so long. i think they realize that they look bad publicly, that they're taking away an issue that they could have against president biden. you know, the essence of the case they want to make against biden on policy is to make him look weak, go back to the afghanistan withdrawal. it's hard to make the case when you're holding up the aid. you can't say, "gosh, he didn't give the right weapons to

ukraine," which is a legitimate argument people have made, including democrats against president biden, when you're not willing to provide any aid whatsoever to them. i think the politics of this are finally coming around to the point where he felt the pressure to move forward. it's not easy. he can only afford to lose two votes because of vacancies in the house. he has the slimmest majority practically that you can have, and it looks like he has to rely on democrats. he could stay as speaker, but if you rely on democrats, that's a position of weakness in your own party. no republican speaker wants to be speaker because democrats saved him. that's a prescription for a lot of real churning volatility going forward. >> add to that intrigue that mike gallagher, the republican of wisconsin, is scheduled to leave his job. remember, he is stepping down on friday, the day before a planned vote. maybe he'll stick around. we'll see. let's bring into the conversation nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. ali, let's start first big picture with what peter was

talking about, and why this change in rhetoric, change in tone, perhaps even change in policy from speaker johnson, why did he come around to this? >> yeah, it is striking. i actually think it is important that joe talks about the role of people like chairman mccaul, who is all over this legislation. he's the person who i believe is the sponsor of the repo act, which is one of the key planks of the fourth bill about combating foreign adversaries. it'd effectively allow putin to pay for what we aid ukraine with by using leverage, frozen russian assets. that's one plank of this piece of legislation we've seen. i do think that, as speaker, johnson has been a different person than he was as a member of this republican conference, though it has been striking to see. i think this week especially it came into focus with the ways he is challenging his conference at various points to say, "hey, this is important enough that i'm not going to worry about losing my job over it." certainly, that's a worry and concern, if not from johnson

explicitly, most rank and file republicans who definitely do not want to spend the spring finding another speaker. i candidly don't even know who would want the job at this point, but it would be a real problem for them to have to find somebody else. we're watching that closely, but i think when you look at the landscape writ large on this legislation, it's important to point out that it's the same same but different as the senate supplemental that passed several weeks ago. the reason you're seeing democrats speak in support of this is because the numbers are largely the same for ukraine, for the indo-pacific, and for israel. it's that fourth bill that's going to be interesting here because it has a lot of things in it. congressman jake and i were talking about it on "way too early." it has things democrats want passed. the tiktok bill that would force ownership change. maria cantwell likes the changes in the legislation she sees, could only ensure a better

reception on the senate side of the rebuilding. the fact it has the repo act in it we were talking about. there's going to be a border provision in there, and i think that's the thing democrats are looking for. look, by and large, this is something that can be passed in bipartisan fashion, even if it is a different vehicle for doing it than the senate supplemental. >> ali, speaker johnson suggested he could have a final vote, a passage on the supplemental bills on saturday night. before he gets to that, it has to clear the rules committee where several republicans said they won't support it. may need to reach out to democrats to clear the vote. how does it look to play out here? >> the rules committee feels like this rules committee doesn't deserve a lot of look here, but it gets things to the floor. for the party in the majority to have to use members from the other party to pass a rule is rare, and it is stunning that

that could be the position that speaker johnson is in on this foreign aid legislation. he has several people, including chip roy and tom massey, on the rules committee, and they openly said they're questioning whether or not to vote for this. if democrats come along and come together on this, yes, it gets them to the house floor, but then the full house has to vote on the rule. the way you can think about the rule is it's like they're the bouncer to the bar of the legislation, is the best way for us to put it at this point. you can't get into the bar without going through the bouncer, so the full house has to work on actually passing this before they can vote on each of these four pieces of legislation. that's going to be really important, too. >> all right. good update. still ahead on "morning joe," despite his past criticisms of donald trump, former attorney general bill barr now appears to be effect effectively endorsing him. >> shocked, shocked. plus, the two top lawmakers on the house oversight committee get into a pretty heated

exchange over the republican-led push to impeach president biden. we'll show you that moment, or at least a part of it. it went on for quite some time. you're watching "morning joe." we're back in 60 seconds. ds

. we have another aboutface from a trump ally turned critic, harsh critic, turned ally again, despite previously warning a second trump term would be, quote, chaos. >> chaos. >> and let me just say this correctly, a horror show. >> you're not saying this. >> i'm not. >> who is saying this? >> bill barr. >> a horror show, a nightmare. >> yeah, so i'm sure he's going to be campaigning for president biden to try to stop this madness. >> avoid a horror show. >> who wants chaos and a horror show in the white house? >> former attorney general bill

barr now says he plans to vote for donald trump in november. >> what? wait but -- >> do these guys know that -- anyhow. >> i don't understand. >> in a fox news interview yesterday, barr was asked about the general election choices. here's what he had to say. >> i'm given two bad choices. it is my duty to pick the person i think would do the least harm to the country, and in my mind, i'll vote the republican ticet. the real danger to the country, to democracy, is the progressive agenda, as i say. while trump -- and i said trump may be playing russian roulette, but continuation of the biden administration is national suicide, in my opinion. >> oh. >> that's such a lie, and he knows it's a lie. charlie, we're going to play some clips in a second, but i have to stop. we've got to stop and call out the lies.

when these people know they're lying. barr is playing for, i guess, a fox news audience because he wants to keep giving speeches. i don't know why he's doing it. he doesn't believe a word he just said there. because he knows how chaotic donald trump is. he knows, as he said, that him being in the white house again would be a horror show. he also knows -- >> russian roulette. >> -- you and i, we all agree on the progressive agenda. we're not supporters of it. we also know that joe biden has spent his presidency, like, feeling pressure from progressives because they say he's too moderate. this guy from delaware who, again, is not some left-wing wacko, and bill barr knows that. he'd rather have chaos and a horror show, he says. that guy is going to vote -- listen, i've been through this before with people.

they talk that way on tv, and afterwards, i ask who they vote for, and they go, oh, i voted for -- right? he is going to vote for joe biden. he knows national suicide doesn't come from joe biden. he may not like his policies, but it comes because donald trump has said, you know, he's going to terminate the constitution. he'll be a dictator from day one. he is going to use s.e.a.l. team six to execute his political opponents and nobody can do anything about it. i can go down the line. barr knows, this guy can't be president again. >> he knows it. this is a choice. i mean, this is one of those wtf moments, where you have donald trump waging this campaign to undermine the rule of law. bill barr knows all of this. he's decided it is a binary choice because, in his world, in order to stay relevant and viable, he has to put party over country. i mean, literally, when he uses

the phrase russian roulette, when he uses the term russian roulette, he knows the danger he poses. he doesn't have to do this. look, you know, what is extraordinary is the contrast between what bill barr is saying and what the former secretary of defense, esper is saying. mike pence is saying, "i'm not going to endorse him." there are exit ramps. you are not required to look at donald trump and say, "okay, because i don't like student loan forgiveness, i'm going to put a man who is clearly unhinged, who clearly tried to overthrow the government, called for terminating the constitution." we could spend the next ten minutes walking through all of the things. "somebody found liable for rape, put them back in the oval office." but i do think it is interesting, the contrast between bill barr and much of the rest of the cabinet. we need to remind ourselves that never before in american history

have so many people who worked so closely with a president taken the position that, you know, don't do this again. we've seen him. he is unfit for office. you do not want him back in the oval office. >> correct. >> the fact that bill barr reminds us that he is a political hack is, of course, interesting. also, realize what he and people like governor sununu are going to have to defend. they're basically going to have to say -- and this is radical. i mean, we ought to continue to be surprised by this -- up until five minutes ago, nobody in america would say a convicted felon should be elected president of the united states. now, they are all saying it, up and down the ticket. they have to defend what peter calls the kaleidoscopic collision. they have to explain, we don't care about this man's character, how deranged he is.

we don't care about his crimes or what he intends to do as president. and the fact that bill barr says that it's russian roulette for the country to put donald trump back in the presidency, and he's okay with that. what a remarkable moment. >> what a remarkable moment. you're right, they own it. he owns it. chris sununu owns it. you know, judge said trump is a rapist. you know, said he is going to terminate the constitution on day one. said he is going to be a dictator on day one. of course, january 6th, continuing to praise people who beat the hell out of cops and were ultimately responsible for the deaths, according to their families. they own all of this and so much more. >> barr is the latest in a long line of republicans who found the courage to stand up to donald trump, only to then come crawling back again. take a look.

>> we're tired of the donald trump drama. we want real republican drma. donald trump is not a real republican. off the teleprompter, he can barely keep a thought. >> you support him for president even though you believe he contributed to an insurrection. you believe he is lying about the last election. you support him for president even if he is convicted in the manhattan case. i want to say, the answer to that is correct, right? >> me and 51% of america. >> he is xenophobic, religious bigot. he doesn't represent my party. i'm for donald trump because i know what i'm going to get. we need somebody that, on day one, can get this country back on track. please help president trump. if you can afford 5 or 10 bucks, if you can't afford a dollar, fine, just pray. if you have money to give, give it. >> there is no way we are going to allow a con artist to take over the conservative movement, and donald trump is a con artist.

>> you said it'd be an honor to be offered a spot on his ticket. >> anybody offered the chance to be vice president should be honored. the world was a better place when he was president. >> there is a sophomore quality that is entertaining about mr. trump, but i'm concerned about him, having him in charge of the nuclear weapons. i think his response, his visceral response to attack people on their appearance, short, tall, fat, ugly, my goodness, that happened in junior high. are we not way above that? would we not all be worried to have somebody like that in charge of the nuclear arsenal? but i'm proud of the job donald trump did as president. our differences are outweighed by our significant agreements. more important than simple agreement is accomplishment. president trump gets things done. >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. he should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw

what was unfolding. >> can he count on your support? >> yes. >> that's an endorsement? >> i will support president trump. >> would you be willing to serve in a trump cabinet? >> in the right position. if i'm the best guy for the job, yes. >> donald trump is a progressive. he supports imminent domain. he supported tax increases before. he's donated $300,000 to democratic candidates. the fact the republican party is now claiming him is both unfortunate and, to me, inauthentic. i want my daughter to grow up in president donald j. trump's america. >> oh, my goodness. kayleigh mcenany, who became the white house press secretary after all of her criticism. i mean, jen, you just -- you and i talk about this a lot, but how do those people look themselves in the mirror as their souls escape their bodies through their mouths as they make this conversion? i want to add in, too, because

this started with bill barr. he's been extraordinarily critical of donald trump in the last couple of years, calling the attempt to overturn the election a grotesque embarrassment. saying a vote for donald trump is like playing russian roulette with the country. he has been supportive of the doj in its pursuit of these trials against donald trump, saying there is no weaponization. this is the department of justice doing its job. he was impressed by jack smith's indictment. famously said, "if half of what is true in the indictment in the classified documents case is true, donald trump is, quote, toast." yet, here he is saying, "he's got my vote." >> i am shocked. it's like, we shouldn't be shocked. it's the least surprising thing ever, of course, bill barr comes around and supports trump. but i really thought, given all of the cabinet that has waled away from him, which is historic in its own right, i thought bill barr would not support him this time. poor willie had to live through

my gestations of outrage in watching that last clip of all of these cowards that eventually went his way. i will never understand this. willie, it's not that great being relevant. >> yeah. >> i'll never understand how it is worth it to them. it is interesting when you contrast that with what is happening with mike johnson, who seems to have really taken to -- taken hold on him that he is the speaker of the united states house of representatives. you know, the meeting he had with president biden, mitch mcconnell, and hakeem jeffries, and chuck schumer, vice president harris, they really gave him the business. i'm not sure if you understand what we're doing here, but we are the united states of america, and we stand up to russia when they're being adversarial in this way. you know, maybe there is a new reckoning coming for republicans. that would be great. but i will continue to be shocked by the cowardness and

hypocrisy when you see it like that. >> speaker johnson did spend the weekend at mar-a-lago, but he is having a moment. >> that is true. >> peter baker, another quote from bill barr, which could be the most important of the quotes for the man he says he is voting for. he said this recently of donald trump. donald trump showed he can't forge the decisive victory at the national level. he is a three-time loser, and i think he will clearly lose again on the national level. a quote from bill barr about donald trump. barr now says he will vote for the three-time loser. >> yeah, i think we forget that bill barr is a idealogical guy. he has a mean demeanor, and people have mistaken him for being centrist. he's not. if you read his book, memoir, as much as he is criticizing trump and the progressive left, he has very strong conservative views. i think this is, you know -- this is about partisanship, ultimately. in the end, people come home to their parties.

they can tune out the clips you played and say, "well, that was then, and this is now. i'll go for my party over what i said before." you're right. bill barr is a striking example of this because there's probably no witness against trump who has been more powerful, in some ways, than bill barr, who testified before the january 6th committee that he told the president, then the president, president trump, that his claims of an election theft by joe biden were b.s. he used the full word. he made very clear that when former president trump, when then president trump was going out and telling the country the election was stolen, that he knew it wasn't, that he knowingly went and told the country that the election was stolen when he had been told by people like bill barr that it wasn't. therefore, when he was trying to overturn an election and hold onto power, hold onto power that he had been denied by the voters in a re-election, according to

bill barr, you know, we know that that was something donald trump understood was not true. you know, of course, striking to see somebody who is as powerful a witness toward the case that donald trump tried illegally and unconstitutionally to seize power, then turn around to endorse him for re-election, says a lot about the pull and power of partisan identification these days. >> well, and it is something that jon meacham regularly says is one of the great challenges, on whether we survive as roadway public after this election, if donald trump wins. you've had all these people say, again, this is russian roulette if donald trump gets in there again. now, he's endorsing him just out of blind partisanship. you can go down the list, though, of people who -- >> it's heartbreaking. >> -- served, who are conservative, who have been

conservative their entire life. starting with me, charlie sykes. let's talk about the people who served with donald trump. the vice president of the united states who served with donald trump said he won't be endorsing him, and for good reason. said he deserved hanging, basically. you have the chief of staff of donald trump, general kelly, who served, who talked about how it's sickening, what he says about young men and women who gave their lives to america in service of this country. that donald trump believes they're suckers. general kelly, obviously, lost a son serving america in war, will not be supporting donald trump. you have his secretary of defense, mad dog mattis, as trump loves to call him, will not be supporting donald trump. you have one of the last secretary of defenses, secretary esper, who said he will not be

supporting donald trump. i mean, we can go down the list. secretary of states, his ambassador to the united nations, they understand. by the way, they understand that donald trump is not a conservative. kayleigh mcenany, give me a break. she runs around calling everybody progressive and left wing. well, she called donald trump a progressive, too. all these people, con artist. marco called him a con artist and was like, "yeah, i'd love to serve." religious bigot, lindsey? you go down the list. it is the harsh partisanship that is one of the great threats to our country, and it is coming from these people who know he's bad for america. >> who were there. >> yet, they're going to support him anyway.

>> it is not like they're privacy to huge secrets. we saw january 6th. we see what's happening with the documents. honestly, might be nice to go back to the day where it's shocking when somebody lies multiple times about using campaign money to pay off somebody to keep quiet. it would be refreshing, but that'll never happen. peter baker and charlie sykes, thank you, both, very much. coming up on "morning joe," steve rattner joining us with charts on major league baseball's efforts to renew america's pastime. "morning joe" will be right back. take care of your insurance claim? that means less stress for you. >> woman: thanks. >> tech: my pleasure. have a good one. >> woman: you too. >> tech: schedule today at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ tamra, izzy, and emma... they respond to emails with phone calls... and they don't 'circle back', they're already there. they wear business sneakers and pad their keyboards with something that makes

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never hit a walk-off home run. until now maybe. deep right field. good night! >> the announcer speaking it into existence. cedric mullins, a two-run home run lifting the orioles to a 4-2 win over the twins for the o's fourth straight victory, jen palmieri. they stay a half game behind the yankees, who stopped a three-game skid with a comeback win last night up in toronto over the bluejays. aaron judge breaking a 4-4 tie in the ninth with the two-run single with two outs. yankees with a 6-4 win. in boston, major league baseball saw its fastest game in almost 15 years. red sox starter tanner houck

threw 94 pitches. the win over the guardians lasted 1 hour and 49 minutes, marking the fastest nine-inning game in the majors since june of 2010. that is the pitch clock, the new pace of play in the big leagues. red sox tied for third now, three games back of the yankees. it is all happening for you. >> yeah, it's all happening. all as we've foreseen. we're prepared to finish safely in last place after breaking the hearts of red sox fans. no, they look -- their starting pitching has been really great. we had no good quality starts last year. we have young pitchers that are doing that right now. defense, problems with the defense, but, yeah, sox in the middle there, all packed up. i'll tell ya what, jack and i saw the sox game because it went so fast. i'm usually asleep by the fifth inning, but that thing flew last night. tanner houck, extraordinary

control. we also sat and watched the last two innings of the yankees and bluejays game. yikes. hard to watch for a red sox fan. aaron judge finally kind of getting out of his slump and having a game-winning hit. anyway, the pace of play, as willie said, picked up across the league since we had the pitch clock change last season. let's bring in right now a man who can put a chart to just about anything, steve rattner. he's looking at the impact of baseball's new rules. steve, i must say, watching a baseball game, it's completely different this year from last year. i'm dead serious. you see a pitch, especially in a red sox/yankees game, i'd walk downstairs, go, "hey, mika, how is everything going?" "pretty good." "what are you doing?" "not much, on the phone with my kids." i'd walk upstairs, next pitch. go downstairs, "do you have any

plans for tomorrow?" it was so slow. now, it really comes at you just like it. you look down for a second, wait, baseball is moving fast. it's so much easier to watch now. >> joe, you have 15 seconds if nobody is on base. 20 seconds if people are on base to get the beer. not every game is going to be the way it was last night, but let's talk about what has happened. if we take a look over here at average game length, you can see it was creeping up. i started going to the polo grounds in 1962, and games were 2 1/2 hours. they got up to 3 hours and 10 minutes. they put in the change, and, boom, games went to 2 hours and 39 minutes last year. basically hung in there around 2 hours and 41 minutes this year. this is all -- we're living in a tiktok age. people want things to move faster, especially sports. this has been one of baseball's problems. we'll talk in a minute about some other of baseball's problems. >> let's move to the next chart. oh, you have another element there. go ahead. >> sorry.

the other change -- one of the other changes made, willie, they made the bases 3 inches larger. >> yes. >> they were trying to create more stolen bases to make the game a little more exciting in today's world. you can see, it also had that effect. total bases stolen last season went up to 3,500. almost tying the record of 3,590 games set back in the '80s. that also made the game a bit more exciting. of course, as you know, they eliminated the designated -- expanded the designator, excuse me, across both leagues, and so forth. they're trying to get the game back in front of more americans. >> the larger bases marginally but makes them closer to the next base, so the hope is more action, more people stealing. with the dh, more hitting, more action in baseball. what does it mean for attendance for major league baseball? steve, they're hoping the young generation, which perhaps is a little impatient with the pace of old major league baseball

games, hoping to bring in some new fans to the game. how is that going in terms of attendance? >> it is showing signs of improvement. baseball attendance grew in world war ii but peaked before the financial crisis in 2007 at 80 million fans in a year. then it dropped. obviously, covid in here distorted it all. you can see it dropped pretty consistently. last year, it did bounce back to 71 million. we have some fans back. the quality of the teams, the competitive nature of the games, which teams are winning and so forth plays a big role. what's also interesting economically, to watch economics work, is payable did increase the ticket prices substantially all through these years. this black line is the one to focus on. this is the ratio of ticket prices to people's incomes. in other words, how affordable is baseball for the average american? you can see baseball essentially was pricing itself out of the market. once attendance peaked and the

teams realized they have to get fans into the stands, you can see they've cut the prices, not in actual terms, but they've cut them in relation to incomes. they've made baseball more affordable. what's not on this chart is that they have not made hot dogs more affordable. they've made hot dogs less affordable. in a way, you can go to the game on a more affordable basis, but the hot dogs are cost you more. >> you have to get the hot dog. the prices are up. beer is outrageous. you have to do it. it is part of the experience. finally and quickly, let's move to the last chart. in terms of television ratings, as joe said, and i share it, is you sit down with your kid for a 7:05 game. used to be, well, this is going to go until 10:05, 10:30. why invest early on? now, if it is 9:00, 9:30, that's more manageable. are they seeing that in the ratings? >> you have not quite seen that in the ratings yet, but let's take a look at what has happened. the super bowl always did really well against the world series, even going all the way back to the early '70s. you can see, again, the

popularity of baseball and what happened. super bowl up, up, up, and this year being so extraordinary, even my wife watched it. baseball going kind of down, down, down. you finally sort of hit almost rock bottom here with the rangers versus the diamondbacks. even the final game, this triangle, didn't attract many more viewers than the series as a whole. this is the cubs winning the world series for the first time since 1908. this is the dodgers versus the yankees, highest rated world series game. of course, you have two marquee teams. all of this actually has an effect. without as many viewers on television, television rights get affected, the profitability of the team gets affected. this is interesting because there have been three recent deals in major sports. let's look at the differences. baltimore orioles, owned by peter angelos for 30 years, over 20 years, he made a 7.7% annual return on his investment. bought it for $193 million and

sold it to rrubenstein for ten times the amount. he could have left his market in the stock market. the washington commanders, owned by dan schneider, not a beloved figure in sports, was sold to josh harris. he owned it about 25 years. you can see he way outperformed the stock market. lastly, the dallas mavericks. mark cuban selling, knocked the cover off the ball in terms of return. sports that are successful have been more successful for the owners financially, as well, with attendance and other measures. >> you look at the attendance, and everything is good. ratings go down. willie, let me just say, as much as i love baseball, i didn't see a pitch of the rangers/diamondbacks. i just didn't. despite hating the yankees, for

good reason, and not really caring for the dodgers, if it is the yankees/dodgers, i, along with everybody else, will be watching that world series because of all the superstars on both of those teams. i mean, it does depend on who is in the series. >> it does, for sure. even by that, with a good matchup or a matchup with a big market, it's a tough comparison to the super bowl, effectively a national holiday. taylor swift is in the stands. you have usher. all the things that come with that. i agree, joe, the new rules from last year, seeing it this year, the games are moving. there's more action. there's base stealing, like you and i watched in the '80s. the game is on a good trajectory. steve rattner, thanks for the charts, as always. ahead this morning, as house republicans push forward with their presidential impeachment inquiry, democrats are demanding to see any shred of evidence of a crime. we have a heated exchange between the top members of the

oversight committee. plus, new polling on where young voters stand in the 2024 presidential election. "morning joe" is coming right back.

president trump spent a lot of his time this year in a courtroom. he directly blames you, president biden, as being responsible behind the prosecutions. how do you respond to that? >> his lack of ethics has nothing to do with me. i've not once talked to anyone in my administration about trump's legal problems. a lot of them occurred well before i became president. i have nothing to do with that. >> president biden responding to donald trump's false claims that he is behind the former president's criminal prosecutions. quote, his lack of ethics has nothing to do with me. welcome back to "morning joe." it is thursday, april 18th. jen palmieri is still with us. joining the conversation, we

have former msnbc host and contributor to "washington monthly," chris matthews. and professor at princeton university and "new york times" best selling author, eddie glaude jr. he is the author of the new book entitled "we are the leaders we have looking for." we'll talk about that in just a moment. first, president biden was in pittsburgh yesterday as part of his three-day swing through battleground pennsylvania. while speaking at the united steelworkers headquarters, biden called for tripling the u.s. tariff rate on chinese steel and aluminum imports and criticized his 2024 opponent, donald trump. >> for too long, the chinese government has poured state money into chinese steel companies, and the prices are unfairly low because the companies don't need to worry about making a profit. the chinese government subsidizes them so heavily. they're not competing. they're cheating. look, right now, my u.s. trade

representative is investigating trade practice by the chinese government regarding steel and aluminum. if that confirms the anti-competitive trade practices, i'm calling on her to consider triping the rates for steel and aluminum imports from china. [ applause ] under my predecessor, who is busy right now -- [ laughter ] -- pennsylvania lost 275,000 jobs. look at the facts. on my watch, unemployment hasn't been this low, for this long, in 50 years. that's 50 years. [ applause ] i was reminded of what my opponent said in paris not too long ago. they asked him to go visit american grave sites. he said no, he wouldn't do it because they were all suckers and losers. i'm not making that up.

the staff will acknowledge it today, suckers and losers. undeserved. to have been the commander in chief for my son. >> we were talking about that before. you have general kelly who said that trump had called men and women who gave the ultimate sacrifice to america suckers and losers. asked, what's in it for them? chris matthews, it's been a mystery to democrats for about 30 years now, why republicans do so well with working class and mid middle class americans. we did in 1994 when we were elected. people making less than $50,000 voted republican pretty overwhelmingly. we've seen it through the years. people with high school degrees

or less flocking to donald trump. there's always been that what's the matter with kansas question. why do people vote against their own economic self-interest? i think, sometimes, democrats don't delineate the dinks differences strongly enough. donald trump does. if you're in pennsylvania under the last guy, you can say, oh, it was better. no. they lost 270,000 jobs. under biden, unemployment hasn't been this low for this long for 50 years. i mean, he's taking it to the streets, so to speak. he is taking it to the workers. i'm wondering, chris, will it make a difference? will this democratic president from scranton get voters, working class voters to vote in their best interest instead of voting for a guy who passed the largest tax cuts for billionaires and multinational corporations ever? >> well, i think he began with

what he said yesterday, joe biden. the president is talking about getting tough with tripling the tariffs on chinese goods coming into this country. well, if you live in pennsylvania, not in philadelphia or pittsburgh, if you're out in the state, 67 counties out there where people don't make much money, you're thinking, well, vote republican? i'll vote democrat again because they have to be good to the working man. they have to be tough on trade. it doesn't sound good with the big-time thinking, but to the average worker in pennsylvania, and to his wife or if they're both working, they want to keep their kids near home. one way to do that is fight china. take on china on trade. if china is taking all our jobs in steel and other places, and they are, you have to do something about it. you have to act tough. trump has gone up in pennsylvania and goes to erie and promised that he was going to get tough on china.

he also said i'm not going to touch social security and medicare. he is talking about that now. democrats have to protect the old issues and defend themselves on the new issues. be tough on trade. look at bobby casey, the senator, any democrat in pennsylvania will take that position. you have to be tough on trade and do it really loud and sound tough. i think he is trying to do that. >> eddie, president biden has been critical in years past of donald trump when he talked about tariffs. in this case, he says he is doing it to protect american workers in the steel industry. making the case, again, there's been this dissidents between the way people feel about how the economy is going and the data that shows it is going well, save for inflation, which remains too high. that's at the core of this. yesterday, trying to make the case, here's where we were. here's where i brought us so far. let's keep moving in that direction. >> i think he has to make that case and has to make that case forcefully, just like chris said. he's also having to deal with, i

think, the culture wars question. the issue that is really animating a lot of the working class is that i've lost ground. why? because big government put its thumb on the scale for these other folks, for these folks who are not us. there's a sense that they're losing the country. the country doesn't feel culturally like its mine. i think he has to make this move here, but he also has to understand that the culture wars is actually where the game is actually being played in so many ways. >> it is. but, you know, in pennsylvania, it was really smart for him to go to pennsylvania for three days, you know, while trump is in the court. i do some work for the building and trades union, so i'm steeped in michigan, wisconsin, and pennsylvania. the argument they're making to their members is like, we gave trump a chance. he didn't deliver. you know, there is this sort of cultural issue, in particular, the notion of just blow the whole system up, that really flourishes when democrats have

not delivered. democrats, you know, i mean, labor unions had a really hard time making the argument for 25 years that you can count on democrats to deliver for you, but biden has. trump will take it away, right? that's the second part of the message. biden has done all this, and trump, you know, they say scranton joe and mar-a-lago don, and, you know, i know the white house has been planning that for a while, but it just so happens that he did, in fact, say at mar-a-lago to his billionaire friends that he is going to give them more tax cuts. they will take away all of the gains they have made for apprenticeship requirements, the money for infrastructure, certainly for clean energy. can you move 5% of non-college voters in the three states to go biden's way? that is overwhelming victory in those three states. >> well, and it's exactly what they need to do. they need to do it by talking about the difference, the

contrast between the guy from scranton and the guy who inherited millions from his daddy and lost it, and who is living in mar-a-lago now. he has no idea how working americans live. he's never understand how working americans live. joe biden does understand how working americans live. you can see it when he gets out there on the campaign trail. listen, joe biden has to do two things. if i'm running for office, i like having these two tasks. one, he's got to bring his base home. you have to bring young voters home. he has to bring people of color home, especially men in the numbers he needs. that's one. the second thing is, he just needs to get people to vote their interests. he needs to get people to vote for what's in their best interest. that's the thing. a lot of democratic candidates failed on number two.

joe biden looks like he's doing it in pennsylvania, michigan, and wisconsin. we'll see, mika. let's get to the drama on capitol hill. there was lots yesterday. a shouting match broke out during a house oversight committee hearing yesterday when chairman james comer and ranking member jamie raskin got into an argument about the republican-led effort to impeach president biden. take a look. >> president -- >> what business was the -- what business were the bidens in? >> what -- >> what business did joe biden's family own? what business were they in? did they have hotels, a social media company? did they have golf courses, casinos? did they have office -- >> mr. chairman. >> what business? did they have an energy -- >> mr. chairman, we spent tens of millions of dollars for you pursuing joe biden, and you have not identified -- >> that is a lie. >> -- a single thing. >> that is a lie. >> really? how much have you spent? >> we haven't spent hardly anything. >> it's been for free, okay, all

right. in any event, you know, we get what we paid for. you have nothing on joe biden. >> answer this question. >> what did -- >> what did the bidens do? why did they -- >> can i answer that? >> -- millions and millions of dollars. >> i would like to ask you. >> you start, what did the bidens do? >> i don't know what you're talking about. >> what business were they in? >> let the record show mr. raskins could not answer the question. >> first of all -- >> what did biden do to receive the money. >> i'm raskin. we sat next to each other for over a year. don't add the "s." i'd like my time restored. three, you have not identified a crime. what is the crime you want to impeach joe biden for and keep this nonsense going? what is the crime? tell america right now. >> you're about to find out very soon. >> what is the crime? name it. >> chair recognizes -- >> propaganda experience. >> -- arizona. >> thank you. >> it got so bad.

it got so bad. comer, when he couldn't answer the question, name the crime. name the crime. it got so bad. if we turn the mic up, you would have heard arnold the pig, who is comer's legal counsel say, "screw you guy, i'm going home." he left. it was so embarrassing. >> what a waste of time. >> willie, it is a stupid question, what do the bidens do? what do the bidens do? listen, they're talking about -- what are they talking about? a couple million dollars here, right? they never talked about the $2 billion that jared got from the saudis. never. >> i mean -- >> never talked about that before. he's never been in investment before. he got $2 billion from the saudis. listen, it's not illegal. okay, so it's not illegal. he did it. that's fine. what hunter biden did we've seen

is not illegal. they can't find the crime. his whole, you're going to learn in the future. >> that's old. >> it's crazy. again, the fact that they keep drumming this up, they keep making fools of themselves, even fox news and other right-wing, pro-trump outlets are saying, stop. you're making a fool of yourself. it doesn't stop him from doing it. again, $2 trillion for the trump family. $3 million divided, like, i don't know how many ways. biden didn't even get the $3 million. versus $2 billion. i mean, it's crazy that they're still dragging this out. comer still is okay with making a fool of himself because he can't name a single crime. it's just like mayorkas. no crime.

no misdemeanor. no impeachment. it was all just political garbage. that's the same thing here. political garbage. because they got nothing. every time they tried to confront hunter biden, he makes a fool of them. >> comer and his committee are in so deep now, they can't humiliate themselves by conceding that they have nothing, which is the case. in fact, he's been saying for months and months and months, "no fire yet, but an awful lot of smoke," which is a difference version of what he said yesterday, which is, "you'll find out soon what they did." chris matthews, there is this conflation by using the term "the bidens" or "the biden crime family," as they call it, to bring in the president of the united states for whatever hunter biden may have done. remember, star witnesses in this, we can remind our viewers, have all, to a man, been exposed as frauds. the $5 million bribe, the guy

admitted to be lying about that. another witness is now a fugitive on the run. go down the list. there is nothing here. james comer admits as much. >> you know, this is all tied in with culture and lying. you know, i went out to western pennsylvania this week. fulton county, the most republican county in the state, 85% republican in the last couple elections. adams county is pretty much as close as that. the downtowns are open. there's nobody on the streets anymore. they're at walmart or somewhere, costco or somewhere, at the dollar store. the downtown idea of having a gift shop, for example, there's always a gift shop. well, they're all closed. nobody is on the streets anymore. the ones that are are filled with hostility right now about the democratic party and biden. there is a store i went to in fulton county, which is politically incorrect, which is a little store packed with

anti-biden stuff. all the stuff, the old cliches and nonsense from the right. the reason is there's no newspapers for sale. there's no one to check your facts. if you hear somebody on fox or hear it through the grapevine from the trump crowd, how are they going to check it? this guy says the bidens, who is he talking about? sounds like he is talking about the president. well, he isn't. he isn't talking about the president, but he wants you to think it sounds like the president. so he says over and over again, like an idiot, he kept saying the bidens, the bidens, because he didn't have any many information. he just had those phrases. jamie is one of the smartest guys ever in congress, and he is taking him on. the guy fell back on the fact he didn't have anything on joe biden. after all these months, all the millions of dollars spent, nothing on joe biden. he must have been the cleanest politician in history. i've never seen a guy that's been, you know, frisked like these guys have been frisking biden. they don't have anything on the guy. they've checked his pockets,

gone everywhere. they haven't got anything. this guy is talking about the bidens. willie, you're right, it's a simple use of dishonest language. that's all it is. dishonest language. they aren't the bidens. hunter has his problems, and we know he is facing the courts over it, like his father is directing the courts. that's another one. >> right. >> that biden is directing all the prosecution of his son? give me a break. he's not doing this. >> it's one lie after another lie after another lie after another lie. >> no newspapers. no newspapers to check with. you can't check it anywhere. >> it's a great point. >> by the way, so many people don't want to check. >> that's true. >> they could go on the google machine at home, and they could know the truth in five minutes on any of these lies that they spread. i found personally with my own friends, you know, give them the lie that makes them comfortable.

they'll take that over the truth any day of the week. chris matthews, thank you so much. >> thank you, chris. good to see you. >> thank you. all right. still ahead on "morning joe," impeachment charges against homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas have been dismissed. >> why? >> because -- >> no high crime. no misdemeanor. no nothing. >> big waste of time. >> yeah, more political garbage. >> we'll show you what senate leaders are saying about how that played out. plus, when iran launched retaliatory strikes on israel, a number of countries, including jordan, offered critical assistance. jordan's foreign minister will be our guest to discuss that support. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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i'm here to represent the struggle that has gone on for 300 or more years. a struggle to recognize that citizens in a country in which we were born. i have 40 or 50 years of struggle, ever since i was

called a [ bleep ]. i struck him back. i had to learn, i had to learn that hitting back with my fist, one individual was not enough. it takes organization. it takes dedication. it takes the willingness to stand by and do what has to be done when it has to be done. >> wow. that was ella baker who some call the mother of the civil rights movement, stressing the importance of grassroots organizing, during a speech back in 1974. eddie glaude jr. is back with us with more from his new book entitled "we are the leaders we have been looking for." you focus on the teachings of

ella baker in the book. even watching her there is moving. tell us about her. >> i'm thankful for my residency on "morning joe" with regards to this book. i mean, you guys are family, and i just am full with blessings of being with you. but ms. baker, you know, i reach for mer. we talked about dr. king and malcolm x and, you know, my own sense of manhood. here i am embracing malcolm. i end the book with ella baker because she embraces a notion of democracy that affirms the possibility, the standing of ordinary, everyday people. without her, the modern civil rights movement wouldn't be possible. she was an organizer in the 1940s, a field secretary for the naacp, organizing chapters in the south. she was the first executive director of the sclc, southern christian leadership conference. there's a reason that students who engaged in sit-ins in 1960 had the non-violent organization

at shaw university. it was her alma mater. ordinary, everyday people had to everything they are the leaders they're looking for. indigenous, grassroots folk can actually be the engine of democratic change. her effort is to expand who matters in our democracy. i think she matters today because we're facing forces that are trying to contract who matters in our democracy. i'm lifting her up because she lifts me up as i try to imagine a new way of being in this country. >> she embodies, eddie, so powerfully what this book is all about, which is, we can't always look to the mountaintop, to the leaders. we can't look to the president or the congress. it's got to be us at the end of the day. who better than a granddaughter of slaves in virginia to speak that? how radical, what she was saying was at the time. it seems obvious to most of us now, but what she was calling for way back then. >> i try to read her, not just simply as an organizer or

activist, powerful folk, but i wanted to think about her political theory. i put her in the conversation with philosophers. there is a phrase, politics of tending. it's where the local comes into view. where my concern for you, my fellow feeling, my relationship to you, i want to tend to the practices, look at the rough hands from toiling in the soil, your eyes are red from too much to drink, i want to sit with you because you're having a sense of joy in the way you live. or that blank stare which suggests you've experienced something in life that's knocked you on your behind, right? the politics that enters there because i have a concern for you. in this moment, willie and jen, we've lost a sense of mutuality. we're all in our silos. we only care about our own tribe. i think her politics forces us

to reach out because that's the only way america can -- >> i was drawn to the politics of trending, particularly from a woman, the matriarch thought of, yes, you have your voices and you're powerful in your own ways, but we need to tend to each other, to lift each other up, so that you are able to do the kind of work you can do. do you see that happening today, or, you know, can you apply the lessons to modern day? >> that's what we want, jen. we see it in some organizing settings, but part of what i'm trying to do with this book is to encourage the nation to embrace it. what we need in this moment is not declarations of being post idealogical or post partisan. we need a coalition of the decent. >> yeah. >> a coalition of the decent that has the values of love and care, right, and embrace and vulnerability, right, and dekren

decency at its heart. the coalition of the decent, i think, at its root, has a sense -- how can i put this? ralph ellison said democracy at its best is a disinterested form of love. i don't have to know you to wish for you to be able to fulfill your dreams. right? a coalition of the decent, where we can build a country from the bottom-up, where everybody cannot only dream dreams but make the dreams a reality. no matter your color, no matter your gender, zip code, no matter your ability or who you love. >> coalition of the decent, which allows us to love and respect each other even if we disagree on so many issues. we find the issues where we can come together and join and support each other. when we aren't there, eddie, we talk it out and learn from each other. that doesn't mean that you

change what you believe or i change what i believe, but it rounds it out. you know, jesus talked about the need of loving your neighbor, right? his disciples said, okay, but who is my neighbor? that's when he told the story of the good samaritan. he picked the samaritan because they were hated. >> mm-hmm. >> they were the enemy. they would be to the united states sort of like the iran for that area. jesus said, your neighbor is the person that you consider your neighbor but also your enemy. you have to find common purpose with them. that's why when we talk about accepting, mike johnson today, thank you, mike johnson, for standing right. i'm not going to sit here and go, yeah, but you did this, this, this, this, this. that time will come if it needs to come.

right now, we found an issue that we can agree on, so we lift that person up. we look for opportunities to come together. like you said, we form a coalition of the decent, of people who want this democracy to thrive, people who, once again, want leaders that are respectful of each other, that can talk to each other, that can get things done, because at the bottom of it all, they are in a coalition of the decent. >> that's absolutely right, joe. there's this wonderful line that i got out of james baldwin's work as i was studying with him. you know, he's talking about, you know, how hatred gums us up. how we retreat into our silos. he says, you know, salvation is not found in that tricky magic, where you need the quote, unquote, illegal human being. who is illegal? or if you need the n-words or f-words, or to put women back in their place, as it were, quote,

unquote. salvation is found in the going towards. in the going towards another. into taking that imaginative leap to see the beauty of the human being right in front of you and trying to build a life of meaning and significance and purpose. the moral question is always at the heart of our politics, it seems to me. the moral question, joe, is at the heart of the coalition of the decent. what kind of human being do you aspire to be? what human being are you? what's the relationship between the two? >> such a great book for the moment that we're in right now as a nation. eddie's book, "we are the leaders we have been looking for," is on sale. eddie will stay with us. coming up, we're getting some insight on the issues driving young voters ahead of the november election. john della volpe joins us with brand-new reporting on that. that's next on "morning joe."

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a just released poll of younger americans shows president biden leading donald trump among registered likely voters. the harvard youth poll shows biden ahead by eight points with americans under 30. among likely voters, biden's

lead expands to 19 points. the poll also finds broad support for a permanent cease-fire in the israel/hamas war. economic concerns remain top of mind for younger voters, and confidence in public institutions continues to decline. joining us now, john della volpe, director of polling at the institute of politics at harvard university. good to have you back on the show. just pull back on the macro, if you could, and tell us who is polled. what were you overall looking for? >> sure. thanks so much for having me again, mika. we talked to 2,010 young americans between the ages of 18 and 29. it was a probability-based sample, including an equal chance of all young americans, regardless of where they lift in the 50 states, to be incorporated into the survey. we've been doing this for 24 years. it is the 47th edition of the survey. >> all right. i'm just looking at the top line here. the first poll we're going to

look at is biden versus trump among young voters. how do the candidates fair? >> yeah, mika, if i take a small step back, the thing about this survey, the thing about those numbers is, from the beginning to the end of the survey, we saw massive, seismic mood swings, i'd say. we saw several indications that younger people, as we know, they're angry, they're stressed, they think the country, in large part, is headed in the wrong direction. they're concerned about the situation in israel. concerned about the economy, cost of living, inflation. at the end of the day, you can see that in the numbers, they're voting for joe biden. right now, it's not close. there's been a myth, i think, over the last several weeks, last several months in polling, that donald trump is making significant in roads here. i'm not sure i'm seeing that. he is pretty consistent, this 37% level right now, whether it's among all voters, registered or likely. >> yeah. then, you know, that looks good for biden, but then these next

couple of poll questions and answers, they show maybe potentially some problems for the sitting president. young voters overwhelmingly support a cease-fire in gaza, with the ongoing problem in israel with the israel/gaza war. is that risky for the president? >> well, listen, what younger people have said from the very beginning of this conflict, mika, is they want peace. we can see overwhelming support for a permanent cease-fire, 5-1. every single demographic group, including younger republicans, support a permanent cease-fire. to me, another important thread of this series of questions -- and, by the way, i think the reason these questions remain so relevant today is they're not -- i didn't write a lot of these questions. these are the questions that younger people are asking of other younger people, undergraduate students. what we found was younger people, yes, they clearly want

peace. they clearly want this to end, but they also see the humanity. they have sympathy for both the palestinian people as well as the israeli people. they don't necessarily feel the same way about the governments and leaders. there is a big disconnect. i think the message is they want it to stop, and they have sympathy for both sets of people. >> john, let's look ahead to the next poll which is reflective of broader polling on the right track/wrong track. nearly 60% of young americans believe the country is off on the wrong track. only 9% say things generally are headed in the right direction. 32% saying they are unsure. what all goes into those numbers? >> i think, willie, that's what happens after 20 years, 15 years of chaos in this country. from these young people who were born in the aftermath of 9/11, through the recession, through school shootings, opioids, climate, white nationalism, the death of george floyd, continued

chaos, they're angry. they're concerned. i don't blame them. they don't feel like their parents, their politicians, their parties really get them and understand. again, it's not a direct correlation between that and the sitting president. if it were, biden would be in a much -- he'd be in a significant hole right now. instead, among likely voters, he is winning by, i think, 19 points. >> let's look at specific issues that concern young voters. top of the list, just like broadly for americans, inflation, health care, housing, gun violence, jobs. really three of the top five fall under the economy. that is, obviously, top of mind. it is very expensive right now for a lot of people to live in this country, especially for young people starting out. >> yes. i think that is one of the lessons i've taken away from the focus groups and the town halls. my students and i spent a weekend, three days in michigan recently. hearing kind of the stress, not just about the day-to-day cost of living, but the concern they

may never afford a home, the concern that they do what they're told to do, go to college and they're still concerned about having debt for decades later. this is a real concern. the housing concerns, we talked a year ago in this poll, on this show, where we talked about a 40% or so of young people are concerned that one day, they could be without a home, could be homeless. these are real economic concerns. i think the economy is certainly doing better for people of my age and of older generations. our younger people, day-to-day, it is impacting them in ways in which we may not fully understand or appreciate from the lens of politics. >> john, there's sort of a bonkers gender gap in here. biden leads trump among young men by six points. his lead by young women is 33 points. i'm not surprised how young women feel about trump versus biden, but what do you think is going on? what should we take away, if there's more insight you have about the relatively low number

for young men and the divide? >> yeah, thanks. that's one of the other lessons from the poll, right? there's two sizes. there's small and extra large. the gender gap on the female side is extra large. president biden has held that coalition of younger women by 33, 35 points. same as it was. there's a clear drop of support among younger men. younger men of color, younger men who are white, urban, suburban, et cetera. what we need to do, jen, is appreciate that these are mostly first-time voters. the first time that trump came onto the public's sphere, there were 11, 12, 13-year-olds. by the time they're in high school, we had covid, and they were locked in their rooms, missing important life events. i think they largely blame that on democrats. i don't think the economy has been kind to them recently. while they are not supportive of biden at this point, i think there is -- i think it is going to be critical, critical for

democrats to reach its constituency, listen and understand where their pain and angst and concerns are coming from. >> finally, john, how young people look and their attitudes toward political engagement. tell us what you've found. >> i think this is really good news, mika. i was on the show, you know, last semester when we released this. i was concerned about the number of young people interested in turning out to vote. the thing that makes me most confident about turnout are these three questions about attitudes. do young people believe that political engagement can make a difference? do they see a difference between the parties? when those numbers turn more positive, we can see larger numbers of people turning out. that's what we saw. similar effect to what we saw in 2020. currently, it could change, but, currently, as we get closer, people are tuning in. right now, just about as many young people say they will vote in '24 as voted in '20. we know that was a record turnout. >> democrats are calling for another record, hoping that

they'll turn out for the president. director of polling at the institute of politics at harvard university, john della volpe. thanks so much, as always, for bringing the numbers. fascinating. eddie, the overall head-to-head spread among the 18 to 29-year-olds, young voters, almost 29 points in favor of joe biden. when you dig into the numbers, they remain skeptical, remain uncertain of their own futures. >> that skepticism and the uncertainty is a kind of generalized sensibility, right? it's the context in which they came of age, right? i think the key point is what we just talked about, turnout. remember, it's those young folk that made wisconsin possible in 2022. we've got to make sure they get out in large numbers if we're going to save democracy in this election. >> all right. eddie, thanks for being on this morning. still ahead, we'll take a look at some of the stories making front page headlines across the country, including a scapegoat for embattled senator bob menendez. we'll tell you who he might be trying to pin the blame on in his bribery case. plus, president biden

secures an endorsement from the family of late former president robert f. kennedy. his daughter, kerry kennedy, joins us to talk about that as biden wraps up his three-day swing across pennsylvania. also ahead, speaker mike johnson unveils his four-part proposal to send aid to israel, ukraine, and taiwan. a member of the foreign relations committee, democratic senator chris coons, will weigh in on the legislation. "morning joe" will be right back.

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53 past the hour. time now for a look at morning papers. "the chicago tribune" has a look at the construction struggles that are delaying the overhaul of the o'hare international airport. the paper compares the rebuild to the $8 billion makeover of laguardia with one transformation official saying an independent agency might be better equipped to handle the large-scale project rather than a city department. in new jersey, the record is highlighting newly unsealed court filings that indicate senator bob menendez may try to blame his legal troubles on his wife. the couple has pleaded not

guilty to charges they participated in a bribery scheme in which they say cash and gold bars were given in return for the senator carrying out political favors. according to two of the files, menendez who will be tried separately from his wife will try to show she has, quote, held information from him, or led him to believe nothing unlawful was taking place. the trial is expected to begin may 6th. in utah, "the daily herald" reports the film festival in park city held for nearly 40 years is exploring potential new host cities. according to the sundance institute, their contract with park city is coming to an end. they plan to work with local leaders to try to keep the festival in the state. and in california, "the sacramento bee" reports the

anaheim city council has approved disney land's multimillion dollar expansion plan. the park will not make any major changes since the 1990s to build new attractions to shops, hotels, and restaurants. disney has promised to invest almost $2 billion into the plan. coming up, donald trump's former attorney general spent the better part of last year harshly criticizing his old boss. >> it is a horror show when he's, you know, when he's left to his own devices, and so you may want his policies, but trump will not deliver trump policies. he will deliver chaos. >> he knew that the claims of a stolen election were false and yet he decided he was going to try to stay in office by subverting that process. there was very grave wrongdoing here, and i think it's reasonable to say that it falls within the obstruction of a

proceeding. >> our country, you know, can't be a therapy session for, you know, a troubled man like this. he is a consummate narcissist. he will always put his own interests and gratifying his own ego ahead of everything else including the country's interests. >> well, last year's bill barr, meet this year's bill barr. you'll never believe who he's now supporting for president. that's ahead on "morning joe." we'll be right back. ack. ly trieg with it, everybody. now i sleep with inspire. inspire? no mask? no hose? just sleep. learn more, and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com ( ♪ ♪ ) start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand.

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momentum is building to oust johnson from his house speakership, but johnson's not going down without a fight, folks. he went on fox business overnight, folks, to remind republicans that he has the backing of the republicans' dear leader. >> i spent hours with the president on friday. he's 100% with me. >> well, that settles it. trump is 100% with him. isn't that right, sir? >> are you going to protect speaker johnson? >> well, we'll see what happens with that. >> that is a dose of classic trump loyalty. he's got your back so he can push you under a bus. >> speaker mike johnson pushing forward with a series of foreign aid bills despite growing pushback within his party. how much will he need to lean on democrats to get the funding passed, and will it cost him the speakership? plus, the senate dismisses the articles of impeachment

against homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas. >> very quickly. >> that was fast. we'll show you how things played out on capitol hill, and why mitch mcconnell said it was not a proud day in the history of the senate. >> huh. and what to expect today when jury selection picks up again in former president trump's hush money trial. they went pretty fast in the first couple of days. already have seven jurors seated. >> trump saying they're moving too fast. >> oh, they're rushing it. okay. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, april 18th. along with joe, willie and me, we have former white house director of communications to president obama, jennifer palmieri. she's host of "how to win 2024," chief white house correspondent for the "new york times," peter baker is with us this morning, and msnbc contributor and author of the book "how the right lost its find," charlie sykes is with us this morning. we have so much to get to.

>> we've got a lot to talk about, and we're going to talk about speaker johnson and ukraine. i must say he has had a conversion. you know, it's like "a christmas carol" that the ghost of the republican party past came to visit him in the middle of the night and said to him, well, and he said, yes, sir. >> no. i think it's -- >> no, listen. what do i say about conversion? >> i'll take them. >> i'm a baptist. we love deathbed conversions. we love midlife conversions. if you want to convert, just as i am. well, okay. we'll take speaker johnson who sounds like ronald reagan, and i will say in defense of some of the leaders in that house gop, like some of those leaders that were on important committees. some of them were actually concerned about china. >> right.

>> iran, and russia. >> and this might literally be a political deathbed conversion for mike johnson as the threats to his job continue from that faction, but joe, speaker johnson invoked ronald reagan's name, finally said it out loud. it's something we have been talking about for months now on this show. the party of ronald reagan turning its back on ukraine in a fight against russia. speaker johnson said yesterday, i'm a child of the '80s. i'm a child of the reagan era. we have to do what's right here. we have to give ukraine what it needs. where was that over the last couple of months? unclear, but he's come around. the question will be, have enough other republicans come around to that position to clear this funding and get it to ukraine perhaps as early as saturday night when speaker johnson says there will be a vote? >> hopefully democrats step up. >> maybe he'll go to the floor, and maybe he'll say -- >> listen. >> -- mtg, tear down that wall. there are so many options now. >> yeah.

there's a lot to say. >> he can borrow so much from ronald reagan. >> yes, he can. he appears to be doing so. >> yeah, and i will say that, you know, reagan always figured out how to be conservative ideologically, but he'd compromise, but moderate temperamentally, and i think ronald reagan would be shaking his head right now if he saw what was happening in the state of arizona where you actually had republicans going back to 1864 for a ban that actually allows, well, forces young rape victims and young incest victims from phoenix, from maricopa county, from tucson, from across the state, if they're raped by an uncle, or if they're raped well, like in the ohio case, by an illegal immigrant, then the

state is going to have a forced birth for that 11-year-old or 10-year-old or 12-year-old. it's happening -- it happens across america, and this is what the republicans in arizona are forcing on their people. >> yeah. >> on their women, on their children. >> makes sense since the guy who came up with the law raped children, and forced them to have his children. >> yeah. >> arizona, you've done it again. for the second time in two weeks, republicans in arizona state legislature have rejected an attempt to repeal a near-total abortion ban from 1864. >> people, willie, are running into a burning house and they're saying, hey! we've got an exit. you can run out the back door and not be engulfed in flames, and come with us. >> you can save all these women. >> no, we're fine. we're fine. we're going to keep them in the house. >> let them burn. >> let it burn down. but you can go out the back door. this is the second time now that

democrats have tried to save republicans from their own worst 1864 instincts, and what do they do, willie? they two, nope. we're good. we want to stick with the 1864 law. >> yeah. i mean, even if you hold the reprehensible view that somebody who is raped must deliver the baby because you said so, do it for the politics. how about that? do it for cynical political reasons that most people in your state think this is appalling and yet you're standing by it. only two republicans joined all democrats on the vote to repeal the civil war-era ban. house republicans later voted to adjourn until next week. they did this last week as well, leaving a path for repeal of this bill unclear. democrats in the statehouse blasted their republican colleagues. >> the message for today is clear, arizona republicans voted not once, but twice to uphold the draconian 1864 abortion ban

that includes absolutely no exceptions for rape and no exceptions for incest. our voices may not have been heard today, but let us be clear. we will be heard in november. >> so jen, the republicans in arizona keep running back this playbook. they did it last week where they didn't want to take a vote on it. >> yeah. >> so they're just going to dismiss themselves, adjourn for a week and do what? i don't know, because they came back after a week this time and did the same thing all over again. again, only two republicans in the arizona house voted to repeal a law that would force a woman who was raped or was a victim of incest to deliver the baby. >> yeah, and if democrats were being political, they could have voted against it too. they could have said, republicans made this mess and let them deal with it. let's just pass something on the state ballot initiative and not give them a lifeline, but i have, you know, two takeaways from this. one is just how destructive donald trump's presidency has been, right? just how destructive this has been for women, and when republicans are in charge, they

will take the most extreme position when it comes to, you know, women's rights on the state level, and, you know, trump, you know, he's trying to say that he said arizona will overturn this. well, they didn't, right? you leave it to the states. we've left it to the states and this is what has happened. he may be trying to moderate the position, but this is what he's done. he's taken away the rights that women have. >> and brags about it. >> he said it was incredible, amazing and people were happy. one of the representatives part of this debate yesterday, when a republican said -- talked about how, you know, pregnancies don't have to be picture-perfect, meaning, you know -- >> what? >> suggesting it's okay if pregnancies come about by rape or incest. they don't need to be picture-perfect in order for a woman to need to have that child. >> oh my god. i'm just -- >> the hypocrisy of that, of course. they say that and generally if it comes into their own home, or if it happens in their own home,

if their 10-year-old daughter were raped by an illegal immigrant, they would be the first to say, okay. we're going to take care of that. they would be the first. so the hypocrisy is just staggering, and, you know, charlie sykes, jen is right. donald trump has been just absolutely terrible and destructive for the rights of women, for the rights of rape victims, for the rights of incest victims, and you move it to politics, so destructive, and we've said this before because we're really kind people, and we're trying to help republicans. we're trying to help them find their way back to where they can actually win an election once in a while. they just won't listen. they just keep losing, and you live in a state where this is -- again, i think it's one of the great examples. we're talking about kansas. we're talking about kentucky for a good reason, but i keep going back to that wisconsin supreme court election that should have been -- >> alarming --. >> -- a slugfest, but it was a

wipeout. why? because they were clinging to a 150-year-old abortion ban, and it cost them the supreme court in wisconsin. and they don't care. >> yeah. well, it did, and you see this in one state after another. the politics here are absolutely fascinating. you have donald trump who asked if he thought he was going to neutralize this issue, and kind of throws the pro-life movement under the bus even though he's responsible for roe versus wade being overturned. kari lake flip-flops on the issue, and as you point out, in arizona, they have a law on the books that probably has the support of less than 10% of the electorate. they have an easy way out, and they've chosen not to do it, and so you see this dynamic here where at the very moment, republicans are saying, hey. can we moderate our position on this? is there some sort of an off ramp? the arizona republican party is basically saying, no. we're completely comfortable

with this even though it's probably going to cost them -- control the legislature, cost them the, you know, u.s. senate seat, and probably is going to tip arizona over in the presidential election, but this is one of the, you know, again, part of what makes this fascinating is kind of the trick box that donald trump has put republicans in where he says, okay, you know, i am the pro-life president. we have overturned roe versus wade, but it's completely now up to the states. states' rights, except look at what the states are doing. so while he's trying to sound moderate, he owns every one of these extreme draconian laws, and republicans are not backing off, but it was an amazing scene in arizona. >> unbelievable. >> i just don't understand why the women of arizona are going to have to go through the process of showing politicians what these abortion bans will mean to their lives, and when you mention rape victims, incest victims, people with fetal

abnormalities, and that's a lot of people, but women who just want regular health care who might need a d and c, who might need an abortion-like procedure won't get them. it's going to have an incredible impact on women across the state of arizona if this ban stays in effect as extreme as it is. >> by the way, we're still waiting to see. we're so concerned because clarence thomas, of course, in overturning roe v. wade wrote in a concurring opinion that we have to look at not only things like same-sex marriage, also have to look at the right to contraception. >> right. >> right? then you have ivf in alabama, the senate and in washington, the u.s. senate, republicans are blocking an attempt to make ivf protected. so again, this is impacting women's health care, and for women who consider themselves to be pro-life who are miscarry

and -- yeah. it's -- >> exactly. >> it's really terrible. coming up in just one minute, the very latest from capitol hill where house speaker johnson is pushing ahead on foreign aid bills despite threats from his own party. "morning joe" is back in 60 seconds. "morning joe" is back in 60 seconds

>> tech: at safelite, we'll take care of fixing your windshield. but did you know we can take care of your insurance claim? that means less stress for you. >> woman: thanks. >> tech: my pleasure. have a good one. >> woman: you too. >> tech: schedule today at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ ♪♪ last night, speaker mike johnson released the details of his proposed foreign aid package which includes four separate bills. one is roughly $61 billion for ukraine. another provides $26 billion for israel. the third is $8 billion for the indo-pacific allies, and the fourth is aimed at combatting u.s. adversaries. the fight now heads to the rules committee this morning where speaker johnson will likely need democrats to support the measure after several republicans said they would vote against them.

democrats appear to have declined to approve the package after democrats gave their full support yet. >> they're going to vote against the package because, again, as leaders of their top committees are saying, republicans are saying about other republicans, they're dupes. it's maybe even worse, or useful idiots or even worse, they're parodying vladimir putin's talking points. they're parroting the talking points of russian invaders. that's happening in the united states congress. >> yeah. >> so yeah, they're going to push back on any attempt to find freedom fighters. >> and despite the threats from his republican colleagues, johnson is pushing forward. >> we're going to stand for freedom and make sure that vladimir putin doesn't march through europe. we're an exceptional nation. we're the greatest nation on the planet, and we have to act like it, and we have to project to putin and xi and iran and north korea and anybody else that we will defend freedom. it doesn't mean boots on the ground. we're not the world's policemen,

but we're going to do the right thing and i think america is going to take an important stand here. >> are you going to have to rely on democrats to pass the rule in order to bring these bills to the floor, and also the legislation itself? >> well, i hope not. i hope that our republican colleagues will stand together, stick together on this. i think -- we understand, look. i'm a child of the '80s. i'm regarding myself as a reagan republican. i understand the concept of maintaining peace through strength. that's one of our guiding principles. it's a really important philosophy, and it's a big part of our party and our world view, and i think here is an opportunity to make that stand at a really critical time in world history. >> i mean, this is like a movie for me. i went to sleep last night, and we were living in the age of trump, and i woke up this morning, and now we're in the age of reagan again. listen to this. peace through strength, huh. >> that sounds good. >> and, you know, a couple of days ago, i kind of got heated

up about how republicans hate on america so much. >> mm-hmm. >> they were talking about how horrible america is, and i said america is the greatest country in the world. they need to start saying it. the speaker said, we're the greatest nation in the world. we don't hear this from republicans. we certainly don't hear that we have to actually fund people who are fighting against russian aggression much these days except for, again, those responsible leaders, whether you're talking about chairman of the intel committee or the chairman of the foreign affairs committee, people who are actually talking like grown-ups, but i've got to say, give credit where credit is due, and credit is definitely due with speaker johnson talking like a reagan republican, talking about the need to protect freedom in this fight that -- between western democracy and what's going on in russia. peter baker, maybe you can help -- help us out here. i'm absolutely fascinated by the relationship with mike johnson

and joe biden because i know so little about it, but i hear from time to time, they talk to each other. they talked, i guess, a couple of days ago when this package came out. president biden was extraordinarily optimistic about it. hey, i'm strongly supportive of this. it sounds like they had a talk. tell me about this relationship and how we got from speaker johnson being -- his foreign policy being shaped by marjorie taylor greene of dalton, georgia, a town i love, and how it went from that to being shaped by ronald wilson reagan. >> yeah. so i think president biden -- you're right to say he doesn't really have a relationship with speaker johnson. they've spoken a number of times, but not very much and not very long. they didn't know each other obviously before johnson became speaker. you know, but the president understands better than most how congress works and he understands that you can't get

something to the floor if you're not able to command your own majority. so he has some sympathy, i think, for the problem that speaker johnson has, but he doesn't trust that speaker johnson is going to necessarily deliver. for speaker johnson, they have wanted to make the case that biden is weak. that's what they came off of last weekend's iranian attack. they tried to make the case it only happened because president biden was weak and didn't deter iran. it's hard to make the case about biden being weak if you are not supporting israel yourself with the funding that they have asked for, or not to mention the ukrainians with the funding that they've asked for. the ukrainians are in desperate straits. they're out of ammunition in a lot of cases and and they're looking at a situation where they were on the cusp of winning and they could be losing all because they don't have the resources that they had been promised for really the last 16, 17 months since this congress took office. the president has been very patient with him, but there's sort of a moment of truth

arriving at this point, and i think the president will be watching to see whether speaker johnson can pull it off. >> you know, it's fascinating, peter, you have republicans that are still running around complaining about the border. yet they killed the strongest border policy bill ever because donald trump told them to. they complained that joe biden is weak, and yet they won't provide funding for taiwan, ukraine, or israel. now it looks like they may be doing that. do you sense that perhaps -- and i have been waiting for the influence of chairman mccaul and chairman turner and some of these other reagan republicans that are running these committees. do you think that over time their influence, their pull may have been too much for speaker johnson to ignore, or did he decide that it was in his best interest to use them? so, you know, republicans won't be accused of not only botching a border deal, but also

losing -- possible losing ukraine to vladimir putin. >> yeah. that's a good question. i can't get into his head. i'm not a congressional reporter, but i do think that you're right to say that, you know, the establishment part of the republican party that traditionally believes in peace through strength, the reagan slogan, has finally lost its patience with the far-right of the party which has been blocking this for so long. they realize that they look bad publicly, that they're taking away an issue that they could have against president biden. you know, the essence of the case that they want to make against president biden on foreign policy is one of weakness. they want to go back to the afghanistan withdrawal. again, it's really hard to make that case if you yourself are the ones holding up the aid. you can't say they're going to complain, and say, gosh, he didn't give the right weapons to ukraine, which is a completely legitimate argument that people have made including only democrats against president biden, when you are not willing to provide any kind of aid whatsoever to them.

so i think the politics of this have just finally come around where he felt the pressure to move forward. he can only afford to lose two votes because of vacancies in the house. it's the slimmest majority he could possibly have, and he'll have to rely on democrats. he could stay a speaker, but if you are a speaker who relies on democrats, that's a position of weakness in your own party. no republican speaker wants to be speaker because democrats saved him, and that's a prescription for a lot of real churning volatility going forward. >> and add to that intrigue that mike gallagher, the republican from wisconsin is scheduled to leave his job. he's stepping down on friday, the day before a planned vote. maybe he'll stick around. let's bring into the conversation, msnbc news correspondent ali vitali. let's talk about this change in rhetoric, change in tone, perhaps even change in policy

from speaker johnson. why did he come around? >> chairman mccaul is all over this legislation. he's the sponsor of the repo act which is one of the key planks of the fourth bill about combatting foreigned a ver sars. that's one plank of this piece of this legislation that we've seen. i think that as speaker, johnson has been a different person than he was as just a member of this republican conference, though it has been striking to see, and i think this week especially it came into really clear focus with the ways that he's basically challenging his conference at various points to say, hey. this isn't important enough that i'm not going to worry about losing my job over it, though certainly that is a worry or concern, if not from johnson explicitly, but from rank and file republicans who do not want to spend the spring finding another speaker. i candidly don't even know who would want that job at this

point, but it would be a real problem for them to have to find somebody else. so we are watching that closely, but i think when you look at the landscape writ large on this legislation, it's important to point out that it's the same, same, but different in the supplemental, but the reason that you're seeing democrats speak in support of this is because the numbers are largely the same for ukraine, for the indo-pacific, and for israel. it's that fourth bill that's going to be interesting here because it has a lot of things in it, and congressman jake oppenclause and i were talking about this. things like the tiktok bill that would force bytedance to change ownership. the fact that we have senator cantwell saying she likes the changes in the legislation, could only change this. the fact it has the repo act in it that we were talking about it, there's going to be a border

provision in there, and that's what democrats are looking for. by and large, this is something that can be passed in bipartisan fashion even if it's a different vehicle for doing it than the senate supplemental. >> speaker johnson suggests he could have a final vote with a passage on this supplemental bill on friday night, but before he gets to that, he has to clear the rules committee where republicans have said they won't support it so he may have to reach out to democrats just to clear the rules committee to vote. how does that play out? >> it's just really rare. i know the rules committee feels like this arcane piece of congress, but it's a vehicle and the committee that gets things to the house floor. typically for a -- the party and the majority to have to use members of the other party to pass a rule is really rare, and it's absolutely stunning that could be the position that speaker johnson is in on this piece of foreign aid legislation. he has several people including chip roy and tom massey who are

on the rules committee who have openly said that they are questioning whether or not they're going to vote for this rule. we're going to watch that very closely this morning. if democrats come along and come together on this, yes, that gets them to the house floor, but then the full house has to vote on the rule, and the way you can think about the rule is like they're the bouncer to the bar of the legislation is the best way for us to put it at this point. you can't get into the bar without going through the bouncer and so the full house has to work on actually passing this before they can vote on each of these four pieces of legislation. that's going to be really important too. >> all right. good updates. still ahead on "morning joe," despite his past criticisms of donald trump, former attorney general bill barr now appears to be effectively endorsing him. >> shocked. shocked. >> "morning joe" is coming right back. shocked. >> "morning joe" is coming right back liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great.

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♪♪ we have another aboutface from a trump ally-turned critic. very harsh critic. despite saying that a second trump term would be, quote, chaos. >> chaos. >> and let me just say this gripely, a horror show. >> you're not saying this. >> i'm not. >> who's saying this? >> bill barr. >> that's right. he said it would be a nightmare. >> a nightmare and a horror show. a nightmare. >> i'm sure he's going to be campaigning for president biden to try to stop this from happening? >> to try to avoid a horror show. >> who wants chaos and a horror show in the white house? >> so former attorney general bill barr now says he plans to vote for donald trump in november. >> what? wait, but -- >> do these guys know that -- >> i don't understand. >> anyhow, in a fox news

interview yesterday, barr was asked about this year's general election choices. here's what he had to say. >> given two bad choices, i think it's my duty to pick the person who i think would do the least damage to the country, and i will vote the republican ticket. i'll support the republican ticket. the danger to democracy is the progressive agenda, and while trump -- and i said trump may be playing russian roulette, but a continuation of the biden administration is national suicide in my opinion. >> barr just the latest in a long line of republicans who found the courage to stand up to donald trump only to then come crawling back again. take a look. >> we're tired of the donald trump drama. we want real republican drama. donald trump's not a republican. you want real republican drama. >> if he's off the teleprompter, he can barely keep a cogent thought.

>> you support him for president even though he believe he's lying about the last election. you support him for president even if he's convicted in the manhattan case. i just want to say, the answer to that is yes, correct? >> yeah, me and 51% of america. >> he's a race-baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot. he doesn't represent my party. >> i'm for donald trump because i know what i'm going to get. we need somebody that on day one, can get this country back on track. please help president trump. if you can afford 5 or 10 bucks, if you can't afford a dollar, fine. just pray. if you got any money to give, give it. >> there is no way we're going to allow a con artist to take over the conservative movement, and donald trump is a con artist. >> you said you would be honored to be offered a spot on his ticket, really? >> i think anybody who is offered a spot on this ticket, is an honor. >> i am worried. i'm very concerned about having

him in charge of the nuclear weapons because i think his response, his visceral response to attack people on their appearance, short, tall, fat, ugly. my goodness. that happened in junior high. are we not way above that? would we all be worried to have someone like that in charge? >> i'm proud of the job donald trump did as president. i don't always agree with him, but our occasional policy differences are far outweighed by our significant agreements, but more importantly, an agreement is his accomplishment. president trump gets things done. >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. he should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. >> can he count on your support? >> yes. >> that's an endorsement. >> i will support the president. i will support president trump. >> would you be willing to serve in a trump cabinet? >> in the right position. if i'm the best person for the job, yes. >> i don't want to claim this

guy. donald trump, if we're going to be honest, is a progressive. he supports imminent domain. he supported tax increases before. he's donated $300,000 to democratic candidates. the fact that the republican party is now having to claim him is both unfortunate and to me, inauthentic. >> i want my daughter to grow up in president donald j. trump's america. >> oh my goodness. kayleigh mcenany there who became the white house press secretary after all of her criticism. i mean, jen, you just -- joe and i talk about this a lot, but how do those people look themselves in the mirror as their souls escape their bodies through their mouths when they make this conversion? this all started with bill barr. he's been extraordinarily critical of donald trump in the last couple of years, calling the attempt to overturn the election a grotesque embarrassment, saying a vote for donald trump is like playing russian roulette with the country. he has been supportive of the

doj in its pursuit of these trials against donald trump saying there's no weaponization. this is the department of justice doing its job. he was impressed by jack smith's indictment and famously said, if half of what's true in the indictment in the classified documents case is true, donald trump is, quote, toast, and yet here he is saying, he's got my vote. >> i am shocked. you know, it's like, oh, we shouldn't be shocked. it's like the least surprising thing ever, is of course, bill barr comes back around and supports trump, but i really thought given all of the cabinet that has walked away from him, which is historic in its own right, i really thought that bill barr would actually -- would not support him this time pitch thought we could could want on that. poor willie had to live through all my gestations and outrage and watching that last clip of all of these cowards that eventually went his way, and i will never understand this. willie, i will never understand this. i will never understand. it's not that great being relevant, you know? >> yeah. >> it's not -- i will never

understand how it is worth it to them, and it's interesting when you contrast that to what is happening with mike johnson who seems to have really taken to -- taken hold on him that he is the speaker of the united states house of representatives. you know, that meeting he had with president biden and mitch mcconnell, and hakeem jeffries and chuck schumer, and vice president harris. they really gave him the business about, i'm not sure if you understand what we're doing here, but we're the united states of america and we stand up to russia when they're being adversarial in this way. speaking of russia, we'll speak with the senator in charge of the foreign relations committee. chris coons will be on "morning joe" when we come right back. " joe" when we come right back

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coming up, our next guest is endorsing president biden for a second term, rejecting her own brother's candidacy. kerry kennedy is our guest next on "morning joe." on "morning jo. (psst! psst!) ahhh! with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily gives you long lasting non-drowsy relief. flonase all good.

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i am announcing today, my candidacy for the presidency of the united states. i do not run for the presidency merely to oppose any man, but to propose new policies. i run because i am convinced that this country is on a perilous course, and because i have such strong feelings about what must be done, and i feel that i'm obliged to do all that i can. >> that was then-senator robert f. kennedy, announcing his 1968

presidential campaign. in the decades since, kennedy in that speech had served as inspiration for future leaders including president biden and so much of bobby kennedy's life has inspired me. i've long said even when i was a conservative republican that it was what bobby kennedy did on june 6, 1966, in south africa. it's what he did on april the 4th, 1968 in indianapolis. it's what he did throughout his entire life that made me believe regardless of ideology, regardless of background, that we americans could bend history for the better, and that's what he talked about in south africa, how people coming together could bend history.

such an inspiration to so many people. let's bring in right now, the senator's daughter, human rights activist, kerry kennedy. thanks so much for being with us. we so greatly appreciate it, and so greatly appreciate the work that you do year in and year out. i understand that you're going to be making an endorsement later in the day in philadelphia. tell me about it. >> well, first of all, joe, thank you so much for showing that clip, and for your years and years and years of support of everything that we do, and your such kind and your kind an heartfelt warm thoughts. we're here in philadelphia with my siblings and i'm representing

my first cousins, all of whom with the exception of two, all who are supporting joe biden for reelection. we're doing that because we feel that the stakes are so high. you just showed that clip of daddy in which he said, i cannot stand aside. we cannot stand aside when we're up against a man who says he wants to be a dictator on day one, who says he's going to change the constitution so he can go after his enemies, who's cozied up to dictators. we need to stop this man. we need to stop trump and we need to elect joe biden, who has always stood with the middle class, who has brought us over 14 million new jobs, 800,000

manufacturing jobs, and who cares about the middle class and works class in america. >> keri, as somebody who never knew your father but learned about him and read about him, somebody that knows bobby junior. i've always liked bobby junior, but it is so jarring to me as an outsider to see somebody carrying your father's name, who is a hero of millions, but to see him running the campaign he's running and having donald trump's biggest supporters support him too in an election that's a zero sum game. it's about democracy. it's about diversity.

it's about equality. it's about america moving towards being that more perfect union that you fight for every day. i have to ask what does it do to you to see his campaign out there and the rest of your family? >> you put your finger right on it, joe. this is a campaign about democracy. it is about freedom. it is about the people of america, not only our country but all around the world. that's why it's so important for every single person to come out and vote. if everybody votes, biden wins. right now this is going to be a very, very close election. we can't have people voting for third parties, no matter who they are. in every family americans have

diversity. you have to love your family members. you don't have to like them. i love bobby and i like bobby, but this campaign is not about bobby. this campaign is about trump versus biden. and what we need to do today is focus on biden winning. get your friends to vote, bring your communities together and vote for joe biden. a vote for anyone else is a vote for trump. >> such an important message to hear, if you want to defeat trump, you have to vote for biden. that's the only alternative. to hear it from your family, i'm a huge admirer of your father. i continue to find him so inspiring. i've been in politics a long time. this is the most involved your family has gotten in a presidential campaign since your

father and uncle ran. obviously there's a concern about the impact your brother could have on independents. are there other things in the biden presidency that resonates with your family that you see maybe an opening to accomplish the kind of things that your father set out to do if biden as a second term? >> i think biden's leadership is so important. one of the things that's so important to me is that he cares. he cares so deeply about the people who he comes into contact with, about working class people in our country. there's so much at stake here. president trump has said he's going to cut medicare for people who are dependent on that for their health care. he's going to take away social security, which people have spent their lives building up so they have security going into

their elderly years. he's going to take away those student loans, which our youth needs in order to build a better life and education for themselves and their families. we don't want to go back to that chaos of a trump presidency and we certainly don't want to, as the richest, most powerful country on earth, be in a position where we could have a dictatorship, where this guy is saying he'll be a dictator on day one, that he's going to change the constitution to go after his enemies, to harm the press, which keeps our democracy so strong. that's what's at stake here. president biden cares about us. he marched with the uaw. he cares about unions. he cares about working class

people. he cares about making sure that lgbtq community is protected, that you can love who you love. and president trump is proud for overturning roe v wade. we can't have that. i'm a woman. i've got three daughters. we need control over our health care and our lives. president trump is against it. president biden has fought his whole life for stopping violence against women. >> before we let you go, i just want you to briefly, if you could, just let people know that may not have been exposed to what you do every single day and the site talks about how you teach change, how you shape history, how you expose injustice through the rfk human rights award.

can you tell people about that and about the upcoming awards? >> you're so kind. just so i don't get into trouble, i'm endorsing biden as nothing to do with my job. that's independent from robert f. kennedy human rights. but, yes, i'm the president of robert f. kennedy human rights, named of course after my father. we work all around the world to protect basic rights and to make the world a more just and peaceful place in the vision of senator robert kennedy. >> kerry kennedy, thank you very much. we'll be watching today. thanks for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. take care. >> thank you. coming up, the judge presiding over donald trump's hush money trial says he hopes to have jury selection completed by the end of the week.

we'll have the latest. i'm'll h.

look at san francisco. isn't it beautiful? >> it's gorgeous. i'm surprised at how light it is. it's only 6:00 a.m. and it looks like summer is on the way. beautiful.

>> rev thinks san francisco is beautiful. >> also with us chris hayes. >> no way! this is so exciting. >> wow. >> i've got three school age children, so mornings are like a gauntlet of getting three kids where they need to be, so it is a great joy to be here this morn morning. >> i hope you don't mind me saying this about you. i love chris so much. i love the fact that chris and i shared something in common. when we started our shows, we were always one day away from them handcuffing us, putting a bag over our head and walking us

out the front door. the number of times i heard, joe, you're going to be fired in two weeks. this was replaced by, oh, this is chris hayes' last week. >> this is like ten years ago. >> we watch you every night. let me tell you something. your show is awesome. you're a survivor. your show is awesome. we're really glad to have you here. >> it's such a joy. >> i'm not doing anything right today. >> you can do no wrong. >> stop talking, joe. >> chris, i'm supposed to ask you a lot of questions about the trial, but i want to ask you about your podcast. let's start there.

people love you so much that we don't need to talk about donald trump's jury selection right now. i want to start with your podcast, because i love it. talk about it. >> sure. this is the first election since 1892 where you've got two people running against each other who were both presidents. basically never happens. every time you have a presidential election, sometimes there's one incumbent or neither incumbents. in this case, you've got two records. it's a very rare thing. we have a new series on why this is happening called "the stakes 2024." we look at the records of what these people did on immigration,

on taxes, on judges and reproductive rights. the idea is there's so much madness that swirls around donald trump. you guys cover it. we cover it every night. it's worth covering and important to cover, because the madness is an enormous and existential threat to america. for all the rhetoric he's spewing, there's a real record of actual things the government did or didn't do, people it helped or hurt. the idea is to every week take an area and drill down with an expert about what are the records of these two men. >> when it comes to issues, what do you think is the starkest difference that a lot of undecided voters may not know?

>> you know, on these brass tacks issues, it's always been striking, the three most popular moments for donald trump in polling are the following. right after january 6th, makes sense. when the tax bill was passed and signed into law, the huge trump tax cuts. that december he went down in approval rating to the lowest. and when he tried to repeal obamacare. the first attempt on the union since the cannon fired at fort sumpter should knock a person's poll ratings down. but when you talk about trying to repeal affordable care act and an enormous tax cut for people in the top, that stuff is not popular. that stuff has been a little lost, i think to memory that if he is in power and if there's a

republican majority and a republican senate, they're going to try that again. he just did a fundraiser with john paulson where he told everyone, i'm going to get you another tax cut, don't worry. they're going to make another run at health care. there's a lot of things the government can do and did do the first time to pare back enrollment in medicaid. i'm in the same boat. we're doing this on the podcast, because it gives us time and depth to drill down into this stuff, because the whirlwind of psychosis that is the donald trump experience so sort of overwhelms in other ways. >> so january 6th is obviously

extraordinary important to us that people remember that. but let's talk about issues, again, the brass tacks of it, of the three things you just brought up. donald trump passes the largest tax cut ever for billionaires and multinational corporations. that night he flies down to mar-a-lago and says to his billionaire friends, i just made you all a lot richer today when he signed that billionaire tax cut into law. that's one. number two, obamacare. the cost of health care keeps going up. obamacare is a lifeline that keeps working class americans in a health care plan. donald trump has said time and again he wants to take it away. and finally, medicaid. for too long i think working class americans and middle class americans have bought the

garbage that right-wing leaders have fed them about medicaid. oh, this is welfare for black people that live in new york city. no! it is rural hospitals, where people vote for donald trump the most. people need to know this. rural hospitals are savaged by the cuts that donald trump and republicans have brought to medicaid. nursing homes are paid through medicaid. hospitals are shutting down so people may have to drive 45 miles to get health care because republicans have been on a mission to slash medicaid for years. >> yeah. and you've got a situation where what you're highlighting is that

there's two things that happen when you elect someone to be president. you elect the person, donald trump, and you elect a coalition of interests. you're going to get donald trump and you're also going to get a coalition of interests that want to savage american health care. we talk about the border so much. it has produced this migrant flow that has been difficult for all kinds of cities to handle in all kinds of ways. the american people like immigration. they want people to come the right way. they want them to come legally. on non-asylum seekers at the border, what donald trump and stephen miller did was to basically try to destroy and savage orderly immigration, to

make it essentialy impossible to come through the right way, to make cuts to the people who process these applications. at one point they implemented a new policy. when you're applying for a visa, there's a form that says fill out every line. there's a spot on the form with five lines for your kids. if you have two kids and you don't right n/a on the three other lines they toss the application. they were just finding ways at the most minute level to erect barriers. people are doing this by the book in the way we say we want. we're closing down america from

people coming and creating unbelievable misery and log jam in the system and breaking it on purpose. this is another huge part of the stakes here, someone who wants to break government on purpose, who wants the government to malfunction and turn the state into a bad urban machine from the 1890s where everything is determined by patronage and kicking upstairs. >> isn't that really where a lot of people are going? what i've been detecting in the last couple of weeks is that a lot of the focus now from a lot to have get out the vote groups, civil rights groups, other groups are saying let's stop this battle between two old white males and let us now try to frame the election on not whether you're on biden's side or trump's side but you're on

your own side and what does that mean and who's closer to serving your interests. i hear you talk about medicaid and medicare and immigration. isn't it really the best way to deal with voter turnout when people feel they're voting for themselves and their interests and who matches up best to that even if it's not 100%? >> yes. i think this focus on interests, who's going to serve your interests, you know, one of the great cons of donald trump is this pseudo faux populism. never was this clearer than during that uaw strike, where you've got joe biden, who goes to the picket line, first president in recorded history walks the picket line and spores the strikers. donald trump goes to a non-union shop at the invitation of management. the idea is to obscure the two, to sort of project yourselves as a friend of the working man,

when actually as soon as you're in power you're going to cut corporate taxes the most of anyone essentially in history, cut taxes at the top, cut the estate tax and throw a pittance to working folks, obscuring what the real material interests are for people. they have cancelled hundreds of billions of dollars in student loans. that's real tangible improvements in people's condition that is going to go away if donald trump is in there. you cannot lose sight of the existential threat overall that donald trump represents to the american democracy, to the american experiment. the people that are sort in concentric circles furthest removed from the core of folks that are most fired up on that issue are people for whom that

issue is not yet motivating them. if you're on the fence or not sure you're going to vote, taking a look at these material issues is really important. >> chris hayes, thank you so much for coming on. good luck with those kids. >> it's so great to be on. i really appreciate it. >> we'll be watching "all in" weeknights at 8:00 on msnbc. and his new podcast is available now. coming up, as the house heads towards a vote for israel, prime minister benjamin netanyahu says his country will make its own decisions of how to respond to iran's attack. we'll get the latest from the

region when we are joined by jordan's foreign minister, who says his country is seeking to deescalate tensions. we'll also hear from a member of the foreign relations committee when senator chris coons joins the conversation. joins the conversati on (♪♪) is this normal? yeah. i mean, he does look happy. when you've got questions, chewy's got answers. too happy? ask the chewy vet team. how much is too much catnip?

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thanks to governor newsom and leaders in sacramento, we can lift workers out of poverty. stop the race to the bottom in the fast-food industry. and build a california for all of us. thank you governor and our california lawmakers for fighting for what matters. we're going to stand for freedom and make sure vladimir putin doesn't march through europe. we're an exceptional nation. we're the greatest nation on the planet. we have to act like it. we have to project that putin and xi and north korea and iran and anybody else that we will defend freedom. we're not the world's policemen but we're going to do the right thing. >> are you going to have to rely on democrats to pass the rule in order to bring these bills to the floor and also the legislation itself? >> well, i hope not. i hope that our republican colleagues will stick together

on this. i'm a child of the '80s. i regard myself as a reagan republican. i understand the concept of maintaining peace through strength. that's one of our guiding principles. it's a big part of our party and our world view. this is an opportunity to make that stand at a critical time in history. >> speaker mike johnson pushing forward on his foreign aid package despite threats from some of his republican colleagues to oust him if he does. joining us is senator chris coons of delaware. good to have you back on the show. what do you make of what we're hearing from the speaker of the house? >> i'm relieved to hear speaker johnson finally speaking so clearly and so forcefully that his values are rooted in the reagan republican era, that he sees the key strategic moment that we're in and that he agrees we need to fight for freedom in europe and by helping ukraine

stand up to russia's aggression, show that the united states is committed to the fight for freedom around the world. this supplemental aid package that he is now trying to move through the house passed the senate by a strong bipartisan margin weeks ago. it will secure ukraine's defense, fund israel's defense and provide $9 billion in humanitarian aid, critically needed from sudan to gaza to ukraine, to a dozen other countries, and it will provide support for our key partners in the indo-pacific. if he can get this done this weekend, it will be a critical turning point and put us on a positive trajectory for this year. if it fails, this will be a moment long remembered as when the united states stepped aside from being as secretary albright often put it, the indispensable

nation. >> you have russia obviously still attacking ukraine. you have israel under attack from iran. you are exactly right. now is the time. i'm wondering your thoughts as we look toward israel -- and obviously we support israel in defending themselves -- about gaza, about netanyahu, about what's happened over the past couple of months and about what netanyahu has been working towards for well over a decade. that is just the elimination of any hope for a two-state solution between israel and the palestinians. now do we keep that two-state solution alive? we are a strong partner of israel, but netanyahu's path has been disastrous, hasn't it? >> it has. frankly, joe, let's take a step

back to why the october 7th attack by hamas happened. it happened both because hamas is a group of murderous terrorists, whose core principle is they want to kill jews and remove the jewish people from israel. and it happened because there was steady, positive progress toward ending the arab/israeli conflict. the saudi kingdom led by prince bill salmon and the united states were moving forward by a original economic and security alignment between israel and all of the arab states. one of the greatest successes of american leadership and diplomacy in the middle east was the camp david peace accords that ended the active war between jordan and israel.

if we finally end the arab/israel conflict, that would shut out iran and prevent them from having the ability to manipulate the region and impose the horrifying costs they've done through their proxies, hezbollah, hamas and the houthis. we need to said to prime minister netanyahu, you have a path forward here. you have to show a path toward dignity and self-governance for the palestinians and a regional plan for stabilization and security. this would be a big change. as you just said, it's been netanyahu's practice for a decade to divide the palestinians and to say there is no path towards a two-state solution. he could make history by instead embracing the possibility of peace with the palestinians and an end to the arab/israeli conflict, but that would require a basic change in where he

heads. in my view, if that's not something he's willing to embrace, my hope is that the israeli electorate will choose a leader who does see that as possible. that's very hard in this moment, just after such a horrifying attack on october 7th. but what happened last weekend was that the iranians launched 300 drones and missiles at israel, and they got to see what a security alignment with jordan, the saudis, the brits, the french, the united states looked like in terms of delivering intelligence and timely interception of that wave of attacks. there is a better path forward here for the middle east, and my home is that prime minister netanyahu and the israeli people will take it. >> democratic senator chris coons of delaware, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu says his country will make its own decisions over how to respond to

iran. he made the comment yesterday after meeting with foreign ministers of britain and germany, who along with the u.s., have been asking israel to show restraint in an effort to avoid a larger conflict. netanyahu, however, says while he appreciated the advice, israel will, quote, do whatever is necessary to defend itself. israel's war cabinet has met several times since saturday's attack, but no decision has been made yet on how the country will respond. officials say they are considering a range of options. meanwhile, iran's president warned yesterday that even the tiniest attack by israel would bring a, quote, severe and harsh response. joining us now, jordanian deputy prime minister and minister of foreign affairs. he will attend today's u.n. security council meeting in new york on the situation in the middle east. we thank you for coming on this morning. >> thank you so much. let me begin as we talk about

iran and what they've done across the region, whether it's israel or the saudis, it's been something i know you and your country have been monitoring. talk about any provocations or activities inside jordan that iranian agents may be doing right now to destabilize your government? >> good morning to you all. we've had our issues with iran for decades. we always said that we wanted to have the region free from conflict and have good relations with iran. in order for those good relations to be developed, iran has to stop interfering in the the relations of the arab world and stop acting in ways that would destabilize us and others in the region. we have issues with our border to the north that are supported by iran that continue to try and smuggle drugs and weapons into

jordan. that said, however, iran retaliated to the israeli attack on its embassy in damascus. that retaliation increased tensions in the region. iran has said now that it will no longer take any further action against israel. the challenge now is to make sure israel does not retaliate and we focus on the real issue, which is the ongoing war on gaza, the absence of political horizons for peace and try to end the war immediately and create a path toward solving the palestinian/israeli conflict so all of us in the region can live in peace and dignity. if the palestinian problem is solved, then we in the region would be the first to tell iran, stay out of it, you have no business interfering in our affairs. iran is using that conflict. if we end that conflict, then iran will have no excuse to go ahead with its policies.

>> israel seems to feel the need at least to reserve the right to respond to iran. if they do, what do you see happening at that? is there any conversation happening with benjamin netanyahu and his government to try and perhaps tamping down the need to respond? >> if israel does respond, retaliate, we'll be facing war. everyone is telling netanyahu not to respond, the u.s., europe, all of us are saying unequivocally any retaliation would risk further escalation in the region. to put it frankly, netanyahu has always wanted to provoke a confrontation with iran and drag the u.s. and the west into that confrontation so he saves his

career. now as the pressure on netanyahu to stop the war on gaza and to start negotiations that would take us to peace increases, he's trying to divert attention away from gaza. we need to be very, very careful not to allow netanyahu to impose his agenda of war on all of us, because the consequences would be extremely dangerous to us in the region, to the u.s., to the whole world. >> benjamin netanyahu says he will do whatever he wants. of course, it's the united states, the u.k., jordan, other countries that stepped in and helped out and were brought into it when iran attacked last time, and i suspect we'll be brought into it again. let me ask you about the possibility of a u.n. vote on palestine u.n. member

recognition. what are you thoughts about this? is now the time? do you believe it may be too premature? what's your thoughts? >> we've always said that the two-state solution is the only answer to the conflict. it's the only path that will guarantee the safety and security of both the palestinians and israel. we wanted to have this solution agreed to among the parties. but, unfortunately, netanyahu has been saying publicly even before october 7th that he will not allow for the two-state solution to happen. he will suffocate the palestinian people's rights to freedom. measures on the ground, the building of settlements, the confiscation of land are making that solution unviable. the option would have been to have a negotiated agreement that would result in peace that

everyone would embrace. what do we do? do we allow netanyahu to veto that and doom the future of the region to more conflict and suffering, or do we impose a solution that's in the interest of the israeli people and the palestinians? we have to make a differentiation. supporting netanyahu on his agenda of war and radical extremist ministers in his cabinet is not supporting israel. supporting israel is supporting peace, because that will ensure peace and allow us all in the region to live in peace and security. in jordan we're a country of peace. we made peace 30 years ago. we're committed to that peace, because we believe it's the right thing to do.

now with the war in gaza, our people are saying we no longer believe in that peace. on the weekend we were in the cross fire. hour skies were lit up by iranian drones and missiles in retaliation to that. we have said and we'll continue to say we'll never allow israel or iran to turn jordan into a battleground, and we will defend the safety of our people, because any of those missiles or drones could have fallen in jordan. to israel and iran, we say we will not allow you to violate our space and endanger our people. to israel and the whole world, we say work with us to achieve the lasting peace that can only be realized through the two-state solution so that neither the palestinians nor the israelis will ever have to live the horrors since october 7th and we are all focused on creating a future of peace for all our peoples, palestinians, israelis, jordanians, everybody

else. >> thank you very much for coming on this morning. >> thank you so much. still ahead, donald trump is back in court this morning for another day of jury selection in his criminal hush money trial. we'll go over a new development with one of the jurors, who has already been seated. that's next on "morning joe." s already been seated. that's next on "morning joe. with so many choices on booking.com there are so many tina feys i could be. so i hired body doubles. indoorsy tina loves a deluxe suite. ooh! booking.com booking.yeah

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39 past the hour. happening now in new york city, day three of jury selection in the donald trump criminal hush money trial. it's under way now. we've just learned that the judge has dismissed one of the seven jurors seated on tuesday after she expressed concern about her ability to be fair and impartial. that means six more jurors and

six alternates must now be chosen. with the court off yesterday, trump went on a social media tirade about jury selection, seemingly misunderstanding the rules for dismissing or striking potential candidates. trump writing, quote, i thought strikes were supposed to be unlimited when we were picking our jury. i was then told we only had ten, not nearly enough when we were purposely given the second worst venue in the country. under new york law, each side does have an unlimited number of strikes for cause, but the judge presiding over the case can decide whether or not that cause is worthy of a strike. because trump is charged with a class e felony, which is a lower-level felony, he and prosecutors are entitled to ten preemptory challenges.

>> reverend al, talk about what donald trump's going through in the courtroom. >> i think he is going through a combination of humiliation and fear. i mean, he's humiliated because he's never been in a position where someone else was totally in charge of his movements and his mouth. i think he's afraid because he's now sitting in a courtroom with the reality that he could be found guilty in one of over 30 felonies which could not only face jail time but makes him a felon. as he moves on with the rest of his life, how does he continue to deal with financial institutions and other things as a convicted felon? i think reality has set in even for donald trump. >> we will be following this all day as jury selection continues today. moving on now to politics

and foreign aid, the person leading the charge to remove house speaker mike johnson from his post is offering a few odd amendments to the foreign aid bill. congresswoman marjorie taylor greene of georgia introduced two amendments yesterday. the first would fund the development of space laser technology on the southwest border. >> is this jewish space lasers that she talked about? >> the second requires any congressional member who supports the ukraine portion of the bill required to enlist in the ukrainian military. >> you actually have people at fox news writing about how bad she is for the republican party. >> let's get an update on the war. let's bring a "new york times"

reporter matthew brzezinski. >> i think some of the leaders in the republican party must have read your column on msnbc.com. but you talk about the importance of grown ups stepping forward here. mike johnson actually sounded like a traditional republican and reagan republican, he also sounded like mika's dad and matthew's uncle, who understands the consequences of russian aggression. >> i think you're right. i think what you're seeing here is an attempt by marjorie taylor greene to upend what is the brzezinski doctrine, which has been a mainstay of policy for 30

years after the collapse of the soviet union. as long as there is an independent sovereign ukraine, russia is effectively bottled up. but when russia has swallowed up ukraine, it has been a dangerous power and a danger to the rest of europe. i don't think marjorie taylor greene knows a lot about foreign policy. i saw her tweet yesterday where she said if supporting ukrainian nazis is anti-semitic. when an elected american official seems to be getting their talking points from vladimir putin, it's a sad state of affairs. the grown ups, i think, are beginning to prevail in congress and trying to rein in this circus. i don't know if she's just trying to get attention or whatever, but she doesn't make a lot of sense.

>> there have been anti-semitic slurs against the jewish leader of ukraine from the beginning of this war and even republican leaders are now saying that unfortunately back benchers are just parroting russian talking points. matthew, i love talking to you about ukraine offline. in this column, you reveal things we don't hear that much ouinhe u.s. media. we hear about the ground war and obviously about how russia is making advances, but you go into great detail about how that's just one part of the story, but that actually the ukrainians are doing very well with the sea war and the air war. talk about that and talk about the losses that you report on that they keep inflicting on russia every day. >> stepping back and looking at the big picture, i think if two years ago when russia invaded,

if anybody, least of all vladimir putin would think ukraine would still be standing today and giving them very severe blows, put in perspective russian losses in ukraine right now greatly exceed our losses in vietnam, between 350,000 and 400,000 dead and wounded. they boasted before the invasion the world's largest fleet of tanks. they're reduced now to taking t-65s and t-64s. these things are older than i am, and i'm not that young, unfortunately. the russians have lost hundreds of airplanes, including a third of its most expensive spy planes, a-50s.

they're over $300 million each. the ukrainians have been targeting radar stations, jamming stations. they're basically going after all the most expensive, high-end hardware. one thing we're not really talking about is how are they able to do this. ukrainians have developed what must be a very, very close relationship with our intelligence, reconnaissance and satellite services here. in fact, how extensive this is, last year we were doing a sailing race and we needed to buy a satellite phone. we could not buy a satellite phone in the united states because 80% of all satellite phones have been bought by the department of defense and sent to ukraine. this is where the ukrainians are getting the coordinates to go after these very high-value targets. that is where vladimir putin is really getting hurt, because he doesn't have the resources.

remember, russia has about $100 billion a year defense budget. that's an eighth or a ninth even of what we have. according to the "wall street journal" they've lost about $55 billion in hardware. putin doesn't have the money to replace it. the ukrainians are now going after his sources of income. they have devastated the oil and gas sector to the point where the biden administration is even asking them, hey, relax, because we're in an election here. if you keep blowing up russian refineries, gas prices are going to go up all over the world. so ukrainians have done far, far better than we give them credit for. i was talking yesterday with a friend who is right on the front line. he says, unfortunately right now they're running out of

everything. he said you cannot fight on courage alone. the ukrainians have done their part. it's really time for us to do our part and give them the wherewithal to continue fighting the russians. >> the weapons that are going to be sent, most are going to be made here. $55 billion in hardware putin's lost, 350,000 to 400,000 casualties, tanks order than us, a third of the black sea fleet at the bottom of the ocean. >> you can read this piece online at msnbc.com. former reporter for the "wall street journal" matthew brzezinski. coming up on "morning joe" -- >> this is a tale of horror and wonder, of innocence and beauty,

of violence and sin. this story would haunt the island for years to come. it would forever change the fact that young girls are the ones we were supposed to protect. ♪♪ >> not be protected from. i want you to take me under the bridge. bridge >> that was a look at the crime drama "under the bridge" based on the true story of a 14-year-old who left home to join friends at a party and never returned. oscar nominee nominee lily glad joins us to discuss her role in the brand new series. we're back in 90 seconds. we held save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. we got a bit of a situation. [ metal groans] sure, i can hold. ♪ liberty liberty liberty liberty ♪

i don't want you to move. in theaters i'm gonna miss you so much. you realize we'll have internet waiting for us at the new place, right? oh, we know. we just like making a scene. transferring your services has never been easier. get connected on the day of your move with the xfinity app. can i sleep over at your new place? can katie sleep over tonight? sure, honey! this generation is so dramatic!

move with xfinity. she tell you anything? >> no. >> so you just drove home in silence then? >> yeah. she said that the cops were hassling her for no reason, which is kind of what you're doing rig now. that was meant to be a joke. >> don't. >> sorry i didn't tell you i was here. i didn't know if you'd want me

to. >> stay away from josephine. >> that was a scene from the new hulu limited series "under the bridge," the eight-episode true crime drama is based on the 2005 book of the same name and explores the story of a canadian teenager's murder and the investigation that followed. joining us now oscar nominated actress lily gladstone, she plays local police officer investigating the case. you saw her there, and lily, it's great to have you on the show. aside from this being a great opportunity, what drew you to this? >> initially i leaned away a little bit because i wasn't too keen to do a true crime again right away knowing that riley was attached and the kind of -- the kind of compassion and deep dive that she gives to her work, i knew this would be something special, especially because she was also attached as a producer so i knew she believed in it. my first meeting with quinn and

saneer, i made a short list of things i wanted to make sure were going to be addressed in the arc of the character. as they were giving me the pitch before i could even ask questions, i was crossing off, okay, 60 scoop, that's in is there, restorative justice conversation, that's in there. so everything that kind of appealed to me about playing this character, what i would have wanted to bring in myself including the fact that they also optioned man jeet verks book, not just "under the bridge," an account of what happened, especially through the trial, but also the family, how they were treated by the media, sensationalism, kind of their back story and some of the family's mistrust of the police, the law enforcement because of how they were treated prior to the case. it was all really fertile ground for conversations that i think are important to be had. >> i watched the first two episodes, which means i have to get up at 3:30 in the morning to come here. i was ready to watch episode three, unfortunately it had not started yet.

we don't get that until next week. my husband's like you have to go to bed. i was like it's so good. it is from 30 years ago, but it's about a teenager, an indian canadian, i guess, teenager that was bulied and died. the briefing notes ruined it, now i know -- >> so sorry. >> no, that's good. it is -- it's such a good -- there's so many layers to this story, but you know, it's about -- it is about bullying, but it's also about the sort of restorative justice that you talk about. talk a little bit about, you know, 30 years on the story of a young girl being bullied and, you know, what it kind of -- you know, what you felt that story taught us about today or should teach us. >> i mean, we're so soon out of the tragedy of next benedict, you know, this hasn't gone anywhere, and i remember i was a teenager during this time. i was in middle school in 1997,

i was very close to where this happened about rena, even though we specifically didn't hear about rena, she rocked canada. her case rocked canada the way matthew shepard did. i remember this sort of shift and suddenly our teachers and grown-ups being hyper concerned with the kind of music we were listening to, the shows we were watching, video games we were playing, if we were fetishizing, romanticizing this crypt war. i remember thinking that was odd. i was not quite sophisticated yet, but i remember cooped of feeling a little offended by that, it's like it's not our music choices that are doing this. and i love that the show really -- it builds the world around the victims in a very compassionate way. it also builds the world around the kids, and i feel like we can have these conversations a little bit more because they are children. we extend more compassion to

children naturally, but we know that bullies are made. bullies are made by inequities in society, by kids, by people who feel disempowered, are grabbing at whatever that is. my beautiful parents when i was bullied when i was a kid, always made sure that i would absorb that not personally, know that it was -- there was something about my bully that was hurt so they planted a seed of compassion in me very young for people who would be mean to me. and i think when we're having these conversations about protecting our kids, stopping these instances, we need to look at the society we've built that does tend to glorify violence, that's casts this celebrity sort of status on the perpetrators. >> is that why given your background, oscar nominee, you know, awards, that you would put your gravitas into this kind of role that you want people to walk away looking at the kinds

of ways we deal with justice and the way we deal with the reality rather than just scapegoating, as you said, it was about gangs. it was about the music. is that why you weighed in and decided to play this role? >> certainly, and i thought it was really clever and important that the show runner and that the creator of the series, they decided to bring -- my character is entirely fictionalized, so i knew that there was a space there in the way that she was created was built to have those conversations. i felt that, you know, it's tricky to rein, the story itself is very difficult. i'm very glad that it a lot like killers of the flower moon tyke a self-indicting approach to it. the audience can be walked along with culturally why do we create this sensationalism? why do we continue to uphold a society that marginalizes

people, makes them more vulnerable to bullying but penalizes them heavier when they're the bullies. i think the gravitas you're speaking of is some stories i have a deep compassion for, and i think it's really important that it's so easy for true crime to be relegated to a genre, to be sensationalized but quinn said it when the show opened the other night in l.a., and i think it's beautiful. it comes from rebecca godfrey, she doesn't care about true crime. she cared about this crime, and i think this crime really opens the door because it's so multifacetted. so many people were involved with it. so many larger entities came into play, and yeah, i thought it was a very unique way that's still -- you know, it's still entertainment, it still pulls you along and wants to keep you hooked to every episode. i mean, fairly soon as an

audience, you are let in and the rest of the story plays out to really hold the framework for these conversations. >> the first two episodes of "under the bridge" are streaming now on hulu, oscar nominee lily gladstone, thank you so much for coming on this morning. >> thank you for having me. >> that does it for us this morning. >> it's been awesome. >> ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. right now on "ana cabrera reports," breaking news in donald trump's hush money trial. just moments ago, one of the jurors who was already sworn in and seated was just dismissed. what she told the court about new concerns she could not be fair and impartial. plus, breaking news on capitol hill, a key house committee meeting now as speaker johnson moves ahead with votes this weekend on foreign aid despite the threat to his job. could some unlikely allies snep step in to save him?