12 persons are in that box. >> joyce, can you quickly -- i mean in seconds -- summarize your thoughts today? >> well, i think harry is right about the dilemma trump faces. this is a judge who has shown that he's very capable. his rulings have been fair and even handed. he's focused on ensuring that any conviction can be sustained on appeal. i think we'll continue to see him rule in this even-handed manner which means he won't tolerate trump's high jinks. >> you are a pro legally and in television. thanks to all who were on today. that's it for today. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. good day. i'm chris jansing live in new york city headquarters in new york city.

trump's existential threats to his freedom and fanses happening at the same time, in the same city where trump made his name as personification of big apple swagger and success. we're expecting to hear from the former president from 40 wall street just steps from the courthouse. that's where a surprisingly contentious hearing just wrapped. judge juan merchan refused trump's request to delay his criminal trial, scheduling jury selection to begin april 15th, exactly three months to the day before the republican convention. that trial potentially carrying a possibility of prison time, and yet the former president got an 11th-hour reprieve in the other big legal case hanging over his head. in a stunning decision from the new york appellate court, the half billion dollar bond trump was supposed to pay today was cut by more than 60%. an enormous break. he got more time to get it together as well. we'll explain what it all means in just a minute.

we start with the major news that the first criminal trial for donald trump will begin on april 15th, exactly three weeks from today. after months of questions about whether any of the four pending cases against him would actually happen before election day. trump's attorneys went into today's hush money hearing looking for a delay or even a dismissal. they got neither. instead, they ended up getting an earful from judge juan merchan. pressing trump's claims about last-minute evidence, the judge was described as uncharacteristically furious, saying to the nbc news team in court, you are literally accusing the manhattan d.a.'s office and people assigned to this case of prosecutorial misconduct, saying trump's lawyers provided nothing to back up that allegation. the judge ruling that alvin bragg was not responsible for the delay in discovery and it didn't warrant delaying the

trial. nbc legal correspondent lisa rubin is outside the courthouse. catherine christian is an msnbc legal analyst. april 15th is the date. no delay. explain how the judge made this decision. what did he say about it? >> reporter: chris, let me take you back to why we're here in the first place. the judge complaining saying it's odd that we're even here. trump's team essentially subpoenaed materials from the southern district of new york. that's the arm of the department of justice that prosecutes cases in manhattan and the materials that they wanted pertain to michael cohen who, as you know, is expected to be the star witness in this case. their accusations then were of the 195,000-plus pages they got in discovery from the southern district of new york, many of those were not only relevant to the case but should have been turned over to them much sooner

by the manhattan d.a.'s office. judge merchan was just not buying that. he said, first of all, the department of justice and the fbi are not under the direction or the control of the d.a.'s office here in new york city. it's a separate state-controlled office. he found no evidence of collusion between the two of you. >> i need to interrupt you because donald trump is speaking. let's go live. >> i think we'll start before a lot of them come in, which frankly, always makes me happy. so a lot of things happened today. this is all about election interference. this is all biden-run things, meaning biden and his thugs, because i don't know if he knows he's alive. it's a shame, a shame what's happening to our country. this is election interference. they are doing things that have never been done in this country before. we've never had anything like it, certainly not at this level. we really had nothing like it that i've been able to find.

it does happen a lot in third world countries, banana republics. if you look at what we just left, you have a case which they're dying to get this thing started. the judge cannot go faster -- he wants to get it started so badly, and there's tremendous corruption. you have mark pom rants, hillary clinton's lawyer, democrat national committee's lawyer. he worked with paul weiss. he took over the district attorney's office, no one has seen anything like that, to prosecute trump. then they wouldn't do what they wanted him to do and he goes out and writes a book. long before any decisions were made. he writes a book and the book gets published. everybody is reading his book. the judge said there's nothing wrong with that. if you look at bragg, bragg had a fit over this.

bragg said this trial is dead, we can't do the trial. that was one of the problems and the judge should have allowed that to happen. you had other instances like colangelo, a radical left from the doj who was put into the state working with letitia james and then was put into the district attorney's office to run the trial against trump. that was done by biden and his thugs also because they can't win an election because of the borders, because of energy prices, because of inflation, because of afghanistan, the worst and most embarrassing day in the history of our country. he can't win because of russia, russia, russia, because of all the problems, because of ukraine being attacked by russia. and he can't win balk of the october 7th attack of israel which he should have never allowed to happen. would have never happened if i were president. ukraine would have never been attacked if i was president. you wouldn't have inflation if i was president. we didn't have inflation.

so all of these things -- what they do is they do election interference which is court cases and let's try and tie him up and take as much of his money as possible. i respect the appellate division for substantially reducing that ridiculous amount of money that was put on by a corrupt judge named engoron. >> we'll continue to listen to donald trump, but as he continues to make what are provably wrong statements and confuse certain things and go off on tangents, i want to go back to lisa rubin. lisa, he did a lot of name dropping there, went off on different tangents. what's your takeaway from what he had to say? >> reporter: chris, i'm having trouble hearing you. one of the things i heard him say was reiterating his constant line that this is an example of biden-led election interference. that is exactly what judge

merchan found is not what's going on. he found that the manhattan d.a.'s office was not responsible for the belated transmission of materials related to michael cohen's prosecution by the southern district of new york because that office is not under the control of the d.a., not under the direction of the d.a. he found no evidence that those offices were doing anything but meeting together in the ordinary course to exchange materials subject to a court order, not colluding between them as the former president is very fond of saying. he also talked just now about matthew colangelo, the lead lawyer in court today for the manhattan d.a.'s office. yes, he is also the veteran of the new york attorney general's office where he metal vin bragg, the now elected district attorney. he has also spent some time at the department of justice in washington, d.c. again, this is the former president trying to confuse folks watching by alleging somehow that this is evidence of

collusion between state and federal governments and offices of law enforcement when there's been no proof to that point in court or otherwise, chris. >> in fact, there were points today in court where the judge pushed back saying you don't have any proof of what you're alleging here. but i want to go to msnbc senior political analyst matthew dowd. matthew, you can argue that, taken on its face, there is one thing donald trump said that is true which is this has never been done in this country before. what he wasn't referencing but where that is true is we've never had a former president who is facing four criminal trials, nearly 90 counts of indictments, that we have never before had a former president who is facing two huge judgments against him in civil cases. we're going to go back to him when there's q&a, when we're able to ask questions, when journalists are able to ask questions. your take on what you're seeing from donald trump today, even on a day when arguably he got a big

win. >> i think you're exactly right. it's typical delusional donald trump as we've watched over the last six or seven years, how he tries to spin what's reality into some fiction and hope the 40% of the country that buys into it will keep buying into it. i will say there's two things he said that were truthful today. the one you mentioned, truthful in a different way. as well as this is election interference, which is right, it is about election interference, not against him, but perpetrated by him and his surrogates and people around him, which is why these trials are all sort of necessary and important. the thing that i find fascinating is every time donald trump has gone to trial, every single time donald trump has gone to trial or his people have gone to trial, whether it's over election fraud or whatever, the trial courts have all rejected what he's said as completely

myth thick and made up and wanting him to stop this stuff, and they present a fact set with evidence that needs to be presented in this. that's the problem donald trump has, but he does have an unnatural sway over 40% of the country. it is something that is exceedingly concerning, that he can say and do anything and 40% of the country will go along with it. >> speaking of saying anything, matthew, one of the things he continues to say, anything that happens bad in the world, anything that could be construed as negative in the united states, he says to an issue, this would not have happened if i were president, right? absolutely, a, unprovable and in many cases, given any kind of analysis, highly, highly unlikely. having said that, 40% of the country that will buy that, 40% of the country who would think if he were president we'd be in much better shape, does not win

you the presidency. so from a political standpoint, what are you seeing here today? >> i mean i think we've seen it and we saw it throughout the primaries. he seems only concerned with that 40%. so i actually think he's given up on the idea of winning the popular vote in this country. he's never won it and he didn't win it in 2020, didn't win it in 2016. though he won the electoral college in 2016, as we all know. i think that's his strategy. i think the idea that he would somehow move to the center and be more rational and disciplined and appeal to the next 10 or 12% that would give him the majority vote in the country is not something he's interested in at all. i think what was revealed today and every other day is his total strategy is to motivate that 40% in key states like michigan and pennsylvania and wisconsin and arizona and georgia, hoping that will be enough, if he motivates

his supporters, to win the electoral college. i would say by and large his campaign and him has completely given up on the idea that they'll win a majority of the popular vote of the country. >> well, catherine, let me go back into the courtroom if i can and read you some of the notes that our team took during the hearing about the discovery process which was at the heart of this, whether or not trump's team needed more time to go over some of this new information that came in, the new papers. the judge said to trump's team, i see a pattern, i see your interpretation, and it is very different from my interpretation where you read one and read one, and i come away with a very different meaning. you just heard one set of facts and interpret it as the people not doing anything, and i see them going above and beyond. the people meaning -- >> yeah. >> is trump's team reaching a dangerous point? you can use all kinds of tactics. you can make all kinds of claims

and arguments, but this sounds like a judge who is done with what seems to some people to be like a dart board approach, hope if i keep saying stuff, at some point something is going to stick. >> this judge, who i'm familiar with because i practiced in manhattan, is known to being fair to both sides and very smart. what happens is when you do this as an attorney, you lose credibility with the judge. when you make an argument, the judge is going to remember that you were -- i'll use the word dishonest before. the judge is basically saying don't be saying prosecutorial misconduct unless you have reason to back it up. what the judge did is fair. he has given and the lawyer requires the defendant a reasonable time to prepare if there's a late disclosure of information which there was in this case. the judge determined that 30 days is enough. trump's lawyers did not show any prejudice, any grounds for this indictment to be dismissed. >> so let me go back to you, lisa, if i can. give us a sense of the mood in

the courtroom and what some of those exchanges were like. we've lost lisa for a minute. let me go back to you and ask you a little bit more about what your takeaway is from what happened today. does this carry over -- if we hear the frustration, is the judge, do you think, going to try to keep them on a shorter leash when april 15th eventually comes around. does everything get wiped away and you start fresh on day one of the trial. >> he'll keep them on a short leash because donald trump has said this is moving quickly. it's a year. he will be going on trial a year from when he was arraigned on his indictment. this one at previous meetings with these attorneys has made it clear that he's not going to allow any nonsense, and we can expect that. that includes from the defendant. when there's a jury empanelled, he is not going to let donald trump make faces or make comments. he will stop everything in its tracks. the judge is going to do that.

>> nbc's vaughn hillyard is covering donald trump and trump world for us. he's taking questions now. let's listen in. >> i don't know if we're having one. we're going to be appealing right now. i can tell you that. we did nothing wrong. just like i did nothing wrong in the other case. my statements, my financial statements were conservative, they were low, not high. he valued mar-a-lago at a tiny fraction of what it is. he created a fraud in order to help his narrative and her narrative because he does whatever she wants. the judge, what he's done is fraudulent. mar-a-lago, you know it very well, maggie. he made mar-a-lago into $18 million. i had many offers that said i'll give you 19, okay? half of the living room is worth more than that. it's worth anywhere from 50 to 100 times that amount. and he stays with it. he's either whacked out or dishonest, one or the other, or

both. probably both. he's a disgrace to the system, and i think that new york state was helped a lot to day by the decision. i'll give you an example of -- truth social is doing very well, hot as a pistol and doing great. it's going public. the new york stock exchange wants to have us badly. i told them, we can't do the new york stock exchange. you're treated too badly in new york. the people at the stock exchange are very, very upset about it. the top person is mortified, can't believe it. he said, i'm losing business because of new york, because people don't want to be in new york and don't want to go into the new york stock exchange. you can ask them about it. i'd love to go on the new york stock exchange. it would be a big thing to go on the new york stock exchange. people aren't going on the new york stock exchange now because of what's happening in new york because they don't want to be attacked by a thug like this horrible attorney general that we have in new york, the worst

in the whole country. we'll decide about truth social and what we do with it. there's just an example of how this is hurting new york and new york state. yeah. >> can you speak in a little more detail about the timing of when you plan to secure the bond and how exactly you're planning to pay the bond? >> as i say, i have a lot of cash. you know i do because you looked at my statements. you've been examining my statements for a long time. i have much more than that in cash. but i would also like to be able to use some of my cash to get elected. they don't want me to use my cash to get elected. they don't want that. they don't want me taking cash out to use it for the campaign. they looked at it, and this judge looked at it -- and he's part of the whole deal. he's such a disgrace for this city. again, the most overturned judge. there's never been that we can find where a judge has been overturned five times. it was four times, now it's five times. i have a lot of cash and a great

company. to think they want to go after a company -- this is a great company, a company that's doing very well. i've got very low debt on buildings. like this building. i have very low debt on this building. most buildings i have no debt. more clubs i have no debt. look at my greatest assets. i have no debt. i didn't even include the brand value. i became president because of the brand, let's say. the brand value, it's one of the most valuable brand values. i would on the swop it for any other in the world. trump. i didn't even put anything down for it. i have very conservative statements. they made it look bad valuing mlg at 18 million and it's 50 to 100 times more. this is the fraud. they're hurting the state so badly. then i can't go into the new york stock exchange because i can't do business -- not because i can't, but because i don't

want to do business in new york. the people at the naen new york stock exchange, they're not happy. >> -- now that the bond had been reduced, are you going to start putting money into your campaign? >> first of all, it's none of your business, frankly. but i might do that. i have the option. if i have to spend $500 million on a bond, i wouldn't have that option. i'd have to start selling things. i don't have to sell anything because it's a phenomenal company. i built a phenomenal company. some day they'll actually report that. i built a phenomenal company that's very low leverage, unbelievably low leverage with a lot of cash, a lot of everything else. why should i let a crooked judge to make a decision to get $450 million. that allows me to spend very little on my campaign if i so

choose. i might spend a lot of money on my combine. but i should have that option. a crooked judge shouldn't say we're going to have you post a bond and take all the money i could be spending on the campaign or other things if i want to do other things. so we were ratified by the professionalism of the opinion today. i thought it was very -- i think it's a very important opinion for new york. the only thing that's going to really solve that problem is when i win, because you're going to have to win. no company is going to be coming to new york if i don't win that case. that case is a scam, it's a sham and a hoax. >> did you ever accept money on the foreign government to pay the bonds -- >> no, i don't do that. i think you'd be allowed to. if you go borrow from a big bank, many of the banks are outside -- the biggest banks actually are outside our country so you could do that. i don't need to borrow money.

i built a great company. i don't want to have a crooked judge named engoron and a crooked, horrible -- the worst -- i would say without question attorney general in the country. the most obnoxious and the worst attorney general in the whole country. she did it for political reasons. go back and take a look at her ads. we will stop trump. she knows nothing about me. i never heard of her. she was advertising and took ads saying we will stop trump, we will stop him, stop him. vicious. i said, boy, that's a bad one. then i looked, she got elected. then she tried to do it with the governor, and it didn't work. she went after the current governor who is much more talented than she is. she went after the current governor, she was very nasty. she polled at about 3%. after six or seven weeks she pumped out of the race. she ran for governor on what she was doing to me. she thought that would work. it didn't work. i just think it's very important

that, you know, this is a time when businesses have a choice to go to a lot of places, including other countries. they don't have to stay in our country, but they can certainly go also to a lot of other states. a lot of people going to texas, florida, tennessee, north carolina, south carolina. you have a lot of competition. you shouldn't be persecuting people that have done a great job. i paid $300 million approximately in taxes over the years. that's a lot of money. you're going to lose all those people that pay that money. you won't have a state anymore. they won't be able to do it. >> -- do you plan to testify -- >> which hearing? >> trial -- >> i don't know you're going to have a trial. i don't know how you can have a trial like this in the middle of an election, a presidential election. again, this is a biden trial. these are all biden trials because coangelo works for biden. can you imagine they take a guy out of doj and put him into the

attorney general's office and then into the manhattan d.a.'s office to go after trump? these are all biden trials. i don't know if you're going to have it. i think we'll get some court rulings. >> but will you testify if that trial goes forward? >> i wouldn't have a problem testifying. i didn't do anything wrong. >> would you with concerned that a conviction, if you are convicted, could cost you the election -- >> it can also make me more poplar. the people know it's a scam. there's no trial. there's a biden trial. coangelo, the man who stood up, had the nerve to stand up and take over -- he's been sitting in the background for the last year. today he went right up front because they figured he buffaloed the whole public and the writers, including you people. he got a buffaloed. time, people forget with time. they don't have good memories. i do. they don't have good memories. but colangelo from the doj was

put there to go after trump. today he stood up and took over the whole office. he's been running the thing, signing the let trs, doing things for a long time. nobody has ever seen anything like it. this is all done by the democrat party and by biden and his group. i don't know if it's biden because i don't know if biden is sharp enough. i don't know if biden knows what's happening. maybe he does. he probably does. this is all done by biden and the thugs that work for biden. it's a very bad thing, a very dangerous thing for our country. thank you all very much. >> so donald trump, once again, stating things that are not true or are self-contradictory. let me give you a couple of quick examples here. he was asked specifically about the timing of securing bond, the bond now reduced to $175 million. he did not answer that question. he had in a statement said he would post that in cash or bonds

or security or whatever is necessary very quickly within the ten days the judge has given him in this extension. then he said, i have a lot of cash, much more than that. i want to use that to get elected. so the logical question that our garrett haake then asked is are you going to start using cash towards your campaign, to which he responded that's none of your business. adding, i don't need to borrow money. all along the argument he's made, his lawyers have made, his sons have made, is that he couldn't pay the bond that was in place previously, that he couldn't get anyone to back a bond. vaughn hillyard, matthew dowd and catherine christian are with us. vaughn, one statement that he wants to use his money to finance his campaign. is there any indication that that has happened or will happen? >> reporter: no. donald trump said the same thing

in 2020, chris, which is what prompted garrett's keen question. because donald trump in 2020 election suggested he was going to put in a great deal of campaign cash to ensure he had a second term and he never actually ended up spending any of his money. now we've seen over the course of the last week, and you heard him here again today suggest that because he is going to have to use cash as collateral to put up this $175 million bond in ten days, he will not have cash in order to put towards his campaign. during the 2024 election, he has not put any money towards his own campaign at this point for very clear reasoning. there is a cash crunch for him on the personal side, though he's now suggesting that there is enough and needs to get a bond in order to satisfy this $175 million appeal. of course, donald trump repeatedly this morning has now said he appreciates and is thanking the five-member panel

of the appellate court for ruling in his favor. of course, the appeals court when they do hear the full appeal from donald trump, this is part of how the justice system works in america, is that the appeals court will hear his appeal on judge engoron's initial ruling wii would satisfy all of his claims that somehow this initial trial was rigged against him. to be also clear, to your point, what you guys were getting at here, chris, all the statements he's making around this alleged scheme over the hush money payments stemming from the 2016 election, donald trump is not actually responding to the integrity of the actual 34 counts against him other than telling the masses that there is no crime committed, that these are not actually crimes. it is going to be a jury that determines whether he is convicted of these 34 counts. so donald trump, you heard him say the most important thing to him this year is in seven months

being elected president of the united states, or there will be no business in new york city, or the rule of law will come to an end. democracy as we know it will come to an end. this is part of donald trump's appeal to the electorate at large, these very criminal trials. in his mind it doesn't matter whether a jury found him to have sexually abused e. jean carroll or not, or whether this jury, come april or may, finds him guilty of falsifying business records to further the crime of michael cohen covering up the alleged hush monies to stormy daniels ahead of the 2016 election that amounted to an in-kind contribution that could have very well helped elect him president of the united states. as we saw him say at his property on wall street, he's going to try to use this criminal trial against him to further his political cause. his political cause, winning the white house, may be the one thing, if he is found guilty by a jury here in lower manhattan that keeps him from going to

prison. >> vaughn hillyard, thank you so much. we appreciate that. let me go to matthew dowd. matthew, look, whether or not he uses his own money and as has been rightfully pointed out, he certainly has a history of that. he has a trial coming up. so now that we know something that we didn't know before, the questions that have been roiling out there, would or would not donald trump face any of these criminal trials before the election now seems to be answered in the after formative, barring something we are not foreseeing, a month from now we'll see jury selection start. what potentially do you think it means for the campaign, not just for donald trump but also for team biden who must navigate around it? >> well, first, can we all chip in, chris, and buy vaughn an msnbc weather jacket. the blizzard of bs he has to walk through every day including

today, yeoman's work that he has to process and go through. bravo to vaughn for all the stuff he does and through this process of listening to this stuff from donald trump. i'm glad you pointed out that he has no history of using his own money, not only for the campaign, but just evidence he won't even use his own money to pay lawyers to defend him. all he's using is political efforts to pay the lawyers to defend him, let alone using his own money to pay for a campaign, as you say, he has no history of. i think this trial april 15th, if it goes forward as it looks like it will, is probably the most important pivot part of the campaign in the course of this. we have seen nothing thus far change the course of the race. the race has been just about dead even for the last six or seven months in the course of this. once these two people, biden and trump sewed up the nomination,

it's still dead even. the result of the trial to me is one of the few things that can seriously adjust this race and how voters will react to an actual conviction as opposed to an indictment. so far indictments don't seem to have changed in peoples' minds. a conviction, according to the polling, it may bell change peoples' mind. the trump campaign understands that and i think the biden campaign understands that. before the two conventions we may actually have a conviction of donald trump, and no one really knows the real impact of that. but for me, take the deb baelts, potential debates between the two presidential campaigns and put them aside. that to me is the most important part, pivot of this campaign is where will that actually have impact? >> yeah, and i think you and i will agree on this. you as an insider, me as someone who has covered them for many

years, there's nothing that makes any campaign more nervous, the kind of things they cannot control and certainly the outcome of any trial is something that is out of their hands. catherine christian, any time there's a delay, and this is, again, a 30-day delay, ten days more for him to have to pay in particular, the interest mounts, right? $110,000, $111,000 every day. and trump owes more on legal fees. on one side, delay, delay, delay. that means lawyers have to be paid, paid, paid. what kind of pressure is all this putting on him, on his legal team financially as well as politically, as mathew points out? >> well, he just said he has a lot of money, so i guess there's none. >> a lot of cash, much more than $175 million he said. >> yeah. he has four open indictments and all of those lawyers i presume working diligently. they expect to get paid.

they're not doing it pro bono. he has to put $176 million in escrow, that's a lot of cash that is now out of his pocket or wherever it's going to come from. yes, a lot of financial pressure despite what he says. >> matthew dowd, thank you. catherine christian, please stay with me. we have so much more to talk about in 60 seconds. former president trump's bond gets reduced by $300 million. but will he be able to pay that amount in spite of what he says? that's next. e of what he says? that's next. new science shows listerine is 5x more effective than floss at reducing plaque above the gumline. for a cleaner, healthier mouth. ahhhhh. listerine. feel the whoa! [ serene music playing ] ahhhhh. welcome to the wayborhood. the wayfair vibe at our place is western. my thing, darling? shine. gardening. some of us go for the dramatic.

how didn't i know wayfair had vanities in tile? [ gasps ] this. wow! do you have any ottomans without legs. sure. you'll flip for the poof cart. in the wayborhood, there's a place for all of us. ♪ wayfair. every style. every home. ♪ new and unexpected ruling for donald trump as he faces a ticking clock on his $454 million civil fraud judgment, a new york appeals court today deciding it will accept that much smaller bond, $175 million, agreeing to block collection if he puts it up within ten days.

so, while he now has more time, trump will still be forced to answer the question does he or doesn't he have the money? this is what he said just moments ago. >> greatly respect the decision of the appellate division, and we will abide by that. we'll put up cash or bond very quickly, securities, cash or bond, whatever it is, we'll put it up very quickly. we have a lot of cash. you know i do because you looked at my statements. you've been examining my statements for a long time. and i have much more than that in cash. but i would also like to be able to use some of my cash to get elected. >> so just a little while ago, letitia james, the attorney general put out a new statement saying donald trump is still facing accountability for his staggering fraud. the court already found that he engaged in years of fraud to falsely inflate his net worth and unjustly enrich himself, his family and his organization. the $464 million judgment plus

interest against donald trump and the other defendants still stands. so now it's ten days from now that trump could face the grim possibility that letitia james could freeze his assets or seize properties which may well touch off yet another long and complicated court fight. nbc's yasmin vossoughian is outside the courthouse in new york city. also joining us, sue craig, investigative reporter for "the new york times" and an msnbc contributor. back with us is catherine christian. i want to start with you, if i can, sue, because the question here is how much money does donald trump have now that it's $175 million, can he pay it? does anybody have the answer to that? >> i'm sort of a bit of i'll believe it when i see it person. we'll see it in ten days if he can put it up or sooner. it was interesting to hear the tone of his view on his position over the last few days. it felt like on the weekend the sky was falling.

he had eric trump, his son, on tv practically screaming about how unfair this is. and then today it sounded like it was more of a parking ticket. it sounds like from what donald trump says, he's going to plan to pay in cash. let's see how he does it. it was interesting if he does plan to pay in cash to note that in the e. jean carroll case where he had to also put up money for the appeal, he put it up in the form of a bond. it's cheaper to do it with cash because there's no fees associated, he can just put it up. now, when i think about this it's gone from 400 to $500 million to $175 million. and the appeals court, for those who haven't looked up the opinion, there is no reason why they adjusted it down at all. we're sort of left won serg what happened and it's probably a lot of people are wondering why, and they're just not explaining it.

it does make you wonder how this is going to go for donald trump on appeal. he's certainly happen, with reason, because of that. >> he's happy about it. obviously when you're talking about a 60%, essentially, cut in what he owes. having said that, you pointed out there was the $91 million bond he had to pay in the e. jean carroll case. that's money or property or whatever that he doesn't have to put against this. i'm just wondering if donald trump -- i wonder if donald trump knows exactly how much money he has. i mean it's a constantly -- >> he knows down to the decimal point. >> he does know down to the decimal point. >> i'm sure he does. >> wouldn't answer the question when he was asked directly the question -- let me read it -- about whether or not he could talk about the timing of securing the bond, he didn't answer that question even though he said in a statement he could

do it within the ten days. >> it's frustrating for people listening because it's a privately held company and we don't know how much cash he has on hand at any given moment. you can look back in time and you can see he's gotten proceeds from things like, for example, he sold a hotel in washington a few years ago and got more than $100 million for that. there's other things where there's money coming in. we don't know the draws on his cash. it's frustrating. you can see -- "the new york times" obtained decades of his tax returns. we know most of his businesses lose money and he has to inject capital actually to keep them going. his exact cash position you don't know. he sounded pretty confident today that he could meet this. that's sort of what we're left with. it went from the sky is falling to, like i said, basically he's got pay a parking ticket at this point. >> all right. yasmin, what more can you tell us about this ruling and what it mean mean for donald trump?

>> reporter: so ten days' time, that's how much time he has to pay out, $175 million as you were just talking about. he has to still have an independent compliance officer within his company. however, donald trump, along with his sons as well, can continue to operate as chief operating officers and/or leaders of the corporation. this also came out of this ruling which is somewhat of a win for the former president as he sees this as an injustice. i will say, amidst all of this, especially with what's happening behind me and the trial date set for april 15th, we're learning about the value of truth social and the trump media company and how that can raise the former president's network as of tomorrow when it begins to be publicly-traded. $3 billion. whether or not he can use his shares in that social media company as collateral still in question. he'd have to seek out the approval from the board of truth

social. but on the board is donald trump jr. along with three other individuals who served in the trump administration. so it's likely they would approve if he wanted to pull shares from there -- pull collateral, i should say, from there. again, to sue's point, whether or not he actually has the cash, despite the fact he has that and then some is really in question when he looks to that ten-daytime period in which he needs to pay up. >> catherine, obviously there is a possibility. we don't know how big a possibility that come ten days, he may not have the money to secure the bond, the $175 million. letitia james made it clear she was ready to go, if he could figure out how to get $454 million, one presumes for her, too, 175 million, how is she approaching this new ruling. >> if he doesn't come up with

the money in the ten days and he also has to perfect his appeal, she will start the process that she would have started tomorrow if he hadn't come up with the money, if he didn't get this reprieve by the appellate court. i think the appellate court -- some people have been critical of them. they probably said where is he going and where are these buildings going? remember, there's a monitor in place here. >> an independent monitor. >> former federal judge barbara jones. this company can't do any financial maneuvers or transactions without her approval. so that could also be a reason. they even stated in their decision that the federal monitor still stays in place. that could be a reason why they do this. >> yasmin vossoughian and sue craig, thank you both. catherine, you're going to stay with me. new efforts by the yauntd nations toward a cease-fire in gaza. what sources are telling us about the possibility of that actually happening. we'll head to tel aviv next.

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a high-level israeli delegation is no longer going to be visiting the white house and the state department after the u.s. did not veto a u.n. security council cease-fire resolution. the u.s. actually ab stained from that vote this morning, but that allowed the resolution calling for an immediate humanitarian cease-fire in gaza for the rest of ramadan and the unconditional release of all hostages to go through. the move by the u.s. allowed the resolution to pass for the first time since october 7th when the war began. this all comes as nbc news has learned from an israeli official that israel believes the chances of a cease-fire deal in the near future are 50/50 right now. nbc's allie raffa is near the white house. nbc's raf sanchez is in tel aviv. also with me is marc

polymeropoulos former chief of operations in europe and eurasia and a security and national intelligence office. >> the first reaction we heard from the white house came in realtime as national security council spokesperson admirable john kirby was holding a call with reporters when he heard of the news of this cancellation of this meeting. kirby saying he was very disappointed that u.s. officials wouldn't have the opportunity to speak with their israeli counterparts about the alternative plans they have for not going through with an invasion of rafah. the israelis are saying this meeting was canceled because the u.s. shifted its policy in abstaining from that vote, that u.n. vote on a ceasefire resolution. kirby, though, stressing that the u.s. has not shifted its policy, saying that the only reason the u.s. ab stained from this vote was because that

resolution didn't include specific language condemning hamas for its actions on october 7th. he says that was the only reason that the u.s. decided to abstain from that vote. now, there was never a guarantee, chris, that u.s. officials would be able to change the minds of the israeli officials during these meetings, but this cancellation, no doubt, adds a whole new layer of complications for the white house. we know netanyahu in recent days has renewed that pledge to invade raffa. we do know in lieu of these delegation meetings that have now been canceled that israeli defense minister gallant is scheduled to be at the white house to meet with senior administration officials later today. obviously those conversations he's going to have taking on a whole new significance after this cancellation today. >> raf, from the perspective of the israeli government, what does this mean? >> reporter: well, chris, there was applause in the u.n.

security council room as this resolution passed. there's been a wave of statements from around the world welcoming the fact that nearly six months into this war the u.n. security council has overcome its gridlock and managed to vote for a resolution calling for a ceasefire, calling for an unconditional release of hostages. the reality is at this hour there's no indication that this resolution is actually going to change the facts on the ground. the israeli government says it will not cease-fire despite this resolution and it will continue to fight until hamas is destroyed and until the hostages are hamas, for its part, is welcoming the passage of this resolution, but it is not agreeing to immediately and unconditionally release the hostages as called for. so it is not at all clear that what happens through the language of diplomatic niceties in new york is going to affect the brutal reality on the ground right now.

what this is going to have an impact on is the already deep, deep strains in the u.s./israel relationship. prime minister netanyahu making clear he is furious about this resolution. a quick reminder, on friday, the u.s. put forward its own resolution at the u.n. security council which explicitly linked a cease fire to the release of hostages. today's resolution does not do that. and the israelis making very clear they are angry, they are accusing the biden administration of backtracking. they are calling off that delegation, heading to washington. the u.n. secretary general and others around the world are saying this resolution needs to be implemented, saying that failure would be unforgivable, unforgivable for the hostages, unforgivable for the more than a million palestinian civilians inside of gaza who are at risk

of imminent famine right now. it is not clear, as i said, chris, that this resolution is going to bring any immediate relief to anybody, chris. >> so if that is the case, mark, and you have on one side, benjamin netanyahu, he's furious at the united states, for people who don't necessarily understand diplomatic speak. it was a big move, the first move since the beginning of all of this that the united states made in that direction by deciding to abstain from that vote. on the other hand, we have joe biden who's extraordinarily unhappy with benjamin netanyahu, the ongoing escalation of civilian deaths, the ongoing escalation of hunger and famine. where does that leave this relationship, and where does that leave the war. >> it's interesting. for many of us, that's not totally unexpected. the u.s. is going to take some type of steps. there were harsher measures contemplated.

i never thought that would occur. perhaps this was the biden administration's way of expressing displeasure. netanyahu has thrown a fit. it's a lot of performative theater, i think, for his own concerns inside israel. two things are occurring, the israeli defense minister is in washington meeting with senior administration officials to talk about weapons armament requirements to pursue the war and also to talk about rafah. it's not like we cut off the bilateral relationship. last piece on this, while all eyes were on new york, the epicenter is in doha, in which the cease fire for hostages agreement is critical. it would do several things, and i know the israelis said 50%, i think it's probably closer. first of all, it would get aid into the beleaguered palestinian people at the same time. we need to see the hostages released, including americans, and a final piece, this would stop a downward spiral in u.s. israeli relations. a cease fire agreement in which we see humanitarian aid in, we see the hostages out.

that really, i think, is front and center on the administration's plate, a lot of drama and a lot of theater, you know, inside israel with netanyahu and his domestic concerns. >> so your suggestion is that not only it's performative theater but it really, in fact, will not impact the possibility of a cease fire deal? which you think is better than 50/50? >> i don't think it will. i mean, you can make an argument that somehow hamas might think they're more emboldened. really, i think the cease fire deal is something both sides want. we're close. the dispute has to do with the number of palestinian prisoners who are going to be released. israel has acquiesced on allowing palestinians to go back up to the north. i think we're close. i don't think this u.n. resolution is going to have much of an effect. it's symbolic. it shows that israel is certainly isolated internationally, but in terms of the actual cease fire negotiations, i think both sides see this in their interests. i think it's going to happen.

i think it's better than 50%. >> ali vitali, raf sanchez, and marc polymeropoulos, thank you. and while we follow all of the breaking developments of the trials of donald trump in new york, fulton county d.a. fani willis has a new message for the former president in her case against him. what she says she means when she says the train is coming. but first, you can watch the best parts of our show anytime on you tube, go to msnbc.com/jansing. stay close. more "chris jansing reports" right after this. s jansing repo" right after this i already got a pneumonia vaccine, but i'm asking about the added protection of prevnar 20®. if you're 19 or older with certain chronic conditions like asthma, diabetes, copd, or heart disease, or are 65 or older,

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♪♪ welcome back to another hour of "chris jansing reports." ahead for us, more time to pay less money. donald trump scoring a major victory after an appeals court lowers his civil fraud bond by nearly $300 million. what he now owes and when. on the other hand, the date is set for the first criminal trial for the former president, the implications of the timing and what had the judge duking it out with trump's team and his hush money case. and on this manic monday, new reaction from the former president as his legal battles collide on the day that's wild, even by his standards. our nbc news reporters are following all of the latest