one of the workaround the administration has found resulting in a total of 870,000 public service workers so far and nearly 4 million americans total who have had their student loan debt erased. let's be clear, folks. this is a very big deal. nearly 6 billion dollars of debt wiped off the books. not big corporations to teachers, nurses, firefighters and a total of nearly 144 alien dollars cleared off the decks for 4 million americans overall eric americans who can now use that money to buy a home, pay rent, build up their savings, start a business or just breathe a little easier. this is life-changing for a lot of the bond it's why you vote and why you keep pushing politicians to give their promises after you vote. that the readout. all in with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight on all in -- >> from should crowd fund this find. 1 million supporters.

this would cover the fine. >> he still has a structured healthy and she needs cash now. >> this is just the time to step up. his good for the money. >> tonight, new court ordered restrictions on how trump can pay his half alien dollar fine. >> is there any effort on the part of your team to secure this money to another country, saudi arabia or russia? >> been, well trumps support for national abortion been means for women and the election and >> people are agreeing on 15 and i'm thinking in terms of that word >> senator brown on the attempt to remove him from the senate. and it new polling that looks like a biden. >> i'll be darned. that's amazing. when all in starts right now.

good evening. and chris hayes. just over a week into the general election now that trump and biden are the parties presumptive nominees. really campaigning. traveling to five states touting his record. today he was in houston, texas where he spoke about the booming economy and told a joke that's been getting a lot of laughs on the trip. i know not everyone is feeling enthusiasm. they defeated looking man came up to me and said i'm being crashed by debt. i'm completely wiped out i had to sam sorry. i cannot help you. the president has been slinging zingers. as republican with half $1 billion in legal fund. the clock is ticking of the largest of those. the $454 million went in new york finding trump liable for lying about his wealth to secure loans. he has four days to post the

bond covering the massive amount pretty neat to secure it by monday, march 25th in order to avoid doing the actual judgment while he appeals rated in a filing earlier this week, his lawyers claimed it was impossible to do so and that he had been rejected by more than 30 companies. the attorney general's office disputed that, noting in a reply that trump would break up the amount he is and multiple smaller bonds, citing some precedent of other settlement network that way. they also suggest that the problem is of trump's making since the fraudulent lien laded the value of his properties which he now needs to use as collateral. today the judge overseeing the case ordered the trump organization to informant court appointed financial officer of any attempts to secure the bond. it also requires the company to inform her of any request required, information in response to request, anything made from the trump

organization in connection to receiving such funds, and a personal defendants and obligations trump may acquire. it seems like a good moment when donald trump is under so much pressure and so vulnerable and obviously desperate and might the next president. not to mention the fact that he's already been deemed too untrustworthy to do business in new york state. trump is hoping to basically be bailed out the court. his lawyers are pushing for them to intervene and come in and basically say he does not have to pay, claiming a letter today that having the bond would cause him irreparable harm. if he doesn't get the answer he wants from the appeals court, that could be today or tomorrow. cannot secure the bond by monday. the wheels are already in motion in the state of new york for the start to season trump's asset. new york attorney general

letitia james has formally registered the $454 million judgment against trump and westchester county in new york city where trombones to valuable properties. it will allow james to more easily secure the liens should she decide to do so on the trump national golf westchester and the mostly undeveloped 212 acre seven springs estate. a large gulf port, a 101 foot waterfall, 75 thousand square foot clubhouse. the town has valued the property at $15.8 million, which is in the grand scheme of things, not a ton of money. the seven springs estate was a major focus of the case, ironically or not. this judge ruling that trump wildly inflated its value. in 2015, the property was appraised for $56.5 million. trump claimed it was working is

-- was worth as much as $290 million. i think the lower amount will probably be counted towards the penalty. he is also registered in manhattan with a verdict came down in the x president owns trump towers valued at $90 million, an office at wall street valued at $200 million and a condominium building at 19 $.8 million. the attorney general is not even limited to new york. some of his most valuable properties are out of the state including mar-a-lago emma the golf resort in miami and the golf resort in l.a. so the trump organization at least in new york has a functioning independent ongoing can turn is kaput. it has a federal judge. on top of all that, here is the thing. the ex-president is hemorrhaging cash with all of

his legal fees. new filings with the federal election commission showing the save america political action committee. the lack of better words, slush fund. it's a bank account to pay his lawyers. they dropped $6.9 million in legal fees in february alone. that comes out to a whopping $238,000 per day. think about all of the lawyers, all the cases, all the filings at 238 thousand. a quarter million dollars a day. that sounds about right and we all know this is basically what trump's presidential campaign is all about, getting back to the white house where he would be protected from legal peril that right now is getting him drive. >> an investigator and journalist for many years. the author of the big chief, how trump placed himself and his family. author and part of the civil division of new york are good

to have you here. david, let me start with you. i will start with a question that i was asking myself yesterday, which is, i have been through this enough times that i always think he is going to get out of it somehow. there is some favorable judge, some way out or the appeals court will come in and say yeah, you can't do this. what is your read on how up against it he is, having covered it now for decades including when he was really squeezed in bankruptcy back in that weight '80s? >> i think he may well pull a rabbit out of the hat on monday. he has done it before. but if he does, it means that we have a potential president of the united states that would be beholden to someone in a way that we've never seen before. the framers of our constitution were very careful to insulate the president from foreign money and from money from state government.

he's not fond of both of those parts of the constitution. if it gets money from saudi arabia with putin's criminal gang, personal that so that we don't, but we would have a president utterly and completely compromised donald trump my nine years ago, said to everybody, i have more than $10 billion and i don't need any money to campaign and i won't be beholden to anybody and we are now seeing that was a house of cards. the exact opposite will occur if he gets back to the white house. >> i want to emphasize this point. it's the opposite of that whole stick from 2015. i'm not beholden. he is beholden. he is wildly beholden. he is desperate to anyone who can write him a big enough check. to that end, i was a little confused on the technical details about this sort of assigned financial monitor.

my take away from it was basically it does make sense to have someone to david's point watching how this is all going to go down when the reason you are paying the penalty is that you have been deemed too unethical to operate a business in new york state. and guilty of fraud. we want to make sure that you don't get up to some sketchy business in paying the penalty. >> the business itself is a fraud story in addition to donald trump and what's been held in this case. here is the thing. i just want to say to david's point. this is a different rabbit and a different hat. and it's because there have been findings, both against the company in terms of its own criminal liability and now against donald trump and his sons. the purpose of the monitor is exactly as you are imagining. it is to say we cannot trust the thing you say or do and we now have to protect all the interests of those who can be harmed including in this case what the judge is basically saying is look, there is a

finding against you. you are obligated to pay it. we will make sure no funny stuff happens by making sure there is a monitor checking to ensure anything, attempts to secure the bond, or if you try to liquidate and sell any of your properties emma we are making sure we can account for the money and nothing wrong happens. >> and others are aboveboard and arm's-length transactions. it's also the case to zoom in on an important detail. they need the bond by monday. basically to say the bond stands in for the penalty during the course of the appeal. most legal experts i have talked to say there is really not much to appeal here. they don't have a strong appeal. the actual amount of money is going to be necessary. he is going to have to come up with $454 million at some point. the bond will not do

eventually, right? >> know. and if he strategically files for personal bankrupt, which can be explained to his followers as the deep state marked us fascist. that will only delay, but not at the payment of what is owed here. two years ago, when all this began, he said he expected the report, it's terrible, fascist, marxist and new york are going to hit him with terrible penalties. did he act smart? of course not. he is a student to parties all weekend and wakes up monday morning and goes out, my term paper is due at noon. it's funny. just like that. it just garbage. >> what is striking is having read their filing from that they can't -- it did feel like this didn't who has not done their homework grade or judge, you've got to help us out. we can't do it. the response is this is on you.

you brought yourself to this position. >> you don't get to get out of liability by saying it hurt you to be liable. the not how this works. >> has precise arguments as they are making in the filing. >> exact, which is why a lot of us are saying first of all, you are trying to be protected against protecting those that you have been found to owe money to. because that is what the bond is. they are trying to stop him from even having a bond. with the attorney general is doing his attacking properties by getting a lien saying everybody knows if you file bankrupt, we get to take first. we get paid first so that we are getting paid back for this liability before any of your other editors. all of this is very bad for donald trump. it's the bottom line. but you don't get out of this is bad for me when you're responsible for creating what's bad for you. >> on the bankruptcy point,

again, i'm not an expert on this by any stretch of the imagination but i think these kinds of civil penalties are particularly difficult to wash out. in bankruptcy, they basically get first in line. >> right. if donald were to fire bankruptcy, it would be entirely strategic to the way because he starts off with an automatic 45 day stay to anything that is not criminal. his object is to get to the day after the election, november 6. with alex jones, it's been over two years since he filed bankruptcy and has not paid a penny to the sandy hook lantos. >> is a great point. the way, again, all of this is about delay. to get through, to get yourself elected president of the united states so you can do with multiple civil penalties against you and multiple criminal charges and indictments hanging over your

head and sort of declare yourself king. >> this goes back to your point of both. is there an interest in donald trump winning this election? sure. it does not help him with anything. but does not help him. i would also say this. look, trump it would be very interesting to me if he did file for bankruptcy. as much as david is right that he could spend it, for the personal -- can you imagine the attack ads will all of the statements you made about what a great business man he is and now he can't come up with half $1 billion when he's got many billion dollars. >> is a fascinating thing. to david's point, might be his best chance of delay. thank you very much. fresh off the well-received state of the union. the binding can and get new gear and evidence that this may be moving in his favor. . ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪

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democratic party voters, donors and operatives are, to generalize, and anxious bunch. they've been hammering about polling showing trump slightly ahead of biden. understandably because the stakes are high. the position of folks in the binding companions always been that everyone needed to calm down. that basically most american voters are not paying attention to the general election. but that has not sunk until he will actually be the republican

nominee and development for the country. there is some very preliminary advances in the last two weeks and waiver of that theory. it been just over a week since trump and biden secured their respective nominations. two weeks since biden's powerful state of the union address that left republicans hurting so bad there now musing about just now and -- never allowing them to give another one. extremist policies of trump getting much higher media coverage despite saying and doing the same thing for years now. his ohio rally over the weekend has dominated the news cycle. it is now on people's faces and it does look like americans are remembering why they don't like the guy. this will be a post race either way. recent polling shows biden neither gaining nor winning ground. he's in the margin of error and the carolina. his approval is nudging up ever so slightly. just a little bit.

there should be no illusions. it can do. post race. hundred or thousand voters. and the theory that biden voters have not been paying attention until recently does have something to. tim miller served as spokesman for the rnc. i want to be clear here, polling is noisy. we're taking snapshots in time. it being noisy does not stop people from freaking out. it's early in this. what do you think probably of that theory? what does this tell the biden folks about their position as we are entering the real general election? >> is also a senior and i have been having a conversation about over the last couple of months, as well when you look at the polling data. i think our theory of the case is look. i made this for a while. the early poland showing that biden is a lot closer to the

floor than the ceiling while trump is a lot closer to the ceiling on the floor. what that means for the layman is that biden has more room for growth than trump and when the campaign is really engaged and voters start coming attention, not to mention when the biden campaigns search using it sizable resource advantage that they have right now over trump and republicans. to actually message until the guru. it's about who's got a good sure to tell. biden is stories sell. when you hear those stories, you will see movement. don't follow love or fall in hate with the polling numbers because those polling numbers will continue to change. it is instructive, not predictive. >> the hobbyhorse i have been writing, if you will indulge me for a few seconds, is basically that you know, he has really

receded from people's minds. because he is really so almost uniquely odious, you can't actually remember how bad he is until he is in front of your face all the time. i really mean that and i thought that the ohio coverage was disruptive and disrespectful. it's been a long time since he did a very trump thing at a rally to produce the kind of news cycle. i think we will see more of that. and my occam's razor here is people don't like that. what do you think? >> i concur with your hobbyhorse. hope you didn't bring me for the condom course. the cold air in put on the campaign. pessimistic by nature. more trump is bad for trump should be covering his speeches more. people need to listen to them. there is data and evidence that we've seen in campaigns and in the news that show has numbers again. have anecdotal evidence from one of the swing voting groups with former republican friends.

nine years of this evidence. called me after a tracy thing. does a crazy new cycle. like we cannot do this with this guy anymore. even right. well, i am a little bit worried about the border. if he's not in the face every minute, they start to forget how much they hate him. they will have to suffer through having his face and all of our faces as much as possible. >> were to receive the places that you think they're revising on messaging? they've been hammering the fans about future policies are like a $10,000 tax credit for homeowners and things like that. a minimum tax for billionaires. these are popular policies. the whole well. do you think this kind of meat and potatoes stuff is where they need to be focusing and hammering? >> it's all of the above.

one of the things i think you have to do is say look, where is he struggling the most from his 2020 performance? struggling the most with younger voters. and what younger voters constantly say is that they don't see or they have not heard any of the things that he has done. i will also remind people that going in the 2012, voters were not where they needed for the obama campaign. we voted for change. we don't see or feel any change but we have a story to tell. with these younger voters, biden has a story to tell. another round of student loan forgiveness, environmental the and infrastructure policy going into environmental issues. he does have a good story to tell. got to tell both stories. >> someone famously said, elections are all about the future. he's got to pivot and talk about his future plans for building america. also to the point contrasting

and reminding people over and over and over again that is not only a terrible person but he is not aware of for the vast majority of our kids are on most of their issues >> one of the things we spoke to was the fundraising advantage in recovering the surgeon frustration trump burning $250,000 a day on legal fees. i have to ask you this. there is a long back and forth about the rnc will use the rnc as a vessel to pay his legal bills. absolutely not. today, reporting on the joint fundraising agreement the political action committee that is the former president's legal bills before the rnc gets a cut that according to a fundraising communication attained by the associated press. it looks like they will be skimming off the top for the legal bills/slush fund. >> was at his daughter in law being installed there or the

fact that the pack that he was running was spending over six figures a day. six figures a day on his legal fund. so they're running out of cash. i'm always with the view that money matters a little bit less in the presidential level. there is just a lot of diminishing returns they are. that said, there is a $100 million gap between biden and trump. at some level, the gap gets so big where biden is messaging and trump is just paying lawyers. i do think it will have an impact. >> i agree. my bigger thing is honestly the dependence and begging for billionaires to fund you actually hurts politically because you look supplicant, you look weak. >> now he is doing that. >> he needs a big check. >> thank you both. republicans are placing big bets on candidates with enormous personal wealth to flip the senate.

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the trump era republican party loves to brag about how it is the party of working- class voters. in practice, they operate in your single-minded service of large corporations and the extremely wealthy people who run them. the focus on the 1% extends to the actual candidates

themselves, who they recruit. as the new york times went up this morning, a lot of millionaires are running to help republicans retake the senate this cycle like jim justice in west virginia. former hedge fund ceo dave mccormick in pennsylvania. commercial lending executive in wisconsin and the working class state of ohio, but just nominated a millionaire car dealer to face incumbent three term senator sherrod brown who has dedicated his entire adult life to service actually helping the working class and according to the times he has a net worth of $260,000. he is running for reelection in a state that donald trump won twice and is among the most vulnerable democrats running for election this cycle. the six could not be higher. a guy first profiled from

chicago magazine for in these times when i was 26 years old. senator, good to see you. >> that was a great article back then. >> thank you, thank you. >> it was fun talking to you. just about where you were to come in from and what you're doing and slu in the future and i did not know msnbc but i knew something big something new. >> i appreciate that. the thing that i was the about his you will of this i was watching some of the debate in the primaries there and i read a profile of the junior senator and one thing that was really striking to me is that the vision you have the politics you had and the agenda you had which was to preserve manufacturing and strong union wage jobs, fighting for union people in the state of ohio. and much against nafta and the pro-tree. -- consensus of the democratic party. very much for industrial policy. that vision has really come around from being this kind of

weird thing at the margins. the center of the democratic party but republicans trying to get in on the action, too. >> i remember i went to johnny appleseed junior high in mansfield, ohio. i went to school with his sons and daughters. steelworkers and empire reeves and rubble workers at mansfield tire, electric workers, gm workers, autoworkers, carpenters, electricians, their sons and daughters are those jobs begin to leave when i was in high school. they went to find the cheapest wages in alabama and mississippi and then both parties and sold them out on these trade agreements and it was or what damage it did to the communities, to the families, to the sons and daughters that i went to school with. it's clear that democrats are back where we should be as a party fighting for workers in manufacturing. that's what i have always believed. it is what people want to hear in ohio. they want to see their senator do it.

>> you are part of the seminary times but you will be facing this with some very deep pockets and it will be an expensive race. i imagine they will spend a lot of money. super pacs with people writing seven-figure checks, i would imagine, in your race. what do you see as the key fight in this or the keyway that you understand the contrast with a guy who is going to have a lot of money behind him and the wind at his back and some ways? >> well, he is a guy trying to buy the senate seating. he is a guy who clearly looks out for himself. he's actually sediment to work with anybody i disagree with in the senate. i work with people i disagree with. we get the packed act to help 10,000 veterans already in ohio. it will be hundreds of thousand's. with today bill wood 100,000 workers pensions saved after visiting 60% cuts. repast infrastructure bill which is putting hundreds of thousands of labor union and

card-carrying trade union members, building trades people. all of that. he really takes it to the next level, that ohio passes as you know by 13 points. you've covered it. he thinks he knows better and that's what some of these candidates are like. he thinks he knows better. he is still for the national abortion ban. ignoring what the voters in ohio want and six weeks with no exception. the contours of the resort here. i don't really subscribe to the left and right progressive conservative. people know who i am. it's only whose side they are on and i will to make this fight. >> washington chain safety, speaking about working across the aisle, you and jd pants are working on a rail safety bill after the train derailment in east palestine, ohio. that bill has still not come up yet.

it seemed to have a lot of support but another railroad company has been fighting it tooth and nail and that you spent a lot of time in east palestine as the senator to those folks. how are those folks doing? >> i think it was the eighth or ninth time i just went back last week. they want to get their lives back to normal. they mostly have but i've fought to make sure they continue to do health monitoring paid for by norfolk southern because people don't really know. their arms broke out in rashes. they've talked a good game. they've been helpful sometimes. the got to commit to long-term health benefits. the exposure to that stuff. nobody really knows what it means. they essentially did a controlled burn that put the stuff into the air that did not need to be as it turned out. this is a company. typical wall street model. they laid off one third of their workforce. they paid huge bonuses to stock buybacks. they cut back on exceptions

with heat sensors for the wheel bearings and answers for the tracks. they continue to get their way far too often with congress. i hope they pass this bill in the next month or so but the railroad lobby is really strong, just like a drug lobby. it up and down and you know that. >> senator sharon brown in the state of ohio against bernie marino. >> thank you. go to the website. we need a huge grassroots effort. a genuine campaign surprise i did not see coming. donald trump's candidate moment on a national abortion ban and why it should have national implications ahead. implications ahead. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection

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(laughing) nice smile, brad. nice! thanks? crest 3d white. 100% more stain removal. crest. if you happen to be a frequent viewer of the program, you might be familiar with this chart. the picture it paints is as clear as it gets. there was a record spike in violent crime under donald trump in 2020. it shoots up at the left there. there has been a consistent decline since president joe biden took office. the thing about crime data, it takes a long time to aggregate. it's actually gotten worse over time. it based on preliminary information because it takes while for the full picture to come into focus. these stats trickle out before the fbi drops the final report in october for the year before.

here's the thing. the bureau just released some new data from 2023 indicating that there was indeed a massive drop in crime last year. according to one crime data analyst, when all said and done, 2023 will have likely seen the largest one year decline in murder that's ever been recorded. it's indisputable. the country is getting both safer, more prosperous in the last four years under president biden. it does not seem like the message is getting through. at least not for now. i think it true for a lot of reasons, generally related to media consumption. local news has a number of financial incentives to perfect fit on crime and they do it is usually for violent crime, often in a way disproportionate to actual statistics. right-wing cable news is an obvious political incentive to portray life and biden's america as negatively as

possible. >> crime is out of control. >> violent crime is out of control. >> crime is completely out of control. >> terms of control. >> is out of control. >> crime is out of control. we've become a lawless society. >> crime is out of control. i'm afraid to go to the mall. >> i think the media focus is one reason why this message is not getting through. some responsibility also falls in the biden administration at the which is notoriously not done a great job articulating the real tangible successes of his run. that's why earlier this week the administration released this statement tenant credit from the fbi's" things to the american rescue finish every republican in congress voted against one of the largest ever federal investment in writing and preventing crime any time in history. this investment is for delivering results. they're not just having the clinic crime but taking credit. they're pointing to legislative

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here is a thing to know about abortion in the republican party and they will ban it where they can wherever they can and that means if donald trump wins and republicans get the house and senate there will be a national abortion ban, i promise. earlier in this campaign i thought donald trump had enough

political instinct to say he wouldn't push a national ban and leave it to the states and then if he won he would sign it anyway. it now looks like he isn't smart enough to lie about it because he came out and endorsed a 15 week ban and two recent interviews including on the radio this week. >> people are agreeing on 15 weeks and i am thinking in terms of that and it would come up to something very reasonable, but people, even hardliners are agreeing it seems to be 15 weeks and seems to be a number of people are agreeing at. >> the biden campaign responded from a statement from a woman in texas who was 18 weeks pregnant making the miscarriage inevitable but was denied an abortion until she went into sepsis. >> she said i nearly died because the doctor couldn't having me the carry needed and donald trump is actively planning to ban abortion nationwide if elected inflicting

the same cruelty and chaos i've experienced on the same country. >> she is an opinion columnist joining me now. michelle, there is something that perfectly encapsulates the dynamic of abortion bans -- bans. people are throwing out 15, 14 and like it's an auction and it so utterly detached from reality but embodies the live control over women's lives that is represented by this movement. >> and complete contempt. i am sure that donald trump hasn't given two seconds of thought to the fact that, for example on a scan that will pick up all kinds of anomalies. and how babies are made but i don't think he knows anything

about how they are gestated and imagine having to go through the kind of anguish that amanda went through and she isn't the only one and we see these stories pop up and states all over the country. and i think if republicans have their way, that would be the law of the land in the entire united states. but imagine having your doctor force you to go into sepsis and turn you away from the emergency room because donald trump picked a number out of a hat because he came up with what he thought was a compromise between steve bannon and mike johnson, right? it must be reasonable he thinks. >> what is striking to me, though, and in a perverse way encouraging is that my fear would be he would just lie. i really thought he would just say we aren't doing a national ban but he knew full well the republican party would pass one

and insist on one if they won power. what is clear to me is those folks inside the party, for him to commit to something publicly and we see it play out in real time. >> i am a little bit reluctant to psychoanalyze donald trump too much and sometimes he says things because he is under pressure sometimes because even though he is a compulsive liar he also, in his weird way pretty modest about what is in his mind. so whether this was strategic capitulation or, again, a musing of somebody surrounded by people who are all completely committed to a national abortion ban is difficult to say. you are right. this was always going to happen. and again it's not just the 15 week number but we have, next week i believe a supreme court

argument about the abortion pill and the fda approval of the abortion pill. remember, this is because of that ruling by one of the judges that donald trump appointed in texas now going to be heard by the judges he appointed to the supreme court. so we could end up seeing the various sorts of restrictions and roadblocks that even go beyond that. >> on this national ban to return to your point and i do agree on the psychoanalyzing and the republican studies committee, a big group of house republicans release their budget plan including a 15 week number. so the kind of consensus view of the institutional party is coming around that but also the case that they have volunteered themselves for these amicus briefs and we want you to

uphold this lower court decision but there are four members of congress, republicans, who are mad about the department of veterans affairs making ivf available to servicemembers. we are writing to express strong objections about the recent announcement to expand in vitro fertilization to eligible unmarried veterans and veterans and same-sex marriages. here is the money quote. "ivf is morally dubious and should be subsidized by the american taxpayer. it is well know -- known the embryos are frozen at a significant cost and the others cruelly disregarded and this is the position of a huge part of the republican base even though they just spent weeks running away from this and pretending they know nothing about it after that alabama decision. >> right. that is why when a number of women who said it tried to pass protections for ivf, it was the

same set of republicans who said no, nobody wants to take this away and who wouldn't let those protections go through. and even though the republican study committee said that they have also endorsed of the life begins at conception act which enshrines the same fetal personhood law in the national law that was used to ban or restrict ivf in alabama. >> do you think we should get a campaign where abortion will be huge and consequential in this campaign. do you think we will have an actual honest, we are for national abortion ban and, no, we are not and i want to codify roe v. wade and i'm joe biden and i'm donald trump and i one national ban which i think would be clear fine and good for the country. >> i do also but my guess is donald trump will try to have it both ways or speak out of both sides of his mouth.

on the one hand he could say 15 weeks. but then he will say, we will come up with a compromise that everybody will be happy with and sometimes he will say he wants to leave it to the states and he is very slippery like that. it's important, i think, for democrats to nail him down as much as possible because people still have a hard time believing that donald trump cares about abortion. the point isn't what he cares about but the point is what he has done and will do. >> that is right. every state in the union, massachusetts, california, new york, they will do it if they have the power. a will do it and they are coming for you. thank you, michelle. >> that is all in on this thursday night and we start tonight. >> that's an important point that those who think