before we go, a picture to show you of iceland where a volcano has erupted with little warning for the fourth time since december. the lava is flowing towards a fishing town home to around 4,000 people, and the town as well as the popular tourist destination blue lagoon have been evacuated, and a state of emergency has been declared for southern iceland for obvious reasons there. that's it for me on this edition of alex witt reports. msnbc prime weekend is coming

welcome to prime time weekend point let's get right to the top stories this week. in a perfect world, we would not start where we are starting today. we would like to begin with the results of what amounts to a complete sideshow, a legal circus, a spectacle and a deliberate diversion. first and foremost, we should be clear that today's ruling from the fulton county superior court was a victory for the rule of law for fani willis herself. in the matter of the d.a.s relationship with special prosecutor, nathan wade, the ultimatum and noun -- amounted to this, leave way behind her hot the prosecution altogether. it turned out to be an easy choice for d.a. willis, a determined public figure. remember what she said when she announced the indictment. >> the states role in this process is essential to the

functioning of our democracy. georgia, like every state has laws that allow those who believe the results of an election are wrong, whether because of intentional wrongdoing or unintentional error to challenge those results in our state courts. the indictment alleges that rather than abide by georgia's legal process for election challenges, the defendants engaged in a criminal racketeering to overturn georgia's presidential election result. >> nothing that happened today changed any of that but all the same, d.a. fani willis accepted nathan wade's resignation meeting the case will move forward as planned. consider that even in losing, trump world got most of what it

wanted. as we speak, there are emails flooding inboxes, disingenuously shouting "look here, fani willis is corrupt ." there's no legitimacy to that but it goes beyond those attacks, considering the motion to remove tran 16 and wade from the case, filed january 8th. trumps team ran out the clock for two months, and exasperated the development, given what we discussed yesterday. that is how successful trump has been in deploying a topic -- a tactic of delay. it's a potential offramp for the disgraced ex-president and his legal troubles and eight months separate the american people from the prospect of that bid although, we should never forget what this case was about, a sitting president actively working to undermine the result of a free and fair election and here's what happened when it did.

>> calling for backup. >> they were peaceful people, these are great people. the crowd was unbelievable and i mentioned the love, the love in the air, i've never seen anything like it. >> despite hours of droning about what did or did not happen, that's what this is about. team trump came from otis for the king or the queen and they missed. game on. here to start us off on this extraordinary day of news again , some of our most favorite expert, the former lead

investigator for the january 6th committee is back, and we have lisa ruben, and the president of the national action network, and the host of the fast politics podcast and a special correspondent for vanity fair. i am catching up, still. i was out for a little bit and one of the things and catching up on is alan bragg's case, which is about trump allegedly having a relationship with a star while married and then paying, allegedly, money to cover it up so it did not come out ahead of an election. this is about two people who had a relationship in the middle of prosecuting the next president. sometimes it feels like we stare so closely at the trees that we miss the forest. >> exactly.

this is a distraction because it does not touch the core allegations in this case. this was not, none of the issues at stake in the ruling today bear in any way upon the conduct, the charged conduct of the defendants. this is a separate issue. it is, however, a legitimate issue because prosecutors have a higher duty. the judge goes on for pages in his opinion about the fact that prosecutors are held to a very high ethical standard and they cannot have any actual or apparent conflict of interest and there are ethical rules to this affect where prosecutors are held to a higher standard. this issue of the relationship between the district attorney and the special assistant district attorney who was leading the prosecution has been a huge distraction. it's really an unforced error because it does not touch the strong evidence of guilt, but

it caused a delay in getting to the courtroom. i think that the judge has made a sound choice to find that there is no evidence of actual conflict of interest, misconduct, but there is an appearance issue that the d.a. supervising persons whom she's had a romantic relationship with causes potential suspicion about whether she is making decisions in the interest of justice or a personal relationship. mr. wade stepping away makes sense and hopefully it allows them to move forward and get back to the core issues in the case, whether or not there is a racketeering conspiracy intended and that's where we need to get as we talk about, this time, for these allegations have their day in court, all the sideshows and motions to be resolved so we finally get to decide, a jury gets to decide whether or not this is prudent.

>> lisa ruben, you have the unofficial, official role of tracking the calendar. is there any sense? >> it's difficult for this to happen. as tim said, he counted the days, 67 from january 8 when this motion was filed to today. we've done nothing else in this case other than pay heed to these motions. scott mcafee, granted, a minor motion yesterday, one that got more price. i think it deserved a lot in terms of impact. he decided a small motion, but the bulk of this time has been taken up by what tim characterized, rightly, as a sideshow. how do we get back on track when we've lost the quarterback is a difficult proposition. it's unlikely this case is tried before the election unless some measures are taken

to, for example, triage, you pull off some defendants, you try it more than once, people plead out, except in those circumstances, i don't see how it happens. >> fani willis charged a really aggressive and tight set of facts, none of that is at issue, no one has anything to say about the facts in this case . again, before i stepped away, every other day someone was pleading guilty. this is, though, as tim is pointing out and others have pointed out, a successful sideshow for trump. he got the delay he needed. >> i think that what a lot of us should look into the other side of that, one side says that he wants to delay it until after the election, but the fact is that even if he does, he cannot dismiss or pardon himself from

state charges, in new york, with alvin brad, or with fani willis and fulton county. what i suggest is that maybe he or his attorneys believe he's going to be convicted. why would you stall unless you know you are going to be convicted and the evidence is so overwhelming? you are really stalling, you're going on trial, whether it is before or after the election. what you are stalling is going to jail. the other thing i think, some of his co-defendants are losers, because if he, if they had pulled fani willis could not try this and it had gone to another county, it may have never gone to court . rudy giuliani and everyone else charged would have had another day. they had a bad night last night because when they ruled today that fani willis could stay, that means rudy giuliani and everyone else have a day in

court and a day of probably conviction. i think that we are missing a lot of that so yes, i'd like to see it before the election but i know subliminally that donald trump must really feel he will be convicted. that's what he is stalling for. >> is interesting. there's not anything more to the legal strategy and because there are so many pieces, you can't analyze across the document case and the january 6 federal case and the georgia case and alan bragg's case, that there isn't a defense on facts. we know he tries all his issues in the court of public opinion. there is no pushback. >> what he did was put the justice system on trial. he said, this is a corrupt system, it's them, not me. he made this yet another campaign event. he also spent millions of dollars trying to delay.

every time, people are talking about fani willis and nathan wade, they're not talking about donald trump and fay collectors. >> that's interesting. what is the sort of, take me behind the curtain, what's the private gripe of prosecutors? you see trump dodging accountability on every front. >> prosecutors want their time in court. they would not have brought this case had they not believed that they are holding cards that will win the hand. they obviously feel strongly that they have strong evidence of criminal conduct and every day, as everyone in the studio is saying, we are not talking about that and we are not putting that to a jerry, and the presumption of innocence makes it more difficult. it gets worse the more time passes and the more things can go

wrong and arise, memories fade. we get less community interest. once prosecutors make a decision to charge, they want to go, they want to move the case and we are seeing that with talk text from the special counsel's office and the d.a.s office. exactly, a wrongly accused the defendant who is very anxious for his day in court to clear his name would be rushing to get to the courtroom. i remember senator stevens, do you remember? just before an election he held the government to burden of proof and said he wants his trial in 70 days because he wants an opportunity to clear his name. he was convicted but then there was evidence not disclosed, but it was a different approach to someone saying all right, you are charging me? i want my opportunity to rebut that. that's the route he took. it's the opposite, here, someone who has not articulated a substantive, cohesive defense and continues to try to avoid sitting at that table,

listening to evidence and having an opportunity to challenge it. i think it's telling. it's a political strategy, not a sound legal one. >> let me respectfully pushback. as a political strategy, i think you would point to the polls and say it's successful and it's a legal strategy where he points to the fact that there won't be a trial for the election and he believes he has a shot, so it seems to be successful on both fronts and what does the rule of law side do to protect the exploitation of delays, or is it not something that can be protect did, did it sort of rest on the good faith of its participants? >> yes, it dies and look, the system has built into it a lot of protections for charged defendants. they have an opportunity to bring forth motions and to make legal arguments and have those issues resolved. because we have a system that

presumes innocence and gives lots of procedural right to charge people, whether they are shoplifters or former presidents , that builds into the process a fair amount of potential delay . we would not even be talking about this if these investigations had been launched sooner. they could have been launched on january 7th of 2021 or january 21st, but they were not. we are close to the election because of reticence on behalf of federal and state prosecutors to pursue this and frankly, the revelation of evidence from the committee for which i worked, really calling this question and forcing that attention. if we look at it sooner, i think all of these procedural protections would have been granted well in advance of the trial before the election. be that as it may, we are not there now. it's an intersection of the campaign and it's frustrating,

but the system gives this opportunity and bends over backwards to make sure that people are treated fairly and have an opportunity to raise anything they think is relevant. >> you put your finger on the entire enchilada, though. the reluctance to examine crimes, maybe it was so disorienting to watch crimes committed before our very eyes and to watch the criminal carry out those crimes on tv, and to watch them tweet at the criminals, "we love you" that it made people stop. what i'm trying to get at is an honest conversation for our viewers for the next eight months. there will most likely be seek -- zero legal accountability for donald trump and he's banking on that. the only people who have any agents the at this point are the voters. what fani willis went through, she has been docs, her kids

have, her ex-husband, her personal information, there is no glory in actually trying to hold trump accountable. it did not work and i just don't think it's healthy anymore as a host of this program, to talk as though legal accountability is on the table. i wonder what that sounds like and what will people who have spent their life and careers as prosecutors, what will they say about his sermon like donald trump who did it, who got out of accountability, who got his get out of jail free card and he didn't even need a pocket part in to do that? what do you think about that? >> i don't know. maybe, even though the case has not been tried, the allegations

are such that they will influence people in terms of their decision. i think they should. is offering to serve, that will influence them. all that fani willis and jack smith can do, is try to hasten this, trying to delay it, and that may not result in adjudication prior to the election. i still think there is a chance that the federal january 6th case may get tried and be resolved, i don't know, it depends on the supreme court. they are saying that the system is broken or doesn't work,

generating more cynicism and feeds that beast because things take so long. it's an example of when our system doesn't work or doesn't seem to work and that's the argument he's making. the political argument as to why he should be back in there. >> i appreciate you bringing this to a real place because i think the best thing we can do is have an honest conversation, and i constantly plead about the national security officials , i plead with them, it the investigation revealed this quite clearly, to get out there, until the american people what they saw, if you see something say something begin the duty of the american people after 9/11. if you believe as biden articulated the january 6 was

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i've been thinking about the conversation you were just having about accountability and what part is voters taking the system by the horns and behaving as the jurors we all need. the other metric of accountability and forgive me, i was a soul litigator, the civil cases against him, you've seen letitia james and e jean carroll get the accountability, although not in the context of criminal acts during his presidency, but to illustrate to people who donald trump really is and always has been because in both cases, his conduct in years past is what is at issue. both of those women are and hinging him with their ability to get into his wallet and yes, e. jean carroll has been represented by capable lawyers, that she's been at this since

2019. by being ahead of the curve, we talk about the department of justice waiting too long overtime, e. jean carroll did not have the concern about the restoration to normalcy that merrick garland and his senior leadership did. >> and stormy daniels could become another woman in this story on this front, shortly. >> i think that's true and i think that, i have not been a civil litigator but i'm a civil rights activist and that's why i think people like me have been saying that there is justice for those that have means and that have certain things on their side and others don't. there is no way, if this was some guy on the south side of chicago with a regular job or no job, that he could go through two civil cases that he loses and then have four criminal cases install this long and that's why people need to vote. we need to equalize the system.

i can't imagine anyone that could stall this, so i think in many ways, the lesson is the inequity in the criminal justice system, that those with money can play the game and those that don't end up, either afraid, or they end up being in an expedited situation and i think this is a classic example of that. >> it's the case against complacency, right? no one will say the american people from trump. nobody is coming. there is no cavalry. they have to save the american democracy by voting against trump and if they don't, i don't know what happens. >> that's an ominous entry to you, tim, you get the last word. it's a real conversation about what we are actually dealing with.

we are going to have to take this evidence as the committee successfully did to the american people, turning democracy into a political issue for voters in the 2022 midterms. we know how to do this. >> we do. the facts matter, and the facts are clear, the facts have been consistently demonstrated and i hope americans pay attention and endeavor to understand them. the influence their decisions and that polling place. it may be the real accountability is, do facts matter to enough people to make a sound decision in that office. there's no shortage of accountability if everyone pays attention to and reacts to those facts. as everyone is saying, the use

of those facts in manifesting and voting is maybe the only jury that ultimately matters. >> it's taking peoples power back. i talked to so many people exasperated that this is the legal state of play but to your point, the committee did this. the committee did not have the ability to sentence them and did not have the ability to charge them, they had the ability to brad faxon for the american people and so does every single political actor and citizen over the next eight months. when we come back, how president joe biden is putting democracy front and center in the election. our series, "american autocracy, it could happen here," continues with the key member of the president's administration. pete buttigieg will be our guest after a short break.

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director of national intelligence, sue gordon, reminded us, 300 years for our democracy is not a guarantee. it's not a promise, there is no contract. it's an existential choice the nation faces that we've been examining and "american autocracy." it feels more urgent with each passing day. with putin on the march and embolden on the world stage, even the specter of adolf hitler back in the news thanks to trump's praise of him, american people meet this historic moment. in the words of president joe biden, "history is watching." joining us is u.s. secretary of transportation a member of joe biden's cabinet, pete buttigieg. i said this behind your back and now i will say it to your face, your the administration's most skilled indicator and one

of the most skilled communicators in politics and i wonder how you even bite at this massive, huge idea of democracy and the very real universal concern that the roads we drive our kids on and the roads that our school buses drive along without seatbelts on, are safe and secure. how do you do with the present wants and meet this moment and talk to people where they are, which is worried about the bills, the roads, the schools? >> one thing i appreciate about serving under president biden is this whole administration revolves around an understanding about the relationship between these high- minded and almost cosmic things we talk about like the durability of our democracy and incredibly, everyday things like filling in the holes on the road or making sure there is clean, safe water. i think that's not an accident. what are the tests for any

model government? the capacity to deliver on the basics. i don't think it's an accident that for example, the last time it was really acceptable or fashionable in some circles of american society to talk approvingly about fascism, which was the 1920s and 1930s. in excuse they would make for people like mussolini is well, he makes the trains run on time did that was not true and we can talk about that. >> they don't care about the people. >> they say that, the narrative is that these were autocratic systems and are somehow better able to deliver on the basics. the president often mentions, almost anytime in the room with him especially early on with the infrastructure bill, anytime infrastructure came up, one of the first things he would mention is president of china, and how china is seeking to create the impression that their top-down command and

control system was better able to deliver on things like infrastructure than our messy democratic system and getting this infrastructure bill passed would be the chance to prove them wrong and i guess that's my real answer, if we can deliver on the basics, better roads and bridges, better trained in transit and airports and ports of the rest of it, and a better economy and everyday life, that's part of how we validate the idea -- >> the system. >> the truth is democracy in the american system did not win the ideological battle of the 20th century against the soviet model based on theoretical arguments alone. we won because there were far more people in the soviet union who wish they were living in the united states and the other way around and that really does come back to how we deliver on those things that make everyday life better or worse depending, partly, on the condition and functionality of your federal

government. >> it started with shots and then it was formula, when that got screwed up by private industry. that's why you can get more kinds of formula, and it's crystallized, most clearly, in infrastructure. trump, when he controlled your branch of government, coveted and infrastructure bill of his own and wanted to because he knew that you could cut a fancy ribbon and stand in front of road and bridge and he failed. president biden invoked his predecessor 13 times in the state of the union address. i wonder how you make this contrast clear that this is what is on the line, that road, that bridge, that wi-fi, you didn't have those in the last four years and you do now. >> that was a good example of the contrast between bluster, saying you are going to deliver something, again and again,

with no results, which we experienced in the last administration and actually delivering which this president and administration did. this first year -- the first year, this morning, the barn looking bridge, i was at that same bridge a couple years ago as we were announcing the beginning of this program and now i was talking to the workers in the middle of actually rehabilitating the bridge. that difference between talk and action, between bluster and results, is very much on display . what we have right now, and the how, not just the what, the how. there's a fiction out there that the way to get things done is to have a straw man come in, barking orders, command and control. the chinese way. >> or the, pick your dictator. >> it rhymes with their kind of

style, right, except that didn't get anything done and the president in a democratic way, that was messy, by the way. we really worked to get republicans on board and many did. we did not do it by shoving it down anybody's throat. we got republicans to come across the aisle, not all, not even most, but many came to work with democrats, me and the president, to get this done. our messy democratic system did deliver and i think that's one of the best answers we can have for this strongman fantasy, that that is how you deliver results for people. breathe, ahhhh! what is — wow! sinex. breathe. ahhhhhh! [ serene music playing ] welcome to the wayborhood. the wayfair vibe at our place is western. my thing, darling? shine.

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me to trump employee number five, the staffer dropping a bombshell in the classified documents case brought by special counsel jack smith against donald trump. in an interview with cnn, this mar-a-lago employee painted a very specific picture of the inner circle and how it operated like a mafia family more than anything else, with loyalty prized about everything , a world where fealty to the boss took criminal exposure. we have not independently confirmed butler's identity as a trump employee and he declined a request for comment. he says he helped trump's co- defendants move boxes, containing some of our nation's most sensitive national security secrets. watch.

>> he followed me, he got behind me, we got to the airport, i ended up loading the luggage i had and he had a bunch of boxes. to make you noticed? >> they were the boxes in the indictment, the white bankers boxes. that's what i remember loading. >> did you have any idea at the time that there was potentially u.s. national security secrets in those boxes? >> no clue. >> no clue. here is how another talked about moving these documents. >> there was one time, we were talking about boxes, biden did the same thing, you know, it always got brought up, about biden and other people that did the same thing and one time, he said you know, we are all dirty, we all move boxes. >> we are all dirty, but we are not, of course, president joe biden was not charged with obstructing the government's

attempt at retrieving classified documents on the trump and employees, who allegedly tried to delete surveillance footage that showed the boxes being moved. here is butler, describing the conversation he had about the widespread panic around that footage. >> i render him saying by the way, walt is coming, oh, cool, great. okay. i wasn't told until the following day when he's like hey, by the way, it's a secret, don't tell anybody walt is coming. why? well, he needs me to find something out before he gets here. what? he needs me to, how long the camera footage is saved at mar- a-lago and i am like, that's odd, why do you need the camera footage? his response was, i think they are looking for somebody that was there. >> as the justice department closed in allies pressured that man, offering him, amid a full-

blown hysteria, about who was talking to prosecutors and what they were saying. butler now says he would testify in a trial against trump and that contrary to the ex-president and his wild conspiracies about the weaponization of the government and the deep states, this case is clear. >> do you view trump as a security risk? >> i personally would say i don't believe that he should be a presidential candidate, at this time. i think it's time to move on. >> does it concern you, i mean, he could be? >> absolutely. i think we can do better. for him to get up there all the time and say the things he says about, you know, this being a witch hunt and everything, it's just, he can't take responsibility for anything. >> an extraordinary firsthand

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the sudden bout of indifference or amnesia about the clear and present danger, trumps embrace of dictators poses all of us is something history reminds us that we do at our own peril. it's something we've been exploring and digging into in our series, "american autocracy: it could happen here". this threat, this specific threat of history repeating itself has been hauntingly explained by an american hero named guy stern. he escaped germany at the age of 15 to only return as a member of the legendary richie boys, a secret american

intelligence unit, many of whom , or german born jewish men who use their knowledge of the german language and german culture to interrogate comic and capture soldiers. they are responsible for most of the combat intelligence united states got from the front lines. stern was awarded the bronze star, his entire family perished . he passed away in december at the age of 101, but never stopped warning us about forgetting his lessons about the danger of forgetting the lessons we learn from history. this is what he told our friend, film maker, ken burns. >> we've seen human behavior and we have no guarantee that it won't recur. if we can make that clear and graphic and understandable,

that is something not to imitate, but is a warning of what can happen to human beings , then perhaps we have one shield against its recurrence. >> one shield. joining us now, and the award- winning filmmaker, documentarian, we called you a legend already and we will do it to your face, ken burns, we are so glad you are here. >> i'm so glad to be with you. welcome back. >> this, maybe, is all we should be doing, maybe all we should be doing is using our space to remind people what history teaches us. >> in a place where there is so much disinformation and misinformation, making the other of somebody, we are desperately in need of the clear eyed view of guy stern. he lived to be 101 because he

had escaped, the one selected from his family to go to united states to try to get the others out and could not point he joined the army and went and he lost everybody and has borne witness to that. if you backup, you are asking andrew, 10 years ago could you have thought of this? in 1932, say you wanted to be in the most civilized, cosmopolitan place on the planet , where everything was new and in literature, architecture, music, cinema, in ideas, there would be no better place in 1932 then berlin. january, not so much. we realized how we fall. i am now working on a film, this continues to resonate with us and we are talking about it but we've been working on a film about the american

revolution, where we came from, where we are born, and for me, it's the reverse engineering that can take place. a few lines, past the famous lines in the declaration and the second sentence, jefferson said, all it variance has shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are sufferable. what he is saying to all of us is that heretofore, all human beings have been objects. they've been under authoritarian rule. we are suggesting there could be a new version of this, that you could be a thing called a citizen instead of a subject, not a superstitious peasant, filled with venomous information and disinformation, you could be something else. that's the promise of the united states. it did not fulfill it at any point for everyone, but we were at the very beginning, wrestling with the noblest aspirations of humankind and it

had nothing to do with authoritarianism and now we find ourselves in this improbable, please wake me from this nightmare dream, that these things are possible, here. it can happen here and we do have the momentum of most of human existence to show that it could. we have been an outlier and and inspire her of others to resist this tide and we have held high in washington resigning his military commission and not leaving after two terms of this idea that the highest office in the land is a citizen. there are people and tendencies and human nature does not change, history does not repeat itself. we find people relentlessly drawn to power moves, this bullying, this dissonance, the vulgarity that authoritarianism is. >> this has been prime time

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good evening and welcome to "politics nation." we have live pictures from the white house