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i am reverend al sharpton

in new york, continuing or breaking news coverage out of trenton, new jersey this afternoon. trenton police have confirmed they are dealing with a barricaded and potentially armed individual at this hour. a little earlier, s.w.a.t. team members were seen rescuing people from this residence on phillips avenue in trenton. the people you see exiting were believed to have been held hostage by the alleged suspect. authorities have identified the shooting suspect as 26-year-old andre gordon. he has ties to the trenton area. he is alleged to have killed three people this morning, in neighboring falls township, pennsylvania. authorities say it was his stepmother, his 13-year-old sister, and the mother of gordon's two children. the bucks county district attorney's office held a press

conference earlier regarding this morning's shootings. let's take a listen. >> forcibly broke into the residence, after which he shot and killed his 52-year-old stepmother, karen gordon, and his 13-year-old sister, kara gordon, who lived at the residence. there were three other individuals at the residence, including a minor inside the home who were able to hide and avoid being shot by gordon. following the shootings, at approximately 9:01 a.m., gordon drove to the unit block of edgewood lane, levittown, where he forcibly broke into a residence, after which he shot and killed 25-year-old taylor daniel, with whom he has two children. >> let's bring in nbc news correspondent george solis, who is live in trenton, new jersey. george, tell us what is happening right now on the ground?

>> reporter: yeah, it is still a very fluid situation on the ground hours later after this barricade situation started. what you have right now is a very large number of authority figures, police, from trenton, from state police, the atf, fbi sort of on standby right now. we have seen drones in the air sort of canvassing where this barricade situation is taking place. one thing we haven't heard that is worth noting, we haven't heard any flash bangs, any sounds of shots being fired. one thing we heard earlier this afternoon from trenton police is that everyone within that duplex, this dwelling, was released. so, there are no more hostages inside this duplex. the neighboring area also evacuated. we believe at this hour that authorities are just dealing with this suspect inside of this home right now, possibly armed. they are obviously very methodically thinking about

what the next steps are before entering that home. we did see some images earlier where s.w.a.t. officers were on the roof escorting these people away from this home. that is the equation here, as it stands at this hour. we also have a number of people who are to my right and to my left, who have been standing out here watching this all unfold. authorities keeping them all a safe distance away from the scene but not telling people to go inside their homes and seek shelter, which is notable, because earlier this morning in falls township was the exact opposite. they were telling people to shelter in place while this investigation was going on. one thing bucks county officials told us a little bit earlier today, as well, is that this appeared to have started in trenton, this suspect, this 26-year-old, carjacking a suspect here -- that person has not been identified -- before crossing over into falls township, pennsylvania before carrying out these murders. we know that he carjacked someone in bucks county. that person was not injured at a dollar general and the car ended up somewhere in this neighborhood before this barricaded situation has taken place. again, at last check, the

suspect presumably still inside of this home and authorities are supposedly waiting to see if they can bring this to a peaceful resolution. back to you. >> now, take us through the events this morning in pennsylvania. let's be clear about that. >> reporter: yeah, so, again, we now know this started with a carjacking here earlier this morning, somewhere around 8:52, almost 9:00, police responding in falls township to a home that was broken into where those two individuals were shot. then, 10 minutes later, another incident at another home where another individual was shot and a few minutes after that is where this carjacking was reported at this dollar general. somewhere between the 11:00 and noon hour is where this barricade situation has been ongoing. so, this all happened relatively soon. to put this into perspective, the county line between bucks county and new jersey, trenton, is about 20 minutes or so. obvious, with a car, you can cover ground fairly quickly,

al. >> let's bring in the mayor of trenton, new jersey, reed gusciora. what can you share with our viewers right now, mr. mayor? >> hey, rev. i am just in the area of police, the county sheriff's department. they are all working in concert to try to get a peaceful resolution. we want to prevent any further loss of life, including the suspects. so, they were able to remove any neighbors from the area, and they are all working together right now. >> now, they have taken out some of, what we are told, hostages. what is happening in the area, in terms of making sure people are not in harm's way, since we are told they do not know if the suspect is alive or not and they do not know, if alive, if he is armed?

>> well, we got a debriefing from others who were in the house, so that is the intelligence about what is going on in the house. but, the people who were in there were able to peacefully get out with the police assistance. we have also evacuated neighbors. so, there is a large police presence on that block. >> so, there is no way of knowing, from any of the hostages, because we know he was armed earlier, but we don't know whether he has ammunition, what was using, we don't know the status at all of the suspect in the house at this point, is what you are telling me? >> yes. they got a debriefing from the others in the house -- i am not privy to that -- but, it is an active investigation. so, i am not able to comment to that. >> well, what can you tell us

as to the scale of the police presence and what is going on there? i see all kinds of people around there, they appear to be law enforcement. what can you tell us about the scale, in terms of vans, trucks, drones? what kind of scale are we at, in terms of trying to bring this to some closure, to end this peacefully? >> it is massive, in that we were able to have police evacuated neighbors safely, to keep them out of harm's way. we have hostage negotiations ongoing to try to get some kind of response from the suspect. we have the assistance of state police and other area law enforcement agencies. they are all working together to try to get a resolution without any further loss of life. >> all right, thank you for stepping on the phone, mayor of

trenton, new jersey, reed gusciora. let's bring in jim kavanaugh, he is a former atf special agent in charge, and nbc news terror analyst. jim, talk to us about what police are likely doing right now, how do you negotiate with someone who has allegedly killed three people and knows they are going to have to face the consequences for that? how do you talk to someone like that? >> well, you treat them with respect, reverend al. you try to make the human connection with them, build trust, you know, we call it attunement. try to calm him down, so he can make a reasoned decision to save his life, and not kill himself, or charge out and be shot by the police. it just takes some listening skills.

it takes some classic negotiation techniques. but, in any essence, it is humanity, and this guy is all alone. he basically wiped out his family today. she is barricaded, he knows he is wanted for murder, he doesn't have anybody. so, the negotiator has to be that somebody that can be his lifeline for a future life. many people, even in such dire circumstances, still get talked out. so, you never give up. i think they are trying to do that, but it is going to require some attempt on his end, to communicate. >> now, is it possible that he is still alive? and how will they determine whether or not he is still alive? because as i am hearing from the mayor, he has not been responsive, of late, in the last few hours. >> well, they are -- they are

going to have listening devices and cameras that they will insert in the space that he is in, whether it is a bedroom, apartment, whatever. if they have to drill through a wall, go through the hole, throw something in the window, they will look through the window with scopes. they will see if he is in there, and if he is moving around. they will be able to determine that. if he is moving around, they will know that she is alive. if he is prone, or in a chair, or bed, or something, they are going to have to be cautious because he could still be alive, could be taking drugs, or even playing a decoy to suck you in. but then, they could use a robot to go in, or other cameras. so, they have ways of dealing with that. >> all right, thank you, jim kavanaugh. we will continue to monitor the situation out of trenton, new jersey and bring you updates throughout the hour, as we learn more. coming up on "politics nation," the rematch is on between

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we are following breaking news out of trenton, new jersey where police are at the scene where we know three people have been killed earlier today, and we see a standoff with the gunman, barricaded in his home after allegedly killing, as i said, three of his family members. a s.w.a.t. team is on the scene and nearby homes have been evacuated. authorities believe there are no more hostages in the home.

we will bring you up dates as we learn them. let's turn to politics in the critical battleground state of georgia. i am joined by congresswoman nikema williams, chairman of the democratic party. thank you for joining us, congresswoman. >> thank you, reverened al. let me tell you, thank frankly, we are shunning a spotlight on george all weekend long. your colleague, senator raphael warnock, will be joining us on the show tomorrow. but, this week, president biden and former president trump each clinched their party's nomination for a presidential rematch. what are you hearing from your constituents? are they fired up for their election, and more importantly, are they ready to fight for the right to vote? because we know suppression efforts will, once again, be an issue in georgia this year. >> first, reverened al, i am

glad we are having this conversation because some people, the same naysayers from 2020 would like you to believe that georgia is not relevant in the 2024 election but we all know better. that is why we have the president and the former failed president in georgia both last weekend. but, what we have seen and what i am hearing on the ground coming off the state of the union, that is exactly what my constituents, people across the state needed to get that energy going, to get ready to move into the general election. it is only fitting that on tuesday night, when the votes came in from georgia, that georgia is the state that gave president biden denomination. he clinched the nomination on georgia on tuesday night. we know we still have more work to do, more conversations to be held, but there is a lot of time between now and november and that is what happens in battleground state. we are not red, we are not blue, we are periwinkle, so we have to do the work. that comes with having those

conversations with voters on the ground that are important to them. that is what we are doing every day, reverened al. >> a georgia judge, just yesterday, rejected trump's bid to get fulton county d.a., fani willis thrown off of his election interference case, a move that would have made it even more -- unlikely he would face trial before election day. willis did have to accept the resignation of her top special prosecutor. with whom, he had a special relationship. trump routinely attacks prosecutors who dared to bring cases against him, but many of us can't help but notice the extremely personal nature of the efforts to undermine d.a. willis as an accomplished black woman. what are your thoughts on yesterday's ruling, and where this case goes from here? >> i mean, i think it goes back to what d.a. willis said when he was on the stand. he was treated as if he was the

one who was on trial, and he was not on trial. we are talking about someone who tried to overturn the valid election, the 2020 presidential election. but yet, he is the one being scrutinized. all of the things donald trump has done, and he is the one that is meant out to have done something wrong. so, we are moving forward in this, he has been clear from the beginning. no one is above the law when it comes to what he is doing as d.a. in fulton county, and he will be held accountable. so, we are going to keep mold -- moving forward with this. this is his m.o., to delay, delay, delay and see if he can skirt the law but it is not going to happen this time, not in fulton county, georgia, not on d.a. fani willis'' watch. >> on thursday, vice president kamala harris made her start or stop at the planned parenthood center in st. paul, minnesota, the first time ever a sitting vice president visited an abortion clinic. the appearance is meant to

highlight the biden administration's supportive reproductive rights after the overturning of roe v wade. you have been an outspoken advocate on this issue. talk about what is at stake in 2024 in georgia, and throughout the country, for that matter? >> again, i think coming off of that state of the union address, reverened al, we heard president biden say that women will use their power at the ballot box. when we think about reproductive freedom in this country, i would always hear that, no, it is not going to go so far as to ban ivf, that is going too far, but that is exactly what has happened. we saw in alabama, women were denied access to ivf when they were trying to grow their families. there are also certain forms of birth control that work the same way. so, there are potentials on the table where birth control could be banned in certain instances in this country. so, we need to do what the president asks us to do, send

us a pro-choice majority in the senate and congress so that we can codify roe v wade, get protections across the board, because what we are doing with a donald trump presidency is a nationwide abortion ban and nobody wants to live under that reign. women are going to show up, and force at the ballot box. our rights are on the line, reproductive freedoms are on the line, and people are paying attention, reverened al. >> now, i am out of time, but i have to bring this up before i let you go, i have to ask about the humanitarian crisis in haiti. we are hearing reports the coast guard is sending back migrants fleeing the political violence there, and in florida governor desantis is deploying national guard troops to turn away would be asylum-seekers. now, in my capacity as head of national action network, i have called for the biden administration to hold an emergency meeting with myself and national urban league president to discuss the situation. i still have vivid memories of

meeting with haitian asylum- seekers in 2021 after border agent patrols were photographed chasing them on horseback. how do we make sure haitian people are given the help that they need to, instead of being treated as pawns in our domestic debate over immigration? >> reverened al, i think we have the first haitian-american in congress right now, congresswoman mccormick. he still has family in haiti, this is a heartbreaking situation, and when we are prioritizing humanitarian aid for all of these other countries, we need to make sure that haiti is included in this conversation. that is the next step. when we passed a funding bill for foreign aid, we must make sure that haiti is included in this conversation and getting the aid that they need. >> all right, thank you congresswoman nikema williams. as always, we are happy when we have you with us.

as mentioned, former president trump is now the presumptive republican nominee, but his dominance of the grand old party may not be as complete as he would like you to believe. yesterday, trump's former vice president, mike pence, said that he would not endorse his former boss. trump's must also find a way to win back hundreds of thousands of gop primary voters who cast their ballots for someone else. my next guest is working to make sure that just doesn't happen. this is our political director of republican voters against trump. mr. rimmer, let me start with pence's rejection of trump. it felt about eight years too late for me, but what was your take on it? >> i would say better late than never. donald trump has made it clear

that he doesn't want the support of more establishment type republicans like former vice president mike pence and governor nikki haley. those republicans, the traditional republicans are going to be the ones who make the biggest difference this cycle. i think it is a tactical error from him to reject that kind of republican. >> now, let's turn from pence to nikki haley, the former south carolina governor, beat trump in vermont and the district of columbia, and captured as much as 40% -- one minute, i have to break here and go to our nbc correspondent, george solis, who is live in trenton, new jersey. george, tell us what is happening right now on the ground? moments ago, i got a call from trenton police, telling me that the suspect, andre gordon, was apprehended. he was taken into custody, surrendered peacefully without incident not far from this

police presence. he apparently slipped through this police barricade and was apprehended in trenton. it seems like the mayor here is also confirming that with other media outlets, as well. trenton police letting me know at the moment that the suspect was taken into custody without incident. of course, we are going to get more details on how you actually manage to get away from the number of police you see behind me here. not just trenton pd, state police, atf, fbi agents that have been here on the ground. again, now taken into custody after carrying out these three alleged murders in bucks county, pennsylvania. you can hear some sirens as police will begin to mobilize to that scene where he was taken into custody. i was told by officials it wasn't too far from the scene, but the exact location, we are still working to iron out. the big question is how he managed to slip by this large police presence here, taken into custody here a little bit after the 5:00 hour is what i'm being told right now. >> so, they don't know where he was apprehended, but we do know he got out of where we thought

he was located, is that right? >> reporter: that is correct. again, this barricade situation that has been unfolding at this home on phillips avenue, has been unfolding since about the noon hour, at some point, presumably, he slipped out of that home, out of that barricade, out of this perimeter and has been here. that is how they have apprehended him. how they managed to slip by, we don't exactly know at that time. we were told it was without incident and he surrendered peacefully. >> let's bring in jim kavanaugh, a former atf special agent in charge and a nbc news terrorism analyst. jim, talk to us about what police likely are doing at this point, and what led up to what we have just been told by george? >> well, now, they are going to go into an interrogation of the killer, reverened al, because as you know, there was a murder spree today. so, that apprehension of him is over, and they will be searching the residence there,

of course trying to secure the firearm if it is still in that house where they believe he had been. he apparently slipped the cord on, something in the last couple of hours i had commented on with alex witt, that this often happens in barricade situations. so, sometimes, they do it before the perimeter gets firmly set. when the first responding officers come, the guy can slip out the back door, the basement door, or even a tunnel or some other secret way, or maybe just drop out a window, a back garden, or something. it will be interesting to see what he did there. it might have been early on before s.w.a.t. was able to tightly encircle that perimeter with drones above and operators all around. but, the good news -- the bad news, he slipped a cord on -- the good news, he is apprehended, and we don't know of any more injuries or murders. he might have been caught without the firearm. george had reported it was

nearby. so, hopefully, his murder spree ended earlier today, and now trenton and philadelphia and falls township can breathe a sigh of relief. >> certainly, our prayers are with those families of the deceased. thank you, george solis and jim kavanaugh. let's go back to politics. returning from pence to nikki haley, the former south carolina governor beat trump in vermont, district of columbia, and captured as much as 40% of the vote elsewhere. do you believe these voters are up for grabs in the fall? and what does president biden need to do to get them to pull the lever for him in november? >> absolutely. a number that really sticks out to me, is if you look at what happened in the early primary states, haley did get to, as

you alluded to, around 30%. if you look at the percentage of republicans who don't believe the election was stolen and don't want to go along with donald trump's election lies, it is about 30%. i would say probably about half of those haley supporters are already going to vote for biden. nationally, some of those haley supporters are going to come home to the republican party, but within that segment of haley supporters, i think they are very reachable, and it is less about what joe biden can do, and more about what donald trump is going to do. because we have seen, back in 2018, swing voters rejected donald trump's party, they rejected trump himself, and they rejected his candidates in a lot of winnable races for republicans in 2022, with candidates like doug mastriano and kerry lake. as these voters start to internalize the biden-trump rematch, trump as a general election candidate, talking about being a tater on day one or terminating the constitution, swing voters are repulsed by that and they will reject that, come november. >> now, your organization, mr. ramer, is planning a $50

million ad campaign targeting moderate republican voters in swing states. the commercial voters feature former trump supporters talking about why he lost their vote. let's take a look. >> trump talking about retribution -- >> and going after people -- >> he has disrespected our military -- >> the military people he has disgraced -- >> 91 -- >> 91 felonies -- >> federal indictments -- >> he mishandled classified documents -- >> his dire -- desire to do away with nato. >> he said he will be a dictator on day one. >> if he is going to be a dictator on day one, he will be a dictator, period. >> that stuff scares me. >> absolutely scares me. >> a second trump term would be far worse. >> it is dangerous.

>> i cannot support trump again. >> i will never vote for him again. >> he will never get my vote, ever. >> now, these are former supporters of trump. what makes these testimonials so effective, in your view? >> yeah, absolutely. we had a whole host of research done by our organization in 2020, that yes, we could sit here and do flashy political ads all day long and we will continue to do so, but what persuades people the most are hearing from like-minded individuals, like themselves. this testimonial campaign, we started on tuesday with over 100, i think that number is now north of 120. people continue to send in testimonials. voting is very tribal and they are trying to book their tribe. i think what our testimonials allow for, rather than just a flashy political ad, is seeing someone like them saying, i might be a reagan type republican, i may have even voted for trump in 2016 and 2020, but i can't support

trump. messaging is always important, and advertising campaigns. but what is even more important is the messenger. that is the strategy we really landed on. i will really say, that our testimonials are not just backwards looking. yes, people are repulsed by january 6th, election to nihilism, trump's cabinet during that administration. but again, it is being scared of this idea of retribution that may be works with trump space but not with swing voters. it is the idea of being a dictator on day one. we saw that and how that played earlier. it is the idea of terminating the constitution, that traditional, reaganesque republicans cannot stand for. that is why they will not be voting for trump in 2024 point >> now, i have to ask you about the trump takeover of the republican national committee. this week, the rnc laid off about a third of its staff, eight months before the election, including experts in fundraising and data. trump loyalists are taking over key positions. his daughter-in-law, laura trump, is now the co-chair. do these moves make you concerned about the long-term

health of america's great two political party's? >> absolutely. what has been very clear -- and it started back in 2015 and 2016 -- is that donald trump certainly activated something within the base. even post midterms, in a post january 6th world, this is donald trump's political party. laura trump, with the last name trump, is essentially leading the rnc. and they will use the money that rnc raises for trump's legal troubles. again, donald trump is a proven loser and this isn't going to help republicans. this is the choice republicans have made both at the elite level and also with the base. i think it is a losing strategy and they are going to find out, come november. and it is not just the rnc, too. if you look at state party's in swing states like arizona, michigan, they are disasters. this is what happens when donald trump takes over a political party. >> thank you, mr. ramer, for being with us tonight.

still ahead, former president trump is in ohio tonight, holding a rally in support of republican senate candidate, bernie marino. we had our political panel standing by and we are following breaking news out of trenton, new jersey. police say a gunman accused of killing three of his family members earlier today has been taken into custody peacefully. a s.w.a.t. team had been assembled outside the suspects home throughout the afternoon, but according to police, he was apprehended in another location. we will bring you updates as we get them. stay tuned. stay tuned. ys discreet. look at how it absorbs all the liquid. oh my gosh! and locking it right on in. look at that! totally absorbed. i got to get some always discreet. she runs and plays like a puppy again. his #2s are perfect! he's a brand new dog, all in less than a year.

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welcome back to "politicsnation" where we are following all the latest in the 2024 election. right now, donald trump was speaking in dayton, ohio, to campaign for u.s. senate

candidate bernie marino. this is ahead of tuesday's primary. marino is running for the chance to take on democratic senator sharad brown. brown is the incumbent sender there and is the democrat. now, let's bring in tonight's political panel to talk about all of this. we have republican, brendan buck, former press secretary john bennett, and vice president nominee paul ryan, and michael holloway, former staffer to house minority leader, hakeem jeffries, and also worked for senator durbin. democrats are criticizing marino as an ultra mag i candidate, like the north carolina gubernatorial candidate in mark robinson or carrie lake, who is running for senate in

arizona. those types of candidates didn't do very well in the midterms. do you think things will be different this year with trump at the top of the ticket? >> it might be, but it is a risky proposition. last cycle in the senate, donald trump got involved and tip the scales for a number of candidates who ended up losing. he had a very poor track record of picking winners. this time, republicans have been trying to go about things a little bit differently, working closely with him, trying to guide him more toward electable candidates. in ohio, however, donald trump seems to get ahead and the national republicans are not endorsing in this race, but donald trump has chosen moreno. it is one of those situations where donald trump's ascension i think has been interpreted by a lot of republicans to where you don't need to worry about electability, that as long as somebody excites you, makes you feel good, anything goes. i don't think that is true.

and this is a high risk position because the senate is up for grabs, ohio is one of those states where republicans really need to bank that see takeback, and if we nominate somebody who can't win a general election, that may be a risk and you could have democrats controlling the senate again. >> michael, trump clinched the republican nomination this week. poll watchers have noticed his margins of victory in many states haven't been as wide as the polls were projecting. some democrats have taken that as an encouraging sign. but, an analysis in politico today argues trends in primary polling don't necessarily carry over to polling in the general election. what is your take on this? for many years, polls seemed to estimate -- underestimate trump's support. could they be overestimating his appeal now? >> i think donald trump is in real trouble as it relates to

the moderate republican voter. if you look at many of the states that nikki haley lost, he performed significantly well in many of those places, and if it -- you look to the general, the question is, what is donald trump's plan to seize this group of people who may have supported him before, but have issues as it relates to this time around. i had a recent conversation this week with a republican voter who voted for donald trump in '16 and '20 and said to me that he doesn't think he can do so again because he really is concerned about this dictatorship that he has been discussing and everything else that he has said. so, i think that is a real concern for donald trump as we head into november. >> on that topic, allies of former south carolina governor nikki haley say that trump has made no attempt -- none -- to reach out to either haley or her inner circle since he dropped out of the race two weeks ago. the silent treatment is probably not a huge surprise,

given the tone of the campaign. but, do you think it is a tactical mistake on trump's part? >> it may be, but we certainly shouldn't be surprised by that. look, donald trump is not a gracious person, we know that. i don't frankly know that he is capable of trying to appeal to those more traditional republican voters that nikki haley was attracting. i don't think that nikki haley is very interested in having that conversation, so i don't know how fruitful it would be. donald trump's strategy since 2015 has been to turn out base republicans and that is it. he has never made an attempt to play to independents and moderates, and i don't think we should expect him to start now. his plan to win over those voters will simply be to make joe biden so unacceptable to him that those people decide not to vote for him. maybe that will work, it has worked for him in at least one election past. it is just not part of donald trump's dna to play to independence. >> now, president biden is not

seeing a bump in polling, following his generally well received state of the union address last week. biden's approval rating before his speech was 40% and dropped this week to 39%. a gail -- a gap well within the margin of error of 2 to 8 percentage points. is it concerning that biden's speech -- which got positive views -- is not translating into polls? is that concerning? >> it is really interesting, because he crushed it in so many ways and answered all the questions and all the concerns from people who may have questions about his cognitive ability, maybe his mental capacity, maybe his energy. he answered all of those. he crushed it completely, and he was called upon multiple times that night and showed that he has the capacity to respond in kind to republicans. it is interesting that that hasn't translated, polling wise.

i am not necessarily concerned because i think it is so early, in terms of between now and the election, and i think the president has a real record to run on. so, i think he has so the energy on the state of the union and now he just needs to really focus on his record of historically low on improvement, historically high black business creation. all of these real things he has delivered, he needs to tell those stories across the country. >> brendan buck, michael holloway, thank you, both, for being with us. now to the future of social media platform, tiktok. after the house passed a bipartisan bill this week demanding the platforms -- china-based parent company either sell or be banned in the u.s., credits called tiktok a national security threat, but the shifting social media landscape is a serious concern for communities of color, who rely heavily on the internet

for news and politics. joining me now is charles bloke, new york times columnist, and nbc news contributor. charles, good to have you on again, as always. let's start with some numbers. pew research recently found black americans are more likely to get their news from social media than white americans, with about a quarter of black adults going to tiktok and instagram. more than one third going to facebook, and 4 out of 10 going to youtube. how should those numbers shape how we think about this debate around tiktok, about tiktok? >> well, reverened al, it is quite complicated. it is both a blessing and a curse for the numbers you laid out, it indicates that this is a trend overall in society, particularly among young people, where they don't get their news from traditional

sources, whether they be print publications or television news. they go to tiktok. i see this in my own family, my own adult children, they never turn on the television. all of their news and information, current event information comes from the internet. that can be a positive, because most people do have some sort of device in their pocket that can allow them to access this, so you have more people accessing more information. you have more people able to organize using these platforms. the negative, though, is also there. particularly in political environments, what we found out in 2016 was that the russians were specifically targeting black people because they were so heavily reliant on getting information from the internet. that was manifesting in them to

get more upset, so that maybe they would not in vote in ways that ways abscess that people were expecting them to vote. so, you have to be really careful and mindful of all of that in how people are getting that news and using these platforms when we talk about whether we are going to ban them or not. >> president biden says he will sign the tiktok legislation if it passes the senate, forcing the company to sell if it wants to continue to operate in the u.s. donald trump's former treasury secretary, steve mnuchin, is reportedly putting together a group of interested investors, which makes me think of elon musk's takeover of twitter, which has resulted in an explosion of hate speech on the platform, now known as ex. are you concerned another major social media platform could be taken over by owners with a political agenda? >> you know, my number one

concern there is the cesspool of people going in and out of political administrations and using that platform to gain advantage when they exit in the private, corporate world. so, it just makes the whole political environment, ecosystem that much more dirty. you understand that people have motivations for being in office that are not at all just about serving people, but about gaining up her hands and advantages when they come out of offices. it is the reason we have so many millionaires who are in congress right now, even though they don't make millionaire salaries. that is a problem for all of us. that is a problem that is playing itself out, if this happens with tiktok. >> now, meta, the company that owns facebook and instagram has come under regulatory scrutiny as a possible platform

for election interference, as well as hate speech and harassment. the result of all that attention has been for the company to try to avoid political content altogether, which doesn't seem like a good thing in a democracy. what could they be doing differently right now, charles? >> well, they can avoid it to some degree, but you can't avoid when people are posting individual political thoughts on their individual plate pages. we also now know that foreign actors or hostile actors can pretend to be individual people posting on individual pages and comment sections. they can't really get out of that particular kind of business. i think what has to happen here is that congress has to take some sort of action. but, the problem with that, as is the problem with everything, congress doesn't seem to know what they are doing. we have listened to the questioning of these platform

leaders in congress. the embarrassment was the congress people, because they didn't understand how the internet works. so, it was hard to see how they would be able to craft effective legislation to deal with this. >> before i let you go, this week, the artificial intelligence app, mid journey, says it will block images of trump and biden during the election. some trump supporters have been circulating deep fake images of him posing with smiling groups of black people. many experts worry the pictures are intentionally misleading at a time when trump is trying -- somewhat successfully -- to make inroads with black voters. how worried should we be about this type of technology, and what should be done about it? >> the problem is not necessarily that we are going to start to believe the deep fakes, but that we are going to

start to question all imagery. and that becomes a real problem, because if you believe that you cannot trust any image, that does real damage to to conveyance of real information, the images that convey real information. that erosion of overall trust that ai is ushering in, is the larger problem here. so, i feel like that will have ripple effects not just in this election, but in all future elections. >> all right, charles blow, thank you as always for being with us. up next, my final thoughts. stay with us. ith us.

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this week, we lost two giants in the civil rights alina. dori and ladner, who was a long time fighter for freedom and

equality in her home state of mississippi. he volunteered with the nonviolent coordinating committee and helped registered voters during the mississippi freedom summer. according to her sister, he attended every major protest from 1963 to 1968, including the march on washington and the march from selma to montgomery. we also lost david mcnair, a political strategist who helped shape the gay rights movement. david helped convince president bill clinton to institute the "don't ask, don't tell" policy in the military and he worked on the 1977 re-election campaign of tom bradley, the first black mayor of los angeles, california. civil rights will be one of the major topics, along with voting rights, on tomorrow's

"politicsnation" where we will have georgia senator raphael warnock. it will be joining us to discuss georgia and capitol hill ahead of the election 2024. and president biden delivers remarks at a st. patrick's day celebration in the white house. we will have all of that for you live, that is tomorrow, right here on "politicsnation". that does it for me. thanks for watching. right now, it is saturday's show with jonathan capehart. an. i'm jonathan cape heart in washington, d.c. and we begin with the latest on that breaking news out of trenton, new jersey. police have now apprehended the shooting suspect. 26-year-old andre gordon after hours of an intense standoff. this morning, gordon allegedly killed three of his family members and neighboring falls township, pennsylvania. after the shootings, police said gordon then carjacked a