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this morning, trenton police have confirmed they are dealing with a barricaded and potentially armed individual at this hour. a little earlier, s.w.a.t. team members seen rescuing people from this residence on philip avenue in trenton. those exiting were believed to have been held hostage by the alleged suspect. they identified the shooting suspect as 26-year-old andre gordon. he has ties to the trenton area. he is alleged to have killed three people this morning in neighboring falls township, pennsylvania. authorities say it was his stepmother, 13-year-old sister, and the mother of gordon's two children. the bucks county district attorney's office held a press conference earlier regarding this morning's shootings. let's listen. >> forcibly broke into the residence after which he shot and killed his 52-year-old stepmother, karen gordon, and his 13-year-old sister, kara gordon, who lived at the residence. there were three other

individuals at the residence, including a minor inside the home, who were able to hide and avoid being shot by gordon. following the shootings, at approximately 9:01 a.m., gordon drove to the unit block of edward lane, levittown, where he forcibly broke into a residence, after which he shot and killed 25-year-old taylor daniel, with whom he has two children. >> let's bring in nbc news correspondent, george solis, who is live in trenton, the capital city of new jersey. tell us what is happening right now on the ground? >> reporter: jonathan, what you have is a really tense situation. you have rumblings that s.w.a.t. officers are entering this home. we see behind me is people in this community very invested in this story, seeing how all of this unfolded. you can see some of this behind me, and in my last conversation with trenton police officials,

they tell me they do not believe any hostages are left inside at home, they believe it is just the suspect inside of this dwelling. still unclear if this is a single-family home or a duplex of sorts. earlier, we saw imagery of s.w.a.t. officers on the roof escorting people out of the home. right now, they are telling us no one left inside this dwelling except for the suspect. we presume he is alive, and we hope we can bring this to a peaceful resolution. one thing to note, as you see all of this people behind me, police not telling people to shelter in place, which might indicate that authorities might know more than they are telling the public as far as the safety component right now. we are heeding any advice from authorities, should they tell us to move. earlier, there was a drone flying over the street keeping tabs on the situation, if you will. we have seen it come down, since. there might be another drone now off in the distance that might be harder to make out. again, authorities telling us now in a recent update that they believe this started in trenton this morning, the suspect apparently carjacking one here before crossing into the pennsylvania side into

falls township, which is bucks county before he carried out this heinous crime, killing those individuals. so, we are back here in trenton during this barricade situation where again it is now going on for several hours now. again, all we are hearing are rumblings that s.w.a.t. officers are going in. again, officials telling me that they are hoping to bring this to a peaceful resolution and many waiting to see how this plays out here in the next presumably minutes, hours, but many hoping it is a lot sooner than that, of course, jonathan. >> george, let me get you to elaborate a little bit more on the events as the took place in fall township, pennsylvania this morning. >> reporter: certainly. what we have been told, based on some of the preliminary information from police as well as some of that information during the press conference, this all happened relatively soon. this carjacking happening first thing in the morning in trenton, he crosses over. within about 30 minutes, we see the first entry into that home where he kills those family members, goes to that second

family dwelling where he kills the other woman, and then he goes over to a dollar general where he carjacks another individual, a honda cr-v vehicle, an suv. he doesn't injure that person, we are told, but dumps the car back in this neighborhood in trenton where again, she is in this home. what the connection of the home is, we are not clear. authorities are saying he was homeless but did have ties to this area. again, a lot of loose threads that authorities are basically trying to piece together at this hour. all of this culminating here to this very active scene behind me, jonathan. >> nbc news' george solis in trenton, new jersey. thank you very much. let's bring in gross others, a former fbi agent, and s.w.a.t. team member. as a former s.w.a.t. team member, tell us about what you would be worried about right now, your biggest concerns in this situation when it comes to this suspect?

>> thank you, jonathan. as you can see, the s.w.a.t. team has rolled their bearcat -- the armored vehicle -- to the front of the residence. you can see s.w.a.t. team members on the ground and on the roof of that location. the biggest concern i would have is the possibility that he is still armored. i am assuming based on the movements that you are seeing, that he is not armed. because certainly if he did have a rifle -- which was alleged earlier today, that round travels at 32 feet per second and can easily go through a window, door, or wall. so, it would appear that they have tried to get some images from the drone that was flying earlier. that is very, very useful and is a great asset to have. that gives them some situational intelligence with regards to whether it is safe or not to breach that location, to bring about. the most important thing now, jonathan, is time. if he is in there alone -- and i am assuming everyone is safely evacuated -- time is on your side, there is no need to rush or deploy gas, if they can actually talk him out of that location. >> mr. southard is a llama i am

curious, why haven't the police cleared the area? seems like another member of the public art relatively close to the center of the action. >> again, i am assuming that this is what appears to be a safe distance for them, safe distance typically is about 300 feet. so, they must have enough information and intelligence to suggest that the area is clear enough for people to render there safely, otherwise they would move people back further. as to your question, they would certainly ask people to shelter in place if they thought there was a danger of him actually merging or doing something from inside the house that might hurt people who are observing this activity. >> should we consider -- since i think george has reported multiple times we haven't heard any flash bangs, haven't heard any commotion that would come from a s.w.a.t. team taking action at that location -- should we take from that, that perhaps the s.w.a.t. team members are talking to andre gordon, that they are

negotiating with andre gordon? >> that is a great question, jonathan. i think you are exactly right. the fact that there has been no activity that would support an active breach or assault of the situation, means that they are probably negotiating with him. most teams would do that, they would bring out the crisis negotiation team, try to get him on the phone. i understand earlier, they were using a megaphone to communicate him, which isn't ideal, but it at least starts a dialogue. what is interesting is everybody hurt or killed was related to him, so i am assuming there was some history, be it domestic or some kind of mental illness, or even criminal, that they have researched and they know as much as they can about him to have a conversation. or, to certainly urge him to exit peacefully. >> all right, errol southers, please stay with us. we are now going to bring in jim kavanaugh, a former atf special agent in charge, and a nbc news terrorism analyst. jim, talk to us about what police are likely doing right now.

how do you negotiate with someone who has allegedly killed three people and knows they are going to have to face the consequences for having done that? >> what you have to do, jonathan, is drop the emotional level. nobody can make a reasonable decision if they have emotions that are running very high. of course, andre is in a murder spree this morning, killed three people, assaulted more. probably in a very manic state. if you are going to be able to say civilly negotiate with him, you will have to get him down, get that emotion down so you can try to reason with him, maybe to save his life. we saw some action just a few minutes ago with a tactical operator on the porch roof. he broke the window on the left side room, what we call break and rake, he broke the window, raked the glass out, and he made an entry into that room. the way he did it, you can

assume that andre is not in that front left room. of course, they had the bearcat vehicle pulled right up to the front and if they are covering everything in the front. we don't know if they are still trying to negotiate with him, or if they are actually negotiating with him. it could be either one. but, you see that officer looking in the window on the left side, the two officers right there? that was an earlier shot where they took a resident out. so, they are trying to get closer in there, listen, cameras, and if they are talking with him, this is the best chance for him, if he will listen to negotiators, and possibly drop his emotional level and reason. >> and jim, on that point, officials say they believe gordon is alive. does that mean they are actually talking to him, do you think? >> well, they are trying, jonathan. they are trying to talk to him. they may be talking through the door, they may be just yelling through the door at him,

talking through the wall. ideally, it is over the phone. if he has a cell phone, we can use that. we prefer a hard-line phone, negotiators use, called a throw phone, basically an old-style telephone with a long line that you just toss in. so, you have to negotiate that in, sometimes. you have to negotiate the door in to open and the phone to go in, or you can send it in with a robot, or you can leave it outside the door, back off, and ask him to open the door and retrieve the phone so you can talk. if you can get him in that talking stage, then the negotiators can start to work to drop his emotion. all the effort now is to save this man's life. that is what the effort is, now. he is already apprehended. he is not going to escape. he has already committed multiple murders. but, the police and tactical operators, the commanders, they are not -- you know, they are

not the judge and jury. they are there to arrest him. of course, they want to arrest him safely. that is the goal. but, in doing that, they can't let him kill an officer, so they don't want to do any entry into the room with a flash bang so they can be killed. rather, they want to negotiate him out. if they can't do that, use gas to get him out, maybe break the door, send in a robot to get him out. they want to make him come out, rather than then go in. >> jim, let's talk more about what the police and s.w.a.t. team members could be talking to andre gordon about. could they be offering him food, or offering him the opportunity to talk to a family member? what kinds of -- bring us into what the conversations could be like? >> yeah, you are on point. but first, you have to listen. we used to say, if you want to be a negotiator, and be a good talker, you really have to be a good listener.

the first thing you have to do, is listen. he is there for a reason in his mind. it might not make sense to you, jonathan, or me, or to the negotiator on the phone, but it does make sense to him. he might have been seeking revenge on his family members because they had done him wrong, and he has been choking on that grudge. so, he did all of this, he has a reason for it. if you can get him to talk about it, then you need to listen, actively listen to that. negotiators are trained to do that. as you listen to him and ride along, spend some time listening, you can drop his emotional state. and then, you can start to ask him, why did this happen today, andre? why was today different than any other day? why did this all happen today? he will start to maybe give you reasons, and it doesn't mean that they are valid in a court of law or valid in society, but they are valid to him. so, negotiators have to listen to that. and then, as they go along with him for a while, then they may be able to get to where you are discussing. you know, "hey, why don't we take a break? are you hungry? can we send you something?

what would you like? i am hungry, myself. i have been here for five hours." so, "would you like something to eat? we will put it outside your door." you try to build some trust, some bond, maybe get him some food. because remember, you are trying to save his life. we have done this for guys, three, four days, trying to save their lives. eventually, you can, and you may have to shoot them in the meantime, but you can save their lives. that is what all of this is about at the moment, because he is not going to escape. he is not coming out of there. he is either going to be in custody, or he is going to be deceased. you want him to be in custody. that is why all of this s.w.a.t. movement is going on. you asked a good question about people close by, but remember, the rifles align a straight shot, so if you are behind the building on the right of your

screen there, if you are behind it, just on the other side of it, you don't have to be that far away if you are just behind that building. if the rifle can't see you, then you can't be shot by the rifle. so, i'm sure they have that perimeter cleared by line of sight for any site, from that seen by a rifle. there is a lot of rifles, tactical rifles pointing at that house from trenton, pd, squat. >> jim kavanaugh, i want you to stay with us. we are going to take a quick break in this breaking news coverage of this situation into trenton, new jersey. andre gordon, you see his picture there above me in a house in trenton after allegedly committing three murders this morning in fall township, pennsylvania. we will be right back. back. enr adults. ♪as you go with austedo♪ austedo xr significantly reduced dan's td movements. some people saw a response as early as 2 weeks. with austedo xr, dan can stay on his mental health meds- (dan) cool hair! (vo) austedo xr can cause depression, suicidal thoughts,

or actions in patients with huntington's disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, or have suicidal thoughts. don't take if you have liver problems, are taking reserpine, tetrabenazine, or valbenazine. austedo xr may cause irregular or fast heartbeat, or abnormal movements. seek help for fever, stiff muscles, problems thinking, or sweating. common side effects include inflammation of the nose and throat, insomnia and sleepiness. ♪as you go with austedo♪ ask your doctor for austedo xr. ♪austedo xr♪ jonathan here at msnbc in washington. we are watching this breaking news coverage coming out of trenton, new jersey. the video you are seeing there on the left, it is not life, it was recorded earlier. person you see above me is andre gordon, and he is hold up

in that house there in trenton after allegedly committing three murders in fall township, pennsylvania this morning. let me bring in rob d'amico, a former fbi supervisor. rob, georges elyse reports a police have told him the suspect is alone and there are no hostages. how does that change the calculus for law enforcement. you just wait him out? >> since there is no hostages, there is no urgency to do anything that is going to jeopardize his life or the life of an officer. so, time slows down completely because you are not worried about having to save someone else's life, should he interact that way. so, it slows down, everybody thinks about saving him. the officers are now in very safe positions so that if he does go violent, they are not going to be in great jeopardy,

but they will be able to respond quickly, and again, keep him into that small area, whatever they have him in. so, it has slowed down a bunch. >> rob, i am curious about something. how quickly can law enforcement find out information about a suspect? how quickly were they able to find out whether andre gordon has ties to trenton, or even to this particular house that he is in? >> its minutes. as soon as it starts happening, and you start getting information on the suspect, analysts start pulling all that stuff up, and they have databases, they have that full history, they just start unwinding that. especially when you have multiple crime scenes, because now they are interviewing the people at the first crime scenes that are able to talk about it, and everything he said or did during that incident is now getting fed to the negotiator, so they understand better when they start talking to him. you mentioned earlier about a lot of times with barricaded subjects, you don't want to, because you don't know why he

started this with family members, so you don't want to put someone on the phone that is going to agitate them further. if so, everything that is coming from these investigations is being pushed to the on scene commander, the tactical teams in the command post. they have analysts to start running this down, then everyone who came out of this residence that may know something is being talked to, too. >> rob, let me bring you back to something you said when we came on, you said, things slow down. i'm just wondering, how much patience do law enforcement officials have with a suspect who was holed up in a residence as the suspect, andre gordon, is right now. again, do they just wait him out? do they wait for as long as it takes for him to give himself up? or, is there a time limit on that patience? >> there is not. when i first got on the job

about 25, 26 years ago, there was. we had regular police officers that the fbi never really worried about overtime, but i know local teens had said, if we go on, if we go into overtime, we are going to end this thing, but those days have changed. everything from the negotiators working with the tactical teams. after waco, the fbi was criticized because the negotiators were doing one thing, the tactical folks were doing another. now on hrt, we send snipers and team leaders to the negotiation so we understand what they are doing and we trained together. so, everything is just about waiting it out. you don't have to put someone in jeopardy or put the subject in jeopardy by forcing him to do something. >> and this is video we are seeing recorded earlier. earlier today, pennsylvania officials held a press conference talking about what

happened in bucks county today. let's listen to a bit of that. >> 26-year-old andre gordon droving a style stolen vehicle which was stolen from trenton, new jersey, earlier this morning, forcibly broke into the residence, after which he shot and killed his 52-year-old stepmother, karen gordon, and his 13-year-old sister, kara gordon, who lived at the residence. there were three other individuals at the residence, including a minor inside the home, who were able to hide and avoid being shot by gordon as he went through the house, searching for them. following the shootings, at approximately 9:01 a.m., gordon drove to the unit block of edge lane, levittown, where he forcibly broke into a residence, after which he shot and killed 25-year-old taylor daniel, with whom he has two children.

following the shooting, she fled the scene. at the time of the shooting, there were four other individuals present inside at home, one of his was injured after being bludgeoned by gordon with the assault rifle. she was transported to jefferson campus for her injuries. at approximately 9:13 a.m., gordon committed a carjacking at gun point of a 44-year-old man from mooresville at the parking lot of a dollar general on bristol pike in mooresville. the operator of the vehicle did not suffer any injuries. gordon is believed to currently be homeless and has ties to the trenton area. at approximately 11:38 a.m., honda cr-v that was the carjacking victims beautiful -- vehicle from bucks county was located on the 100 block of miller street in trenton, new jersey at approximately 12:22 p.m. we received information that gordon is currently barricaded in new jersey with hostages. >> let's bring in dr. errol

southers, a former fbi agent and former fbi s.w.a.t. team member. dr. southers, help us understand what happened in bucks county, pennsylvania, considering that andre gordon allegedly killed family members. what might have driven him to do this? what might his motives be? >> jonathan, that lies at the heart of what is happening today. they will be taking a close look at that. my first guess would be that it is probably some kind of domestic related issue and it could be exacerbated by some kind of mental illness associated with this. your question earlier with the other guest about data and resources, they will be pulling everything they have on mr. gordon. they will be looking at his mental history that is not hipaa protected, they will be looking at any contact he has had with mental facilities, with law enforcement, any stayaway or restraining orders that might be in place and whenever these things happen, the real question as you have

asked, is why. so, that is going to rely with regards to the conversations that the crisis negotiators are having with him. that is going to lie at the core of some of their conversations with him to calm him down, to slow him down, to reason with him, and although s.w.a.t. is present, s.w.a.t. is there because they have a special skill set, but most importantly, s.w.a.t. is there to preserve life. at this point, the most important outcome is no further loss of life. >> a couple questions for you. first, in getting the information they needed to get about andre gordon, would they also reach out to other family members of andre gordon to get even more information, and to maybe even talk to him as a way of de-escalating and resolving this situation? >> they might reach out to

family members to gather the information, i don't know if they would put a family member on the phone with him because it might exacerbate what has happened already. again, everyone who has been killed today is related to him, so we don't know who he has issues with in this current social network or his current familiar network and putting someone on that may, in fact, heighten his anxiety is risky. so i would think they would have as many conversations with him, one on one with law enforcement and him only to keep him calm, to reason with him, and to keep them from coming out. >> let me have you put on your former fbi s.w.a.t. team member had. if you are still in the line of duty today, and in trenton, take us inside how you would get in, what you would be looking for once you got inside? the precautions you take, but also the signs and signals you are looking for in order to find a suspect. >> the precautions we take, jonathan, in my operator days, we would try to get a layout of

the location and we try to make sure we understand where the doors are, where the windows are, what exits, how many rooms, but this is all incumbent upon the fact that we need to know whether or not he is still armed, and most importantly, whether or not he is still alive. what we used to do is look at that layout, determine what team members would enter what location so it is totally secure. you don't want a suspect if we and you don't want to suspect to shoot. that would be a last resort. also make determinations on whether or not we are going to breach the door. is that necessary? are we going to insert gas into the location? is that necessary? these are all of the things that the team is considering for plans a, b, and c. planning for the worst, hoping for the best outcome, should they have to go to that location. >> one more question for you, how do you find out if he is armed? is that something that must be done visually by a law enforcement officer? or, do they send in -- maybe i have seen one too many action movies or police dramas on

television -- do you send in a robot as a way of having eyes inside, that don't put law enforcement at risk? >> jonathan, you haven't seen too many movies, that is pretty accurate. we do have assets and tools that can insert objects and devices to determine whether or not he is armed. you can see almost any location, if you put the right tool inside. i would imagine they are using those resources so they can be absolutely sure. you do not want that team to have to enter the building and get into a firefight with him, unnecessarily. the time is on their side, resources are on their side, but most importantly, the conversation they are having, with regards to hopefully having him walk out the door with his hands in the air, giving up. >> dr. errol southers, stay with us. we will take a quick break from our coverage of the situation in trenton, alleged murder suspect, trent eight, holed up inside a residence there in trenton, new jersey. we will be right back.

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good afternoon, again. i am here in washington, d.c. we are watching the unfolding events. the situation there in washington, d.c., 26-year-old andre gordon holed up in residential building in trenton since allegedly murdering three family members in bucks county, pennsylvania this morning. let's go to jim kavanaugh, a former atf special agent in

charge, and an nbc news terrorism analyst. jim, talk to us about what police are likely doing right now. i do you talk to someone who has allegedly killed three people, and knows they are going to have to face the consequences for that? >> you know, you can negotiate with anyone, jonathan. we are all human beings. even killers are human beings, even terrorist or human beings. as a negotiator, you have to reject people who say, you can't negotiate with this guy, or you can't negotiate with that guy. sometimes, it doesn't work. there are some examples of even terrorist negotiating cases. killers do it all the time. even though this guy was on a killing spree today and killed members of his family, the negotiators possibly can get to him. he is very alone in the world. so, if you are a negotiator or a commander on this and you are looking at getting him on the

phone, this guy has nobody left. he has killed his people closest to him, his stepmom, his daughter, his wife, beaten up his mother in law, i think. so, who does he have? he has no one. so, he is very alone in the world, he is isolated, and the negotiator has to try to reach into him and build a level of what we call of attunement with him, a little level of trust, a little level of listening, to see if maybe they can talk them down and save him life. that is the goal of the police now. when people look at a s.w.a.t. team like this, all they see is military helmets, and dacey rifles, and they want to attribute all these bad things to the s.w.a.t. team, but that is not the way it really works, in real life. in real life, the s.w.a.t. team operators here, from the commanders, to the operators, to the negotiators, the chief negotiator, they are all working to try to save this guys life. and at the same time, they are working to make sure that no

one in the neighborhood is shot, that they are not shot, that, of course, other things he might do -- there has been many cases where barricaded suspects light the house on fire, and then it becomes very exacerbated, because he could be in the house with a rifle shooting out while it is burning. firefighters can't get close. you know, you have exposures on either side. it becomes a very volatile situation. so, the danger is not over, but it is greatly reduced because there are no hostages, just a killer isolated. >> and jim, let me get you on one more question because you are talking about de-escalating the situation, listening to the suspect. but, what if trent eight, or what if a suspect in this situation isn't talking? >> yeah, well, we have had those cases, too, where they don't want to talk. you just have to do something to try to get them to a place where they might want to talk to you.

i had a case of a guy with a bomb strapped to his chest. we did talk to him in a while, but we weren't getting anywhere. we shot a baton round through the window, which is basically a shotgun that shoots a nightstick that breaks the window. that was enough to get him to surrender. it scared him enough. other times, we go for days where the guy won't talk and you have to shoot gas in there and say, you know, pick up the phone. we don't want to put any more gas in there. just talk to us. but, you have to make those decisions on deployment of gas or different rounds, because if the situation is escalating or de-escalating, and you can determine what his estate is -- one other thing they can do is just breach the door. in other words, you can just preach the door and not go in. you know, they can blow it with an explosive charge, they can

shoot it with a robot, ran it, and just open the door. what it does, is it relieves his feeling of security in that space, in that room he is bunkered up in. he might be hiding behind a couch with his ar 15. he is homeless, but he has an ar 15 that is worth $400 to $1500 and he may be behind the couch, waiting for the police to come in. so, the tactic is, they might just bust open the door or not come in. now, trying talking with him again, where his sense of security is somewhat breached, he might be able to talk. now, you know, you asked a good question in how long could it last. well, it is not going to last forever because the police are going to use a carrot and stick approach. they are going to have to bust a window, a door, shoot some gas, whatever, try and talk to him. >> jim kavanaugh come hang with us. we want to bring in nbc news correspondent george solis live in trenton, new jersey. george, tell us what is life happening right now on the ground?

>> reporter: jonathan, a very fluid scene right now. one thing we have noticed, the audience participation with this, if you will, the people that have been watching this for the last hour or so are starting to dissipate. what we are seeing is a number of those police and law enforcement presence here sort of on standby. one thing we have noticed is there hasn't been any sort of honorable bangs, or shooting, or anything that would indicate that they are making a forced entry outside of that initial video we saw of those s.w.a.t. officers on the roof escorting all of those people outside of what is now confirmed a duplex here in this neighborhood. what officials told me earlier today is that they were able to remove everyone from that general area out of danger, out of harms way. they do believe the suspect is hold inside of this dwelling, this duplex. they do believe he is alive, so we have some images and have heard some rumblings of those s.w.a.t. officers trying to bring this to a peaceful resolution at this hour. again, the presumption is that he is somewhere inside his home, some connection to this dwelling. one thing we heard from the

bucks county officials and that this all began here in this trenton area. he carjacked someone here before crossing into falls township, before carrying out these alleged murders here, killing those family members, and then carjacking someone in pennsylvania before coming back here to trenton. authorities, keep in mind, said this was a homeless individual, so the exact connection to this duplex remains unknown at this hour. just to the point some of our analysts have been saying, this obviously may not last forever, but obviously authorities here still on standby and we are still waiting and heeding any advice as they tell us, as far as moving away to a closer distance. at last check, this suspect was armed with an assault rifle. a little while ago, there was a drone flying overhead, we haven't seen that in some time, but the police presence here still very active, jonathan. >> george solis, thank you very much. reporting to us live from trenton, new jersey. i want to bring in right now the mayor of trenton, new jersey, . thank you for

jumping on the phone, and talking with us. any updates you can give us, from your vantage point, having been -- you know, getting regular briefings on the situation? >> well, i just have to commend area law enforcement, county police, sheriffs, they are all working in concert since this morning. they were able to locate the suspect back to the house and we just want to keep the neighbors save and make sure he is apprehended and that he, himself, is able to surrender peacefully. >> when were you notified about the situation in trenton? because this has been happening since about 12:20 p.m., eastern time. >> yeah, i was notified -- >> mayor, can you hear us? mayor gusciora, can you hear us?

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you are looking at live pictures of phillips avenue in trenton, new jersey. this is where 26-year-old andre

gordon has been held up since about 12:20 eastern time since allegedly killing his stepmother, younger sister, and the mother of his two children in bucks county, pennsylvania. i want to bring back in the mayor of trenton, mayor reed gusciora. mayor gusciora, thank you so much for hopping on the phone with us as you head to the scene there in trenton. i'm going to re-ask the question i asked of you before the break which is, when were you notified about what was happening in that house on phillips avenue? >> i was informed of the initial carjacking, and then it became rather serious once we heard that it resulted in a homicide. so, i have been in contact with our police, county prosecutor's office, the sheriffs department, and other area law enforcement agencies. all are working in concert to

get a peaceful resolution. i have to commend our police agencies for evacuating the neighborhood, evacuating people that were in the house, and we would like a peaceful resolution without any further death. >> mayor, it has been reported that andre gordon is homeless. but, i am wondering, was he known to trenton officials, in any way? >> it is all under investigation, but i am led to believe, yes. >> and once you get to the scene, mayor gusciora, what will you be doing? who will you be talking to? >> i will be with the county prosecutor, police director, and others that are coordinating law enforcement. i am trying to stay out of the

way, but i want to make sure that our law enforcement agencies are all supported by the government. >> and mayor, one more question for you as you head to the scene, are the people in the neighborhood safe? we are looking at scenes now, live pictures of phillips avenue, and our reporter, george solis, has been talking about the fact that no one has been asked to shelter in place, people were out in the street at a distance. are people in the neighborhood safe? >> i believe so. there are plenty of police there that have been ushering them up the block. a lot of people came out, out of curiosity. and then, also, neighbors were all evacuated from their homes. so, police are working with them neighbors, and we are trying to get a peaceful resolution, but

keeping everyone out of harms way. >> all right, trenton mayor gusciora. thank you so much for hopping on the phone and giving us that update. let me bring in rob d'amico, he is a former fbi supervisor. rob, what are you saying? let's say you are on the ground there, what are you saying to the law enforcement officials who are now inside that house on phillips avenue? >> well, the teams that are in there, you probably have the tactical team and negotiating team that are trying to talk to him. like i said, they tried the bullhorn, they are inside, probably trying to talk to basically a blank wall. they are saying, hey, they talked to a wall for hours, and no one has ever talked back, and several hours later, they finally just started talking. so, they are never going to give up trying to talk, if he

is not. even if they may think he is deceased based on some of the actions that may have happened earlier, they are never going to assume that until it is actually proven. because you don't want to actually say that, then people start letting their guard down, then people start doing things and if it turned not to be true, it is embarrassing and also dangerous. so, until you actually have that, depending on if they heard a gunshot or whatever is going on -- and as i told the 3:00 show, we have seen suspects fake their own deaths. they have done one around, and people thought they killed themselves, when, in fact, they were waiting for law enforcement to come in and ambushed them one more time. so, they are using robots, they have drones they can fly indoors to actually start taking a look at if he is, in fact, still alive. if they are communicating with him, they are just trying to end it peacefully.

because right now, it is all about just ending this peacefully. time is not an issue with that. they will just keep talking as much as they can. >> rob, let me ask you one more question. how many s.w.a.t. team members, law enforcement members go into a situation like this? is there a set number? is there a template? or, does it depend on the type of facility, or dwelling that is at issue? >> it is absolutely situation dependent. but, it is very, very tough, in fact, to keep that attention span. so, you get the team that is surrounding the perimeter to be very small, because you are just concentrating, if that door opens, what you are going to do and all of those things. so, you rotate those teams out often. you rotate the teams out because it does take a lot of mental preparing. those teams on the outside,

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most concerned about, given what we know right now? >> the one thing i am most concerned about, jonathan, is that the suspects possibly being still armed. i am assuming they understand and have enough information about that before they do anything, but i think that is most important, if they are going to consider breaching this building or bringing him out without letting him walk out. >> all right. with that, we are going to leave it there. dr. errol southers, former fbi special agent and former fbi s.w.a.t. team member. thank you very much for your contributions today. again, you are looking at live pictures there from trenton, new jersey, phillips avenue, were 26-year-old andre gordon has been held up since about 12:20 p.m. eastern time after allegedly murdering three family members in bucks county, pennsylvania. stay here on msnbc for continuing coverage of this situation in trenton, new jersey. jersey.

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