welcome, everybody. i am alex witt here at the top of the hour. we have been following this breaking news.

you are looking at the 100 block of miller street, that is in trenton, new jersey. that home, dead center there, is a home that police, s.w.a.t., and other officials are trying to keep a very close eye there, on a suspect that has been holed up inside, by the name of andre gordon. a 26-year-old man, whom we heard in neighboring falls township in bucks county, pennsylvania, a 20, 25 minute drive away, alleged to kill three people earlier today, 9:00 eastern. those being his 52-year-old stepmother, 13-year-old sister, and the first of two deadly locations. he killed his 25-year-old, the mother of his two children. this is according to the chief of police in bucks county, pennsylvania. he then went on to carjack a good gray honda.

the driver of the car was not injured, certainly scared, but was able to provide the information about the car. there, you see the car was caught on camera in his travels between fall township and getting to that home where he has some sort of an association in trenton, new jersey. i am being told the name of the street is philip street. we had been given erroneous information earlier, miller street. but, now it is philip street in trenton, new jersey. we have a couple people we can get to for information on this and what may be happening in terms of negotiations. not only have nbc's george salinas, who has been helping us through, but we also have rob d'amico, a former fbi hostage negotiator, and also jim kavanaugh, a former atf hostage negotiator. it looks like hostage negotiating might be precisely what is going on right now. we have yet to hear any differently at this point. george solis, i know you have

been standing on a roof down the block with a birds eye view of everything. tell us what has happened in the past few minutes since we have spoken? >> reporter: we are on the ground getting a better sense of a better view of the police presence i have been talking about here over the last hour. pretty much status quo at this point, it is a tense sentient as i mentioned earlier when you have all of these police jurisdictions, s.w.a.t. team has assembled right outside the home, going into the home. at this point, we don't know if any other hostages have been released. we don't know about the whereabouts of this shooter, where exactly in the home this individual might be. what you do see, though, as i mentioned before, the number of people here on the street conversing, monitoring the situation, seeing as the police activity is unfolding. we haven't seen police with long guns, but they are wearing bulletproof vests and making sure people don't go beyond the police perimeter, and guiding traffic as there is a fairly large perimeter. they are not letting people into that area, sometimes you will see authorities letting people into nearby homes just to

let them get to where they need to go but in this case they are not letting anyone through, but telling people to seek shelter. as we saw in fall township, the earlier call where this shooting was taking place -- but now we are just waiting to see what happens. that is one thing i want to note, though. i don't know if we will see it from my vantage point, but they did launch a drone above the home, it has been hovering now for the better part of 30 minutes or so. what the drone may be doing, what it is looking for, we are still trying to get more information there. we haven't heard any audible flash bangs, or explosions, or anything that indicates there has been forced entry into this home at this point. we saw s.w.a.t. officers on the roof of the home, but obviously this is a very fluid situation and we are keeping a close watch here on the situation and of course listening to police and any instructions they may be providing us. >> you make a very staged observation, and i will further that point you made about no audio, no gunshot, no flash bang, anything like that.

george, thank you so much. let us know if anything happens. we will get right back to you. i am joined now by former fbi supervisor at hostage rescue team negotiator, rob d'amico. and then, we have former atf hostage team and rescue negotiator, jim kavanaugh. so, jim, you are new to the conversation since we started this coverage about an hour and a half ago. tell me that point i was just making with george, the fact that it has been relatively silent, we are not hearing any gunshots, we are not hearing any flash bangs, and yet we have seen not only hostages getting out of that house thanks to s.w.a.t. and police bringing them down safely from the roof on a ladder, but we have also watched s.w.a.t. team members and police climb into that home. what does that tell you? because you think a flash bang, something like that, would agitate someone like the suspect, who is believed to be holed up inside.

>> right. what the on scene commander has to do, alex, is what you are seeing here. this is textbook, really. they are locating them, then they isolate, then they evacuate. when we see people leaving, we don't really know if they are hostages being released or just neighbors being evacuated. i would say this looks a lot like neighbors being evacuated from nearby buildings. they obviously have him may be in the same building, but they are evacuating people that are nearby because the weapon he has can shoot through the walls. >> right, but jim -- and good point, we are not sure whether that is a single-family dwelling, or a duplex type thing, a side-by-side dwelling. that is something we have talked about. but, here is a question. if those residents were being taken out of the left side screen, the left side half of the house, if you will, of the duplex, they were being asked to walk in front of the right side. if that is presumably where andre gordon is, you would

think with that kind of weapon, they would keep them away from any windows. >> that would be the normal practice. i would say he probably doesn't have access to the right side. they have him located in there, and he might be isolated to a rear room where he can't observe people moving, or the back left, we don't know, it could be the attic. but, tactical operators -- as you were discussing with rob and i listened to most of that conversation -- after you and i talked earlier in the day, we talked about if there is hostages, or if it is just a barricaded subject. when hostages are there, everything is different for the on scene commander's decision- making process. he has to have an emergency untold team at the breach point. obviously, they are, because they are inside the residence. so, the tactical operators are going to be just opposite the door or wall where the subject is. now, he might not -- he has

four walls, he has a ceiling, he has a roof. there is somewhere around him, the 360 degrees, that they can make an emergency assault if they have to rescue someone. they move stealthily, they are not going to give up their presence. but, they have been in place, alex, where they know, normal practices, if they are letting people egress, they are regressing safely. because someone is egress in the residence, doesn't mean they are a hostage. they could be a neighbor, a person who lives there, but wasn't held hostage, could have been hiding in another room. so, we don't really know who he is holding, if he is holding anybody, we don't have an exact number of that. we do know that he has killed family members, and this is really, really important, because some people will tell the police, oh, he wouldn't kill that person, that is his father's mother's daughter's sister. no, people killed their family members all the time, every day. >> scary.

>> this guy is a spree killer who has killed three people today -- today -- just in the last three hours, he has killed three people. so, he is very, very, very dangerous. negotiators now are trying -- i heard rob discuss it, they are spot on, they were trying to talk to him. they are using his name. you know, "talk to us, listen to us." >> "what's going on?" right. >> "what's going on? let's see what you need." so they are trying to grades -- engage and it is critical that they do. >> let me pick up on the fact that he is very, very dangerous. we have some sound from the news conference that happened over an hour ago now, and this is from the bucks county district attorney that will validate everything jim is saying, and the danger of this man, 26-year-old andre gordon. let's play that now. >> forcibly broke into the

residence after which he shot and killed his 52-year-old stepmother, karen gordon, and his 13-year-old sister, karen gordon, who lived at the residence. there were three other individuals at the residence, including a minor, inside the home, who were able to hide and avoid being shot by gordon. at approximately 9:01 a.m., gordon drove to the unit block of edgewood lane, levittown, where he forcibly broke into a residence after which he shot and killed 25-year-old taylor daniel, with whom he has two children. >> so, now we are going to show you sort of a big picture look at the map, a timeline, as well. but, where these incidents took place, and it is all within about a 30 minute drive from start to finish, in terms of distance. although, of course, it did take longer than that to have all of this transpired. so, jimmy, when you think about where he is now, and the place

from which she came this morning, and killing those people, the danger of someone like this that has an assault style weapon in his hands, it has to make hostage negotiating and also securing the perimeter there a really sensitive, sensitive situation? >> no, it is, of course. but, all s.w.a.t. teams, tactical teams, srt teams trained for this all the time. this is what they understand, how to operate in this environment. what they have done here is textbook. they have moved in, they have isolated him, they have closed the perimeter down to the breach point. i'm sure they have an emergency assault team ready to go. they are trying to negotiate with him. they are trying to get him on the phone. the drones, alex, as you pointed out earlier -- what are the drones doing? you asked a question, which is a smart question to ask. what are the tactical operators doing? besides what they are doing inside, they are trying to look

into the windows with drones, with scopes on rifles. you are trying to see who was in there. you know, rob talked about somebody feigning their death, but they are also trying to see, is there another person inside? or, are they alone? are they moving around? i would say that he is very manic. if you haven't killed himself already, he is very manic because of the spree of kills earlier, so he is in a very high charged state, fast-moving brain activity. this guy is looking around, quick guide head movements in a panic. he doesn't know what is going on out there. he knows the police are out there, but he doesn't know what to do next. i mean, he doesn't really know. should i look out the window? should i crawl over here on my belly? should i talk to them? what should i do? so, as time passes now -- and there is no violence in suing -- if someone is not in their bleeding to death, that is what the tactical commander wants to know.

is someone in their bleeding to death? because then, time becomes against you, when you have to move. think of the uvalde case. what we used to tell all of our operators and negotiators, we always told them, for the commander, time is neutral. sometimes, it is on your side. sometimes, it is against you. the critical decision for the commander is to be able to know what it is right now. that is why they need that intelligence. is someone in there, and are they wounded? because if they are, they could bleed out and you might have to make an emergency assault. now, if there is no one else in there, then time becomes more to you because he is just barricaded by himself. or, you know, we don't know the situation. we have heard there is a hostage, but we don't really have any details yet. that is what they are trying to do. they are trying to listen with their microphones. rob described all of those tools that law enforcement had, baseballs, mics on the walls, and they are listening. they are mixed -- listening in those walls and trying to

determine, is someone in there with him? they have to find that information out. >> yeah, 100%. i want to bring rob back in the conversation, as well. because rob, you have made that point jim was highlighting about he could theoretically fake his death, he could be very quiet right now, and have -trapped himself. but, how complicated is a process like that? if he hadn't been to this house, and he had only showed up in the wake of killing these three people -- as was stated by the district attorney there in bucks county -- a difficult is that to even do? i mean, how likely is that to even play into this scenario? >> we have seen it more in some of the school shootings and other mass shootings where they know police are going to go back, and actually -- booby- trapped the house because they

know police are going to be there. i think the chances of this one are probably less, but again, if you have a body that you believe is deceased, there are very safe ways to move the body to figure that out, and we did that from overseas. so, just incorporate it now. everything about safety, if there are no hostages. so, you just start doing it the right way. you get the robots in, you confirm if you think he is deceased, then you can get the body, and roll it back depending on the situation, or you have a robot that can move it. so, it goes back to, there is no one in there, you just keep doing it the safest way possible, at that point. and again, it depends on when they are interviewing the people in the house, was he in there before? was that his room for something? that lessens the chances of -- and now, you are just looking to make sure, because the faking the death, we have seen a couple of times, and it shocks some folks because we had a lot of people at the

command post wanting to do things, and then it was just the safety of like, hey, they actually got a drone right over him and they can see the chest moving. and then, they did some other things to confirm that he was actually still alive. >> gotcha. okay, guys, we are going to take another short break here. nbc's george solis is on the scene, he has spoken with officials from trenton, new jersey as we get a live look from philip street, watching everything unfold here after three people were killed in neighboring fall township in bucks county. we'll be right back. stay with us. with us. downy r♪ it helps remove odors 3x better than detergent alone. it worked guys! ♪yeahhhh♪ downy rinse and refresh. with nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain.

ask about nurtec odt. approaching 17 past the hour giving you a look at the 100 block of phillips avenue in trenton, new jersey, where we believe 26-year-old andre gordon, after killing three family members in neighboring

fall township in bucks county, pennsylvania, that he is hold up inside there. let's go to nbc's trent eight, he has been on the scene for the better part of an hour. i understand you have just spoken with someone from the trenton police department. so, tell us what you are told? >> i just got off the phone with detective rios, who tells me at this hour, they do not believe there are more people inside at home where the suspect has been hold up. that is to say there are no more hostages, no reason, no indication to believe he may be dead, so the assumption is that he is still alive. another question has come up whether this is a single-family home or a duplex, authories are not sure at this point, based on what they just told me over the phone, but they do understand that a lot of these neighborhoods, our duplexes. so, at this point, the believe that there are no more people inside this home, they believed they were taken out and the suspect is still inside the home. the assumption is that he is

still alive and what we have here is a lot of people sort of just watching and waiting as police make their move. we know s.w.a.t. has been inside at home, whether they have an indication of where the suspect is at that time, still unclear. what i have also mentioned is that we have seen police sort of guiding traffic making sure no one goes in. we haven't heard any audible flash bangs, gunshots, anything that indicates there has been a forcible entry into this home. what we have seen, s.w.a.t. officers on the roof. again, just in from trenton police officials, they believe that no one else is inside of this home and they believe the suspect is still alive somewhere inside of that dwelling, alex. >> george, was there speculation, if not confirmation on the people who were taken out of that dwelling? again, they are not even sure whether this was a single- family home or a side-by-side duplex -- which is common in the neighborhood. but, the people we have seen being taken out safely, do we know if they were a part of this? if they engaged, or were aware of andre gordon being in their

home? do we have any idea who these people were? it has been suggested by jim kavanaugh that they could just be neighbors, living in the other half of a home that is occupied by the suspect. >> reporter: yeah, that is a good question, alex, and one we are working to get the answer to. what of my first questions to the authorities, do we know how many people were inside of this duplex or single-family home, and what the connection might be? at this point, they are still working to piece that together. one thing we noted from the earlier press conference and the information police put out in pennsylvania on the bucks county side is that he had some connection to that area. this is where that stolen car was found. but, how all of this ties together remains to be seen, alex. >> clearly, when it is a breaking news situation, it is fluid. but you have given us a critical component of information that the police there in trenton, new jersey do not believe there is anybody hold up inside, other than the suspect. again, 26-year-old andre gordon

in the wake of killing three family members about 25 minutes away in pennsylvania. george, i appreciate that because it brings me back to you, jim kavanaugh. and i will also bring in, in just a moment, rob d'amico about this. how does this change the equation, jim, when you know you are not dealing with hostages? again, that was confirmed. so now, what is the protocol for these s.w.a.t. members and police officers that have gone inside the residence? >> well, it changes the dynamic for the on scene commander greatly because he doesn't have to have an emergency assault team ready to preach because there are guys -- the guy is in there by himself. you are not going to give him a target, you are not going to let him shoot one of your tactical operators. the equation becomes very much different. you are going to try to negotiate with him, you have him isolated and contained. you have them in a place where he can't shoot any citizens and he is not going to be able to shoot the tactical officers,

who are under great cover. as rob outlined earlier -- and he is exactly right -- they set up their ballistic blankets and get their purchase to be able to see inside. they are very schooled in this. and then, i would say after a while if you can't even get him on the phone, i would probably looking for -- they will probably be deploying some gas, tear gas to try to force him out. because you don't want to charge in, people talking about flash bangs -- if the guy is barricaded, you don't want to go in there with a flash bang and -- what are you going to do, kill him so he doesn't kill himself? that is not the procedure. what you want to do is come out, so you are going to try to negotiate at first. if that doesn't work, maybe tear gas, robots. you know, more talk, more teargas. you are trying to force him to either surrender or come out. he can come out peacefully, or he can come out shooting, in which case he will be shot. he is not going to win. if he is barricaded alone, he is not going to win, s.w.a.t. is going to win. that is why you want to try to negotiate. >> it is only a matter of time.

>> it is dangerous. yeah. he can burn the house down, too. people should know that. i grew up in a neighborhood just like this in north new jersey not far from there, and many of these homes are compartmentalized. so, i would not be surprised if they would take out other sections of that dwelling. they could rent rooms, there could be four, six apartments in there and that is who the police were evacuating, so that is not very surprising at all to me, that he could just be located in one section. the officers certainly know where he is, so they have made a lot of progress here. a lot of progress. they have him in a good spot, a very good spot. >> that is good to know. that's good. they definitely have the upper hand at this point. we were listening to the police chief there in bucks county, p.a., about a half hour ago. he was thinking not only state police but members of the atf as well as fbi. you, jim, have worked in atf. rob d'amico who is joining us now again, working with the fbi.

rob, have you -- and then i will ask the same question of you, jim -- have you, as a negotiator -- and this is not only just for hostages, this is to negotiate a suspect to give himself up -- have you ever had to go inside a location like this, and not just conduct it's on the phone, have you ever gotten that close to a suspect, and tried to talk him out of perhaps killing himself, or anyone else, if there were hostages? which, again, doesn't appear to be the case right now. >> i have actually been the operator who is in charge of the negotiator that is standing there. so, when you have a negotiator that close, the negotiator is in the kitchen, and the subject is in the room adjacent to it and he is close enough to talk. you have an operator that is fully kitted out covering that negotiator. i have done that. i haven't been the negotiator inside. i know a ton of them that were. when you teach the school, you practice that. when you go through the school, you practice getting in and talking to him. but otherwise, you have safety around him.

>> yeah. how about you, jim? have you had to be the negotiator, and be that close, presumably as close as negotiators might be right now to andre gordon? >> well, i have commanded cases where we have set up for negotiators, with people with bombs strapped on them, and killing people. of course, i was a negotiator at waco, where the bullets were coming through the walls as my positions because they had a 50 caliber rifle, ed 75 shooters, and fully automatic machine guns, and they fired 13,000 rounds at us that morning. so, yes, we have been in danger when we were negotiating. we have tried, like rob said, when we send negotiators up front, they are already outfitted in all of the tactical gear. they go get an operator to cover them, they sometimes go to a place -- they have to yell or talk to bullhorns, they have that equipment. they are in the house, like rob said. they could be yelling through

the door at the guy, but he might be very unresponsive. as a commander, i have dealt with guys that sometimes take days, they won't answer you. and you just -- you have to use gas or some other persuasive way, robots, to go in and see if you can see him, locate him, try to entice him out. we have shot people that we still negotiate out. i mean, there is always room for peace. the police always have that angst. the way i like to describe it, alex, is on a larger stage, it is the state department diplomats and the pentagon. the defense department. one is the diplomats, they are talking peace, the other is the strength. and you can't do it without either one. they both advise the president. two what is the decision he's going to make, as to what is going to happen in a conflict overseas? well, this is a very microcosm of that kind of thinking.

most of the s.w.a.t. teams -- and i know fbi and atf -- we stage ours very similar. the way i like to do it as a commander, sit on one side of the table and i am looking at what i call the three wise men. the chief negotiator, the tactical chief, and the chief of intelligence. three of my agents, sitting right across from me at the table. of course, we are just feet from the other team. we might be in a house across the street, or in a command vehicle. we can hear the negotiations, if we want to. we can put them on a speaker, we can put them on the headphones. we don't always want to listen to that, but we can. all the decisions are made right there. the critical thing, is for the on-scene commander to be able to do de-escalation, if he knows how to read de- escalation, he can make the appropriate decision of where to go. and i think we are going to see tear gas.

i think we are going to see tear gas, is what i think. >> okay. i am going to bet you are right. we have a couple wiseman here, speaking of wiseman helping us get through this breaking news situation -- guys, we are going to take a short break. one thing i was concerned about, we know there was an ar 15 style weapon on the premises there with andre gordon, the suspect. it just worries me. i know you have spoken about the kevlar and the types of things they have to ensure that they are safe, but we also know the power of those kinds of weapons. it just -- it is something that i just can't stop thinking about, and that is the safety of those s.w.a.t. members that are inside there. potentially, if to jim's description, he is manic, erratic, and goodness knows what he might try to do if he is caught in a corner. we are going to take a short break right here and be back in just a few minutes with this breaking news right here on msnbc. stay with us. stay with us. we're talking about cashbackin. we're not talking about practice? no.

we're talking about cashbackin. we're talking about cashbackin. we're talking about cashbackin. not a game! we've been talking about practice for too long. -word. -no practice. we're talking about cashbackin. we're talking about cashbackin. i mean, we're not talking about a game! cashback like a pro with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. ♪♪ ugh! nope! try my old spice you can use it on your pits, chest, and even, your... toes?

[both] oh that's fresh! ♪♪ ♪ old spice whistle ♪ (vo) if you have graves' disease... ...and blurry vision, you need clear answers.♪♪ people with graves' could also get thyroid eye disease, or t-e-d, which may need a different doctor. find a t-e-d eye specialist at isitted.com. have heart failure with unresolved symptoms? it may be time to see the bigger picture. heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms like carpal tunnel syndrome, shortness of breath, and irregular heartbeat could mean something more serious, called attr-cm a rare, underdiagnosed disease that worsens over time. sound like you? call your cardiologist and ask about attr-cm. there's nothing better than a subway series footlong. except when you add a new footlong sidekick. like the ultimate bmt with the new footlong pretzel. nothing like a sidekick that steps up in crunch time.

[laughing] not cool man. every epic footlong deserves the perfect sidekick.

you can make money the hard way as a bullfighter or a human cannonball... or save money the easy way, with xfinity mobile. existing customers can get a free line of our most popular unlimited plan for a year!

not only will you save hundreds but you'll also be joining millions who have connected to america's most reliable 5g network. sure is a lot safer than becoming a stuntman for money. get a free line of unlimited intro for a year when you buy one unlimited line. visit xfinitymobile.com today to learn more. 32 past the hour as we are continuing, everybody, covering this breaking news happening on the 100 block of phillips avenue in trenton, new jersey. we are waiting to see the outcome of 26-year-old andre gordon, who is allegedly holed up in that house just on the left of your screen, the one with the red siding there. he is a man accused of killing three people in neighboring bucks county, fall township,

pennsylvania, about 20, 25 minutes away. he got that information after hearing a news conference about an hour and a half ago from not only the district attorney of bucks county with the chief of police. we are going to play part of what we learn from them. take a listen to this, everyone. >> 26-year-old andre gordon, driving a stolen vehicle -- which was carjacked from trenton, new jersey earlier in the morning -- forcibly broke into the residence. after which, he shot and killed his 52-year-old stepmother, karen gordon, and his 13-year- old sister, kara gordon. who lived at the residence. there were three other individuals at the residence, including a minor inside the home, who were able to hide and avoid being shot by gordon as he went through the house and searched for them. following the shootings, at approximately 9:01 a.m., gordon drove to the unit block of edgewood lane, levittown, where he forcibly broke into a residence, after which he shot

and killed 25-year-old taylor daniel, with whom he has two children. following the shooting, he fled the scene. at the time of the shooting, there were four other individuals present inside at home, one of which was injured after being bludgeoned by gordon with the assault rifle. she was transported to jefferson campus for her injuries. at approximately 9:13 a.m., gordon committed a carjacking at gun point of a 44-year-old man from mooresville at the parking lot of a dollar general at bristol pike in mooresville. the operator of the vehicle did not suffer any injuries. gordon is believed to currently be homeless, and has ties to the trenton area. at approximately 11:38 a.m., the honda cr-v -- the carjacking victim's vehicle from bucks county -- was located on occupied on the 100 block of miller street in trenton, new

jersey. at approximately 12:22 p.m., we received information that gordon is currently barricaded in new jersey with hostages. >> okay, and that is where we have gotten the majority of our information, everyone, on the three deceased, the carjacking victim -- who fortunately was not injured -- and the one family member, the mother of the 25-year-old mother of his two children who was bludgeoned, but is expected to survive. she has been transported to the hospital for treatment of her injuries. a little bit of confusion, you just heard the quote there about miller street being the location. perhaps george solis, our nbc news correspondent on the scene there can clarify that. we are also hearing phillips avenue in trenton. maybe there is perpendicular streets there? it is one or the other, but can you clear that up, where exactly this home is located?

>> reporter: yeah, alex, forgive me for not having that readily available. i haven't really had a chance to triangulate the home, specifically. for the moment, the most recent piece of information that we can report to you is in a conversation with trenton police officials. they tell me at this point, there are no hostages, no one else inside at home and it is just the suspect who they believe at this hour is still alive inside the home, which changes the equation, it changes a lot of variables for the s.w.a.t. officers who have been on standby here going inside of the home. we have seen the imagery of s.w.a.t. officers on the roof entering. at this hour, we are not sure from police because they have not been able to clarify if this is a single-family home or a dwelling. one other note that you heard about that press conference in bucks county is that they say this suspect is homeless but has ties to the trenton area. at this point, 30 is not sure what the connection is with this specific home. that sort of has been the main focal point of this standoff investigation. but again, authorities telling us no one inside at home.

they believe the suspect is somewhere inside of that home. every time every so often you hear rumblings on the street, s.w.a.t. seems to be going in, making some moves, but we are not hearing any audible flash bangs, or grenades, or explosions to indicate there is any sort of forcible entry. what i will note about the presence of people out here is that there are a lot of people. some people pulled up chairs, just waiting to see how this all unfolds. earlier this morning when the shooting was happening, what you did hear from the authorities there is that they were encouraging people to stay indoors, shelter in place. you are not seeing that here, which could be indicative that authorities know where the suspect is in the home, they may have a plan to go in there. of course this is just speculation at this point, but based on what authorities have told us, he is the only person inside of that home right now. the police presence here, very large. they are making sure people don't go beyond the police barrier here. there is a drone, i don't know if we can show it to you from this angle.

we will get that clarity for you, alex, as far as where this exact location is here in relation to what you heard in the press conference and where we are, specifically. right now, things remaining quiet. we are hearing rumblings from the street, waiting to get more information from authorities on whether or not they have moved in, whether the suspect is dead or alive, but they are telling us alive at this point. very fluid, very active, and of course drawing a lot of attention in this neighborhood in trenton, alex. >> we think we may have the clarity that i was asking about at the beginning with my question. we believe that the car was found on miller street and that the home is located on phillips avenue. that is the most recent information we have, and so, there you have it. if you confirm that later on, that is great. but we are grateful you got the information about there being no hostages inside believed to be in that home at that point, and again that home on phillips street. thank you, george, for the very latest. i am going to get to what is happening with that drone up in

the sky that we got a shot from george's cameraman to show us where that is. i am going to ask questions of rob d'amico and jim kavanaugh on the other side of this very short break, as to what that drone might be doing there and the information it could be providing in this breaking news situation. stay with us. we will be right back here on msnbc. msnbc. complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. there's nothing better than a subway series footlong.

except when you add an all new footlong sidekick. like the philly with a new $2 footlong churro. sometimes the sidekick is the main event. you would say that. every epic footlong deserves the perfect sidekick. but st. jude has gotten us through it. st. jude is hope for every child diagnosed with cancer because the research is being shared all over the world. (ella) fashion moves fast. (jen) so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. (ella) we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (jen) that's enterprise intelligence. (vo) it's your vision, it's your verizon. every day, more dog people, and more vets are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. they're quitting the kibble. and kicking the cans. and feeding their dogs dog food that's actually well, food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies.

portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. get 50% off your first box at thefarmersdog.com/realfood

welcome back, everyone. 42 past the hour, we are going to bring you a look right now, we have a live picture of this drone we were talking about before the break. nbc's george solis had showed this to us. this is taped picture, but we give it to you because you are able to get a pretty good look at this drone that must be somewhere above phillips avenue, under which there is this home that we have 26-year-old andre gordon holed up in, the suspect in three killings earlier in the neighboring fall township

in bucks county, pennsylvania. jim kavanaugh, i would like to ask you this drone, what kind of information it might be providing? it looks to be fairly high in the air. i am curious how accurate these things are. are they merely drones that would have a camera attached, that would be able to look into that home? >> well, it is just a camera. it looks like the position they are in, they are just trying to cover the perimeter. in s.w.a.t. operations, there have been people that have escaped from a barricaded situation. the s.w.a.t. team has a very tight perimeter. you can't let anybody escape, but people have in the past and slipped out of a basement, or side window, or come up somewhere nobody knew they would come up. so, they are trying to keep a tight eye on everything from the top. i think more importantly at the moment, alex, s.w.a.t. has moved the armored vehicle right to the front of the dwelling. it has pulled up in the last few minutes.

you can see -- see it now, and a s.w.a.t. operator has come out of the top hatch. you saw him at the top hatch with his rifle a few minutes ago and they pulled right up to the top of the dwelling. that hatch, they can use to cover the movement of a s.w.a.t. officer. you see right there, an officer out of the top of the hatch. that is the place from which they deployed gas, often. he can shoot gas through the windows of the house from right there. they have penetrator rounds, too, that can shoot right through that have gas in them. or, they could just be covering the movement of s.w.a.t. operators who may be laying cameras or audio listening devices. >> hey, jim, let me ask you -- >> or, they may be preparing a surrender. >> jim, can you see what they are looking at right now, to the left of the screen? is that the s.w.a.t. car that is kind of -- that has been pulled up there? it has sort of an army green color, it is not dark-colored.

would that drone be able to communicate with anyone who is inside that car? it looks like an armored vehicle, certainly. >> yes, that is called a bearkat. it is a standard police s.w.a.t. armored vehicle that is used all across north america. we have them in atf, fbi has them, all of the major state police have them. they have a couple of models, that is a smaller one, they have a larger one called the bear, this is the bearkat. it is very maneuverable, it has ballistic attention, two back doors on the back where operators can deploy, they can get out that way. they can put s.w.a.t. guys in there. it has a gas turbine on the top. this is not a military vehicle. it was not manufactured to be an offensive military vehicle. it basically is offered defense. the top hatch is basically, you know, mainly to deploy teargas

or cover operators. of course, you can shoot from there if there is a shootout and you are protected by that strong armor on that hatch. but, the fact that the commanders moved that up, they are tightening up. they are tightening up, and they are going to do something. what they could do inside, is they could reach the door physically with a ram or an explosive entry, or awol, and send a robot in. or, they could start deploying gas, from that vehicle, or inside, and trying to force him out. of course, before that, they are trying to find out if he is alive. did he already kill himself? is he laying there in mobile? with all of the cautions that rob rightly said earlier, you have to make sure that he is not faking. but, they have the methods to do that, they are prepared to do that. from what we can see here, this is textbook operational, tactical decision-making by an on scene tactical commander, working with his negotiators, deploying his forces correctly.

he has evacuated anyone in danger. right now, the key is, can you save andre's life before he kills anybody else or hurts any officers? your comment, just to close, alex, just to close your comment earlier, you were worried about the ar 15's on the s.w.a.t. officers. that is true, but he is not going to be anywhere near as good a shot as all of these tactical operators are. these guys are expert shots, every last one of them. they train constantly. there are long rifle teams up on the roofs and around. if he comes out and puts a shoulder weapon up, he is going to be dead right away. so, they are such a trained, tactical force that he is going to lose in the long run. >> i appreciate that. but, rob put out a scenario that that type of a weapon -- as you know, jim -- it has the strength to puncture and get through a floor. let's say he is in a basement.

we saw those s.w.a.t. team members going in on what appears to be the second floor. there might be a basement underneath it. there aren't necessarily windows to it, at least from our vantage point. that is what worried me, if he is in a basement and they are on the first floor, that he could shoot up, if he is still alive with that kind of weapon, and get someone crossing the floor. rob made the good point, though, that they are going to be careful if they believe he is hold up in a basement and not crossing an area that would be on top of a basement for exactly that reason. still, it is a pretty dangerous time for those guys inside that house. jim, stay with us. rob d'amico, stay with us, as well. we are going to take one more quick, short break right here on msnbc. we are going to be right back. starting within 5 minutes, i noticed my lung function improved. it helped improve my symptoms, and breztri was even proven to reduce flare-ups, including those that could send me to the hospital.

so now i look forward to more good days. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. can't afford your medication? astrazeneca may be able to help. ask your doctor about breztri. [stomach growling] it's nothing... sounds like something. ♪when you have nausea, heartburn, indigestion♪ ♪upset stomach, diarrhea♪ pepto bismol coats and soothes for fast relief when you need it most.

with nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. (man) excuse me, would you mind taking a picture of us? nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. (tony) oh, no problem. (man) thanks. (tony) yes, problem. you need verizon. get the new iphone 15 pro with tons of storage. so you can take all the pics! (vo) trade-in any iphone in any condition and get a new iphone 15 pro and an ipad and apple watch se all on us. only on verizon. forcibly broke into the residence after which he shot and killed his 52-year-old stepmother, karen gordon, and his 13-year-old sister, kara gordon. they lived at the residence. there were three other individuals at the residence, including a minor inside the

home, who were able to hide and avoid being shot by gordon. at approximately 9:01 a.m., gordon drove to the unit block of edgewood lane, levittown, where he forcibly broke into a residence after which he shot and killed 25-year-old taylor daniel, with whom he has two children. >> that was the district attorney there, of bucks county, pennsylvania, outlining the alleged crimes of 26-year- old andre gordon who we believe to be holed up in a home. we have been watching very, very closely in the middle of trenton, new jersey on phillips avenue. as we wrap up our coverage and hand it over to the next anchor coming up, everybody, just want to really quickly have george solis. let me know, george, have you seen any movement at all, heard anything at all? there has nothing that you have been able to report, so give it to me really quick. any updates? >> reporter: bucks county officials putting out a new

release that this all began this morning in trenton, it appears that the suspect carjacked to somebody in trenton before unleashing all of that chaos in neighboring bucks county. authorities tell me here that it doesn't appear anyone is left in that home. they are saying he is homeless, so the connection of that home to the suspect remains a bit unclear, but they do believe he is somewhere inside of this home, presumably alive and they are working very hard to bring this to a peaceful resolution. we are hearing from trenton police, they are not providing any updates until they have a resolution to this one way or the other. >> understandably so. >> reporter: from what i can understand, there are still a number of people waiting to see how this all unfolds. >> we can see that, george, perhaps some critical information, he may have carjacked a car to get to that location to commit those three killings earlier. that may be what happened there. very quickly to you, jim kavanaugh and rob d'amico, but we are up against it, with regard to the drone, how much information do you think that drone, rob, will be able to

provide to the s.w.a.t. team members inside that house right now? >> i think it is providing from that vantage point, overall. all of those video feeds from the drones are going down to the s.w.a.t. team leaders. depending on how big their budget is, you can get it so you have an armband that shows you a drone feed on your arm. there is definitely one in the bearcat. everyone can see that, especially the command post has an overall picture that they are seeing. it is probably not looking at a tactical situation, like through a window, or something. >> okay, rob d'amico, i want to thank you so much for staying with us for about two hours now. jim kavanaugh, as well. we are going to hand off this hour. i will hand off to my colleague, jonathan caper. he will pick up this breaking coverage on msnbc at the top of the hour. i will see you tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. eastern for more news. re news.

marlo thomas: my father founded saint jude children's research hospital because he believed no child should die in the dawn of life. in 1984, a patient named stacy arrived, and it began her family's touching story that is still going on today.

vicki: childhood cancer, it's just hard. stacey passed on christmas day of 1986. there is no pain like losing a child, but saint jude gave us more years to love on her each day. marlo thomas: you can join the battle to save lives. for just $19 a month, you'll help us continue the lifesaving research and treatment these kids need now and in the future. jessica: i remember as a child, walking the halls of saint jude, and watching my sister fight for her life. we never imagined that we would come back. and then my son charlie was diagnosed with ewing's sarcoma. vicki: i'm thinking, we already had a catastrophic disease in our family. not my grandson too. marlo thomas: st. jude has helped push the overall childhood cancer survival rate from 20% when it opened to 80% today. join with your credit or debit card for only $19 a month, and we'll send you this saint jude

t-shirt that you can proudly wear to show your support. jessica: for anybody that would give, the money is going towards research, and you are the reason my child is here today. charlie: i was declared-- this will be two years cancer free. but there's thousands and thousands of kids who need help. saint jude, how many lives they do save is just so many. marlo thomas: charlie's progress warms my heart, but memories of little angels like stacy are why we need your help. please become a saint jude partner in hope right now. [music playing] business. it's not a nine-to-five proposition. it's all day and into the night. it's all the things that keep this world turning. the go-tos that keep us going. the places we cheer. and check in. they all choose the advanced network solutions and round the clock partnership from comcast business.

see why comcast business powers more small businesses than anyone else. get started for $49.99 a month plus ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. don't wait- call today. i am in washington, d.c. covering our breaking news coverage out of trenton, new jersey.