. this is the weekend. follow the show on the weekend msnbc. we will see you back your bright and early tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. eastern. we are joined by former trump impeachment manager, delegate stacey plaskett from the u.s. virgin islands and talk about another government deadline friday and the republicans hopeless investigation into hunter biden. in the meantime, take it away. i.

>> you look like you are about to start the 11:00 a.m. shift at the bank of the weekend. >> i'm loving them. i'm loving them. >> you guys have a great rest of your day and i will see you tomorrow. a very good morning to you, it is saturday, march 16th, and we begin today with big decisions and more delays all revolving around donald trump's litany of legal troubles and the future of american democracy. let's start in georgia, where nathan wade has resigned from his role as special prosecutor in the racketeering case against the former president, donald trump, and multiple co- defendants over their efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election. that came shortly after the judge overseeing the proceedings, scott mcafee,

ruled that before county district attorney, this woman, fani willis , should not be disqualified from trying the case as a result of her romantic relationship with nathan wade, which judge mcafee wrote caused no quote actual conflict in terms of the prosecution of the case, but which did present a tremendous lapse in judgment,". judge mcafee said a major condition on willis and her office remaining on the case. special prosecutor nathan wade must go. otherwise, judge mcafee wrote, the appearance of impropriety will remain, which some observers, outside observers note contained a jury pool. the quick resolution is important because it means that the case could still potentially be tried before the november election. had willis been disqualified outright and removed from the case, her team would have been, as well, and a different prosecutor would have had to

take over, almost certainly leading to a trial delay given the amount of time and work from willis in her office over the last two years. judge mcafee's ruling came days after he dismissed six of the accounts in the indictment, three of which were against trump. the others involved some of his co-defendants. trump still faces 10 counts in the case. however, in judge mcafee's words, those dismissals were not due to the prosecution's failure to allege sufficient conduct of the defendant, in fact, it is alleged in abundance. but because the legal language used in the indictment was too generic and not specific enough. and judge mcafee said the prosecutors could refile those counts. meanwhile, the former president was in court in person in florida, relating to special counsel jack smith's investigation into trump taking scores of classified documents with him to mar-a-lago when he left office. trump's team argued to judge eileen cannon that she should dismiss the entire federal case

on the grounds of the presidential records act, claiming the classified documents that he took with him were personal and thus excluded from the act requirements. we, of course, await judge cannon's decisions on that one. but although during the hearing she decided to reject trump's team's arguments that the case should be dismissed on the grounds of the espionage act. that trial is currently set to start in late may. we will see if that happens. about 1000 miles up the coast in new york, the stormy daniels hush money trial was supposed to start in just over a week. but the judge in that case as agreed to a 30 day delay and left open the possibility that that trial could be delayed even longer. that situation is sort of unraveled in recent days. spite making what it says was a request a year ago, manhattan d.a.s office alvin bragg's office only recently received more than 100,000 pages of documents from the southern

district of new york. that is part of the department of justice. from their separate investigation into michael: and the stormy daniels payments from several years ago. on wednesday, the manhattan d.a.s office received 31,000 pages of documents said to relate to the subject matter of this case, and yesterday the d.a.s office received the last tranche, a batch of 15,000 documents that they say are largely irrelevant to the current case. the d.a.s office has subsequently turned over the documents to trump's team, and that is what has caused this delay. all the while, hanging over everything, we await the supreme court's decision on trump's claims of absolute presidential immunity, which could make everything moot. we are set to hear oral arguments on that next month. joining me now is amy lee copeland, a federal criminal defense and appellate attorney and former prosecutor for the subject district of georgia. also joining me is barbara mcquaid, district attorney for

michigan, and author of the new and important book attack from within, how this information is sabotaging america. welcome to both of you, thank you for being with us. let's start in georgia with the numerous developments. nothing binary about this discussion, this decision from judge scott mcafee. generally speaking, is more of a win for fani willis then not, because she gets to stay on the case and continue to prosecute the case. but he took a lot of stabs at her and giving her that win. >> he sure did. good morning. it is tattered but at least it is still flying. she took a lot of punches to the gut in that order, but she can remain on the case. as you noted, he gave her a choice, but it wasn't much of one. either you and your whole office go or nathan wade goes. so mr. wade resigned on friday afternoon and the d hey has excepted the resignation.

i anticipate that she is simply going to roll up her sleeves and keep moving. she has appeared in this court many times, and from this judge, who also used to work with her in the fulton county d.a. office. i have no doubt that she is going to shake it off and get back to work. >> barbara, let's talk about what the judge said. there was no actual conflict of interest, but there was the appearance of a conflict of interest with may continue. that seemed a little like having his cake and eating it too. he was there to make a determination that there wasn't, and he said that there wasn't. so how do you read what he said and what had happened as a result, nathan wade resigning? >> i think he overreaches here. he makes the legal conclusion that there is no actual conflict of interest, and he doesn't even say it is an apparent conflict of interest. he says it is an appearance of impropriety. he does not make any findings about that, but i think he overreaches by giving her this ultimatum. either you are off the case and your whole office, or nathan wade is not the case. i think she should have removed nathan wade from this case a long time ago because of the distraction that he was

creating here. but there is a little bit of jim coming saying i am not recommending any charges against hillary clinton, but by the way, let me tell you how bad she is. i think he kind of goes out of his way to make some gratuitous remarks that will taint her reputation and undermine some of her credibility in this case. i don't think he needed to do that, i don't think you should've done that. but nonetheless, i think you wanted to wag his finger a little bit. certainly fani willis made a tremendous lapse in judgment , as the judge says here. but that conflict is with her office, as a manager. it has no bearing whatsoever on the fair trial rights of the defendants. and i think for people who don't follow these things closely, or don't understand the law completely, it is going to create this appearance that somehow this prosecution was tainted. >> so this is the important part, amy lee. how does the taint affect the prosecution of this case? because the things that were alleged between fani willis and nathan wade, as barbara said, have nothing to do with the case itself . but there are two

things at play. one, she is an elected district attorney, which means she faces election in november, and one does not know whether this case will be concluded by then or not. and two, how does a jury deal with this? they will obviously be instructed by the judge not to consider these matters, but it is kind one of those weird things. what you tell somebody not to think about something, that's all they can see. >> that's right. let me just mention something. this is a nonpartisan d.a. race. we are going to have answer a lot earlier about what our jury pool things about her. this is, of course, a local d.a. prosecuting a crime she thinks occurred in her county. the nonpartisan race for d.a. is actually in may, so she will have a fairly quick answer about how her jury pool things about her. there are two challengers, again, although it is nonpartisan, i think one identifies as democratic and the other identifies, self identifies as a maga attorney on her social media account.

if she fails to get 30% of the vote there will be a runoff in june. this would come up and more dire, i expect would be limited if people have a bad feeling about her or a bad opinion of her because of this. we don't know when that is going to happen during jury selection. we don't know when the case is going to be tried. and the judge did note that that might be far down the road. no matter what, though, this is going to be a tough jury to select. because the former president is such a polarizing figure. this is just another thing that the jurors are going to have to be asked about and the judge will have to sort out. >> barbara, can we talk about the manhattan d.a. case? what's going on there? there are a lot of documents, and i think for those of you you who don't follow it as closely, we have to remember the documents were asked for by the manhattan d.a. , which is prosecuting this case. they were requested from the department of justice, so there are three parties involved in this document discovery right now. but it seems to have had the effect of delaying the case, which was supposed to start on march 25th. >> yes.

that's right. i really put the fault at the defense here. trump and his team. they did not ask for this document until january, so it turns out that there are more than 100,000 pages total between a trench of 70,000, 30,000, and 15,000. more than 100,000. so it took the southern district of new york until now to review, sort, and provide those documents. so, when a defendant is determined to delay a case they can be very successful. i certainly saw this as a prosecutor. i often said trial dates are made to be moved, and i think we see trial dates, we think oh, good, this trial is going to go on march 25th. as a prosecutor, i saw this again and again. and it is because the judge wants to make sure that the defendant truly has adequate time to prepare. if they are receiving 100,000 documents now in the middle of march, they can't possibly review all of these in time for a trial on march 25th. and to avoid harming the fair trial rights of the defendant, creating an issue for appeal, a

judge is usually pretty accommodating when a defendant wants more time. but if the trump team really one of these records in time for a march 25th trial date, they should've been asking for the many months ago and nine january. >> i want ask you one other thing about the georgia case. the judge dismissed a number of the counts. six counts. three of them against donald trump, three against some co- defendants. some people read into that. but it seems like it was just sort of technical. he thought they were a bit broad. >> that's right. and he made clear to establish a number of things in the order. number one, the big count of the d.a. has brought remains unscathed. number two, the d.a. can remedy this by going back and asking a grand jury to recharge these particular counts. and number three, if the d.a. wanted to immediately appeal his order, he would likely get permission. it is notable, because in the disqualification order that resulted in his qualification, he did not make a similar provision about an immediate appeal. so that is good news for the d.a., that he is at least not

signaling it in order, that this case will not be signified for immediate appeal and it will continue forward. >> i appreciated, there was a lot of stuff to get to and a lot of granularity that those with this without legal training grateful to understand. i'm grateful to both of you this morning. barbara, i'm going to ask you to stick around because i want to dig into your important new book, attack from within, how disinformation is sabotaging america. plus, still to come, the colorblindness trap. pulitzer prize journalist nicole hannah jones investigated a 50 year campaign to reverse racial progress by co-opting the very language used by the civil rights movement in the fight for equality. nicole hannah jones joins me to discuss. and i will talk to evgenia kara- murza , the wife of vladimir

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on their favorite sport. back with me now is barbara mcquade, a former united states attorney for the district of michigan, and nbc legal analyst, the author of a brand- new book, attack from within, how disinformation is sabotaging america. in the book, she spelled out the way that our country specifically is susceptible to disinformation, and how people in power or those seeking power can manipulate that susceptibility to slowly erode our democracy over time. barbara, it is fantastic. i am still carrying my galley copy around because i am so attached to how accessible and straightforward this book is. i want to bring up something you just said in the previous

segment. you talked about jim, he and hillary clinton's emails. you discussed the ways in which media companies had been implicit in spreading misinformation. in one particular section, use it as an example, the new york times handling of donald trump's claims about hillary clinton's emails during the 2016 election. i'm going to read from the book. quote, according to a study by the columbia journalism review, in six days leading up to the election the times ran 10 front- page stories about clinton's emails, a number equal to the front-page stories it ran about all other campaign policies in the 69 days before the election. now, we know, barbara, that it is not just the new york times that amplified the story. most media companies did. how do we do with this, knowing what we learn from that? how do we deal with not amplifying disinformation that is happening in this election cycle?

>> it is such an important question. of course the media can influence what we all talk about. what we see on the news affects only talk about at the water cooler and many other places. we have struggled with is that the media has not quite figured out how to cover donald trump. certainly there are extremists media outlets that deliberately amplify his lies. we saw the dominion voting systems settlement with fox news for $770 million for airing false claims about a stolen election. but i think even media acting in good faith can sometimes get trapped in this cycle of repeating false claims or inaccurate claims, misleading claims or hateful claims, just because that is what they have done throughout their history, throughout the careers. media people have been trained to present both sides of an issue, and if an issue is controversial, to present that.

i think in the 2016 election, the media probably was lapping up too much of donald trump's outrageous comments and amplifying them. and i think now some have really struggled and said maybe we should just ignore him and not give him a megaphone. and that is not a perfect solution either, because i think he will need to know what someone is saying to be able to debunk those claims. i think maybe the better course is to ensure that there is fact checking in real time, which is not an easy thing to do. but to share with the public what is being said, but also make sure they are getting accurate information so that they are not overwhelmed by falsehoods and other not sure what to believe. when we become too exhausted with taxes only disengage from politics. that is the anathema to democracy. >> you and i were together in philadelphia and we had a right talk with the audience at the free library about the book. i was talking to people, while you are signing books afterwards, and i said this is a perfect book to give to

somebody with whom you are arguing about politics or what is going on. because it is to be accessible. it is almost like a handbook for dealing with disinformation. you have a very important goal here, and that is you are worried that our democracy can morph into an autocracy. and you do think we all have a responsibility to recognize this and do something about it. >> yes. i wrote this book because i want to spark a national conversation about truth. regardless of who you want to vote for, or what your policy preferences are, that is fine. that is healthy in a democracy. but we have to have a commitment to fax into truth. and i hope that the book will expose to people and open peoples eyes to some of the tactics that are being used against us. it is the same tactics that have been used throughout history by authoritarians. it is just that the method has become so much more effective through social media. but it is my hope that people will understand that there are people out there who are deliberately trafficking in lies in an effort to manipulate the public.

and i hope that we can see these things, identify them, and to feed them together. the ask in the book is that we need to choose truth over tribe . >> it is a remarkable and important book, and i thank you for taking the time, not just to write it, but that is something a professor and former prosecutor like you can do, but to make it accessible to the rest of us in such an important time. barbara mcquade is a former united states attorney and msnbc legal analyst, and the author of the new important book attack from within, how disinformation is sabotaging america. up next, how conservatives have co-opted the civil rights movements own language to undermine racial progress in america. the singular nicole hannah jones joined me next.

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there's nothing better than a subway series footlong. except when you add an all new footlong sidekick. like the philly with a new $2 footlong churro. sometimes the sidekick is the main event. you would say that. every epic footlong deserves the perfect sidekick. ♪3, 4♪ ♪ every epic footlong ♪hey♪ ♪ ♪are you ready for me♪ ♪are you ready♪ ♪are you ready♪ last summer, just months after the supreme court struck down affirmative action, the dean of howard university's medical school received a letter from a conservative

legal group that said in accordance with the supreme court decisions in students for fair admissions inc. , your medical school must immediately cease any and all policies, practices, programs, or procedures that include a racial component. here is a conservative group telling howard university that it may be breaking the law by prioritizing black students in their admission practices. howard university is one of the nation's most well-known historically black colleges and universities. in order to get the full picture, it is important to understand the context and the historical evidence for it. after the civil war, congress passed an act to establish the freedmen's bureau, which sought to provide resources to displaced southerners, including recently freed black americans. now, intrinsic and its foundation was the idea that after the abolition of slavery it was the response ability of congress to right the wrongs of

our nation's ugly past. the freedmen's bureau was intended to address the welfare of lack americans, not based on their race or their skin color, but on their condition. it is very much the language of reparations. one senator urged in 1866 that the people of the southern states should be as zealous and active in the passage of laws and the inauguration of measures to elevate, develop, and improve the negro as they had been to enslave and degrade him. fast forward 100 years, through a century of segregation, persecution, and systemic oppression. the civil rights movement brought with it progressive activists who promoted the idea that in order to truly achieve unequal and colorblind society we must adopt race conscious policies to address the centuries of oppression, and the disadvantage is that black folks continue to face that are baked into our society.

in a commencement speech at howard university in 1965, resident lyndon johnson said this. >> you do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by change and liberate him, bringing up to the starting line of a race, and then say you are free to compete with all the others. and still justly believe that you have been completely fair. this is the next, and the more profound stage of the battle for civil rights. we seek not just freedom, but opportunity. we seek not just legal equity, but human ability. not just equality as a right and a theory, but equality as a fact and equality as a result.

>> then came ronald reagan. and as reagan rose to political prominence throughout the 1970s he introduced into our natural lexicon the idea of quote reverse discrimination. he argued against race conscious policies, against affirmative action, against hiring policies that value diversity. even claiming that these practices were a form of racism. in 1978 the supreme court took up a challenge to affirmative action brought by a white man who didn't get into the medical school of his choice. the court ruled in his favor. in a recent essay for the new york times magazine, nicole hannah jones argues that in this case the court was legally and ideologically severing the link between race and condition. race became nothing more than ancestry, and a collection of superficial physical traits. the 14th amendment was no longer about alleviating the extraordinary repercussions of slavery, but about treating everyone the same regardless of

their skin color, history, or present condition. hannah jones argues that for more than 50 years there is been an organized effort to stall and even undo civil rights efforts to advance racial progress. the end of affirmative action is another symptom of that backlash against racial progress. for more on this, i am joined by nicole hannah jones herself. she is a pulitzer prize-winning investigative reporter of the new york times magazine. she is the creator of the 1619 project. she is the founding director of the center for journalism and democracy at howard university, and is the schools night chair in race and journalism. good to see you, thank you for being with us. we have tried to lay out some of this. it is a very, very long and well-written essay, but in it you layout the question that is central to our nation's handling of race and repair. you write how does a white majority nation which for nearly its entire history wielded race conscious policies and laws that oppressed and

excluded black americans create a society in which race no longer matters? do we ignore race in order to eliminate its power? or do we consciously use race to undo its harms? i will ask you to say more on that. >> yes, for one, thank you so much for that introduction and for having me on the show. so, i think what i am trying to get at in that sentence is the fundamental tension that we have in america, in a society that, as i said, had 250 years of racial slavery where people who were designated as black because they had some semblance of african ancestry were enslaved and cleavable. and we followed that by 100 years of racial apartheid, where again, people who are deemed to have any african ancestry whatsoever where deemed as not having the same legal rights and citizenship as other americans. so, now with the civil rights movement, of course, we have

this idea of the constitution is colorblind. and that was an idea put forth by progressives to say the constitution doesn't allow you to treat citizens differently in a harmful way based on race. but with the understanding that if you separated, segregated, subordinated a race of people for 350 years and used race to do that, that you can't just simply one day say okay, race doesn't matter. you actually have to counterbalance with race conscious policies to bring black people up, a long history of race conscious policies used to hold black people down. >> go ahead. >> you've laid out a thesis, and what you have talked about, as well, and i will read this from the essay. you have discussed the conservative groups have spent the nine months since the affirmative-action ruling

launching an assault on programs designed to explicitly address racial inequality across american life. they filed a flurry of legal challenges and threatened lawsuits against race conscious programs outside the realm of education, including diversity fellowships at law firms, a federal program to aid disadvantage small businesses, and a program to keep black women from dying in childbirth. these conservative groups whose names often evoke fairness and freedom of rights are using civil rights law to claim that the constitution requires colorblindness, and that efforts targeted at ameliorating the suffering of descendents of slavery illegally discriminate against white people. as you just mentioned, they are reversing the paradigm to, again, favor white people in america. >> absolutely. and we begin to see this co- opting of the language of colorblindness, the rhetoric of colorblindness, really right at the moment that black people gained their full civil rights in the late 1960s. so, the same people who said that race should matter in

everything, where you can live, where you can go to school, what jobs you can have, once you can no longer use race in a harmful way, people say actually, we can't use race to help black people either. and began to take on his leg which of colorblindness, for instance, in the 1964 civil rights act. the 14th minute. both laws that were passed to eliminate the subordination of black americans. they begin to use those laws against programs that are trying to bring black americans into the mainstream. and kind of its most perverse manifestation is that letter to howard university that you open with. because what they are saying is not only are we saying the constitution prohibits predominantly white organizations from using race to help black people, but we are now going to prohibit black people from helping themselves. and that is a very wondrous place for us to be and in america. >> obviously the work you do, nicole, is to write these things for the rest of us to read and hopefully discuss. but this sounds like something

that requires an urgent remedy. and the remedy would start with most americans understanding what you have laid out here. that this is a concerted, calculated, long-term effort to undo the progress that black people have made in this country. and that society has made. what is the answer look like? what does success look like and pushing back on this? >> that is likely right. this is why i wanted to write this piece. we now recognize that there was a 50 year, strategic, long game effort to overturn dobbs. we have suddenly seen half of our population was a constitutional right that we once had. i think we have largely failed to see that there was a parallel rasul strategy occurring at the same time, to really eliminate any remedies to help like americans overcome the legacy of slavery. so, it is hard to come up with a remedy when you have a supreme court that is not actually following president, that is not that concerned with what is the context of the 14th amendment and the history of the 14th amendment.

what i am arguing is that we have to go back to what we did during the freedmen's bureau. the freedmen's bureau policies were not just about race, they were about alleviating the condition of people whose lineage meant their ancestors had been enslaved or they had been enslaved. and i think we have to go back to something like that. affirmative action originally was not this kind of catchall diversity program. as conceived, it was a program to help people whose ancestors had been enslaved common to all of the areas of american life where they had been excluded. so, i am arguing that we change our lexicon, that we focus on building programs for descendents of slavery, lineage- based programs. but also, that we just wake up and understand that if we maintain this level of racial inequality, it actually is impossible to do so and maintain our democracy at the same time. there is a reason we see all of this anti-democratic policies and anti-democratic actions happening at a time of great racial polarization. racial inequality requires constant suppression.

we cannot have a society where black americans are not allowed to move forward and to overcome , and also have our democracy at the same time. >> nicole, thank you, as always, for being with us. and thank you for this wonderful lesson. nicole hannah jones is a pulitzer prize investigative reporter for the new york times magazine, a cocreator of the 6019 project, and the founding director of the center for journalism and democracy. at howard university. we always appreciate your time. coming up, voting is underway in russia, but this presidential election is neither free nor fair. and the outcome is a foregone conclusion. it will end in yet another victory for president vladimir putin, following a brutal crackdown on dissent in russia. i will speak to evgenia kara- murza, wife of jailed incident vladimir kara-murza about the situation inside russia, and why it is so important to the world outright reject's so- called victory.

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i want to remind you that if you like what you see on the program, you can now find all your favorite segments, stories, and interviews on youtube. had to msnbc.com/allie. you can find meetings with lawmakers enter important economic updates all in one place. please check it out. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost.

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i deserve to live. those powerful words were shared by my next guest in a text message to an american journalist last november. kamal and his family had completed a dangerous journey on foot from gaza, braving constant bombardment and gunfire to find refuge in the southern gaza city. joining kamal were his family

and siblings, who would eventually reunite with his sister, a remarkable young woman and entrepreneur whom i had the privilege of meeting while on assignment inside the gaza strip in 2019. in the midst of the war's dehumanizing chaos, gaza's population has been reduced to most people to mere statistics. but before the war, it boasted a wealth of highly educated individuals and changemakers. together they pioneered a groundbreaking solar company called son box. it provided gazans with the means to power the small household appliances during the daily blackouts that have occurred there long before the. offering some semblance of normalcy in an otherwise difficult existence. back when i met her in 2019, she told me why she decided to found this company and what success looks like her. >> this is how many people would have access. this is how we measure our impact.

of course we employ people, we hire people. the average age of our companies is 24. but success for our company is allowing more people to get electricity. >> what is the electricity problem here, for people who don't know? >> gaza since 2006 has been suffering from a political crisis, and we enjoy only 3-6 hours of electricity. by saying enjoying, i am sarcastic. but for someone like me, i grew up in this blockade. and it is almost more than half my age. i used to study all my college life on a candle. and my parents were freaking out every day, like you might be sleeping and is could burn the whole room. and that is about, because many families lost their kids in their houses because of candles. it is a passion for me, i wanted to do something to solve this issue. >> so, kids in gaza grow up with this idea that there is

electricity for a short amount of time. so what happened? is it a crazy amount of time, everybody plugs everything in and charges everything in the time you have electricity? >> yes. so i wake up in the morning, i have to plan for having to shower in advance. other than that, i will not find hot water. i have a friend who is gazan, but she was born in the states. she came to visit her family, and the first message they sent me was there is no hot water. this is a fact. i used to wake up in the morning like that i charge my phone last night? we have to charge it at work. it becomes part of our life. people start to adapt to life around it. but this is not the right thing to do. people should keep having for fighting 24 hours. some people feel happy when they have 8 to 10 hours of electricity a day, but that should not make them happy. what should make them happy is having 24 hours, because this is the right.

>> that office does not exist anymore. since the war erupted on october 7th, they have lost everything. their business, their livelihoods, and members of their family. miraculously, some of the family recently made it to the united states where they aspire to rebuild their lives and contribute their remarkable skills to the eventual reconstruction of gaza. after a short break they will join me. they are here already in studio to discuss their journey and the next phase of their lives. don't go anywhere. you need verizon. trade-in that old thing and get a new iphone 15 pro with tons of storage. so you can take all the pics! so many selfies. a preposterous amount of pano! that means panoramic. and as many portraits of me as your heart desires. (woman) how about none? (boy) none. (man) yea none feels right. (vo) trade-in any iphone in any condition and get a new iphone 15 pro and an ipad and apple watch se all on us. only on verizon. get help reaching your goals with j.p. morgan wealth plan, a digital money coach in the chase mobile® app.

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now, i work at comcast as part of the team that created our ai highlights technology, which uses ai to detect the major plays in a sports game. giving millions of fans, like my dad and me, new ways of catching up on their favorite sport. we had some good reunions in my day, but this is going to be one of the best. join me now, the founder and ceo of son box, a solar panel business based in gaza. they recently fled gaza. it is very good to have you

both here, it is great to see you again, my friend. you and i have spoken before, but it is good to see you in real life. you really struggled to get out of gaza. you and your family. tell us a little bit about that. >> thank you so much for having us today, i am really happy to share the story. i am happy and sad at the same time. it was a miracle to leave gaza city and head to the south during an active battle. we had to walk for 20 miles to get to safety. but we made it. it was terrible, it was somehow , you know, nobody can believe it. but we had to do it, because we ran out of water and out of food for eight days. we had almost 35 people locked in the basement while the battle was outside. we had no choice. luckily, my sister and i were able to coordinate for our passage. it was terrible. it wasn't safe at all. multiple shots had been fired towards us. but we are so lucky that we made it. nobody can actually do it now in gaza, but a few days after we left, we were actually able

to leave gaza. there was also a miracle. thousands of people are in gaza that can't leave, and people are forced to pay huge amounts of money in order to leave. we are so lucky. i believe that god gave us another chance to live. >> what is the new chance to live for you and your family? >> the new chance is to be in a secure place. to get them out safely, complete physically. i was so worried that if something happens for them, there are no hospitals, no clinics, nothing. and we would lose someone if he gets injured for something that does not really risk their lives. for me, if kamal says this is something abnormal, you know the movie mission impossible? it was an impossible mission to get them out. i was not sleeping for more than 50 days, trying to talk to hundreds of people. just asking them what can i do?

how can i help them get out of gaza? because this is the only asset we have. i know we lost everything, and the only remaining was my family. my parents and my siblings. i felt a lot of response ability on my shoulders as i was the only one who was outside of gaza. and i just remember spending all the time. i was in my first trimester of pregnancy. spending all the time not eating, doing nothing, just talking to people and trying to help them get out. and i think, this is not only my mission. i think everyone outside is trying to help the families get out of gaza. because it is a war, you know? >> it is been tough for a long time in gaza. you wrote a piece right after you got out in which you continue to express hope, not just for the end of the war, but for more than that. for a peaceful solution. for peaceful coexistence between palestinians and israelis. do you still hold that view, given that 30,000 people are now dead? and it doesn't look like even a cease-fire is on

the horizon. >> thank you for bringing this up, i did not write that when i left. i was writing it in the battle. when i was in the basement and there was a battle outside, i was writing that piece. i truly believe in it. >> and you still do? >> i do believe in it. despite all that is happening, i still believe that there is a chance where everyone can coexist. a really difficult time. but at the same time, when it is getting more aggressive and more casualties are happening, it is getting to the impossible milestone. because people lost faith. and also, we can't really see a clear and obvious leadership who are actually willing to piece. there are people in gaza who still believe in it, and people in israel, as well. but it is just getting more impossible. we hear a lot of horrible things coming from both sides. every side is more aggressive towards the other side, and also, just destroying every piece of hope.

we are just so surprised and so shocked that piece is sort of shattered and destroyed. >> are questions people always ask, what leadership look like? you and i discussed this in 2019. and i thought back then, you were younger, but i thought this was a woman who could be in the leadership of the sort of country. i worry about the fact that people like you and people like you have left now. you don't even have a place to go back to if you felt like going back home and i don't know whether you feel like going back. what does the future of gaza and the future of palestine look like when people see less and less opportunity and they have to look to other shores? >> first of all, we left, we have no place to return, and we have no place to go. so, when a war happens, usually some companies open the doors and welcome people. we have no place to go as palestinians. once we leave to egypt we have 72 hours and we have to leave the country. so imagine. and then if you stay legally,

it is so hard to find a job or get income. so people who left, most of them young people like us who just wanted to survive. if you ask me now the question, do you want to return? yes. i want to return. i want to build my country. when i came to the u.s. in 2017 i was offered to stay and i said no. i started a business to serve my country. i will go back to my country. now i have my green card. i was granted the green card because the u.s. that welcome, you have a talent, you can work here. but i work here for the people back there. my mission in life is to help build my country. i have no place to belong except palestinian. i hope to be a u.s. citizen one day, to help me, again, build back my country of palestine. all the young people who left gaza are ready to go back. and i am proud to speak on their behalf. if there is a state, if there is a place for them to speak

up, if there is security, if there is a guarantee that those people won't be killed again, won't be threatened again, i am happy to build another office to produce new bricks with my bricks. but give me a guarantee that this will be destroyed within one or two years. i have no guarantee. so, the leadership should come from the people to the people. it should come from the young people like us. we have so many talented young people who left the country and need to come back, but they don't have the access for that. and i am one of them. >> may that be built. may we see people like you. and you are not unusual, that is the funny part. my viewers may say you cherry pick two palestinians who are well-educated and have this worldview, but in fact, it is very common in gaza to have people who are very, very highly educated and motivated, people with your kind of ideas in america would be millionaires because of these

entrepreneurial ideas. so we will get you there and we will get you back, hopefully the next time we meet will be back in gaza. in front of your shop or insider shop. good to see you both, thank you for taking time to be with us. entrepreneurs from gaza. straight ahead, decisions and delays from florida, georgia, to new york. we will travel the i-95 corridor to cover all the important new developments and trends litany of legal troubles. another hour of velshi it begins now . 25th. the judge left open the possibility the trial could be delayed even longer. that situation has unraveled in recent days. the d.a.s office only