that, that he has to claim what he said was fake. that's kind of the biggest tell of all. >> do you feel like, brian, there is a way to put the tooth paste back into the tube? can you rebuild trust in the 21st century? i ask that as someone genuinely hopeful about integrity? >> i think it is going to take a lot of digital media literacy, which i don't know we have right now, which is clear that we don't have right now. but it is also the reason i think that what you do is so important, what i try to do on a daily basis is so important. and that's to kind of arm people with accurate information. just having this segment right here where you let them know what's happening is a testament to that. it kind of shows why it is so important. it arms people with the knowledge that this kind of stuff is happening. all you can do is just continuously, you know, pelt people with the truth over and over and over again. hopefully it has something of

an impact. but like i said earlier, it will take a lot of digital media literacy that we don't have. >> brian, it's great to see you. thanks for joining the show tonight. >> thanks. that is our show for this evening. it's time for last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, alex. and we have a democratic nominee, joe biden has officially made it. so we're going to be covering only of that and also a lot of defended trump coverage to get to. >> it is a big night. the general election is on. have a good show, lawrence. >> it is. thanks, alex. thank you. well, it's not a good day for the trump fanatics on the republican controlled house judiciary committee. it was not a great day for their star witness. republican former u.s. attorney robert hur was appointed to his u.s. attorney by donald trump, conducted the investigation of joe biden's possession of classified material after joe

biden left the vice presidency. that investigation found joe biden did not commit any crimes at all. we learned today in the hearing robert hur's report about joe biden was not accurate. in his description of joe biden. as an elderly man with unusual memory problems. and you'll remember that bit was the big news of that report. the news that was heard around the world about that report, and it is false. today merrick garland released the full transcript of president biden's five hours of under oath questioning by robert hur. in his report robert hur claimed that president biden could not remember when his son died. that is not true. in the transcript, president biden says what month did beau die? oh my god, may 30. and then someone else in the

room with the president says 2015, and president biden says it was 2015. and it is not easy to understand joe biden's anger about robert hur's false characterization of the president's memory of that tragic day. they found something else in the transcript released today of joe biden's testimony about joe biden's memory that robert hur deliberately did not include in his report describing the president's memory. >> i now want to turn you to the transcript and day one, page 47. you said to president biden, you have appeared to have a photographic understanding of the house. did you say that to president biden?

>> those words do appear on page 47 of the transcript. >> photographic is what you said, is that right? never appeared in your report though, is that correct? the word photographic? >> that does not appear in my report. >> carson zeroed in on a possible motivation for robert hur to slant his report against joe biden in every way that he could. >> a lot has changed since 2018 for the person who appointed you, former president trump. since you were appointed, he was impeached for leveraging $350 million u.s. taxpayer dollars over ukraine to get dirt on president biden. he was impeached a second time for inciting an insurrection. he was charged for possessing classified documents and obstructing justice. he was charged for paying for

the silence of a porn star. he was charged in georgia for his role in january 6. he was charged in the district of columbia for his role in january 6. and he defrauded new york for his taxes, and he's been judged a rapist. you want to be perceived understandably as credible. and so i want to first see if you will pledge to not accept an appointment from donald trump if he is elected again as president. >> congressman, i don't, i'm not here to testify. >> it seems like an easy answer considering what i just laid out. >> i'm here to talk about the report in the work that went into it. >> but you don't want to be associated with that guy again, do you? >> i'm not here to offer any opinions about what may or may not happen in the future. >> so it is fair to interpret that what you just saw obviously means what may happen

in the future is that robert hur would accept a federal judgeship from the indicted donald trump or serve as the indicted general. republicans on the committee kept trying to suggest robert hur would have recommended criminal charges against joe biden if president biden were just younger. that it was simply joe biden's elderly faulty memory that would make him hard to convict in a courtroom. but the truth of the hur report is that it does not at any point identify a single criminal act that could be prosecuted against anyone at any age. it did not identify a single thing joe biden did that anyone has ever been prosecuted for. and the only classified material that joe biden knew he

possessed was exactly the same material that president ronald reagan kept when he left the presidency and the justice department, at that time believed what president reagan did was perfectly legal and they justified. president ronald reagan kept daily notes during his time in the white house and vice president joe biden kept similar daily notes during his eight years as vice president. those notes would inevitably contain classified information. and those notes were deliberately kept by joe biden following the legal precedent set by ronald reagan and the justice department when ronald reagan deliberately kept those same notes. and so the simple facts of the biden case are there was no criminal prosecution because there was absolutely nothing

that was even close to a criminal act. democrats used the hearing today to remind america what it is like when the possession and handling of classified material is criminal. >> and your investigation, did you find president biden directed his lawyer to lie to the fbi? >> we identified no such evidence. >> did you find president biden told his lawyer to destroy classified documents? >> no. >> did you find biden directed his personal assistant to remove boxes to hide them from the fbi? >> no. >> did you find president biden directed his personal assistance to delete security camera footage after the fbi asked for that footage? >> no. >> did you find president biden showed a classified map related to an ongoing military operation to a campaign aide who did not have clearance? >> no. >> did you find president biden engaged in a conspiracy to obstruct justice? >> no. >> did you find president biden engaged in a scheme to conceal? >> no. >> each activities i just laid

out describes what donald trump did in his willful mishandling of classified information in his efforts to deceive the fbi. >> congressman meddling dean who will join us in a moment forced robert hur to make the case against donald trump by reading what hur's report says about the trump case. >> unlike the evidence involving mr. biden, the allegations set forth in the indictment of mr. trump, if proven, would present serious aggravating facts. >> keep going. >> congresswoman, i'm happy to have you read the report. >> it is your report, so it is more fitting that you read those. >> most noticeably after given multiple choices to return classified documents to avoid prosecution, mr. trump allegedly did the opposite. >> keep going. >> according to the indictment, he not only refused to return the documents for many months, but obstructed justice by enlisting others to destroy evidence and then to lie about it. >> and we have new information

about donald trump's handling of government owned documents and classified documents from the witness who special prosecutor jack smith's indictment identifies as trump employee number five. that employee, ryan butler, said in a cnn interview that he helped trump co-defendant move some of the boxes from florida to new jersey. >> we got to the airport, i ended up loading all the luggage that i had and he had a bunch of boxes. >> you noticed he had boxes? >> oh yeah, they were boxes in the indictment, the white bankers boxes. that's what i remember loading. >> and did you have any idea at the time that there was potentially u.s. national security secrets in those boxes? >> no clue. nope. i had no clue. >> ryan butler explained why he's speaking out now publicly. >> well, i mean, it's been almost a year since fbi agents showed up at my house when my wife was at home.

you know, over the course of the last year, emotionally it's been a roller coaster. a couple weeks ago judge can nan says she is going to release the names of the witnesses. you go from highs and lows in this. and instead of just waiting for it to just come out, i think it's better that i get to at least say what happened than it coming out in the news, people calling me crazy. i would rather just get it out there. >> and brian butler offered this account of donald trump sharing classified information with an australian billionaire. >> i believe it was april of 2021. this was a member, anthony pratt, who he was coming -- he flew in the night before. >> he's an australian billionaire? >> he finishes the meeting with the president and gets in the car, and his chief of staff says how did the meeting go? pratt without saying just says he told me and it would be, you

know, u.s. military classified information of what he told them about russian submarines and u.s. submarines. and that's really all i remember hearing, and i went what? you know, i'm thinking this. i'm in the car of did i just hear that? so it wasn't like oh, the meeting went well. we talked. he went straight to the point. he told me that the u.s. subs and with the russian subs, you know, something that would more than likely in my mind be classified. >> leading off our discussion tonight is dean of pennsylvania and eric swawell. both served as impeachment managers in the second impeachment trial of donald trump. congress member dean, one of the things that strikes me about the hur report that i find so unrelentingly strange, he keeps referring to a

possible presentation of the evidence in this report to a jury, and how a jury might perceive it. when, in fact, there is nothing in the report that could ever possibly be presented to a jury and this notion of how a jury would perceive, you know, biden's memory or his understanding of how he was handling those documents. just could not be more absurd with an evidence base that never comes close to rising to a chargeable offense. >> and that is exactly, lawrence, what he says in his report. it never rises to that level. i'm so pleased to be with you, but also with eric tonight. eric, you and i have been comrades on the judiciary committee for a few years now. i feel lucky to know you. >> same. >> and i'm pleased with what you were able to bring out today in terms of testimony.

in terms of the language of the report, and lawrence, i think you're going to enjoy this, and i bet you paid attention to it. did you notice whenever mr. hur got caught in something, he slipped to passive voice? so for example when eric said to him about photographic memory or whatever the exact word was, he said well that is the language of the report. not his report, not his language. so somebody who pays attention to that kind of thing. but let's remember where this all began. where it began was the very first sentence of the entire more than 200 page report. and this is mr. hur's language. "we conclude that no criminal charges are warranted in this matter." and lawrence, you saw in that report that same statement is paraphrased over and over and over again. sadly i think the report has very little credibility because beyond that the evidence wasn't there. what was mr. hur trying to say?

>> and the use of the word willful, president biden willfully possessed classified, what they called classified documents. it is such a misleading thing for the general public to get only that and not have included in that. the only documents that he willfully possessed that he knew he possessed and deliberately possessed were his own handwritten notes, which is exactly what ronald reagan did with his own handwritten notes. and that was considered when ronald reagan did it by the justice department, to not be criminal, and they made no attempts to even get those notes back from ronald reagan. >> and that is very telling, lawrence. but also when you read the transcript, you see, you know, the president has a clear handle on, you know, what was unaccounted for. and he explains it as his

staff, you know, were largely responsible. he is such a kind person and said i'm not trying to throw the staff under the bus here. i don't want anyone to get in trouble. but my notes were the only ones that i handled. i think this is such a perfect side by side of two people. so put aside what you believe donald trump's intent was to take national security marked materials as you said different than handwritten opponents. and that he possessed. take away what you believe the intent was. you have two individuals that have classified materials at their property. one of them does everything to return the materials, allows the fbi to search their house just to be careful and safe. sits down for five hours of interviews over two days. that's biden. the other person does everything to conceal the possession of those materials, directs others to lie and obstruct about it and still believes that even if he did all of that, that he could do it any way because he believes he's a king. it is just a test of character

in how both individuals handled it. >> and let's listen to the demonstrations of the memories that the democratic side of this hearing was able to put in evidence in the hearing today that they oppose to what the hur report says about biden's memory. let's listen to this. >> your next wife is marla maple? >> right. >> and sitting here today, do you recall what years you were married to ms maples? >> um -- i would have to get the exact dates for you. i can do that. >> you married your current wife in january of 2005? >> i don't know relative to that date. >> i don't know the answer. >> james webb? >> i don't remember the names. i don't remember the names. >> you don't remember saying you have one of the best memories? >> i don't remember that. i remember you telling me, but

i don't remember i said that. >> congressman dean, evidence like that along with the revelations that were the night before, and that cnn interview of mr. butler about loading boxes to get them to new jersey and all the other incriminating information that he revealed that we did not know in that interview. all that coming together. >> and it is very sad that we could be angry and it is really sad that the former president has come out as such, i'm sorry, am i frozen? i'm sorry if i am. and such a person of lacking of any decency. and certainly his memory is

slipping. there are some serious problems. he has been under a 40-count indictment for all the things he did in terms of documents. so the contrast is extraordinarily striking and in his report alone, he, himself, and that is why i asked him to read a part of his report to point out the stark contrast between the two documents and how they handle documents. >> and donald trump cannot tell you when he married any of his wives or how long he was married to any of his wives and how long he's been married to his third and current wife. he doesn't know that. that's not information he knows. and there will never be, you can be absolutely certain that there will never be a headline anywhere about that failure of donald trump's memory? >> and lawrence, that clip he

played that he referred to september 11. and that he would stumble all the time. and the difference between joe biden, even being asked the day after, you know, after the attack about something that would happen years ago and having a clear memory of most things, so clear that they would call it photographic. and donald trump, you know, does he have memory issues, he's dangerous, and he is under indictment, and he's a narcissist. we can't hammer this point home enough for the american people. >> representative dean, thank you for joining us tonight. >> my pleasure. >> thank you. it's good to be with you. coming up tonight, joe biden easily secured enough delegates for the democratic presidential nomination. he did that before donald trump secures the delegates for the republican nomination. simon will join us next.

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nbc news now projects that joe biden is the democratic presumptive nominee for president having secured 2,012 delegates. and tonight in the states of georgia, mississippi, washington, and hawaii on the democratic side. nbc news projects joe biden has won where they currently have 95% of the vote. and mississippi, nbc news projects joe biden has one, and where joe biden has 99% of the vote as of now in mississippi. and on the republican side, nbc news projects donald trump has won georgia where he currently has 84% of the vote. and in mississippi, nbc news projects donald trump has won, where he currently has 92% of

the vote. we are still waiting poll closings in the state of washington and hawaii. joining our discussion now with simon rosenberg, author of chronicles of sub stack." simon, as usual, joe biden wins a higher percentage of democratic votes than donald trump wins of republican votes. what is there to read in tonight's results? >> they were in the general election. i mean here we go, right? we have eight months to go. it will be biden and trump. in every way imaginable, i would much rather be them than us at that point. the country is better off. the democratic party is strong in winning across the country, and they have trump. running for president in our history who is leading the party right now that's broke, it's splintering. we are seeing them out of the house. i mean we are seeing the unprecedented level of turmoil in the republican party, lawrence. you and i have been doing this

for a long time. we've never seen anything as ugly right now. when i put that all together as i said, i would much rather us than them as we head into the general election. >> the biden campaign really went in to high gear as a campaign the day after, which is the most campaign oriented state of the union address that i have ever heard? >> yep. look, the big thing to me that has happened in the last few weeks is that the central arguments that the republicans have been making have all evaporated. the economy is strong, it is not weak. inflation isn't rising, it is down. right? and crime isn't surging across the country. it's plummeting. there isn't a war on energy. we saw more domestic and more domestic oil and renewables produced last year than any year in american history. in some of the other attacks on the border, right? we are the party that wants

order. they are the ones that want chaos and the personal attacks against biden. the stuff that they went after in the crime family and attack and that they learned in that last week. and the republican party, again, in our politics. then finally his age. and we saw that he dismissed the challenges and the concerns about his age and the great speech that he gave last week. and their discussion about their age was actually invented and a lie. to me, i think the biggest thing that has happened, that they lost all of their central arguments against joe biden and the democrats, and what they are left with is the madness of the emperorrer and it won't be enough to beat us in this election. >> and the orange emperorrer, thank you for joining us. >> thanks a lot. scott perry is running for reelection.

kathy hutchinson, the january 6 committee star witness described scott perry this way in an interview with pennsylvania radio station wtif in october of last year. >> i think it is also important for central pennsylvanians to know that scott perry was at the central, was central to the planning of january 6, and central to planning of operating the justice department officials to execute a plan that donald trump warranted, and what donald trump wanted was essentially to shred the constitution in any way he could to stay in power. scott perry has a lot of information about that, and i think that scott perry owes it not only to central pennsylvanians, but to americans to share what he knows. >> democrat michael bryan is running for the democratic nomination to challenge congressman scott perry. the pennsylvania primary is next month. michael bryan is a retired lieutenant colonel who served 20 years in the marine corps as

a top gunfighter pilot and squadron commanding officer. michael bryan said this in his campaign announcement video. >> congressman scott perry and his far right gang of insurrectionists are a threat to democracy and a threat to our freedoms. that's why i'm running for congress, right here in my home state of pennsylvania. pennsylvania families need a fighter on their side who listens to them, who respects them, who cares more about them than about winning partisan food fights. this isn't about democrat verses republican. it is about american verses un- american. it is about regular people verses washington extremists like scott perry. it is going to take all of us to save our democracy, so join me and let's do this together. >> joining us now is michael o'brien running for congress now. thank you very much for joining us tonight. this would be a very important

race for the democrats to win. it is the kind of district that could with a great campaign if you can deliver it, it could flip to democrats. what is your strategy going forward in this campaign? >> yeah, that is absolutely the plan. and i'll say thanks a lot for having me on tonight, lawrence. the good news, the district is winnable. our governor josh shapiro won the district by 12%. in the 2023 municipal election, the local elections, the republican advantage is only 1%. so all this is going to take the right candidate. it is going to take somebody i think with a national service background who could appeal to the moderate republicans. and with my 20 years, that this is a squadron commander. and i think that is something that resonates right here is service.

it is beating scott perry. i've gone door to door and people are tired of him. he can't hide anymore. and he is now very much on the mt. rushmore of extremists. and we have built a coalition to be able to beat him this year. labor will be a big part of that. and like vote vets, serve america, and the viewers at home, you can be a part of this too if you go to michael o'brien and contribute to our campaign to help defend democracy. >> pennsylvania democratic congressional democrat michael o'brien. thank you very much for joining us on your first campaign appearance on this program. i hope you can come back. >> thanks for having me, lawrence. appreciate it. >> thank you. well no one has done more to expose the corruption at the

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senator sheldon white house has a new complaint about the supreme court, which he explains in a new article for the ohio state law journal. senator white house writes, an

appellate court unmoored from the trial court may aggrandize its power like a knight-errant, roaming at will in pursuit of his own ideal of beauty or goodness. a supreme court untethered from the fact-finding of the trial court or the fact-finding of congress can craft facts that let it roam widely into policymaking. senator white house explained the problem. >> for more than a decade now, the court has deviated these basic principles. facts found by lower courts with fake facts that they made up on their own. fake facts that over and over just happened to suit the big donors who put so many republican appointed justices

on the supreme court. shelby county and citizens united, both those decisions stood upon falsehoods presented as facts. and these warrants just drove by errors in passing of no moment. and these were false factual findings that were essential to prop up the logic of the courts holding. no facts, no desired outcome. and even after events thoroughly disproved the false facts. the republican supreme court refused to correct its mistakes. and so these faulty decisions founded on false facts live on

like zombies, plaguing our democracy. >> joining us now is democratic senator whitehouse, a member of the judiciary committee and chairs of the subcommittee on federal courts. he is also the author of "the scheme." how the right wing used dark money to capture the supreme court. senator whitehouse, thank you very much for joining us tonight. and please go on about the false factual findings. could you give us some examples of those? >> sure. i think lawrence, the most obvious one that your listeners will recognize right away is the false finding in the citizens united decision that nobody needed to worry about corruption because all of the unlimited spending that that decision would unleash would be transparent. that the public could evaluate the motive of the big donors

because they would know who they were. well, that's what the supreme court said, but here we are multiple billions of dollars in secret money proving them wrong. yet they won't go back and reconsider that false fact. without that false fact, the decision will fall apart because it was essential to the logic of that case. >> and so are most of the false facts predictive of what will happen if we rule a certain way or are some of them actually false statements about things that have already occurred? >> i think when you're constructing an opinion, it has a logical analytical shape to it. in order to get where the supreme court wants to go, they often have to fill in facts that justify in support the arguments in the logic of their

decision. and what they don't do is follow the rules, which you should look at the congressional record for facts that congress found if you are evaluating the support for a statute. they put the fact finding elsewhere than in the supreme court and for very good reason. and yet you see these false facts continuing to pop up to prop up decisions that produce results that the big donors want. and you could go through case after case after case. if you look forward, what they just did, the anti-choice and pro gun decisions was to say we're going to completely renovate the way we look at the law in these areas, and we're

going to look instead of history and tradition, which means we get to make up our own facts about what history is, and what tradition says, and that is why they have such a field day making fun of the false historical facts that they found in those decisions. and so it is a very broad pattern in the supreme court's political decision making. >> yeah, i mean on the decision, when i saw that they were quoting from old english common law, pre-colonial times of two english prosecutors and judges. i immediately said let's search and see how involved they were in witch trials. if you were practicing law in england that time, there was a good chance. of course, both of them were judges. >> witches were quite a big deal back then to them. >> and both of them were witch prosecutors, and both of them believed what you should be put to death. it was their view of abortion

that justice alito wanted us to adopt in the 21st century. >> we have a justice that is a very proven mechanism for making sure facts are truthful. and that is you develop them in the trial court, where the two parties can fight with each other over the facts, where a neutral judge makes a decision, and if the neutral judge gets it wrong and an appellate court can say hey, you got the facts wrong. but then they are suppose to send it back to the trial court to get the facts right. you don't wait until you've had the district court trial and the circuit court appeal, and the arguments in the supreme court, and at the end of the process when nobody can say another word, that's when you parachute in a whole boat load of false facts. that's not the way the system is suppose to work. for hundreds of years, it has not worked that way. so this is a real novel that he has pulled. and it is so novel that frankly academia lower courts haven't

figured out a way to deal with it yet because it is a new thing. >> senator sheldon whitehouse, thank you very much for joining us once again in your pursuit of integrity on the supreme court. i wish the supreme court cared about it as much as you do. >> thank you, lawrence. >> thank you. coming up, what's at stake for the world in the presidential election? president biden is sending more aid to help ukraine defeat vladimir putin's imperialistic war. donald trump praises dictators, including vladimir putin, including adolf hitler. ben rhodes joins us next. du more with less asthma. it starts with dupixent. dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems. it's an add-on treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma. and can help improve lung function for better breathing in as little as two weeks. dupixent helps prevent asthma attacks...

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prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. today the white house announced that the united states will send ukraine $300 million in weapons and military support. the biden administration has repeatedly emphasized that the money for ukraine aid like that is mostly spent in the united states. $38.8 billion would go to u.s. factories that make missiles, munitions, and other gear according to figures provided by the associated press by the biden administration. that is if congress passes the larger version of this aid. of today is the 25th anniversary of the 1999 expansion of nato to include the czech republic, hungary, and poland. these are three countries that share borders with ukraine's.

earlier today, president biden held a white house meeting with poland's president, who is calling for nato members to raise their defense spending by at least a half to counter russian war making aggression. but hungary's prime minister viktor orban met with donald trump last week and later said approvingly that if elected, donald trump, quote, will not give a penny in the ukraine russia war. here's president biden's response to donald trump's willingness to let vladimir putin take over ukraine. >> the fact is that you have a president who literally has invited putin to do what it wants, whatever the hell it wants to come into ukraine. he thinks putin is a strong, basically decent guy. you know who he's meeting with today down in mar-a-lago? orban of hungary, who has stated

flatly he does not think democracy works. he's looking for dictatorship. the only member of nato, that's who he's meeting with. i see a future where we defended mark asit, not diminish it. >> joining us now is msnbc political analyst ben rhodes, he's a former deputy national security adviser to president obama. ben, how does the administration squeeze out that 300 million after struggling now for quite a while to get a much larger package of eight out of the congress? >> well, i think there are ways you can look at the accounting and the pentagon and find different accounts where you can provide some of this aid. but the reality is, the delta, the gap between 300 million and 56 billion tells you everything you need to know about how important it is for congress to pass that funding. 300 million is not going to keep ukraine afloat when what they need is equipment at the front lines, small arms, ammunition, artillery shells,

the lifeblood of war in which russia is trying to wear them down. and donald trump in the republican party are standing in the way of that, because they're helping putin at the expense of ukraine. >> so it's very clear that vladimir putin wants donald trump to win the presidency, viktor orban obviously wants donald trump to win the presidency. it feels very clear to me that benjamin netanyahu would want donald trump to win the presidency, a much prefer that, and then he would have absolutely no criticism whatsoever from donald trump about anything that the israeli military did in gaza or anywhere. >> yeah, i mean, these guys, and they're all guys, are not shy about helping each other out, this kind of group of autocrats. viktor orban, who is basically turned hungary from a democracy into a single party autocracies in a decade, i actually wrote a book about this process a few years ago, this is like inviting mussolini in the 1930s, this is a guy who literally wants to be

the vanguard of undermining and overturning liberal democracy in the world. this is who trump is hanging out with. it's not subtle that putin and orban and trump and netanyahu in a whole bunch of leaders around the world represent a kind of authoritarian national politics. and look, what joe biden represent is an alternative in which america stands up for our allies, stands up for certain values, doesn't want to see putin roll over ukraine, doesn't want to see a basic value like the sovereignty of democracy in ukraine get shredded by the likes of putin or orban. and what is -- it's a foreign policy issue, it's what happens at these hotspots around the world, but it's also domestic issue. it's about trump wanting to copy the playbook that people like putin and orban, and netanyahu, have pursued and try to undermine democracy in their countries. so it's what happens here and what happens around the world as well. >> and of course, benjamin netanyahu is the product of democracy. he's democratically elected

leader, as opposed to vladimir putin. but it seems so fully within netanyahu's policy interests to have donald trump in the white house, who would never question anything that netanyahu or the israeli military might want to do. >> yeah, well, first of all, netanyahu is not something in common with trump too, which is he's under indictment. he needs to stay in power to stay out of prison, just like donald trump. he was undermining democracy in israel before october 7th by trying to essentially neuter the supreme court in israel that led to huge protests. now, he has every interest in ignoring joe biden, perpetuating the war that is causing such a terrible humanitarian catastrophe, and getting a friendlier person in the oval office in donald trump . so this is a real dilemma here. joe biden wants to try to put some guardrails around what israel is doing its military operation, i really urge that over the last several months, in part because i had to see netanyahu what is like to deal

with firsthand for eight years. but the reality is is donald trump would represent far more of a blank check for netanyahu to do whatever he wanted, not just in gaza, but also potentially going up to war in lebanon, that is something the biden administration has really restrained israel on, escalating this war even beyond the palestinian territories. so the stakes are huge in this election about what kind of country we, are we don't have another kind of copycat autocrat in donald trump here, trying to undermine democracy, and whether the united states stands for anything in the world other than might makes right and the autocrats club does whatever it wants. >> ben rhodes, thank you very much for joining our discussion tonight. >> thanks, lawrence. >> thank you. we'll be right back. we'll be right back.

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ben rhodes gets tonight's last world. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts right now. phanie ruhle starts right now. tonight, the battle for the

white house