good to be with you. i'm katy tur. this morning when nikki haley announced she was dropping ouch the race, a huge swath of voters got thrown back into play. they followed four distinct buckets, the ones who will never vote for donald trump, the ones who grudgingly will vote for donald trump, the ones who are willing to switch over to joe biden and the ones who will throw up their hands and stay home. it is that third category, the ones willing to switch that both sides will now try to win over. what are their issues and what will the candidates do to get them? joining us now from charleston, south carolina, nbc news correspondent ali vitali, and in west palm beach, florida, covering the trump campaign, nbc news correspondent, garrett haake. so ali, you have been talking about the haley voters, what they like, what they don't like. what they're looking for, this is from voters in utah, gathered yesterday. >> that's a really good

question. it's probably going to be biden just because it's been four years, and he hasn't divided, you know, he hasn't caused other countries to hate us like trump did. >> i'm a little concerned with trump, but at the same time, if it's between trump and biden, then i'd probably vote for trump. >> i have never voted for trump, and i can't -- i won't ever vote for trump. >> give me a sense of what you think about that third category, the ones who are willing to switch over to biden. what's going to convince them? >> reporter: i've met those voters, and i think the convincing factor is trump. the fact that they are not deciding between haley and biden, but the fact that they are deciding between trump and biden. some of these voters that i have met have crossed more than a dozen states over the past few months, they tell me, i'm a

strict republican, a lifelong republican, but trump to me is not the kind of person that i want to support as a conservative voter. that's not something that i think trump will have an easy time fixing if he can fix it at all. in fact, in my conversations with haley allies over the course of the last few hours since she dropped out, what's become clear is the fact that she didn't endorse today in large part because it's going to be very difficult for someone like haley who has such a divergent world view from the former president, it's hard for her to come around, and it's the same reasoning that applies to her voters. and so we all know the former president, we know that he is not someone who's willing to humble himself before people who might not willingly vote for him. that's why it's going to be difficult to win back voters. he's not going to fundamentally change who he is. i think it's going to be difficult to ask. >> what happens if nikki haley does end up endorsing donald

trump. i know she didn't do it last night. i know her world view is different. her world view has been different now for ten years. she endorsed him in 2016. she was part of his administration. mitch mcconnell also doesn't agree with donald trump. all this talk behind the scenes about whether he actually regrets not voting to convict him and potentially helping to keep him from running again, but at the same time, mitch mcconnell just endorsed him. what's to say that she's not going to do that, and if she does do that, does that convince some of those voters? >> reporter: nothing's to say she won't do that. the sub text of what you're saying here is that politics is a transactional business at the end of the day. when you look at mitch mcconnell, garrett and i know well, the way he views things on capitol hill and our other day jobs, he's someone who thinks winning republican majorities is what matters above all. if trump helps him get there, great, that's partly why we're seeing an endorsement as mcconnell is headed out the door

of republican leadership. we're seeing it the way other republicans on capitol hill are falling in line behind the former president. nikki haley has made these political calculations before. i guess there is a world in which she could do it again. i think in the short-term, it's pretty safe for us to say she's going to remain on the sidelines. i think the fact that she said in her remarks this morning that she is a conservative republican who always backs the nominee. and then didn't back the likely nominee. all of that notable. everything can change. we're certainly in a world where never say never. >> is there pressure behind the scenes, garrett, or do they just ignore that and go after the squishy voters? >> reporter: i don't think the trump campaign thinks this is a real problem at all, katy. that's certainly not been the posture of the candidate and hasn't been the posture of the campaign to pursue voters either with policy or stylistically, to try to do anything to appeal to them. the trump campaign looks at the same public and private swing

state polling data that we have seen, the half dozen states that are going to decide the election. they see donald trump ahead in basically all of it, and i think their view is that given the choice between biden and trump, enough of these kind of squishy republican voters will be pushed back into the trump campaign or the trump orbit that they don't have to pull them there. i wouldn't expect any kind of particular shift, either strategically or tactically to try to appeal to these haley voters to continue to point out what they think are the weaknesses of the biden record and hope that's enough to bring the folks home by election day. that's sort of a reflection of what they did in 2016 where ultimately it was anti-hillary clinton votes that got republicans who were, you know, nervous about trump back into the fold. the same thing generally speaking applies here. >> garrett haake, ali vitali, thank you very much. joining us now former republican strategist and cofounder of the lincoln project, rick wilson. you understand these voters because you went after them with the lincoln project to, i think

you would argue, pretty good effect in 2020. are they still gettable in the same way in 2024? >> actually the pool has expanded. in 2020 it was between 3 and 8% of the republican pool in the various states, depending on the state, was addressable, gettable. dobbs, it increased 7 to 11%. what nikki haley showed, between 25 and 50% are looking for something other than donald trump. will all of those stay, of course not. a lot of political gravity in our country. the fact of the matter is donald trump's campaign is much weaker than it was in 2020. it's a less unified party. a smaller, more intense and crazier party. those people are out there in large numbers. they're gettable. >> what do you say to those polls, not the national polls, the state polls for the swing states that show donald trump in the lead. in 2020, joe biden was in the lead in those states. >> look, in 2020, we have the covid overlay affecting our politics very profoundly.

it's going to be a hard competition. this is not going to be an easy race, there are no shortcuts, we have to go to the key states in arizona, pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, and do the work, and, you know, we're going to be doing the work with our ability to persuade some of these people. dobbs has blown a hole in republican female votes and ukraine has blown a hole. we call them the red dog conservatives. people like nikki haley who are uncomfortable with the idea of letting putin drive tanks into kyiv. >> there's so much different about this election. 2020 was different because it had the pandemic. this is two incumbents running against each other. two incumbents with historically, one with 91 felony counts against them, and one who voters question his age and his cognizance. is there any historical precedence? >> no, there's nothing like this in the past. i do think if joe biden had

shown in state after state after state he couldn't get more than 60, 70% of the vote, we would be talking about nothing else. trump is a weaker candidate than he was before and it's time to fight that fight. >> why are there so many pollsters and democrats and strategists who say the best way to win in november is to get rid of biden. >> they're wrong. it's not going to happen. it's a fantasy, and they need to stop chasing that dragon. this is a trump/biden race. i got in trouble when i said this is going to be a trump/biden race. grow up, this is the reality we face in this country, and these two men are going to go head to head. they are both old. one happens to be under 91 criminal counts and evil. it's going to be a fight. replacing biden is not practical, political. most people that believe that are not strategists, they're folks who write op-eds and are not involved in day-to-day politics. >> when you call donald trump evil, can you still say that you're a republican strategist. >> i'm an independent now.

i could not -- >> can you be a republican in a party headed up by donald trump? >> no, i don't think you can. and i think that what nikki haley activated in the minds of a lot of those voters out there was this memory of what it meant, strong on foreign policy, fiscal responsibility, all of those things that have been washed away from today's republican party and the idea that you have to go talk to those people and persuade them to vote for joe biden, it would have seemed absurd ten years ago. it would have seemed absurd that you would try to reach those people. donald trump can't win with just his base. joe biden can't win with just his base. the battle is going to be intense, enormously consequential, and persuading those votes is the mission. >> rick, you're not going anywhere. stick around for us. still ahead, what one thing millions of republicans say would turn them against donald trump. we're going to talk about that in just a moment. plus, what the biden campaign thinks it needs to do

to win over uncommitteds. what alabama lawmakers are trying to do to protect ivf, and how lawyers say it falls dangerously short. we are back in 60 seconds. secon. and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, i've bee telling everyone. baby: liberty. oh! baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪ here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost. (man) excuse me, would you mind taking a picture of us? (tony) oh, no problem. (man) thanks.to now. (tony) yes, problem. you need verizon. get the new iphone 15 pro with tons of storage. so you can take all the pics! (vo) trade-in any iphone in any condition and get a new iphone 15 pro and an ipad and apple watch se all on us. only on verizon.

donald trump cruise ld through last night's primaries. 23% of republican primary voters in california said that trump is not fit to be president if convicted of a crime. 31%, and this is more important because this is a swing state in north carolina said the same, and so did 37% of virginia republicans, two states you got to watch out for. joining us now, former law clerk to judge sonia sotomayor, melissa murray. and also still with us, rick wilson. i want to ask you about donald trump and the court cases and what we should expect to come. >> we can expect a whole lot of

waiting. the court issued their decision in the disqualification case, and this was hailed as a unanimous decision. there was a roiling dissent from the three liberal justices who argued their brethren had gone too far, deciding issues that weren't actually before the court, and so that means at least going forward into the april 25th oral arguments on the immunity case, we have a court that's sort of ribboned with disagreement over donald trump, and at least one portion of the court believing that the other side is somewhat in the bag for donald trump, doing their level best to make it easier for him to proceed to the general election. >> we have the immunity arguments now scheduled for april 25th. what should we expect in those arguments? what questions from the justices are you going to be listening carefully for? >> it's hard to say because the d.c. circuit's opinion on these questions was very thorough,

very methodical, and indeed gave a lot of attention, maybe too much attention to arguments that were speeches by the assessments of most legal experts, but going forward, i think we're going to look to see what the court has to say about the prospect of criminal liability, whether such criminal liability can be leveled on a sitting president or a former president, what is in the scope of the president's actual duties and whether or not going forward this claim that a president may use the trappings of his office to wreak political vengeance on a political rival without hope of accountability whether that is the case. >> the alvin brag case, the hush money payment to stormy daniels, it's scheduled to begin later this month. alvin bragg anticipates it will be a six-week trial. what's your expectation as somebody who watches this stuff about the timing of it, and what to expect. >> well, i think not watching this trial or any trial is going

to give you a clue. i think watching some of the other trials in which donald trump has been a litigant gives you an idea of what we can expect. i think we can definitely expect to have him in the courtroom at least some of the time. there will definitely be efforts it waylay some of the proceedings. the art of delay has been part of the standard repertoire of tactics of the trump defense team has deployed in almost every litigation which they have been a part. i think we can expect that to continue. whether or not justice juan mar can will agree to the delays is different entirely. we're going to see a lot with allen weisselberg who has his own legal issues to deal with going forward. i think the prosecution is going to make hay of him as a defense issue. >> that's the legal landscape, part of it, again, there's so many court cases, 91 felony counts as we have been saying. there's a lot of polling that suggests that there are republicans out there who voted in republican primaries that say, listen, i'm not comfortable

with somebody who's convicted. do you put in stock in the polling? >> look, i don't think anything in the court system is going to save america from donald trump. i think that he gets a net benefit to a lot of hard core maga voters. they think he's being persecuted for being an innocent businessman. but i don't think that's going to be the key valence where voters make their decision. we're in court on the stormy daniels case because he paid a porn star off to keep silent. that stuff is baked in the cake. the overhang of the legal stuff with trump, it's not going to change the outcome of the election. i have told my democratic friends do not count on the courts to put him in jail or take him off the playing field. it's not going to work. >> what if there's a trial, a jack smith trial regarding election interference right up against the election, what if we see that trial start in late

august. does that -- claire mccaskill argues that might help donald trump? >> i think it might and the fact of the matter is i don't think we can count on merrick garland to have the fortitude to keep that ruling. they'll say he's the republican nominee. >> it's the judge, it's not merrick garland. >> i agree. but i think that jack smith has been on a timer, always been on a clock, and i think claire may be right. i think there's a net benefit to trump with his base on those things, and again, so much of the chaos with trump is baked in the cake. so much is wired in. >> we're going to talk about ivf in a second. democrats look toward abortion, the issues surrounding the overturning of roe v. wade, the dobbs case. ivf is one of those knock on effects. there's the alabama legislature, which is trying to pass legislation to protect. we're going to get into this. protect ivf, they're falling short, not really defining what embryos are. is ivf going to be as potent an

issue as abortion. >> it's a powerful issue. millions of children liver on the earth because of ivf. many families were able to have children because of ivf. they're being told ivf is going to disappear, that it's a moral wrong, and this is something that basically 8 1/2 out of 10 voters think is a net good for the world to be able to bring children if you want a family. these people aren't acting from a pro life position. this is weirdly the antilife position banning ivf, and alabama is showing you how nervous they are about the political repercussions. >> not just alabama, but others who might see this as a case of where it could go given latitude. >> they race to donald trump, and the nrfc reached out to the senators with polling and message memos immediately saying get away from this. this is radio active. >> kellyanne conway said it. >> trump may not be a brilliant

man but he has a ferrell cunning about when an issue is a stinker. coming up, the lawyer trying to disqualify d.a. fani willis, what she showed lawmakers that was not admissible in court. what she showed them that she couldn't in court, in other words. first up, though the biden campaign has a big memo laying out its plan for the general election. what it says. he general election what it says all day long. [sniff] still fresh. ♪♪ get 6x longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection. try for under $5! [dog whimpers] [thinking] why always the couch? does he need to go to puppy school? get his little puppy diploma? how much have i been spending on this little guy? when your questions about life turn into questions about money...

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the race for the white house is now down to two. in a memo titled trump enters the general election, beleaguered and ill equipped, president biden's campaign lays out its plan for the months to come. with as it estimates, about 10% of the gettable votes still undecided. they plan on painting donald trump as dangerous and unfit, and president biden as accomplished and stable. so what will that look like in practice? we'll get our first view of it tomorrow at the state of the union. joining us now. nbc news senior white house correspondent, kelly o'donnell, and political contributor, jake sherman. jake, what's your expectation for tomorrow and the state of the union? >> reporter: we have been thinking about this. we did an interview with white house chief of staff jeff zients which will run tomorrow in a special edition of "punchbowl news." the interesting thing is we are outside the normal bounds of legislating. we're in the midst of a major

election year. i think this is going to be an opportunity for biden to position and frame his agenda going backward, what he's done, and say what he would do going forward, which is kind of the standard trope for any president in an election year, but i think the notable thing, a few things, the state of the union is one of the only relics of old politics as we have seen our system almost completely collapse over the last 15 or so years. 30 million people will watch the president, that's a lot of people. that's number one, and number two, the decorum, and i know this sounds trite, but the decorum in the institution at states of the union has really eaten away over the last couple of years, i would say. it's gotten pretty course. we hear people yelling at the president. i imagine republican leadership is going to urge their members to behave. i don't know that they will. but that's something that i'm watching out for tomorrow night here at the capitol. >> eroded, regressed, all of those terms. kelly o'connell, this memo that we're talking about, lay out

what the campaign is trying to do, and why they think that there's 10% of the vote that's still undecided? >> well, they do believe that there are especially voters, americans who are living their lives, busy with their own interests, and are not as tuned in to politics as we may be and are not interested in watching all of the iterations bit by bit. there are key moments. and the state of the union is one of them. closer to november, there will be a more intense period of looking to convince those voters who have tried to stay out of it for various reasons. they don't like the choices, they don't like the environment. they don't like the politics. for the president, tomorrow night presents a real chance to try to speak to those voters, try to welcome some of those who have been in the nikki haley camp. he did outreach directly today on social media and in a formal statement, praising her campaign and talking about there's room in his campaign for those who

may not agree with him on everything but would like something that is more toward the normal of governing, as compared to what we expect during the trump era, he takes a brash, no holds barred approach. there are plenty of voters who want that, as you well know. that is sort of where the campaign believes there is room, and they also believe that especially on issues like reproductive freedom, on the state of democracy, the respect for the vote, that there are those who are in the independent and even soft side of republican support who could be persuaded to come over to joe biden, even if he is not the ultimate choice they would want. when it's down to a binary choice. that's the expectation, and they're watching it closely. >> jake, mike johnson is, correct me if i'm wrong, bringing the parents of evan

gershkovich, does that signal something about what he might do for ukraine funding? >> reporter: he's bringing not only his parents but also survivors of the hamas kidnapped. it's interesting to me, katy, for a lot of reasons. number one, and this is the main reason, he has not done anything on israel, ukraine, taiwan, the big aid package that passed the senate with 70 votes. now, we are hearing and i'm trying to chase after johnson here today. we are hearing that there's something afoot. that there's some people working on legislation. there's a bunch of rank and file members, israel, taiwan, legislation as well. johnson has pointedly not, since failing to pass israel aid a couple of weeks ago has not put anything on the floor to address the situation. he will not put the senate bill on the floor. he's waiting for the house to work its will. what that means, i don't know. but it's interesting. i don't know what it means. he's been very hesitant to describe, a, how he feels on

ukraine, b, why he tried to offset israel aid against the wishes of the majority of the house of representatives, and we don't know much about his view on the indo-pacific. we're hoping to get clarity on that. it's something that's really undone on capitol hill. >> it is really interesting. it caught my eye yesterday, and i was curious about the motivation behind it. jake sherman, god speed, kelly o'donnell, thank you as well. joining us now, former new york congressman, max rose. good to have you. you're so interesting for a hundred reasons, and one namely, because you come from a district that is very pro trump, a very red era of new york city, staten island, bay ridge also pretty red, and that's in brooklyn for anyone who doesn't know. there are a lot of voters out there that maybe you identify as republicans, still do, but aren't comfortable within republican party. those are the nikki haley voters that president biden's team wants to get. are they, in fact, gettable by a

democrat? >> absolutely. look, everything is about to change. the game is just beginning now. i mean, you think about what the general electorate has been hearing in the mainstream news for the last two years. right? it's pretty much been the trump court cases, the incredible challenges that the biden administration and the country has been facing, and overcoming. and that's it. rightfully so. what the biden administration is about to do, the biden campaign is about to do right now is a barrage of paid messaging to rightfully remind the electorate of the craziness, the traumatic craziness that was the trump presidency. those four years. everything from his insane divisiveness to his equally insane competency. that they will remind people about the random abrupt muslim ban, when people were racing to

the airports, not knowing what's going to happen. trump himself was complaining about immigration, and shutting down the government as a result. these are all things that the american people have forgotten about. this is going to change dramatically. it is the biden campaign versus the trump campaign, but it's not a normal campaign. the trump campaign is basically at this point, a legal defense fund with a side campaign. like a side hustle that's a campaign. they will not have the money that the biden campaign has right now. and it's imperative that the biden campaign presses that leverage right now. presses that opportunity. >> does the biden team have a weakness and one that donald trump can exploit. i was reading chuck todd kind of said the same thing. i'll read what chuck todd said, by the time the two campaigns finish pom you willing each other, biden supporters are going to assume the constitution will be suspended the second day of a donald trump inauguration. the real question is which negative attacks will stick in

the minds of voters who aren't hard partisans and aren't predisposed to assume the worst about both candidates. >> the first weakness is that any sentiment about the economy is always a lagging indicator. so when people are expressing how they feel about the economy right now, they're also talking about their memories of inflation from nine months ago. right now, talk to any business, and the economy is ripping, and inflation is at significant lows as is unemployment. it's a beautiful sweet spot for the economy. over the course of the next six to nine months, you're largely going to see, if this economy continues to be as strong as it is, those numbers shoot up. the biden campaign will always be fighting against a memory of what it was like a year ago. that's the first. >> go ahead. >> the second is, everyone is talking about age, right? you can't get around that. it's absolutely imperative here that what the campaign does, and

i think they're starting to do this, is take that perceived weakness head on, and make it a strength. we actually saw this in the special election with tom suozzi. every democratic consultant, no, no, your weakness is the border. don't talk about the border. he took it head on, made it a strength, and it's imperative the biden campaign does it as well. >> i can't let you go without playing audio from ken buck, colorado representative who's not running for reelection. >> i'm not going to lie on behalf of my presidential candidate, on behalf of my party and, i'm very sad that others in my party have taken the position that as long as we get the white house, it doesn't really matter what we say. >> republican ken buck saying that's a big reason for why he's not going to stay in congress. >> what a patriotic thing to say, right. i mean, not to say something that's completely nonpolitical here, but, you know, 12 years

ago or so, i deployed to aversion. i was an infantry platoon there. you think about what the young service members, many of whom are in harm's way today or people just like them, they think about the politics they want, the politics they deserve, the politics that puts the country first. what unfortunately we're seeing from the republican party today is not a political ideology, but it's obstructionism. they actually don't want to solve anything as it relates to the border. they want to just press on what they believe is a weakness. it's not governing, and in my sense as a consequence, that's not patriotic because they're not fulfilling their constitutional duties. >> ken buck told me a couple of years ago, three, four, five years ago now that the goal of lawmakers in congress, largely or at least for enough of them, is not to legislate because legislation puts you in the cross hairs of special interests that will go after you. the goal is to complain that legislation is not getting done and then be happy when it

doesn't get done. max rose, really good to have you. thank you very much for being here. >> thank you, again. still ahead, what republicans in alabama are doing to reverse course on ivf, trying to right that republican. and what republicans in georgia are doing to keep fulton county d.a. fani willis in the spotlight. otlight. is he? confidently walking 8 long haired dogs and living as if he doesn't have allergies? yeah. fast relief of your worst allergy symptoms, like nasal congestion. right now you can get a free footlong at subway. just buy any footlong in the app and get one free. just scan the qr code and enter promo code flbogo. it only works from the other side of the screen, buddy. you still got a land line in your house. order now in the subway app.

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alabama lawmakers are set to finalize legislation they say will protect in vitro fertilization patients and providers from legal liability.

but lawyers have pointed out the bill as it currently is written falls short. that it does not address the heart of the issue, which is defining an embryo as a person. joining us now from montgomery, alabama, is nbc news correspondent dasha burns. so, dasha, explain what's happening. >> lawmakers are hoping to get this bill to governor ivey's desk by the end of the day today or tomorrow. what we're hearing from sources on the ground, is there is some dissent, this does not address the fundamental problem which is the fetal person hood issue, that embryos are people. the other thing that we're hearing is that on the right, they don't think this bill goes far enough, and on the left, they're also citing constitutional scholars who say the immunity that this bill would give to clinics and providers is going to create problems and not allow people to

sue in situations where they really rightfully should be able to be compensated. so this is getting a little bit messy here. and for providers, that's a concern. i will tell you, the doctors i have been talking to, they have been at the ready. they want to restart these services immediately. many clinics here in alabama have had to pause the critical ivf treatments. i just spoke to one of the doctors at alabama fertility special, take a listen to what she told me. >> we have women who have been waiting for this bill to pass, and, in fact, anticipating embryo transfers as soon as tomorrow or friday. we know that there are larger questions surrounding the supreme court ruling, and some uncertainties about whether the supreme court will accept this bill as part of our law. >> reporter: one of the lawmakers i talked to who's a democrat who said he will likely vote in favor of the bill so

families can get the process restarted but this is like put ago band-aid on a hemorrhaging wound. there's so much more fall out. the can of worms has been opened and this is quite a mess in the state right now. and just so you know, the protests that you're hearing behind me here is about a different bill. this is not about ivf. the alabama state house right now really the center of a lot of action here, katy. >> i was just going to ask that, dasha burns, thank you very much. and the lawyer attempting to remove fani willis from the 2020 georgia election interference case testified before a georgia state senate committee giving lawmakers new details on text messages that judge mcafee only allowed to be introduced as evidence under seal. joining us now from atlanta is nbc news correspondent blayne alexander. so why did the judge only want this evidence under seal? >> reporter: a couple of different things. i want to make it clear, this is separate from what's going on at the courthouse a couple of

blocks away. the judge is going to decide whether or not fani willis will be removed from the case. what we're looking at here, though, is a republican-led committee, investigating whether or not the funds have been misused. as to why this is happening, there's very little power that this committee actually has. they can either refer this case to another body if they find wrong doing or pose new laws for the future. republicans say they have a responsibility to investigate. they say they want to hear from da fani willis likely in the coming weeks or so and say they will explore a subpoena if necessary. democrats say the entire thing is politically motivated. one democrat on the committee told me that the sole purpose of the committee in his opinion is to take the focus off donald trump and to keep it on fani willis. the d.a. herself actually spoke while going inside to qualify for reelection. here's a little bit of what she said. she echoed that sentiment. >> it's a political quest. people are angry because i'm

going to do the right thing, and i'm going to stand up for justice no matter who is the person that, you know, may have done wrong in fulton county, and so they can continue on with their games, and i'm going to continue to do the work of the people. >> reporter: and i just want to underscore what this means here. again, this committee does not have a lot of power practically, but politically it certainly makes a big statement. remember, it's been more than two months since the allegations against d.a. fani willis kind of rocked this case, and this latest investigative panel just shows the degree to which these allegations have really overshadowed the charges against the former president and the case against him as well. katy. >> blayne alexander, thank you very much. and coming up, senate nominee adam schiff built a staggering war chest of over $30 million and it angered his own party, we're going to explain why. first, though, what we are learning about what really happened to victims in the october 7th attacks. tlong at subway. just buy any footlong in the app

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you have reviewed the compilation of evidence that the u.n. initial looked at. what did it show? >> well, the u.n. official spent 17 days in israel meeting with institutions, interviewing eyewitnesss. she was not able to interview any survivors because none are table to talk. she did learn of a small group of people who are survivors who are getting specialized trauma. and then she reviewed 5,000 images, 50,000 images actually, and so it's just this tremendous amount of photographic evidence of the day and also videos of the day. and so on monday, i reviewed about two dozen of those images and videos. some of them i'd seen before when we to our initial piece, and then some of them were actuay new, and we describe that in our report. let's listen t what pramila patton said report. >> with regard to the hostages

taken to gaza, we found clear and convincing information that sexual violence including rape, sexualized torture, cruel treatment has been committed against captives. and we have reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may still be ongoing against those still held in captivity. >> that's hard to listen to. it's really hard to imagine. and you've seen some of the images that she saw. i think it's important to describe them. i don't want to hear it, but i do think it's important to hear it. >> well, there's just so many dead bodies, particularly at the nova festival, just so many young people who were in their prime, there are photographs of the bodies with tattoos in this effort to identify them. and there's one that an israeli official showed me that appeared to show nails inserted into a woman's body, another -- >> like construction nails?

>> yes. now, patton said that she couldn't verify forensically 100% that that -- that any object was inserted into anyone's body. this is the challenge that this investigation, you're basing some of these determinations on one photo. and it's really hard to -- >> because the dead bodies were buried quickly as per jewish law. >> exactly. exactly. and that's why i think the eyewitness testimonies of the relationships including what she found two relationships of corpses of the nova festival, just the brutality and horrific nature of the attack really came through. she spoke about it at length at the u.n. in a room full of reporters. and it was interesting to see at the u.n. where typically israel has been critical of the u.n. for not defending its sovereignty, but clearly this was a message and the israeli officials who worked on the rape issue have been pleased with the report according to my

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with a qualifying internet package. don't wait, call and switch today! congressman adam schiff is now officially in a general election race for dianne feinstein's california senate seat. but instead of facing off against another democrat, as would be expected in a top-two primary, he's now running against republican steve garvey. how did a republican make it onto the general? in a state that democrat voters dominate 2-1. joining us nbc news senior political editor mark murray. how did that happen, mark? >> a couple reasons. number one, steve garvey, as you know well, being a native californian, is a really well-known name given his days playing baseball with the los angeles dodgers. but the other reason, and maybe even more crucial, is the fact that adam schiff's campaign ended up spending millions hear dollars on tv ads actually boosting garvey's name to probably a lot of republicans who are going to be voting in

that presidential primary anyway. and the ads ended up having words that steve garvey voted for donald trump twice, steve garvey is very conservative, with kind of the overt message that schiff and his campaign were trying to signal, hey, republicans, unite around steve garvey. vote for him when you steve garvey. vote for him when you're casting your ballot. and that seems to have worked for both garvey and for adam schiff. >> katie porter none too leases please -- too pleased. will there be blow back? >> yeah. she finished in third place, getting 13%, 14% of the votes so far, she said hey with a democrat, adam schiff, and republican, steve garvey, in the race, that's going to hurt democrats down ballot. a lot of those crucial congressional seats that will be playing out for battle for control of the house in california. and with the idea being that if you had two democrats who were running, you'd have more

democrats participating overall. katy, that's one theory of the case. other theory by supporters of adam schiff is that now having just a democrat versus republican race in overwhelmingly democratic state like california, that that ends up saving democrats hundreds of millions of dollars that could be better used boosting president biden in key battleground states or helping out john tester in montana or sherrod brown in ohio. those are the two kind of schools of thought about the general election that californian voters are going to have for that senate race. >> can i pull an audible on you and ask you about kyrsten sinema and arizona and the outlook between the two contenders for her now-open seat? >> yeah. audible away, katy. yeah, look, so -- i think about six or seven months ago the idea was that if sinema was running in that three-person race that that would end up, you know, helping the democrats out. but removing sinema now might

end up helping republicans a little bit because sinema was getting in polls support from moderate republicans and some republicans who weren't either happy with carrie lake or with the democratic side and likely nominee ruen gallego. and now removing her becomes a binary choice. either the republican ticket in lake or you have the democratic ticket in -- with ruben gallego. it's important to note arizona's a state where independents and unaffiliated voters are the biggest share of voters in the state. >> mark murray, good to have you. thank you very much. that is going to do it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right now. hi there, everyone. here we go. 4:00 in new york. as the stage is now set for a general election season