>> that's all for this edition of "dateline". i'm natalie morales. thank you for watching. for wat that's all for this edition of dateline. i'm andrea canning. thanks for watching. ♪♪ this sunday, still running. >> we don't anoint kings in america. we have elections. >> nikki haley tells me why she's staying in the race and fighting against the odds. >> do you think donald trump would follow the constitution if

he were elected to a second term? >> i don't know. plus, delay tactics. the supreme court agrees to hear donald trump's presidential immunity argument delaying his criminal trial in the election interference case. >> they have to do the immunity thing because if you don't a president will not be able to be a president. >> how many of trump's criminal cases will go to trial before election day? and uncommitted. democrats in michigan vote in protest of president biden's handling of the war in gaza. >> it is raw and it is genuine pain that people are in. >> what does it mean for november? i'll ask democratic congresswoman debbie dingle of michigan, and steve kornacki previews the challenges ahead. plus, exit plan. 82-year-old senator mitch mcconnell announces he's stepping down as republican leader this fall. >> time for the next generation of leadership.

>> joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. geoff bennett, co-anchor of pbs news hour and maria teresa kumar president of voto latino, and marc short, former spokesperson for vice president mike pence. welcome to "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. good sunday morning. super tuesday is just 48 hours away. is this nikki haley's last stand and could this be the beginning of the general election? 15 states cast their votes in republican nominating contests on tuesday. the biggest primary day of the election season with 865 delegates at stake, more than a third of the delegates in the republican race. now, nikki haley has lost four of the first eight contests,

struggling to match the votes she won in new hampshire. on saturday she lost caucuses in three more state. in missouri where former president donald trump won every county. idaho where trump swept all 32 of the state's delegates. trump also won the caucuses in michigan after winning the primary there earlier this week. >> if you look at the early states, he may have won them, yes, but he didn't get 40% of the vote. that's no small number. >> we will win big on super tuesday, and this november virginia is going to tell crooked joe biden you are fired! you're fired! >> haley is now dialing back expectations, telling me her goal on tuesday is a, quote, competitive showing against donald trump, not necessarily to win states. haley also weighing in on the supreme court's decision to hear arguments over mr. trump's claim that he's immune from criminal prosecution for allegedly trying to overturn the 2020 election.

>> i think you need to have a supreme court settle this. i don't think that a president should be immune from anything. i think that the president has to live under laws too. >> should trump's classified document case go to trial, do you think, before november? >> i think all of the cases should be dealt with before november. we need to know what will happen before the presidency happens because after that, should he become president, i don't think any of it will get heard. >> trump weighed in on his legal battles at a rally in virginia last night. >> it's almost impossible for me to get a fair trial in d.c. don't worry. it's all going to work out. it's all going to come out so good. i'm more popular than i ever was because of these people. >> trump leads biden by five points, 48% to 43% in a new poll of registered voters from "the new york times" and siena college, and there is an enthusiasm gap. just 23% of democratic primary

voters say they will feel enthusiastic if biden is the democratic nominee as expected. that's half of the number of republicans enthusiastic about trump. joining us for more on what this week's results in michigan say about a potential trump-biden rematch and for a reality check on haley's path on super tuesday is nbc news political correspondent steve kornacki. steve, break it all down for us. >> yeah, kristen. well, look. all eyes were on michigan this week because of the primary and also because it will be, a, important, maybe the pivotal state in the general election if it is a trump/biden rematch. take a look here. we're giving you the states as they win in 2020 in the trump-biden election. if you re-ran them, remember, the states have different electoral count votes now. some of them do. if you re-ran in 2020, biden will start out with 303 and trump with 235. how did biden win in 2020? he flipped five states that donald trump carried, that was

wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, georgia, and arizona. so if trump has a path back to the white house, it probably goes through those five states. now take a look, in terms of underscoring the importance of michigan and those three midwest state. if you start with georgia and arizona, they were the two closest in 2020. so let's say, just for the sake of showing you this, that trump is somehow able to flip those states. if he were to get georgia and if he were to get arizona, he would be short of 270, and that would bring you to the midwest states and he would need to flip one of them to get to 270. if he'd get michigan, then he'd be over 270. any trump path back to the white house, he'll have to win back one of those three midwest states, and michigan could end up being his best shot at it. you take a look at those primary results this week, trump more than 40 points ahead of nikki haley. he does win every county in the state. you do see a quarter of the vote not going to trump. remember, open primary in

michigan, democrats could vote, republicans could vote in the republican primary, some evidence that there's a fair number of democrats and independents who have been come in just because they want to vote against donald trump. but if you looked inside these counties, you would see donald trump's biggest vulnerability, and his softest support is in the suburbs with high concentrations of high voters with college degrees, affluent white voters and a place like oakland county just north of michigan and gigantic white collar suburban county and joe biden had carried this by almost 15 points by 2020. trump did win it in his primary, but he did worse than he did statewide. that's the kind of county he may have trouble in the fall. if biden will win michigan again, biden will do it by driving up big numbers in places like oakland county.

let's take a look at joe biden on the democratic side. he gets more than 80% of the vote in this week's primary and the uncommitted vote and 100,000 votes. there was an effort by activists with the handling of israel and hamas. you see those hundred thousand votes uncommitted on the michigan ballot and these primaries and even barack obama, unopposed running for re-election and uncommitted by over 10% of the vote. in terms of the actual number of voters who were out there protesting biden on the israel/hamas issue who might not vote for them in november. you might talk about a very, very small number. a very small number in that situation could matter here. so take a look here, and this is all as we say, assuming that nikki haley does not pull off the mother of all political miracles on tuesday because right now here's the republican race. you see the republican margin for donald trump by a 10-1 margin.

these are all of the states and the results we've had so far, but let's call out the big one, super tuesday here and just take a look at this map, and i think you'll see the challenge haley faces and here are the states. you start and it's the map and the rules. california, you would think, is a great state for nikki haley, closed primary, independents can't vote, democrats can't vote, and it's winner take all. if trump gets 50% plus one, he gets all 169 delegates out of california. a lot of states are like that. alabama is essentially a winner take all. arkansas is a winner take all. texas is at the statewide level essentially winner take all and they give out votes by congressional district, but if you look at those districts they really look friendly to trump. the bottom line for nikki haley, 40% is not going to cut it unless she's winning multiple states on tuesday, she's going to get buried in a delegate avalanche, kristen. >> just a fascinating breakdown. steve kornacki, thank you very much for that. i sat down with ambassador haley and began by asking her if she could still win the nomination given the uphill battle she faces. >> i think we push hard. i think we fight.

you're going to have 16 states and territories that are voting on tuesday, and so a lot of people's voices are going to be heard, and that's what this has all been about. you only have three or four states that have voted right now. we're a big country, and we want everybody to feel like they had the opportunity to vote for someone and not just against someone, and that's the biggest thing we hear. people are so desperate for normal and that's what we want to give them is normal. >> let's talk about super tuesday. if you wake up on wednesday and you haven't won everywhere and that's an if, would you then have to make the decision that it's time to drop out of the race. >> i've always said this needs to be competitive. as long as we are competitive, as long as we are showing that there is a place for us, i'm always going to continue to fight. that's always been the case. >> would you see yourself as competitive if you didn't win on super tuesday in any state? >> usually, you all decide what's competitive and what's not.

so, you know, you all decided whether i was competitive in iowa, new hampshire, or south carolina, so we'll continue to just keep pushing through. i don't look too far ahead. i look at what do the american people want? if 70% of americans say they don't want donald trump or joe biden, that's not a small number. if 30% or 40% of all these early states have said they want to vote for the direction of where we want to take the country, that's not a small number, and so that's why we continue to push forward. >> would it be tough to make the argument to stay in this race if you don't win anywhere on super tuesday? >> first, let's happen what happens on super tuesday. i don't like to look at what-ifs and hypotheticals. e like to live in the moment. they didn't think we'd make it in iowa, and we came 1% to second. in new hampshire, we got 43%. they did not think it would be between me and trump in the end and it is. what else can we do? how many more people can we touch and what message can we continue to give? >> based on what you're saying, ambassador, are you prepared to stay in this through the

convention? is that your plan? >> if the people want to see me go forward, they'll show it. they'll show it in their votes and donations and the fact that they want to continue to have me go forward. this is really about this primary isn't between donald trump and nikki haley. yes, on the ballot that's what you see. this primary is what is the direction of the republican party? are we going to go where you had donald trump, he grew government, he didn't reduce the size of government. he put us $8 trillion in debt in just four years, more than any other president, and you're seeing a republican party follow him into the wasteful spending, not talking about fiscal discipline. this is about donald trump who believes that you should be more of an isolationist that america doesn't need friends. that's his focus. my focus is we need to start respecting taxpayer dollars. we need to reduce the size of government. we need to put those resources more in the hands of the people. we need to focus on getting our

kids reading again. we need to secure our border and have a country of law and order. and our focus is to prevent war, and that's two very different republican parties. >> you're laying this out in stark terms. from your perspective, this is a battle for the republican party, you've been sharpening your attacks against former president trump. everyone has noticed in recent days and recent weeks, have you taken the prospect and the possibility of endorsing him off the table at this point? >> it's not anything i think about. what i have said -- >> sit off the table, ambassador? it sounds like you are in a different place. are people misinterpreting what you're saying? have you moved to a place where you are no longer planning to endorse him? >> if you talk about an endorsement you're talking about a loss. i don't think like that. when you're in a race, you don't think about losing. you think about continuing to go forward. whey what i'm here to tell you

is i don't think donald trump or joe biden should be president. i don't think that we need two candidates in their 80s. i don't think we want a joe biden who calls his opponents fascists or donald trump who calls his opponents vermin. i think people want a new generational leader that will go back to what the american dream is, what we want for our kids and a place and something that we can be proud of again. >> let me try it this way. you did sign a pledge, an rnc pledge, to support the eventual nominee. do you still feel bound by that pledge? >> i have always said that i have serious concerns about donald trump. i have even more concerns about joe biden. >> is that a no? >> are you bound by the rnc pledge? >> the rnc pledge? at the time of the debate, we had to take it to where would you support the nominee, and in order to get on that debate stage, you said yes. the rnc is not the same rnc. >> so you're no longer bound by that pledge? >> no. i think i'll make what decision i want to make and that's not something i'm thinking about. while you all think about it, we have thousands in virginia,

we're headed to north carolina, we're going to continue to vermont and maine and all these states to show people that there is a path forward, and so i don't look at the what-ifs. i look at how do we continue the conversation. >> you know, it's interesting. chris christie said he was asked why he didn't endorse you when he dropped out because he thought you would endorse donald trump, but it sounds like what you're seeing is you're leaning against endorsing donald trump. can you put clarity? are you leaning against endorsing donald trump? >> i truly am not thinking about any of that. >> you're not taking it off the table. >> there is a huge difference between me and chris christie. chris christie ran because he just didn't want trump. i am running because it's not about trump. i voted for him twice. i wud was proud to serve america in his administration. this is not a never trump movement.

i see america going into a bad direction, one that's going off a fiscal cliff, one where our kids don't ever think they'll be able to afford a home, we have 31% of eighth graders in our country reading and one with where we have a ridiculously open border and one where we're about to fall into war if we don't go forward. i think that's dangerous. i think that's not what americans want and that's what i'm trying to say. we need to stop this direction and go in a new direction where we can be safe and healthy, economic freedom, freedom of all types so that we can have americans that feel like they have a government working for them again. >> all right. i want to ask you about january 6th. it's been in the headlines again because the supreme court has said it is going to take the immunity case as it relates to former president trump. as you may recall, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell who said he is now leaving his leadership post said that donald trump was, quote, practically and morally responsible for january 6th, for the attack on the capitol. without weighing into the legality, do you agree with

mitch mcconnell? was donald trump practically and morally responsible? >> first of all, if you look at what happened on january 6th, i have said it was a terrible day. it was not a beautiful day. but i also look at the fact that you had a lot of americans going out there, blessed to do in this country with freedom of speech, and what went terribly wrong is we saw complete lawlessness going into the capitol, and what trump's role is not that he had the rally in the first place. that's what we do in america. the problem is when he had the opportunity stop it, you have everybody from fox news anchors to friends to family begging him to say something to get them to stop, including his vice president, and he was silent, and he didn't say anything. so it was, like, why did you allow it to happen because when a leader sees something that goes wrong, you use the power of

your voice to make it right. that's what's the question is where was he? why didn't he do it? those are the questions he'll have to answer. >> so, ambassador, going back to my question, yes or no, is he practically and morally responsible as mitch mcconnell said? >> we're going to find out. >> what do you think? >> i think he should have said something earlier. i think he should have stop side when he started. >> is that a yes? >> i am telling you. having a rally was not a crime. to turn around and not stop people from breaking the law when he had the opportunity to do that is questionable, and that's what i think the courts are going to have to play with and figure out how they're going to do it. i'm not a lawyer. i'm not going to try and play in that. i told you what i think in terms of the fact that any time there is lawlessness and you condone lawlessness and you don't do anything to stop lawlessness, he's going to have to answer for that. >> do you think donald trump would follow the constitution if he were elected to a second term? >> i don't know.

i don't -- i don't know. i mean, you always want to think someone will, but i don't know. you know, when you go and you talk about revenge, when you go and you talk about vindication, when you go and talk about it, what does that mean? i don't know what that means, and only he can answer for that. what i can answer for is i don't think there should ever be a president that's above the law. i don't think that there should ever be a president that has total immunity to do whatever they want to do. i think we need to have someone that our kids can look up to, that they can be proud of, and i think we need to have a country of law and order, a country of freedom, and a country that goes back to respecting the value of a taxpayer dollar, and we don't have any of that right now. >> what does that say about the state of the republican party that you're saying that you don't know if the gop front-runner will follow the constitution? >> because i'm saying that's not the republican party. that is donald trump. if that is in question, that is

for the voters to decide. what i am saying is i think we deserve better. americans deserve better. we can't say that our only options are joe biden and donald trump. we can't. two guys in their 80s. two guys that continue to put this division between america. two guys who haven't talked about a vision for the future. all they do is talk about each other in the past. that's the problem. >> you've seen the turnout, the results in these early voting states and the majority of voters are voting for donald trump. do you still feel at home in the republican party given what you're saying? >> i am a republican, and i know that there are thousands of people showing up at our events that are republicans that do believe, unlike donald trump, in fiscal responsibility, that do believe in limited government, unlike donald trump, that do believe that we should stand with our allies in peace through strength, and that do believe that you can't go and call names

and say things and blast against the bureaucracy and do all these things to cause this anger and think that there's a better way forward, and that's what i'm trying to issue. and when we come back, more of my conversation with nikki haley and whether she believes there should be federal protections for ivf. what is cirkul? cirkul is the fuel you need to take flight. cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your

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welcome back. this week a single republican lawmaker blocked legislation that would have created federal protections for ivf welcome . this week a single republican lawmaker blocked legislation that would have created federal protections for ivf access nationwide. mississippi senator cindy hyde smith who blocked the bill said it was, quote, vast overreach. i asked ambassador nikki haley whether she supports federal protections for ivf. >> what i support is we'd make sure that every parent has the right to have those fertility processes. i had my two children through fertility. i want every parent who wants that blessing to be able to have

that, and government should. do anything to stop it. >> so should there be federal protections for people for ivf? >> i think there should be protections for the embryos so that parents feel like they're protected and respected, but i think the conversation of what happens with those embryos has to be between the parents and the physician, period. we don't need to go and create a bunch of laws for something when we don't have a problem. there is not a problem in terms of what is happening. so we shouldn't have government create one. this is -- this is not a hard thing. when parents decide they want to have a baby and they can't, the blessing that michael and i had to be able to go through the fertility processes, to have our babies was a personal one. >> yeah. >> that we wanted to have just with our doctor. we don't want to have that

conversation with government. >> you're saying that the decision should be between parents and the physician. no one else. why doesn't that same standard apply to an abortion, for example? >> well, what i have said is this should be in the hands of the people, for the people to decide. they should decide whether their states should be pro-life or pro-choice. they should decide if their states should be ivf or not ivf. i personally think we want as many fertility options for people as we can, that's my opinion, but other states may decide something different. alabama was going in one direction. i don't think that's a direction you want to go the same way that i don't think the conversations that people have been having on abortion are good conversations. they divide people instead of bringing people together, and i think these need to be handled with respect and humanizing these situations instead of demonizing them. >> you have said embryos are babies. it sounds like you don't want the government when it involves ivf but you do when it comes to abortion. >> my personal opinion is that embryos are babies. somebody else's may be different.

i treat it -- the way michael and i looked at it was we always looked at it that way, but everybody looks at this differently, and you're looking at a situation where, one, you're not talking about masses of embryos, but, two, you've got to talk to your doctor about what's viable and what's not, and it's a very technical process that you can't just blanket a law around. >> i want to get the bottom line around because as you say ivf is a process in which embryos are sometimes destroyed or donated. do you support ivf as it is practiced in the united states? >> yes, of course. >> and should there be federal protections for that? >> yes. to mach sure that ivf is there, and to make sure parents have it and all of that, but keep in mind, too, even when you're talking about the issue of abortion and i don't think the fellows have talked about it well at all. we have to go back to what it is that we want. we all want to say how do we save as many babies as possible and support as many moms as possible? that's why i said with a federal law, rather than going and

demonizing this issue, let's find consensus and say why can't we come together on banning late-term abortions? why can't we come together on encouraging adoptions? why can't we come together on saying doctors and nurses shouldn't have to perform them? why can't we come together to say contraception should be acceptable. why can't we say a woman -- >> this is an issue that's been debated for over 50 years is. that a realistic consensus? >> consensus is available when you tell the american people the truth. the american people have been told to have options that aren't realistic. you can't get consensus unless you have a majority of the house, 60 senate votes and the signature of a president. that's not going to happen without consensus. >> let me turn to foreign policy quickly. senator lindsay graham has taken up donald trump's position that he wants to support more aid to ukraine only if it's in the form of a loan. is that something that you would support?

>> i think we need to give them the equipment and ammunition they need to win. >> is a loan appropriate? >> you can do a loan if you want, but that's like taking away the situation. what you should be looking at is putin has been very clear. once he takes ukraine, he's not going to stop. poland and the baltics are next. look at what he's doing with moldova now. those are nato countries. not moldova, but the others. that puts america at war. this is about preventing war. if we don't work with our allies to give them the equipment and ammunition to win, if ukraine falls, russia will go further and that puts america at war. so this isn't about a loan. give them the equipment and ammunition they need to win, and let's put this to bed. biden was too slow in the process and now republicans are trying to play footsie with it. this is not something to play footsie with. this is about protecting america. >> finally, you have knocked

down the prospects of running as a third-party candidate. can you just definitively say here and now you are ruling out running as a third-party candidate? >> absolutely. i say this over and over again. i've ruled out everyone can possibly say. i'm doing this because we have a country to save. i'm doing this for my kids and your kids and everybody else's because they deserve to know what the american dream feels like, what hope feels like. if you look at the fact they went through covid and they've gone through all this division and they don't think they're going to be able to afford a home or be able to make ends meet, we have to show them there is a path, and right now they don't feel that, and we owe that to them. >> all right. ambassador nikki haley, thanks so much for being here today. thanks for answering my questions i really appreciate it. >> of course. when we come back, michigan voters upset with president biden's israel policy sent a

message this week. will it cost him the state in a close general election. congresswoman debbie dingell of michigan joins me next. xt

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welcome back. the u.s. made its first air drops of humanitarian aid into gaza on saturday. 38,000 ready-to-eat meets in a joint operation with the jordanian air force. it comes after scores of palestinians were killed while trying to get aid from a food convoy on thursday. palestinian witnesses in gaza say israeli troops opened fire on civilians gathering to receive aid, but the israeli military says many were trampled in a stampede and others were shot when they threatened israeli soldiers. president biden weighed in on friday. >> people are so desperate that innocent people got caught in a terrible war, unable to feed their families, and you saw the response when they tried to get aid, and we need to do more and the united states will do more.

>> on tuesday, more than 100,000 democratic primary voters in michigan, 13% of the electorate, voted uncommitted, a protest vote over president biden's handling of the israel/gaza war. democratic congresswoman debbie dingell of michigan joins me now. congresswoman dingell, welcome back to "meet the press." thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> it's wonderful to have you in person. let's dive into what happened in michigan this week. the uncommitted vote, as i said, got 13%. two delegates are going to the convention this summer. how big of a warning sign do you see this as for president biden? >> so i'm going to answer this very differently, which is michigan is a purple state, and i've been saying that for a long time. we are a state that frequently votes uncommitted. president obama got a highly -- got a significant uncommitted vote in 2012, but it is one issue that needs to be paid attention to. i've got a lot of people that are hurting in my district and in the district that i used to

represent. the name of their campaign or the one that i believe was effective was called listen to michigan. they didn't think anybody was hearing the hurt that their families were facing. i have families that have lost 40 members of one family. the casework i'm doing for people that are starving, have no food, they want everybody to hear them. they are going to be an important group in november, but there's a lot of other groups that we have to make sure turn out. it's going to be a turnout election. >> there's no doubt about that, but this issue, congresswoman, as you know, has really gained traction. in fact, 11 other states that are poised to vote have similar protest votes that are being mobilized. what is your message to those voters, and is the president doing enough to reach out to them? >> i have had very direct conversations with the president, and i believe those conversations are private, but i think you've seen a change that the white house has been reaching out more to the

arab american muslims community, hearing their hurt. i am told that they are doing things very directly. i pray that we're going to get a temporary cease-fire any minute. i know that they've been working hard for that, and that it leads to a permanent cease-fire. we need a cease-fire. we've lost 12,000 to 14,000 schirn, and what hamas did was a terrorist act, and we want the hostages to come home, and americans are horrified and social media is letting people see the horrific circumstances in gaza. >> several weeks ago there were protesters at several of president biden's events and the first lady had protesters just yesterday when she was talking and we have reporting that the president's aides are actually trying to tailor some of his public events so that he interfaces less with these protesters, smaller events and no college campuses. is that the right strategy, congresswoman?

>> so i'm just going to say i meet with everybody and was protested almost every day last week. i've called for a cease-fire, and there are a lot of very strong feelings. i know that the president will meet with this community. i think they're very raw right now, and i think let's get some pieces in place, but you know, i want to tell you something else. i don't hear donald trump talk about this at all, and i'm not exactly sure how he would be handling it. i have some pretty strong feelings about what would be happening there. joe biden is talking about it. joe biden is working hard to get that cease-fire. >> let me ask you about one of the recent actions by the biden administration, those air drops that we just talked about, one former u.s. official called them inefficient and said it makes america look weak because the

is that a sign that the u.s. pressure on israel for more humanitarian aid, for fewer civilian deaths is just not working? >> i don't know. i think the president is pushing very hard. we have to get humanitarian aid in there. 85% of the people have no home, but people don't -- the population of gaza is 2.2 -- 1.5 million of them have come to rafah. and they have nothing. there's no toilets, there's no showers, there's no food. and that horrific picture we all saw on thursday was desperation. it was total desperation. and when you shoot into crowds that are desperate and hungry and there's a famine, that's what happens. we need to get aid. the president is trying to get it there every means possible. we all need to do it. and, quite frankly, humanitarian aid needs to be a part of any package we do. >> this is going up against the backdrop of new polling numbers that we are getting out for president biden, and it shows in addition to donald trump leading by five points a real enthusiasm

gap. less than one in four democratic primary voters said they were enthusiastic about president biden. do you think the white house is the president paying close enough attention to these numbers. is there enough urgency? >> first of all, i'm always the wrong person to talk to about polling. i told the world and many of my republican friends didn't think he would win the election in 2016. if you look at the polling we've been looking at, there have been three national polls that have showed president biden up or tied with donald trump, and the numbers and all of these different polls in the last -- he's done well. i think -- i do believe that president biden is getting a sense of urgency. i traveled with him two weeks ago. i spent eight hours with him. they're starting to put the resources we need to see into michigan. i think we are seeing a campaign that post-super tuesday will go all in on the ground and knows what we've got to do to get the job done. >> let me talk to you about

another major issue. the border. president biden reportedly planning to, thinking about taking an executive action that would restrict migrants from seeking asylum during surges. he's obviously gotten some backlash from some advocates. do you think that that is the right move? would you support that type of an executive action? >> you know what i want to see? i want to see the bipartisan bill that the senate worked on for several months actually come forward, and i think when you've got a former president who is a candidate for president tell people not to supporting? because it would give a win to a democrat, the american people need a win. >> understood congress did not move on that issue, but should the president? should the president be taking that expect active action? >> the president needs to be looking at executive orders, but he needs more money that needs to go in to border patrol. the republicans have cut that. we need more money for judges

and law enforcement that will detect fentanyl, and the republicans won't give it. do i think he should look at every action, do i think congress -- republicans and democrats need to put resources in it and give the american people a win now and not wait until another election. this is a hard issue. we are elected to do tough jobs. it's been decades and nobody's gotten it done. it's time to get the job done together in the congress. >> all right. we will leave it on that very powerful message. congresswoman debbie dingell, thank you so much for being here. we really appreciate it. when we come back, the issue of ivf has been a complicated conversation for politicians for decades. our "meet the press minute" is next.

welcome back. an alabama supreme court ruling defining embryos as children has thrust the issue of ivf back into the spotlight, sparking a nationwide backlash from democrats and even republicans, but it's a conversation the country has been having for decades. democratic congresswoman geraldine ferraro, the first woman to be a major party vice presidential nominee, joined this broadcast in 1984. take a listen to how she balanced her position on choice with her catholic faith. >> can i prove that i -- that a fertilized egg is a human being? no, i can't, nor can anyone else

scientifically, but because i can't, my church teaches there is a presumption of life. i will accept the teachings of may church, and i will go by the rules of my church in my own life. i have a lot of friends that do not accept that premise. >> you accept it? >> for me, i would never have an abortion. i would be very, very honest, i would never have one, but if i were to become pregnant as a result of a rape, i don't know what i'd do. i really don't know what i'd do, but that decision i would want to leave to me. when we come back, will donald trump's delay tactics keep his january 6th case from going to trial before election day? the panel is next. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine.

the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy.

welcome back. the panel is here. nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali, geoff

bennett, co-anchor of "pbs newshour," and maria teresa kumar, president of to latino, and marc short, former chief of staff for former vice president mike pence. >> you have been on the trail non-stop for nikki haley and she didn't give a clear path of what happens after super tuesday. do you think she sees this as her last stand. >> it was such a good interview, kristen. >> thank you. >> the struggle for people is she's not willing to say that it's over. if you're running for president, you're not looking for the exit route. fine, i take that point. her campaign behind closed doors with voters is not pitching a path to victory. they're pitching let's stay in this as strong as we possibly can, give up the money, and give us the support for that. when she says they are getting a substantial percentage of voters be it 20%, 30%, closer to 40% in new hampshire, i need those voters who want the alternative. they're not run of the mill voters. senator lisa murkowski of alaska called me last night and said she would not vote for trump in

the 2024 election, not surprising, but new, and she's not going to vote for biden and not willing to wave the white flag yet, and i meet voters like that all the time. >> it speaks for a potential vulnerability in the general election and the big question hovering over all of this, i sure tried to get an answer. [ laughter ] >> you did, you did. >> she did back away from the rnc pledge though. >> the pledge was a requirement to get on the debate stage. the leadership of the rnc is changing with donald trump set to install loyalists and once ronna mcdaniel steps down. but to the bigger picture about endorsement, it would only made sense if she was running for vice president for donald trump, but she's not. the endgame for nikki haley is she's playing the long game with an eye towards 2028. her campaign is investing a lot of time and money in building out a national infrastructure, raising her profile and raising her brand.

she's only 52, which is young by modern political standards especially these days. >> yes, it is. >> so the question about an endorsement is where does she see the party going and does that make sense for her politically. best case scenario for nikki haley is that donald trump loses to joe biden in november and all of her warnings about donald trump's electability will seem prescient. >> i think that's a really good point, marc, turning to you, i think it was notable when she paused and she answered, i don't know, when asked if she thought donald trump would follow the constitution. trump asked him not to follow the constitution. what did you make of that moment? >> i don't know that i was central to this campaign. i think he wanted to bring our party back to traditional conservatism. i think if past is prologue, i think the answer to that question is no. i think around events of january 6th, the president and viewing the constitution is to his personal desires, but at the same time the vast majority of voters when leading in the polls is they're concerned about

bidenomics and concerned about inflation and the crisis at the border and that's not the number one issue that's driving them and thankfully, our founder's greatest system that has a lot of checks and balances and we had a president who maintained his oath to the constitution and we had congress who certified the re-election, and we had courts that weighed in. >> maria teresa, what do you make of the big questions? looming over this is how might trump's legal battles impact a general election? because, boy, in the primary, they have only emboldened him. do things look a little bit different in a general election? >> i do, because every time he goes into court he is able to raise money and rally his base. he is right now in his primary for the maga underpinnings, right, for the maga crowd, but once you get into a general election, if you see what happened during the midterm elections where everybody said there would be a massive red

wave, there was a red wave because independent and mott rat republicans say this is not my guy. why? they have been reminded all summer of what had happened during the january 6th hearings. they were actually able to disclose all these shenanigans that he did to try to undermine 80 million voters, the largest possible insurrection actually was going to suppress the maximum amount of voters and that's what the endgame was. going into september. he's gambling with the american people being reminded of his trying to undermine our democracy. >> marc, what do you make of this delay tactic that we've seen with the team has worked. the supreme court is taking up the immunity case. of course, there's this whole case in georgia, we don't know when the documents case is going to go to trial. >> i agree with maria's commentary that they'll have fewer benefits, and it's remarkable the amount of support he's gotten because of these cases and a lot of americans feel they are politicized, but i think that it's been effective to delay for sure that benefits him. i think it's appropriate the supreme court weigh in on something this monumental, but i think the biggest irony here,

kristen, and what we're talking about, is the people are talking about the president is taking the position of absolute immunity for presidents and nothing to come after. and the campaign that says i will prosecute joe biden on day one and that's totally inconsistent. >> that's a great point and something they will lock away for next time i have to ask a question about that. that's a great point. we have super tuesday and the state of the union address, ali, and the big news on your other beat was the fact that leader mcconnell announced he's stepping back from his leadership position. he said it's time for a new generation of leaders. here is joe biden poised to deliver this state of the union address. people will be listening to, yes, his policy, but his performance amid questions over whether he can serve another four years. >> it comes after super tuesday when donald trump is able to lock up the nomination in more fashion than we've seen he's been able to do it. we've heard this speech from biden before and we were talking about this earlier. i think this congress has been so unruly, house republicans are showing that they are not only

willing to impeach joe biden over a case that is increasingly falling apart, but they're also willing to eat their own as they go about governing, and then on the other side, we anticipated someone like senator john thune or even john barrasso to be the likely heir apparent. now you're seeing the water get even muddier, and i'm someone who doesn't think joe biden has the power in terms of swaying the votes on the hill, and the way that we can share the republican party from a leadership perspective or even with barrasso pushing thune out of the way i think would be really stark in terms of the difference that we see in this republican congress. >> i was talking with a top democrat who said he never thought he'd be in a position to be sad to see mcconnell go and start eyeing the exits, but he is a potential alternative to the point you make. >> marc, what happens if the senate is re-shaped in a maga fold? >> well, i think first, we don't

appreciate enough the legacy of mitch mcconnell. i think the way he reshaped the courts is a tremendous legacy that we are not appreciating in all of the other news. but to ali's side, when paul ryan stepped aside, he left a lot of time that i don't think was helpful in some ways in retrospect to kevin mccarthy because they could try to make deals, and they have the same dynamic in the senate, and there is so much time that there will be a lot of transactions and a lot of negotiating here that may not be beneficial to those throwing their hat in the ring. >> if you're merrick garland watching this, he blocked merrick garland from getting a vote from the supreme court, how do democrats see this and what do democrats want to see on thursday night from the state of the union? >> i think what the democrats are going to remind the american people is what happens when you no longer have someone leading the republican party who believes in our institutions. what happens when they all of a sudden become a truly maga party of the most extreme?

so that actually -- as we're going into the elections, that actually gives the democrats an opportunity to remind the american people that the ballot is not just about, yes, who's going to be leading the senate, but more importantly, who's going to lead the country, and that takes me now to the state of the union. we heard senator -- i mean congresswoman dingell talk about the importance of having the president speak very clearly to the american public not just on immigration, but the totality of it. i've been traveling the country, and i can tell you whether we're talking to grassroots activists or volunteers or even donors. they want to hear from the president, what are you going to do for us tomorrow? it's not enough to be against trump, but what is our future? and i know that folks are saying that he's going to talk about the border, and i would encourage him not only to talk about the border through the lens of the immediate international issue, but also to talk about the undocumented individuals who have been here for so many years because they live amongst close to 16 million americans who are waiting for the president to say i see you and we're going to solve our immigration issue for those individuals.

>> all right. high stakes on tuesday and thursday night. awesome conversation. thank you all. before we go, do not miss our super special coverage tuesday coverage beginning at 5:00 p.m. eastern on nbc news now and 10:00 p.m. on the network and tune in on thursday night for president biden's third state of the union address. that is all for today. thank you so much for watching. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press." the media's like -- the media's been all themselves trying to figure out why am i not getting out of the race, why does she keep fighting? what's she doing? first of all, when 70% of america says they don't want donald trump