this hour on ayman, the results from d.c.'s republican primary -- faces her best and possible shot -- vice president calling for an immediate cease- fire in gaza. how to turn those words into action, and what it means for

the u.s. relationship with israel. and a blatant bigot as having to trump's about in florida. he is hanging with the leader of hungary, and anyone who values democracy should be worried. i'm ayman mohyeldin. let's do it. ♪ ♪ ♪ we begin this hour in washington, d.c., or at any moment, we expect a call to be made and d.c.'s republican primary as a majority democratic jurisdiction, it's expected to be haley's best shot at scoring a victory and our presidential nominating contest. and it comes as the former u.n. ambassador vows to push for, say she no longer feels bound by the rnc chair to endorse trump if he becomes the gop nominee. here she was earlier today and a rally in vermont. >> the media has been, like, all over themselves trying to

figure out, why is she not getting out of this vice? why did she keep finding? what she's doing? first of all, when 70% of americans say they don't want donald trump or joe biden, yes, i'm gonna keep on fighting. [applause] >> and while haley trails trump in the delegate count, she is striking at the heart of a real, key issue here. in that polls do show many americans not wanting another trump rematch with biden this november. even republican senator lisa mccaskill, who has endorsed nearly, said in an interview this weekend that she could not vote for trump, and could not vote for biden either. so keep an eye the super tuesday with contests in 16 states, and one u.s. territory. 865 republican delegates are up for grabs. if trump meets expectations, sweeping delegates tuesday, a key question than emergence. went to these never trump and nikki haley voters and up

going? -- caucus voters say they would be so dissatisfied with trump's nomination, they would not vote for him in the general election. joining me now from the nation's capital is nbc news correspondent brie jackson. brie, it's great to have you on the show. you've been talking to voters all day. what if they've been telling you about what they are feeling in this primary race? >> good evening. so we did hear a mix of things from photos. in fact, one voter we spoke with, he said he's always voted republican. you voted for former president trump in 2016. it did not vote for him in 2020. and he says, if trump is the eventual nominee, he will not vote for him. in this 2024 election. now, other voters that we spoke with, they were for former president trump. some of the issues in particular that they spoke about where border security, the economy, as well as concerns about crime here in washington, d.c.. now, others have said that they like nikki haley. they want her to stay in this

race despite losing every republican contest so far. another voter i spoke with says he thinks the competition we've seen in this race is good for the republican party. take a listen. >> i think we are definitely going to be a stronger party if people stay in, and we have this process play out. and i believe -- i fully believe it. i think nikki haley, i promise you this. you're going to see nikki haley and president trump shake hands and come together in this party. because again, the key is about beating biden. >> now, d.c. is seen as one of the best chances for a u.n. ambassador, foreigner u.n. bassett or nikki haley, to pick up a win. we are expecting the results to come in any moment now. but here's the reason why there was that sense that she could possibly win here in d.c.. it's an urban area with a lot of college educated voters. and that is a demographic that's shown a lot of support for haley, and has come up

consistently for her. now all eyes will turn to super tuesday, regardless of what the results here are tonight, in the says she plans to stick in this race. so now, we're just waiting to see how she did here in washington. >> all right. nbc's brie jackson in washington d.c., thank you, brie. with us now -- former gop communications director and former republican congressman joe walsh, who is now host of white flag with joe walsh. it's good to have both of you with us. terrell, i'll start with you. your response to the projected victory in tonight's gop primary. what's the significance of it if nikki haley winds? which, you know, if we see where this is suggesting, she might actually win this one. >> ask president marco rubio. he's the last one who won the d.c. caucus. it means nothing, okay? you need 1215 delegates to win the nomination. she has 24. you add 19 more, and that's it, so far. super tuesday, she's most likely going to get swept

again. that gives donald trump 860 plus more. he already has 244, i believe. so he, essentially, locks this laying down on tuesday. i appreciate that, you know, the media is covering this as the horse race, and the dct caucus, this and that. but really, in the greater scheme of things, it doesn't matter. this is just prolonging the notable as long as nikki haley is concerned. but i have to say that her interview today on meet the press was more reason why people are frustrated with her, and why shall never overtake donald trump. the fact that she could not answer a yes or no question about whether she would endorse him or not? after she couldn't answer questions saying he would defend the constitution? which in my opinion, should be the one thing that either qualifies you or disqualifies you to be president of the united states. she said she didn't know if you follow the constitution. but you couldn't say definitively whether she would endorse him or not.

this kind of doublespeak is so -- it's frustrating. that's why the shall never overtake him. she doesn't have the backbone. >> because you brought it up, let me just play that. that soundbite. >> first of all, if you talk about an endorsement, you're talking about a loss. i don't think like that. when you're in a race, you don't think about losing. you think about continuing to go forward. what i can tell you is, i don't think donald trump or joe biden should be president. i don't think that we need to candidates in their 80s. >> not the exact soundbite you are fighting to, but as you said, she was asked the question about whether she would endorse donald trump, she dances around it, and specifically when she's asked about how he would deal with threatening our constitution. but to your point, joe, what do you think is the point, if you will, of what nikki haley is doing at the state in the race? she's not going to win the nomination. she continues to embarrass herself but not simply answering these questions about

the threat and the risk that donald trump poses to our democracy. what in the world is she doing here? >> i don't think she has a clue, eamonn. and look. turns right. nikki haley has spent the last month, month and a half, saying at lad that donald trump is unfit to be president. he's right. nikki haley sounds like tara. she's right. trump isn't fit. but when she gets out of the race, when nikki haley get side of the race, this week or next week, and she endorses donald trump, which he probably well, then what was the point of all this? it makes no sense. and if she doesn't endorsed online trump, which would be great, she's done as a republican. because the truth is, this is

trump's party. trump locked this primary fight down the moment he got in the race. this is trump's party. i don't know what nikki haley is doing. >> let me ask you this. no labels are meeting march 8th, no labels delegates are meeting might change. that's coming this coming friday weather to decide whether or not to go forward with a third party presidential bid. no labels tells nbc news -- will likely be before april 15th. at this point, he would even beyond that ticket? and in terms of timing, that when we know third party candidate -- nikki haley. >> now. and i don't know what no labels would be doing. right? what are they doing? they know good time while, that's a third party ticket guarantees donald trump's reelection. that's the end of it. there's no way around. this is simply a vanity

candidacy effort if they do this. when ross perot didn't 92, he did it out of ego. he did it because he didn't like the bushes. and it was a vanity candidacy that ensured bill clinton would win. that is exactly what will happen here. so the sooner no labels finally stops this nonsense and gets on board if they want democracy to survive, than they need to throw everything behind joe biden. because donald trump in the republicans are not the answer. and with all due respect to my friend joe walsh, nikki haley doesn't sound like -- we actually mean what we saw, and we don't qualify everything. you've been consistently against donald trump, unlike her. >> i'm gonna go out on a limb and say neither of you are trying to hedge earpiece that's fair position in the cabinet of donald trump. still get a sense that nikki haley is trying to audition for a permit position where she'll stand up to trump, he'll talk tough, but i'm pretty sure feet came to her and said, would you be my secretary of state? my ambassador? she probably jumped on it.

>> amen, nikki haley thinks that in 2028, if and when trump loses and 24, nikki haley can say, i told you saw, and she'll be the republican party nominee in 2028. bs. that's done. this will still be trump's party in 2028. and nikki haley is not maga enough for that party. >> chuck todd argued in an op- ed for nbc news that it's too late for a third party candidate to emerge in 2024 because of the divide over abortion. what do you make of that? and given the recent developments we've seen with the alabama ivf ruling, do you think there is a chance it will become even more of a galvanizing issue for voters? >> 100%. i would argue that it was never the right time for no labels to do this. in this election cycle. but i get it, we have to have an argument here about. and the abortion issue is such a powerful one. the abortion issue and ivf, and

this is tacked directly on women's rights in this country, that is a gift to the democrats. if you look at the way republicans have voted in these primaries votes, 20% in iowa, a third in new hampshire, and 25% in south carolina said that they would never vote for donald trump. now that was even before that ruling. you look at how many pro-choice republican women that are, and there are minute here who don't want to see their daughters have less rights than their mothers. and those key swing states, that will make the difference in this election. those five states, arizona, pennsylvania, wisconsin, nevada, michigan, georgia, maybe. this is an issue that could make or break the election. and the republicans know it because the issue is kryptonite to them. and democrats should know this to. and they need to unify and rally around joe biden and stop throwing political temper tantrums about other issues. because none of them will matter if donald trump wins again. so this is a really good issue for them to run on.

and it will hopefully bring over what we called the lincoln project -- commission structured to no longer vote republican in this election cycle if women's rights manager to them. >> all right, tara and joe, please stick around as we await results from the republican primary in d.c.. doesn't matter at this point, but will rate around from the. in the meantime, a shift in tone from the biden administration is finally calling for intermediate cease- fire. the words are nice. where is the real action to save innocent lives, though? li? migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. it's time to feed the dogs real food, not highly processed pellets. the farmer's dog is fresh food made with whole meat and veggies. it's not dry food. it's not wet food. it's just real food. it's an idea whose time has come. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am...

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given the immense scale of suffering in gaza, there must be an immediate cease-fire. [applause] for at least the next six weeks, which is what is currently on the table. this will get the hostages out, and get a significant amount of

aid in. >> all right. that was vice president kamala harris earlier today with some of the strongest words today from the biden administration on the need for a cease-fire in gaza. it comes a day before she is set to meet with the israeli war cabinet's minister, and uconn's, to further discuss the agreement. as it stands, the deal calls for a six-week cease-fire with the potential to extend from there in exchange for the release of sick female an elderly israeli hostages. this comes as an israeli official told nbc news that there was intense u.s. pressure on all sides to reach an agreement by the start of ramadan on march 10th. joining me now to discuss these latest developments, aaron david miller, senior fellow at the carnegie endowment for international peace. is, of course, a former u.s. middle east negotiator. erin, it's great to see you again. i'll start with these comments. because we know that hamas officials were also in cairo today for negotiations. a little bit of confusion as to whether the israelis were gonna

go there or send someone there. they are accepting this offer, if you will, by the americans. but what are the chances that they would agree, that hamas would agree, to a deal that does not specifically spell out a permanent cease-fire? >> if that's hamas's demand, and it certainly hold out for that, it will be a cessation of hostilities, and probably in the withdrawal of israeli forces around gaza, chances are -- i do believe, and thanks for having me, that -- we've probably reached the best opportunity in the next week or so in order to do a limited exchange. 45 hostages, initially, the elderly, the sick, and women, for a 45-day, one hostage per one day, temporary cease-fire. and an unknown and asymmetrical number of palestinian

prisoners. i think hamas wants this before ramadan. i think they want the prisoner release to represent their a vibrant organization and they push the israelis to release prisoners, which resonates strongly in the palestinian street. i think netanyahu is also under pressure from benny gantz, whose due monday into tuesday to meet with the administration. by the way, the administration is giving fans something that they were not prepared to give benjamin netanyahu, which is an actual visit to the white house. and if the president were in town, it would not surprise me at all if he dropped by. so i think there is a chance. but in this sort of negotiation, when the key decision-maker is literally meters below ground on the hamas, under rafah, khan yunis, it will be done when it's done. >> yes. into that point, what incentive does hamas have now to negotiate, in the sense that they have seen all of the destruction that this happened, the difference between maybe 30 to 35,000 more lives may not

even be a factor for them if they'd been willing to withstand and tolerate so much killing on the palestinian side. you see a world where at this point, having hamas suddenly say we're prepared to enter negotiations without an end to this war, is really a possibility? >> i think so. i mean, they'll keep 50. largely men. >> the soldiers. yeah. >> right. for what they believe to be the ultimate trade. which is permanent cease-fire. the architect of the op sober seventh -- really does believe, i believe, that he can survive this. and hamas is going to remain a factor. in any palestinian governance structure that emerges and the days after. so i think hamas is also under great pressure. they need to re-arm, re-up. and i think they want to pause. and, i might add, if there is a deal or if there isn't a deal,

i persuaded the israelis intend to go ahead with their ground campaign against rafah. moving 1 million palestinians out of harm's way. >> yeah. let me ask you about the airdrops, and what that says about american diplomacy at this moment. you have egyptian israel, two of the largest recipients of foreign aid from the united states. and they're unable, the united states is unable to get either one of these sides to open up the border to get aid in or to kind of go along with the united states. do you see it that way? is that a wrong assessment to see that the united states is unable to not imposed swell on these two countries, certainly shape the dynamics on the ground to some extent? >> you know, i think it shows the limitations of american influence. and i think we have to be clear. the beginning of this conflict, from october 7th on, it is the two major combatants, israel and hamas, that is shaped the intensity, the process of

escalation and de-escalation. we often forget that. the middle east is littered, literally littered, with the remains of the schemes and dreams of great powers we somehow wrongly believe they can impose their will on smaller ones. for my money, and by the way, i think if the president wants to deliver a message -- kamala harris, vice president, singled up the israelis, fair enough. but if the administration wants to deliver that message, it should not come from the vice president. it should come from the president of the united states. he is the one who needs -- why, as she does, why the israelis bear abnormal responsibility for the absence of more humanitarian assistance into gaza. i never believed, ayman, in the good cop bad cop. i don't think it works. and i think israelis will largely dismissed with the vice president has to say. >> i would go one step further and say probably would be dismissed by's current israeli prime minister, who has shown

previous disregard for american administration. certainly democratic ones going all the way back to president obama. but i completely agree with you. it should've come for the president. it's over -- always a pleasure, share. thank you as always. >> thanks for having me. >> next, as jon jones writes for msnbc.com, trump has shown no qualms about bringing bigots into his about. and, now he's about to do so again this week. welcoming hungary's leader at mar-a-lago. at mar-a-lago.

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nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. let me share mine. i'm the only candidate with a record of taking on maga republicans, and winning. when they overturned roe, i secured abortion rights in our state constitution. when trump attacked our lgbtq and asian neighbors, i strengthened our hate crime laws. i fought for all of us struggling to keep up with the rising cost of living. i'm evan low, and i approve this message for all of our shared values. what do i see in peter dixon? i see my husband... the father of our girls. i see a public servant. a man who served under secretary clinton in the state department... where he took on the epidemic of violence against women in the congo. i see a fighter, a tenacious problem-solver... who will go to congress and protect abortion rights and our democracy. because he sees a better future for all of us. i'm peter dixon and i new herbal essences sulfate free.

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authorized to disclose them. trump in orban are palace, first developing those strongmen bromance during trump's first turn. since trump was voted out of office, orban has maintained a distant relationship with president biden. according to the new york times, viktor orban will not meet with -- during his trip. -- a great leader and a strongman. orban loves trump right back, going as far as to say a second trump time is the only serious chance to end the war in ukraine. -- sending troops into ukraine risks clear why, just like trump, scapegoating immigrants is at the core of our bonds politics. he is condemned countries that views as mixed race nations. -- immigrants, quote, pose in the blood of america. -- should be wearing, with trump expected to be the gop nominee in november. joining me now to discuss this is barbara f walter, professor

at the university of california in san diego. she's the author of how civil worlds start and how to stop them. professor, it's so great to see, thank you so much for joining us. i wanna start with your initial thoughts on this meeting taking place in mar-a-lago, which a person briefed on the plane said orban initiated a. what do you make of the timing of these two strongmen meeting, and what's or gas as to what the focus of this private conversation might be? >> well, these two men need each other. trump needs orban because orban wrote the playbook, bigoted lee, on how to basically steel democracy from voters. orban was legally elected and hungary, and he expertly and systematically, slowly, rolled back democracy to the point where he can stay in power probably as long as he wants. and there's very little that hungarian voters can do about it should've going out in the streets and starting mass

protests. this is exactly what trump would like to do. he's been clear that he would like to do this. and my sense, even though i have really no idea what they're discussing, but my sense is that they're talking about the upcoming election. for trump, it is all about getting elected in november, and then once he is there, stay in power forever. and orban is very smart. he's very strategic. he's very experienced. and i imagine that's what they're talking about. >> so, you've outlined a very important point about what trump can learn from orban in terms of how to manipulate democracy, and to, you know, basically reverse democratic gains to make america authoritarian. is there anything for us, those who care about preserving our democracy, that we can learn from hungary's experience to prevent -- obviously short of voting trump out, making sure he doesn't return to office, putting him our way from office, what is it that the rest of us can learn about what orban did not agree that can be prevented from happening here,

institutionally and illegally? >> yeah. i mean, we can learn a lot. my husband's family is actually from hungary. and so, we have family in hungary, we have talked to them over the decades. we've talked to them about orban when he first was elected. and one of the lessons that we can lane is to not think that your democracy is safe. to take very seriously the small, incremental changes. don't convince yourself that, okay, we lose a tiny bit of rights and freedoms here, but it's going to be okay. and he's going to provide safety and security. anytime you hear somebody start to campaign on a message of fear, be very, very wire a. that is the way that non democrats, or one of the

autocrats, convince voters to give up their power. by making them afraid and convincing them that they need the strongman. so the real lesson is, if somebody like trump policy that he is going to be a dictator on day one, believe him. and start to visualize what an america is going to look like if you do not have the rights and freedoms that not only have we had forever, but that we take for granted. what is it like, actually, not to be able to say what you want at a party? or at church? or somewhere else? what is it like, actually, not to talk to neighbors anymore because you don't know who's side there on? i think the most important thing for americans is to begin to visualize what a different life would look like. which we've never, ever experienced. and realize that it could happen here. >> and certainly, something

that trump, as you said, boasts about. he has said that he wants to connect the insurrection act to deal with protesters, and deport protesters in this country after protesting something that they disagree with him on. let me ask you, by this meeting, in terms of what it means for foreign policy right now. because when you kind of look at it, trump has been an opponent of supporting ukraine. he's consistently undermined and criticize efforts to pass u.s. aid packages. and orban is isolated among western european countries and leaders because of his close ties to putin. he doesn't share the same values and views on ukraine that the rest of western europe does. what kind of signal does this meeting send in particular to european users who are trying to aid ukraine -- vladimir putin? >> yeah. orban needs trump probably more than trump needs orban.

orban finally is becoming increasingly isolated within nato and within the eu. that you tolerated him far longer than i thought they should have. they finally figured out that he's going to try to extort them for everything he can, and in the end, he's still gonna support putin over liberal european values. >> barbara, i'm so sorry, i'm gonna have to jump in just to interrupt you and cut back to the breaking news that we've been promising to bring to our viewers. and that is the news out of washington, d.c.. the results are in, and as expected, in the republican primary, nikki haley is the projected winner of the district of columbia. 19 delegates awarded of 19. let's cross over to nbc news correspondent -- we have been expecting these results. they came in. you are in the room when they were announced. tell us a little bit about the reaction. >> so, it was a mixed reaction

here. there's a little bit of shock that we heard when the numbers financed. what we do know is nikki haley when 62%, or more than 62% of the vote here in the republican primary in washington, d.c.. now this was seen as nikki haley's best chance to pick up a win against former president trump. it's an urban area with a relatively high number of college educated voters, which has -- achilles strongest and most consistent democrats -- demographics so far. back in -- 2016, he came in a distant third decided demarco rubio. at least team tonight hopes to win -- momentum builder heading to super tuesday this week. >> brie, thank you for that update. let's bring in tara and joe walsh. i guess we were waiting for this result. we finally got the result. tara, your reaction to this

result? >> it doesn't matter. that's the reaction. >> no, i appreciate you giving us that. that's why i wanted to ask you. >> i'm just being honest. >> that's exactly what we want. >> i'm being honest. it doesn't matter. and like i said, it didn't matter for marco rubio in 2016, it's not gonna matter for nikki haley in 2024. they can use this as a talking point, a fleeting talking point, i guess. but come tuesday, when she gets blown out in the majority of the super tuesday states, you're going to see that there really is no longer a path for her as far as delegates. it's just going to wrap it up on tuesday, for the most part. so it's not easy. i guess she could say she won something, i guess. >> joe, give me your thoughts. no reaction to the victory, obviously, because i know that we all share the same sentiment, that this does not mean much. but if there was a silver lining for nikki haley about

winning the district of columbia, about the type of voters that there are in the washington area, certainly the district of columbia area, is there an argument to be made that there are those within the republican party of a certain background, of a certain demographic, that will not vote for donald trump? and is that something that can be exploited going down the road? dumping nikki haley, but by somebody else who wants to a marriage in the future of the republican party? >> yes. yes. but eamonn, here's my reaction. and here's all i'm thinking about right now. and this is what all of us should be thinking about right now. if the general election were held this tuesday between joe biden and donald trump, donald trump would win. and electorally, i don't think it would be close. so that's all i can think about. and that's all i'm focused on. and i think the whole dam country needs to wake up to this fact. the trump, right now, is waiting, and we've got eight

months to beat him. that's it. >> the alarm bells should definitely be going off for everybody in this country. >> really quick, ayman, just to answer your question, though, i agree with joe, 100%. we are some patio on that. but donald trump told us over the weekend in his rallies that there is no room in the republican party anymore for moderates. that it is maga only. he told people if they support nikki haley, he doesn't want them. so that should be something for the never trumper publicans, and those who are in the pro democracy states, like i am, and joe, and others, those voters to hear that in the five states that will matter electorally. why would they want to give their vote to a party that doesn't want them anymore? that needs to be something that needs to be hammered home. because those are the voters that are going to matter. >> and to your point, donald trump, over the weekend, saying that he wants to get rid of the romney's within the republican party. so he's making very clear about what kind of republican party he wants, and it's not you are or my republican party.

that's for sure. the one that we know. joe walsh, tara, i greatly appreciate it. thank you both of you. after a quick break, doctors nationwide voice to decide between honoring the law or honoring their hippocratic oath. their hippocratic oath. ava: i was just feeling sick. and it was the worst day.

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saint jude would not be able to do all of the exceptional work that they do. narrator: for just $19 a month, you'll help us continue the life-saving research and treatment these kids need. tiffany: no matter if it's a big business or just the grandmother that donates once a month, they are changing people's lives. and that's a big deal. narrator: join with your debit or credit card right now, and we'll send you this saint jude t-shirt that you can proudly wear to show your support. nicole: our family is forever grateful for donations big and small because it's completely changed our lives and it's given us a second chance. elizabeth stewart: saint jude's not going to stop until every single kid gets that chance to walk out of the doors of this hospital cancer-free. narrator: please, don't wait. call, go online, or scan the qr code below right now. [♪ music playing ♪]

after the supreme court overturned roe v. wade, republicans across the country wasted no time pushing through is extreme abortion bans. but as many lawmakers are quick to note, these bands aren't absolute. all state abortion restrictions currently in effect contain one combinate exception. allowing the procedure when the life of the mother is at risk. but what does that policy actually mean in practice? well, to start, the language of these exceptions differs from state to state, with some -- conditions that would constitute a medically necessary abortion like preeclampsia or atopic pregnancies. in other states, there is no

such clarification. that leaves doctors and hospitals to decide whether their patient is at risk enough to qualify for lifesaving abortions. but that decision, fortunately, isn't just a medical one. in post-roe america, doctors must also consider the legal implications of providing such care. in texas, for example, doctors who violate the states ban run the risk of life in prison, and fines up to $100,000. in some states, such as idaho, lawmakers there are embedding a, quote, affirmative defense approach into their laws, which means that doctors must prove a lack of wrongdoing before performing an abortion. as mary ziegler, -- put it, instead of the prosecutor trying to prove you aren't saving a life, the typical innocent until proven guilty, the defendant now has to prove that they were saving a life. there is now a presumption of guilt. and as you can imagine, this has created a legal and ethical

minefield first physicians. this week, -- pulled back the curtain and exposed how these bands are impacting the way patients receive care. under fight of possible prison time and professional ruin, physicians in states with -- personal interests pitting against their patients. many are overriding the expert training for factors that have nothing to do with medicine, like political perceptions and laws that aren't even qualified, they aren't even qualified to interpret. and in some cases, hospitals have turned over the decision- making to committees, or ethics panels, which are tasked with determining whether patients treatment falls in line with the law or not. dr. serhiy as munson, maternal fetal medical specialist at vanderbilt medical center -- the process her hospital has adopted post-roe, and before performing an abortion, a doctor must now receive an approval from a sixth person

panel made up of other positions at the hospital. last october, a particularly challenging case but came bid for that committee concerning a patient who was seven weeks pregnant and stable, but with a medical history that made delivery very high risk. the patient, already a mother and staring down the possibility of sepsis, and even death, requested an abortion, but there was a problem. there was no immediate risk to her life. the potential emergency which was required to justify the procedure under tennessee law would not occur until the baby was at full term. debates amongst the panel ensued, with one doctor concluding, which, i unfortunately don't think this meets the criteria for the law, in my interpretation, even though it is the ethical right thing to do. the group, unable to come to a conclusion, pointed the decision to another panel at the hospital. however, soon after, as munson learned that the patient was no

longer pregnant. perhaps it was a miscarriage, where she had gotten fed up and taken measures into our own hands. in this is hardly just a problem in fantasy. a recent review of two dallas hospitals found patients who are seeking abortions waited an average of nine days while doctors and lawyers assessed whether their medical conditions for life-threatening enough to qualify. during that time, these patients suffered serious complications, including hemorrhage and substance. another report found that across the country, these laws and their interpretations, quote, contributed to delays, worsened health outcomes, and increase the cost and logistic complexity of care. in several cases, patients suffered preventable in severe complications because clinicians reported that their hands were tied. now if you think this is all just an unfortunate oversight from well-meaning lawmakers trying to protect the sanctity of life, think again. back in january, bob ramsey, republican former tennessee state representative called out

his colleagues over their vague legislating, telling the new york times, quote, the confusion is actually content. the more confusing it is, the more likely there will be no abortion. that's a win for people who are opposed to abortion. a win. that's what antiabortion republicans call policies that lead physicians unable to provide proper care to their patients, and leave when fighting for their lives. see, for the republicans, the confucian and cruelty of their antiabortion agenda isn't just an unintended consequence. it is the point. next, a texas school cancel -- but at what cost? matthews mom, judy, is here with us. with us. takes you off course. put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid symptom relief and helped leave bathroom urgency behind.

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♪ ingrezza ♪ there is anger in texas over school's decision to cancel a play called the laramie project about the life and track it death of matthew shepard. sheppard, at 21-year-old college student in wyoming, was brutally murdered in 1998 because he was gay. the laramie project eased shepherds -- inclusion, talents, love, and the resilience of the lgbtq community. but that is not welcome in texas, it appears. number kaiser canceled it spring production of the play. a spokesperson for the district says they did it in order to

promote theater productions that would, quote, create much excitement from the community, like mary poppins and white christmas. with us now, judy shepard, the wife of matthew shepard -- president of the matthew shepard foundation. judy, it's great to have you on the program. i wish it was for better circumstances. but what is your reaction to temporary can sling the laramie project because it is just not as, quote, exciting as married poppins and white christmas? do you think they're really telling the truth here? >> they're not. i don't think they're telling the truth. it's texas, right? we know they are passing every kind of legislation possible to minimize, to discriminate against, and ultimately only what that does is promote hate against the gay community. particularly is damaging to young people. >> the fbi reports, judy, an alarming rise in lgbtq hate crimes is happening as a result

of all kinds of things, but specifically back in 2023, the data reveals a 14% increase in hate crimes based on sexual orientation, and striking 33% surge and hate crimes based on gender identity. where do you suspect is behind this alarming rise? >> i thought we were on a really good path until 2016. and then, we took a sharp turn to the right. rhetoric was free to be spoken against all of the marginalized communities, and states took advantage of it. many states decided this was their time to legislate against the lgbtq+ community, and their kids that are paying the price for it. it's a very scary situation. and alarming project, really, in reality, you remove mats sexuality from the play, and it is a play about religion, or race, it's a play about prejudice and bigotry and hate. >> what do you think matthew would make of the america that we see today? do you think the u.s. is

backsliding on the acceptance of lgbtq members as well as the rights of the community? >> definitely. matt would be horrified by what he's seeing now. it was bad enough in the 90s, but now, it's become, as my han spin puts it, open season on the community. hate crimes have gone up against all the marginalized communities. not just the gay community, but you know, we have justice on a side, in some places. the first trial in south carolina against -- was a success. we're making progress. but it's a slow, slow trail. we have so much ignorance and hate left behind. -- permissible to speak out in those terms now. >> how do we change that? how do you think we kind of make progress as a country, if you will? you talk about miseducation ignorance at their, but how do

we change what's and peoples hearts about this community and their feelings towards it? >> i would love them to start teaching lgbtq history and our schools. i feel like if you learn the history of the culture, and the people who are part of the lgbtq plus community threat -- it's been here forever, we just didn't have language to describe all of it. if we could learn about them, about the true african american history, true latino history, we can, in my mind, eliminate almost all prejudice and hate. it's all based on ignorance. things we don't understand, and things we just don't want to learn about. because it doesn't affect us directly. what people don't remember as it does affect them directly. everybody has someone that they love and care about in the gay community. they may not know it, but they do. >> i wanted to lastly, get your thoughts on the death of next benedict. a 16-year-old non-binary student in alabama. we don't know the cause of

death, but we do know they were bullied the day before the. -- as they mourn this loss? >> well, this way too many of this in this -- i don't know. violence against the community. i know nex was bullied. i've been reading about it a long time. and i don't think he's the only one in that school, and in the state of alabama, they have a particularly challenging instance because of the states schools superintendent. doesn't give anyone confidence to express their true solves, and to be free to be who they are. but it gives permission to those who want to believe them. i think there is no consequences. it's very disturbing. if you are her family, just hang on. just hang on. >> judy shepherd, thank you so much for your words, thank you for joining us. i greatly appreciate your time and your insights. >> thank you, ayman.

it was my pleasure. >> thank you for making time for us at home today. be sure to catch eamon each weekend starting at seven pm eastern. falls on x and instagram on ayman msnbc next weekend. that massage kathy griffin when she joins me from los angeles to talk about her new comedy tour, and donald trump's ongoing promise for -- until then, i'm ayman mohyeldin in new york. have a good night. new york. have a good night. an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain

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