has a willing audience in judge cannon. >> he does. almost. i'm giving you my opinion. >> yes, i understand that. the quest from trump's team sort of begins with all the reasons why judge cannon shouldn't really even schedule this before november but only if she has to, how about mid august? they give her a lot of runway to say, you could see the presidential immunity claim that we've launched in the mar- a-lago case, why don't you wait until the supreme court figures that all out? and not do anything until then? >> right. i do think, it's important to note he started by saying i still don't want the trial in 2024. but she had ordered that they give a trial date. so he actually gave a trial date. but it is the backup position. this is his ace in the hole. it's not so much the i don't want it in 2024 or okay my plan

b is august. he has made an immunity argument, the same argument that is made in d.c.. one minor difference. he wasn't president. his argument is, but i took the documents while i was president. i have said, that is like a bank robber saying you know, i legally got the gun that i used to rob the bank. >> right. i was a customer of the bank when they went in and took the money. >> everything is just such an irrelevancy. but he's got judge cannon and so the question is whether judge cannon will sit on that, whether she will grant it, or if she denies it and says but it's not a frivolous argument, meaning all of these delays of appeal that we have seen in the d.c. case, don trump is going to try that, of course. >> same road. back to the supreme court. >> it's much harder factual argument. but, that's not the issue. just remember, we were all

sitting here going, he's arguing that he can order s.e.a.l. team six to kill a political important opponent and we're going as absolutely laughable laughable. >> a novel defense. we need to weigh in on. that >> exactly. so i think he has many ways, even if he were to get that august deed to later push it aside. >> give me the over under on how optimistic you are about judge cannon? we sit here now and it's like the possibility is holding trump accountable seems to be shrinking. there is the alvin bragg case, which seems like that sort of full steam ahead, but everything else -- >> can i stop you there? >> please, stop me. >> here's the alvin bragg case. i'm not optimistic on the d.c. case in light of what happened yesterday. i wish i were. but i really am not. i'm not optimistic. in florida even though that one, if you look at it

rationally, that should be able to go before the election. it's the biggest open issue there, joe can, and we will have more data on this tomorrow. but then the parties are going to be heard by judge cannon and she either will saturday or at least give some inclination is to what she is thinking. >> the reality is also, there are so many reasons for delay here. even if you get to the point of scheduling the trial, finding an impartial jury in this is not going to be without its challenges. there are already fierce debates over the jury question. to believe the election was stolen is a question that jack smith would like have on a juror questionnaire. understandably trump's gonna fight them every tooth and nail. >> i have picked juries in high- profile matters. not as high-profile as this. but in the end run cases in the special counsel case. yes, it's a challenge, but it can happen. you're not looking for, and the law does not require, somebody who has never heard of the case. it would be impossible.

and also completely inconsistent with our history when we were much smaller and people knew lots of people who were participants in the trial. so it's just required that somebody is going to be able to say you know what, i mean i take my oath of office as a juror seriously and will decide this case based on the facts and the law. the biggest issue i see in that is the juror who wants on the jury. for either side. you don't want somebody sneaking on who is going to say they're gonna be fair and impartial but it's either gonna vote for the government or only vote for the defense. that's the biggest issue in this. people like i can't wait to get on the jury but there are people who are like how do i get off a jury for most people. >> it's a good thing neither one of these cases really stir public emotion. everybody's really very levelheaded about all of it. andrew weissmann, i'm going to say the harbinger of not great news but still a wonderful guest to have on the show.

very grateful for your time and. we have a lot more ahead tonight. president biden went to the border today. so donald trump. we'll get into those dueling trips and alternate realities. but first, trump is trying some creative and probably highly illegal strategies to avoid paying his bills. is anybody going to work? that's next. t.

>> there were a lot of warning signs. plenty of reasons why getting into business was donald trump was never going to end well for them. if there was one moment where they should have walked away with their dignity intact and kept their distance from donald trump forever, it was probably this one. >> andy. you just being pounded. on your being out debated. i just don't want somebody running one of my companies that's going to get beaten up so badly. your fired. and i just have to do this. i have no choice. wes, your fired also. >> and you latency and wes mosque, contestants on season two of the apprentice. both were fired by trump in dramatic boardroom scenes filled with melodramatic music

and a whole lot of reaction shots. but andy lewinsky lytton ski and wes moss did not learn their lesson. years later after munch trump became a twice impeached president and militants key and wes masse decided to go into business with him. and boy do they seem to regret it. these two former apprentice contestant's helped trump build his right wing twitter knock off social committee truth social. but now they are suing trump, claiming he's trying to cheat the motive that share of the company. who could've seen that coming? that lawsuit is not your typical where are they know reality tv story. the lawsuit from those two former apprentice stars is now getting in the way of trump's latest attempt to escape accountability. right now trump is on the hook for more than half 1 million dollars from the civil fraud and defamation lawsuits. at the same time, trump is in the middle of a big deal to try

and effectively sell that twitter knock off for billions of dollars, a company that andy lytinsky and wes moss helped trump create. a lot of people think trump could use the proceeds from that sale to pay his legal bills. that way he could avoid having to sell off his precious real estate holdings and get truth socials investors to cover the costs of his misdeeds. but now the washington reports that the lawsuit from those two former apprentice stars is throwing a wrench in the deal. it's delaying trump's access to those funds. which could be a real problem for donald trump, who sure seems, these days, like he does not have the money to pay the millions and millions in penalties that he owns. last week trump tried to get the courts to delay his 83 million dollar payment in e. jean carroll lawsuit. today carroll's attorney responded to that request for a delay saying he simply asks the

court to trust me and offers the court filing equivalent of a paper napkin, signed by the least trustworthy of borrowers. trump is also trying to delay paying his new york civil fraud payment. this week trump and his lawyers asked the judge to allow him to pay only 100 billion of the 450 million he owes in that case. yesterday the judge denied that request in a two line statement, telling trump's attorneys, you have failed to explain, much less justify, any basis for delaying the payment. in the course of that back and forth yesterday we learned about another possible attempt by trump to avoid paying the piper. and it is a real doozy. in a legal filing yesterday, new york attorney letitia james accused trump of quietly trying to move his assets to florida to avoid having them seized by the state of new york. coding for the new york

attorney generals office, after the court issued its february 16th order, defendants announced for the first time the various trump organization entities operating in new york are allegedly now located in florida. two of the companies that were part of that lawsuit, dj t holdings llc and dj t holdings managing member llc, have already been located in florida. as of 2023 both of those companies were still located in new york. so did trump move those companies to florida after the attorney general bought a lawsuit against trump and those companies? that would be one creative way to get out of paying any penalties in the case. and it sounds like the court was concerned that trump would do something exactly like that, which is why, at the very beginning of this case, the judge here barred trump from moving his assets out of the

state. now donald trump is doing everything in his power to avoid accountability in the civil and criminal trials, and yes, in some cases it is working. yesterday of course he managed to get the conservative majority on the supreme court to delay his case, and the d.c. election interference trial, well into the future. his georgia election interference cases have been stalled as well. we don't know what's happening in mar-a-lago. but the civil cases against trump, and one from the new york attorney general and from writer e. jean carroll, those have been the only cases so far where trump has really had to face justice. now he's making his last ditch efforts to avoid having to pay. the question is, will trump be able to escape accountability here as well? we'll talk about that, coming right up. right up.

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to keep san francisco moving in the right direction. please join me in voting yes on prop e. broke a lot of this. jose halle airy, reporter for the daily beast. thank you for joining me. if you could, can you explain the implications we have now in the timing about whether donald trump is, in fact, trying to move organizations that are subjects of this fraud trial

out of state to avoid having to pay penalties. can you talk about the evidence that is at hand? >> sure. like you said, all we know now is that they have these changes of addresses and the person who should be first to know would be barbara jones the former federal judge who is the monitor over the company. she has been babysitting the company for over a year now and this was exactly why she was put in place. justice and gordon, the trial judge, do this kind of thing could happen. that's why a little over a year ago he ordered the monitor to be put in place so that the trumps could not move assets out of the state which was a concern from the beginning and so with this change of address, we're seeing hints at that. we knew that donald trump feared having to pay this amount of money, and especially when he's going through such a big cash crunch now. let's remember, the $83 million he has to pay very quickly to e. jean carroll for losing the rape defamation case in january, it's coming to. and this is a really bad storm

for him. the fact that they've changed these addresses is certainly suspicious. the fact that they only alerted the court in a letter saying all by the way, these addresses are incorrect. that's sort of a back door way to get into this. it's why the 80 in newark is calling them out on this. what's interesting is going to be how far this goes because at this point trump's legal team asked to answer some serious questions from the judge and the appellate court isn't going to play this game either. they already issued a temporary stay so that this can be fought on appeal. but they chose not to hit the pause button on him paying this money. so at this point he's not in a position where he supposed to be moving assets. he's actually in a position where he needs to pay up real soon. and so we'll get answers pretty soon. but the fact that they did it this way, at this hour, after they were told to pay, is certainly raising red flags. >> yeah, i mean, kristy, what are the options here? legally speaking, if dj t

holdings, donald j trump holdings moves to florida and doesn't want to pay the bill, so to speak, what are the legal implications of that? what can be done? does rhonda santos have to step in? i'm kidding. >> again, these assets, if you can trace them, if you know where the money is, you can look to seize them. there are mechanisms in place to do that. the issue is, once it goes to florida, where else does? go to go overseas? is it changing entities again? once you start layering here, again, we don't know that he's doing that, but once you start moving and you are not making notifications, it makes it easier for those kinds of transactions to happen and be harder to trace the money and sees it if you need to. >> josi, the a.g. can say don't do this. the judge can say don't do this, but of don trump's gonna do it anyway, i would not sort of legal resource recourse exists? does he get slapped with more fines? does he what happens now if he's moving his businesses out

of state to avoid penalties? >> this could be a juicy conversation. the deadline is around the corner. sometime in mid march the easy can go and mask justice engoron for the ability to forcibly seize property he. can base properties elsewhere but trump tower stuck in manhattan. she can go about seizing that and, someone brought this up to me the other day, there are pounded fees that will be due if she has to get, for example, the sheriff involved. we didn't talk about the sheriff of new york city, where the sheriff would become involved and they can take up to 5% of the total. what's 5% of half a billion dollars with increasing interest every single day? there's no way you can truly escape this. and also it's a question as to whether he notes wants to suffer the embarrassment of having someone put a padlock on that tower. but realistically, though, he is running for president right now. he is under intense scrutiny. he is having to file disclosure

forms with the federal government about what he owns and where it is. and so when we did the story, one of the first things i looked at was, when did those addresses change? so i looked up the disclosure forms that he had filed, and those two entities always said they were in new york until, ding ding ding, curiously, sometime last year in august. they no longer listed an address. they just listed the assets. so he is under scrutiny. it's not like he can hide this stuff. he's going to have to reported to the federal government anyways he runs for office. and so we will all know where these things generally are. like i said, wall street in lower manhattan, that's not moving either. it's just a matter of time. what's interesting about the timing here is that this is all going to happen in mid march, when just as you recall, this is when the d.a.'s office in manhattan, the whole other long enforcement office, is going to drag him into court for the start of his criminal trial. the first one involving the former president.

he's got his hands full. he doesn't have the time or even the resources or even legal team to be playing these kinds of games at this juncture. >> kristy, when we talk about the bills being paid, jose makes a very quite obvious but i didn't give myself point that you can't move 40 wall street. a.g. genes concedes 40 wall street of it comes to it and if it's bad behavior is to that to grieve but i do wonder, it seems like he's trying to push off the liquidation of his real estate assets as the sort of plan b in all of this. there is this potential deal with his social media company that could come through and afford him maybe as much as four billion dollars. that doesn't happen until march 27th, i think at the earliest. the bill is due, i believe march 16th. and the bill is now 550 billion dollars. is there recourse, does he get a grace period in any of this? and if he does, how much does

bad behavior like moving assets to florida cut in on that grace period? >> right now he has got 30 days, which brings us to mid march. this is just so that he's able to appeal. that's all we're looking at right now is whether or not he needs to pay the money to be able to file his appeal, and there is no wiggle room there in the law. there is no, well, i get a grace period, well, i can give you part of, it i can pay you 25 cents on the dollar. no. you have to pay the full amount. actually have to pay more than the full amount. so yeah, there's no way for him to get out of this. if he wants to appeal, this is the deadline. he's got to meet. it >> do you think the attempt to stave off payment in the e. jean carroll case, first of all, i mean, robbie kaplan, eugene kaplan's lawyer call a field day calling him the least reliable, all this now can, i promise you i'm gonna pay it. no judges gonna take.

that is this just a delay tactic? it's hard to understand. >> in that case he didn't even put forth any evidence to say i want it secured at all. it's just i'm asking for a stay. and by the way, i'm not gonna provide any evidence about where my assets are, what kind of debt i. have any information about his finances when he was just convicted of financial fraud. >> he doesn't mention the 500 million dollar penalty he has to pay in his, i guess, statement of financial conditions. >> well, robbie kaplan made sure to mention that. >> it is just, i mean, the obfuscation and the tantrums, and yet, sometimes it works for him. we will see what happens. kristy greenberg, jose pagliery, think you both for your time. still ahead this evening, it was a tale of two cities. two border visits into starkly different visions for this country. which one will prevail in

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democrats agree. 100% more stain removal. conservative republican steve garvey is the wrong choice for the senate. ...our republican opponent here on this stage has voted for donald trump twice. mr. garvey, you voted for him twice... as your own man, what is your decision? garvey is wrong for california. but garvey's surging in the polls. fox news says garvey would be a boost to republican control of the senate. stop garvey. adam schiff for senate. i'm adam schiff, and i approve this message.

>> biden on thursday a cynical sikh political stunt by the president and frankly it is beyond disgraceful. we will be at the border with president trump on thursday. >> that was foxes sean hannity earlier this week, describing donald trump and president

biden's dueling border visits today. sean hannity is right. one of those visits really was a cynical political stunt. but it wasn't president biden's. this afternoon, trump toured the city of eagle pass, texas, and he was led by the texas national guard. meanwhile, at almost the exact same time, president biden towards brownsville texas accompanied by customs and border patrol agents were cpe. these tours may look similar, but there's one key difference. customs and border patrol is actually in charge of border security. the texas national guard, on the other hand, is not. so trump is effectively just cost playing here. when it came to actual speeches, trump and biden could not be more different. president biden talked about the need for more immigration dusters to clear the asylum backlog. he proposed more over time for cpp officers, machines to

defect fentanyl, and more bipartisan compromise. he talked about real tangible policy. he offered possible solutions. and then there was donald trump. >> the united states is being overrun by the biden migrant crime. it's a new form of vicious violation to our country. it's migrant crime. we call it bidens migrant crime. >> i should start to say these ended states's modern fight being overrun by migrant crime. migrants are actually much less likely to commit crimes than u.s. citizens are. but if you watch fox news these days, or if you listen to republicans, you would not know that. you would probably think quite the opposite. and not only does the right not seem to be worried about the impact this kind of scapegoating has on migrants, as it turns out conservatives don't actually want to fix anything when it comes to the border. remember back in january, just

two months ago, when republican speaker of the house mike johnson and 60 of his republican colleagues made their own track down to eagle pass. to remember that? they claimed they were there to demand legislative action on stricter border policies. and then just one month later, they tank that legislation all by themselves. they specifically killed their own bipartisan bill, because donald trump asked them to. because donald trump doesn't actually want the immigration system fixed. he wants it to be broken so that he can run on it. >> here's what i would say to mr. trump. set a planned policy -- set instead of telling members of prime members to block legislation. join me, or i'll join you, and telling congress to pass this bipartisan border security bill. we can do it together. you know and i know it's the toughest most efficient and most effective for security built this country has ever seen. so instead of playing politics with the issue, let's get

together and get it done. >> we're going to talk about what is actually happening in the border and what this all means in the november election, right after this break. this br

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for that murder. the resolution says the russian government and vladimir putin personally bare criminal and political responsibility for the death of their most prominent opponent, alexei navalny. the lawmakers also called for an independent in transparent international investigation into the circumstances of alexei navalny's death. alexei navalny's finally held in moscow tomorrow, but vladimir putin's government is trying to stop it. at first, beaver not allowed to rent a funeral haul to say goodbye to alexei. now, went just a funeral service is supposed to take place in a church, ritual agents tell us that not a single hers agrees to take the body there. unknown people call all teams and threaten them not to take alexei's bodies anywhere. that is from a navalny family spokesperson. alexei navalny's widow lula says she is worried larry prudence police will show up and arrest people at the funeral.

the associate press reported last week over three and people were detained in russia while paying tribute to opposition leader alexei navalny. in an op-ed piece in the new york times, our next guest, nadya tolokonnikova, wrote about the first time she saw alexei navalny at a protest in russia in 2007 when she was 16 years old. for the next 17 years, i watch my friend alexi rise from a moscow blogger to a global moral and political figure, giving hope and inspiration to people around the world. he helped me and millions of russians realize that our country does not have to belong to kgb agents and the kremlin's henchmen. he gave us something else as well, a vision he called the beautiful rush of the future. this vision is a mortal, unlike us humans, president lottery putin may have silenced alexei, who died last week, but no matter how hard he tries, mr. putin won't be able to kill

alexei's beautiful dream. years later, after nadya cofounded riot, she was arrested for singing a protest song in a church. she writes months later when my riot colleagues and i were on trial for supposedly inciting religious hatred there, standing in the courtroom among our family members and activists, was alexei. nadya was convicted in that trial and sentenced to prison. she wrote how is life in prison alexei i asked me on the phone in 2013. not ideal, but not too bad, i answered. one can survive here. alexei's team later told me that he recalled our conversation when he decided to go back to russia after his poisoning in 2020. it was a characteristically brief decision. from his return to his death, it was just three years. joining us now is nadya tolokonnikova, longtime friend

of alexei navalny an cofounding member of the russian protest art collective riot. nadya, bank you very much for joining us tonight. i know this is difficult for you. and i just want to begin by saying i'm very sorry for your loss. >> thank you, lawrence. >> when you write about your friend alexei in the new york times, we learned much about him and much about you and it's the story of two very brave people. but the way you write it, i know that you see only one brave person in that story. you see alexei navalny as uniquely brave among russian protest leaders. >> alexei navalny lead with love and joy. i think aside from bravery, this is a really important -- he was able to install this

vision of the beautiful russia of the future, not just with words, but with actions. and with his love to his country , and he was willing to sacrifice everything, including his own life, for this country. and we witnessed one of the most beautiful modern love stories of alexei navalny and his wife, yulia. and it's heartbreaking that putin murdered not just alexei but also this beautiful love story. >> you mentioned something about vladimir putin here that is soon as i read it it made perfect sense about part of his motivation in relation to alexei navalny. you see people say mr. putin feared alexei, but i think the reason he wanted to get rid of alexei was another emotion, a darker more sinister one. it was and the. as soon as i read, that it made perfect sense.

dictators know they are not really admired. they know that what they have is fear. they don't have envy. but your observation of that is so powerful in there, and it just seems so clear when you put it that way. >> alexei is everything, putin is not. he's handsome, loved, tall. he's actually followed by people because they trust him and they -- want to be his friend, who on earth would want to be putin's friend? >> can you -- i know for americans who aren't faced with this kind of life or death choice about how they express themselves politically in this country, can you explain to people why alexei navalny would go back to russia, knowing that this was something vladimir putin would want to do?

that when he goes back to russia, it is very likely that vladimir putin will at minimum get him in prison and kill him? >> alexei saw himself as a russian politician. he never wanted to leave the country. i never wanted to leave my country. i tell myself and see myself as a russian artist. we need to be on our land. and especially if you are a politician, you ask people to risk a lot. in a dictatorship, you ask them to leave their houses, go to streets, probably get beaten, probably thrown to jail. and you cannot morally do that if you speak from abroad. alexi knew it, and he was willing to risk. he also knew that his -- he has fantastic support and russia. i don't think people here see the scale of the support, because we don't really have real media, and also real polls

in russia. but i lived in russia until recently. and when you go to the shop, when you talk to taxi driver, a random person, if you bring up name of navalny, chances are they will say that if we would have actual elections i would support him. and slaughtering putin knew it. >> you write in your piece we owe it to alexei and his dream for a new beautiful russia to carry on the fight. it sounds like he will continue to be powerful even in death. >> he will, and we see it with all the rituals that the russian government does around alexei navalny's body. they are scared of him, even when he is dead. and it shows how -- this figure

is. and it is a very biblical story . it is funny that i was the one who was accused of religious hatred, thrown in jail, labor camps for two years . but i think in fact people who heard religious feelings more than anyone's putin, his bureaucrats and russian patriarch of the russian orthodox church. they did not let navalny's relatives and the people who loved him to say goodbye to alexei with dignity. >> nadya tolokonnikova, again, i'm very sorry for your loss, thank you very much for joining us tonight. thank you. we'll be right back. ank yo. we'll be right back. n't help due to burning and stabbing pain in my hands, so i use nervive. nervive's clinical dose of ala reduces nerve discomfort

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nadya tolokonnikova gets tonight's last word. the 11th