the supreme court? and if so, how? and what is your assessment of that? >> this really turned on a lot of questions of alabama state law, and alabama state constitutional law. so there may be a very limited path here. of course, this is going back to the lower court in alabama to determine whether or not the clinic is liable. but the seeds of this were already planted at the supreme court with the dobbs opinion, with justice alito writing that opinion, removing the question of abortion from the boards and sending it back to the states. i just want to emphasize for your listeners, you know, the court is up on the ballot and this election cycle. justice alito is in the 70s, justice thomas is in his 70s. if the republican president is elected they will be hello, my. you know what always shocks the conscience is beyond the sort of general ethical principles at stake here.

the political reality that republican families use ivf, republican women often have abortions -- >> many. >> this crosses partisan lines. and if anyone thinks this is going to be neatly divided between left and right, man, are they wrong. >> it's the opposite of that. the majority of people in this country probably support ivf. i've not seen data on this but they do support a woman's right to choose, so this is not a clear partisan issue at all. >> thank you, my friend. as always lovely to see you through the week. and thanks to you at home for joining me this hour. so one of fox news' biggest stories just blew up in its face. >> so this confidential human source if you're watching other networks you're not going to hear this story, so if you're just watching fox for the first time, we'll tell you what's happening in this story because the media has been ignoring this. >> a guy with impeccable credentials, a great track

record reported an allegation joe biden took a $5 million bribe right under barack obama's nose. >> the allegation was gigantic and fox news ran with it. "the washington post" philip blum said fox mentioned bribery more than 2,600 times last year. media matters counted sean hannity alone devoting at least 85 segments to this supposed scandal in the same time frame. republicans in the house launched an entire impeachment inquiry on this claim. a years worth of republican mudslinging has been based on one allegation on an fbi form called 1023 from one confidential human source. >> we have now the fd 1023, it's the fbi report prepared in 2020

when a confidential human source raised allegations joe biden as vice president personally received bribes. this fd 1023 is damning. >> even a trusted fbi informant has alleged a bribe to the biden family. >> the most corroborating evidence we have is that 1023 form from nice hilee credible confidential human source. >> the most corroborating evidence we have is from this highly credible confidential human source. last week the justice department arrested that confidential human source. his name is alexter smirnoff.

countless hours of tv accusations and smear campaigns, an entire congressional impeachment inquiry all based on what the justice department now says were lies. but this story does not end there. it gets so, so much worse. because according to a new pretrial filing from the department of justice when this confidential source was interrogated after his arrest last week, he told the fbi he has been getting his information from russian intelligence officers. so to recap quickly, the basis of the republican impeachment investigation against president biden and a year's worth of one of fox news' biggest anti-biden stories were just lies from a guy the department of justice now claims is a russian intelligence asset. and according to the justice department until he was arrested last week, his plan was to keep poisoning our nation's political

well with more lies passed to him by the russian government. smirnov's efforts to spread misinformation about candidate of one of the two major parties in the united states continues. he is actively pedaling new lies that could impact u.s. elections after meeting russian intelligence officials in november. that selection interference. if what the department of justice is alleging here is true, the russian government is actively interfering in the 2024 election to try to help donald trump get elected. and russia potentially played republican elected officials and by the way fox news like a fiddle in order to do so. what makes all of this all the more alarming is that this is not the first time this has happened. these are photos of rudy giuliani, then trump's personal attorney with his main source

when he made corruption allegations against joe and hunter biden in the 2020 election. and in 2020 the u.s. treasury department sanctioned him. the department put him on a list of russian linked election interference actors and said he was an active russian agent for over a decade. and this wasn't joe biden's treasury department. this was donald trump's. this was secretary of the treasury steve mnuchin from at least late 2019 through mid-2020 derkach waged a covert influence campaign focused on cultivating false. steve humnuchin's treasury department described it as foreign interference in an

attempt to undermine the upcoming 2020 u.s. presidential election. so in 2020 the mark was rudy giuliani. in 2024, it looks like its congressman jim jordan and james comer. twice now republicans have become witting or unwitting useful idiots, spreading lies about joe biden to hurt his chances in the presidential election never minding what happens to this country in the process. joining me now is new york congressman dan goldman, member of the house oversight committee. he served as lead counsel in the first impeachment of donald trump. congressman goldman, thank you for being here. i'd first like to get, you know, your assessment of how much this reporting has dimmed the republican fervor to impeach the president or just how it's landed among your fellow colleagues on the hill. >> well, i think many of our -- my colleagues on the democratic

side are -- are shocked but not surprised because it is once again every election it seems the republicans fall in favor with the russians and are used either as you said wittingly or unwittingly by russian intelligence to try to interfere in the election. you'll remember in 2016 donald trump says russia, if you're listening find hillary clinton's e-mails. five hours later they searched for them and fished them and hacked them and got them. the muller report said that paul manafort, the campaign chair prn for donald trump's campaign was providing information to a russian intelligence agent and that the campaign was welcoming the russian interference. now we learn that there is a whole new scheme from 2020

originally i suspect to interfere in the 2020 election in favor of donald trump, which is when this confidential source provided this information to the fbi. it is now coming out in 2024 because as you point out correctly republican members of congress are once again witting or unwitting agents of russian intelligence pedaling a false narrative that is russian disinformation in an effort to interfere in the election and boost donald trump. it is shocking. it is shocking that eight years later we are still dealing are russian interference, and the republican party is still welcoming it and facilitating it. >> i guess i wonder if you think they care? on one hand you'd think after years and years of this republicans would be somewhat skeptical when given a plum

piece of information that oh, just conveniently undermines the biden presidential efforts. it seems if it's a means to republican ends which is to get trump back into power or power themselves who cares where the information or disinformation is from. do you think it matters to them they may be unwittingly employed by fsb to suit russia's needs as well as their own? >> i don't. and i've been dealing with it for this entire congress. the entire weaponization subcommittee that jim jordan runs is designed to undermine enforcement against disinformation that could interfere with our elections. that is the whole purpose of that committee is to have a chilling effect on law enforcement or other government agencies that are trying to stop russian interference. this is their m. o. they will do whatever they can. and do they knew it was false. it was fully debunked in the

impeachment investigation i led in 2019 by witness after witness who was in ukraine at the time or in the state department or national security council. these were trump administration officials who all said that what joe biden did related to the prosecutor general in ukraine was consistent with official u.s. policy and all of the western world, and that it was bad for burisma, hunter biden's company. yet they get this uncorroborated 1023 form from the fbi and hold it up as the best example, the best evidence that they have. but i'll tell you one way, alex, that they may be chilled. and that is now that they know this information was funneled through russian intelligence, through the fbi by russian intelligence and is part of a russian disinformation scheme to interfere in our election, if they continue with this investigation, they are opening themselves up to a criminal investigation for conspiring with russia to interfere in the

election. that may be the only thing that keeps them from going forward. >> let me just follow up on that. do you think that there's an appetite inside the department of justice to look into this on that level? >> i don't know. david weiss, the special counsel, is the one who pursued this case against the confidential source. you'll recall this information was provided by bill barr to a u.s. attorney in pittsburgh to evaluate it. he then passed it over to special counsel weiss who's the one handling the hunter biden investigation, and now we see that special counsel weiss fully investigated this. and if mr. smirnov is remanded and it's being appealed right now and if he cooperates, who knows where this may lead. he may have more information. and i suspect the special

counsel may just follow the evidence wherever it leads. there's no question now. they know. they know this is russian intelligence disinformation that is designed to interfere in our election. if they continue with this investigation that helps russia do just that, that is conspiracy to interfere in our election. >> just permit me a moment to absorb the sort of potential irony of the situation here. this what is being termed the investigation into hunter biden that has yet to turn -- i mean people have various assessments of the merits of all that, but that could make a u-turn and come right back to end up investigating the very republicans who have been so zealous and interested in prosecuting hunter biden. is that what you're saying here? >> yes. and it goes even further than

that because house republicans have taken responsibility and honor in their effort to interfere in hunter biden's criminal case and to blow up the plea agreement. and the only reason that this investigation is continuing or at least one significant reason is because that plea agreement fell through. yes, the irony is if this investigation ultimately continued only because of their efforts to interfere in it and then it comes back onto them. look, we're far away from that point. i don't want to, you know, make any assumptions or speculation that there is any evidence of criminal wrongdoing. the point that i am trying to make, though, is that we now know there's a plausible claim they didn't know this was russian intelligence information. i would like to know whether they did or didn't, and i hope special counsel weiss does do that investigation. but regardless right now they know, and if they continue to push forward with what is russian intelligence disinformation clearly designed to help trump in this upcoming

election, then they are complicit in spreading this disinformation. >> congressman dan goldman, hunter biden returns to the hill i believe next week to testify behind closed doors of the house overnight committee, we'll be checking in with you again soon. thanks for your time, sir. >> thank you. coming up testicle kicking, chair slamming, a broken rib. republican in fighting in one key battleground state has taken othen characteristics of a bar brawl. can democrats take advantage before a pint glass hits them in the face? but first donald trump warps reality by telling fox news viewers he didn't actually have to hand over the classified documents he hoarded down at mar-a-lago, as his lawyers mount a kitchen sink defense in a bid to white house else delay his trial. the legal woes coming up next. e trial. the legal woes coming up next.

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they requested them. you could have handed them over, saved yourself a lot of trouble. >> first of all, i didn't have to hand them over. but second of all, i would have done that. we were talking and all of a sudden they raided mar-a-lago. we showed them where they were. >> this week donald trump sat down with fox news and asserted he did not have to hand over the classified documents that were squirrelled away at mar-a-lago, which was wrong. and now trump's legal team is throwing the kitchen sink at the judge in this case in an effort to delay it from going to trial before the election and maybe forever. in a midnight filing last night trump's lawyers said they plan to methodically challenge every facet of special counsel jack smith's case including claiming presidential immunity despite the fact trump was not actually president when any of this happened. joining me now to discuss all of

this is former fbi general counsel andrew weissman. thank you both for being here. andrew, first of all, am i living in the twilight zone in worrying we're going to see this whole presidential immunity saga playing out in the election interference case. is it possible we'll have another presidential immunity defense saga playing out in the florida courts and the florida district appeals courts? >> it is possible donald trump will raise it there, but for the obvious reason that he was not president when this happened, even with a judge who many people think has not only her thumb on the scale but her hand orforearm -- >> she's throwing herself on the scale. >> exactly. even she i do not think is going to go down that road. she has many, many ways to

continue delaying this case, and that, you know, with what she is doing now is really just a question of essentially having a pocket veto in the case by not scheduling the trial. i do not think one of the things she'll do, though, is say there's presidential immunity. if not because it's just so legally wrong, because she's clearly made a legally wrong decision and been reversed twice. but if you want to get removed from the case -- >> that's a surefire. >> exactly. she's smart enough to know don't make that mistake. >> we think. i think everything needs a caveat. does it feel to you jack smith is kind of teeing up an appeal to the 11th circuit or to the higher powers to get judge cannon removed from this case? she made a decision i believe it was february 6th to unseal the identities of 24 potential witnesses. against the intraetys of the

special counsel. the special counsel is going back and saying you made an error, please reconsider this. is this a longer bid to have a paper trail to get her taken off the case? >> i think for jack smith and his team, the proxy objective at any given moment is to just have this case moving forward and trial if possible. i don't know what's in his head. they have sort of a long game get it up to the court of appeals and have it removed, that would be a pretty aggressive move. they're clearly getting frustrated. these decisions she's handing down and now with the disclosure of the identities of these witnesses are very problematic and understandably frustrating to them. and i think jack smith is right, i think she did get the law wrong on the recent issue he's teed up concerning the disclosure, so i don't know if we'll end up there. that'll be a very bold move, but she's making a lot of steps here that are rightly frustrating. >> the special master thing that was one issue. this is the unsealing information and the identities

of sources that could put their lives at peril, andrew. >> yes, so i think that this is the kind of issue -- i'm just putting myself in their shoes, it reminds me of the issue why they had to do the search at mar-a-lago. if you know there's highly sensitive classified information, you're not thinking about a criminal case. you're thinking about why you are in government, which it is to protect our national security. this is similar. if there are witnesses whose identities are going to be disclosed either prematurely or in many cases needlessly, that's what jack smith is saying, you have to appeal. this is not one where you say, oh, well we lost, but who cares about the risk? the risk is to civilians, that is why jack smith is in office. that is why that team's career people, they will appeal that. i think that the best hope for why cannon will reverse herself on this is because she does not

want to get slapped down again. i agree completely with him that legally she's dead wrong. >> tat is humiliating to be clear to reverse. it's not the appeals court said you were wrong. she literally has to say you know the thing i decided a month ago i was wrong, and you were right. >> that does happen. and i would say this would be the third time this has happened. as a friend of mine who's a judge said after the first two -- it is in a case this high profile to get it wrong so many times. and it's always wrong for trump. even handedly you're showing you're not ready for prime time. this is really as i said looking very skewed. >> i would love to get your thoughts on what's happening with the trial date here, right? she has i think it's a march 1st hearing to basically decide whether the may 20th trial date moves or not. why hasn't she moved it yet?

because it seems like that's also creating chaos just given the uncertainty around the federal election interference case. no date has been put on the calender for that, but presumably that's going to happen if it happens maybe in may, june. so aileen cannon holding this trial date seems to be problematic on a number of levels. >> this is a different type of case because it's so high profile. it seems quite apparent to me she does not anticipate this trial occurring before november, is not really interested in it happening in november, which means it could never happen if trump is re-elected, so they're on a very tight time line here. i'm not so sure that the may date is necessarily crowding any of the other cases out just given where they are themselves located, but i do understand why people are anxious to see some sort of real calender date on this case. >> do you think that that's --

first of all, she makes this decision for pretrial motions. trump actually, his team wants to consolidate all of their motions into one -- i'm really paraphrasing here, into one document effectively, and she says, no, you need to find them individually, which means smith in turn needs to file response. just creating a lot of -- i'm not going to say busywork but it's a lot of stuff to go through. >> at the very least it shows the experience. it really is saying, by the way, i don't want one consolidated brief addressing everything, and she actually said i want you to take lots and lots of pages to address each thing. no serious judge who's experienced does that. i have a cynical take on the trial date, which i think judge cannon was trying to use it as a blocker, meaning that it was sitting there as a date chat she had set, so it put restrictions on where other people could move. what i find interesting it's so

interesting there's no way that trial is happening that i think both judge chutkan and the new york judge are like, we're not even going to take it seriously because it's so obvious. >> nobody even talks about it poelksy even interfering with the alvin bragg case, right? >> exactly. people are just like we know that's not happening. in fact, donald trump's own lawyers are saying the trial can't possibly go. to the extent she was trying to use it as a blocker, everyone in the system knows that's not happening. >> when we talk about the sort of political influence or politics influencing court decisions, i do need to bring up for your thoughts this bizarre series of events that's taken place in arizona. the attorney general of maricopa county, rachel mitchell, is refusing to extradite a man who murdered a woman in a manhattan hotel room because she is -- she says she cannot trust manhattan d.a. alvin bragg to prosecute

the case. this seems like the after effect of the bragg indictment of donald trump, per chance. and i wonder what you make of it in terms of sort of new line in the sand as it concerns the courts, the prosecutors, and the attorneys general in this country. >> certainly agree the republicans seem to enjoy taking these swipes and shots to alvin. it's not a good idea. my question for this person who's made this decision is whether it works both way. so if someone commits a murder in arizona and they go to new york and car jack, does alvin now get to say -- alvin bragg get to say we're holding onto him until we resolve our case which may be in new york courts, and we don't care about your murder case, we don't extradite this person for you? it sets off a bad precedent and i hope they're able to work something out. >> it's not a good precedent, andrew. >> it is the insidious effect of sort of trump and acolytes to

see this so clearly partisan issue affecting something like this. and by the way, they need to get their stories straight in alvin bragg. it's that he's weak on crime but he's actually prosecuting donald trump. and as alvin bragg's office has said the murder rate has actually gone down. they can actually walk and chew gum because they can prosecute white collar crime in donald trump and they can prosecute murder. to see someone do this in law enforcement it's beyond disheartening. this is exactly what you're in office not to do. >> breaking the law should be something held as a universal -- breaking the law should be guidance -- prosecuting those who have broken the law should be guidance for all attorneys general no matter what states they reside in. thank you both for joining me on set. much more ahead this evening including chaos in michigan's republican party. what a year of infighting, which quite literally included chair slamming and a broken rib, what

that means for michigan's republican primary election next week. but first, the shocking ruling out of alabama that could effectively end invitro fertilization in that state and others. o fertilization in that state and others

okay, try to guess where this is from. even before birth all human beings bear the image of god and

their lives cannot be destroyed without a facing his glory. if you guessed the bible you guessed wrong. that statement was written last week by alabama state supreme court chief justice tom parker. it was part of his conquering opinion ruling that the frozen embryos of ivf patients should be considered children. and disposing of one can be considered a wrongful death. that decision has sparked confusion and outrage and panic among people who really want to be parents and might need the help of invitro fertilization to become ones. and not just in alabama. liberty counsel, a conservative christian litigation group, has asked the florida supreme court to consider alabama's ivf decision before ruling on a pending ballot measure that would codify abortion access in florida. and it seems like liberty council might have a supporter

on the florida bench. in a hearing earlier this month florida chief justice carlos mui floated the idea of fetal personhood, they haven't taken a position on whether the supreme court protects an unborn child at any stage of pregnancy. joining me now coauthor of notorious rbg, the life and times of ruth bader ginsburg. thank you for being here tonight and helping me make sense of this. to you think what we're witnessing in realtime here is potentially the death knell of ivf in red states across america much like abortion access? >> it certainly looks like it's headed that way in alabama. but i want to step back for a second. in 2011 i went to mississippi to cover -- one of the most conservative states very similar to alabama. failed because people pointed out fetal personhood would naturally lead to restricting ivf. and there were enough people in

the state who voted against and rebelled against that. alabama has been on this track to embrace fetal person hood from the very beginning where and they did it in ways that did not capture attention the way people who can afford ivf can. so they first started prosecuting people who can use drugs. the alabama supreme court said ten years ago you can charge pregnant people with chemical endangerment and that fetuses were children. and they separately said even before roe v. wade that alabama's constitution protected fetuses and embryos as persons. there's some incoherence here. there's also this state lawmaker who said, no, this doesn't cover the embryo in the lab because it's not inside a woman. so there's still some part of the movement that hasn't quite figured out what it wants to do with respect to ivf, which is

enormously popular and helps people build their family in a circumstance. it seems like the wing that asended right now is this solutist, you mention the concurrence fetal person hood above all once considered marginal has become extremely powerful. and so when it was people who used drugs or alabama even had somebody -- even appointed a lawyer for a fetus when a teen was seeking a judicial bypass for an abortion. so when it was the abortion patient, when it was the drug user, then it was the woman who had the miscarriage, now it's the family who would like to have more children. it is really a question fundamentally of reproductive control that is affecting people in all different circumstances and decisions of pregnancy. >> yeah, well, and i would assume that reality of who this affects, first of all, people that actively want to have children, right, which is not necessarily the case when you're talking about abortion, but this is all people who want to procreate, many of them wealthy

and i'm sure many prorepublicans. some of them are not wealthy, but the fact is when you're talking about constituencies, i'm having a hard time understanding i'm setting the morals and ethics for a moment but just politically how this is advantageous for conservatives to run on. >> it's not unheard of for states to restrict ivf. it was done in italy, done in poland. it's not popular and didn't last. it needs to be seen in the context of even though it's fundamentally irrational -- some people said it's ironic. they're willing to enshrine into law, even prevent babies from being born in order to prove a point of ultimately a religious point about the value of a frozen embryo being above the desires of living people on this earth. >> i think according to "the washington post" at least 11 states have broadly defined person hood beginning at

fertilization and those states include alabama, mississippi -- do you see what's happening as a template for those states that want to aggressively pursue? >> that certainly seems the case. you and i talked about before in a way even pro-choice advocates are surprised how restricting abortion has been in these states. all day i've been getting freaking out text messages from people i don't usually hear from like is this for real, is this going to stand? it gets people's attention. it's a moment to look at all the interconnections here between people seeing their reproductive freedom restricted regardless of what kind of outcome they want for their pregnancy. i do think even though ivf is unfortunately not available, not accessible, not affordable to people who would like to use it to treat infurt, i do think it does command attention in a way

that hadn't before roe v. wade was overturned. >> thank you so much for your essential reporting on all of this. it's great to have you on the show tonight. >> thank you. still to come this evening, the republican party in michigan is in the middle of a melt down. what all of the fighting including reported fistfighting means for democratic hopes this november. that is coming up next. this november that is coming up next

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there have been plenty of headlines in recent week announcing democrats have a problem in the state of michigan when it comes to the 2024 election. while, yes, it is true president biden has some real work ahead of him in that state particularly with the state's arab american voters, there is another side to the michigan story that has gone largely overlooked. for all the issues michigan democrats are facing, the michigan republican party appears to be collapsing in on itself like a souffle. it started last year when michigan republicans kroez christina kuramo to be the new head of the michigan state republican party. kuramo who's a vocal election denier who'd just lost the race for michigan secretary of state and never conceded. connection, possible so. but michigan republicans decided to put ms. kuramo in charge of

their party anyway, and then they immediately started fighting about it, literally. that spring not one but two consecutive meetings of the michigan republican party broke into physical altercations, one of which involved testicle kicking, chair slamming, and a broken rib. after ms. caramo's first year as chair the republican party is in dire financial straights. that's led to accusations she's misused party funds. a faction of the party voted to oust her. they elect adnew party chair. the only problem was that christina caramo is an election denier and election deniers do not admit defeat or concede power. that's kind of their whole stick they ended up with two competing

party websites both declaring a different person to be the party's official chair. last week the national republican party stepped in and officially recognized the new chair over christina curamo. but christina curamo is still not admitting defeat. that's the crazy thing about election deniers. caramo called it sabotage and discriminatory. she called the republicans who voted to oust her. in addition to the party's social media accounts christina kuramo reportedly still has control of the party's bank accounts and assets. and now this all about to interfere in the republican primary in the state. to be clear this was already going toby a confusing year in michigan republican politics because of complicated calender

shenanigans which i literally don't have time to get into right now. michigan is holding both a republican primary and a republican caucus convention this year. the primary is set to take place on february 27th, and the caucus convention is set to take place four days later on march 2nd. now, if you're wondering what's a caucus convention, you can sort of think of it like the iowa caucuses, but instead of having caucus sites across the whole state, the whole thing will be held in one place. or at least that was supposed to be how it worked because now the two factions of the michigan republican party are holding two separate caucus conventions in two separate cities, each one claiming to be the official republican caucus. so that means there will be one republican primary and two republican caucus conventions this year, which is i mean, hey, why not? it's not like michigan is going to be an important battleground state this year. republicans really need to have all their ducks in a row.

wait a second, obama white house and clinton campaign veteran jen palmieri joins me to discuss all of this coming up next, and what could possibly go wrong? , and wt could possibly go wrong?

a new poll out today from the battleground state of michigan shows donald trump leading president biden by 4 points. but when that same poll asks voters how they would vote if donald trump were convicted of a crime before election day, well, the race is dead even. so trump's trials do matter in this election, but there are a lot of other external factors that will determine this race in a state like michigan, whether it's biden's support for the war in gaza and its effect on the state's arab american community or the absolute goat rodeo happening inside the state's republican party. of the known unknown here which party as the advantage? joining me now is jennifer palmieri, former communications director for both the obama white house and hillary clinton's 2016 campaign. she's also the co-host of

msnbc's how to win in 2024 podcast. jen, first of all, the saga, the comedy of errors i'll call it inside the michigan republican party, you wouldn't believe it if someone told you it was -- i mean i'm making no sense here. it's not to be believed i guess is the short hand here. >> and you and i will -- yeah, we covered this, you know, in '22. it was just starting, you know, when we were at the circus, the craziness on the republican side was just starting. >> my question to you is from an organizing standpoint. how much does it matter that the party apparatus in that state, which is a key state in 2024 is in shambles? like what is the meaningful impact of that from just a campaign perspective? >> yeah, it matters. and democrats have gotten really good at winning the statement in michigan, right? gretchen whitmer won by 10 points, they quit the state

legislature. it's easy to vote in michigan right now. they reinstated early voting a few years ago. there's lots of ways to do it, so that means organization is key. it's not just demoralizing with the michigan republican party -- the michigan republican party gave us gerald ford, right, and this is what it's come to. but it is organizing that state particularly when they have so many options for voting, it's a big deal. so it really -- and that race is going to be super close. the biden-trump race in michigan is going to be very close. and not to lose your edge on organizing is not a small matter. it's a big deal. >> what do you make of the sort of loss of support that president biden has seen among the arab american community in michigan? i mean i know that the biden white house is sort of changing its position somewhat or at least its posture as it pertains to israel, prime minister

netanyahu, and the war more broadly. but i do wonder with 29,000 people dead in gaza, whether that damage can even begin to be undone. dead bodies are just not something you can unmessage. >> right. certainly everyone understands what the situation is and the white house understands what the situation is globally and in terms of gaza and israel, and we all know the steps that they are taking with the israeli government. they also understand the political impacts in michigan. they've sent a lot in to talk to the arab american community in michigan. i know congresswoman rashida tlaib is recommending next tuesday people vote committed, and that could give the biden team a sense how bad the problem is. they went to michigan recently,

they were bracing for protesters. it didn't really materialize. you're still sort of uncertain how when there's an existential threat in our own country, how that might play out in michigan. people are concerned about gaza, but are they also concerned about america? like i said before, though, the margin of victory in michigan is going to be very close, so it -- it's a very legitimate concern to worry about what's going to happen there with american votes in that state. >> it seems really clear the white house believes they have an issue with the border. there's reporting the president may pursue hard line immigration policy through executive order, and i wonder as a matter of strategy, jen, whether that helps to neutralize the issue, or does it increase its salience at the time when the majority ofswi state voters believe donald trump will handle the border issue 20 -- by 20 points in every swing state compared to president biden. >> yeah, it's -- his -- i think

the way i would look at immigration for biden is it is another opportunity to show that you have confidence, that you're trying to solve problems and that the republicans are not. so trump is always going to have an advantage over biden in managing the border because immigration is his core issue. and even though he didn't manage the border well when he was president, it's his core issue. i think what bidesen can to, and this is partly what tom sauzy did in long island is making it about republicans not wanting to solve problems. if the president does executive action on the border, i tried to get legislation passed and they won't do it and i'm trying to solve this problem. >> jennifer palmieri, my friend, thank you for joining me tonight. really appreciate your time. that is our show for this evening. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up