would look at immigration for biden, it's another opportunity to show that you have confidence, that you are trying to solve problems and the republicans are not, right? trump is always going to have biden in age over n, managing the border because immigration is his core issue. and even though he didn't manage the border well when he was president, it's his hocore issue. but what biden can do is partly what tom suozzi did in long island, make it about republicans not wanting to solve problems. the president guns and executive action on the border, he is showing that i'm trying to get a legislation passed, but it didn't ndicpass because trump -- and you make it a larger issue. >> jennifer palmieri, my friend, thank you for joining me tonight, i k appreciate your time. that is our show for this evening, now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, alex. we have tremaine lee joining us here at the end of the hour, that's what we have to look forward to. >> i will be looking for to it v as well.

>> thanks, alex. >> tonight president biden is walking into a fund raiser in san francisco right about now where he will continue scto bui his big lead over donald trump in campaign fundraising. before the president left for california yesterday, this was the second single most childish question the white house press corps delivered. >> mr. president, good afternoon, sir, you're going to california is this about coming for a plan b for 2024, does gavin need to stand by? >> are you ready? >> yes. >> i'm looking at you -- when i came to tell >>you was, i told you we would be announcing sanctions on russia, we will have a major package announced friday, i'll be happy to sit with you all in doing that. >> who would you rather challenge in november, nikki

haley or donald trump? >> i don't care. >> and they don't care, they don't care, that joe biden just described the serious work that he is doing in the oval office behind closed doors developing a new package oof sanctions against russia for vladimir putin's assassination of putin's political opponent, alexei navalny. they don't care, they are horse race reporters in the r presidential campaign. you can rely on them to waste an opportunity to talk to the president of the united states about the actual work that he does and instead come up with wiseguy questions like does gavin need to stand by? that's a reference, of course, to california governor gavin newsom who couldn't be more strongly supporting biden's reelection campaign -- on ifho

presidential campaigns whose voices are heard on a variety of non political shows, and podcasts, they don't understand where we are in the presidential campaign. the short answer to where we are in ththe presidential campaign is that we are in the fourth quarter of the o presidential campaign. the truth is the presidential campaigns are four years long. the news media doesn't begin covering them until the third year of the campaign, we are now in the fourth year of the campaign. when donald trump was inaugurated as the president of the united states on january 20th 2017, the other thing he did that very day was file his candidacy papers for reelection. so, if you think of a presidential campaign as a long plane flight over say the atlantic ocean, the plane is now somewhere over the north atlantic, but approaching

island. it's not the time for someone to decide that the pilot who has flown the plane before, successfully, should be pulled out of the cockpit because he is too old, and some passenger named gavin, who has never flown one of these planes, should take over. gavin newsom has never been a presidential candidate in a presidential campaign. he has no idea what it's like, but he understands enough about presidential campaigns and how they work to know that it is way too late for the democrats to change candidates. bob costas the brilliant sports analyst said recently that joe biden should drop out of the race, and he added that he has been saying that for four years. four years ago, it was the time to say it. three years ago was the time to say it. but it has been too late for a long time. and if joe biden announced, two or three years ago, that he

wasn't going to run for reelection, he would have been the most pathetic, lame duck president you had ever seen who didn't accomplish anything, nothing! because congress could have and would have completely ignored him. everyone who says joe biden should drop out, and for the purposes of this discussion i am only referring to othe peop who want the democrats to win, every one of those people who say joe biden should ocdrop out must now say exactly who the nominee should be, and none of them do. none of them say that. some of them suggest a long string of names of possibilities, that list always includes gavin newsom, so you would think that in their articles, and comments, podcasts, tv that they would show you all of those polls where gavin newsom polls better than biden against donald trump. there must be so many of these polls. but there anaren't any.

the most recent poll substituting other democratic names for biden bsagainst donal trump included only vice president kamala harris and gavin newsom. it's a poll that is rinow ten days old, donald trump was polling at 45, against joe biden at 44. substituting kamala harris as the candidate proves the result that donald trump pulls at 46, against kamala harris at 43. substituting newsom's name produces worse result with trump pulling out 46 and newsom you some polling are 36. 36. gavin newsom might not know how to run a presidential campaign, but he knows how to read polls. you would think, with the way the media obsessed n over every poll it can find that they would have noticed these polls. and how does today's poll fit in the biden strategy, a

national poll shows joe biden at 49, and on trump at 45. i mentioned the polls not because i have great faith in polls at this stage of the campaign, but just to point out the challenge you l n pohave if want to argue that the democratic nominee for president should not be joe biden, there is no substitute candidate who polls better than joe biden. now, assuming you still believe in gavin newsome, even though he is pulling ten points behinde donald trump, you must then explain how your choice of nominee s gets the nomination. the more thoughtful dump-biden proponents have recently try to work their way through, the maze of how someone other than joe biden, can be nominated for the president in the medemocrat party. they all rely on joe biden, first of all, releasing all of his delegates at the convention on monday august 19th. they all assume that the delegates who have showed up for the convention, deat least 90% of whom will fobe biden delegates, maybe more, will

then easily agree on gavin use some. you certainly get the feeling that most people who want to dump joe biden also opwant to dump kamala harris from the ticket. they don't seem to fear what would happen, among onthe key voting demographic, who delivered the presidency to joe biden and the vice presidency to kamala harris. black women voters. one thoughtful essay about the process reminded us that this is the way abraham lincoln was chosen at the republican convention in 1860. it took three long ballots to nominate abraham lincoln, you can expect the balloting brat t democratic convention in august to take at least three ballots, maybe more, and you can imagine what the press would say about the democrats struggling to e nominate a candidate and how much disarray they would figure into their reporting. you can hope that it is not a

rerun of the 1924 democratic convention in new york city, when it took 103 ballots to nominate john davis, who went on to lose to calvin coolidge. that democratic convention lasted from june 24th to july 9th. two weeks to get a nominee. a nominee who would lose. the last time the democrats nominated a presidential candidate that way, he lost to republican atrichard nixon. this is what that convention looked like in 1968 in chicago where there was violence in that convention hall and days of violence outside the convention hall, aywhich was later described as a riot by the chicago police against peaceful protesters by a commission efthat investigated the riots at the 1968 democratic convention, which ended up nominating vice

president hubert humphrey, who then, went on to lose because that's what happens after violent conventions like that. the democratic convention in chicago is in chicago again this year, and as it happens the magic number of delegates for winning o athe presidentia nomination is 1968. 1968. there are going to be protesters, there always are. usually they are nonviolent, this year there e yswill definitely be protesters supporting israel, and there will definitely be protesters supporting palestinians. the television cameras will be trained on those protesters more than on delegates. the longer the convention goes on, trying to find a nominee, the messier it could get in chicago. the modern orderly convention that our television shows produced by the parties last

four days, monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, thursday night in primetime is the triumphant speech by the nominee, but at ria contested convention we have no idea what thursday night nomight bring. politically, throwing the nomination open in a contested convention is a step ointo the unknown. one thoughtful essay that has worked through this scenario suggests it would be very exciting tv for the hifirst tim at a y political convention, th means for the atfirst time sinc 1968, when you could watch the rioting live on tv, during the convention sometimes in split screens that showed the protesters being beaten in the streets by eithe chicago police while the chicago political machine's henchmen were beating up reporters in the convention hall. exciting is one word you could use for the kind thof tv. it's also horrifying. the republican nominee for president richard nixon was watching the democratic

convention on tv, and that is when he knew he was going to win in november. i mentioned that joe biden at a fund-raiser tonight where he is crushing donald trump in the fund raising competition. the latest campaign finance report shows that the biden harris reelection campaign has $56 million on hand at the end of january while the trump campaign had only $30 million, president biden is also raising money with and for the democratic national committee which has $24 million on hand at the end of hajanuary, the republican national committee has $8 million. at the end of january. in the month of january alone, the trump campaign raised $8.8 million, and spend $11.4 million. donald trump has spent a total of $50 million on lawyers during the campaign, will spend much more. other packs and fund raising committee supporting the biden harris ticket had a combined $117 million at the beginning is the year and here tri

part, right here. here's the part of the story that no one who has said joe biden should drop out or has written that joe biden should drop out has ever mentioned that every other democrat whose name shows up in these articles as a substitute for joe biden as the democratic nominee has raised exactly zero money for a presidential campaign. no one has told you about the money, that means that prnone o them have thought for a second about the money, every series observer of presidential campaigns is supposed to know how important campaign money is, and not one of these people who are telling you that it's time to get rid of joe biden have given a thought to the money, so here is what they haven't told you or simply do not know, not one penny gavin newsom has in his campaign

treasury in california is usable in a presidential campaign, money raised for statewide elections for governors in california and other states are raised under different laws. then the laws governing federal ot campaign money. gavin newsom has zero deto spen on a presidential campaign as of tonight, gavin newsom knows that. if he can get the nomination would then leave the convention with no ability to even fly his way home. let me say the number again, zero. that is how many dollars gavin newsome would have to spend, would have to spend on a presidential campaign leaving the democratic convention, he would have zero. there is one other candidate, besides joe biden, who has raised money for a presidential campaign and only that one candidate who's done that is

kamala harris. the money raised for the biden harris campaign was raised in the name of both candidates, so kamala harris has a legal claim on all of that money if joe biden were to drop out of that race. all of the imagined contested democratic convention candidates there, there would only be one idcandidate, kamala harris who will have real money for a presidential campaign. that might be decisive, that might get her the nomination in the scenario at mithe conventio after who knows how many ballots. but at least kamala harris could leave the convention with real money to spend buon the presidential campaign. no one else could. so when someone tells you, biden should drop out, immediately ask them, the candidate should be? then ask how the candidate can get the nomination, on how many ballots, and then ask the question that you know has

never passed through their mind, what about the money? and if they can't answer all those questions to your satisfaction, you are not talking to someone with a solution. if they can't answer those questions to your satisfaction, you're not talking someone with a solution. we don't have time to explain the complexities of nominee vice presidential candidate at a contested convention, let's just assume that all of the , tindagree that whoever was the presidential nomination gets to choose their e vice president. if kamala harris is not on that ticket, the candidates who are on that ticket would have to very politely ask her to agree to move all of the biden harris campaign money to the democratic national committee, which is the only legal move that can be made with that money. kamala harris would still want to beat donald trump, so i'm sure she and joe biden would agree to move stsutheir campaig money. to the democratic national committee. most of her most ardent supporters which are, in the

end, on election day find their way to voting against donald trump. but that's not what happened in 1968. in 1968, enough voters who supported the anti-vietnam war candidate left that convention so embittered by what they saw as hubert humphrey's stealing the nomination. enough primaries that mccarthy voters angrily then -- 1% about that is why everett since 1968 the democratic party has always been trying to decide the smoothest most predictable lys dramatic conventions turned the conventions into what has usually been television shows.

because the last time -- there was blood in the streets and blood in the convention hall and bitterness on eviction day, enough to oolose the election f the democrats. all of the people who suggested that s.biden should step aside because they want the democrats to win are basing that strategy on the notion that joe biden is just too old, and the notion that iojoe biden is too old is based on a complete and utter misunderstanding of the work of the presidency. the job is to make decisions, not speeches. history writes about the decisions. that is what matters. if you have worked in government, you know that, because speech making is the only thing that the news media is allowed to watch. in a presidency, the news media

exists. but that must be important. it's just like the t super bowl you can remember what patrick mahomes did on the field, but you can't remember a word of his speech. and that's for a very good reason, the job is on the field. everyone who sees joe biden doing his job behind closed doors knows he is capable to do that job. and is as good at that job, including former republican house speaker, though he disagreed with joe biden, always thought grpresident bide was fully capable when he was in the room iddenegotiating wit him last year. last year when m joe biden managed to do what seemed impossible and convince the republican speaker of the house to go along with a deal that would prevent the united states of america from defaulting on its debt for the first time in its history and peg violating t debt ceiling, it seemed impossible, but joe biden did it. jon stewart asked a question recently that makes sense in the age of the ubiquitous camera, we , did all have one i

pocket. he asked did anyone film that? and he was referring to all those reports out there from people who have been in private meetings in negotiations with president biden and have seen him perform flawlessly. did anyone film that? that's the problem with the presidency. we only film the parts that it don't matter. we are not allowed to film the real job. we are not allowed to film the real governing discussions in the oval office that might or might not include classified information, but will definitely include statements about senators, congressman, possible strategies, details of policy dilemmas that no one in that room wants to be made public at s that time. every meeting that i was in in the oval office when i worked in the senate involved legislative strategies that we did not want made public, and would have failed if nothey wer made public. i was never once in a meeting

in the oval office or the cabinet room or in the senate majority leader's office or the speaker's office or anywhere where real governing occurred with the door closed, where cameras could possibly be allowed. not for one minute. the thing to know about cameras in government is that if the camera is rolling, nothing really important is happening. what you're watching is the theater. the governing will not be televised. and by the governing, i mean the very moments when the president makes the decision. i was in the oval office where i saw president bill clinton make a presidential decision on extremely high stakes, high pressure tax legislation that ultimately passed by one vote. and that decision involve the president having to change his very public position on a very important piece d of legislatio and i was more impressed with the speed and authority and confidence with which bill clinton made that decision in

in seconds in the oval office than i ever was by any bill clinton speech. i cannot remember a single line from any clinton r state of the union address, but i remember every word he said in the oval office that day, where the actual work of the presidency was done. politico's latest deentry in th genre, under the headline democrats might need a plan b, at least admits this at the outset. because of procedural and political hurdles, it would not be easy to simply swap phim ou the likeliest outcome is that biden stays on the ticket. and after correctly describing the likeliest outcome, the politico piece goes on into pages of fantasy of what could happen at a contested convention. ezra klein has written the very smartest entry in the genre in

the new york times. he is smarter than i am on just about everything and i've learned a lot from ezra. ezra klein lists th all of president biden's more than a impressive accomplishments with a senate divided almost 50/50. but ezra does not think that joe biden should step aside. does think that joe biden should step aside and let the democrats figure it out at itth convention. as our client writes i am convinced he is able to do the job of the presidency. he is sharp in meetings. he makes li isound judgments. i cannot point you to a moment where biden faltered in his presidency because his moage ha slowed him. i like biden. i think he's been a good president. i think he is a good president. and then, he says at the age of 81 doesn't mean anything. it's the impression biden is giving of age, of slowness, of frailty, the presidency is a performance. that is what television did to the presidency, made atit a performance. the political press only knows

how to cover the performance, like lytheater critics. they have no idea how to cover the job. and they make no real attempt to cover the job. most of them will always make the lazier choice to cover the performance and never attempt to actually inform voters about what really matters in the presidency. the names you always see at the top of the list of greatest presidents, including roosevelt, lincoln, washington, would all have failed in the television age on what is expected in the version of performance of the presidency. franklin delano roosevelt was 19 years younger than joe biden when he was running in his lastv reelection campaign. he was slowly dying during his last campaign. and his doctors knew it. and in fact, he died just over two months after his inauguration in 1945. but during that last year of his life, when he n would fall asleep at his whdesk, sometimes in the middle of signing his

name, he was also personally strategizing with, consulting with winston churchill, general george marshall, general dwight eisenhower, about the single largest military operation in history, the d-day invasion in v france in the middle of his reelection campaign. president roosevelt had overruled the generals at various stages of world war ii prior to that. and as history shows, he chose a better course than they recommended when he was overruling them. they urged a d-day invasion two years before the american military was aactually capable and ready to do it. and old franklin roosevelt nodding off sometimes, overruled those ooyounger minds those military experts, those generals. and he saved american soldiers lives in the process. franklin roosevelt was secretly

managing the development of an atomic bomb in what they thought was a race would not see germany to develop an b atomic bomb. it was fdr who built the flawless structure of rmsecrecy around the flwork robert oppenheimer was leading at los alamos to develop the most powerful weapon in history. franklin roosevelt was designing the united nations for the post ltwar period, calling it the united nations, deciding which countries would be measured -- members of the security council, deciding which country should have veto power. he was calculating every day how to deal with the soviet union's dictator joseph stalin as an ally and then al tin comb against nazi germany and how he would have to deal with stolen as a potential adversary after world war ii. nuclear weapons. the soviet union, the creation of a social security system which franklin roosevelt had done ten years earlier were all issues far anmore complex than every issue that passed through george washington's mind or abraham lincoln's mind in the

presidency. franklin roosevelt was making decisions about those issues sometimes in bed, sometimes when he was nodding off, always in his wheelchair when he bwas out of bed. sometimes after long naps. sometimes when just speaking itself took every whbit of strength he had. and whenever president roosevelt had to be awakened in the middle of the night with the latest battle news in world war ii, even as his physical energy was seeping out of him, he was salways ready. he was always ready to do his job in the middle of tothe nigh in the middle of the day. he was always ready to make the next decision. and no, we don't have any film of that. of that.

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donald trump, the self proclaimed billionaire, wants to use, of course, other people's money to pay the more than $500 million he owes following last week's civil fraud judgment. the guardian is reporting the immediate priority for trump's legal perils, according to people familiar with the matter, figure out how to come up with 450 million, a figure

that includes pre judgment interest, or finding a company prepared to help him post bond within 30 days of when the court entered the judgments that he can appeal the penalty. his lawyers have contacted several companies to provide the bond. surprising the first one didn't agree to it. and georgia governor brian kemp said this about the interview that he agreed to do with special prosecutor jack smith. >> i basically told him the same thing i told the special grand jury's, that i follow the law of the constitution and answered all their questions truthfully. >> reporter: trump's make an argument right now that it's in the hand of the supreme court, where it goes, that he has brought immunity as president and can be prosecuted for anything he can do in office. i wonder what you make of that claim. >> listen, i don't think anybody is above the law. you know, a democrat, republican, independent, myself, or anybody else. so that's my personal opinion.

>> reporter: do you think that those cases should go to trial before the elections, so voters can make a decision based off of that? >> listen, i think most voters probably feel the same way i do. i mean, we are a country that was built on laws and the constitution. and it's up to us as elected leaders to be the ones that exemplify that in a lot of ways. so we will see where the process plays out. i think they probably will be ruled on for the election. >> joining us now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney and professor at the university of alabama school of law. she is co-host of the podcast sisters in law, and a msnbc legal analyst. joyce, we just heard from the governor that he talked to jack smith, told him everything that he told the grand jury in georgia. he sounds very much like a cooperating witness to the extent that he can be helpful. >> well, i think that is right. cooperating witnesses may not

be the correct term here in the sense that we often think is cooperators as people who could have been defendants or have lots of evidence to give. but one thing that is clear is that kemp has made a decision that his obligation is to the law. and lawrence, i think the interesting unknown here is whether or not kemp had communications directly with trump or with anyone else on his staff. we know that they were making calls encouraging people in a lot of different states not to certify the votes. so perhaps he has something more interesting to discuss then the public is aware of right now. >> yeah, and the other thing that is so striking about it, and should not be, is that he's saying what any sane person should say about this. but it is just so striking that a high-level republican elected official is willing to say, yeah, donald trump is not above the law. >> you know, the political

reality in georgia is that in many ways it's a deeply conservative state. it sent marjorie taylor greene to the house representatives. but metro atlanta is a modern business area. they've got the atlanta airport. delta is headquartered in atlanta. and we've seen in the past where georgia has adopted policies that were perceived as not forward leaning, the business community has suffered. so the governor does have the ability on issues like, this as you say, and i think the point is so important, it should be so unremarkable for a governor to say no one is above the law, not him, not a democrat or republican. and yet in this day and age, it is remarkable to hear that from a republican governor. >> so we have reporting that donald trump's lawyers have been talking to several possible companies to somehow float a bond for him. not surprising that they would have to talk to several. it's hard to imagine any real company lender wanting to be involved with that.

>> there is still a little bit of a mystery around the first e. jean carroll trial, where the verdict was only $5 million. and trump paid all of that money into the court fund instead of posting a bond. we don't know if that was because he couldn't get one, or because he just had a preference. but, clearly here the better option is to get a bond. and that means trump will have to make sure that the bond company is comfortable. that he will pay his court judgment if it's confirmed on appeal. that means he will have to find collateral that's not used on another loan to attached to this, or cash assets. and apparently, it's something of a struggle for him. >> i would expect so. joyce vance, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. coming up, republicans in congress just lost their star witness against the bidens. so now, the republican plan is to just keep lying about it. that's next. it. that's next.

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did you have a nice valentine's day? alexander smirnoff did not. on valentine's day, he admitted to the fbi that he had been lying to them, so last week, 43- year-old alexander smirnoff was indicted for making false statements to the fbi about president biden and his son hunter biden. the filing in the case by prosecutors says he is actively peddling new lies that can impact the u.s. elections after meeting with russian intelligence officials in

november. alexander smirnov was, until he got indicted for lying to the fbi about joe biden and hunter biden, the single most important witness that house republicans claimed could make their case to impeach joe biden. now that their most important witness has been indicted for lying to the fbi about joe biden, the republican plan seems to be just keep lying. >> what do you think of the smirnov indictment? >> well, it is what it is. doesn't change the fundamental facts. >> joining us now is frank figliuzzi, former fbi assistant director of counter intelligence. he's an msnbc national security analyst. and glenn kirschner, a former federal prosecutor and host of the justice matters podcast. he is a msnbc legal analyst. and frank, does not seem to

change the fundamental facts? i don't know about that. >> [laughter] i know about it. this has all been a fabrication. we can tell those who disbelieved that the fbi has confirmed that this guy is a liar, and so much so that the department of justice, the u. s. attorney's office, and federal magistrate has determined this needs to go forward with criminal charges for lying to the fbi. what we are left with is a lot of unanswered questions, lawrence. which is, for example, what happened at the fbi and when? there have been some reports, as much as over three years ago the fbi started to doubt what smirnov was telling them. was the source properly handled? was he polygraphed? did they understand that he could be doubled back on them? when did the russians know that they had a guy in touch, daily, reportedly with fbi agents and they could feed him disinformation that would

somehow get to congress? lots of questions here. but we also have learned why even more the fbi director, chris wray, was so reluctant to turn over an unredacted 1023, a source report to congress. because at that point, they knew something smelled badly. and an unredacted unconfirmed source report was going to be exploited. >> glenn kirschner, here is the fbi working with this guy over period of time. and it just feels like to us out here that there had to be days when people were walking out of the room going what do you think of this guy? can we trust this guy? >> yeah, as frank knows, anytime you are dealing with confidential informants or sources or even the more formal cooperating witnesses, once somebody has pleaded guilty and agreed to testify about the crimes of others, the three most important words are corroboration, corroboration,

and corroboration. and it feels like someone dropped the ball here. because this information that now it turns out is basically russian disinformation just had this direct pipeline to the fbi first and foremost, and then ultimately directly to congress. and i think the big question now is what will the republican members of congress do, now they know that these are lies that they have been peddling as ably assisted by fox news, will they continue to peddle those lies? and if they do, lawrence, you know, i heard congressman daniel goldman on this earlier this evening saying something that i am in agreement with. he said if the members of congress now continue to peddle knowing lies that are a product of russian disinformation and propaganda, they should be investigated for being part and parcel of a conspiracy to defraud the united states and to interfere in our elections.

and representative goldman himself, a former federal prosecutor, knows whereof he speaks. >> so frank, will we learn the whole -- all the ins and outs of this if this case goes to trial? >> likely not everything, in fact, quite frankly, even the detention hearing in nevada was likely devoid of the classified elements of this, which may have contributed to that magistrate in las vegas going, hey, i don't think we can hold them, i don't know what we've got here. and they're trying again, reportedly now the prosecutors are going to try again to get him detained, and likely to share more -- far more sensitive information about his contacts with russian intelligence, for example. he's been in contact with

people associated with russian assassins. he's given up way too much information about russian intel. and it's possible he could be the subject of an assassination himself. he's got an israeli passport. he can get another, one even though they took it from him from the israeli consulate. and he can leave. so there's a lot here we are not going to learn, because it's classified. but we are going to learn more as this case goes on. >> glenn, how do the prosecutors balance what they can reveal against what they actually have to use to make their case? >> yeah, that's always a tough balance to strike. because you don't want to let someone like this walk out of the front doors of the courtroom because you haven't disclosed enough to satisfy a magistrate or a judge, that he is a flight risk. i read his 28-page detention memo, and it sure feels like he is a flight risk. so you also don't want to compromise ongoing investigations. you don't want to compromise sources and methods. so it is a really tough balance to strike. but i will tell you, i'm hoping that the prosecutors strike the balance in favor of doing everything they can to convince

the judge to whom they are now appealing this detention decision to keep this man detained but pending trial. because i think if he is released, the assets he has, he lied to the pretrial service agency, saying i only have about $6500, and it was discovered he had access to more than $6 million. he's got the means to flee. he's got no connections to the u.s. so i suspect we will not be seeing him again if he's allowed to leave. >> let's listen to what congressman jamie raskin said about this. >> the foundation of the whole impeachment investigation were the allegations that were advanced by smirnov and then reported in the fbi form 1023. and yesterday, it all exploded. not only do we know they are

false and fraudulent, but we know they were likely concocted, along with russian intelligence operatives. so to me, the whole thing smells like vladimir putin is all over it. >> so frank, this leaves their impeachment process stranded. it would seem, i'm not sure, there was never really basis to go forward anyways. >> yeah, we can never count on anything these days. but clearly we now know this. this was a russian operation, at least in the last couple of years with smirnov. now if the gop continues to assert disinformation, they are part of that operation. they are regurgitating russian intelligence disinformation. that is where we are. >> frank figliuzzi, glenn kirschner, think you both very much for joining our discussion tonight. >> thanks, lawrence. coming up, pulitzer prize- winning msnbc correspondent trymaine lee has launched a new five part series of his podcast

into america. there is an important story to develop today in los angeles that trymaine is the kind of story he has been covering. he's gonna join us on that, next. that, next. with nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. life, diabetes, there's no slowing down. each day is a unique blend of people to see and things to do. that's why you choose glucerna

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great view of the ocean and an easy path way down to the beach, where he intended to create a beach club for african americans, a place where black people in los angeles woould know they could go and could use when they went to the beach. a year later, the city of santa monica took over that property by eminent domain, claiming they had an important use for it. the city just turned it into a parking lot, where there really wasn't much need for a parking lot. the city of santa monica still owns that land and collects rent from the very prominent and very hip viceroy hotel, which now stands on that property. this is the latest example of black people being robbed of the kind of generational wealth that could be built on beach front property in the los angeles area. silas white's descendants are now asking the santa monica city council for fair compensation for what was taken from them. our next guest, pulitzer prize- winning journalist trymaine lee, has been investigating stories like this, and his

podcast, msnbc's just premiered podcast, the latest installment of into america. joining us now is msnbc correspondent trymaine lee, host of the podcast into america. trymaine lee, i thought of you when i saw the story today. there's been some previous reporting on it. but it came to my attention today, local tv coverage of it in santa monica. and it's so horribly repetitive of a story on manhattan beach, which is just south, a couple beaches south of santa monica beach in california, that took years to deal with. and here we are again. >> you know, lawrence, it's amazing to think about the stories we are hearing every single day. and it only brings to mind the stories that we don't know, the thousands or countless stories that you say from all across the country where the federal government, the state and local

government, either outright stole wealth from black folks, created barriers around them, or fleece them of value. and as you mentioned, the idea that this real estate and property, real wealth in america, as we know, real estate is not the driver of wealth in america, it is american wealth. and we've been exploring these stories, and each and every one of them is heartbreaking. because it begs the big question what could've been if black folks had been made whole throughout history. >> and so trymaine, in this story, the silas white story, the family stopped talking about it after a generation or two, they just stop talking about it. and one of his descendants was on local l. a. tv news saying i just discovered -- i didn't know about it. this young woman appeared to be in her 30s or so. so that must have happened so many times around the country where it kind of disappeared

even from the family's own knowledge. >> there is often the deep pain and anguish at that lost. but we think about some of the prior generations who've experienced great trauma. there is a silencing, a chilling effect on that. but also sometimes in america, the records just get lost. there are old records rooms who don't take care of the records. there are fires. there are people who potentially buried some of these facts and details. but in our podcast, uncounted millions, the power of reparations, we actually go back to a time when america was considering how to repay the descendants of enslaved people or the formerly enslaved. and we actually found -- in 1862, when the federal government, from what we believe the very first time, paid federal reparations for slavery. and they did so though for white enslavers. in 1862, there was an act called a compensated emancipation act which said we are going to free the enslaved people. this was a year before the emancipation proclamation, it said we were going to free enslaved people, and in doing so, we're also gonna pay

enslavers for their losses. and our story, there is actually a black man that popped up on that list, one of five black families that actually purchased his family's freedom and ended up on that list and found a loophole and actually got compensated for slavery. this is the first and last time that we believe that black people were actually paid reparations. but i was just the beginning. as we learn about stories like this, generation after generation of black people that were restricted by red lines or jim crow or eminent domain, all these violent tactics that the state and local governments have used to strip black people of -- >> trymaine lee, thank you for doing the work to deliver these stories to, us and thank you very much for joining us tonight, we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you. trymaine lee gets tonight's last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. starts now. tonight, the house republican impeachment inquiry now on thin ice. turns out their smoking gun witness got his info from russian intelligence officials. then, the largest hospital in alabama putting all ivf treatments on hold after a