the influencer community. with turning point usa, with the recent conference for young women, where they said, look, you need to ditch your hormonal birth control, it is unhealthy, they also talked about criticizing daycare, for instance. if you look at the roots of a lot of this, there is a belief in orthodox christian communities that the family has been breaking down over the past decade, and that at the heart of it, the root of it, is the sexual revolution, which was based on access, by women, to hormonal birth control. >> you are starting to see some of those signals make their way to the supreme court, even with the headline that we read earlier in the show from samuel alito, questioning whether same- sex marriage remains legal, or should remain legal, in this country? heidi, always a pleasure, thank you for your time, and for your excellent reporting. that is our show for tonight. alex wagner will be back

tomorrow evening. you can catch me on weekends, every saturday, and sunday night, at seven pm eastern, here on msnbc. it is time now for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening lawrence. lawrence good evening lawrence. good evening i'm and, we're gonna leave off exactly where you did on the question of abortion, and what donald trump has been saying about it, and not saying about it in his presidential campaign. >> he seems to want to take credit for the supreme court justices on it, but when he realizes it's a losing issue, he doesn't talk about it as much. he wants is cake, and eat it too, but again, not a surprise for trump. the >> in one of those ways, he stayed out of the debate, so we never had to discuss it with any other candidate. we're getting to it now, a man. >> good to see you my friend, thank you. >> thank you. this program is coming tonight from a room, in a building named after a billionaire. that building is located in the middle of a campus of buildings named after that same billionaire, rockefeller center

was named after john d. rockefeller the, and the first billionaire who lived. four blocks north from where i am sitting right now. billionaires have, always, loved new york. now that donald trump, it is facing more than half a billion dollars in civil judgments against them in the courts, the fox propaganda channel, which is located in manhattan, is a block away from rockefeller center, wanting you to think that new york is a bad place to do business because it has laws. >> new york was already a loser state, like california is a loser state. there are many lose their states because of policy, and high taxes, uncompetitive regulation. it's already the top of the list of being a loser state. i would, never, invest in new york, now. >> well, new york does not exactly need his money and

because new york has more billionaires than it knows what to do with. the most of the rest of the billionaires are in california, the other loser state, the richest state in the union, and the economy that would rank as the fifth largest economy in the world if california were a country. the states that the guy calls loser states, california, and new york, are always competing for the most expensive home sale in the country. the current winner is new york, where a billionaire bomb and apartment, five blocks north of john d. rockefeller's old apartment, and $238 million. $238 million with a box, and a kitchen. that is how much billionaires love new york especially new york city, especially manhattan. the courts have visited more than half a billion dollars in judgment no billionaire in

manhattan is going to leave because of what happened to donald trump in court. billionaire, mike bloomberg, is staying. you cannot find a prouder new yorker than him, and it shows three terms to the city's mayor, and the only billionaire mayor in american history, and from the new yorker mike bloomberg, was the richest elected official in american history. nothing could get him to new york city. the first question i to, the governor of new york, was an aide to daniel patrick moynahan , and is fed up with the kind of top you just heard from that guy in new york the. it is publishing a report this year about how much more money the state of new york contributed to the federal government, that it got back from the federal government, and that report, new york, really, was a loser state.

that is to say, the state of new york lost money because of its membership in the united states of america. the state of california lost money. it is the united states of america. in the states, that guy, that they called winner states, later in that interview, it was all winter states who won money by the united states treasury, meaning they all connected more from the federal government more than they ever paid him. they went on to praise the states that he really praised, which were north dakota, and west virginia the. two of the least desirable states to live in, according to the population numbers, in a country where we are, all, free to choose where we live, north dakota ranks 48th in population. west virginia, ranking 48. no one in fox wants to live in north dakota, and no one in fox

wants to live in west virginia. i have been to both of those beautiful states, more than once, and they have entranced me with their beauty, charm, and their people, but, i for one, couldn't make a living in either one. in fact, most people you see on fox live in new york, where fox was always headquartered, and will always be headquartered. the state of new york has been supporting the federal government from the beginning the first by the collection of tariffs in the largest port in the country, when tariffs were the largest source of the federal government from the revenue first. after the 20th century, in 21st century through the income tax, and more top income tax payers for any other state in the union. the interest highways in the state of alabama were not paid for between the state of alabama. new york city subways are not paid for by the people of alabama, or the taxpayers of

north dakota, or the taxpayers of west virginia. it is most dynamic city in human history, and if the laws of new york's force against donald trump, causing him financial pain, and that won't stop any billionaire, for any business, from thriving in new york as they always, haven't always well. donald trump wants to make new york a loser state, in another way. donald trump, and the republican party, want the women of the state of new york to lose the rights. there is nobody, and the rights that they have had for more than 50 years. now that the judge is donald trump appointed the supreme court of roe v. wade, donald trump wants to overturn the law of new york state, and the law of california, the law of massachusetts, and a lot of 30 other states that guarantee women the same protections that they have had under roe v. wade

. here is roe v. wade on meet the press in 1999. >> i am very pro choice. i hate the concept of abortion, i hate it, and everything it stands for, and i listen to cringe when people debate it but i believe the choice. >> 16 years later, donald trump said this. >> i have evolved on many issues over the years. you know who else has? ronald reagan, evolving over many years. what happened is that friends of mine, years ago, we're going to have a child, and it was going to be aborted, and it was not aborted, and that child, today, is a total superstar. a great, great, child. i saw that, i saw other instances, and i am very proud to say, i am pro-life. >> then came the chris matthews moment. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion. yes, or no, as a principle?

>> the answer is, there needs to be some form of punishment. >> for the women? >> yes, there must be some form. >> then, donald trump says this. >> do you want to see the court overturned? >> if we put another, two or three justices on, that's what will happen. that will happen automatically, because i am putting pro-life justices on the court. if they go back to the states, and the states will make in a termination. >> he was right about overturning roe v. wade. the new york times, reporting, donald trump is privately discussing a federal abortion ban that he would sign into law as president. so, as of tonight, voters have 259 days to understand the stakes. in the presidential election on this issue, donald trump would sign a national abortion ban into law, if he is elected president, and the control with congress to biden will veto a

national abortion ban if he is reelected and is going to congress. >> if congress passes a result of a -- veto ban, i will veto it. >> abortion rights was the clearest issue separating the winner from the loser. >> thinking about support republican mazi phillip? listen to what she said about supporting abortion. >> i think they made the right decision. >> you heard it. she says that the overturning roe v. wade was the right decision. we can't protect her to the sea over abortion rights. >> he became the democratic nomination after meeting with new york's governor, kathy mogul, who decided to endorse him, and went on to raise $200,000 for the suozzi campaign. he will be sworn in as the newer member of the house of representatives next week.

the democrats will have one more vote in the house of representatives. joining us now, the governor of new york, kathy hochul. joining us as well. >> with our defense of the state of new york, new york will never be a loser state. appreciate it, and your comments at the outset. >> when you know the subject, as you're going to do, it is the easiest case you can possibly make. it is also enforcing the law against donald trump, which now, billionaires, and businesses, will flee new york. is there anything they could possibly point them to? >> corpus people, like donald trump, may not find it a nice welcome here in the state of new york, and that is great with me. we have a great, thriving economy here. the i was with the secretary of congress, and the administration to announce their

investment with an 11 billion dollar new development in upstate new york, to cement our leadership in the semiconductor industry. they're here in new york, they are not somewhere else. same thing with micron. macron was 50,000 jobs 100 billion dollars investment, and is coming to new york. no matter what is said, and that no one pays attention to it, this is the place that businesses want to be, and donald trump said, i'm sorry we didn't follow the laws, there is consequences from breaking the law in the state of new york. >> let's go to what donald trump has been saying about abortion, and that is when. he's ducking abortion as much as they can, and they're reporting what he is really thinking. do you think there is some kind of federal abortion ban that will be negotiated with members of congress, and exactly, what the details are?

they are taking rights away, and it is massachusetts, and dozens of other states. >> he can run, but cannot hide from his words. what is coming out now, and finally in the public death discourse, it is a stark contrast between what the president we have, the president who is committed to women's rights, is there in the state of new york, and have been fighting for the first women's convention 1840, and it is still in their dna to fight for women's rights. so, to contrast that with someone who, yes, taking him at his word, is going to stack the supreme court with pro life justices. he said he's going to overturn roe v. wade, so why wouldn't we believe him now when he says that if he were delighted, is some doomsday scenario with part of it, if he was the next president, heaven forbid, every woman in this country, regardless of what they are the doing to protect them, is that

there would be losing their rights. and, to me, that is abhorrent. i thought for these rights. my daughter, and my newborn baby granddaughter, should have the right that was fought for, and not stripped away by a man named donald trump, just because he is pandering to get those votes. in contrast to what he is saying, you can't trust him other than to say, he will do whatever he can to put women in a place where they will not have the decision to make the decisions from these bodies, and that is frightening. they are terrified of that prospect. i believe that there will be consequences, and the ballot boxes, and just like we saw, in new york, this congressional race that the whole country was watching, because abortion was on the ballot, they're in long island as well. all of the long island republicans were saying, no, we will win this, it will be easy, we have our candidate, and

if you put abortion in that conversation, and this person opposes, that is a clear line, a demarcation, that women, even republican women, independent women, and even democratic women say that this is too far, and stops of the next election. >> my view of the campaign, and of long island was local tv news in new york city, and the advertising. suozzi ads was a favorite democratic candidate, tom suozzi, was all on this, that i saw. they were all on this abortion issue. showing, once again, as we've seen in other special elections, another election since roe was overturned, that it is such a powerful driver in these campaigns. but i'm a democrat -- american.

first >> for the national audience know, he ran against in the democratic primary, when you were governor rirunning for election this last time. >> but i am a democrat, in american first. and i know how important it is that stwe take back the house o representatives, and take back our democracy. so thomas suozzi was the person i knew could win, but our conversation first was around the question of tom, will you be fully supportive of women's rights to choose, women's rights to have an abortion. he said absolutely, absolutely. and i said well, you need to run on that. and he did, and that was the issue i believe that help when the day. so also, when i ran a few years, ago we talked about abortion, my support for abortion, a constitutional amendment, which is now on a ballot this november. but here in the state of new york, a lot of people didn't really think there could ever be jeopardized. so really, it didn't rise to people's consciousness as something that is really under threat here, when ini was runni against republican members of congress. and, they said you are a blue, state you are safe.

i think with donald trump, what he has done right now by talking about a national ban, in a serious way, that this could become the reality. women in even the blue states, the new york's, the californians, the massachusetts and others, they are the ones who also have to be mobilized to get out there and support their members of congress. whether they are in the safe seat or a battleground. and we've a lot of battleground seats right now in new york. the path to the republican majority being wiped out, and the democrats led by hakeem jeffries taking over, goes right from rinew york state. and it's the leader of the state party here, i am taking this seriously. i'm working on the issues that i believe will help us. and one of them is not just abortion, number one. but number two, mbit has to be the republicans refusal to accept the deal that was negotiated by president biden, chuck schumer, and conservative republicans in the senate, to help deal with the migration program problem, to help deal with ogsupport for ukraine, support with israel.

and they said no, and i said will once you break, it you own it. so we are going to use that as a wedge issue as well this november. >> there was a solution to border security. >> absolutely. >> negotiated by conservative republicans elin the senate, agreed to by democrats. compromise agreement on border security, to absolutely increase dramatically, more than ever before, and donald trump ordered it killed, and republicans in congress killed it. new york has the power in flipping house speech to gain control of the house of o representatives. can it happen this time, with the way this party has unified, as we saw in -- the >> absolutely. and you mentioned border control. we spoke about our former, boss senator -- patrick moynahan. i worked on the last time we had immigration, i was a staffer on his team. i was sent to negotiate with the republican staffers. oren hatch of staff, bob dole staff. we worked with ten kennedy,

jean rockefeller. we all work together. and so, i still believe that there can be bipartisan solutions, that the institution is capable of it if you get the right people in their. and i'm going to be working get make sure that we have the right people in there. and also, even before next november's election, which i believe we will pick up the house, the republicans in the state of new york, epand there are ten of them, they have the power to caucus together, march down to speaker johnson's office, and say we demand that you do something about the border. bring it to hithe floor, and we will support it. use the power that has been given to you, because we are being so effective, we 175,000 migrants who came here. they came for a better life, fo they came for a job. but our city and its resources are absolutely overwhelmed. we need a break. i am working to get people jobs, they are here, i'm going to make them work, and get them jobs. but until then, we need some relief at the border, and those republicans, even in one state like new york, ten of them can

make this happen. and if they don't, this will be a wedge issue, a forceful issue against them as well. so i'm putting them on notice. you broke it, you now own it. >> before you go, i want to ask you something personal about politics, that i think is a lesson for voters in november. because there are plenty of voters out there beright now wh voted for joe biden last, time and they are dissatisfied with s some of the things he has done in his presidency. and they are saying i am not with, him i am disappointed with him, i am disappointed in for a variety poof different reasons. tom suozzi, who you endorsed, ran a campaign against you, which i am going to call, you don't have to adopt these words, i'm n'going to call nast it was nasty. and it's not the kind of of campaign that democrats run in primaries against individuals in their state. but you decided to win that seat on long island's, you were going to support tom suozzi.

personally, what was that like for you personally? because floaters are going to go through experiences like this in november, where they are angry with the president about the situation in gaza, or something else, and yet they are very strong pro-choice of voters, and the only choice they have to express that on the ballot is e joe biden. but they've s got that difficulty. so if i'm angry at him for something, i am sure that there were nights in your life, where you were very angry at thomas suozzi, when he was running against you. and then the day came when you had to make a decision about what is best for government, and what is best for this country, in that congressional seat. what is that, what does that feel like to go through that at type of decision? >> as somebody who believes in our democratic institutions, who loves this country to my core, i knew that the most important thing i could do was to set aside personal feelings, which l are real. we are h human beings, we are n

robots. but also say, but if he doesn't become the nominee, and we don't pick nup that seat, i couldn't live with that consequence. just like the people who are saying well, i don't agree with joe biden 100% of the time. i'm telling, you i have been married 40 years, tei love my husband, i don't agree with him every minute of itthe day. so let's not be looking for 100% alignment on every issue. but say, are we better off with joe biden, who was a national security president, who understands relationships with foreign leaders, who can rsget out of crises, who i've spent av lot of time, with who i truly believe in. the money that we are spending on infrastructure, bringing home manufacturing to the united states, mthat's all because sof joe biden. inflation is going down, unemployment is down, people are back doto work. why can't we say, why can't we reason that our place, our country is a better place because of cojoe biden. if you don't e agree with him o hunted percent, don't just think we're still better off than under donald trump. we saw that show before.

we had no credibility on the world stage, people laughed at us. they didn't trust us. and even before he would get elected, to say attack our nato allies, telling putin what to do? if that doesn't shake you to your core, i don't think ronald reagan would have spoken like that, i don't think our country is ready for that again. so dywe've been warned, i say people should get together, embrace joe biden, say thank god joe debiden is our presiden right now. because that's the only way i can go to bed at night, and know that some day, my granddaughter, and my family will live in a better country because joe biden is president, and donald trump never stepped foot in that white house ever again. >> governor kathy hochul, i cannot thank you enough for joining us here tonight, really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you. and coming up, tonight, donald trump said that he is suffering as much as alexei navalny. it was -- he was assassinated by vladimir putin last week. that's next. n last week. that's next.

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donald trump has still not said one sympathetic word about the assassination of alexei navalny, in one of vladimir putin's prison last week. but donald trump cannot stop comparing his suffering to alexei navalny's suffering. but listen to a donald trump said tonight on fox. about having a civil judgment returned against him by a new york judge last week. and what you are about to hear donald trump, who is free to do anything he wants, every day of his life, and flies around on his private plane, with jet fuel paid for by gullible campaign contributors. and who plays golf whenever he wants, and can eat unlimited amounts of whatever he wants, whenever he wants it,. he compares that life of his, to the life of a russian dissidents, who devoted himself to opposing vladimir putin,

spent years in prison because of it, was poisoned by vladimir putin's operative in a failed murder attempt, and then finally last week, was assassinated in vladimir putin's prison. donald trump thinks his life, and alexei navalny's life, are the same. i >> it's a form of navalny, it is a form of communism, or fascism. they find me $355 million, plus interest and other things. 355. and what we did, in fact my financial statements were conservative. everybody made money, there was no victim, the bank gets up and says, we love this guy. >> no one said we love this guy in that trial. no one. here is what new york state attorney general letitia james told abc news tonight. >> if he does not have funds to pay off the judgment, then we

will seek judgment enforcement mechanisms in court. and we will ask the judge to seize his assets. >> they said no victim, no one got harmed, the banks got paid back. so, no harm, no foul. why is that not the case, in your view? >> so, financial frauds are not victimless crimes. he engaged in this massive amount of fraud, and it wasn't just a simple mistake, a slight oversight. the variations were wildly exaggerated. and the extent of the fraud was staggering. >> donald trump's first criminal trial is scheduled to begin in new york city, with jury selection on monday, march 25th. joining us now is judge -- former u.s. attorney, and a professor at the university of alabama school of law. she is co-host of the podcast sisters law, an msnbc legal analyst. and joyce, we are now in the public discussion of collecting from donald trump, that massive

judgment, or what he has to do in order to proceed with an appeal. which is essentially to pay the judgment in advance. >> that's right. donald trump will have to get a bond that will secure the entire amount of this judgment against him. and letitia james, no one should mistake her softspoken, careful choice of words, for anything other than firm steel that is inside of her. she went after this case when people told her it couldn't be done. when she says she intends to collect this judgment no matter what legal process she has to put in place, i think we can believe her. she has a plan, she will execute that plan. and if trump is forced to sell some of his assets, or dissolve some of his assets to satisfy the judgment against him, then she will go to court to ensure that happens. >> so the sequence we are going to see the, let's just assume for the moment that donald

trump is able to come up with the money that allows him to proceed with the appeal. we won't see what happens on the collection end of it until that appeal is is over. but because he has already basically put the money in the courts jurisdiction, when he loses that appeal, if he loses that appeal, it's pretty much automatic, isn't it, for that money to be handed over? >> well it is. and the bond, the appeal bond that he has to get. i mean obviously, he could pay the full amount into the courts fund. but i think we won't see that happen here. we saw it with the $5 million -- in the first e. jean carroll trial. but he has to post a bond that acts as security forest promised to pay. and if he does not pay, one of the things that the attorney general can do is go ahead and collect from whoever it is that issues the bond, and then it is up to them to go back against donald trump for the full

amount. one way or the other though, the state of new york will get its pound of flesh. >> i think people watching this, who might have had some experience with some smaller forms of civil litigation, are familiar with the notion of okay, so someone got sued, and they owe the money, but then it takes years to collect from them. this is not one of those cases. >> i think that's right. and to your point lawrence, it really is an automatic operation. once he loses the appeal, assuming that he posts a bond, there is an appeal, the court finds against, him which i think is very likely, because this was a tight record in the trial for it. then there is no appeal left to donald trump, a way to try to keep the money from being paid. it is simply doing and owing at that point in time. and you know, to your point, because this is automatic, anyone who is going to issue a bond in this case is going to be very certain that donald trump has collateral to satisfy

the judgment, and the amount of risk that they are taking. >> joyce vance, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> and coming up, republican politicians are now trying to pretend they live in a different country from the rest of us. our next guest, senator tammy baldwin of wisconsin, is running against one of those republicans in her senate reelection campaign. senator tammy baldwin joins us next. ampaign. senator tammy baldwin joins us next. toes? [both] oh that's fresh! ♪♪ ♪ old spice whistle ♪ i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein! those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. -ugh. -here, i'll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals. and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic. (♪♪) rsv can seriously impact breathing, even for the best performer. protect yourself with pfizer's abrysvo... ...a vaccine to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv

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in an endorsement of president joe biden's reelection campaign, reported on this program last night, the houston chronicle noted some of the success stories of the biden presidency. the economy has recovered from the perils of the pandemic, and is now healthier than that of any other advanced nation. with unemployment approaching a 50-year low. inflation is trending downward, somehow, despite all dire prophecies of economists, without the bitter medicine of a recession or a period of high unemployment. the biden administration in its first year managed to pass a bipartisan infrastructure investments and jobs act, that's expected to add an estimated 1.5 million jobs per year for the next ten years. republican politicians are now trying to pretend they live in

a different country. >> so, why am i here today? it's really simple. i love my country. and everywhere i look today in my country, i see it failing. >> that is eric -- a millionaire banker and real estate developer who has been selected by the republican party to run for the senate seat currently held by wisconsin democratic senator tammy baldwin. the associated press reports, -- his business empire includes properties, a real estate development company founded by his grandfather. in 1933. and three banking companies. he is ceo of some west bank, has appeared in television commercials for them, that air out west, and only say 7 million dollar estate in -- laguna beach, california, in addition to his property in madison, he returned to madison in 2011 after living in washington d.c. for 24 years.

democrats have branded -- as a carpetbagger, who left his california mansion to run for senate in wisconsin, where he was born and raised. joining our discussion now is democratic senator tammy baldwin of wisconsin. she is a member of the senate appropriations committee, and is running for reelection to united states senate. senator baldwin, thank you very much for joining us tonight. what are the stakes for the people of wisconsin, in a campaign between you and a republican, like this millionaire, who has decided to run against you? >> yeah so, mitch mcconnell must be thrilled his top recruit said yes. but let's face it, erik hovde owns a 2.8 billion dollar california bank, has a 7 million dollar california laguna beach mansion, and was named most influential person in orange county three years in a row. we don't have an orange county

in wisconsin, we don't grow oranges here. he is definitely a californian. but not only did mitch mcconnell get a great recruit from their respective, but he also has somebody who is going to tow the mcconnell agenda. -- supports a national abortion ban, he supports cutting social security. and he also wants to overturn or repeal the affordable care act. he is going to self-fun, he says he is going to put 20 -- of his own money into this race. i cannot self funds, anybody watching who wants to help us fight back, go to tammy baldwin.com. >> it sounds like you can put in a lot more than $20 million. >> i think he can. he has said, he offered that figure up last year, when he was considering getting into the race. now he is in. as i've said, they've gotten their top recruit, beacon -- but also because he maintains

his, these horrible policy positions that would harm wisconsinites. >> we saw today that wisconsin is now finally going to have a reasonably drawn electoral maps. this is a 13-year battle. and so in that, in that outcome, in that aura of victory for democrats, in getting some fairness there, is there some momentum now for democrats in wisconsin? >> well they're absolutely is. when you have fair maps, you have good contest it races. there are parts of wisconsin that haven't had a democratic candidate for assembly or a senate knock on their door for 15 years. this is going to change with fair maps. we want to see a lot more contested races, we are going to have conversations that voters doris, that i think got them really involved in the race, and to really understand where the candidates stand.

like the contrast between me and my california multimillionaire opponent. >> you know, we think of campaigns as the coke tales theories of campaign, is that the higher names on the ballot draw the voters in. and i'm wondering if this time, because there are real competitive races for the first time in many of these districts for the state legislature, that you could have a more energy coming into -- at the lower end of the ballot, then feeds the democratic side at the top? >> well i do think having fair maps and contested races are really going to mean that we have a lot more involvement. you know, the way races are won, oftentimes is conversation by conversation, with neighbors, as you go to endorse a neighbor to neighbor. or in the break room at work. and we are going to see a lot more of that happening in wisconsin, because of these new maps. i think there will be a renewed

energy, and i think it is exciting that we could actually have a legislature that represents the voters of wisconsin. >> well, donald trump is actually, he is very much going to hope that there is a republican senator, not -- of wisconsin who is going to support that national abortion ban that he wants to sign, if he gets elected. senator tammy baldwin, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> and coming up, alexei navalny's widow believes vladimir putin will not release alexei navalny's body, unless or until the people who murdered him in a russian prison can remove any possible traces of poison, from the body. alexei navalny's devoted friend, michael mcfaul, will join us next. mcfaul, will join us next. did she get implants? yeah, i got an implant, sheila!! it's inspire. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com (fisher investments) it's easy to think that all money managers learn more and view important safety information are pretty much the same, but at fisher investments we're clearly different.

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fight bravely in defense of their country. >> alexei navalny's widow posted this video yesterday. >> [speaking in a global language] [speaking in a global language] [speaking in a global language] [speaking in a global language] [speaking in a global language] [speaking in a global language] [speaking in a global language] [speaking in a global language] [speaking in a global language]

[speaking in a global language] [speaking in a global language] [speaking in a global language] >> she also said she believes vladimir putin is holding her husband's body to wait for traces of his poison, to leave the body. alexei navalny's 69-year-old mother traveled to the arctic prison colony, where navalny was murdered. where it is 14 degrees fahrenheit. she pleaded for her son's body, to be released. joining us now is michael mcfaul, who served as u.s. ambassador to russia from 2012 to 2014, for president obama. he is an msnbc international affairs analyst, and a close friends of alexei navalny. michael, i feel like you have been in a wake, on television,

forced by us on to television, in what would otherwise be a wake for you, in dealing with the loss of your friend. i would like you to first speak about how this has affected you personally, if you can. 's >> well lawrence, i've had the pleasure and privilege in my life to meet a lot of courageous people around the world. here at stanford, i teach courses on democratic breakthroughs's. so i've read about a lot of courageous history -- and alexei navalny was certainly one. of them -- he was the mandela of russia hobble. valencia take your pick only different from it he didn't live to see and get out of prison i and that's the tragedy here. it's been hard. i was with you leah, and i was with his wife -- and -- we had

planned to meet the next day for coffee, and then she called me that morning, to tell me this horrific news. but as you just showed in that clip, she said to all of us we have to fight on. and certainly, she is the person, she is strong, tough as nails, very principled, smart, and she is the new leader. she has picked up the baton, and she is not quitting. so that to me is a challenge that i have to do what i, can including to be on your show right now, to tell the world about who relaxing of only was, and what his movement will become. >> donald trump clearly doesn't understand anything about alexei navalny. he compared himself tonight on fox to alexei navalny, and the suffering that election of all has gone through. he also said that he did use the word brave, saying that navalny was brave to go back to russia, after they poisoned him, and after he recovered. and trump couldn't understand at all, not a bit, why anyone

would go back to russia, where there was clear danger. >> well, that's the difference between brave people and not brave people. and trying to use a diplomatic word there yeah, i mean, i was in touch with alexei during that period, there was no question he was going back he. wasn't to be denied his country he. he loved russia, he loved russians, he wanted russia to be great and democratic and free. and he had the audacity to believe that russians should get to vote for their leaders. he had the audacity to believe that there was a different kind of russia than vladimir putin's. and i've got to tell, you there or a lot of cynical people around him that said stop being such a dreamer, that's not going to happen in this country. and he refused to listen to that, and of course he has now given the ultimate sacrifice to those dreams but those dreams haven't died. i want to be really clear about

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