tonight's last word is the last word that the court of appeals said today about judge tanya chutkan's ruling and against donald trump's claim of immunity. the peels court said that that ruling is affirmed. that's tonight's last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. stephanie ruhle starts now. tonight, donald trump's sweeping claims of immunity rejected by a federal appeals court. what happens next for the former presidents delay tactics. then, polls closed in nevada's primary. nikki haley ran unopposed with zero delegates on the line. does this contest have any impact on the nomination? and with a failed impeachment vote in a blocked border bill, do republicans have a plan c for immigration? as the 11th hour gets underway on this tuesday night. ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening once again. i'm stephanie ruhle. we are now 273 days away from

the election. and this is been an absolutely huge newsday. in nevada, votes are being counted in the states primaries. in washington, speaker mike johnson led an embarrassing supply of setbacks will not one, but two failed votes. and in michigan, we got a groundbreaking verdict tied to mass shootings in this country. but first, the biggest story of them all. a panel of federal judges, excuse me, a panel of federal appeals court judges ruled donald trump is not immune from prosecution for trying to overturn the 2020 election. my colleague laura jarrett has all the details. >> reporter: former president donald trump today dubbed citizen trump by a three judge panel in washington, ruling mr. trump is not immune from prosecution. the court saying we cannot accept that the office of the presidency places its former occupants above the law for all- time thereafter. the trump campaign saying he

will appeal the decision. trump himself by morning the ruling, saying a president of the united states must have full immunity in order to properly function and do what has to be done for the good of our country. special counsel jack smith charged mr. trump last summer for his efforts to reverse the 2020 election results and stop the peaceful transfer of power. >> we will never give up. we will never concede. >> reporter: mr. trump's legal team has been trying to get the charges tossed out for months, arguing he should be completely immune from prosecution for any acts he took as president. the court today on persuaded, saying we cannot accept former president trump's claim that a president has unbounded authority to commit crimes that would neutralize the most fundamental check on executive power, the recognition in implementation of election results. >> and that was not the only massive legal story today. and a landmark decision, a michigan jury found jennifer crumbley guilty of involuntary

manslaughter in her son's deadly school shooting. it is the first time a parent has been held criminally responsible for a mass shooting committed by the child. with that, let's get smarter with the help of our lead off panel tonight. i told you there was a lot of news. katie benner is here, pulitzer prize-winning reporter for the new york times. former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst glenn kirschner. and george conway joins us, conservative lawyer and contributing writer at the atlantic. he has a must read piece out today. katie, let's start with you. we have waited weeks for this decision. many lawyers were getting more and more anxious thinking this was not going to go the way they thought it should. what stands out to you? >> one of the first things that stands out to me is that this is an opinion that all three judges on the panel have signed on to. they are not showing any -- there is no daylight between them. they all agree on every single one of these points. it makes it really strong in terms of whether or not this is a thing that should be appealed

to the supreme court and whether or not the supreme court will take it. they've also put in a tiny mechanism for donald trump. he can't continue to draw this. out there saying you either need to appeal to the supreme court in the next few days, or you need to say you want to bring this to the entire appeals court here in washington, d.c.. if you take the latter option, that's fine. but the trial can start in february. so the really putting a shot clock on this and saying no more foot-dragging. but again, this is a strong opinion. they agree on every point. they knocked out every single one of his arguments in lockstep. and it's the kind of thing that feels airtight, so if you're the supreme court, you could look at this opinion and say, you know, i don't think there's much more for us to do here. there's not a big question to be answered that has not been answered fully by this panel. >> george, airtight, that's exactly what you wrote about today. elaborate for us them. >> yeah, it's airtight. it went through every single one of donald trump's contentions, even the weakest

ones. and methodically and systematically dismantled them one by one. there really isn't anything left of his arguments. and i don't -- he can't really come up with any new ones. he threw out some arguments that he probably shouldn't have made. and that's the point for the supreme court. the supreme court is not going to have much to add to this. this opinion, it's hard to see any court, a group of judges, even the supreme court writing a better opinion in this. >> then you think it'll be tougher for donald trump to use his favorite defense, delay? >> i do, because especially as katie mentioned, the d.c. circuit federal court of appeals built in at least one roadblock , donald trump continuing to be able to exploit the delay. and i love that the court used the very language of the constitution to shoot down donald trump's ridiculous claim of absolute immunity. you know, they pointed to the presidents responsibility to

take care that the laws be faithfully executed. i think we can all ask ourselves , under what understanding of the english language -- english language can the president has the duty to faithfully execute the laws of the country be empowered to violate the laws of the country with impunity and immunity. so now, we're not out of the woods yet, because as one last justice hurdle to overcome, and that is what the supreme court except review of the case? >> that's exactly where i want to go next, katie. let's go back into those woods. trump has until monday to go to the supreme court. walk us through that timeline. >> you know, that's really not very much time. and basically, you have to make the argument that what this appeals court has looked at and the arguments they've made are somehow deficient. now as george pointed out, this is a really airtight case. and i think that one of the things, you know, we've been thinking about why is it taking this court so long, this panel, excuse me, to come out with their ruling on immunity. i think one of the things they

wanted to do was address serious questions that could leave this open to supreme court review. and one of them was whether or not there was venue at all, whether or not this court should be weighing in on acts. and there were some technical things in the ruling that i don't want to get to in the weeds on, but one was simply whether or not courts should be reviewing presidential acts at all. and then another was whether or not them he was appropriate for the court to weigh in on a question, basically before the trial had ended and a jury had come up with an opinion. that's when decisions are usually appealed, if it was okay to do that in process. and one the reasons they took that so seriously is because these or question supreme court might want to weigh in on. and particularly in the case of whether or not courts can even review presidential decisions at all. and they make a really important distinction, one is that there are two presidential acts. the first policy batters. of course, course don't really weigh in on this.

kind of putting to bed this fear that trump brings up that if you can accuse a president of a crime, presidents will not be able to make policy decisions. the second though, which is called and ministerial decision, a ministerial decision is basically are you doing the part of the job that is upholding the law. that is not up for debate, it is something that really speaks to separations of power. if you're not upholding the law and the courts can tell you that you need to, why even have lawmakers? why even have congress if the president can throw the laws. and that's what this case deals with. so they really got into his arguments. and it's gonna be difficult, i think, for donald trump's lawyers to show how the supreme court still has something to grasp onto here. >> george, i see you nodding. do you agree? >> yeah, absolutely i agree. there's a couple more aspects of the opinion that are worth noting. one is is it makes it more bulletproof against supreme court review that they narrowly framed the decision, they nearly frame the circumstances, the balance that they used to determine whether or not there

should be immunity in terms of the actual case involved here, that it involved not a current president, but a former president, and equally important, that it involved a former presidents effort while president to maintain himself in office, contrary to the constitution. and basically, when they put together that balance, they basically said, we'll, if you allow this to happen, there is no check on a president. and that a president can basically irrigate to himself the right to stay in office forever. and that can't possibly, that can't possibly be something that the court could support. >> george, donald trump was fundraising off of this less than three hours after it came out. you know republicans, you know republican donors very well. are they going to keep donating for legal fees? right? like i'm thinking, if i was a donor of a politician, i'd like to think that my dollars are going to bumper stickers and signs and rallies.

republican donors going to keep giving him money that's gonna be handed to lawyers? >> i mean, that's hard to know. they have in the past them. and you see some of the salute -- felicitations, i still get some of them. it's amazing how stupidly they view, i mean, how stupid they think their donors and voters are. but alas, that's what we have here them. and i think of the large donors are giving up, that's why you see the rnc running so short on cash. but donald trump seems to be able to suck up all the small donors. that's not good, frankly, for republicans elsewhere on the ballot. >> katie, is it fair to call this a win for jack smith, even though the cases been delayed and time is a huge problem here? >> i think that anything that pushes this case closer to the day that they can start doing jury selection is probably a win for jack smith. also interestingly, it's another instance in which donald trump's own words are

being used to show why he is wrong, so jack smith does that in many, many of his filings. he cites donald trump's own languages, own words, who knows oceans to show why he later did something he should know is wrong. and even here, at the appeals panel finds an instance of that, where they say in his own impeachment hearing, donald trump's own lawyers say if you're looking at his actions around january 6th and you want to decide whether or not what he did around a january 6th is correct, impeachment is not the right venue, the courtroom is the right venue. they even say that land during his impeachment hearing. so here he is again. so i think this is probably open and shut for jack smith. >> glenn, some say this ruling is a sign that our justice system will not allow donald trump to pursue a more authoritarian vision without checks and balances if he wins in november. our u.s. hopeful? >> i'm guardedly optimistic. i think it's a sign that the rule of law is being prodded

into wakeful this and will apply to donald trump, as it should've been all along. and i hope, steph, that the supreme court decides not to accept this case for review. because i feel like it's in your certainty that they will agree with the ruling from the three judge panel. and they really don't need to accept this case for review to simply render an opinion that says we agree. the only thing they will accomplish in real terms if they accept this case is delay. and the delay could be considerable. you know, i'm not a betting man, but i do think the smart money is riding on the supreme court letting this one go, leaving the appellate court opinion intact, returning it to judge chutkan, putting it back on the trial track, and you know, let's get this justice show on the road. >> george, let's widen the scope a little bit here. as a party ever had a worst day in modern history? just think about today, republicans leading candidate got crushed in a serious legal

case. their new speaker went down on two bills in the house. and ahead of the rnc could likely be on her way out. and the senate is blocking its own border bill. >> it's absolutely amazing. i mean, that's a cuadra fact a, i think. and it just goes to show you the damage that donald trump has done to this party. i mean, he's basically now going to be -- he's the front runner to be the nominee for president. he's under indictment, with 91 counts. he doesn't have immunity. he's losing in court. he loses to e. jean carroll. he loses to jack smith. he's got to lose some more. and meanwhile, there is no agenda in the republican party. there is no belief in anything. it's all about trying to obstruct positive changes, including things that they had asked for an immigration bill, in order to create issues for a campaign, which they're not raising much money for and they don't have really great prospects them if donald trump

is continuing to lose and continuing to -- and faces a trial this summer, which i think will absolutely happen in the january 6th case. >>, glenn, there's another topic i want to ask you about, i know we're gonna get into it late in the program, it's jennifer crumbley. she was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in her son's school shooting. how big of a deal is this verdict legally? >> you know, on the one hand, it's significant because, as you say, a parent hasn't previously been held accountable for a mass shooting perpetrated by a son her daughter. i'm on the other hand, it's not that unusual that we hold folks accountable for homicides who don't necessarily pull the trigger. we hold eaters and abettor's accountable, even if they didn't pull the trigger. we hold coconspirators accountable, even if they didn't pull the trigger. i think it's wonderful that they're expanding liability in this way, because maybe it will have some deterrent effect.

but it really feels like we continue to refuse to go to the crux of the problem, which is guns and weapons of mass destruction, assault rifles, and expanding liability is helpful. but i don't know that it will end up preventing future mass shootings. >> all right, glenn, thank you so much. katie, george, thank you as well. as i said, a busy night. and now to nevada, where voters cast ballots in primaries for both parties today. this one, it's, like, a head- scratcher. we talked about it last night. the republican one is basically meaningless, because it does not award the states delegates, none of them. and the only choices on today's gop ballot where nikki haley and none of the above. with me for more, jon ralston, ceo of the nevada independent and msnbc political analyst. john, this whole thing blows my mind. it just seems like a colossal waste of time and money. president biden is expected to

pick up more delegates in your state, that's a positive for him . but what can you tell us about what is happening on the gop side? >> i don't think we have enough time for me to on confuse everyone, stephanie. but i will do my best. there is a state law that was passed in 2021, switching us from a caucus to a primary state. but it left open the possibility of the parties to decide which way they want to allocate their delegates. the republicans broke away last year, said they wanted to do a caucus. instead, and they extorted $55,000 from any campaign that wanted to participate and said no super pacs could be involved in ads, a direct shot at desantis. it was clear that the party was setting it up for trump, they were worried he would not get as big a percentage of a vote in a wider universe. so they want to fix this for trump. the state chairman has endorsed trump, has been a trump

supporter. i don't think i saw this coming, stephanie. there would be all this confusion and chaos, even among their own voters, who by the way, stephanie, can vote tonight, today, and on thursday, believe it or not. >> but only once. is there a fear voters will be confused? i've had this explain to me on air, last night, tonight, offer, i've read about it. the average voter might not know about, this and they're walking, in their choice is nikki haley or none of the above? >> yeah, like dead campaigns like mike pence's and tim scott's, they could not get their name off the ballot. and there are some minor candidates there, too. but the danger for nikki haley, who made huge strategic error and not campaigning here, she could've -- declared victory tonight, said donald trump is a coward, wouldn't face me, i had to do a fake election on thursday. she didn't do that. so now there are gonna be a lot of people who vote for none of the above. trump has told people not to

participate. the chairman of the party and the governor, who has endorsed trump, has said vote for none of the above. if she loses to none of the above today, it's not that meaningless, stephanie. it's going to be a huge, huge embarrassment on to her as she's trying to prove that she's going to stay in this campaign going into south carolina. by the way, there were voters who went today that my staff interviewed who had no idea why trump was not on the ballot, and i just laughed. they did not vote. it's a true story. >> nobody likes to lose big in vegas. jon, it is always good to see. thank you so much. when we come back, unanimous verdict in michigan to convict a mother for her son's deadly school shooting. we are going to speak to fred guttenberg, who lost his 14- year-old daughter jaime in parkland, florida. and, later embarrassing back-to- back failures for speaker mike johnson. robert gibbs and michael steele

weigh in on the gop in disarray. the of the hour just getting underway on a tuesday night. ay.

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critical verdict, he parent is being held criminally responsible for their child's deadly school shooting. a michigan jury found jennifer crumbley guilty of involuntary manslaughter. my colleague maggie vespa has the details. >> reporter: tonight, an unprecedented verdict. >> we find the defendant guilty of involuntary manslaughter. >> reporter: jennifer crumbly found guilty on four counts, one for each student or her son killed, leaving the courtroom in handcuffs as the first parent ever convicted in the role of a mass shooting conducted by their child. the jury forewoman speaking out to nbc use. it >> was very difficult, not an easy decision. the reality thing that hammered at home when she was the last adult but the gun. >> reporter: after the verdict, family members of those four students hugging prosecutors.

>> reporter: the moment you heard the verdict, what went through your mind? >> that i can breathe. >> reporter: craig shilling lost his 17-year-old son, justin . >> he loved life, and he deserve to live it. >> reporter: the historic verdict following seven days of emotional testimony, culminating with crumbley taking the stand in her own defense. >> i wish he would've killed us instead. >> reporter: prosecutors suggested she was a negligent mom who ignored mounting red flags about her son's behavior. >> she did not give him the help that he wanted. >> reporter: the defense arguing crumbley wasn't engaged barrett. >> no one could've expected this , including mrs. crumbley. >> reporter: legal experts say this case may have implications far beyond this courthouse. >> reporter: does this open the door for parents to be held accountable for mass shootings, school shootings, in the future? >> it absolutely does. i believe this will be used as persuasive president. >> reporter: but for steve st.

juliana, it's simply justice for his 14-year-old daughter, hana. >> reporter: anything you want to say to the jury? >> just thank you for using common sense. >> i want to welcome my friend fred guttenberg. he lost his beautiful 14-year-old daughter jaime in the parkland shooter almost six years ago to the day. fred, when i invite you on tv, it's usually not with good news . so i want to get your reaction tonight. when you heard this verdict tonight, how did it make you feel? i think you're muted, fred. i hear you now. >> okay, all right. listen, this verdict today, i can't say gamy satisfaction, because you can't remove it from what happened. but accountability matters. you know, listen, stephanie, when jaime was born 20 years ago, we had 200 million weapons

in america. today, 20 years later, we are over 400 million. we now have more guns than people. and when you look at school shootings, 76% of them are done by kids who get their guns from inside the home. we can't change the fact that there are 400 million weapons on our streets, but we can start holding those responsible, the parents, for allowing their kids to get the access that caused this kind of carnage. parents need to know. you have a responsibility to lock up your weapons. and if you don't, and if your child kills somebody, you will also go to prison. >> do you feel that today's decision is going to change parents behavior? i mean, even think about the way when you and i ran a high school, right, and the way underage drinking took place in peoples homes, how that's changed because parents today know that they're liable if

that happens in their home. do you think this verdict is going to change parents behavior ? >> not overnight. but it's a start. listen, we as a country of two curator our relationship with guns differently from this point forward. i'll say it again, we have over 400 million guns. the gun lobby, they got their way. 20 years ago, ar-15 sales were only 2% of gun sold. today, the 25%. parents must change their behavior, because the truth is we now live in a different environment when it comes to the numbers of these weapons that exist. and if parents don't change their behavior, then we must push congress to pass something like ethan's law or other types of state -- safe storage to ensure parents that have a responsibility and will be held to account by the law if they don't. >> the congress aside for a moment. i

know how hugely frustrating it is for you. does it give you hope that behaviors are changing? i mean, what does it tell you that in michigan, a gun friendly state, a jury voted unanimously to convict this mother? >> oh no, listen, stephanie, i think you know, having got to know me, my entire life going forward is finding a hope that we can do better. and when i see moments like this, it does give me hope. those are responsible adults. some of them may have been gun owners who held this person to account. and that just tells me that gun owners and non gun owners have had it, that they do want to live safely, that they do want their children to come home at the end of the day. and you know what, parents, they also want to be able to come home from work to their kids.

all day, i've been thinking of my friend, kristen song, whose sons ethan was killed within the same month as jaime, because i went to play at a friends home where a gun was unsecured. she has been a void -- a fighter for safe storage. as you, know i'm a senior adviser for brady. they have their own and family fire campaign. we are going to continue working tirelessly to get this work done, because your life, or the life of someone you love, may depend on it. and for me, that friend is worth it. >> and i'm grateful for your work, fred. you are working to keep my children safe after you lost your beautiful jaime. it's good to see you, thank you so much for joining me tonight. >> six years next week. >> six years next week, horrible. thank you, fred. when we come, back a failed impeachment vote, a rejected israel aid bill, and a self destructive border bill.

speaker johnson has had better. nights we will get into all the chaos in the house when the 11th hour continues. house whe 11th hour continues. and warms up to 13 degrees on either side for your ideal sleep temperature, and effortlessly responds to both of you. for your best sleep, night after night. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add an adjustable base. ends monday. shop for a limited time and sleep next level. only at sleep number.

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baby, buckle up for this one. house republicans ' effort to impeach homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas has officially failed. it happened just hours after senate republicans said they would kill the border security bill that would have delivered on key priorities for republicans. my colleague ryan nobles has all those details.

>> reporter: we have learned congressional republicans have effectively killed the 118 billion dollar bipartisan security funding package that included new measures to beef up border security. gop critics say that it is not tough enough to solve the migrant crisis. but president biden placed the blame squarely on opposition from former president trump. >> every day between now in november, the american people are going to know that the only reason the border is not secure is donald trump, and his maga republican friends. >> reporter: while republicans argue it is democrats who are playing politics. >> the objective of this bill was number one, to do nothing, to do zero to secure the border. but to let every democrat running for office say gosh, i wanted to secure the border. but those mean republicans would not let us. >> reporter: tonight, senate democrats telling us they will still hold a vote on the bill tomorrow. >> back with us tonight, robert gibbs, former white house press

secretary and senior campaign adviser to president obama. and michael steele, former chairman of the republican national committee and former lieutenant governor of maryland. he co-hosts "the weekend" right here on msnbc. michael, i almost want to hide under the desk because i feel like you are about to let it rip. i want to start in the house. before a speaker calls a vote, they whip them, they count them, to avoid this humiliation. what happens? failed votes on the mayorkas impeachment and the stand-alone israel bill. how does this even happen? >> on the mayorkas, i think it happens because they were probably too embarrassed to sort of not take the vote after all of the noise around it. they whipped their base up on this one. so they sort of backed themselves into a dumb corner that became a stupid corner very quickly for them. the reality was there was no

way out. they had to ultimately take the vote. but then what they can do is they will shift and blame the two republicans who voted to spare mayorkas the impeachment without evidence. so that was that. on the rest of it, i guess you do dumb and dumber tonight. i don't know how else to put it. it is just one of those evenings where you go okay, you really want to play stupid ball tonight and think this is going to be a winning argument, to go before the american people, with the democrats with the presidents imprint on it, get republicans in the senate to negotiate a deal that is republican friendly. oh, excuse me, not just republican friendly, conservative maga friendly, right? give them everything.

oh, let me think back, everything donald trump asked for when he was president. okay. here, have it. and they said, no, we do not want it. no, we do not want it, because trump was not want it now so we don't not want it. this is the epitome of feckless impossibly politically corrupt politics, that you scream about the border and you refuse to take the win when your political opponents give it to you. you have ted cruz talking about they just want to go out and say -- no, they are not going to say mean republicans, they will say ass-backwards stupid republicans, take the win. go out and push the democrats to getting and giving the american people what you think they need. but no, donald trump does not want joe biden for the win on this. so i guess joe biden, this is

going to have to win in november, on this. >> i told you we were going to wind you up. robert, let's go back to the mayorkas failed vote, the israel failed vote. isn't this sort of tale of the current republican party, yes, they whip up the base, but the base is not enough to pass anything. >> yes, absolutely. this is truly the most ineffective congress i think anybody can remember. i think on paper it pr is, in terms of getting things done. we are on the cusp of having to re-fund the government. so i think this is all just another disaster waiting to happen. i do think one of the most important things out of today, out of a lot of this last few days, i think you saw the president's statement today,

the president has to be able to take moments like this, fumbles like michael was talking about, be able to score points fot them. the nbc poll over the weekend showed he trailed over the -- trump trailed on the 16 points. his ability to take these types of events and turn them to his political advantage, because their whole offense are playing games and not solving problems is going to be exactly -- it well determine whether he gets reelected in november. >> michael let's talk about the priorities for the republicans, because they want to say it is the economy and the border. but michael just laid it out, polling shows voters do turn of the economy. but the economy is currently booming, and we have not even had any rate cuts yet, and we likely will before the election . so the border is kind of the only thing that republicans can

really brought on and bank on. does that mean there is absolutely no shot of anything getting done, right, like we're talking about this being feckless tuesday, is that gonna be what we are going to see out of congress for the next nine months? >> of course, that's exactly right. so not only did they not bank on it, they brought in the bank, the emptied the bank of any possibility to create an issue that would be a counter weight to what you're going to see on the economy, quite honestly, because you're absolutely right, when the fed, the fed is looking to move its timetable up from june to march, when it's first going to consider cutting interest rates. and so, that narrative starts. you then look at the job numbers growing and going in the right direction. where else do you pin it? so you pivot back to the border. you pivot to that thing. but now, when you go around and complain about the border, god forbid, there is an incident at

the border, or the numbers just drop dramatically. who are you going to look at? they can't look at joe biden exclusively anymore and say, well, your lack of a policy for the last three years was the cause of this. all biden's -- i gave you a way. i gave you a bill to fix it. and you said you didn't want it. so i mean, how do you then square that narrative? and it becomes much more problematic. oh, 90 threw on top of it abortion. [laughter] and then it becomes this heavier, heavier burden for the gop, the message. now, i will say, and robert knows where i'm coming from when i say this, democrats eat the best at counter messaging. [laughter] so they need to go back to do a little bit of regrouping and studying how you actually message against your political opponents when they're taking knives and shoving them in their own eyes. >> robert, michael brings up a

really good point. you said joe biden has to take advantage of these moments. how? today alone, donald trump said that all the president needs to do is close the border. an expense bill is even necessary. but that's a lie. donald trump trying to close the border, and the courts blocked him. but how does joe biden, in this age of misinformation and not such hot messaging, how does he get the truth out? >> well, i think he's got to take what he said today on the road. i mean, look, stephanie, the first thing i do, is that fly to eagle pass and do this. do it on the border. like conservative border patrol union that endorsed donald trump endorsed this bill because they said it would be better than what they are dealing with right now. go press this issue. take it on the road. go to communities where it hurts. after you leave eagle pass, land in arizona, it's a swing state. you are going to have to do this, you're going to have to

keep doing this over and over and over and over again, and driving at home. because unfortunately, most people are not watching this constantly. they're just now getting this information. and i've got to drive this every single day. >> the truth matters, but only if you hear it. robert, michael, thank you both for being here tonight. when we come back, our next guest is coined the election whisperer. but she thinks democrats need to do to win the ballot box, on the 11th hour continues.

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♪ ♪ ♪ let's check in on nevada's presidential primary. here's where things stand tonight. no surprise, your nbc is projecting president biden to win. it is his second after scoring a win in south carolina over the weekend. and on the republican side, it is too early to call. voters have the choice of nikki haley or none of the candidates. donald trump is not on this ballot. but remember, the states 26 republican delegates will not be awarded in tonight's primary. instead, they will be given to the winner of thursday gop caucus, where nikki haley is not on the ballot. meanwhile, governor gavin newsom has this advice for the biden campaign. >> the point of the campaign is to tout a record. and when you look at the chips and science act, the packed at, the safer communities act, the -- debt deal, you look at all

the work that's been done on the green energy and the i.r.a., everything this administration is accomplished in just three years. we have the facts. they don't. we have the policies, they don't. we have the record, they don't. they have rhetoric. it's time to get back on the offensive and start to feel good again, a little joy. >> you know we always have room for joy at this hour, as they try to motivate the broad coalition that elected president biden in 2020 to show up again in 2024. here's the challenge, polling shows that in the hypothetical biden trump matchup, donald trump has widened's lead to five points. with us for more, the election whisper, political strategist rachel bitecofer. her new book hit him where it hurts: how to save democracy by beating republicans at their own game. it is out today. and i'm thrilled to have you here. this book is filled with advice for democrats, specifically heading into this election. what is your number one piece

of advice? the administrations washing. >> i think it's this, right. when republicans go low, we have to hit him where it hurts. we can't return with sanity, policy, waukee conversations. we have to come back with a motive, simplistic soundbite talking point rhetoric that's intentionally hyperbolic, like there's, so that we can offset this asymmetry. it's very difficult for us to compete with the republican message. if you look at swing races that we've, lost like tim ryan in ohio, val demings down in florida, we ran perfect campaigns, moderates, centrist, i'm an ex cop, i'm going to work across the aisle, and then ron desantis ran a maga style campaign, yet he still won swing voters. so i think it's very important for people to recognize the things that we, as liberals, don't think we'll work or don't like actually are quite effective in the broader

electorate. >> well, the current president, president biden, you know, stands for decency. he stands for good. >> right. >> he gets a lot of criticism for his age. and you and i can't say he's basically the same age as donald trump, we can say it's a just, but it's something we hear in polling time and again. you heard that very effective messaging from the likes of gavin newsom. should the biden campaign kind of rolling out the next generation of democrats, like the avengers, gavin newsom, gretchen whitmer, andy beshear, these superstars that are great at messaging and know how to punch? >> no, i definitely think he should. i think they should go with an aggressive surrogate strategy the cycle. and we know that we have some proof that hit them where they herds winners in gretchen whitmer, gavin newsom, john fetterman. there's so many in that democratic bench, it's so deep, which is why if we would've had a primary it, would've been a very competitive primary. so utilizing those people i think is very important.

but i do want to point out, and this is in relation to what michael steele was saying in the previous segment, democrats have pivoted. we are sitting in a world in which this process and this strategy has been deployed on the map in 2022. and where was deployed, in arizona and michigan, we walked the gop's but. they had no answer for it, because of the end of the day, if we go to tell swing voters these people are extremists, who are coming for your freedom, it is going to be a very powerful message in 2024. >> when you think about this big tent party, right, president biden has to get a whole lot of people out there excited, and excited to vote for him. we know that we have heard from a lot of progressives, a lot of young progressives, they're uninspired, they're not excited. some of them are downright angry. what does the president do to reach out to those more progressive voices, answer some of their priorities while at the same time not move too far from where he is and lose those

swing voters, lose those independents? >> well, there is danger in the idea of delivery and benefit. so look at student loan reform. that is not something centrist democrats were interested in pursuing. biden did that for the progressive base. and you know, there's not really any benefit for that. they're not thanking biden for that. it's kind of like what have you done for me lately, right? so i do know that the youth disaffection over gaza is going to be a huge issue. but at the same time, people have to understand most humans, and that's the most important point of the book, most people are not us, they're not watching the 11th hour, unfortunately. >> not true. >> they don't know who mike johnson is, like, average americans, right? so when i go into a store and i talk to people about politics, they don't know that the republican party controls the house. they don't know why the impeachment failed for trump. they don't understand that actually, the republican senators weren't bound to that. >> so what do you do for that? >> so what you do is you assemble -- you have rough

play. we're not gonna fix the clay. [laughter] but what we have to do is meet it where it is. so the strategy and devolves her becomes totally different. our strategy previously is let me appeal to you on policy specifics and try to win you over to my side. and what the strategy now is let me make sure that you know what the modern republican party stands for. because voters are telling us again and again in data that they still think the republican party stands for good on the economy and good on national defense. and we've been watching politics for the last 20 years, we know that the republican party has not been good on either those issues. so it really is about redefining who those republicans are and making sure that people who are violating their oath of office aren't able to run on the mantle of being a moderate. >> rough clay. rachel bitecofer has signed off this evening, giving us the vision of joe biden and kamala harris in a major motion picture ghost. thank you very much. rachel, great to see you.

and on that note, i wish you a very, very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with me. i'll see you at the end of tomorrow. you at the end of tomorrow.

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tonight on all in. >> a court has denied trump's argument. >> the d.c. circuit court makes its ruling. >> for the purpose of this criminal case, former president trump has become citizen trump. >> citizen trump should stand trial for january 6th.