i am julián castro, in for leishman than this. we begin tonight with a busy night ahead in fulton county, georgia, ordeal for bay and company will once again face the music on racketeering charges. tomorrow's the last eight for defendants to waive their appearances at the arraignment. only seven of trump's 18 coconspirators are expecting to be court on wednesday. trump and the rest have already pleaded not guilty, waving their right to appear in person. the judge will read the charges, and likely set a trial date, which could be as soon as october 23rd. keep an eye on this, because while many defendants are

pushing for a speedy trial,'s others are asking to move venue to federal court, in washington d.c.. and then thursday, fulton county's district attorney, fani willis, faces jim jordan's deadline to submit documents about her case to congress. as we've reported, she is now the target in the investigation by their public and lead house judiciary committee. and then on friday, the dea will finally release the special grand jury report. and, while georgia is just one of four pending trials for trump, his campaign for president carries on. that has many people on both sides of the aisle wondering if the 14th amendment can, and should, be used to bar trump from running. here is what former impeachment manager adam schiff said about that, earlier today. >> well you know, the 14th amendment, and section three is pretty clear. if you engage in action of insurrection or rebellion against the government, or you give aid and comfort to those who do, you are disqualified from running. it doesn't require for you to be convicted of an

insurrection. it just requires that you have engaged in these acts, it's a disqualification from holding office again. and, it fits donald trump to 80. >> joining me now, msnbc contributor and former watergate prosecutor -- she is a co-host of the hashtag sisters in law podcast, and authors of the watergate girl. also with me, nbc news justice reporter ryan reilly. and also, former republican congressman charlie dent, of pennsylvania. he is the executive director of the aspen institute of congressional programs. thank you all for joining me. jill, i want to start with you. secretaries of state have been some of the first to discuss the 14th amendment case against trump. but, michigan's top elections official says it's not really in their hands. take a listen. >> the secretaries of state in various states, may make an initial statement. there are four qualifications, or, within the balance of our

30. the ultimate decider in this case is going to be the courts, and really the ultimate court to resolve this will be the united states supreme court. and in that regard, we hope that decision, however it makes its way to the, court comes sooner rather than later. >> so, talk us through the legal pathways for barring trump from the ballot. >> so julián, it seems like all of the federal people who have weighed in on it, as well as laurence tribe, but also judge -- and two professors. have all said that the 14th amendment, section three, means, without any kind of fiction, or even indictment, that a person can be barred from running. and the first step is secretaries of state, who say, he can't go on the ballot, or qualify. so they get to say the first word in that. but, that will be appealed by anybody who is barred from being on the ballot. and so, it will work its way up the court system, and

ultimately, joscelyn benson is correct, it will make it to the supreme court, who will have the final say on whether or not. but, it does seem like the 14th amendment is very clear, and was intended to keep any of the members of the confederacy from holding office, if they held office while they were engaged in the insurrection against the united states. so, i think that it's pretty clear that it does bar them. and i am optimistic, on the other hand, you can imagine what could happen if the shooter on the other foot. there is going to be accusations, without foundation, of wrongdoing by democrats. the difference is that here, there is clear evidence. and that makes a difference, to me. >> >> and ryan, the fulton county special grand jury wrapped up nine months ago now. so, why are we just getting the report now? and when we get it on friday, what are you going to be

looking for, in it? >> you know, i think we need to see a bigger picture of what exactly they are looking at. potentially some of the evidence that they looked at, revealed there. but, we have a pretty good narrative, seeking indictment already, about the activity that we are talking about. here so, well it's interesting to see how the grand jury went about that, a lot of this is already in the public record, whether the in the january 6th committee report, or whether it be in some of the indictments that have come out thus far. so, a lot of this did happen in public, just as with january six, a lot of this was documented by the people who were doing it themselves. so i think that while there should be some interesting components to it, i don't know if it's going to necessarily shatter the narrative about what we already know. because the facts that we already know, have been enough for people to go forward with these complaints. so, i think the biggest thing this week will be the trial, and when they are set for. because, that can really have some big implications going forward, especially if those cases go for without trump,

with some of his codefendants, that gives trump's team a little bit of a preview of what they could expect, when his case eventually gets to trial. but really, kicking the can down the road, i think is their overall strategy, from the trump team here, seeking to delay these as much as possible. and in the federal cases, they were seeking 2026, as their trial date. they ultimately didn't get, and he will go to trial in a federal case next year, barring any unfortunate circumstances. but, i think overall, there is they're just gonna be trying to delay this as much as possible, even though some of his codefendants are trying to step on the gas, and get this to trial as quickly as they. ken >> and charlie, let's go from fulton county to your old stomping grounds of washington d.c.. house republicans are back, they are targeting trump prosecutors with their letter to d.a. willis. and in fact, weigh-ins and means chair -- now says the gop can't allow a budget crisis to jeopardize their work. take a listen to what he had to say. >> if funding is installed, if

there is a government shutdown, that would stop all of these investigations. that is absolutely the wrong thing. the american people deserve a government that is working for them, and we have to continue these investigations. >> how might this shape the negotiations on capitol hill? >> but look, every year at this time, around september 30th, the government needs to pass resolutions, to fund the government from september 30th, to sometime in the middle of december. if the congress fails to pass a resolution, then the government shuts down. and really, the congress then ceases to operate. other than trying to get the government reopened. so, it would be very difficult for congress to conduct any business, other than, they're going to reopen the government. so here holding hearings of any type, whether it's on joe biden, or hunter biden, or anything else. that is going to have to wait, until they reopen. so, hopefully it will be a long shutdown. but if there is, one i suspect

they're going to be out of business on those investigations, at least -- >> and jill, speaking of a revenge, trump has barely toned down his threats on social media. he recently demanded an eye for an eye, in a video address for republicans. what would actually count as violating his bond, in fulton county? >> i think a lot of people want to, know what does he have to do to get into trouble here? >> it's not just fulton county. remember, judge chutkan also warned him about threatening witnesses, or codefendants. and, i'm afraid that he is supporting the line. and, obviously, and the judge is going to be very careful, before stopping a candidate for president from commenting on evidence. but, it's when he gets to the threatening part, when he starts threatening his opponent, but that doesn't count as a

trial. it's only when he threatens a witness, or a codefendant, that he will be violating it. and then the question is, what can a judge do? because really, there is very little, except for incarcerating him. and judges are not going to want to do that. a fine is not going to work. if it did, he wouldn't have a second defamation case against e jean carroll, by e. jean carroll, rather. because after the first sentence, and the find that he got, you would have thought he wouldn't have impeded the same defamation. but he did. so money, which he is raising from people who are making small donations, it's not his money that is paying the fines, it is their money. so, it is not going to stop him, it's gonna take something more then a fine to stop him from saying these horrible things. >> charlie, presidential candidate nikki haley today, claimed trump is going to lose, if he is convicted. take a listen.

>> the american people are not going to vote for a convicted criminal. the american people are going to vote for somebody who can win a general election. i have faith in the american people. they know what they need to do. >> this seems to be the central gamble in the republican race. do you think trump's rivals are betting the right way? >> well i think many of his rivals have made a fundamental miscalculation. it's political malpractice, by not going after trump, authoritatively, and directly, the moment he was indicted in the first in new york. but, we can have a great debate, whether or not he is going to -- but i think it's fair to say, as chris chrystia said, that this represents a terrible lapse of judgment, against the former president. the his judgment has been horrendous, his conduct which was quite clear, even if it may not be criminal. you know, paying the hush money payment to a porn star, recklessly handling classified materials. election interference in

georgia, and of course all of the issues surrounding january six. so i think they are right to point out that trump is too great of a risk to be the republican nominee. i don't know when that's going to set him, or a lot of the republican base, when they see that this guy is clearly a problem, with independent and swing voters. in fact, i can't think of one independent who say, boy, these indictments are terrific, i think when you vote for that day. i don't think that's the way it's going to work. yes, the hardest elements of the trump base might think this is a terrific thing, but they are fighting the system. but, i think a lot of swing voters around this country are going to be repulsed by a man who has been indicted four times, and possibly convicted. so i think, -- is probably right. at some point, this whole dynamic might change. it's not changing right now in the primary, but it will certainly change in the general election. >> well, let's see if this signals the beginning of more aggressiveness, against trump from his rivals. jill, thank you. ryan, and congressman dan, good to see you always.

still to come, the former leader of the proud boys is about to face a judge, for sentencing. wait until you hear how long prosecutors want to put him away for, for his role in january 6th. plus, president biden has strayed from saying donald trump's name. but that's about to change, according to new reporting. and later, the breaking news in nevada. tens of thousands are stranded in the desert, after torrential rains cut off roads. one person, has died. we will get an update from the scene. but first, to -- richard with the other big stories we are tracking this hour. on msnbc. >> thank you julián. convicted murderer who escaped from a pennsylvania prison thursday, was spotted in new surveillance video. danelo -- was convicted of first degree murder, and was sentenced to life in prison. he was seen a mile a half away from the philadelphia area prison. he is considered extremely dangerous, police urge those with information to call 9-1-1. a big shape in ukraine's leadership. ukraine's president says he will replace his defense

minister, alexei reznikov, who is under scrutiny for mishandling military contracts. this is the first major change to leadership since russia's invasion. almost one and a half years ago. and, jimmy buffett's cause of death, now revealed. the margaritaville singer songwriter died after a four-year battle with skin cancer. an obituary on his website, said he continued to perform well receiving treatment, jimmy buffett was 76. -- right after this. break t after this brea hopping? you should watch your spending honey. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. check it out, you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, i'll look into that. let me put a reminder on my phone. save $700 dollars. pick up dad from airport? ohhhhhh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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astrazeneca may be able to help. here's why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your devie duckduckgo comes with a built n engine like google, but it's pi and doesn't spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. and there's no catch, it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. >> trump's criminal case in

georgia is not the only ego are watching this. week on thursday, former leader of the proud boys, will face sentencing for his role on january 6th attack at the capitol. prosecutors are seeking more than 30 years in prison. four of the proud boys have already been sentenced for their roles in the attacks, all of them receiving between ten and 20 years in federal prison. one defendant dominic pezzola who was accused of smashing through a capitol window with a riot shield. he was a filed after being taken away in handcuffs after raising his fist saying trump won. ryan riley is back with us. his new book, sedition hunters, is out next month. ryan, prosecutors are asking the judge to hand theo a 33 -year prison sentence. yet, the other four defendants have received senators have ranged from 10 to 20 years.

why do you think that is? what are you looking for in this hearing? >> we're not expecting to get that for 33 years, just because it's how the judges have decided other cases. of, course the really interesting thing about enrique tarrio cases, he's wasn't actually at the capitol on january six, he was arrested in connection with a previous event. there is these two events after the 2020 election in d. c., including one in which he was burning of the flag, he actually ended up being arrested for just before january six when he came back into town. after he came back on that flight, he was at a baltimore hotel on january six, prosecutors say because of the role he played in organizing all of this and knowing what was going to happen he even filled the venue called premonition outside of the capitol in a spooky, motifs and the masked up. they think he was a major part of, this even though he

actually wasn't on the battleground so the speak on january six itself. he was a key leader and. this, but just given the sound as a judge kelly has handed down thus far, target imagined him approaching that. i'm very curious to figure out whether or not he ends of going above or beyond at 18 years. 18 years is the current record. there is a tie for that. one proud boys and one member of the oath keepers have both received 18 years in federal prison. federal prison time is not the same a state time. you really only, have to serve 85. there's only so much good timing can get. you get credit for the time you already served, but it's real time, and so 18 years isn't much much you achieving of even if you are an obedient emit in federal prison. >> let's go back to dominic pezzola for a second. of all of the fans in the proud boys trial, he was the only one not convicted of seditious conspiracy. what do you make of that?

>> what was interesting because he was not as involved in some of the pre-planning as the other four defendants were convicted. so, you can sort of follow the jury's logic there that he was a route was brought in the last minute but wasn't in some of those cute discussions. it's always interesting when you see the story cases, because there's been such this talk about d. c. juries cannot decide these cases fairly. then, you see they make some really educated and well thought out decisions like this, deciding that, government ties proof beyond the reasonable doubt that these individuals committed acts of conspiracy. really, that supports the prosecution's case on appeal, because it really shows that jurors were careful about what they were, and not just buying that prosecutors were arguing. individualized decisions for individual defendants based upon evidence. it really boost the idea that jurors are deciding these cases

fairly overall, and helps the government on appeal. >> in the minute that we have left, you covered this case and these key players for a long time, have you noticed any change in their allegiance to trump? as we know many of the capital said they were sent by trump. >> there definitely is a switch in the categories in people who have realized they were fooled that these conspiracy theories that they believed are not true. but, it's really tough for others to accept that, and the sort of line with it dominic pezzola if, you heard what he told the judge, you heard what his family members spoke to, you would not think he's fully in the boat. he was talking about getting out of politics and gets what a lot of the defendants speak to, but then he goes and does that sort of move after his wife refers to him as a idiot, he goes and says trump won as he was at the door. that's going to help him obviously with some of the january six committee and two trump heroes and folk there.

at the end of the day, he's going to be doing a lot of time behind bars, and it's not going to be seeing the family he spoke so much about for a number of years. >> and d. c.'s ryan riley, thank you for sticking around. just a reminder, ryan's new book, sedition hunters, we'll be back on october 17th. right after the break, a strategy shift for the biden campaign. when you think about it, the president has treated trump like the voldemort of american politics. he who must not be named. but, we have new reporting, suggesting that that is going to change. later, insult to injury, this hurricane season. a real slap in the face to store owners -- they get insurance for a reason. so, why are more and more companies refusing to cover their claims? from big cities, to small towns, and on main streets across the us, you'll find pnc bank. helping businesses both large and small, communities and the people who live and work there

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and there's no catch. it's fre. we make money from ads, but they don't follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. >> a new week, a new strategy by biden's campaign to take on trump. say trump's name, or at least more. as you probably noticed, president does not talk about

trump that much, at least not directly. he's declined to comment on trump's growing legal troubles, the president has also taken the high road on mountain of attacks from trump. the presidency, his son, hunter, but, that's not more. according to new reporting, one of biden's advisers tells nbc news that after labor day, expect to hear the president make more of a direct contrast which trump. tonight, we also need to talk about young voters. as it stands now, enthusiasm is low, and many are not thrilled about the possibility of another match between biden and trump. new polling shows just 47% of 18 to 29 year old would vote for biden right now. 37% say they would choose trump. one high-profile republican today questioned whether either candidate will make it past the primaries. >> i think there is a good shot that neither of them are actually on that ballot. i think trump can very much lose if they win it down to one and one.

i think is a lot of issues that are going to have to bear with president biden over the past year and a lot of opportunity for democrats to find another candidate. but, to the no labels point, there is an opportunity there like never before. >> former republican congressman charlie dent is back, and joining us is also a democrat strategist, kristal knight, she's the former political director of -- founding executive director of emerge tennessee. congressman, i want to start off with your response to what we just heard. i think it's a bit of a stretch four soon to suggest biden is not going to make it past the primary. and what do you make of his mention of the political organization no labels, which once established their own third party candidate, do you think there's any real chance of a third party candidate actually winning in 2024? >> let me say that no labels is actually in the business right there of trying to secure ballot access for a potential

candidate. there is no candidate right now. they're talking about a ticket, a republican and democrat, i'm not sure which one will be top of the ticket. but, that's what they're talking about, because they've identified something in the political marketplace that's very real. most americans, probably two thirds of americans do not want joe biden and donald trump to be running for office. they want something new, something fresh, and if there is ever a time for independent move like the one no labels is talking about, it is right now. so, i think that's really the issue. the no labels project will probably go away if donald trump is not the republican dominated. but, he is, so i suspect they will go forward and it's important that we have some competition in place to do something to shake up a few parties, that have been really bending for the most extreme elements of their party for much of the past few years. >> kristal, in 2020 65% of voters between the ages of 18

and 24 between ages of 18 and 24. former democratic chair weighed in today on getting young voters to vote democrat this time around. take a listen to what she said. >> the biggest challenge we face is democrats, i say we because i am a democrat, except, young voters, young black and latino voters, they're not ready to come back to the party. they are not even looking at the so-called messaging that's being sent to them about the economy, about climate change, about student debt through these. they are worried about their future. right, now they're looking for a leader who represents their values and their visions. >> do you worry that many disillusioned young voters will either vote third-party or not at all in the upcoming election? . what do democrats need to do to make sure that neither one of those things happen? >> i'm not necessarily worried about voters, younger voters not turning out. i'm more concerned about the messaging that this administration is sending to young voters. when you talk about student

loan repayments that are coming back, that's something that young voters are thinking about. abortion is another big issue that has showed younger voters between 18 and 45 care about that issue, a longer climate change, we saw with the first gop primary debate that candidates were asked about climate change, many of them on the stage decided they did not think it's real. that is not something, and we heard the boos in the audience, that is something that this administration, the democratic party has to continue drilling in and messaging on if they want to see young voters turnout. i don't think they will stay home, i think they're waiting and deciding who actually cares about what they care about, who cares about their economic situation, and who has the best answer moving into 2024 about what we can do to turn out to more voters. >> how democrats approach that could be fundamental to their fortunes in 2024. as you say. kristal, you also mentioned

earlier about how president biden has avoided talking about trump until now. what do you think the strategy is there and what do you make of this news that there will be a shift in the coming weeks? >> i am glad that they are planning to make the shift after this holiday weekend. but, i think up until now, trump has a number of legal battles that he's battling. so, if the president got into the business of commenting after every single thing, every single indictment that came about, there was never be into the new stories. there is so many things are at the developing and unfolding. there are many defendants in the fulton county case. so, i think it has been the right strategy of the team to not say anything and mention trump. what we already know is that he loves leading attention, and so the more times of his name is mentioned, the more he can use those sounds to attack. i think as we move out of the holiday season into the holiday

weekend, it is important for americans to understand what joe biden has done over the past two and a half years, and what he will do moving into 2024, and to make this contrast between a former president trump and all of the things that come with him, all the challenges all the legal woes, and even if he has the opportunity, committing the march case b for us, we don't know the outcome of the case will be, particularly around what happened on january 6th. so, those are things we have to think about. >> charlie, one more question before we leave. in light of labor day, president biden published calling on congress to pass legislation that would make it easier for workers to organize and join a union with the senate reconvening on tuesday. do you expect to see any action on this? >> in congress, no, but the national relation boy as far as i can tell is trying to make it easier to form a union without a secret ballot vote.

i do think this is very unpopular. if there is going to be a union to take an effort in this company and if the workers and the company want to organize, there must be a secret ballot vote. in the from, what i can tell, they're trying to maneuver and whether they can avoid those types of secret ballot elections. do not expect congress to pass something on like the old hard check bill that really never made it through congress. democrats had full control of the congress as well as presidency during the obama administration. >> kristal and congressman, thank you both. as mentioned, it's labor day tomorrow and here on msnbc, a holiday marathon documentaries. it all begins at four pm with all six episode of leguizamo americas, followed by an encore -- when truth is in truth, the really giuliani story. that begins at ten pm eastern. you will not want to miss it. next, the pending crisis for homeowners in states like florida and california.

as natural disasters racked up, some insurance companies are pulling out. so, what is going on? later, if you are surprised by the racist shooting in jacksonville, you have not been paying attention according to reverend william barber. he will join us with how hateful rhetoric is fueling acts of hate. get help reaching your goals with j.p. morgan wealth plan, a digital money coach in the chase mobile® app. use it to set and track your goals, big and small... and see how changes you make today... could help put them within reach. from your first big move to retiring poolside - and the other goals along the way. wealth plan can help get you there. ♪ j.p. morgan wealth management.

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have not heard back. organizers have issued a shelter in place at the festival, except for emergency services right now. no vehicles are allowed in or out. the airport there is also closed. people have been told to conserve food, water, and fuel. i spoke to a woman who is at burning man right now. she stuck there like so many other burners. she said it could be days until she's able to get out. they're confined to little camp right now and not able to move around because there's just so much mud, it's almost impossible to walk through. others have been able to escape, including some celebrities. dj diplo and comedian chris rock had to hike out for miles. they ended up hitchhiking, grounding oh ride from strangers. if la posada on twitter. now, a concern is that more rain is on the way. a flash flood watches in effect until monday. but, in the batter energy says they are working with the emergency responders right now to try and wrist accurate people and get them out. the delivering for portable

cell stations to try and get people cell signal. people do seem to be trying to get the best of it, they're taking it all in stride. organizers say weather permitting is still plan to hold the burning of the man on the player there on sunday night. back to you. >> nbc's, liz kreutz, thank you. now, to florida and other states hit by natural disasters. 2023 has seen some of the most costly natural disasters on record. as a result, insurance companies are losing billions, and it is truly costing homeowners from florida to california. either their rates are rising to unaffordable levers, or insurance companies are pulling out of their state altogether. and d. c.'s marissa prada takes a look at what's going on. >> from coast to coast, stream weather by wind, water, and flame, is battering homes on the insurance rates meant to protect them. hurricane idalia just the latest on to cause billions and

damage, but the cost to insurance premium remains to be seen. >> it doesn't look like we can save it but i'm not sure yet. >> florida resident amy said her premiums had already doubled before idalia, making hurricanes rough twice as painful when the hotels she owned was destroyed. >> it's one of the issues in florida. mother nature does what it once and we have to just rebuild and hope insurance can help us out with. it >> for millions of americans in florida and around the country, help is no longer available. in recent months, insurance companies began scaling back or even pulling out altogether. states like california, louisiana, and of course florida. these force homeowners like me king to roll the dice and go without coverage completely. >> what do you do a fair catch fire is barreling towards your home? >> pray. then you have to choose whether you're going to ride out the storm and try and see what you can or hope everything is okay. >> in 2022 alone, 18 disaster

events cost the u.s. over 177 billion dollars. that is smelling disaster for insurance rates. states like florida have seen the average homeowners insurance premiums skyrockets by 200% since 2019. the rise in just felt in those specific states, nationwide, home insurance rates have risen more than 20% since 2015. >> the problem is accelerating. >> they've judges once in sharon's commissioner california, a state that seem to have their top five largest property insurers pulled back just within the past year. natural disasters like wildfires and higher insurance premiums. jones, now the had a climate risk initiative, berkeley school of law, says these interns rioters had been looming for years. >> when i was commissioner, we started seeing an increase in non-renewal, in the area of highest risk of wildfires. it's become a lot more acute more recently.

does >> any of the spies you? >> sadly, i'm not surprised. you can see trying for some time, we're just not doing enough. >> insurance industry experts side a perfect storm of climate change and lawsuits by policyholders. just this summer alone, both farmer insurance and aaa have receded from helping home to the state of florida. with less availability, some 15% of homeowners in the sunshine shaped have surgeon to counsel their policies as the highest rate of uninsured homes in the entire country. as more states beyond those most disaster prone feel the impact of damaging weather events, jones warrants it is not just homes that are becoming harder to protect. >> its auto ensures, its business insurance, it has a very wide-ranging effect on consumers. it's causing us to march towards an uninsured future. >> if you do that for many americans is already here. >> that was nbc's marissa reporting. work american voices after the break. but first, a preview of what's ahead later tonight. >> hey there, tonight at nine

eastern on ayman, this week, trump took a pastry from the authoritarian playbook, vowing to lock up political opponents if he wins in 2024. they roadmap to do it is already in the works. authoritarianism expert sarah kenzy or will be here, joined by charles coleman, and jennifer more. that is tonight, nine eastern, right here on msnbc. my husband and i have never been more active. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome

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president biden addressed the deadly shooting in jacksonville, that claimed three lives. he called it a terrorist act driven by racial hatred. and said it must be announced. the fbi of course investigating the attack as a hate crime. as we reported a white gunman opened fire at $1 general

store. targeting people of color before taking his own life. he left behind a disgusting manifesto that made it abundantly clear he hated black people. the attack was horrific and despicable. but it was far from a surprise if you asked my next guest. -- reverend william barber writes this of the jacksonville shooting, quote, if this event surprised you, you're not paying attention, we have hateful rhetoric coming out of the mouths politicians at the highest levels in florida every day, from the governor, former president, it's hate against black history, hey -- hate against immigrants. reverend barber is with us now. he's president of the powers breach, and co-chair of the poor people campaign. reverend, thank you for joining us. you argue that this type of hate that we saw in jacksonville doesn't happen in a vacuum. let's talk about how hateful

words from so-called leaders actually fuel this kind of violence? >> thank you so much. we never can look at this as an anomaly, or just one person, one of the best things that the sheriff said was that this person knew what they were doing. this is a long history. if you look at the days post slavery when people want to have violent actions they began with alec -- 1898 there was a riot in wilmington. it started by -- going over the seat spewing hateful rhetoric and what would happen if black leaders stayed in office. if you look at 1914, 1915, woodrow wilson played birth of a nation, a movie that honor the klan, denounced the reconstructionist. he said it was lightning and a bomb. in a few years you had -- red summer, where black people run at a town, killed, and murdered, you can trace it down to the southern strategy where we need to use language that creates positive polarization.

it make it out of hand, will deny when it does. this is what we need to do. over and over again we've got the rhetoric. look at ronald reagan's rhetoric, when he started his campaign in mississippi, philadelphia, talking about black bucks with how stakes stealing from the rest of us. go bowden and trace what happened during that time. here we have in florida from the governor, all across the country, legislative, government spewing hate. that i would say the power of life and death is in the tang. it's not so much who killed these three people but what. dr. king when he buried for little girls that were killed september of 1963, he said every politician that spoke in against violence and racism are a part of what helped to create, and it's the same today. >> and florida we've seen a whitewashing of our shared history and the silencing of the lgbtq+ community. how did these attacks on black history and where i didn't

create a dangerous atmosphere in florida and america? >> in two ways at least. one of the reasons like frank reed and others are coming together this coming thursday to announce a call for repentance and confession, and prayer. they're gonna have a massive rally on the 16th, 17th -- cease and desist, resign. and then calling for people to mobilize as they walk towards -- the attack on the trans people, the black people, black history. what it is first and foremost as a distraction from the real issues. desantis and others want them talking about them. because you don't want to talk about how he's a failed governor when it comes to addressing the non-million poor people and low income -- 4 million people in florida who make less than minimum wage,

millions of people without health care. you use this as a distraction to keep from talking about that. but what it does in addition to keeping you from focusing on the real issue is it gives light miss, atmospheric license in the ethos -- if these people are the problem and they're the other, not us, get rid of us. this gunman goes to a historically black college and university. what -- dismissing history. turning away from a. that's why we need to be very clear and focus especially now. what they don't want to talk about a 60 years after martha washington, we don't have a living wage that would live 55 million people out of poverty and low well.

we still don't have health care for everybody, it would give 87 million people health care, many people don't have health care today. we have real problems that we need to be addressing. but those that don't want to address them they focus on division, distraction, the problem is they can also be quite deadly when it gets in the mind. and lastly, it's not just white folk, i want to say that on msnbc. i'm not giving anyone a pass. in florida, two of the persons who helped desantis write his policy or black. black educators -- it doesn't matter if you're black, white, if you are lying about history, lying about trans people, lying about women, it's a distraction. if you're part of it, you're part of. it doctor can get the same thing. he called out back black that were crying in 1963 as a reason for why those four girls in the top that. it's time for repentance, concession, seizing and

assisting, and if you can't you need to resign, if you don't resign the people need to rise up, mobilize, -- and send people home. so, they don't have the microphone to spread this. >> in the minute or so we have left, you wrote quote, a low voter turnout results and promoters of violence being elected. people stay home and extremists come into power. how can the power of the ballot help reign in hateful rhetoric and actions? >> [inaudible] in florida. if there's three to 4% of income people were to vote, and they were to vote their gender, vote for the people who care about living wage, and the ones that don't. they could send any candidate home that could change the election. there's not a state in the south where 20% of poor -- had not voted that could not shift the election. 19% in north carolina. 70% in georgia. 12% and -- the numbers are there.

1% of michigan. we have the power to shut this down. what you can't do is dismiss it. you can't ignore it. it's time for truth and love to take back the mic and say, we won't accept this, we won't have the mic alone anymore because our silence isn't a former betrayal. it enables and empowers. we have the power to shut it down. we just got to speak. lastly, it hebrew the root for vote -- it's called call, the same word for vote is the same word and hebrew. we do use our voice. >> reverend barber, thank you so much for joining us. that's it for today. and for this weekend. i'm julián castro filling in for alicia menendez. thank you for spending your sunday with. as we share to follow the show on twitter, instagram, and tiktok at alicia on msnbc. and alicia will be back next weekend with more american voices. but after the short break it's time for inside with jen psaki. have a great night. e, react, restock. ♪

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