a reminder that you can listen to every episode of the show as a podcast for free. search for inside with jim psaki wherever you get your podcasts. we will be back here next sunday at noon eastern. stay with -- there is much more news coming up on msnbc. nbc. >> tonight on the mehdi hasan show. from nixon to trump, the cost of loyalty to a criminal president. we will get into the new charges and new defendant in the classified documents case. plus, conservative justice samuel alito says that the supreme court cannot be regulated. clearly somebody who is not read the constitution. and it just a stop. that is the mention from some black conservatives to run desantis as he defends teaching the benefits of slavery. ♪ ♪ ♪

good evening. i am mehdi hasan. have you heard of the rosemary woods stretch? it is named after this woman, rosemary woods. the longtime secretary of richard nixon. woods became her career with nixon in 1950, went long before his time with the white house. she was so close to the family the nixon's daughters referred to her as aunt rose. in 1974, route woods was thrust into the national spotlight during the watergate scandal when investigators discovered a mysterious 18 and a half gap on one of the tapes handed over from the nixon white house. the tape was believed to contain a conversation between president nixon and his chief of staff three days after the watergate break-in. woods took responsibility for that gap. she tried to explain it away as an accident. as she tells, it she was simply transcribing the tape at her desk when the phone rang. as she reached for the phone, she mistakenly struck the wrong key on the recorder while her foot was on the machines pedal. the motion ended up somehow destroying the tapes content.

she was later asked to demonstrate that stretch, resulting in this now infamous photo. not many people bought her story, and it's largely six factored that nixon was behind the deletion. why am i telling you about this? it is something that carlos de oliveira might want to google. as of thursday, de oliveira became -- to the latest character in donald trump's story legal saga. when he was named as the third defendant in the first ever federal criminal case against former president. the doj hit him with four charges, including conspiracy to obstruct justice, making false statements, and corruptly altering, destroying, or mutilating a document or other objects. in echoes of nixon and rosemary woods, he is accused of trying to delete surveillance camera footage at mar-a-lago. the 56 year old -- for more than a decade, rising up to the ranks -- rising up the ranks to the position of property manager.

deliver is not your typical member of the ex presidents inner circle. people close to him describe -- as a person who came to the u.s. from portugal to seek a better life. that is one of -- quote, he is not familiar with how the government here works. he was probably just being loyal to his boss, who is paying his bills. the family feels like he got trapped. de oliveira is set to appear in front of a miami judge tomorrow for his arraignment. just today, nbc news learned that he is not yet secured a florida-based lawyer. the new superseding indictment -- for federal prosecutors describing it as a plot by trump, deal of era, and trump's, so-called diet coke aid walt nauta to delete video footage from the mar-a-lago security cameras last summer. according to the indictment, in june of 20 2020, the doj communicated to trump's lawyers that a grand jury was issuing a subpoena for the security footage from mar-a-lago. the next day, the former president asked to seat nauta. not to was strike scheduled to

go to illinois, but in instead flew to palm beach, florida. once he touched down, he met with de oliveira, who met -- that told him, quote, the boss wanted the server containing security footage deleted. after that exchange, he met twice with nauta near bushes on the northern edge of the road sorts property. we should note that the indictment doesn't say whether they were actually able to delete any video. this is not the kind of stuff that you typically read about in federal indictments. it's more the stuff of a netflix espionage thriller like the night agent, or a spy novel involving bungling spies, not smoother james bond types. as for the bond villain himself, trump in denied the latest charges on where else his truth social site -- just this morning, he blasted the charges, writing that he never told anybody to delete the footage and handed over the taped to the feds, or as he called them, thugs willingly. clay case closed. the classified documents case

is hardly trump's biggest legal challenge. on friday, we were all bracing for an indictment in an entirely different and bigger case from the feds. jack smith's investigation into trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. all indications show that the indictment there is still imminent with many legal experts speculating that it could come as soon as this tuesday. and then there's georgia. tomorrow, monday, the 31st of july marks the first day of a three-week period in which it is highly success to that fulton county d a fani willis will bring charges against trump and his allies for their election interference efforts. as trump's legal cases mount, so to the costs. according to new reporting from the washington post, trump's political groups spent more than $40 million on legal fees in the first half of 2023 alone to defend him, his advisors, and others. that total is more than any other expense that the pack has occurred during trump's 2024 presidential campaign. according to federal filings from earlier this month, it is

also more than trump's campaign raised in the second quarter of 2023. people are throwing any money to trump to use in this way. amazing. these growing legal troubles are not costing the money, is costing the perhaps something even more valuable, time. in total, donald trump faces five trials between now and november. remember, that is before jack smith is expected for the indictment, before fani willis is expected at fully -- fulton county indictment. a leading candidate, splitting his time between the campaign trail and courtrooms. here is what his prominent republican rival and former ally chris christie had to say about that split screen just this morning. >> i want voters to listen to this. it is most likely that by the time we are on the debate stage on august 23rd, the front runner will be out on bail in four different jurisdictions. florida, washington, georgia, and new york.

out on bail. >> but the folks in christie's party don't seem to be heeding his warnings. despite his growing legal woes, he is still the front runner for the gop's nomination. i have to ask, can american democracy really survive a presidential election campaign in which one of the major party candidates is in the midst of so many criminal trials? what does it say about our two major parties that regardless of all of this, they are still on course to nominate for president a man that in the words of chris christie, is a one man crime wave. let's discuss all of this with david anderson, a civil rights attorney and former prosecutor. he is also a cnbc contributor. glenn kershner, former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst. and jill wine-banks, a former assistant to watergate special prosecutor. legal analyst of the co-host of #sistersinlaw podcast. thank you all for coming back on the show. jill, i will start with you. how big of a deal is this superseding indictment that we have on thursday?

>> it is a very big deal because the obstruction that is laid out there is so awful, and it's so ridiculous, and it's so well documented, that it really puts a different perspective on all of the rest of the crimes in the original indictment. because they now have the iran document, and can now say that that is what he was showing, this highly classified document, to people who did not have any kind of clearance. it is really going to make the jury -- all of the other accusations in the indictment in a very different way. it shows that he is not even as successful as richard nixon. richard nixon was successful in deleting 18 and a half minutes. he failed as far as we can tell. there is nothing to lead. he tried, and that is a crime. but he did not succeed. >> donald trump, not as good as

covering up as richard nixon. jill, you mentioned the jury. i'm going to go to glenn in a moment. he said he has confidence in any jury selected in the trump documents case. despite my concerns that that group would be drawn from counties -- do you believe that a jury, a south jury containing trump voters would unanimously convict trump if the evidence is clear enough? >> i agree with glenn on this. i have a great faith in the jury system. we've seen in the manafort trial, a trump juror said that i was sworn by the judge to vote only on the basis of evidence in this courtroom. i had no choice. i had to vote to convict him on every single count. but these kinds of instructions are taken very seriously. they will see in this case that the evidence is overwhelming that they cannot look away from it. there is a risk, but i think that in this case, they will be

voting to convict. >> glenn, today, we learned that although de oliveira secured council in d.c., he has failed to find representation in florida. how does that complicate plans for tomorrow's arraignment? is this yet another delay in the case? >> it could be. it depends on if the judge appoints temporarily local council who is qualified to appear for purposes of the de oliveira's arraignment. let's hope that the judge doesn't continue this kick the can down the road, because she really can appoint somebody temporarily to stand in until de oliveira gets what we are all hoping, conflict free council. that will make all the difference in the world. if he gets an attorney who is truly zealously representing his interests instead of being on team trump, it seems the de oliveira should cooperate. there is really no reason for him not to save himself.

i hope that he hears the rumble of the ongoing -- apparently already posting that i did not tell anybody to delete a server. what he's done is called the oliveira a liar. i hope that de oliveira gets zealous representation, it begins to explore cooperation with the prosecutors. >> glenn, how dare you suggest donald j trump with throw an employee under the bus? how dare you suggest that. that is shocking to hear you suggest such a thing. david, colin mentions conflicts of interest. i mention -- trump and his associates legal fees have cost him 42 -- if they've already secured them a lawyer in d.c., as they already did with walt nauta, the diet coke aid. how much of this is a blatant conflict of interest in your view? >> i think quite a bit of it is, mehdi. here's the reason why, if you're representing either of

them, you have to give them advice that is best for them. the longer this goes on, the best advice for them is to flip on trump. there is no way around. typically you get a new indictment if you're representing somebody. their question to you is, hey, am i looking at more time? they answer here is not really, you are already facing so many charges. it is far more likely that -- you're adding another defendant, another mouth that you have to hope stays closed. if it flips, -- and again, for the two people involved, given how much the money is going to be for them, if they cut off the pipeline of legal fees, they have invested interest in taking representation against trump. a lawyer's probably going to tell them that if they are being paid for by trump. >> we assume the 80 employee who is told to delete the stuff and got his own lawyers, the one that has flipped and helped with the indictment so far. jill, you worked on the watergate case. a few moments ago, i mentioned the infamous rosemary woods stretch showing the lengths that some people are willing to

go to defend a corrupt bosses actions. and yet, today, the defense is way beyond and -- let's listen to foxes greg got filed, and listen to what he had to say about the superseding indictment. >> surveillance cameras? what's wrong with that? what's wrong with that? are those yours? why can't you clear them? i don't understand that. >> jill, at least nixon's defenders didn't say he was fine to delete the tape. they had the decency to claim it was accidental. >> yes. you cannot delete anything that has been subpoenaed. they were on notice of the subpoena two days before it got there. the attempt happened in -- the consequences of the request for the documents. once they are subpoenaed, it is obstruction of justice to tamper with them, or to attempt to tamper with them. let's keep in mind that the attempt is just as much of a crime as the success. there is no question from what we are reading that that is

what the evidence is going to show, that there was an attempt. it is a question of nauta being the one that i would really want to flip. he had the direct conversation with trump. he can say that trump said to me, and when i went down to talk to de oliveira, i said to him that the cost -- the boss, and he knew exactly who i meant, donald trump. he is the one who is really important. de oliveira really puts their screws to nauta. together, there are a really powerful team. >> i would love a future historians have to write that the first president to go to prison went to prison because the aid who got him diet coke flipped on him. glenn, we have seen a big few names in trump's legal circle facing forms of accountability for efforts after january 6th. we saw jen ellis getting in trouble in colorado for her lies that she had to admit to. cindy powell has backed away from some of her claims. rudy giuliani lost his law license this week, admitted

that he lied about the actions of two georgia election workers, ruby freeman and shaye moss. what do you think is the importance of going after trump 's lawyers to get some accountability that way? >> yes. the lawyers are going to be some very important witnesses against donald trump. i hasten to add usually trump's lawyers don't testify against their own clients. except when the client in lists the lawyer to be part and parcel of a fraud. i think that it is interesting to me, mehdi, ordinarily when we're investigating these large scale and conspiracy cases, what we see and what i used to do as a prosecutor is tried to flip people over time. turn them into cooperating witnesses. have them entered guilty pleas, and cooperate. usually you see that pattern emerge publicly. i find it a curiosity that we have found -- we have seen no people of consequence charged and developed as cooperating witnesses. at least not publicly.

it may very well be that mark meadows has entered into a contractual agreement with the government to become a co-operator. maybe he has not entered his guilty plea yet, maybe he has. i still find it very curious that we do not have any marquee names that have flipped. that is unusual it. leads me to conclude the perhaps, jack smith is keeping his powder dry and we are going to see a sizeable january 6th indictment very soon. i still find it a curiosity. >> it would be phenomenal if mark meadows has done that. former white house chief of staff, certainly no diet coke aid, he is a big deal. david, last word to you. when it comes to election interference, when it comes to the 16 case, we talked about this in the abstract. democracy, overturning elections. we cannot forget that the reason we are here is because donald trump and one of the charges we believe might come up against him, he talks about in the target letter. the deprivation of rights. donald trump and his campaign did not want votes from mostly

black citizens and mostly black areas of key battleground states to count. i worry that we're losing sight of that. >> i agree 100%. as we have these conversations about prosecuting a former president, it is meaningful to think that one of the potential charges that he might be facing stands from the kkk act of 1871. that is conspiring to deprive people of a free exercise of a constitutional right, here that wright being the right to vote. we are talking about that in a future prosecution perhaps in washington, and we're talking about it when we go down to georgia. it ties back into one of the first things that you started asking about. since we're on the topic of civil rights. if we learned anything from the civil rights era, and let's take the representative as an example. he was assassinated in his driveway. they had to try his killer three different times before they got a final conviction. it goes to show that you can win any case if you can pick the right jury. here, we are talking about a jury chosen by a judge, even appointed in a state that he won twice, and counties are

heavily favored. the flipside is,'s lawyers are going to say that the minute you can't pay my bill, i am out. so far, that's been $40 million. it is only going to go up as litigation continues. >> david anderson, glenn kirschner, jill wine-banks, thank you all for your analysis as always. is it just a coincidence that arguably the most corrupt president in u.s. history were once pen pals? more on the trump and nixon letters in a moment. s in i'm a bear.

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>> in the midst of a seemingly endless legal trouble, donald trump took a moment yesterday to remember an old friend, richard nixon. trump used his social media platform to share a letter that his one-time pen pal wrote to him in 1987 saying, quote, whenever you decide to run for office, you will be a winner. i mean, we are beyond irony here. that's donald trump gushing to

the man behind watergate that eventually resigned as president to avoid being impeached, and who had to get a pardon to avoid being indictment, he thought that donald trump would be a great president. have we ever had a former president so proudly and openly where his own alleged criminality as a badge of honor? let's ask nbc news presidential historian, thanks for coming back on the show. first of, your reaction to the nixon -- your reaction to this nixon letter? we know that trump doesn't have shame, but this seems to take it to a whole of level. >> you lived long enough, you get to see everything. donald trump thinks this is something to be proud of. i'm waiting for him next to post a fan letter to himself from president andrew johnson or maybe jefferson davis. >> yes, yes, who next but -- michael, 45 people have said in the oval office. given what we know so far, is donald trump the most egregiously criminal?

>> beyond doubt. even if we learn nothing more than what we know tonight. compared to nixon. nixon obstructed justice, abused power. if he admitted pardoned by gerald ford, there is a very good chance that nixon would've been the first president, ex president to be sent to prison. in trump's case, he did those things and so much more. almost brought down our democracy on the 6th of january. he kept classified documents about the most sensitive defense secrets in our nation's arsenal, if you are i had done that, mehdi, we would not be on tv tonight. we would be in jail. but these are things that he has done and more that go way beyond, and also threaten the rule of law in our country and our future as a country democracy. >> see you are a historian of presidents, of this country. the founding fathers that came out with the constitution, their vision of america.

did they anticipate a trump? did they do enough to think of a system that could contain a trump at the top of it? >> they did not do enough. some of them knew it at the time. alexander hamilton, for instance, among others, he felt that there were not enough checks against the possibility that somebody of evil and bad character would be elected president. but and hamilton and others who are worried about this turned out to be absolutely right. what checks are there against a reckless, lawless president like donald trump? how about impeachment? how did that work? twice impeached, didn't stop him in the least. there is a -- in my mind, extinct memo from nixon's justice department saying that a sitting president cannot be indicted it was used to keep him from being indicted. i believe that sitting presidents should be invited. he was able to stand up to congress. >> and as we said correctly, didn't people around biden

suggest that we were going to get rid of that memo? they haven't, not as far as i'm aware. >> they have not yet. the point is that we have one out of checks and guardrails and remedies against a president that misbehaves. at the last seven years, if they are not a living demonstration of, that i don't know what else we need. but >> michael, as we discussed at the top of the show, trump will face five trials between now and next november. that doesn't include the indictments that we are waiting on in relation to the 2020 election. from jack smith, and from fani willis. in georgia, the guy is going to be interrupting presidential debate and campaign rallies to go and sit in court in multiple different parts of the country. i want to ask you, is there time in our history where a presidential campaign was so turned upside down? can you think -- prior to 2024, what was the most chaotic presidential campaign we've had in this country? >> well, chaotic you can talk

about, for instance in 1924, before the democrats became regressive, the democratic invention of 19 2024 was dominated by delegates from the ku klux klan. we have lots of chaotic presidential campaigns. on awe -- i want a big risk to pay. but you and i years ago, i think we would've said, i think we can speak for both of us. if a presidential candidate were under indictment and on trial in five different venues, things as major is violating the espionage act, insurrection against the united states, almost like a confederacy. things like that. we would've thought that maybe it would be a little bit disqualifying. the scary thing is that the number of people that are willing to stick with trump through thick and thin. >> and of course, trump himself, who has suggested that even if he were to be convicted prior to the memo, which is unlikely given the timeline. even, then he would carry on running. of course, in america, you can run for president from a prison

cell. again, that is something that surely needs changing. michael, we will have to leave it there. we are out of time. thank you, always a pleasure. >> thank, you need to. thank you, mehdi. >> coming up, but all the ex presidents men. the corruption and criminality runs far deeper than just trump himself. don't forget, you can listen to the mehdi hasan show anytime free wherever you get your podcasts. but cks. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. ask about ubrelvy. what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ (vo) verizon small business days are coming. only pay for what you need. from august 7th to the 13th.

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evolved form, we carry that spirit with us. because you can take alfa romeo out of italy. but you best believe, you can't take the italy out of an alfa romeo. >> it is time for what i call the 62nd rant. given donald trump's latest legal troubles, it's worth reminding ourselves how many indictments that he's facing, and how many people around him have already been convicted of crimes. i know that it's hard to keep up, but let me have a go. in just 60 seconds, trump's indictment and all of the trump people who have already been indicted and then convicted. start the clock. in march, donald trump was indicted by the manhattan

district attorney for his alleged hush money payment, and then in june he was indicted by the doj special counsel jack smith, classified documents. and this week, smith headed to new counts. how about all of the people around him, the convicted criminals that donald trump is provided, hired, work with? in the 2017 presidential campaign, convicted for tax fraud, bank fraud, conspiracy to defraud the witness tampering. a deputy campaigns for 2016. reed, gates convicted of conspiracy and investigated. the 2016 campaign ceo steve bannon convicted for criminal intent of congress. michael cohen -- 's national security adviser, general michael finnegan confine couldn't of -- his one-time foreign policy adviser. george papadopoulos confront -- his one-time foreign policy -- convicted certain sex crimes against minors. his -- convicted of constructing a -- 's company cfo adam weisman convicted of grand larceny, tied, ford and the trump organization of self convicted on multiple charges of criminal tracks fraud.

coming up, just to samuel alito's claims that congress wrongly has no authority to police the supreme court. we will set the record straight. first, jessica layton is here with the headlines. hello, jess. >> thank you, mehdi. stories we're watching this hour, a suicide bombing at a political ranney in pakistan has led to 55 dead with more than 130 injured. that is according to a spokesperson for the political party that organized the event. no group has said they are responsible, but the islamic state group does operate across the border in afghanistan. russian officials say that they shot down three official ukrainian jones targeting moscow. just hours before a military parade there that would be attended by vladimir putin. ukraine hasn't taken responsibility for the attack. we know that one person was injured. this is the third drone strike in russia this week. back here in the u.s., powerful storms hit the d.c. area on saturday, knocking out power for more than 200,000 people.

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rewash? not in my house. upgrade to new cascade platinum plus. dare to dish differently. >> the supreme court's approval rating has sent to a historic low. just 30% of registered voters approve of the court, a 59% disapprove according to a poll from last month. these abysmal ratings are in

part because of the actions of justice is because of samuel alito. this is a man whose critics say he is indebted to, gop big donors. alito took a luxury fishing trip in 2008. the gop billionaire, paula singer, who's a hedge fund had cases before the court at least ten times in the years following that vacation. alito did not report the trip in his financial disclosures. why? essentially supreme court justices are virtually unregulated, left to police themselves. and they're doing a bad job of it. what does alito say about this? in an interview with the wall street journal, he just doubled down, saying quote, i know it's a controversial view, i'm willing to say. no provision of the constitution gives congress the authority to regulate the supreme court. period. by the, way the person who interviewed alito for that piece was david b. rifkin, a prominent conservative attorney who, i kid you not, is about to appear before him in a case at the supreme court. it is the biggest possible middle finger that he could

send to congress, and to any american that believes supreme court justices should not vote with impunity above the law. joining us now to discuss, this is mark joseph stern, a senior writer on the court for slate. thank you for joining me. what do you think justice alito is trying to do here with this wall street journal interview? as he got a strategy here? is he just trying to provoke debate for the democrats to subpoena or impeach him? was it a show of strength, you can't touch me? >> i think justice alito genuinely enjoys trolling liberals. clearly a consumer of twitter type news and information. he clearly sees the reaction on the left whenever he makes a statement like this. he seems to love it. what he said in the interview goes so far beyond the pale of any known standard of ethics. it's hard to know where to start. you have a justice offering an advisory opinion on legislation that is pending before the

senate. giving an interview for a lawyer that, as you noted, will shortly appear before him in a case that is designed to rollback the federal income tax. it could not look worse than this. alito seems to revel in it, and i think especially after that pro public at peace, he wants to flout as many ethics rules as possible to show us that for now at least, he could not be touched. >> and so in terms of not being able to be touched, the court can be touch, alito said, and i quote, no provision in the constitution gives congress the right to regulate the supreme court period. and yet legal experts have come out in their droves to say otherwise. university texas law schools steve vladeck says that they are not just controversial, it is, quote belied by 24 years of practice. it would turn the separation of power totally on its head. highlights article three, section of the constitution, saying quote, the supreme court should have a palette -- in fact, with such regulations

as the congress should make. that does seem to counter alito's argument, doesn't not? >> the constitution literally uses the word regulation to say what congress can do to the supreme court. and yet, alito claims that no provision gives congress the authority to regulate his court. it cannot be squared. the guy is just lying. i think that what steve is trying to say there, and maybe such an important point, most of the country's history, congress regulated the supreme court. it added or subtracted seats. taking away the power -- it moved certain hearings for totally partisan purposes. i'm not saying that is all good, but it does show that embedded in the constitution is this idea of checks and balances among all three branches of the branches. the supreme court he seems to think sits a top the government, and also the balances to two other branches.

that's not how it works. if congress wanted to turn samalea chambers into a transgender health clinic, we would have full constitutional authority to do so. i think that deep down, he knows that, and he's scared of it. that is why he wants to go out and tell the american people the opposite. >> that is a vision for the supreme court's future there, martin. alito did this hours long interview, as we have mentioned with david b. rifkin. he appears before the court, he will be appearing on the federal income tax case. he is also an attorney for conservative activists leonard leo, he reportedly facilitated alito's grand alaskan adventure. i am trying to think of how wildly agree just this is. if ketanji brown jackson sat down for a new york times interview with the democrat election lawyer to talk about the l.a. galatea of republican voter laws, what would conservatives say? >> and let's just add an extra layer to this. david rifkin also wrote a

letter on behalf of leonard leo to the senate judiciary committee claiming that the committee doesn't have any authority to investigate alito's relationships and financial support of judges and justices. because of the first amendment claiming that an investigation like that would violate leonard leo's first amendment rights. an interesting assertion to consider given the needs that leonard leo recently had a protester arrested for calling him and effing fastest in public. akok apparently, to literally, out the first amendment allows him to have somebody arrested for saying nasty things about him, but does not allow the congress of the united states to open an investigation into his 1.6 billion dollar dark money machine. >> also pro, tiffany no lawyer, but if somebody calls you a fascist, best not to call for them to be arrested. just a pro tips. mark joseph stern, as ever, thank you for your analysis and report. >> thanks so much, mehdi. >> coming up, rhonda sanchez

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his campaign is burning through cash and he just fired a campaign staffer used knots imagery to astroturf online enthusiasm. so it's strange that ron desantis decided to mark his latest campaign reboot, reset, relaunch can't count how many there have been already by making the case that there is some upside, some pros some lovely little silver linings to slavery. really? don't take my word for it, this is not a liberal smear campaign. just listen to ronda scientists in self. >> you should talk to them about it. i didn't do it, i wasn't involved in it, but i think what they are doing is that i think they are probably going

to show some of the folks that eventually parlayed being a blacksmith into doing things later in life. >> parlayed. desantis was defending the sunshine's new education standards or rather one standard in particular that dictates middle school students should learn quote how slave develop skills within some instances could be applied for their personal benefit. here's the craziest part the. not content with defending that curriculum, defending the supposed personal benefits of slavery conferred on the enslaved, team desantis has since gone to war both in public statement and especially by an online tweet tirades, not just for the plethora of historians and teachers who have spoken out against it, but also a prominent black republicans expressing their concern. claiming they are all just siding with the lying democrats. one former gop congressman a, heart ring byron donalds quoted that, the attempt to feature

the personal benefits of slavery's wrong needs to be adjusted. desantis rapid response coordinator christine abu show said kamala harris write this tweet? and republican congressman wesley junta direct descendant of a slave push some offered some pushback to the, desantis deputy press secretary just dumped on him. when senate tim scott the lone black republican in the senate noted very accurately that what slavery was very about separating families, mutilated humans and raping lives was just devastating, rhonda scientist said scott and other republicans in other washington all, except false narratives and lies that are perpetrated by the left. for desantis, any republican, any black republican questioning their controversial teachings in florida on slavery is a duke of the left, especially of black vice president kamala harris who has been leading the democratic efforts to push back against desantis on this. >> at the end of the day, he got to choose. are you going to side with

kamala harris and liberal media outlets, are you gonna side with the state of florida? i think it's very clear that these guys did a good job on the standards. it wasn't anything that was politically motivated. these are serious scholars. >> separate to his deliver mispronunciation of the vice presidents last name, serious scholars? two of the leaders of the working group to compiled a new florida standards aren't actually professional historians but are republicans. and they put out a statement defending their work. but plot twist. nbc news reports the vast majority that working group, 11 of the 13 members, did not actually want to include language about the benefits of slavery. sorry ron. under presidential candidate or election when a governor, but i'm pretty sure that if you are republican accused of defending slavery, you are going to lose and you don't want to pick a fight with black members of your own party. to quote black republican

congressman john james who also criticize the curriculum, my brother in christ, if you find yourself in a deep hole, put the shovel down. but desantis can't stop, won't stop, his campaign surrogates continued to tweet incessantly about how right the curriculum is and how wrong all their black republican critics are. so to use language that team desantis might better understand, stop tweeting, touch grass. coming up at the top of the hour with ayman mohyeldin, congressman dan goldman on his push for homeland security to weed out extremism for the far-right. and congressman, garcia on his hearing with ufos. but amy joins me himself with a candidate this, struggling hard to prove himself in the world that he's real boy. yes him again, ron desantis. y mutyour car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪

bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ (fan #1) there ya go! that's what i'm talkin' about! (josh allen) is this your plan to watch the game today? (hero fan) uh, yea. i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. switch now and they'll give you nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv, on them. (hero fan) this plan is amazing! (josh allen) another amazing plan, backing away from here very slowly. (fan #1) that was josh allen. (fan #2) mmhm. (vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy s23. it's your verizon thank you for watching.

we will be right back next sunday day pm eastern. you cannot find the show in the msnbc hub on peacock, new episode each week on thursday. but now it's time to hand it over to my good friend ayman mohyeldin. ayman, i am sorry but before we go we have to talk about ron desantis or his choke of a presidential campaign. he's already become a meme that we're tucker carlson ash laugh of his. and he's so health caused versus who get a quest snack bar while cause playing as a blue collar working.

ayman, here is chatting with a child at a campaign fairgrounds talk in hole high or earlier this. week >> what is? that can i see? yeah, probably -- >> i love that he shakes's hand as well. >> he doesn't seem to know what an icy's or seen one before. anything is the appropriate on camera response to a child eating an icy is to shame them for its sugar content. he can reboot his campaign as many times as he wants, but his campaign not change the fact that he himself is a charm free, charisma free, humor free zone. rigid, and likable, anti social of presidential candidates. no one who's behind by 30 points. >> watching ron desantis doing retail pollack this egg liked watching a train wreck. he can't take your eyes off of it, but it's painful, it's got ranging, it's got worthy, and it's even something republicans

are criticizing him for. i don't know if you saw this, but watching defend him self when he was asked about doing retail politics on meghan kelly. watch. >>, the party chairman goes to me like, you guys were saying, he doesn't do retail, he doesn't do all this, and what we saw was the complete opposite. he came in, did a great speech, took pictures, shook hands with every single person -- >> okay, so juxtapose that desantis's answer with the clip of what your interaction showed in this one. watch. >> well, i'm here -- yeah it's good, it's good. all right we'll say hi everyone. >> [laughter] what we do? let's >> let's go see had everyone. >> what i do next when we do? next >> have you ever seen a more robotic, more inauthentic

performance that lacks any sincerity or humanity from a candidate? remember, this was the guy that conservatives said was going to be the future of the party, and yet he can't even fake being relate-able! >> ayman, he wasn't just the future of the, parties supposed to be trump without the baggage. it turns is trump about the, humor trump that the charisma, trump without any charm and personality, and then they wonder why trump keeps winning. >> absolutely. listen, i have the feeling that as long as he stays in the race, we can have a lot more clips like that to enjoy my friend. great show as always. it's good to see you. >> i see! >> lay off the sugar kid. thank you very much it's good to see. welcome ayman to ayman tonight. the clock is ticking, donald trump could be indicted, any minute now for his efforts to overturn the election. as we learn more about the contents of that superseding indictment. plus, congressman dan