this is the katie phang show, live from washington, d.c.. we've got lots of news to cover, and lots of questions to answer. let's get started. waiting and watching. the twice impeached former president could be thrice indicted and the coming days for his all out efforts to cling to power after losing the 2020 presidential election. we're going in-depth on trump's dizzying carousel of cases, including a one-on-one with 16 select committee manager -- maryland congressman, jamie raskin. well the real electors please

stand up? pushing donald trump's big lie could lead to prison time for more than a dozen people facing felony barbenheimer charges and fake elector admission. secretary of state, jocelyn benson, is here minutes just minutes before -- how michigan are challenging those peddling dangerous laws. a showdown at the southern border. the department of justice threatens legal action over texas governor greg abbott school crackdown on migrant crossings, including alleged orders to push migrant children into the rio grande river. the texas state senator are trying to -- ted cruz joins us later. all of that and more are coming up. a good sunday morning to you all. i am katie phang. we start this morning with an all eyes on special counsel, jack smith, intense investigation into the twice

impeached, for now, twice indicted, one term ex president. as early as this week, former president donald trump could be indicted for a third time. the big lie is at the center of this looming indictment. nbc news reports that smith wants to know what the president state of mind was like and the time between losing the election vote and the violent day at the capitol two months later. fulton county georgia district attorney is set to be in the final stages of a similar case. the grand jury that could hit the ex president with his fourth indictment so far just this year. could reach a decision very soon. in fact, we can see trump in a courtroom more than we see him on the campaign trail next year. his crowded criminal calendar will collide with a pivotal presidential primary. the federal trial and trump's classified documents case is set to start on may 20th 2024. about two months before trump can officially accept the nomination for president of the united states at the republican

national convention in july. joining us now to get started, justice reporter, ryan reilly. he's also the author of the forthcoming book, sedition hunters. ryan, good morning. it was a week ago today that trump received that target letter from the doj. i mean, what are the chances, ryan, that we can see an indictment being returned this weekend unsealed? >> yeah, really, the countdown started on thursday because that was the last day that donald trump was given an opportunity to go before the grand jury and sort of say his piece. he did end up doing that, i think most defense attorneys would say that was a smart move because it's not often a great idea to go before these grand juries. you know, that was really when this countdown began because at that point i think they had seen so many people, they're talking to people, and we know william russell, for example, who is top aide was with trump asking these questions about his state of mind at that point.

especially because we'll russell is the third time he's come before this grand jury. there's obviously something very interesting. given the amount of people that have come in at this point, you know, even though we are seeing these future meetings set up with potential witnesses, going for the next few weeks, even into mid august, it's still a jump ball of whether they're going to pursue this and have other investigations going on a separate truck, or whether they are going to wait out these other interviews. i think that more signs are pointing towards they're going to really be in the wrap up stage of this, and they're going to return to the former president shortly. >> ryan riley, thanks so much for getting us started. outside of trump's washington d.c. case, world's opinion an eye on his legal woes in the state of georgia. joining me now, barbara mcquade, msnbc legal analyst, former united states attorney for the state of michigan. law professor at the university of michigan school of law. she is also a co-host of the

hashtag sisters in law podcast. barb, good morning. it's good to see you. we know through reporting that governor brian kemp has been contacted by special counsel jack smith in his 16 case investigation. fulton county d.a. has also spoken to cap trump's efforts to overturn the 20 election results. my question for you is the following. we get realtime court reporting sometimes in terms of witnesses media jack smith's team testifying in front of a grand jury. some of it is coming out after the fact. if you are sitting there watching tv right now, and your hearing that there is an imminent indictment, and you're also hearing at the same time, barb, that there is news that people are still being interviewed by jack smith, is there some confusion about whether that's going to delay the release, or the timing of an indictment? >> it's difficult to know, katie. as you know, we interviewed even after an indictment. i think the best practices to react off all those interviews before you file the indictment.

you want to have all the facts available to you. i know there's been reporting that there is even an interview with witness scheduled for august, which could indicate what the indictment is imminent, in human terms. this might sound like, and lawyer terms, several weeks away. there is nothing to preclude jack smith from asking questions even after the is filed. the grand jury cannot be used to bolster the evidence once in indictment is filed. you can only continue to investigated for looking into new charges, or new defendants. >> barb, let's talk some nuts and bolts for our viewers. let's say that jack smith gets more evidence that it ruminates not only donald trump, but perhaps the coconspirator of possible codefendant. does that mean a superseding indictment is filed? meaning a brand-new indictment's fault of the new case number, or is there a brand-new case number that's

generated in order to prosecute additional people of persons? >> yeah, it depends. there were rules. if they are part of a conspiracy with donald trump, you would expect that to come in the same indictment, and bs superseding indictments. we've added another chapter to it. or, it will be that the other person's conduct is completely separate. say for example someone lied in the jury, and how they found out about that. that could be charged as a separate case, unrelated to the same case. although there are facts that have overlapped, it is not part of the same crime or conspiracy. that could be charged in one of. sometimes you'll see that. there is a large indictment that includes the main target, as well as codefendants. then there are individual cases that spin off from that based on obstruction of justice. that could be the case as well. it could be the source of some of the reporting that were seeing about some of these individual witnesses been interviewed a second time. doesn't mean that the person being interviewed is the target, in fact, it's probably not the

person that's the target. it could be that they're being asked questions because they're trying to determine why someone else lied to them. >> barb, let's shift our attention further south to the state of georgia. we mentioned at the beginning of your segment, fulton county is presenting next month. that sounds like a far away, but that's the last few days, to a jury in atlanta. nearly 20 people have already been warned by fani willis's office that they could face charges. charges like racketeering is a specialty for fani willis. how about reading a crystal ball for us right now, barb, and given a kind of run at what possible charges could be coming out of fulton county that we could be seen. >> yeah. you know, fani willis can say that she has to clear the decks for that first week of august, which suggests to me that that's her timing for an indictment. in georgia, i would imagine the focus would be the activity that incurred there. we know about that phone call with backusburg or, which suggests, to me, and effort to interfere with the election.

and election fraud charge. there are also fake electors in georgia. there is some tampering with election equipment. there i think one of the reasons why people were talking about using rico's not only does fani willis have a history of using this in a lot of different kinds of contacts, but it would be a useful way to bring in all of those kinds of schemes under one big umbrella. this is what rico is, a pattern of concerning activity. what's racketeering? it's specifically crimes that are committed by organized crimes enterprises. it includes extortion, fraud, perjury. all of those things will come under that one umbrella, which is why i think people looking at it, and it seems like a decent bet. >> barb, quickly, before have to let you go, is there a possibility that trump could face federal charges relating to his criminal conduct in the state of georgia? meaning there could be a federal case predicated on the same set of facts that fani willis is using to be able to bring state crimes charges

against donald trump? >> yes. you know there is this concept known as dual sovereignty. that is, if you violate the laws of the state, there is nothing to preclude the feds from also charging you if you also have violated federal law. i can see that happening quite easily here. fani willis charges -- in jack smith charging throughout the country, including but not limited to georgia. >> barbara mcquade, you've got all of the knowledge in your blessing us with that this morning. thank you for joining us and getting us started. i appreciate you. >> thank, you katie. >> later on in the katie phang show, defending our democracy. i'll go one-on-one with former lead impeachment manager, congressman, jamie raskin, to get his thoughts on the specter of a looming third trump indictment, and now the former president may actually use his campaign as a legal shield for prosecution. first, paying the price. felony forgery charges and then some for more than a dozen

republicans and michigan at the center of the 2020 fake elector plot. could it be a blueprint for other states to secure their elections to? we'll talk to the michigan secretary of state next. we've got so much more of the katie phang show, so keep it right here on msnbc. t here on msnb c.

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foundation of our system of government. one of the most important principles in our democracy. >> that was michigan attorney general, dana nessel, moments after announcing the battleground state is leading the charge in charge in fake electors and protecting election integrity. nestle says the nefarious plot to overturn president biden's win unfolded on december 14th, 2020. the group allegedly met in the basement of gop headquarters, citing multiple certificates claiming that they were the states, quote, duly elected qualified electors. the plot never materialized. now, each of these defendants faces eight felony counts,

including forgery. you might recall, michigan wasn't the only state that had a slate of fake electors attempting to do trump's bidding. it is the first to press charges. now that arizona, georgia, nevada, new mexico, pennsylvania, and wisconsin have michigan as a blueprint, who will be next in line to stand up for democracy? joining me now live is michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson. secretary, it's always so nice to have you on the show. look, some of the people involved in the scheme or high-level members of your states gop. including the former co-chair of the michigan republican party, as well as a township clerk. how significant is it that this step is being made by attorney general nestle towards accountability for these individuals? >> well thanks for having me, katie. it's such an important step forward in the effort to suggest us for those who took action to try to overturn the results of legitimate

presidential election simply because they didn't like the results. remember, at the time of individuals met in the basement of a state republican party headquarters to try to lie to the government about who was rightfully diverse and of michigan college votes, they had been a number of legal cases and challenges fully exhausted to demonstrate that there was no widespread fraud in our election results. the results were an accurate result of the world people. there is an abundance of elements that these individuals knowingly tried to lie to the government about who won michigan's electoral college votes. those attempts cannot stand without consequences, or else others will try to do it in the future. >> for some of us they can seem like this process of holding people accountable for trying to subvert our democracy in the will of the people is a slow-moving train. i think you put it best on twitter when you wrote, quote, never underestimate the women from michigan. i'm talking a female powerhouse team that includes you,

attorney general dana nessel, gretchen whitmer, a state senator valérie pink morrow. are you hoping, excuse, me secretary, that others will follow the lead that michigan has set? >> yes. the lead not just in seeking accountability for pass attempts to overturn an election, but the lead and expanding our access to democracy in the state. at the same time that we saw these indictments come down this week, we saw several laws passed. one including by senator mcmorrow and others, to expand access to the votes, to implement a ballot tracking system to guarantee nine days of early voting in our state. michigan is leading the way not just seeking justice, but expanding the right to vote in our state. we do see ourselves as, i think, a microcosm of the country, but also an example for whatever state should be doing a moments like this. >> you had the chance to sit down and speak to special counsel jack smith's team and march of this year. you've said among the areas

that they investigated seem to focus on was the impact of the misinformation on election workers lives, and the threats that emerged from those various sources. you yourself have experienced threats of violence firsthand. how important is it for there to be action taking to ensure that the truth is reinforced time and time again as to what happened in 2020, not only in criminal cases, but in civil cases so as to protect the integrity of the process, but also to protect the safety of election workers and election officials. >> yes, it's critical. what we saw unfold in 2020, into a certain extent, attempted in different ways in 2022, was an unprecedented effort to not just overturn election results that folks disagreed with, but really undermine the process itself. people showed up in detroit and other places to try to interfere or block the counting of votes in 2020. one of those individuals runs the republican party in our state. at the same time we saw threats

and violence and harassment proliferate, not only against me and other secretaries of state, but against election officials in our state and elsewhere. all of that collided in washington d.c. on january six, 2021. we have to seek justice and make a clear statement together as a state, as a country, as leaders. this is not okay. this is not how democracy operates. we stand by the results of accurate elections, when we have evidence of wrongdoing, we bring a ford, but when that evidence is found to be lacking, we move forward together as a state, and as a nation, with a leader who is truly elected. >> attorney general dana nessel, in your state, initially investigated the fake electors scheme, but then referred to the doj on january of 2022. after a period of time, however, there was some perceived inaction by the feds. dana nessel actually reopened her investigation which resulted in the arrest that were just announced, the feds are back investigating. do you, secretary, think that there is actually going to be

federal charges brought as well against the same 16 republicans? >> well, i don't know. we know the investigation is ongoing, we know as barbara mcquade mentioned earlier, dual sovereignty exists, so if there are federal laws, where there is a federal conspiracy and there is evidence to suggest the laws that are violated at the federal level, there should be indictments. we should express them. we should also recognize the importance of this process playing out in a way that is driven by evidence, facts, and the law. that does take time, for good reason. we want to make sure that any presidents that is created, or any punishment or consequence that are levied, or the results of a very meticulous and thoughtful process that is not connected to politics, but surely connected to all of our responsibilities under the law. it may take some time, but i do expect whether to michigan or other states, that the investigations ongoing in our state or elsewhere, at the federal level, this is just the beginning of the effort to see

consequences for this attempt. we should expect, i believe, more to come in the future. >> to emphasize a point that you made previously on our show and on others, election integrity isn't partisan. it certainly is valuable each and every vote. that is made regardless of party affiliation. michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson, i appreciate you taking the time today. thank you. >> my pleasure, thanks for having me. >> still to come on the katie phang show, setting the stage former lead house impeachment manager, maryland congress person, jalen -- and the house committees 18 month investigation set the stage for a third indictment of donald trump. that's coming up right after this break. you are watching msnbc, so keep it right here. it right here. subway refreshed everything and now they're slicing their deli meats fresh. that's why this qb profers the new five meat beast. and this qb profers it. and if we profer it. we know you'll profer it too. are you trying to outspokesperson me? maybe.

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trump, could be indicted for the third time for his alleged efforts to ruthlessly cling to power after losing the 2020 presidential election. as we await trump's legal faith, there really is no one better to talk to you than my next guest. as a former member of the january six select committee, he spent nearly two years painstakingly investigating the events that led up to the violent attack on our capitol on january 6th 2021. joining me now is maryland congressman, -- former lead impeachment manager, and the author of unthinkable. trump, truth, and the trial for american democracy. congressman, it's an honor to have you join the show this morning. especially on this important topic. i wanna question the following. it's the final report the january six committee made specific criminal referrals to the doj regarding trump and his supporters. these referrals included conspiracy to defraud the united states and obstruction of an official proceeding which are confirmed to be in the

target letter that was served on donald trump. is this what you envisioned, congressman, as the final step of accountability for what you call donald trump's true legacy, of american carnage? >> i think the central component, katie, of what we advocated is present there. conspiracy to interfere with and obstruct a proceeding, that was obviously the entire plot that day. conspiracy to defraud the united states, essentially, to seek us out of an honest election by replacing the actual electoral college process, which has created in federal state law, with these counter electors. even the people for dissipating were calling the fake electors. what's missing, at least reportedly, because we haven't seen any actual indictments, what appears to be methane is the count on 18 out of that in the effort to insurrection.

that statute is much less tested, much less charged. it might be that the prosecutors are considering it is too difficult to go that far. we found overwhelming evidence that donald trump had aided in assisted the insurrection, he had incited the insurrection of the house of representatives found in the impeachment article. he certainly gave aid and comfort to the insurrectionist both before and during the insurrection with the tweeted out that mike pence did not have the courage to do what needed to be done. even afterwards, when you praise them for their work, told them to remember this day forever. never forget it. he has continued to aid in a bed, and give aid and comfort of the insurrectionists. he's going so far as to say he might issue -- for all of them today. in any event, if the reports are to be believed, that's not

part of what jack smith's team is looking at. they seem to be focused on what seems overwhelmingly in indisputably clear, which is the plan to interfere with the counting of electoral college votes that obstruct the peaceful power process and the electoral process with a counterfeit one. >> congressman, i'm glad that you brought up that incitement of insurrection because many people may not remember, but trump was impeached for incitement of insurrection. you obviously know that very well, it was one of the charges you just mentioned, that the 16 committee referred to the doj. in your opinion, and i know we don't know what the final charges are, but do you think that it would be a mistake for special counsel jack smith to not pursue that specific charge against the man who was responsible for january six? the man who you just noted issued a call to arms for his foot soldiers, many of whom have been prosecuted by the doj. >> as you observed, he's already been impeached by the house of representatives for

inciting an insurrection against the union, and in fact, the senate voted to cooperate on those charges. we did not reach the truth or special that 67 -- in order to convict him. there are rogue baths majorities in the house in the senate to find in this legislative fact that he did it. the making of this prove me onto reasonable doubt is something that is going to be within the process of the prosecutors to determine. if it ends up not being on the list of charges, perhaps they feel that this point is not as open me. i don't know, me that speculating as to what is in there. in any event, conspiring to interfere with the counting of el matorral college votes to block the peaceful transfer of power, to defraud the american people out of an honest presidential election, the

results are extremely ingrained even if the prosecutors decide not to go one step further. in any event, it does underscore the subtlety, the complexity, and the care with which the prosecutors appear. >> there is a recent reporting that suggests that the trump war room at the hotel has been a key focus of special counsel, jack smith,'s investigation. we know through the evidence in the information that your committee presented to the american public that meetings took place that between rudy giuliani, john eastman, another trump cronies, as well as a critical phone call on january 61 day before the insurrection with trump and giuliani, and others. congressman, that war room conflict, that was investigation. it's a good example of how the investigative powers were unlimited by time, compliance, and what special counsel jack smith was able to accomplish with the full force of the doj behind him?

>> of this league a have a lot more resources at their disposal. the total power of subpoena that no one is really quite amassed with. trump and his followers would invite us to believe that all this with some kind of spontaneous me irruption at a rally that just got a little out of control. no. this was a very clear, concerted plop that took place over many weeks to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election. it included getting state legislators to point out the biden slates and replace them with the trump slates. it included direct overtures to state election officials like secretary of state and georgia to get them to just find 11,780 votes. me it involved conceivably overthrowing the department of justice leadership to install someone who would assert

corruption, and finally, it involved a very concerted plan to get vice president pence to step outside of his role and exercise lawless extra constitutional powers, simply to declare trump president, or to kick the whole election into the house of representatives for so-called contingent election. the states would be voting in one state, one vote, rather than each of us members voting in that way. this was a very carefully orchestrated and choreographed plot to overturn the election. there was nothing spontaneous are out of control about it. >> congressman, i had to say goodbye to you, because i'm at a time, but i want to say thank you to you in the members of the 16 committee. this was different -- i was talking to secretary of state, i provided a basis, operating in a vacuum, nor was

the investigation you did for 18 months to help jack smith and his ultimate prosecution of donald trump. congressman, jamie raskin, thank you for joining us this morning, i appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> coming up next, second and can bend. how vice president kamala harris is carving out a special lane for herself ahead of election 2024. you're watching the katie phang show. keep it right here on msnbc. n msnbc.

one of the most important parts of the biden reelection campaign is it has nothing to do with joe biden. if team biden wants to, and all have to give vice -- a major boost. it looks like that's already started, with harris making headlines this week for her blistering response to new black history standards. i got that in quotes because it's not legit enforceable's. >> how is it that anyone could suggest that in the midst of these atrocities, that there was any benefit to being subjected to this level of dehumanization. in the myths of these atrocities that -- benefit. >> joining me now, symone

sanders-townsend, she's the chief spokesperson for kamala harris. she also host the amazing show simone right here on msnbc every weekend at four pm eastern. we're kind of book ending on the weekend. i'm in the morning, you're in the afternoon. simone, let me ask you. you know the system so, while you know the officer, while you know kamala harris so well. why does it seem like we're now starting to see the vice president and more high-profile appearances, or is that a missed perception because she hasn't been getting the right media coverage for the work she's been doing? >> i think it is a misperception. i think the president has been quite active for a lack of a better term. frankly, if you go back to the midterm elections,, katy when after the midterm elections, you got all these voters saying that abortion was very important to, them right? the fall of roe v. wade after the dobbs decision. if from kansas, to michigan, when abortion was on the ballot, people voted to protect it. vice president harris spent her time over in the lead up to that midterm election, and she was traveling across the country meeting with abortion

rights advocates, state legislatures across the country, on that very issue. also the issue of voting rights. i do think she's been very active, but the reality is the vice president of the united states of america, year number two, you're not number one. you name is on the door, but there's another name on the door. you know, the vice president has to always be laser focused on doing the work. sometimes does not get the credit. that's true for every vice president. it's no different for vice president harris. >> i'm glad you brought that up. there's this tension that's being paid to the polls about kamala harris's fifa below the numbers. it is a general well received concept that when the presidents numbers fluctuate, the vice president's numbers fluctuate. in other, words are going along for the ride. you are going to drop by comparison. dang, wales when i did this segment with you, he described the vice presidency is an awkward office. it's not your agenda, you're going to disagree from time to time, but you salute and you carry out the orders the best you can. quayle's numbers were abysmal.

do people need to understand, i mean, kamala harris could totally stand on her own laurels. she's so strong, she has an accomplished career. the reality, like you just said, she has to take one for her team, right? she has to go along for the ride, she has the kind of do what the orders are being given to her by president biden. >> i think, katie, vice president harris, the expectations of vice president harris coming into the world, she is a historic vice president. the first, woman person of color, black women. the expectations they often tell people, they smashed into the reality the vice presidency. the reality that the vice presidency is that you are oftentimes doing work on very consequential issues, but you're not a good vice president if you're running out there and telling the world what you're doing and how you're doing it. it is really there, the vice president is there to be a support system, a sounding board, a governing partner to the president. i do think that vice president harris has been very successful

in doing that. the reality is, we are barreling towards a general election sooner than we know it's in the midst of a republican primary season right now. vice president harris is a critical piece, as she was in the 2020 election to the biden harris ticket. she is going to sit and stand on her own debate stage from the general election, and have to debate the republicans vice presidential pick. i think that then people will see, yet again, why joe biden thought that she was the best choice, the best governing partner to go in there and do that work. >> let's talk about this collision of expectations before i have to let you go. let's be frank, she's the first woman of color to hold that office. do you think the expectations have been unreasonably high for what she was going to be able to accomplish? do you think people are underestimated her because she is a woman of color? >> i think that there is a misunderstanding of really what the vice presidency is. i think that misunderstanding translate itself to some of the

coverage people. see that people are not necessarily pain attention. who was the last president -- >> certainly not mike pence. >> certainly not. not even joe biden when he was the vice president. maybe detaining is the last vice president that we knew what they did every day. i do think that. i also think it's important that the folks that are working for the vice presidents, as someone who has been in that position, i'm like, monday morning quarterbacking now. it's also important to make sure that you're doing your due diligence to elevate the work that she is doing, making sure they are communicating outwardly, not just with the media apparatus, but also partners to ensure the when people are, as they can tell. >> they can answer intelligently, right? the messaging sometimes is so much more critical. >> it's critical. it's like, we've got allies. make sure your allies know what your principle is doing. >> give them the ammunition. thank you so much. simone samson. you can catch simone four pm

right here on msnbc. there is a new episode every monday on peacock. you can go to peacock and stream, that catch simone on peacock as well. simone, you're the best. thank you for being here so early. coming up after the, break the cruelty is the point. the department of justice is calling texas governor, greg abbott, escalation of violence along the southern border a violation of federal law. democratic state senator joins me next on how texas are fighting back. keep it here on msnbc. keep it here on msnbc.

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governor, greg abbott, has blood on his hands over how he's handling the humanitarian crisis at the southern border. now the justice department is threatening to action. last week, governor abbott deployed miles of razor sharp

wire along the river bank. as well as a wild buoy floating between the river between mexico and eagle path. this increase migrants risk of drowning, injury, and death. in a letter the, doj says that they violate federal law, raise humanitarian concerns, and present serious risk to public safety in the environment. the doj is giving the state until two pm tomorrow to come up with a plan to remove the buoys, or be hit with a lawsuit. abbott school crackdown on migrant crossings doesn't end with a razor wire or the buoys. state troopers with the texas department of public safety report brutal incidents, including a four-year-old girl pushed back into the rio grande river after passing out from heat exhaustion. upgrade grin migrant women being caught and wire while having a miscarriage, and others being denied water and extreme heat, also being forced back into those dangerous waters. joining me now is texas state senator, roland gutierrez.

he's also running to unseat senator ted cruz in the united states senate. senator gutierrez, it's always good to have you on our show. texas, no stranger to cruel and reckless immigration stance. in this instance, governor abbott is adding even more danger to an already dangerous journey for asylum seekers. it's not just the migrants that are being injured, law enforcement officers are also at risk. is greg abbott just shooting himself in the foot here with his latest immigration move? >> well, thank you, katie. first off, as you said, these are just stunts. we've seen failure after failure on operational -- over the last four years. failure that is costing taxpayers money. it's resulted in the death of soldiers. one soldier died last year trying to rescue migrants because greg abbott's resources didn't give them the necessary equipment that he needed, he did not have the life preserver. now, sadly, this cruelty is

happening along the border. that same email discusses a woman who died with her two children. this is negligent homicide. it's injury to a child. what's happening along the texas border right now has nothing to do with immigration. what greg abbott wants to do is, i guess, some kind of message. the fact is, immigration crossings have been cut in half since the implementation of title 82 months ago. the same title 8 that republicans fought against because donald trump created a chaos when he implemented title 42, to stay in mexico policy. the fact is they didn't stay in mexico, they came across it. the crossings had no implications for migrants. under title 8, you are deep ordered in a second re-entry lens who had federal prison. the fact is, this biden administration, on this issue, has won the day over the last two months. greg abbott wants to continue,

so his lies, his campaign and misinformation so the people of texas can hear some other story. it's a story of cruelty, unfortunately. >> texas state troopers, as well as a medic at eagle pass claim that troopers were order, they were ordered to deny migrants water and this extreme heat, and to push the migrants, including the children that they encounter, back into the rio grande. the texas dps is investigating these allegations, but of course at the same time, denying that they were treating migrants and humanely. senator, how can the dps actually police itself, especially if it's doing this kind of conduct? >> when you have a history in texas of the guardians guarding themselves, and not doing a very good job, we all saw, katie, what happens with uvalde. we have yet to get any real accountability from the department of public safety. the person who they said was fired was allowed to retire, the other person they said was fired was still at the agency. we saw memo from steve mcgraw, the director of cps, he said no

one is going to be fired and an internal memo. what's happening in texas is crazy, it's bizarre, it's illegal. dps has become no longer the state police. that becomes greg abbott's goon squad. let me make it very clear, there is a lot of police officers, like this medic and others, who want to do the right thing, and continue to push back privately. the fact is, we've gone a bridge too far on this thing, on the river. we are hurting women and children. we are hurting people. this is not immigration policy. you want to be the migrant cop? that's fine. go hand them over to border patrol for processing. the vast bonjour to get deported, it's as simple as that. instead, greg abbott would rather house the men for periods of over a year, and two separate facilities. what's happening in texas is just a straight lie. people need to wake up, because it's costing our taxpayer dollars.

sadly, it's resulted in the death of innocent people that are fleeing just tragedy in search of a dream. >> state senator, roland gutierrez, and when i say one thing before i have to let you go. you don't have to sell me on the idea about seeding ted cruz, so i'm wishing you luck on that run. thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank, you katie. >> thanks to all of you for joining me this morning. i'll be back here next saturday and sunday at 8 am eastern. remember, you can keep up with us during the week by following at katie phang show on twitter, instagram, and tiktok. stay tuned, the sunday show with my friend jonathan capehart is coming up next. coming up next my husband and i have never been more active. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50.

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whitewashing black history, vice president harris takes on florida's plan to teach that slavery has some benefits for black people. >> they insult us in an attempt to gaslight us. we will not have it. >> i'm jonathan capehart. this is the sunday show. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> this week, donald trump is sweating. sweat in, because special counsel jack smith's grand jury in washington, d.c., that is deciding whether to indict him over his efforts to overturn the 2020 election is scheduled to meet this tuesday and thursday. it was just a week ago today that the twice impeached, twice indicted for now, former presidents, said that he received a target letter. this is usually the last step before formal indictment.