johnson got a standing ovation. if you guys remember during kevin mccarthy's speaker vote, the amazing clerk charles johnson was honored. they inducted six new honorary members, including someone who will be familiar to people who watch this network. but also the big star was justice ketanji brown jackson, who was inducted as an honorary member of the delta sigma theater sorority incorporated. that was the big news that broke that she is now our sweet so roar, and we're so excited. dave jolly, christina greer, thank you very much deltas, you won the week. that's the week. all in with chris hayes starts now. now. >> good evening from new york. i'm ali velshi in for chris hayes. as voting is underway from to determine the republican nominee for president in 2024, donald trump is going to be on trial. just today we learned the ex

president must appear in court on may the 20th, 2024, in fort pierce, florida, for the start of his first federal criminal trial in the classified documents case. donald trump will be tried on 37 counts with charges ranging from conspiracy to obstruct justice to willful retention of government documents and making false statements. that ruling came from the trump appointed judge aileen cannon, the first has she has faced as to whether or not she will be impartial to the ex president. there were valid concerns that she would be lenient with him, given a past ruling related to this very case. while the special counsel's team wanted a speedy trial to start in december, trump wanted to postpone the entire trial until after the election, postponed indefinitely. imagine his willingness to be tried if he were to become president of the united states again. because trump argued there is no way he could receive a fair trial while running for president. that argument was just part of

the presidents broader scheme to avoid facing justice or potentially jail time. today judge cannon's with the difference. she said the amount of evidence and discovery in the case warranted a trial date several months down the line from december. so the ex president will be forced to sit before a federal jury and a jury of his peers as they consider whether or not he is guilty of a sprawling 37 count indictment. this news is not great for the republican front-runner, because that date, may 20th, 2024, is right smack in the middle of the primary season. i'm going to take you down a little walk here with the calendar. january 15th kicks off the primary season. those are the iowa caucuses. march 5th is super tuesday, a whole bunch of states vote on march 5th, but come march the ex president has more to worry about than just primaries, because 20 days later he is due in manhattan. march 25th. to face trial and what

prosecutors say was an illegal hush money scheme that he orchestrated during the 2016 campaign. and since this march 25th trial is a criminal trial, he has to physically be in court rather than campaigning. he'll be forced to sit down and listen to how prosecutors lay out the evidence against him. eight days after, that come april, there are a slew of primaries in delaware, new york, rhode island, and wisconsin, and less than a week before his federal trial is set to start in florida he's gonna have to be looking through papers and documents. there are contests in maryland and nebraska and west virginia. that's may 14th. then may 20th trump takes a break from the campaign trail for roughly two weeks, not by choice, but by the order of law. you have to listen to federal prosecutors made their case to the jury and the start of before kentucky and oregon hold their primaries and even if that trial date sticks, right at the end of it there will be more primaries in washington

d.c., montana, new jersey, new mexico, south dakota. july 15th will be the republican national convention in milwaukee, and which point is a possibility the that donald trump will be a twice convicted felon. we don't know. take a look at, this is a broader look at what trump's legal woes work like. he's gonna face a handful of civil lawsuits this year while the civil suits are sure to cause a headache for him, the ex president is not required to be in court for those trials. they're not criminal trials. he doesn't have to be there. the implication of trump's made 2024 trial date are interesting. last time we had broad primaries. joe biden clinch the democratic nomination on may 8th when bernie sanders dropped out. -- became the republican nominee on ten on the third, brock about much of that is an, 80 officially get them on the ticket on june 3rd, in the year 2000, george w. bush secure the republican nomination on march

the 9th, when john mccain dropped out. bill clinton became the democratic nominee in 1992 when he secured the number of delegates he needed on june the 2nd. so it's a good chance donald trump might be trying to secure the republican nomination as he sits for his federal trial. that is a possibility that trump could face two more indictments. lose jackson's 2020 election probe, where we learned this week that trump is officially a target of that criminal investigation. he was officially warned this week that he could face an indictment in that case for his efforts to subvert democracy. and we are brand-new developments out of georgia, conducted by fulton county district attorney fani will willis that we're gonna get to next in this show. but in the midst of chaos, the ex president has warned us what he's going to do, over and over again, if he wins again. just this weekend trump went out of his way to see the praises of jeff judge aileen cannon as he waited to see if she would rule in his fela favor and delay the trial. >> is running indication judge

will grant his motion? >> i know it's a highly respected judge, a very smart judge, and a very strong judge. >> but you appointed. or >> i did, and i am proud to have appointed or. but she's very smart and very strong and she loves our country. loves our country. we need judges that love our country so they do the right thing. >> so they do the right thing. that pressure, that strategy, apparently did not work, but the ex president is warning everybody, literally, about everything. just yesterday posted an ominous video with the caption, a quote, we aren't afraid of them. >> if you do something bad to us, we are going to do things to you there's never been done before. >> while trump is running for the president of united states is the evil villain, and he's telling us exactly what he will do if things don't go his way. >> this is the final battle. with you at my side, we will demolish the deep state. we will expel the warmongers

from our government. we will drive out the [applause] communists, neera exist, fascists. we will throw of the sikh political class that hates our country. we will route the fake news media, and we will liberate america from these villains [applause] once and for all. >> this is some weird stuff. so as we wait to see if trump will get a second indictment from jack smith over trump's scheme to subvert democracy, the question, is will he ever be held to account? the only real way to stop this guy, who is actually running as the evil villain from becoming the actual evil villain seems to be prosecution. my guest tonight has done just that in congress. democratic congressman served as house impeachment manager for don trump's second impeachment over his incitement of the jerry six insurrection. he's joining miss now. >> thanks for having me on. >> you're one of the few people in this country have been

through this process, albeit it was earlier, you had less information, you had to move very fast because an impeachment took place very soon after the insurrection. what's your sense of what is going on with jack smith, the target letter, the things we hear donald trump may be charged with? are you satisfied those of the right things, first of all? >> i would say first, clearly, a series of significant developments. it particularly the port a or the reporting of mr. trump's disclosure of the letter. we don't know what statutes were invoked in the letter, and it isn't necessarily the case it to the extent special counsel or the ground jury are pursuing various criminal charges against the former president that they would be limited to those statutes or involve those statutes at all. it's premature for me to opine on the nature of the indictment, but there is no dispute, as you know, taking back and reflecting on the impeachment trials a year and a half ago, that the president, as mitch mcconnell conceded, was morally and practically responsible for

ultimately provoking the events of that fateful day on january 6th. and we believed he was, ultimately, guilty of constitutional crimes, ultimately the constitutional crime for which he was impeached. a trial was held in the senate. the most bipartisan vote for conviction in history presidential beechmont. not withstanding than it not meet the two thirds standard for vote. at the end of the day, as mitch mcconnell, again, the risk of quoting into opted, he has said this previously that no former president is immune to civil liability or criminal liability. at the end of the day the special counsel, department of justice, are gonna make the judgments they believe are consistent with the law and the facts and i am comfortable with whatever decisions the special counsel and a grand jury may or may not reach. >> what's your sense of the decision about making certain charges and how that difference between what you did in the impeachment and what jack smith has to do? jackson's got a clock. he's got a president who is

recalcitrant, a target who is recalcitrant, he doesn't want to appear because he's too busy running for office. clearly if he got his way and his mar-a-lago was tried and he was to win as president we all know how that would turn out because he's gonna say you can't prosecute me. so jack smith wants to be able to bring charges that he can get in front of a jury and get done with hopefully before 2025. >> what i would say, is and it's important distinction that you raised at the outset, the special counsel has, i suspect, far more evidence available to him into the grand jury than we had when we are prosecuting the impeachment a year and a half ago. that was the case with respect to the select committee on january 6th as well. much of the evidence they were able to glean for the american people at a granular level in terms of the events of january 6th and the president's misconduct with respect to provoking the events of that day, we don't have access to. again, i trust the special counsel to faithfully execute

the duties of his office, and we're gonna have to wait and see what potential charges may or may not arise out of that proceeding. but we have an impartial and independent justice system for a reason. what every one of your viewers should be disheartened by, and i think concerned about, and a series of ominous videos you just played, because they are consistent with the way in which the president conducted himself when he was in office, in this constant undermining and attack of the rule of law, which, as you know, is sacrosanct in the united states. >> it seems to be bleeding into threat now. the stuff that he said about aileen cannon was really a failed idea that she is a patriot, we need more judges who do the right thing. he has not said that about most judges in cases in which he has been prosecuted or sued. this idea of when we come in we're going to -- use to be drain the swamp. yes it's much more aggressive. now he calls himself you are retribution. there's an ugliness around this. we see a bit of it in the house with the recognition --

committee. the power of government could be brought together to bear against his opponents or critics. >> that is a dragged byproduct of the stranglehold that former president trump has continued to have on the republican party, writ large. his shadow looms large within the house republican caucus. the extremists have unfortunately taken power. you see this every week with these incoherent hearings that they have continued to conduct at the taxpayer's expense. you see it in the policies that they are pursuing to restrict feet freedoms, undermine voting rights, and of course to say nothing of their work to try to undermine the economic progress under president biden's leadership. it's deeply concerning an ominous is probably the best word to describe. >> if you can get inside on trump's head, it's different. we understand why he does this. people like ruth ben-ghiat write books about why dictators become dictators. what's in it for your

colleagues in the house? the average house republican? there are exit ramps and off-ramps so often with donald trump, the place where you can say this is enough, or even, like some have said, let's wait to see what the outcome of the trial will be. but now, everyone jumps both feet in behind on trump in some of this crazy stuff. >> i think that question, be devils this all in the house and it's a question we all ask ourselves often, certainly a question we asked ourselves during the course of the impeachment trial. as you know only seven republican senators were willing to choose party country over party and do the right thing. that's a question i think we have to pose to republican members of congress, and other republicans of good faith and tell them to take back their party, to prevent it from descending into the abyss, as unfortunately it has been on this sort of course for quite some time. >> what do you know now but you didn't know when you were an impeachment manager around january six? since then there's been the

house generous committee and then there have been investigations of the indictment in mar-a-lago. is there anything that was key that you didn't know? or do you feel like you had most of the story? >> we had a lot of the story, but as you reference, the impeachment trial happened within six weeks of january 6th. there is a lot that we have learned about the presidents conduct during that day that we didn't necessarily know during the course of the trial, just some of the disclosures, for example, miss cassidy hutchison who testified in friends look committee, powerful and compelling testimony, learning some of the fact that she was able to share with the american public. it was jarring for many of us, not just impeachment managers but many members of congress, by the way, who all experienced sherrie sixth. i was on the house floor of that fateful day. i couldn't be more proud of the work p.j. re-six select committee did in terms of trying to get a better grasp of the fact stop until that point

had not necessarily been divulged, not even publicly, two members of congressman. >> congressman, good to see you. thank you for being here. congressman joe neguse, impeachment manager and congressman in colorado. coming, up a look at how constituency is become a model for backslide no percy in america, but also mafia style charge of the georgia pro prosecutors could be considering against trump. going after the trump gang, next. gang next rst date? whoa. alright, c'mon. earn big with chase freedom unlimited with no annual fee. how do you cashback? book a work trip. earn onekeycash. shake some hands. do not forget to laugh. [laughing] book a get-away-from-work trip. use onekeycash. order some sides. do not disturb. join one key to earn and use rewards across expedia, hotels.com, and vrbo.

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old hour-long phone call in early january of 2021 with and then president told georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger to just find him 11,000 vote, enough for him to overturn the lawful election result in georgia. >> we have won this election in georgia, based on all of this. and there is nothing wrong with saying that, brad. having, the people of georgia are angry, and these numbers are going to be repeated on monday night along with others that we're gonna have by that time, which are more substantial, in the people of georgia are angry. the people of the country are angry. and there's nothing wrong with saying that that you have recalculated. you're going to find, which is totally illegal, it's more illegal for you than it is for them, because you know what they, did you not reporting it.

that's a criminal, that's a criminal offense. and you know, you can't let that happen. that's a big risk to you and to ryan, your lawyer. that's a big risk. so look, all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state. >> that call call never gets old. that call in the multipronged pressure campaign that accompanied it kicked off to an investigation by fani willis into donald trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. there's been a lot of speculation about stands for that investigation and what the specific charges could be. today there is new reporting from fuel all at the guardian saying the georgia prosecutors are preparing to being racketeering charges in that investigation. racketeering is a charge we often associate with organized crime and often violent crime.

fulton county, this is a quote, the fulton county district attorney has developed evidence to charge a sprawling racketeering indictment next month, predicated on statutes relating to influencing witnesses and computer trespass, and quote. now we don't know specifically what that evidence is. laura knows the charge including tampering with nurses -- including parts of which you just heard. i should tell, you nbc news has not confirmed this reporting, with fulton county district attorney, fani willis, has indicated that she could bring charges stemming from this investigation, as soon is the end of this month. sara kristoff is a former prosecutor for the southern district of new york, now our defense attorney. sarah, thanks for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> if you had to cast somebody at that phone call with donald trump and brad raffensperger, it sounds like the stuff we think of from the movies, it

sounds like the way i mobsters my talk to someone. it's sort of inference and a little bit threatening and putting words in someone's mouth. but tell me how that connects to the actual potential charge of racketeering. >> absolutely. that call is the evidence that a prosecutor loves. that's evidence that can't wait to present to a jury. >> he calls it a perfect call. >> here we have the potential of racketeering charges, which is really provides the district attorney with the opportunity to paint a very broad picture of what happens here. the racketeering's draft statute in georgia is broad and allows the district attorney to bring in evidence from different parts, disparate crimes, and tell a narrative story of what she believed happens. >> how is it different what we think of is a conspiracy? >> it gives you a little bit

more breads to charge predicate crimes, so different crimes, the criminal in another them self but charged together as part of this enterprise, forwarding of this enterprise. >> so the concept of an enterprise, because we think about of it we think about most violent crimes in a business reporter, business enterprises that we're making money. does the jury have to understand that? do they have to see the effort to overturn the election as a group of people trying to do it, or is that not relevant? >> the enterprise can be very loosely formed. it's essentially an association of individuals. the people charged can be members of that into prize or frankly merely associates of that enterprise, but it is a very loose term and it's easy to fend to groups, whether a violent gang or more formal organized crime organization

into that enterprise definition. >> so when you think about georgia, on the one hand it seems simple because we all heard that phone call, and most of us we think wow, if i were on a jury i would nowhere to go with this. on the other hand, we are good guys in bad guys in all of these things, and in georgia they're all bunch people in the middle who were called in and called by donald trump and pressure was a pride plighted. and they didn't do his bidding, but becomes unclear whether that's black or white i. guess in the case of a clear criminal charge if you didn't do the criminal thing that trump was asking you to do you are on the right side of this? >> there are likely a lot of individuals who are not charged in this or facing amorphous criminal liability, so they may be immunized or they may have some other protections, but they essentially would be witnesses in any trial against the former president and the individuals who were charged at the end of the day. >> we assume, we only get this information from donald trump, but there's a target letter,

and we assume there will be an indictment coming, could be the next few weeks. we know from fani willis that any point from the end of the month to perhaps labor day she is suggesting that her charges may be brought because she had sent a letter to local authorities to say be ready for this. what is the overlap, if any, between these two cases, and ajax within fani willis care? >> there is exceed never get overlap between these two cases, actually. much of the local investigation in georgia's subsumed within jack smith's investigation. i think what matters to them, frankly, is the overlap of witnesses to ensure the integrity of those witnesses. jack smith wants to make sure that witnesses testifying and a grand jury in georgia that testimony is gonna be consistent with any testimony that witness gives in a grand jury in washington, d.c.. that's the concern. they're not mulling up each other's investigations. does >> that compromise something? if there's a witness jack smith

needs and that witness testifies in fani willis's case, what's the danger? >> the danger is ultimately when that witness has to testify in trial, they may have to situations, two times where they have testified before the grand jury. the danger is they are inconsistent in some way and that can be used to impeach that winners. >> even if it's not a big inconsistency you could tell the jury, well they said this in georgia and they're saying this now? >> i'm a defense attorney now so you draw on any inconsistency to impeach a witness, even very small. good to see you. thank you for helping us. sarah krissoff is a former federal prosecutor in the southern district of new york. still ahead, he was the hidden resistance inside the white house and now he's got a new warning about his old boss. now months after republicans trade booed to black legislators, is the state of tennessee's even a democracy

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democratic backsliding and autocracy in america if. you want to get an idea of what that looks like, take a look at what's happening in tennessee. you remember a few months ago the republican, super majority in the state legislature to national attention for expelling two black democrat lawmakers. that's a republican super majority also started taking aim at the states largest and largely democratic city,

nashville, my trying to cut his governing council in the half, against the little voters. now tennessee is a red state. in 2020 don trump won it with 61% of the vote, but thanks to gerrymandering, tennessee republicans in the senate control 82% of the seats and 76% of the state house. and that republican supermajority is using its power to pass laws like one of the most stringent abortion bans in the country and statewide restrictions on drag performances, which a court later blocked is unconstitutional. it was not always like this as an applebaum writes in the atlantic, quote, not so long ago tennessee was not merely a more bipartisan state but a model of bipartisanship, which in the 80s or 90s was ruled by moderate democrats and liberal republicans. but today tennessee is a model of one party rule, end quote. turn me now is anne applebaum, pulitzer prize-winning historian and writer at the atlantic. good evening to you.

you recently spent time in tennessee reporting on the story. tell me what you found, because we know you for studying real autocracies in places where democracy has struggled around the world. why tennessee, and what did you learn? >> first of all, it's a little tongue-in-cheek, so tennessee is part of the united states, the constitution applies, the bill of rights applies, the nashville is a lovely town. there's no central european gloom. it's not budapest on the cumberland. but you do see in tennessee what is the effect of one party rule, and there are ways in which it is reminiscent of what happens in other countries, other societies, when you have the same phenomenon. there is a technical explanation for it or technical reason why this is true, and this is to do with some of the things you just referred to in your introduction. when you have heavily gerrymandered state and when you have is tennessee does very

strict laws about voting. it's actually got one of the lowest voting rates in the country, maybe the lowest, and that means that lawmakers are dependent on a really tiny number of people to get elected, and very often those the most partisan, the most radical in the state. and so you get people whose only constituents are the people they care about are the radicals. that creates that kind of atmosphere. but there's a kind of existential thing that happens as well, which is that when you're in charge of everything, the republicans are in charge of everything in tennessee, the state legislature, the governors, they appoint all the court positions, there's kind of frustration that sets in as people say well we run everything, but we still can't get everything to be the way we want it to be. and then you get a kind of radicalization. it's almost as if when you're in control, when you have everything, you don't become nicer and more considerate of other people's views. you actually become more radicalized. that is a phenomenon i'm seen

in other countries and we can see it in tennessee, and not only there. >> now we're back full circle to talking about eastern europe, central europe, places you've studied. i've always wondered about this. once you charge of the whole thing don't you get all laid back in are nice revolting because do actually have control and you can be benevolent dictators? your research indicates not necessarily so, are least not necessarily zone tennessee. >> no, the experience of total control, especially right now, when you have a part of the republican party, a part of the voters in tennessee who are now very concerned about social issues. we follow very closely the actual media. a lot of people kept saying all politics is national. now people used to say on politics is local, but people are very influenced by what they see on television. they want real results. they want to achieve things. they see things on fox news and they want it to happen in

tennessee. people don't have that power. this creates a kind of frustration and so people become more radical. they say we need more power, we need to silence our opponents, as we saw you mentioned the legislators being thrown out a few months ago. that's now a reflection of the frustration that the ruling party has, that it is not able to do the extreme things that it's most partisan voters wanted to do. >> i'm curious about this because when you say most politics or national now, this makes a lot of sense when you think about book bans and drag shows and things like that. anybody who grew up in a city anywhere knows that there have always been drag shows and they kevin effect on your life or not, depending on what you choose. most people involved in these book bans have not read the books they're banning. what is the motivation behind rank and file republicans supporting their elected members who are going down the road of dealing with the social issues when in fact there are

real issues in tennessee that i would assume i would want my state legislature to be dealing with. >> tennessee, as you said in your introduction, was a model bipartisanship where things did get done. nashville was a successful city. a lot of international investment there, companies from all over the country go there to set up headquarters. both the voters are seeing, they're seeing these headline culture war issues, and that's what they see on tv, and that's what is motivating them to vote, and they want the legislators to do something about it, and so you get these extreme actions, whether it's book banning or unconstitutional laws about drag queens but get overturned by the federal courts. the porn league of enacting those things is to rev up the base, showing where fighting the culture war, but not necessarily, they don't

necessarily achieve much. they don't change the lives of people in the state. but that is the way politics is going in a lot of american states. >> always good to talk to. you've got 14 hours off before having to talk to be again because i have you back on my show tomorrow morning for denver discussion, but it's always a pleasure. anne applebaum, thanks for being with us tonight. still to come, so time silly thing harder for trump to nail down then in anonymously kerr's how to say the word anonymous itself. >> the latest active resist years is the op-ed published in the failing new york times by an anonymous surreally and now law allows the coward. >> the story of the resist are within the trump administration and his latest warning is next. st wniarng is next ve and spend their money with chase. freedom for kids. hungry? thank you, chef. control for parents. nice. one bank for both.

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meet the team all using chase to keep up with their finances. smart bankers. convenient tools. boom. one bank with the power of both. chase. make more of what's yours. >> on september 5th, 2018, someone inside the white house -- the trump white house -- published an anonymous op-ed in the new york times. quote, i am part of the resistance inside the trump administration. the unprecedented editorial described a reckless and erratic and downright dangerous president, and the writer wanted all of us to know that there were still grown-ups in the trump white house working to stymie trump's worst and most dangerous instincts. quote, the dilemma, which he does not fully grasp, is that many of the senior officials in trump's own administration are working diligently from within

to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations, and quote. trump, of course, reportedly went ballistic at the news, and set off a wild hunt to find the leaker. the new york times knew the author of the essay was, but the paper staff refused to the reveal the identity of the anonymous official, even under enormous pressure from trump. >> the latest act of resistance is the op ed published in the failing new york times by an anonymous, an anonymous, gutless, coward. for the sake of our national security, the new york times should publish his name at once. i think the reporter should go and investigate who it is. that would actually be a good scoop. >> well, it would have the effect of not having to try to pronounce the word anonymous anymore, but with the op-ed firestorm going both within the white house and in the, media trump's obsession with uncovering the identity of the

author who practically pathological. >> -- should never have -- because really what they have done is, virtually, you know, it's treason. you can call it a lot of things. when somebody writes, and you can't discredit, because you have no idea who they are, usually you will find it's a background that was -- it may not be a republican. it may not be a conservative. it may be a deep state person that has been there a long time. you don't know where -- it's a very unfair thing. >> not only are anonymous op-eds not treason, but they are protected by the first amendment. by the end of the week, effectively every high-ranking administration official, from the secretary of state to the vice president mike pence, i've been forced to publicly deny that they were anonymous, that they were the anonymous writer. and trump's lackeys could do nothing but blindly attack the nameless unknown resist or who is in their midst. >> it's a person who, obviously, is living in dishonesty. it doesn't help the president. if >> that individual is in meetings or the national securities being discussed, or

other important topics and they are attempting to undermine the executive branch, that would certainly be problematic, and something that the department of justice should look into. >> if this person really thinks that he or she is being patriotic and not pathetic which is the way i view it, then they should come forward, because you would have -- today. >> -- the efforts to identify anonymous were fruitless even a year later, when his book was published a warning written by anonymous. at this point trump just started pretending that he knew who it was. >> i know who it is. yeah -- tell you that. >> -- >> but we won't get into it. people know it's a fraud. i know who it is. and i know who some of the leakers are. >> in october of 2020 the author was revealed to be a high ranking member in the department of homeland security. eventually resigned his position and endorsed joe biden in the last election. coming up next -- that former anonymous trump official will join me here, with a warning about what

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it was like somebody that was right next to me. i thought it might have been hope hicks. -- i thought it might have been jarred. i thought it might have been mike lee. i was worried, from the great state of utah. i was extremely worried about rand paul. maybe it was rand. >> in october of 2020, a former

homeland security official named miles taylor reveal that he was the anonymous author. he had a book and a new york times essay detailing internal resistance to donald trump from within his administration. this, week miles taylor is out with a new book, released under his own name. it's titled blowback, a warning to save democracy from the next trump. miles taylor joins me. now miles, good to see you again. thank you for being with us this evening. >> hey, ali velshi. great to be with you. >> you write in your book that, regardless of who the next republican president is, they are likely to exist in the same mold as donald trump. that is the warning that you are issuing. you are not just to be worried about donald trump, who has taken every opportunity in the last week to tell us about what he will do if he comes back, and it's all about revenge and retribution -- but you are worried that it goes far beyond that two other candidates. >> much, much farther, ali velshi. and i spent two years trying to map this out, not just in my name, but by talking to senior republicans in congress, former

republicans. senior trump administration officials that i served with from the cabinet level -- all the way down to people who sat outside of the oval office, and the big takeaway, ali, with that the gop has become very authoritarian curious, if you will. . and that it's not just donald trump that has been flirting with fascism -- a lot of these other candidates in the race with him of actually taken trumpism further than donald trump did. they've taken policies that trump himself rejected, and implemented them, like ron desantis, with using migrants as pawns and flying them around the united states, greg abbott has done the same thing. similarly, we have seen that trump's fringe talking point about which unseen side the fbi and the need to cleanse that building become a mainstream talking point. so, trumpism has really grown beyond his control and we've said the operative -- the operative words, ali, vengeance and retribution. donald trump sounds like he is auditioning for a bad batman

movie but that language has been embraced by the wider republican party. >> which is wild, because, 40 years ago, it would have been difficult, if not impossible, to conceive a republican party that was not built in the mold of ronald reagan. what happens now? this trumpism lived to become the rest of the republican party? or did something happen that stops this movement? and maybe that something is losing another election. >> first, i think folks need a wake up call about how serious it is. the whole point of writing this down in blowback was to try to matt out the playbook of persecution that they want to put in place. and by they, i mean the broader maga movement, trump's allies here in washington, who want to support whoever the republican candidate's and staff their administration. and some of the anecdotes that the senior trump officials gave me are shocking. there's playbooks for how to start using the levers of government to start spy on political rivals, to deploy dhs forces into democratic cities

to intimidate the political opposition, to appoint special counsel's to prosecute democratic politicians and left -leaning organizations. i mean, this is very systematic weaponization of the federal government, with the most thin legal veneer of validity that they can put on top of it to justify what they are doing. it's enormously alarming and. i don't think donald trump is the only one who would implement that playbook. in fact, we have seen, again, most of the candidates in this field try to out-trump trump. and, by the way, ali, we have a base of the republican party that has increasingly been radicalized towards the mogahed movement, that whoever wins the -- they are going to have to cater to that base. >> so, we've got three that i can think -- of will hurd, chris christie, asia hutchinson, who are trying to do what they can to try not have donald trump elected. i think they collectively come up to low single digits. most of those who are not trying to out-trump trump in the race are trying to have it

both ways. they are trying to have their cake and needed to, which does not strike me like a moment for that. it strikes me that there are people like you, former republicans and conservatives, who might be one over if the party starts to look like something that it used to be. >> wouldn't it be shocking, ali, if people spoke up and actually had a spine about what we are witnessing in our democracy? before the commercial break, you played a couple of clips of people who were sort of astounded that i criticize the president from within the administration. it was paul ryan, sarah huckabee sanders, and kellyanne conway. three people who i have heard in person, behind closed doors, viciously condemn the ex president of the united states. why are they remaining silent? now, i have said this all week. and it's going to sound deeply ironic coming from me. but i think the biggest threat to our democracy is anonymity. are these people who refused to attach their names to the criticism -- i learned that the hard way. if i have one regret, is that i

did not come forward sooner. because when i did, i realized, it made it easier for other people to come forward. those three people i just named have a responsibility to tell people how they actually feel, and he's not misrepresenting their opinions about the danger of donald trump and his allies pose to our republic. >> what happens post trump? i had a very disturbing conversation a few minutes go with anne applebaum, who said that, once you get power, you don't become a nicer. you don't become more magnanimous. you get your power by becoming authoritarian, you just keep on doing. it >> anne is probably one of the best scholars of this in the world. and what i am sure anne we'd emphasize is that, if we go back to, let's say, the rise of not see nazi germany in world war ii, one of the lesson that we learned from scholars like frigid kayak -- freidrich hayek worst rise to the top, you don't have public officials that come in with expertise and character.

you can't have flatterers that come in and enablers that want to fall over themselves to say, yes, to the leader. and in the end, that is why you get the worst rising to the top. well, when it comes to the administration of the federal government, the american people don't want to dangerous political ideologues dispersing their social security checks and deciding whether or not they get emergency relief if a tornado hits their home. but unfortunately, that is what we have on tap if we make this same civic mistake, and we put a hyper populist back in the white house. >> how risky do you think that is right now? we are a long time now to be predicting. but polls are predicting exclusive than many americans would like to think. >> yeah, earlier in the program, ali, you laid out the prosecution timeline of all of the cases against donald trump. despite that, despite the headwinds from the justice system, and so many cases, it would be my guest that donald trump does end up being the nominee for the republican party. and i hate to say it -- actually think he is a very

good chance of winning the presidency. in fact, right now, the betting markets have him at three times the odds he had before he won the presidency in 2016. >> miles, it's good to see you, as always. miles taylor, whose new book "blowback" is available now. that's all in for this week. you can ali watch weekends 10:00 -- alex wagner tonight starts right now with jonathan capehart in for alex. -- you have a great show. >> thanks so, much ali. it's a weird -- you are literally in stereo. ali, thanks. see you in the morning. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. i am jonathan capehart, in for alex wagner tonight. today, the 2024 political calendar got a little more complicated. the judge and former president trump's mar-a-lago classified documents case has set a trial date. may 20th. 2020 for -- the government expects that trial to last somewhere in the range of