going to be tough. >> yes, although not impossible. the justice department uses this grand jury process and the cases it brings are usually quite strong because of all of the procedural requirements. i imagine the evidence will be strong but the cases that are the most challenging are the ones that go to trial. >> i thank you so much for being with us. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. thank you for the privilege of your time. peter alexander picks up with more news right now. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," a bombshell update, former president trump posting on social media this morning he is now a target in jack smith's investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election, as trump-appointed judge aileen cannon is back in the national spotlight with a timeline for the former president's classified documents trial in her hands this afternoon. and breaking news from

overseas, a u.s. national believed to be an american soldier in north korean custody after breaking away from his tour group and running across the border from south korea into north korea. good day to you. i'm peter alexander in for my friend, andrea mitchell. she is on assignment. she will join us later this hour. we do begin with breaking news here in washington, and it comes from the special counsel's office. this morning in a lengthy post on donald trump's truth social page, the former president writes in part, quote, deranged jack smith, the prosecutor with joe biden's doj, sent a letter, again it was sunday night, stating that i'm a target of the january 6th grand jury investigation and giving me a very short four days, he says, to report to the grand jury, which almost always means an arrest and indictment. this stunning new development signals that special counsel jack smith's probe into mr. trump's alleged role in the

2020 fake elector came has advanced in its investigative timeline. while this plays out here in washington, there's also a pretrial hearing happening in fort pierce, florida, where trump-appointed district court judge aileen cannon could rule on whether the former president could avoid appearing in her courtroom through the 2024 presidential election. so let's get right to nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, nbc's garrett haake, former u.s. attorney joyce vance and "washington post" investigations reporter. ken, let me get to you first on the ground in florida. former president trump broke the news, as he has done before, saying he received this so-called target letter from the special counsel. what does that mean, his receiving a target letter for the special counsel? >> reporter: peter, what it means, he's almost certainly going to be indicted in this case. it's not a guarantee, but i

heard danny ceballos say he's never heard of a case where someone got a target letter and wasn't indicted. what it also means is that essentially a formality, the special counsel jack smith is giving donald trump one last chance to tell his side of the story, essentially, to the grand jury. what mr. trump said was that the letter gave him four days as of sunday when he received it to appear before the grand jury. no one thinks that's going to happen. that would be perilous for him to do that given that the case is at a stage where the grand jury appears to believe that charges are appropriate. nevertheless, he's afforded that opportunity, and, of course, his lawyers are saying that a defendant is not required to appear. big picture, what this means is what we've been hearing in recent weeks and reporting on, that this grand jury looking at efforts to impede the lawful transfer of power was moving ahead, and hearing from dozens of witnesses it looked like potentially formulating a case.

that appears to have come to pass. they are poised to indict donald trump and potentially others in a momentous development that would eclipse this case that i came here to cover today in florida. >> i'm going to ask you more about the case in florida as it relates to classified documents in a morning. let me bring garrett into this conversation. we know the president already has tried to frame this as election interference. he just posted moments ago saying this is a witch hunt. what are you hearing from those around his circle, including from him right now? >> donald trump has a well-worn playbook for how to deal with this sort of thing. he just posted a more graphic friendly version of his longer post, calling it a witch hunt, election interference, arguing that he's being targeted because he is president biden's chief rival for the nomination. we're even hearing a version of it from his rivals on the

campaign trail, suggesting that this is a political indictment pending, perhaps. this has become built in with republican voters and it makes it easy for donald trump to use his indictments to rally support, to raise money. the question here, the theory that i think many of his rivals have operated under all this time is that eventually the weight of all of this gets to be too much for donald trump. but for right now his campaign, his allies are very much leaning into this as they've done successfully for two indictments so far. >> as you know, we've heard from him so far now in all caps. we'll hear from him out loud tonight. he has a fox news town hall in iowa, another opportunity for him to sort of address some of this stuff. >> they've figured out pretty well how to do this kind of thing. he gets to take advantage of an opportunity to build a narrative because they know the rules the doj plays by. jack smith can send him a letter but he can't give a press conference about the case right now. donald trump can go on fox news on prime time to a huge audience, give his side of the

story with friendly questioning and let that drive the narrative for the next four days. the legal problems with come later but the public message control is something they've gotten good at. >> there's the politics and the legal jeopardy he faces right now. joyce, i want your view, if you can, give us a glimpse inside the prosecutor's office right now. do you expect that an indictment would be coming soon? what are the likely charges? as we ask you these questions, i'm reminded of what merrick garland said when he announced the appointment of jack smith. this is not just about january 6th, the day. he said it's focused on whether any person or entity unlawfully interfered with the transfer of power following the 2020 election or certification of the vote on january 6th. so where is the biggest risk for mr. trump now? >> i'm reminded of earlier comments that the attorney general made in january of 2022, when he was trying to convince

people who thought doj was asleep at the switch that they had become awake and that he was willing to follow anyone involved in january 6th and the horrible events of that day to the logical conclusions of their crimes, whether they were present at the capitol or not. and clearly what's going on with jack smith is a look at more than just the events on january 6th. i think we can expect a robust conspiracy to be the centerpiece of this indictment. there may be more than one conspiracy here. there's a lot of art, it's not really a science when prosecutors decide how to charge these things. but there may be a couple of different groups of people involved in different parts of the process in trying to interfere with the outcome in 2020, or smith may have decided that he can wrap everybody together into one big conspiracy and charge it that way. but what he has done by sending trump a target letter is he has made it abundantly clear that

donald trump will be charged in connection with january 6th. there is no walking this back. prosecutors understand that when you come at the king, you had best not miss. and jack smith is clearly ready to take his shot. >> to be clear now, joyce, what is the timeframe you think we are looking at here for this process to begin in earnest with what is likely to be an indictment, and what sort of timeframe would something like this play out? there's an election less than 18 months away. >> peter, i usually resist timing questions. my crystal ball is sort of opaque when it comes to them. here i'm willing to hazard an educated guess. this sort of target letter in this timeframe they've given trump to appear in front of the grand jury, this is an end game move. this is something that prosecutors do when their evidence is compiled, when they've made their decisions. and we've seen these sort of last-minute touchstone witnesses, reports that they've testified in the course of the

last month. jack smith is ready to go. he knows the political time clock is ticking, not because politics will influence his decisions here, but because they will influence both his ability to act and his ability to get the case to trial in advance of the election. we are, i think, in go time for jack smith and his team. >> jackie, walk us through -- take us through your reporting in the days and weeks that followed the election, january 6th itself, and those days that followed, and what we now know was going on behind the scenes at the white house, the pressure campaign, the slates of fake electors, conversations with mike pence, including on the morning of january 6th. remind us of how we got to this spot. >> yeah, peter, there are a lot of parallel threads here within this segment of jack smith's special counsel investigation into the events that led up to the january 6th insurrection and

the attack on the capitol. we do know in recent weeks in particular jack smith has been asking a lot of questions about that december 18th meeting that happened ahead of january 6th in the oval office with former president trump, then president trump, with sydney powell, rudy giuliani and the cadre of the characters that were involved in the schemes to overturn the results of the election and what exactly happened in that meeting. we actually just touched base with rudy giuliani's lawyer this morning to see if he had received a target letter as well, since he is someone who recently interviewed with the department of justice in what some have referred to as a proffer session to provide information and cooperate with prosecutors, and bob costello

told us that he was asked specifically about this december 18th meeting and about some other players involved, specifically john eastman, the legal architect of the former president's push to overturn the results of the election or delay the electoral certification of joe biden's victory on january 6th, and sidney powell, someone who was considered fringe for rudy giuliani. he told the special counsel that he fired her twice in the lead-up to that meeting and she's been under investigation for trying to raise money off of baseless and unfounded, unsubstantiated claims of election fraud. she's being investigated for that and she has become a central target for smith as well. right now we do not know whether any other targets -- or if any other witnesses have also similarly received a target letter. right now it's just the former

president, but there were many other supporting players around him that could potentially be indicted as well. >> joyce, is it likely that other targets letter would have been sent out at the same time to those others who would face arrests and indictment? >> i doubt that there was a batch of letters mailed simultaneously. i suspect it's been more of an evolving process as prosecutors have talked to people who were subjects, potential defendants, in an effort to determine whether there were any cooperators lurking in the pack. i think it's interesting na rudy giuliani has apparently not received a target letter and whether that suggests that his recent visit with prosecutors evolved into cooperation, or whether they simply didn't have evidence to indict him is, i guess, something of an open question. but there's certainly been a process here involving potential targets. >> i want to get to garrett in a quick second but i want to ask you one more question.

there's been a lot of reporting about how if the classified documents case is tried in south florida where donald trump has some advantages, he is a highly popular figure there in ways that he isn't in other places. if this were to take place in washington, d.c., if that is more advantageous to the prosecutors, given the politics by the washington, d.c. area by comparison? >> look, as a prosecutor, i am willing to take more or less the jurors that are seated in the box when i show up at trial. if i charge a case, i believe in the case, i believe that my evidence is strong, and that a fair-minded and impartial jury will convict based on that evidence. judges talk with juries about this commitment, they ensure that people who have a clear bias are excluded from service. at the end of the day, jurors are just like you and me, they're human beings. >> that was joyce speaking.

we'll get her satellite sorted out. garrett, let me ask you about the politics. the last time the former president got indicted, his numbers went up among republicans, not nationwide. clearly that's what they're hoping to capitalize in this moment. >> the first in new york was instructive because that was before ron desantis was a candidate but he was polling much closer to donald trump. it was after the new york indictment that the lead really opened up and donald trump has not yet relinquished. the problem is twofold. they have not created a permission structure to actually go after donald trump at all on these issues. they don't know how to do it. ron desantis gently criticized the former president this morning. he's getting hammered on twitter by donald trump and his supporters. the other problem is this news blocks out the sun. it's much more challenging for a nikki haley town hall or a mike pence speech about some conservative priority issue to break through when the rest of the global media is focused on donald trump. as your question pointed out, this is true in a republican primary but how it plays in a

general election when so many voters we've seen over the last couple of years are so tired of the baggage that comes with donald trump is another question. >> you talk about the baggage. there is more baggage on the plate. ken, your original assignment, why you're standing in the hot florida humidity is the pretrial hearing that is likely to have a major impact on the former president's legal battle. this is as it relates to classified documents. what do we expect to hear? >> reporter: that's right. so judge aileen cannon who drew the case randomly but is a trump-appointed judge, is presiding over the hearing at 2:00 p.m. and she has instructed the parties to be ready to argue on the crucial issue of scheduling. and remember they are very far apart on this, and this could dictate the whole tenor of the rest of the case, because you've got donald trump's lawyers saying that the case needs to be postponed indefinitely, potentially until after the 2024 presidential election, and jack smith saying no chance, this thing has to go to trial by december, and that donald trump

shouldn't be treated any differently because he's running for president. so judge cannon has to decide that issue. how she decides it is going to be crucial to how this case plays out and when it plays out. they're also argue today or talk about issues around the classified documents being used in this prosecution, whether the jury can get access to them, rules about defense lawyers. but the scheduling is the ball game and any news she makes on scheduling, you can be sure we'll bring it to you as soon as we get it. >> ken, it's nice to have you on the ground. thank you so much. garrett haake in person. joyce, i'll ask if you can stay with us for later in the hour. as we continue to follow breaking news about another possible indictment of former president trump, we will have the latest on the details as they become available to us. more on our reporting, "andrea mitchell reports" is back in just 60 seconds right here on msnbc. i was just frustrated... i almost gave up. with miracle ear it's all about service.

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we want to get right back to our breaking news coverage of the target letter sent by special counsel jack smith to the former president, president trump, on the special counsel's 2020 election probe. joining me right now is nbc news senior legal correspondent, laura jarrett. thanks for being with us right now. why should -- what should we read into this happening today? what do we make of it and the timing right now and where should we be watching in terms of how this goes from here? >> we had wondered exactly when jack smith would be winding this down. obviously dozens and dozens of witnesses have come before the federal grand jury in washington, d.c. the process is secret, and of course jack smith doesn't talk about it, the special counsel's office doesn't talk about it. our only real indication had been the witnesses coming in and out of there and waiting for what the former president would say on his social media platform as he did last time, scooping the news himself. as for the delay in him receiving the letter on sunday and us only finding out about it

now, that could merely just be his desire to sort of control the narrative, who can really get in his mine on that level. i wouldn't expect to hear from the special counsel's office on this until there is actually a grand jury that has returned an indictment and that indictment has been unsealed. as we remember, what happened last time, there was a little bit of a lag. and so when the indictment comes down from the grand jury, that will stay under seal until a judge actually decides that it can be made public. >> laura, talk about the unique challenges right now. this would make three separate indictments against former president trump, one in new york, one in south florida, one likely in washington, d.c., potentially another in georgia. how does that challenge the effort for former president trump's legal team to try to balance all three of these trials over the course of the next year plus? >> it's enormously complex and difficult. all the more so because he doesn't really have a full slate of attorneys.

he obviously has a former federal prosecutor, todd blanche, working on the classified documents probe, but that same attorney is also involved in the state case, as you mentioned, if manhattan on a completely different set of issues. so he's got his hands full, if he's also expected now to be able to work on this case if, in fact, the grand jury indicts as it relates to his efforts to cling to power, that's going to be quite a lot with a lot of different schedules, legal arguments, motions that need to be filed on very specific dates. the manhattan hush money case has a trial date. we'll wait to see what the judge does on the classified documents probe. there's going to be a lot of work that needs to be done on different timetables. the idea that he doesn't have a strong, full-powered deep bench of attorneys is going to be something that hamstrings him. >> fortunately for us, laura jarrett is our senior legal

correspondent. thank you so much. straight ahead, how former president trump's possible rivals are reacting to the possible indictment, this time in connection with election interference. this is "andrea mitchell reports." you're watching msnbc live. ve i'm taking a two-year business course. i've been studying a lot. i've been producing and directing for over 50 years. it's a very detailed thing and the pressure's all on me. i noticed i really wasn't quite as sharp as i was. my boss told me about prevagen and i started taking it. i feel sharper. my memory's a lot better. it just works. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. my active psoriatic arthritis can make me feel like i'm losing my rhythm. with skyrizi to treat my skin and joints, i'm getting into my groove. ♪(uplifting music)♪ along with significantly clearer skin... skyrizi helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue.

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we're back now live on msnbc. how will a third possible federal indictment play for donald trump in the 2024 election, in just the last hour

florida governor ron desantis was asked by our colleague, nbc's gabe guterres, about his potential rival possibly being indicted on charges relating to the 2020 election. >> do you think that former president trump's actions were wrong on january 6th? >> there's a difference between being brought up on criminal charges and doing things, like, for example, i think it was shown how he was in the white house and didn't do anything while things were going on. he should have come out more forcefully, of course that. but to try to criminalize that, that's a differently issue entirely and i think we want to be in a situation where you don't have one side just constantly trying to put the other side in jail, and that, unfortunately, is what we're seeing now. >> stunning how that clears like the lowest possible hurdle for criticism of the former president. joining me is nbc news national correspondent gabe gutierrez you

heard in that exchange, tim miller, a former communications adviser to jeb bush back in 2016, former obama white house press secretary, robert gibbs, jonathan alter, author of several books about american presidents, and back with us is the "washington post's" reporter calling in her sources. gabe, you're on the ground with the florida governor. fair to say that former president trump took the spotlight away from desantis today. is this a good sign or bad sign? the headlines yesterday were about how he's struggling and start to go shed some staff and now the headline is that the former president may get indicted again, and nonetheless, for desantis it isn't necessarily a headline that helps his campaign. >> reporter: that's right, peter. look, every time the former president gets into legal trouble or there are mounting legal issues, he's indicted or there's a possibility of being

indicted, his poll numbers seem to go up. but florida governor ron desantis' rollout of his military policy has been overshadowed by these developments. that exchange came after another question from a reporter who first asked him about these developments, he brushed them aside saying he didn't really pay attention to them. i came out and pressed him on whether he thought the actions on january 6th were wrong and, peter, you said it, this clears the lowest bar potentially for criticism against former president trump. but it is significant in a way because governor ron desantis has been so reluctant to criticize the former president at all regarding this very issue. he normally takes the question and starts talking about the weaponization of the department of justice and tries to make the argument that he will clean house at the fbi on day one. this is the first time he's actually said that former president trump should have come out more forcefully on january 6th and he didn't do anything while he was in the white house.

but just within the past few moments, peter, former president trump's campaign has highlighted that response and is calling it a, quote, disqualifying take by governor desantis. so as this plays out in the coming days, it should be interesting to see. but, again, governor desantis very reluctant to really attack former president trump on this very issue, side-stepping the question mostly. but for the first time saying that he should have come out more forcefully and done something on january 6th. >> it comes as ron desantis has seen his poll numbers drop below 20% for the first time since he entered. speaker mccarthy was asked about the news on capitol hill earlier and i want to get your reaction. here's what he said a short time ago. >> well, i guess under a biden administration, a biden america, you would expect this. if you notice recently, president trump went up in the polls and was actually surpassing president biden for re-election. so what do they do now?

weaponize government to go after their number one opponent. it's time and time again, i think the american public is tired of this, they want to see equal justice, and the idea that they utilize this to go after people who politically disagree with them is wrong. >> it is remarkable to hear that, tim. just remembering what kevin mccarthy was saying in the days even on january 6th, including on the house floor when he said the president bears responsibility for the attack, that urgent call he had with the president as the attack was under way, and yet right now it's clear that the former president has basically co-opted all the leadership of the republican party. >> yeah, i think it's important to say on the merits that is an alarming statement from the speaker of the house, somebody that has as much power and influence as kevin mccarthy has, as close as he is to the presidency, to go out and claim that joe biden and joe biden's department of justice are doing

investigations based on poll numbers, is a flat-out lie. it's something that kevin mccarthy knows is a lie. he understands how grand juries work, he understands how the criminal justice system works. plenty of members of the republican party and democratic party who have committed crimes who have been politicians have been indicted by departments of justice of both parties. that is how our system works. kevin mccarthy knows that and he's contributing to a lie in order to run cover for donald trump who is about to face his third indictment, the third of which for trying to overturn our democracy. so it's pretty sick that he said that and i think it's important to point out, peter, like you said, it's a huge difference from what mccarthy and mcconnell, the leaders of the republicans in the senate were saying in 2021. mcconnell said that former presidents are not immune from being held accountable in his speech on the senate floor. >> when kevin mccarthy says something like that that he knows is not true, is that complete cynicism? is that this is all politics and

just speaking to the base? >> getting in donald trump's good graces. he knows he owes the speakership to donald trump, that's why he's doing it. kevin mccarthy is not confused by how the grand jury system works. >> he's stunning to hear it yet again. jackie, let me ask you. i know you've been reaching out to sources in the trump world. what are you hearing from them right now as they face what is begin a pile-up of indictments and now another potential indictment? >> the big question that sources inside and outside trump world are all asking is, who else has received a target letter? that is the question that we are also posing and passing along. so far there are no indications that other people who were working closely with trump in the efforts to overturn the results of the election have received a target letter, and we also don't have really any clarity on whether jack smith is going to sort of stagger these

indictments or if they're all going to come at once, as we had just been discussing with joy vance, who is really like to be unlikely, but we are still on the lookout for that since there are a number of other notable players who were just as involved and really kind of the legal architects of this scheme to overturn and delay the electoral certification of joe biden's victory on january 6th. people like john eastman, sidney powell, rudy giuliani, a lot of these key players who were involved with the outside efforts that trump was directing from inside the white house, and who were involved in some of these key moments that we know that prosecutors have recently been asking people who have come in to testify before the grand jury. we have also heard from our sources and reported this morning that this target letter comes as jack smith's team is continuing to interview witnesses. so this is still very much a

live investigation indicating that more target letters could come, but right now we are just focused on trying to figure out what exactly this target letter said to the former president other than obstruction, as he posed in his truth social post. >> and most, of course, defendants or would-be defendants are less inclined than the formal president to be the ones who publicize their target letter. that's information these other potential defendants would be disinclined to share. robert, we saw after the rush money case in new york, the mar-a-lago classified documents, the indictments in both cases that the former president's support among republicans ticked up again. i'm sure we'll see a headline in the next several days trying to frame this as a win for the former president. does he still have that teflon ability that he may have had in the past, and if you are a part of the biden campaign right now, without touching this, how do you capitalize on moments like

this? >> well, peter, i don't think there's any evidence that -- at least in this past has hurt donald trump, as you've said, it's made him stronger. my guess is when we do polling in the next five to seven or ten days, you're not going to see this, particularly in the republican primary, hurts donald trump all that much. i think if you're joe biden or their campaign, you sit back and watch. i don't think there's a lot of need to put spin on the ball on this one. i think it's just -- this is a challenge, obviously, for trump and republicans in a general election. i think watching this play out in the republican primary is their best strategy. i would just add one thing, peter, on this idea. it's a little rich watching republicans talk about the weaponization of government and the idea of throwing opponents in jail. i'm old enough to remember when the prevalent theme in the 2016 case was the chant "lock her up".

again, to watch all of this is just a different level of kabuki theatre. >> and remember that the "lock her up" theme was focused on what he claimed was a mishandling of classified documents, to say nothing of an effort of trying to overturn an election as he is accused of doing as we witnessed on january 6th and days around it. jonathan, let me ask you about this. we've got three indictments, likely three indictments already, a fourth could come from georgia soon. at what point does this become a legitimate campaign talking point for democrats? if you are a democrat right now, how do you handle this issue? because at the end of the day this is going to help former president trump with republicans, but what are independents, the rest of americans who decide these things going to be thinking? >> i think democrats and independents and the press should change from a frame of who is going to win, who is ahead, who is behind, to a frame of, what are the stakes?

and the stakes in the 2024 election are, are we going to be in an autocracy or will we remain a democracy? and this case, unlike the documents case, we've had those before with former national security adviser sandy berger, general david petraeus, we've had classified documents cases in the past, sex cases in the past, stormy daniels, we've had that kind of case. this one goes to the very foundation of our republic, the peaceful transfer of power, the rule of law. this, if it goes to trial, which in all likelihood it will, indictment is inevitable, this will be not just the trial of the century, this will be the trial of all centuries in american history. it goes to the foundation of what we stand for. >> and then, jonathan, how do

you compete with all the noise that former president trump makes right now? the special counsel isn't going to come before the cameras, but donald trump is going to speak to any camera and on any social media platform that will let him. >> well, that speaks to the role of democrats and surrogates, and i think it makes no sense for the biden campaign to get involved. all other democrats need to really step up and explain that the president of the united states in late 2020 and early 2021 tried to steal an election and cling to power illegally, and was at the head of a criminal conspiracy to steal the election. that's what the fake electors charges that are coming are all about. and so this is -- it's hard to

think of a more serious constitutional business than what we're talking about, and democrats need to make that clear to voters who resfonlded responded in this message in 2022 and can respond in the days ahead. >> all of you, my friends, thank you very much for being with us right now. when we come back, another breaking story. north korea detention. an american soldier captured after crossing the border without authorization. the new details, i just spoke to a source a short time ago. what they're saying happened along the border with north korea. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" live. ng, and we would experience turbulence. i would watch the flight attendants. if they're not nervous, then i'm not going to be nervous. financially, i'm the flight attendant in that situation. the relief that comes over people once they know

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this is a stunning headline, breaking news from north korea where a u.s. national is being held in north korean custody. u.s. officials are telling nbc news this individual is an american soldier who faced

disciplinary actions in south korea for violating some part of the status of forces agreement there. he was released from custody, was supposed to be leaving korea when he was detained. joining me right now is nbc's chief foreign affairs correspondent and anchor of this program, andrea mitchell, also joining us is nbc's chief international correspondent, keir simmons. i want to get to you with the stunning story as we learned about the developments over the course of the morning. an official familiar with the matter telling me this soldier was part of a private tour who was at the border between south and north korea and as it was described to me, while on the tour he broke away from the group and ran into north korea. what more do we know about the circumstances here? >> i have a little bit more information just now from a senior administration official. so this soldier, army soldier, had apparently violated some part, as you say, of the joint

security agreement. he had completed his punishment for that. i'm not sure exactly on what terms, but he had completed his punishment and was leaving south korea. he was escorted by the military to the commercial airport. apparently that's about 60 miles from the dmz. and was not in handcuffs, was not escorted by military police, so he was not under guard technically, but he was escorted by the military from his unit. they took him as far as they could, which was not to the gate. he then joined the commercial tour and went to the area in the middle of the dmz, you have the buildings in that joint security area where literally the south and the north are face to face and you are right face to face with the north korean soldiers.

so he then bolted across. that would not be difficult to do. i'm told that the administration, the military most likely, the joint security officials there, did communicate with pyongyang, with their counterparts when this happened in the early hours of this morning korean time, they did communicate that this was willful, but that he was not an aggressor, that he was not under any orders to do this. it was on his own. and they had still not -- they heard back, they heard confirmation that this was not an aggressive action from the north, but have not heard anything more about this man in custody. so that's the latest on what we know. he had completed his punishment and was supposed to be heading home, and clearly didn't want to do that, joined the commercial tour. so it's not a border, technically it's the dmz, which

the no man's land. but he is in north korean custody. >> keir, i want to bring you into this conversation. take us to the dmz here for a second for those, which is almost everybody on the globe who has not been there. as andrea notes, this is where you have south korean and north korean forces literally staring at each other. we always see the images of the guys with bin -- looking across the border. how do you reconcile that circumstance between two countries that don't communicate? >> it's a fascinating thing because it's described as the most tense place in the world, and yet you have these tours, tourism, actually, where you can go visit and you can see the room where negotiations took place after the korean war. so it is something that if you take a trip to south korea, you can go and do. now, as you mentioned, i've been to the other side, to the north

korean side. it is a few hours' drive from pyongyang through kind of countryside, and a very different place, of course, from south korea. not developed. so where he is now will be an interesting question. it wouldn't take long for them to move him quite quickly once they got hold of him. i do think that moment of heading across the line -- i mean, it's quite stunning, because as you say, it's being watched very closely. and we saw, if folks will remember, back in 2017 when a north korean soldier ran across the line in the other direction to south korea, was shot by his comrades, his north korean comrades. he had to be dragged to safety by the south koreans across that line through the dmz. so the risk at that moment of taking that -- making that break and going across that line, it's kind of hard to get your head

around. it raises questions about what was exactly in this person's mind. that's one of the big questions, the mystery of why he has done this, as well as, of course, where he is now and what happens next. clearly washington will be working very hard to try to figure out how to get him back. >> andrea, the urgency is the north koreans' terrible record in terms of treatment of american detainees in the past. >> and the fact that we have literally no communications. it's interesting that we did communicate, get confirmation. but since the ups and downs of the trump administration, which was the summits and the beautiful letters and the relationship, starting with rocket man and the very aggressive comments, and then proceedings. so as you covered the white house, of course, that was quite a roller coaster. but then the administration tried very hard with the entry

of george -- of joe biden, of course, to reach out and try to establish negotiations and nothing worked. there's been no progress. in fact, there's been violation after violation by the north koreans of all of the u.n. resolutions about ballistic missiles, icbms, a submarine launched missile. there's so many aspects to this right now with north korea, communications are at a really low -- >> i'm going to interrupt you briefly. i want to take our viewers to the pentagon where we're hearing from the defense secretary on this issue. >> what you know about this case right now, are the north koreans forcibly detaining this soldier? are you concerned about what security breach this could represent? and for general milley, general, there has been a recent increase in the number of aggressive incidence over syria involving russia. what do you think has caused this? is this a result, do you think,

of the ukraine war, pressure on russia, and does the u.s. need to send more assets to that area? >> good afternoon. what i can confirm, and i would say up front that we're very early in this event, and so there's a lot that we're still trying to learn. but what we do know is that one of our service members who was on a tour willfully and without authorization crossed the military demarcation line. we believe that he is in custody. so we're closely monitoring and investigating the situation and working to notify the soldier's next of kin and engaging to address this incident. in terms of my concerns, i'm absolutely foremost concerned about the welfare of our troop, and so we will remain focused on

this. and, again, this will develop in the next several days and hours and we'll keep you posted. >> and on the syria piece, there is a bit of an uptick, but i wouldn't overstate it too much. >> we were listening to the defense defense secretary lloyd austin on this issue detailing what nbc news has been reporting about this u.s. soldier, willfully as he describes it, and without authorization crossing into north korea where in the words of the defense secretary, he is presently in the custody of the dprk, of north korea right now. we'll have more information on that. my colleagues are here. we'll be back with more breaking news about president trump possibly facing another indictment. this time in connection to the 2020 election interference. we'll blow through that commercial break and get right to the conversations. the congresswoman sat on the

january 6th select committee. served as one of the first impeachment trial members. i appreciate a lot of the developing stories we're covering right now. first, your reaction to the former president receiving that target letter on the special counsel's efforts. >> i'm very interested to know the specific charges. the committee referred several matters, potential violations of law to the department of justice. it's clear that this has to do with the january 6th misconduct and the events leading up to it. i'm very curious to find out the details. and i guess some relief that there will be accountability at the very top. we've seen a lot of the rioters themselves, prosecuted correctly, been convicted,

sentenced to prison. but to date, the people who organized it, who schemed that up, have not been held accountable and i think that is important that happen. >> let me ask you then more specifically. what criminal charges do you believe that mr. trump should be facing? given the investigation that you conducted? >> well, we referred four matters, obstruction of an official proceeding, conspiracy to defraud the united states, submission of false statements. and incitement to insurrection. the conspiracy charges have a need to prove intent, corrupt intent. so i think there's been discussion about what did he know and when did he know it? certainly, the fact that you thought you won the election, i don't think he did, does not excuse you from inciting a riot. trying to overturn, to submit

false statements of fake electors to replace the actual electors. so there are a number of very serious charges that we sent. we'll see which of them the special prosecutor, who by the way, some of my colleague are saying this is the biden administration. this special prosecutor was established so this would not be a political matter. so that it would not be the attorney general. it would be someone independent from the attorney general. we'll see what evidence he has. i'm confident that he would not have sent this target letter, apparently on the verge of indicting the expresident if he didn't feel that he could prove these charges beyond a reasonable doubt, which is, of course, what a criminal conviction requires. >> congresswoman lofgren, you served on the trump campaign, the rnc after the 2020 election race, hundreds of million of dollars for what we know was a

nonexistent election defense fund. as you put it during the hearings, the big lie was also a big rip-off. do you believe he talked about criminal intent, do you believe the special counsel would be looking at fraudulent fundraising charges here as well? >> it's possible. clearly the fundraising was for an account that didn't exist based on assertions that they knew to be false. whether that is wire fraud, we'll see what the special counsel thinks on that. certainly it was not the right thing to do. and he picked the pockets of a number of very small donors. people who believed in him and i think he abused their trust. it's really pretty disappointing. >> let me ask if you i can. the special counsel was able to speak to individuals under oath that your committee was not able

to. mike pence, mark meadows. what are some of the key facts that you were unable to uncover, maybe the key questions that you were unable to ask that you hope special counsel jack smith has asked or has resolved? >> well, as you know, meadows would not come in. he knows everything. so if he actually did testify and not claim the fifth amendment, he would know everything the expresident did, said, saw, and ended to do. >> what do you think mike pence would have said to the special counsel? the former vice president was there side by side with the president in those key days. >> we didn't get the full conversation on the morning of the 6th where the expresident attempted to force the vice president to throw out the votes during the electoral count proceedings. the vice president left his staff, went up to the residential part of the dwelling

he was in and so it was not his part of the conversation was not overheard. i think that would be very important for the public and for the prosecutor to know. certainly, we heard from a number of the vice president's close staff, his lawyers, his chief of staff. so we had a pretty good idea of what the vice president had done and more importantly, what he refused to do. >> let me ask if you i can specifically as we talk about this breaking news. the former president remains the front runner, to be the republican nominee for president again in 2024. you've heard his public comments. as it relates to these indictments, the possible indictments. some of them were autocratic statements, his critics have been very quick to point out. what do you believe is at risk for the country if former president trump returns to the white house? >> the constitution and our

democracy, to be plunt. he has the intention. he's even said this. he intends to suspend parts of the constitution if he is reelected. certainly he intends to destroy the three branches of government that keep each other in check, and to take all the power for himself. i think it is what he's outlined is very threatening to our democracy. and i hope that voters are mindful of that. it is disturbing that some of my colleagues here on the other side of the aisle who on the 6th and the 7th said in public and on the record that it was the expresident's responsibility. he did this. and now they're trying to somehow change it into something else. they know better. and they're putting our democracy at risk by defending this absolutely indefensible conduct. this absurd what aboutism.

one of the things i remember in law school they told you, if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bs. and that's what these guys are doing. trying to baffle us. >> it seems like there's been a lot of attempts at baffling lately. let me ask you, the "washington post" and others are reporting, jack smith and some of the questions that he helped raise, specifically focused on the december 18th oval office meeting. powell was there, pat cipollone, the white house counsel. they said the meeting was unhinged. take a quick listen and then quickly i'll get your reaction. >> if how much time did you have alone with the president? i say alone. you had other people with you. his aides before the crowd came running. >> probably not more than 10 or 15 minutes. >> i recognized, okay, there is nobody in there from the white

house. mark is gone. what's going on right now? >> i opened the door and i walked in. i saw general flynn. i saw sydney powell there. i was not happy. >> that's pat cipollone describing those who he saw sitting with the president. who else do you think deserves a target letter? >> i'm surprise that had giuliani apparently has not received one. we don't know about eastman. we don't know about meadows. certainly, we refer not just the expresident but others. there's a lot of culpability among his top circles. >> we appreciate your time and perspective. that will do it for this edition of andrea mitchell reports. thank you for fong us online and on twitter. you can follow me at peter alexander. chris jansing begins with more

of our breaking coverage. good day. i am chris jansing at msnbc headquarters in new york city. on this day when the breadth and depth of political peril for former president trump are expanding, critical decisions are being made with the expresident moving ahead in multiple court rooms in multiple states. trump today revealing and two law enforcement sources confirming, he has been named a target in the special counsel's january 6th investigation. that means he almost certainly faces an arrest and an indictment. how might that case intersect with the classified documents case where a critical question on timing could be answered by the end of the day. the decision facing the judge is one that will have an impact, a major impact on the 2024 race. whether that trial happens before or after next year's presidential election. but we