rick angle gets tonight's last word, the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. >> tonight, investigating the former presidents intent. jack smith's team questioning trump's inner circle. about whether or not he privately acknowledge defeat in the 2020 election. and the major announcement from the fda that will expand access to birth control, as even more red states enact abortion bans. and hollywood on strike, actors officially joined the writers guild on the pictured lines, we will break down where things stand. as the 11th hour gets underway on this thursday night! ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening once again, i am stephanie ruhle.

we've got brand-new reporting that reveals special counsel jack smith is taking a very close look at what donald trump was saying to his circle the days after the 2020 election defeat. it comes after prosecutors questioned multiple witnesses about whether trump privately acknowledging the days after the election that he lost. according to four people briefed on the matter, the times says that one of those witnesses was trump's son-in-law, and senior adviser, jared kushner, who testified to the grand jury last month. precautionary, he's not the only person who knows what trump was saying in 2020. here is just a reminder of what we learned in the january 6th committee hearings. >> i remember maybe a week after the election was called, i popped into the oval just to give the president the headlines and see how he was doing. and he was looking at the tv, and he said, can you believe i lost to this [bleep] guy? >> as they investigate trump's efforts to overturn biden's when, the prosecutors are also talking to michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson, about

what happened there. >> they met not just what the state, but with local election officials. the january six committee hearing, and the subsequent reporter issue as you are pointing out, really did present an amount of evidence. and i have a lot of confidence that the justice department is taking that seriously, and also conducting their own research. >> meanwhile, there is no investigation into the fake electors scheme. arizona's attorney general is now looking into efforts in that state to overturn the 2020 results. and of course, to swing the election to trump. there is also news about trump 's bid to delay his classified documents trial indefinitely. in a court filing, jack smith said absolutely no way. he made his opposition crystal clear, flatly rejecting the results to trump's legal team. special counsel said that the request had no basis in law or, fact. with that, let's get smarter with our lead off panel. hopefully they will have some facts. peter baker, chief white house correspondent for the new york times.

jeff bennett, host of the pbs news hours, and msnbc political contributor. and how it is here at 30 rock in the flesh, former u.s. attorney and former assistant deputy attorney general. i will start with you since you are here, this new york times reporting. what does it tell you about jack smith's strategy? >> most important words that you gave up front. in a circle. and combine that with knowing that this happened last month. so it is not just that these penetrated the inner circle, he has gone all the way around it. we've got kushner, we have mark meadows, we have rudy giuliani, and this is a month ago. this is just a little bit that we get from the mountain that he already has. that's the first thing it tells me.

you look ready to go for it. >> a, just because they talk to them does it mean that they said anything. >> you want to talk to everyone. in fact, kushner on the actual, that trump feel he lost? he's gonna testify, it seems, that he actually believed that it was stolen. no big deal. smith just wants to know what he is going to say. >> why does that matter? what does it matter what trump technically believed? >> great point. it doesn't, but it's nice for a jury to hear. as you've got two witnesses, you talked about upfront, that he knew he lost. it puts the lie to everything. as of november, knowing that he lost, put into play all of these schemes. they are against the law anyway. you can't incite an insurrection, even if you think you lost. but it is them nice for a jury to hear. that he lost. and they are going to hear it. and kushner, even if he does not say it. they now know it's a big part of what a grand jury does, lock somebody in. one last point about kushner, he is super involved in the fund raising thing. which is what smith himself actually initiated. everything else is from january 6th. who else testified last month? note gronk sketch, and he is in the middle of it as well. and he's on a call saying how we can make this as scandalous as possible to build some of

our followers out of some more money. >> peter, what do we need to pay attention to in your colleagues reporting. this is pretty big news? >> it is big news, remember there is an extraordinary amount of evidence already out there. if trump didn't, know he has a reason to know that what he was saying wasn't true. first of all there is a testimony, people who talk to him at the, time we know this from the january six committee and from reporting. it looks at my wife and i wrote, and what from other people have written. he listed griffin, you played her tape right there. mark milley, the general and the joint chief of staff was called. the meeting after the election, the next guy will handle this. meaning the next president, meaning he did not win. we were also told that he was told by people like the attorney general, bill barr, that there was nothing to the claims that he was making. he went out and made them anyway.

the january six committee literally put together a timetable showing that on one day, somebody on president trump's own staff, own, team would know this allegation was not true. and the next day, he would say it publicly anyway. we know reporting from our friends, at the washington post, that the trump campaign hired at least two organizations. two agencies to investigate some of these fraud claims, and that the agencies that the trump campaign itself hired said that they couldn't substantiate the things that the president was saying at the time. so we know from plenty of evidence already. he thought he had every reason to know that what he was saying was not true. that's good enough legally, obviously harry is a lawyer and i am not. but jack smith wants to take it the next step and see if the president actually acknowledged in private that he knew he did not win. >> but all of this will fly out the window. if trump is successful and his hernia delay plan. yes? >> yes, it is one escape route, a massive escape so far.

>> it's a trump card? >> no one has ever said that before. it's true, and by the way, you don't have to worry about the controversial notion, does he need to pardon himself? there is no way. and it was true if they started it a year ago. no way that the appeals process has run, that means no way a conviction is final, and all a person has to do when that conviction hasn't run its course is tell the doj, stand down we are done with this case. doesn't have to pardon that all. that is right. if he pulls this one out of his hat, or even, another republican wins. >> yeah, let's just say there. let's say that trump isn't the candidate. or doesn't win. if he's not the candidate, and it's another republican, and they win, they can save him? >> and probably would. >> wow. jeff bennett, there are so many investigations. what stands out to you about where the special counsel's in the january 6th investigation? >> it stands out to me that the notions of donald trump's state

of mind before january 6th. why that matters. why that is significant. it is significant on a couple of levels. one of which harry spoke to. it matters to the jury. to hear, potentially, that donald trump was saying in public one thing that the election was rigged. that it was a fraud. and in private, he was acknowledging that he knew that he lost. which also speaks to the reporting from the new york times, that's what he said to the joint chiefs of staff, mark milley, in an oval office meeting either in november or december of 2020. the other reason it matters is that in the court of public opinion. given that historic, unprecedented nature of this case, and for the special counsel to effectively educate the public on why a case of this magnitude matters? it helps anonymously to know what donald trump was thinking at that time. and what is so significant about the jared kushner role in this, is that shortly after donald trump lost the election, jared kushner tried to cut his losses. he left his role as a senior adviser in the white house, and

into that leadership vacuum you had a cast of characters. you had rudy giuliani, sydney powell, the my pillow guy. this cast of conspiratorial characters, in the oval office, and who, according to the testimony and evidence. helped to fuel this conspiracy that led to donald trump's right to overturn the election and everything that transpired on january 6th. >> but jeff can we remind our audience. jared kushner didn't leave because she was sick of what was happening. he went to the middle east. he went to the middle east as bidar treasury secretary, steve mission. so the two of them could independently raise money for their investment funds after they left the white house. it wasn't like he wrote off on a white horse to do the right thing. he tried to enrich himself while he still had the white house pill.

>> that's right. i will not dispute that point at all. i was just making the point that when he left, into the leadership vacuum, stepped in all of the people who helped donald trump. plays that call to brad raffensperger in georgia. place it to the votes in arizona. now we have an investigation, we learned, run by the attorney general in arizona. looking into the more than two dozen republicans who signed off on fake electors slates. >> the facts are not on donald trump side. i want to share just some of what we have heard on the january six hearing. watch this. >> repeatedly told the president, no one certain terms. i did not see evidence of fraud. that would have affected the outcome of the election. >> how did that affect your perspective of the election when general bill barr made that statement? >> in that perspective, i respect attorney general bill barr. so i accepted what he would say.

>> the allegation did not prove to be true. and we had to relay the knows that someone told you about those votes, or that fraud, nothing came of it. >> tack on to that harry, what you mentioned earlier. the companies that trump's team hired to find the fraud. they found nothing. we don't seem to have any facts on donald trump side saw him delaying this, hoping that a judge would look kindly on him. that is the whole ball game for him? >> 100%. it's the flip side of the point that they're making. there is this terrible escape hatch. it's terrible just because it's such a terror gagen of law. and facts. but that aside, that is his only shot and the law and facts are overwhelming and smith is

going to be constructing them tightly. >> jeff bennett, donald trump is already facing two indictments. a lot could be going on as voting begins next year. what is all of this going to be like for our nation for voters? because right now donald trump is clearly in the league. he doesn't even want to potentially debate. he doesn't want to go to -- but all that's going to do is put him on the stage where he's going to answer a question about all of this stuff? >> you are right about that. and in short it is going to be, potentially, a mess. donald trump will be under active investigation. to potentially have concurrent cases where he is also then showing up in iowa, and new hampshire and, all of the early states suggesting that these prosecutions could be plural prosecutions. our political vendetta at the hands of joe biden. that is what he has been saying for months. so you will have this on parallel tracks, really,

potentially. what strikes me as potentially as the trump legal team tries to indefinitely delay this case. that falls in line with donald trump's overall legal strategy from the beginning. it's to drag things out for as long as possible. until the legal landscape changes. if he is the republican nominee, this january 6th case. or the mar-a-lago documents case that could be delayed, potentially by a year. and if he wins that he could have the authority to dismantle this entire thing entirely. it is a real test i think for judge aileen kalin who we all know was a trump nominee who was confirmed by the senate after donald trump lost the election. who had to be brush back by the appellate court for being overly differential to donald trump. setting aside the merits of the request for a delay by the trump legal team. they included in their filing a really transparent effort to cast this entire prosecution as a political enterprise.

and i'm curious to see if she left that stand. or if she says no, the special counsel case cannot be reduced to a political vendetta. it stands on its own merits. we will see where she ends up on that. >> jack smith basically told trump's team to take a hike. with this request to postpone indefinitely. how much pressure is on aileen cannon? >> quite a lot. >> the world is watching. >> so much. and it would be one thing if they said for another day. but they just said leave it open. if she does that, if she literally lets them have their way of keeping it indefinite, she looks terrible. >> but isn't this a move to help her? they say, we don't want it indefinitely. and she says no, how about a date really far in the future that also still hooks them up? >> it's not what a good judge, even a neutral one does. i've got one day, you said nothing, i told you to give me a date we said nothing.

we are going with the doj. that is what we are going to see her stuff. not simply is she in the tank form, or is she a solid judge? she's had four criminal cases. this is the next big moment for sure. >> it could be a bigger one. >> peter baker, geoff bennett, and harry litman. good to see you in person. now another story out of the white house, the secret service announced that it is closing the investigation into who brought a bag of cocaine inside of the white house. without any leads or suspects. nbc's kelly o'donnell catches is>> tonight's, the secret service coming up empty. after days of investigation, and sophisticated forensic testing, officials cannot identify who left a small bag of cocaine in a storage kobe used for electronic devices, near this west wing entrance. house speaker kevin mccarthy, raising doubts. >> if they can't tell us who brought it, what else is happening in the white house

that they can tell us about? what else is coming into the white house that they can tell me about? that concerns me more now. >> lab tests, conducted at the fbi crime lab did not develop latent fingerprints and insufficient dna was present, for investigative comparisons, investigators say they use video and entered zogg to compile a list of 500 individuals who had access to the entrance of the days before it was found july 2nd. but without physical or video evidence, officials could not connect the drone to any suspect. >> it's a complete failure, this thing is ridiculous. >> the white house said that it is reviewing the findings. democrats acknowledge despite law enforcements efforts, the mystery remains. >> it seems like at this point it is just inconclusive. >> with us for more, andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel, and former senior member of the mueller probe. he is now a law professor at

nyu. who in the white house would make a decision, we're gonna close this thing and move on? >> this was a decision made by the secret service. however, the white house counsel has the ability to say, let me see your findings, and they can bring in the fbi, or some of they forensic work. and come back to the secret service and say not so fast. to me, the secret service here looks like they cannot find a dead cow in a closet. i mean this is really just not a sufficient investigation. and by the way, not saying, oh, joe biden had a bag here. or hunter biden. but you should do more than just say, there were no fingerprints or dna on the evidence. and we looked at surveillance logs, and we didn't see somebody actually leaving it there. which it seems highly unlikely. how about interviewing people? >> why wouldn't they?

and frankly, i would say suspicious. because of such bad law enforcement. >> you interviewed but people. but you know what you don't do before you interview people? publicly say that there's no dna of the incident and no fingerprints. why would you let the whole world know that if you are then going to interview people. better for people to think that you might have that. and then interview people. so that the person who actually left it there or planted it there, whatever the reason is things that there may be more evidence out there. to me, this is really one where -- just do more. i mean you are handing the republicans and issue and legitimately. >> take politics out of it, right? so this is our white house and the secret service is in charge with protecting it. does this not raise bigger questions of how the fbi is protecting the president of the

united states? >> you, know i don't know if i would go that far, this is not a huge bag of drugs. >> no! but it might not have been a bag of drugs, it could've been something else it is not a weapon but it could've been anthrax, i mean as soon as you hear why powder. i'm old enough to remember those days. how serious it was. and this is when, for that very reason they're dealing with the white house. and they're dealing with somebody having brought cocaine into the white house. we don't know if it's an insider, we don't know if it's a visitor, you would do more. when i heard that they said you know there are 500 people who had access, right, interview them. i have been through investigations where thousand people have been interviewed as an initial matter and this is the white house. this is what you should do. again, this is one more where i think we put politics in it for the moment.

you are handing the republicans an issue on something that really doesn't have to be an issue if you're just thorough. >> well, that's that. andrew weissmann. thank you so much for bringing us that legal perspective. >> coming up, access to women health care is under attack. but today a major breakthrough, the fda approved an over the counter birth control pill. michigan state senator, mcmorrow is. here and, later hollywood grinding to a halt as members of the sack after votes to join the rioters on a picket line. we'll have more on the divide between studios and actors of what you're going to watch this fall. it's going to be a whole lot of 11th hour for you. but tonight, we're just getting underway. don't go anywhere. ed the experian app because i wanted to check my fico® score, but it does so much more. this thing shows you your fico® score, you can get your credit card recommendations, and it shows you ways to save money. do so much more than get your fico® score. download the experian app now.

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legal challenges from conservatives? >> of course, conservatives have made no secret that when they said they were going to leave contraception alone, they were lying. it's happened here in michigan, it's happening all around the country and this is a long overdue but it's also going to be a game-changer. especially for younger women. women who are in high school. women who are in college. words hard to get an appointment. i myself went to the university of notre dame. they made me sign an affidavit, promising that i would not use contraceptives for reproductive reasons in order to get. it and i went months without my prescription. this is absolutely necessary. but make no mistake, republicans are going to come for this and will comfort hard. >> so what is your advice for lawmakers and other states? you have been trying to protect women's reproductive rights in michigan. and i mentioned it a moment ago. in iowa, tomorrow, the governor is signing the six-week

abortion ban. so when you're speaking today, your fellow democrat lawmakers in states like iowa, what is your advice to them? >> the advice is to keep going. not long ago, iowa elected barack obama to the presidency. it wasn't that long ago that iowa was a democratic state. and what happened in michigan didn't happen overnight. what happened with rome didn't happen overnight. since the day roe was decided, antiabortion activists started chipping away, chipping away and chipping away at access. but if you look at michigan, if you look at kansas, if you look at ohio where organizers just turned in 700,000 signatures to get a ballot initiative on to protect abortion access, we know that an overwhelming majority of all voters side with keeping roe intact. side with letting this be a decision for women and their doctors alone. so this may feel like a defeat about friends in the iowa legislature. the fact that this was a special session called just to put this barbaric ban in place. it's going to feel defeating. but i also saw the numbers of

people who showed up at that capital. they are organized, they're galvanized and they can do exactly what we did here in michigan. >> you talk to voters every single day. beyond reproductive rights, what do voters care about in your state michigan? a very important state heading into 2024. >> you, know michigan is a perfect example as a counter to florida, whether it's donald trump around desantis. all of these states that are banning books that are prohibiting lgbtq kids from existing, from being who you are. michigan is showing that there's another way forward and in the heart of the midwest. we are expanding reproductive rights. we're expanding lgbtq civil rights, to making sure that you cannot be discriminated just because of who you are here in michigan and we're creating opportunities for everybody. and when i talk to voters, all around the state, the fundamental belief is we just want to get back to normal. we do not want to wave in a conspiracy theory hellhole that the republicans are putting out. we don't want to relitigate the

2020 election. you want to move on with our lives. and we want everybody to be able to live exactly as they are. >> people want to put food on the table, they want to have good jobs, they want to have good education. we have very positive economic news this week. we are clearly seeing inflation cool but are people in michigan feeling that yet? >> i don't think yet. because there is sort of a dwindling effect when you are putting food on the table, when you are going up to the grocery store. there are still things that do cost too much. and there's also the emotional attachment to people still not being able to buy their first house if they're trying to start a family. i do think that people feel positive. they feel positive about the fact that here, in michigan, unemployment is at its lowest rate ever.

there are new jobs, new companies, moving into michigan every day and it's really exciting. but they have to keep getting that message out. they have to keep sharing with people all the good news that is coming down and all the federal funding that michigan is starting to see being ejected into our economy and infrastructure, in our battery plants, in our manufacturing facility and it's going to be a really exciting time for everybody. >> well you had something very exciting but not positive happen very recently. your republican colleagues, amongst themselves, a violent brawl broke out at a recent meeting. can you please tell us we realize we are not in michigan? what in the world is going on? >> the michigan republican party, where to even begin. it is the worst of the worst right now and this was a state republican party meeting where a number of delegates and, i'm quoting here, from the police report got kicked in the balls. there was a fight between themselves, there's flanks that the party and, you know, it is kind of instinct to kind of laugh and say they reach the bottom of the bottom but my advice to democrats and this is really key that just remember how laughable it was when donald trump descended on an escalator and announced that he

was running for president. or how laughable it was when the access hollywood tapes came out. and we thought there was absolutely no way. we can't assume that a republican party is going to implode on itself. right now governor rick snyder, who was the governor here in michigan, responsible for the flint water crisis is fundraising for state house republicans. so they are trying to quietly take back their party through the state legislature. i feel like i've been a broken record for the last year. the state legislatures are the be a little. so there's some bulking happening. and some corners of the republican party. but we can't take our eye off of them where it really matters and making sure we get good people in the office. >> well, you know i can't in the segment without telling you that that story is just completely nuts. yes. >> it is. >> what a loser i am. just say, give me the hook.

mallory mcmorrow, -- i mean that story is ridiculous. michigan, thank you, great to see you, great to see you, we're gonna leave it there. luckily this is late night tv. coming, up alabama senator tommy tucker bill is joining criticism again tonight. this, time from president biden. jason johnson and stuart stevens are here. not just on what tucker bill is saying but more importantly, what he is doing. when the 11th hour continues.

>> tommy tuberville got a lot of attention this week for some comments he made about white nationalists.

but we cannot just focus on what he is saying. we need to pay attention to what this lawmaker is doing. tuberville is blocking hundreds of military appointments and promotions, and trying to make it harder for service members to access abortions. today he blasted the republican calling the move totally irresponsible and saying it was jeopardizing u. s. security. back to with us to discuss, jason johnson, and morgan state university an msnbc political contributor, and stuart stevens is here, a veteran of the mitt romney and george w. bush presidential campaign with the lincoln project in his new book coming out this fall, the conspiracy to end america, five ways my old party is driving our democracy to autocracy. it comes out in just a couple of months. jason, to you first. tuberville. he did speak to defense secretary austin about this earlier today, but what did you think of the standoff? this morning he wasn't even sure if he had time today or

this weekend. >> i'm not shocked. this is what republicans are. tuberville is not a bright man. he supports racists which basically means that he is one. i don't believe in any individual who will say that they don't know what nationalism is and you live in alabama and at the same time you are asked of having white nationalist in the military was a problem and then you go about trying to undermine our american military. in any other circumstances would just be seen is a treasonous idiot. i don't know why we're considering anything he does to have legitimacy other than the fact that you have a bunch of cowards within his organization that are not really holding them accountable. i'm glad president biden called him out, but at the end of the day, unless you have leadership in the republican organization, and the white house called for serious reform through how we go through these nominations and appointments, you're going

to have cracked pot maniac racists like this undermining our government. and he will be the first person to say, if anything ever happens to u.s. soldiers abroad or any -- he will be the first to say we weaken our military, we are not as tough as we used to be. but he's a reason we don't have the head of the maritime courts on the joint chiefs of staff because of people like him. >> and that's the point i want to focus on. because we could call him a nitwit and a dope, stupid, anything, all day long, and tomorrow, but there is real consequences, stewart, around what he is doing, and doing to our military. can you explain this? >> look, this is a bar thing where the republican party has become the anti law enforcement party, talking about defunding the fbi, they're on the side of putin, for the most part. the two-leaning candidates for the nomination, and trump and desantis both agree with putin that the genocide in the ukraine is a territorial dispute. and that cut off aid to ukraine. they're attacking the justice department. it's really a pattern for this lawlessness that they have

adopted. if there was a large criminal organization in washington, how would they act differently? they would attack law enforcement. they would attack the justice department. they would attack the judicial system as part of what they have attacked against trump, not just that they don't agree with this indictment, this entire attack on the basic infrastructure of law and order in civil society in america. and that's what the republican party is doing. there are people who republican party that don't agree, some of them are in congress, but i think as jason said, they are cowards and they won't speak. up. >> civil society in america doesn't just matter to americans. we are on the world stage in the rest of the world is watching. jacob morgan chases was asked about the rest of the world are their potential fear of trump getting back in the white house. i want to watch his response. >> i would worry about other trump presidency to by the way. but i think there has always been an isolationist element. it took a lot to get us into world war i and it took a lot

to get it into world war ii. but i think if you go to washington, d. c., when it comes to ukraine, it has been pretty tight. republicans or democrats. so when it was needed it was there. >> sir, what do you think about jeremy diamond making these remarks, not just talking about the economy, and banking, his name is popping up because a bunch of wall street heavy hitters want a guy like him, potentially him, to run. what do things going on here? >> what i don't understand about a lot of these businesses like jeremy dimon is they are in this system that has allowed them to prosper unimaginably where. this american citizen for free enterprise. donald trump is a direct attack upon this. rhonda sanchez is an attack upon this. he went after the happiness company. why don't they stand up and say, no, this isn't in the american mainstream, this isn't good for our economy. it's not just enough to say, well i'm worried about donald

trump. you have to really take a leadership position. otherwise you're just a bystander sliding into a top russi. >> jason, what do you think? >> one, i think a lot of really wealthy men have decided that they want to pretend that they want this job. mark cuban, the starbucks, everybody is like hey, when rich guy guardian. no, donald trump is an anomaly, and we have seen what that anomaly has done. the vast majority of people who are president and aspire to be president have spent their lives in service, and i'm not saying being a business person isn't important. we all love job creators, but that's not service. that's not negotiating with people. it's not developing the skills you need to run our country and operate in congress. i think what he says is fine. i think any intelligent american would say hey, i don't see the crazy guy over trying to overthrow the country with a violent coup is good for

business, but i don't think anyone should be looking to anyone like that to be president. what we need is an aggressive, active president willing to combat internal seditionists. that's what we need right. now we don't need a business guy who has made their life by shifting cash around because the reason they shifted the cash around is why you have so many protesting throughout the country right now. so jamie dimon as a citizen great, -- >> always great to have you both here. stuart, welcome back from european vacation. it looks fantastic on social media. coming up, for the first time in over 40 years actors, big ones, small ones, across the board, are officially on strike. what it means for your favorite shows, the future of hollywood, and a whole lot of jobs in this country, when the 11th hour continues.

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and you'll also get this free beneficiary planner. and it's yours free just for calling. so call now for free information. >> i am shocked by the way that people that we have been in business with are treating us. i cannot believe it, quite frankly. how far apart we are on so many things. how they plead poverty, that they're losing money left and right, when giving hundreds of millions of dollars to their ceos. it is disgusting. shame on them. they stand on the wrong side of history. >> just hours from now, hollywood actors are hitting the picket line to strike. they ask for better wages, health benefits, and guardrails

against artificial intelligence. the contract negotiations officially failed. they joined thousands of rioters who walked off the job in may, affect aleutian down all of hollywood. we should know that comcast, the organization that owns msnbc universal is one of the companies represented by the alliance of motion picture and television producers. without a ring in my old friend cnbc reporter alex sherman. alex, this is the first time both have been on strike at the same time since the 1960s. >> by the way, trivia question, did you know who the sack president was a 1960? >> oh? >> ronald reagan. >> get out of town. look at you bringing politics. how did we get here? >> so what is going on right

now with the hollywood strike is that the microcosm of american business, and will try not to get wonky with you, but i will take you on a small little journey here. >> let's go. >> for 20 years or so, this system worked great. people generally watch tv on cable tv hundred million households subscribe to cable. very profitable model. we do companies are very happy. box office, movies, that's how the movie business gets meat. the financial crisis gets. we go into a low interest rate environment. investors start looking for growth stocks. when interest rates are low, that's where the investor markets. go netflix starts to get all of

the subscribers. and suddenly -- >> golden age of streaming. starts. >> golden eagle streaming starts. investors love it, with this low interest rate environment. so they start pouring interlaid netflix. and then the meeting says wait a minute, netflix is not only the revaluation high, they're getting money in their coffers and their outspending us on content, or spending requisite to us. we need to transition our build businesses to be more light networks. that happens 2019, 2020. for a little while it seems to work. but then what happens? well, interest rates start to creep up and the growth at netflix last year stops. and so netflix plummets, and with netflix plummeting in valuation, on the legacy media companies plummet as well. the problem is, we are ten years behind netflix on streaming, so netflix now finally as a business that

makes money. but comcast and disney and paramount are now stuck in a model that still doesn't make any money, and that's where we are today. >> so when we are seeing these companies are being greedy, they won't pay their actors, they will pay the rioters a living wage, the actors and writers have a good argument to make. nothing was adjusted when we went to a streaming world and they are not being paid fairly how they used to be. >> that's the other side of this coin. the media companies are saying look, we're not making any money on streaming, actually. you need to be aware of the realities of the situation you're in. but the rioters and the actors are saying, we are getting paid on the old model. we haven't had a new contract here that makes up to the fact that all of these people now are watching on streaming. so we want to get paid in a way where we can somehow figure out,

if all these people are watching my show on streaming, i get paid the requisite amount for that. and right now that system doesn't exist. so it's a very reasonable argument that they are making. the other side of the coin, though, is that if the media companies finally say, you know what, fine, we will pay. we will pay you what you want. what's gonna happen? i bet he what is going to happen is that the cost of the streaming service is gonna go up. so from a consumer standpoint even though -- >> it's the classics, we want wages to go up, but as soon as they go up a big fat company says, where am i gonna get money from? the consumer. >> nothing to eat the cost and wants their value just keep hanging on wall street. they're gonna have to come up with some new ways to make money. >> i am not saying that the media industry is in crisis. but is it fair to say it is in

the decline? bob iger just said this week that for the first time disney would consider selling off their tv assets. he said that those who are striking are being unreasonable. whether he is right or wrong, it's a serious statement for the head of disney to say, maybe we don't need tv anymore, linear tv. >> yeah. it was the heart of the business. he also said they're looking for a strategic partner in espn, which has long been the crown jewel of disney. so if you read between the lines here, what you are seeing is a company that used to make all its money in one way, kind of saying you know what? we are tossing in the flag here are raising the white flag and saying we're not going to make this money this way anymore and

we need to adjust for realities. skeptics would say you should've done this five years ago, but now at least he's finally saying, you know what we need to find out some way forward so that we're not anchored as a legacy media company and we don't have the growth that netflix as. >> he's not willing to say let me negotiate and find a way to pay these people more money. but this week he found a way to extend his own contract. doesn't that make it more difficult, at least four appearances, for those who aren't making any money? they're on the picket line and he's making millions saying guys, we don't have the money? >> it's not great optics. and it's not just him, david -- also makes a ton of money as a media ceo. >> and this discussion is not ending. hopefully contract negotiation won't either. alex sherman, great to see you. thank you. we'll be right back.

when nature and science get together... pretty sweet things can happen. like our senokot laxative gummies. to relieve occasional constipation,

senokot starts with the natural senna plant that science transforms into a yummy gummy! sweet! senokot laxative gummies. >> the last thing before we go

tonight. damar hamlin's heroes. the espy awards is an annual event honoring top athletes of the air. but it was an emotional tomorrow and that stole the show. our -- has more. >> the more hamlin. >> the audience, rising from their seats. some of the biggest name in sports. showing their support for an emotional in damar hamlin. the bill safety, tearing up onstage at the espy's, as he

honored the men and women who saved his life. just six months ago, during a game in cincinnati, he went into cardiac arrest after a standing attack. members of the bill's athletic training team, led by nate presque isle, and including daniel kelvington washed until the fields. >> they are intensely working on tomorrow hamlin. >> provided what was likely, lifesaving cpr. as the world watched. >> please welcome this year's recipient of the award for his safety, the training staff of the buffalo bills. >> he brought them all onstage. his mother, tearing up. watching her son share a hug with the people that saved his life. >> the mere, first and foremost, thank you for staying alive brother. >> recently, hamlin has been advocating for cpr education. it's echoed on stage. >>