i am in a studio that is in an undisclosed location, and in one of the 50 states. actually, it isn't one of the three states i hang out in. i couldn't see the shot of steve is it the same jacket? >> well, i mean, steve and i never did a show together though we do have a constant mind meld, i'd say, right? i think it is evening steve or i guess we cease evening steve without the jacket. maybe it is -- what a gentleman. let's applaud it. >> there it is. >>? >>.

>> they're not gonna do him like. that it looks pretty and wrinkles. i'm going to tell you, a close-up, there may have been lent. there is no crushing. hats off to you. >> it looks great. it looks great, he sounds great. >> have a good show. thank you. >> the breaking news of the night is that the very first significant filing in the case of the united states of america versus donald j trump and not a, the criminal defense lawyers case lied and there has been much suspense surrounding the first filings in that case. much of that spent has centered on judge aileen mercedes cannon, who was appointed by defendants trump to the federal court after joining the republican investigation. the society that grooms right-wing republican lawyers to become federal judges. judge cannon's ruling on the current dispute before her,

which is when to set a trial date in the case, might tell us whether she is going to be as blindly devoted to donald trump's defense as she was when donald trump's criminal defense lawyers first asked her to prevent prosecutors from using evidence they obtained with a search warrant from donald trump's florida residence. every ruling drudge cannon made in that proceeding was overturned by a panel of judges in the circuit court of appeals that included two trump appointees. there has not been an equal amount of suspense about how the trump criminal defense lawyers would handle this stage of the case. from the start, all experienced observers have been predicting that the trump side will try to delay every aspect of the case as much as possible, and that is certainly what they are trying to do in their first significant filing in the case, a ten page pleading followed by two signature pages, asking the

judge for an indefinite delay in the trial. the trump lawyers do not suggest an alternative date to the december 11th trial date proposed by the prosecutors. the trump lawyers ask for no trial date battle. they insist to the judge, that a trial date does not really matter anyway because they, and donald trump, are expecting her to dismiss the case based on pretrial motions they promised to file. at the top of page two of their filing, donald trump's criminal defense lawyers tell the judge who he appointed exactly what donald trump expects of her. quote, the intersection between the presidential records act and the various criminal statutes at issue has never been addressed by any court, and in the defendants view, will result in a dismissal of the indictment.

the only person who can dismiss the indictment is the judge in the case who was appointed by the defendant in the case, and the defendant is now telling that judge in writing that she will do that. quote, will result in a dismissal of the indictment. if judge kenan had the slightest concern for judicial decency and the appearance of impartiality she would, of course, have already recused herself from this case, and not leave herself in a position tonight to be taking orders publicly, in writing, from the man who appointed her. there is nothing legally improper or unusual about that line in a normal defendants pleading. it is extremely unlikely that there is anything in the

presidential records act that can legitimately get this case dismissed. criminal defense lawyers are supposed to pursue every possible avenue of defense, including the highly unlikely. no federal judge in history has ever presided over the criminal trial of the person who appointed that federal judge. that has never happened in our history. no federal judge in history has ever been presented with this particular sharp, and obvious conflict of interest. so far, judge cannon has shown no inclination toward doing the right thing, and recusing herself from the case. so, she remains in a position to dismiss the indictment and now has it in writing from donald trump that that is exactly what he expects there to do. donald trump's criminal defense lawyers make several reasonable points in arguing in favor of a delay in the case, including the massive amount of evidence

that prosecutors have handed to the defense lawyers. quote, the government produced more than 428 300, records in excess of 833 450 pages consisting of approximately 122 650 emails, including attachments, and 305670 documents gathered from over 90 separate custodians. the initial production also included some 57 terabytes of compressed raw video footage so far. there is approximately nine months of video footage, but the final number is not yet certain. the government has not informed the defendants when it at dissipates producing additional discovery, what that discovery entails, or to even approximate when it will be in a position to fully comply with its discovery, obligations under the law. the trump lawyers mentioned the case of united states versus

reality winner, that saw a 16 month spread between indictment and these scheduled trial date, and they cite another criminal case involving classified documents in which, quote, the defendant was indicted on january 24th, 2019, but the case was not tried until september 12th 2022. a virtual shutdown of the courts during covid, no doubt, had something to do with that timeline. still, these are reasonable lawyerly points to make. a trump lawyers say, quote, to begin a trial of this magnitude within six months of indictment is unreasonable, telling, and would result in a miscarriage of justice. that is normally the outer limit of rhetoric in pleadings like this. miscarriage of justice is about as far as serious lawyers ever go in these kinds of pleadings, rhetorically. the trump lawyers begin the document as a political document, unlike any we have

ever seen in a legal, criminal case. they begin with a speech that has nothing to do with the law saying this extraordinary case presents a serious challenge to both effect and perception of our american democracy. that is pure rhetoric that has no legal meaning whatsoever. the next sentence is very carefully written, and, this is important, it is technically true. it says, the court now presides over a prosecution advanced by the administration of a sitting president against his chief political rival. that is, technically, true. this prosecution has been brought by the justice department which is part of the biden administration. president biden has been studiously distant and completely uninvolved in any

way with any aspect of the investigation that has led to this point. now, when donald trump makes a similar point publicly, he lies. he describes the prosecution, not to the biden administration, but to joe biden himself. he treats it as if joe biden is jack smith, as if joe biden is the prosecutor. donald trump tells the lie to his voters that president biden is prosecuting him. on the night he was indicted in this case, donald trump read a written speech from a teleprompter, saying that he was indicted on espionage charges, and obstruction of justice, because a, quote, corrupt sitting president had his top political opponent arrested on fake and fabricated charges. that would, of course, be outrageous, and un-american, if

true. donald trump and his speech writers, later in the same speech, said, i will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after the most corrupt president in the history of the united states of america. donald trump promised to do exactly what he falsely accused joe biden of doing. that is the kind of trumpian lie that we did not expect from donald trump's criminal defense lawyers, the ones who haven't quit over any. the criminal defense lawyers who signed this filing on -- have all signed their names to a lie. on page six, donald trump's criminal defense lawyers tell a purely trumpian lie in their own words. completely of their own volition. they change the phrasing they used on page one of their filing, about this case being, quote, a prosecution advanced by the administration of a sitting president against his

chief political rival. they changed that to calling this case, quote, the prosecution of a leading presidential candidates by his political opponent. that is a lie. every one of the four attorneys who signed this lie know that it is a lie. they know the president biden is not prosecuting donald trump. they know that this is not the prosecution of a leading presidential candidate by his political opponent. that line is now the lowest point that the trump criminal defense lawyers have sunk to in their defense of the pathological liar who they are representing. we now know that the trump criminal defense lawyers will lie to the judge that donald trump appointed, and that they

will do it in writing, and they will do it without the slightest trepidation that the judge donald trump-appointed will, in any way, fault them for lying to her in writing. that is what they have presented to judge cannon on page six of their filing. they presented, two, her out a test of her willingness to accept their lies, but a belief that she will. it is now the most important test that judge cannon has been presented at this early stage of the case. will she except donald trump's lawyers are lying to her in writing, that this is, quote, the prosecution of a leading presidential candidate by his political opponent? if she accepts that line as fact instead of rejecting it as a lie, and she will have chosen sides in this case.

if she hasn't already. donald trump and his lawyers believe that she has chosen sides. donald trump's criminal defense lawyers make an apt comparison for their client on page six. they compare his case to the federal prosecution in the southern district of florida of another former high ranking government official. they are referring to panelist former dictator, manuel noriega, who they approvingly site for having asked for, and successfully obtained, a continuance in his prosecution, exactly what donald trump is asking for now. donald trump's lawyers don't mention what happened when manuel noriega finally went to trial in federal court in the

southern district of florida. the delay of the trial didn't help very much. donald trump's new legal role model, and we'll noriega, was found guilty of racketeering, drug smuggling, and money laundering, and sentenced to 40 years in prison. leading off our discussion tonight barb mcquade, former u. s. attorney at law professor at the university of michigan law school. she is an msnbc legal analyst. also with us bradley moss, a national attorney who represents people who work in the intelligence community. barb, let me start with you. i want to stress that i found the ten pages of pleadings to be perfectly reasonable for lawyers representing clients in a situation like this. touches on frederick, political rhetoric at the bit ling beginning. a profoundly outrageous and trumpian lie in there, that one lie about, this is joe biden

who is prosecuting donald trump. i want to get your reaction, both to how you think judge cannon will react to that particular line, which is a prove-able lie, and an offense to the court, and the federal judicial system and the rest of what you've seen in this pleading. >> i think judge cannon would like it. as you say, it is political rhetoric. it is playing for the crowd as opposed to playing for the court. the court is not going to fall for that. she understands that a special counsel has been appointed to avoid any appearance of partisanship. so, to suggest that it is president biden who is calling the shots here is completely inaccurate. i think it will be, and should be offensive to this judge. as for the other things they are asking for here, this extraordinary delay, i don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that six months isn't necessary to review the discovery in this case. that's what jack smith has asked for.

i don't think it's unreasonable to think that that date might not stick. to see it now, that we should set a date past the election day, is premature. that is because the right to a speedy trial belongs, not just to the defendant, but also to the public. the likelihood of a trial resulting in conviction fades as time goes by. that is because witnesses memories fade, and evidence grows stale, and, meanwhile, as a person who's an alleged defender, he's still out, possibly committing new offenses. there is a public interest that the dredge has an obligation to recognize, to a speedy trial for the public. what is more often the case, lawrence, not that she said some date in the future to kingdom come, but she set a reasonable date, and if things happen that cause you to have to delay, it you make a finding under the speedy trial act, and make a reasonable delay at that time, incrementally, by a few months. you don't kick it all the way until after november of 2024. >> and bradley moss, the trump

lawyers -- by the way totally understandable, they should be asking for this. a proper representation of their client would be, let's ask for as long as a delay as possible. that is absolutely fair lawyering. what do you make of the elements they used to make that argument? >> the whole time i was reading that filing last night, the one word that came to mind was chutzpah. the fact they had the temerity to make these claims, to try and push this off as this, to say, my god, you can't possibly prosecute him. there's an election 16 months away he might be the general election candidate for. you have to push this all off. it was profound arrogance. let's think about what some of those factors, as you mentioned, they referenced. they talked about the reality winner case. they talked about the issue of the chinese national accused of economical espionage. they were found guilty, but they were held pretrial

detention. there wasn't an immediate concern about them committing new crimes in the interim. they were being detained at that time. it's not something donald trump is facing at the moment. yeah look, this is what they had to do. the lawyering was what you'd expect. it was to push it off as much as possible, hope the judge goes for it. i agree with barbara. i did not see the judge even judge cannon, going along with us. she will set a date. i will see if it sticks. it's not going to be pushing this off indefinitely. >> i mean, barbara, everyone in the courthouse knows that, when you set a trial date, it is always written in pencil because you don't really know what's going to happen between now and then, and various things that could legitimately come up to pushback, including areas of discovery that legitimately must be pursued.

judges also have techniques when they think that process is being abused of holding people to real deadlines. at this stage, what do you see as judge cannon's many options tonight? >> well, i think she could bring the parties and and talk with them. i think that's what's going to happen when she has that cepa conference next week. that is a good opportunity to talk about the scope of the discovery, how difficult it will be for the parties to review them. it may be that the defense council has to review all of that material in a scif, a special room designed to handle classified information, which will certainly slow down their review of the material. i would then expect her to enter a motion, and order, that says, the dates for the following events will be as follows, discovery completed by ex-date, motions shall be filed by ex-date. plea cut off, this date, and finally a trial date. now, if motions get filed and it takes a long time to resolve those, certainly that date could be pushed off later. i would say someday perhaps in december or perhaps into the spring strikes me as a reasonable place to start. if it should be necessary to

extend those days that seems reasonable. she has to protect that right of the public to a speedy trial. she has to be the one looking out for that. >> bradley moss, in this filing we see donald trump's lawyers are echoing without specificities something donald trump says in the campaign trail about the espionage act doesn't apply to this. it is the federal records act presidential records act that applies to this. they seem to suggest that's where they are expecting judge cannon to dismiss the case. they didn't even hint at what the argument would be for dismissing the case. >> we have seen sort of the preview of these arguments put out by legal pundits over on fox, and a couple other conservative networks. they are arguing the presidential records act insulates a former president and a former vice president, for that matter, from the region of the espionage act. it's nonsense, there is no indication congress ever intended. that their statutory roles and construction indicate that the courts are going to say, no, not happening, the espionage act applies to you. this is one of the things they

had to put out there as a preview of where the intend to go with this. we fully expect it. they would make that argument, this is what they believe should have been the applicable law. let's notice what they're not doing here. they're not indicating, they're not challenging, at least, for the moment, using the classified information procedures act. remember, donald trump keeps saying, i declassified everything. everything that came back with me, doesn't matter if it is and writing, or whatever, i declassified everything in my mind. for the moment, at least, donald trump's lawyers are going to get clearances, and they're going to comply with seaport procedures before they ever review these documents, their client says were declassified. >> they do have hints in their filing that they don't accept that all of them are classified. again, pretty vague on that. that will probably be in their pretrial motions at some point. barbara mcquade, bradley moss, thank you very much for starting off our discussion tonight. i appreciate it. coming up, today, in georgia, a grand jury was in a panel to

consider possible indictments of donald trump, special prosecutor jack smith is investigating donald trump for the same possible criminal conduct in georgia. that is next. ladies... welcome to my digestive system. when your gut and vaginal bacteria are off balance. you may feel it. but just one align women's probiotic daily helps soothe digestive upsets. and support vaginal health. >> we may be one big step

closer to donald trump becoming criminal defendant trump in fulton county, georgia, for possible election crimes, two grand juries are selected in fulton county, georgia, today one of which will hear evidence already gathered by a special grand jury, and decide whether to bring charges against donald trump and his allies for their attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election in georgia. at one grant jury made up of 13 men and 13 women, the other made up 14 men and 12 women. these grand juries will each meet two days a week for two months. people selected for grand jury service include a retired firefighter, i courtroom flowy, a homemaker, an investigator, a

teacher, and an artist, according to nbc news. there's a report there was no mention during the public proceeding on tuesday of trump, or the election probe, although prosecutors met privately with both panels during a 45 minute break. district attorney fani willis has indicated indictments could be coming sometime in august. fani willis presented evidence that she gathered in the case to a special investigative grand jury which issued a written report in february. the recommendation for charges in that report was redacted. the jury foreperson gave interviews at the time, and acadia national park jury was recommending charges against more than a dozen people. it really did investigation, nbc news is reporting the federal grand jury hearing evidence and special prosecutor jack smith's investigation of the events leading up to the january 6th attack on the capitol met again in washington today with one of the special counsels lead prosecutors, thomas wyndham. that grand jury in washington

has heard from some of these same witnesses who testified to the special grand jury in fulton county, georgia, including georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger who was the recipient of the phone call from donald trump that sounded criminal enough for district attorney fani willis to immediately open a criminal investigation when an audio recording of that phone call became public exactly one day after the phone call. >> all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11, 780 votes, which is one more than we have. >> joining us now is glenn keys fleming, former district attorney in neighboring dekalb county, georgia. also back with us, barbara mcquade. gwen, to clarify for the audience to granted ureys paneled, one presumably to deal with the regular flow of

criminal investigations in fulton county and the other to focus on the election investigation. >> actually, i think both of them will focus on regular criminal cases that come through. obviously one of the two will ultimately get the special investigation that the d. a. has been doing into the 2020 election. we don't know which one. the reason i believe both grand juries will be looking at regular criminal charges is because, with a case of this magnitude, you want to get that grand jury time to get used to their roles, get used to each other, understand a little bit about the law. the dea, if it was me, i would present similar type cases maybe cases with multiple defendants, or if i had another

rico case so they could get an understanding of how to process witnesses and evidence in complex cases, so by the time, whatever it is, gets to the election matter, they have a few cases under their belt, and they are more comfortable and what their role and job to be. >> let's listen to some of what judgment bernie told the grand jury today. >> you are making a narrow decision, and it's what you make every time. that is whether there is probable cause to believe that the person named in the indictment, or persons, committed the crime, or crimes, that are set forth in that indictment. that is simply a reasonable basis to believe, reasonable basis to believe, not beyond a

reasonable doubt, that is what a trial is for, that is a high standard. if you find that there is probable cause, you must indict. >> barbara mcquade, jack smith is running a grand jury that is covering some of the very same territory. is this a race to see who goes first? >> i don't know that it is, lawrence. i imagine that each case has to run its course, and make sure that they have completed their work. although they are going along parallel tracks, i don't know that either is trying to beat the other. fani willis said, back in february, a charging decision in her case was imminent. here we are, in july. so, sometimes, cases take longer than even the prosecutor expects. you think you are at the last witness, that witness tells you about ten other people you want to talk to. i think prosecutors try to work at a rapid clip, but also they try to be as thorough as they can be so there are no surprises later. what do you don't want to

happen is prosecuting a case on probable cause. you need to win the case beyond a reasonable doubt. so, what you can't have happening is, some person coming in and testifying, saying i'm the one who did it, and all the perry mason tv shows. you have to talk to everybody so you get confidence there isn't anything you don't know about that case. that could take a long time. >> gwen keyes fleming, what happens in fulton county if, say, jack smith were to return some indictments in the next couple days involving a conduct that took place, say, on that phone call to the georgia secretary of state, or other things involving georgia? >> that's where it would get really interesting. let's remember this is an investigation that involved the citizens of fulton county. i think the district attorney will fight to ensure that the case stays in fulton county and the cases are not merged. obviously, we will have to see

what happens there. i think it is also important to remember that if rico charges are considered or there is a trivial on rico charges the georgia rico stature is very favorable for prosecutions, possibly more so than the federal statute. so, i think that would be something that should be taken into account as to where the jury and prosecutors would have the best opportunity to present the strongest case. >> gwen keyes fleming and barbara mcquade, thank you both very much for joining us tonight. >> thanks, lawrence. >> thank you. coming up, at the nato summit in lithuania president biden has solved every problem he was facing on his way to that summit there by securing his grip on what historians at least, will surely find to be one of the most successful, if not the most successful foreign policy presidencies since world war ii. ben rhodes joins us next.

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entered office with more foreign policy experience than president biden. he was chairman of the foreign relations committee in the senate then vice president for eight years with a heavy concentration on foreign policy. he knew more heads of state than any other president on the first day of the presidency. that experience shows in his remarkable strategic success imagining nato support for ukraine, after it was invaded by russia and the complex

ongoing management evades relationship with ukraine. the russian invasion of ukraine has made membership in nato all the more precious for countries in the region which is why sweden suddenly asked to join nato. this weekend president biden successfully overcame the turkey opposition to sweden's joining nato. today they announced they will allow ukraine to join nato at some point in the near future. in a statement the 31 leaders of the nato member states said ukraine's future is in nato. we will be in a position to extend the invitation to ukraine to join the alliance one allies agree and conditions are met. after nato issued that statement ukraine's president volodymyr zelenskyy, who had been sounding very impatient with nato, then tweeted this. today, i embarked on a trip here with faith in decisions with faith in partners, with

faith in a strong nato. in a nato that does not hesitate, does not waste time and does not look back at any aggressor. i would like this faith to become confidence, confidence in the decisions that we deserve. nato will give ukraine security, ukraine will make the alliance stronger. president biden scheduled to meet with president zelenskyy wednesday in the duenas. in an interview with fareed zakaria, president biden said this. >> i don't think there is unanimity in nato about whether or not to bring ukraine into the nato family now. at this moment, in the middle of a war. for example, if you did that then you know, i mean what i say we are determined to commit every inch of territory that is nato territory and it's a commitment we've all made no matter what. if the war is going on and we are all in the war you know?

we are at war with russia, if that's the case. >> joining us now is ben rhodes, former deputy national security adviser to president obama, and msnbc political analyst. he is the author of after the fall the rise of authoritarianism in the world we've made. ben, i think you very much for joining us tonight. it is -- it is not easy to cover the string of successes president biden has in foreign policy without sounding somehow prejudiced and his favor. the winds are there, the accomplishments are there and he has done it again with nato, and with this compromise that has brought sweden into nato. >> one way to measure these things other not in the news cycle, lawrence, is to keep in mind this is permanent, right? finland and sweden joining nato is a permanent change to the transatlantic relationship,

into american security. to put this into perspective, finland doubles the size of the border between nato countries and russia. sweden is a highly capable of military, i highly capable navy, a very large power of its own right in terms of europe. it expands the border on the arctic, expands the border along the baltic sea, which is crucial to defending nato territory in the baltics. these are tangible achievements that will last, and send a message that russia's invasion of ukraine has been already a strategic defeat for them from the perspective of nato enlargement, and greater solidarity in the lines between the united states and europe. >> it looked like turkey had a roadblock here that was not going to be overcome. president erdogan just had that air of not caring what anyone else thought battle. as it got down to the real decision, what do you think the elements of erdogan's decision where and does it include some sense of going with the winners?

>> it includes a sense of erdogan is an enigmatic guy. he pivoted back and forth between the united states and the west, and russia and china. he likes to have it all ways. he's been on his back foot recently. he won a narrow electoral victory recently. he mismanaged the economy. he is badly in need of an economic lifeline. he would like to buy more high-end military equipment for the united states, including f-16s, and that got put on pause while this was being held up in terms of swedish membership. he had these grievances he alleged about sweden not doing enough to crack down on kurdish terrorists. i don't think that's what this was really about. i think either one is a transactional guy. biden handled this very well. he didn't overreact to the delay he stuck to it. he let turkey think about its options. he probably made it known to

them that if they continue to block sweden, it would hurt and terms of their economy, in terms of security needs. he let that rest on erdogan's shoulders, and used the occasion of the summit to bring him across the line. it is a pretty effective use of diplomacy to shape the environment and choices around erdogan, and finally, now, we have the outcome that everybody wanted in terms of you know, a much larger and stronger nato and erdogan who is moving in the direction, not of putin, and not of china but in the direction of the west. >> ben rhodes stay with us across the commercial break so we've could consider what this means for vladimir putin because for decades we have wondered what vladimir putin will do if he was seriously threatened, and now we know. he retreated. he ran away in fear from yevgeny prigozhin as prigozhin was headed dumas go for an apparent knee. yale professor timothy snyder will share his thoughts on what that means for vladimir putin in the future.

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history professor timothy snyder has been an invaluable contributor to our understanding of russia and ukraine on this program. professor snyder is traveling in europe and he sent us some of his thoughts on the possibility of ukraine joining nato. >> we now know what happens when putin, the kremlin, moscow, is under threat, we now know that what they do is de-escalate. this has been true throughout the war actually through putin's entire urging. we saw it quite clearly and graphically when russian troops, russian mercenaries were on their way to moscow. what did putin do? how did he react? he reacted when there is an actual threat to his actual regime has person. he got on a plane, he went to another russian city, he presented a yacht, certainly

cut a deal that's what he did. he didn't escalate. he radically de-escalated. he tried threats. when the threats didn't work, he made a deal. i think we need to keep that in mind when think about consequences of nato expansion. there's nothing nato could do, nothing ukraine could do that is anywhere near as threatening us what happened to putin. it's worth mentioning reminding ourselves remembering those origins. remember, those origins, we remember nato is not about taking something which is perfect and keeping it so. it's about taking the center of europe, a place which where there are risks and reducing those risks by providing for calm and security. i think that is the spirit in which one should be thinking in which one should be acting at this time. one can't think about nato as an institution which is there to keep a perfectly stable situation, a perfectly stable. that's not what it was about, it's never what it was about. nato is about taking the situation which was risky and making it less so. nato has always had to operate in imperfect conditions. when nato was founded, it was

founded at a time when germany was divided. the most important member of nato except the united states was west germany the federal republic of germany, a country divided a country which had a claim on a good deal of territory that didn't control. >> ben rhodes is back with us. what was your reaction to what professor snyder had to say? >> there's a lot there. first of all, one of the points about putin de-escalating, that is very important. what i would add to that, putin's case, and some of the people concerned about this effort, has been, at times, on his side. the longer this goes on the more there is dysfunction in the west. the more he waits people out. what we saw with prigozhin, maybe a time is not working for vladimir putin, it is working against him. it is opening up cracks in his regime, and in that case it seems there was a physical threat on moscow itself.

it's showing us he is [inaudible] and all of a sudden -- [inaudible] most important thing we could do [inaudible] who would come in and try to wreck at all, who might even try to take the united states out of nato right? that's what's at stake in this election. that is probably what putin is waiting for. so i think professor snyder is right. we have to have a vision for nato that includes, in the long run, ukraine. joe biden is wise to not take that step yet. they are in a war, we can't make good on a collective defense assurance when they are in an active war. we have to remember, if we take care of our own business, we are stronger than russia. putin is weak. he is on the back foot. and time is not on his side. >> we have learned a lot since his invasion of ukraine about vladimir putin, same time we learned a lot about president zelenskyy and his strength. what we've been learning is the weakness of vladimir putin and that he has no success planned. >> he has no plan for what he's doing in ukraine because he

thought they'd fold. when he didn't, they didn't have a plan b. he has a kleptocracy that he said san, with those underneath. and all of them are just as crept as he is. there is a fundamental weakness, a roth, at the core of the putin regime that has been exposed by this war. it doesn't mean it's not dangerous. it doesn't mean that every day that goes on is not a human tragedy above all for the people in ukraine. it doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about the risk of nuclear escalation. i think what professor snyder reminds us is that we control our own destiny. nato determines what we are going to do. nato determines a kind of support for going to provide to the ukrainians. joe biden has been careful to calibrate that support, to test out putin would respond. what we have seen is the biden administration is calculated at each juncture, and could push more. we could provide more assistance. personally, i agree with that calibrated approach.

when it comes to things like nuclear weapons, you can't get it wrong. we have definitely seen the west get stronger and putting it weaker. >> ben rhodes, thank you very much for joining us on this important story. i really appreciate it. >> thanks. >> thank you. we will be right back. k. and keep it off with golo is amazing. i've been maintaining. the weight is gone and it's never coming back. with golo, i've not only kept off the weight but i'm happier, i'm healthier, and i have a new lease on life. golo is the only thing that will let you lose weight and keep it off. who loses 138 pounds in nine months? i did! golo's a lifestyle change and you make the change and it stays off. (soft music) how are folks 60 and older having fun these days? family cookouts! [blowing] [dice roll] ♪ playing games! [party chatter] dancin in the par—!

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11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts right now. >> tonight donald trump's delay tactics in the classified documents case seeking an indefinite postponement. legal strategy from donald trump's defense and classified documents case. his attorneys are asking the plus, the new grand jury in georgia that could soon decide on even more charges for trump. republicans'latest stunt to attack president biden backfires, big-time. james carville is here on the state of the gop and a whole

lot more. then looking ahead to tomorrow 's meeting between president biden and ukrainian president zelenskyy, as the 11th hour gets underway on this tuesday night. >> good evening, once again, i'm stephanie ruhle. we are seeing more signs of a legal strategy from donald trump's defense and classified documents case. his attorneys are asking the judge for a lengthy delay of his trial. judge cannon who will oversee the case from federal court in fort pierce, florida, had originally said in august trial date, and special counsel jack smith asked for december. late last night, trump's lawyers submitted a 12 page filing, requesting the trial be delayed until after the presidential election. the filing says that trump is, quote currently the likely republican party nominee. this undertaking requires a tremendous amount of time and energy, and that effort will continue until the election on november 5th, 2024. trump's team also implied that the case was political, calling it, quote, a prosecution advanced by the administration of a sitting president against his chief political rival, himself, a leadca