disapproval or instituting their own policy for banning books at the risk of losing crucial state funds. and although protecting libraries from censorship should not be a partisan issue here, let me note that the bill was passed by the democratic led state legislature with zero yes votes from republicans. the new law in illinois is a rare counter point to the headlines that you've seen across the country about attempts by conservative groups to remove books they consider unsuitable for children from taxpayer funded public schools and libraries, books which are largely about the lgbtq community and/or people of color. now, although illinois has passed the first law of its kind, it may not be the last state to do so. the new jersey legislature, which is, by the way, led by democrats is considering a similar bill. that's the show for tonight. see you again tomorrow. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. with republicans lashing out at the justice department following donald trump's federal

indictment, attorney general merrick garland is voicing support for special counsel jack smith. we'll show you his new remarks. plus new polling shows that trump's support among republicans is standing strong despite his mounting legal troubles. we'll break down those new numbers. and the judge handling trump's classified documents case, aileen canon, is coming under new scrutiny for having very little trial experience. that new reporting and so much more is straight ahead. good morning and welcome to "way too early" on this thursday, june 15th. i'm jonathan lemire. thanks for starting your day with us. for the first time since donald trump's federal indictment, we're now hearing from attorney general merrick garland. speaking to reporters yesterday, garland declined to answer

questions about the case, but he defended special counsel jack smith, the man that he appointed to lead the investigation into the former president. >> so as you know i can't talk about particulars of this or any other ongoing criminal matter. as i said when i appointed mr. smith, i did so because it underscores the justice department's commitment to both independence and accountability. mr. smith is a veteran career prosecutor. he has assembled a group of experienced and talented prosecutors and agents who share his commitment to integrity and the rule of law. any questions about this matter will have to be answered by their filings in court. we live in a democracy. these kind of matters are ayou'dicated through the

judicial system. the justice department will be vigilant to ensure that there are no threats of violence or actual violence. >> a new report in "the washington post" reveals that one of former president trump's new attorneys proposed last fall that trump's team could try to negotiate a settlement with the justice department in this classified documents case. but the newspaper reports that trump was having none of it. attorney christopher kise reportedly wanted to approach doj to see if he could arrange a settlement that could avoid charges and include the return of all the documents, but trump was not interested in listening to the plan so kise never approached prosecutors. that's according to three people briefed on the matter. tay say that trump instead took the advice of tom fitten, the head of the conservative group judicial watch and other individuals who told him he could keep the documents and

should fight the justice department. the paper reports several other trump advisers blamed fenton for convincing trump he could keep all the documents. he appeared before the grand jury and he was questioned about his role in both the mar-a-lago documents case as well as the january 6th investigation. he told "the post" he gave advice to trump but declined to discuss the details of their conversations. now, attorney christopher kise also declined to comment. he appeared with trump at the white house earlier this week. the close circle of aides and confidants may prove to be his biggest weakness. that's according to new reporting in "the new york times" which points out with trump under federal indictment and with people who currently or used to work for him seen as potential prosecution witnesses, pressure on those around him has only increased. as was the case with the house select committee's investigation last year into trump's efforts

to retain power after his election loss, much of the evidence in the documents inquiry has come from people in trump's inner circle, underscoring the costs and limit of loyalty to him. chief among the possible witnesses mentioned in the indictment is molly michael, trump's former assistant who worked for him in the white house and then went onto work at mar-a-lago, according to two people familiar with the matter. she's known as trump employee 2 in the indictment and told prosecutors that trump himself had packed and looked through the boxes contrary to what his lawyers had claimed. joining us now former assistant u.s. attorney for the district of columbia and now an nbc news and msnbc legal analyst, glenn kirschner. glenn, we're so glad you're with us today. let's start with that "the new york times" reporting about how these trump aides could be key to the prosecution's case.

give us your take. >> jonathan, it's actually reminiscent of what we saw during the january 6th house select committee public hearings where the voices, and certainly some of the most critical voices, the most incriminating voices came from republicans, so now we're seeing some former trump aides, which is also similar to what we saw in the speaking indictment once it was unsealed. you know, when you look at some of the most sharply incriminating evidence from the indictment, who is it coming from? people designated as trump lawyer number 1, trump lawyer number 2, trump lawyer number 3, or trump employee number 1, trump employee number 2. you know, it's really unusual to have nothing but allies or former allies of a defendant prepared to testify and make the case against the defendant, but that's what we saw in the j-6

hearings, that's what we're seeing with these trump aides and what we're seeing in the criminal prosecution. and frankly that doesn't bode well for donald trump because the typical line of attack when you're cross examining prosecution witnesses is the bias those witnesses have for one reason or another against the defendant, but virtually all these people frankly are in the defendant's camp and corner than they are against the defendant. >> keep our eye on walt nauta, the other individual charged, whether he initially decides to turn on the former president. so, glenn, let's talk about that "the washington post" story about how trump refused to consider a settlement plan last fall that was proposed by one of his attorneys. the proposal anyway would have avoided all of the charges and returned all the documents. two parter here. do you think the doj would have been open to such a settlement there, and secondly do you think the doj would be open to some

sort of plea agreement in the future, and what would it look like? >> it's impossible to predict what doj might be open to. i mean, i think we can look back to 1974 when for whatever reason the powers that be decided to resolve a potentially criminal case against the president and ultimately former president of the united states after richard nixon resigned rather than hold him accountable for his crimes. i think that sends at least an atmospheric signal that maybe presidents are above the law, and if they get caught violating the law, they can just sort of negotiate their way out of criminal responsibility. i think doj probably would have been receptive to a meeting, would have heard out the trump defense team on a possible settlement. i think it's foolish in the extreme for donald trump to have scuttled, you know, even a meeting like that. because, jonathan, when i was a federal prosecutor, i often was

prosecuting somebody who had criminal cases in multiple jurisdictions because i prosecuted in d.c., some of of my targets, in d.c. had criminal cases in maryland, had criminal cases in virginia. and we were always willing to sit down with the defense teams and consider what we call a global plea offer. what does that do? it resolves all criminal matters in one plea offer, or if the terms are appropriate one non pros, non-prosecution agreement. i'm not saying doj would consider that. but with donald trump having two indictments, one criminal indictment, one federal indictment, he's about to have the hat trick of indictments very likely. we don't know that for sure, but come august in georgia it looks like district attorney fani willis might indict him. it would have made a lot of sense for donald trump to at least be amenable to the possibility of discussing a global plea, a global resolution of all cases.

>> glenn, real quick last one. after the arraignment on tuesday you tweeted about the judge imposing no conditions on trump's pretrial release, and you asked if it was, indeed, equal justice. so give us your answer. was it? >> no, i think it's sort of deep injustice we see at play in our american criminal justice system with somebody like 21-year-old national guardsman jack teixeira, you know probably doing less security damage by virtue of the documents he mishandled. he went right into pretrial detention, and that is where he will sit until his trial date. pretrial detention wasn't even rauzed as a possibility for donald trump. i think that represents an injustice in the way two very loosely similarly situated cases are being handled. >> we hope you will come back soon, glenn kirschner, nbc news and msnbc legal analyst. we really appreciate you joining us today. still ahead here on "way too

early," a grand jury indicts marine veteran in the fatal choking death of a homeless new york city subway rider. we all saw that video. we'll go over the new developments of the case and some of the reaction. plus, first donald trump then ron desantis, and now another florida man may be throwing his hat into the 2024 race for the white house. i'll tell you who he is. those stories and a check on sports and weather when we come right back. sports and weather when we come right back type 2 diabetes?

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any questions? -yeah, i got one. how about the best network imaginable? let's invent that. that's what we do here. quick survey. who wants the internet to work, pretty much everywhere. and it needs to smooth, like super, super, super, super smooth. hey, should you be drinking that? -it's decaf. because we're busy women. we don't have time for lag or buffering. who doesn't want internet that helps a.i. do your homework even faster. come again. -sorry, what was that? introducing the next generation 10g network only from xfinity. the future starts now. welcome back. we take a look now at some of the morning's other headlines. a marine veteran who put a homeless man in a choke hold on a new york city subway will be charged with second degree manslaughter. two sources familiar with the matter tell nbc news that a grand jury indicted daniel penny for choking jordan neely to death back in may. video of the incident sparked social and political turmoil and

prompted renewed conversations about mental health, crime, and justice. penny says that before neely died he was being violent and threatening people on the train. neely's family says penny did not have the right to play judge, jury, and executioner. a representative from the manhattan d.a.'s office declined to comment. attorneys for penny vowed to defend their client and noted the standard of proof for the jury is very low and there's no wrongdoing except the video he held mr. neely in a choke hold for many minutes. later this week secretary of state antony blinken will visit beijing in a high stakes meeting to improve chinese relationles. both china and the u.s. have accused each other of provocations. this trip by blinken was originally scheduled for back in

february, but it was postponed due to that balloon incident. now his visit will look to ease some of the tension as he meet with senior chinese officials. nbc news reports that the u.s. wants to derisk its relationship with china, meaning it wants to trade with china while restricting certain exports. the u.s. also intends to continue to call out china for its alleged human rights abuses and growing aggression in the south china sea. blinken's visit is the first cabinet level trip to china by a biden official and the first by a secretary of state since 2018. now, another florida man is throwing in his hat in the 2024 presidential race. miami mayor francis suarez is set to launch a bid for the white house, he's a republican, according to paperwork filed yesterday. suarez may announce as early as tonight in a speech he has scheduled at the reagan presidential library in

california, so suburban los angeles there. and a political action committee is already committing a six-figure ad buy to support suarez in three early voting states, iowa, new hampshire, and nevada. the 45-year-old cuban american was first elected as mayor of miami in 2017 and will be the first hispanic candidate entering the gop primary field this cycle. notably, suarez will be the third republican from florida to enter the race of course former president donald trump and the state's governor, ron desantis. still ahead a subway series split at city field as the mets walk it off against the yankees. we'll also have highlights in major league baseball. sports next. e highlights in major league baseball. sports next. he has myplan. the first unlimited plan that lets her choose exactly what goes in it. now, she gets to pick only the perks she wants, and saves on every one. and with an incredible new iphone on us,

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to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. right field, defensive, bowers way back, still going back. it's off-the-wall.

a slow start on second base. he's being waved in. here he comes. does it, and the mets walk it off. >> you just saw it brandon nimo's rbi double walked the new york mets off with a 4-3 win and a subway series split against the cross town yankee. nimo made up for his base running blunder early in the game which truthfully is just a series of flubs by the mets last night including a pair of errors in the field that scored two for the yankees and they didn't get a hit as well as getting called for the second violation of the year's new shift restriction and they allowed a yankee runner to steal home. there it is. stole home in the seventh and scored the go ahead home. reliever drew smith accepted a ten-game suspension handed down by the league one day after he

was ejected for failing a sticky substance check. smith is the fifth pitcher in the league and the second on the mets to be penalized for the offense. max scherzer was the first. the yankees meanwhile will now travel to boston ahead of another weekend series against the red sox who played last weekend yankees stadium, this weekend at fenway and faced the red sox to avoid a three game sweep as they scored five runs in the seventh to beat the colorado rockies 6-3 salving one game there. to texas now. shohei ohtani, a two run left shot to center that had an exit velocity of over 116 miles an hour, making it the hardest hit home run to the opposite field by a left-hand hitter that's ever been tracked. the guy is just so good. but his effort too little too late. the texas rangers are legitimately good this year, the first place in the nl west to

beat the angels 6-3. sanchez made a game saving grab at the wall in the bottom of the ninth, robbing a would-be grand slam to help the marlins hold onto a 4-1 win, spectacular catch at the biggest possible time. now, this, the world's top golfers will tee off this morning at the 123rd usga open this time being held at the los angeles country club. matt fitzpatrick will become the eighth player to successfully defend. while for the ninth time phil mickelson will become the first ever to try to complete a grand slam. it will be the first played against the backdrop of last week's stunning announcement of a merger between the pga tour and the saudi backed liv circuit. time now for the weather and let's go to meteorologist michelle grossman for the forecast, and let's start off there. how's it going to look to

southern california for the next few days? >> looking really good. we're going to keep the winds light. starting out with a little fog today and tomorrow but mostly sunny skies. temperatures really comfortable to over the next several days. father's day weekend, the u.s. open nice there. otherwise the big story being the severe weather once again. we're looking at the threat for really large hail. we had 5-inch hail in some spots yesterday. that is giant hail. we're going to see today winds gusting up to 80 miles per hour in some spots and winds this morning in mississippi and alabama. that's going to be the bulls eye for some storms this afternoon and also the central and southern plains, hot and humid there. we're looking at the chance for some strong tornados as well. storms developing in portions of of the north east, the great lakes, and then kind of scooting into the midatlantic and lower parts of the north east tomorrow.

we're looking at 19 million people at risk for those winds gusting up to 80 miles per hour, large hail and a chance for a few tornados. where you see that darker red, oklahoma, parts of texas, that's where we're expecting the chance for severe weather. and another story heat alerts. we're looking at heat alerts stretching from western texas all the way to louisiana. so we are in a heat wave there. we're looking at temperatures well into the 100s. it's going to feel like 110 to 120 in many spots, so the heat warning that's that hot pink in parts of southern texas. dangerous weather there. we're going to need those air-conditioners, and 99 in san antonio and feel like 115 in corpus christi and 113 in brunzville. this is going to stay in place not only today but throughout the father's day weekend as well. >> it's just bruty hot. stay safe in the path of the severe weather. still ahead on "way too early," we'll take a look at how former president trump is doing

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welcome back to "way too early." it's just ahead of 5:30 a.m. on the east coast, 2:30 out west. i'm jonathan lemire. thanks for being with us. we've got some new polling that shows donald trump's support is holding steady among republican voters. in the latest quinnipiac university survey, 53% of republican and republican leaning voters say trump is

their top choice for the 2024 gop primary. that is within the poll's margin of error and essentially unchanged from last month. we should note the poll began last thursday. that's the same evening that trump announced he was being indicted, so this does reflect that moment. in second place is florida governor ron desantis at 23%. all other candidates polled at less than 5 persh. we should note, though, in a hypothetical general election matchup the polls show president joe biden beating president trump 48% to 44%, but of course margin of error comes into play there as well. it's close. meanwhile, we're learning more about former president trump's efforts to fund raise off his indictment. a campaign e-mail sent out yesterday claims his team has raised over $6.6 million since thursday. that's including the 2.1 million they say they raised on tuesday night during his post arraignment rally in bedminster in new jersey.

nbc news reporting this round of donations is less than what was raised in the days following his first indictment on those state charges in new york tied to hush money payments he paid to adult film star. his team raised $12 million that time. joining us now national political correspondent for politico meredith mcgraw. so great to see you. thanks for being here on set in washington. let's start with the fund-raising. you've got some reporting on this. what have you foundute? >> the trump campaign has been fund-raising aggressively off this just as they did last time when donald trump was indicted in new york, although this time the numbers aren't quite as strong. but really this does show that the trump campaign is continuing to push for their grass roots supporters, for their base to chip in with small dollar donations. the trump campaign announced they had about $4.5 million come in digital fund-raising, and right after trump's remarks at

bedminster, they had a candlelight dinner, a meet and greet with trump. he talked to some of his deep pocketed donors up in the new york, new jersey area and raised a little over $2 million off of that. >> so $6 million that's nothing to sneeze at, but does the campaign have any explanation why think it might be less than what they raised after the first indictment? >> i'd have to look at the time line, too, the $12 million is that a full week after the new york indictment? i'm not sure. it seems a pretty robust amount of money. >> and certainly his support remains robust. we just showed that quinnipiac poll that has him more or less unchanged. what's striking is just how far ahead he is above everyone else. it's a 30-point clearance of ron desantis there. what's your analysis there? is it simply his republican voters are staying with him no matter what? >> i think you're always going to have this base around 30 to

35% of the republican primary voters who are incredibly loyal to trump. we talk a lot about the never-trump voters. there are these always trump voters who are going to be with him no matter what happens. and after each indictment, he's now been indicted twice, i've been looking to see if some of trump's rivals are able to pick up so much of their own gains, but that really has not been the case in what we've seen. but it is interesting, though, after this indictment how we've seen some of trump's 2024 rivals kind of shift their messaging on trump. for a while they've been really reluctant to take him head on and to really criticize him, and i think you're seeing the door open to some of them talk a little bit more forcefully in their criticisms of trump. >> and then real quick, has the trump campaign previewed when we'll see him next, what his schedules are? >> yes, so trump is doing an interview on fox next week and also going to be appearing at the faith and freedom coalition where we're going to see some

other 2024 republican hopefuls as well on stage. >> that'll be a moment to watch if they take any criticisms to him while he's in the room. thank you so very much. still ahead here on "way too early," we're going to go live to cnbc for an early look what's driving the day on wall street. plus the fed stops its streak of rate hikes for now. the morning's top business stories are next when we come right back. n we come right back ♪ on your period, sudden gushes happen. say goodbye gush fears!

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just swipe and it lasts all day. secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. and hours later i still smell fresh. secret works. ohhh yesss. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. time now for business, and for that let's bring in cnbc's arabile gumede who joins us as always live from london. so yesterday's federal reserve meeting was highly, highly anticipated. most predicted the outcome. the fed reserve skipped a rate hike at that meeting but signaled that certainly more hikes could be coming later this year. so walk us through it, arabile, your reaction. we heard from jay powell and

also tell us how the market's reacting. >> yeah, so the markets have actually reacted fairly choppy yesterday, so a few gains, few losses. the dow jones actually managing to get some really good numbers there as well, still rising to those record numbers that we haven't seen in the market. but overall that picture coming through from the fed, really painted an image they're not actually sure on the next rate hike. i mean, their sentiment hasn't been to really be sure that indeed they will be hiking it their next meeting. and though even though they have said it will be very data dependent and they're going to pause for now, that pause doesn't necessarily mean they're actually going to start hiking again either because of the effect we are beginning to see on the economy. so they're saying there's a lot that still needs to be seen when it comes to this economy. the continued strength in the jobs market if inflation continues to go down, and you're getting a seps economically growth is remaining fairly high and perhaps they do have a case

to do that buzz they may find of course it's still above that 2% figure they're looking to gain and get back. >> arabile, the international energy agency says the world's appetite for oil is still rising. tell us more about their findings. >> yeah, so they expect that figure actually with regard to demand for this fossil fuel oil to still rise over the next couple of years, peak in the next couple then but actually fall off by 2028. so there is still demand in the market. in fact, if we give you all the numbers, they expect global oil demand under the current market situation will rise by 6% from 2022 right now to 2028. oil growth will then thin out from 2.4 million barrels per day, and that will then go to 400,000 barrels per day in 2028. so they're expecting it to peak

very soon there and pretty much thin out as really the world kind of moves to greener energy, finding ways to really get to that net zero mark as much as possible. chinese consumption also dipping off having seen that pent-up demand, so that's beginning to drop off quite significantly. for now demand growing, but that is going to slow down over the next couple of years according to the iaea. >> arabile, some news from your side of the pond, two of the britain's mobile phone providers have agreed to merge into the country's largest network. tell us about that. >> yeah, this is the biggest shakeup in the telecom industry in around ten years or so. both of those companies as well as ck hutchinson were probably unable to kind of beat the likes of bt as well or virgin media 02. they weren't offering the kind

of competition they probably would have wanted against bt or virgin media o2. instead they decided to come together and a deal they touted the last year, of course having seen the former ceo nick reid leave and this would be the right time to push this deal ahead as much as possible. of course it does await regulator thore as well and of course the worry could be it actually does change the media landscape as well as the telecoms landscape quite a lot. but there's major shakeup in the telecoms industry in the u.k. >> other breaking news just now from the u.k. the report finds boris johnson delivery misled parliament and had he not resigned he would have been suspended 90 days from his role there. boris johnson, still in trouble. we'll have more on that in the days ahead. cnbc's arabile gumede, thank you

as always. still ahead here on "way too early," there are new questions whether the judge that will preside over trump's classified documents case, whether she has enough experience to handle the trial. we're going to explore that question when we come right back. explore that question when we come right back or sharp, stabbing pains. ♪♪ this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. a pain so intense, you could miss out on family time. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older, ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles.

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welcome back. "the new york times" is reporting this morning that aileen cannon, the judge that preside over former president trump's classified documents case has little experience running criminal cases and may not be ready for a potential trial with a former president. according to the newspaper's reporting in cannon's over two year tenure just four of the actual cases she's been assigned have actually gone to trial. those cases resulted in just 14 days of her sitting as a judge in a trial setting. lawyers that have appeared before cannon describe her as

quote generally competent but also added this, this is demonstrably inexperienced and can bristle when her actions are questioned or unexpected issues arise. "the times" also reporting of the four cases she has presided over so far have all involved, quote, basic charges compared to trump's case which is likely to be one of the most important and complex legal matters in american history. cannon graduated law school back in 2008 and then spent 12 years as a lawyer, which is the minimum experience needed for a judicial nominee. that's according to the american bar association. joining us now former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama and an msnbc legal analyst, our friend joyce vance. so, joyce, let's start there. sort of startling when it's laid out like that just how little experience the judge has. what's your assessment? do you think from what you know that she'd be ready to handle a case of this complexity and

magnitude? >> so, jonathan, every judge who's appointed to the federal bench has to start someplace, but none of them have had to start with a case like this, and it would certainly be a difficult stretch. but here's the impact of what we know about aileen cannon's experience and much of the criticism is legitimate but only to the sense she's new to the bench like every other judge has been new to the bench at some point. there is no mechanism for disqualifying a judge because they're new or only tried four cases. in a situation like this you would love to see a judge with a lot of experience involved. you might even think that the court would, the judges amongst themselves, might have a conversation about how to make that happen. and there may even be an option down the road because this trial is very likely to be moved to the district's main courthouse in miami for security reasons. since judge cannon is the only judge in the court appearance

decision there could be some that might lead to change of management in the case. doj might ask for an option for recusal and that hasn't happened yet. >> we're many months from this heading to an insider courtroom, but give us in laymans terms just explain a couple to viewers. what are some complexities that cannon could face that would challenge, perhaps, a judge with such little experience? >> sure. so let's talk about the biggest complexity, and this would be tough even for a judge with significant experience. that would be amplified in her situation. and that's the introduction of classified material into evidence at this trial. there's a federal statute that sets out procedures for the government to share information with the defense, and then the defense lawyers have to designate what classified material they want to use at trial. and the judge is required to

make rulings up front. the reason all of this is done is so the government knows well in advance of trial what the cost in disclosure of classified information will be. the judge has to be decide how -- under the statute the judge is required to make those rulings promptly and the government can take an immediate appeal to the court of appeals. the court is to expedite that process. every step along the way in dealing with classified documents there's a lot of complexity. and judge cannon in the earlier matter when she considered the mar-a-lago search warrant showed very little expertise in this area and in fact was quite cavalier in her treatment of classified material. i'll give you one example. she was not focused on limiting the number of people that this highly sensitive information would be exposed to. >> so certainly there's been a lot of concern about judge

cannon not just her experience but the fact that in earlier stages of this matter she seemed to give the trump team a lot of leeway. and there's one of the worries she would really sort of delay, delay, agree to delay and really push the time line of this case even beyond the election next fall. what's your sense -- just tell us a little bit how much she can do that, and do we know anything at all, anything at all as to when the next step of this trial might be? >> well, second question first. we really don't know. what happens now is the discovery process starts, and you expect that once discovery starts in a case like this there will be some conferences with the judge. of course walt nauta, the codefendant co-defendant still has to be arraigned. that will happen at the end of the month. but then the parties will be off to the races on discovery, and the statute will compel some of those early steps to happen a little bit more quickly once the lawyers on the defense side have

the security clearances that they need. you know, the difficulty when you're evaluating a judge's performance is that federal judges, all trial judges, have a lot of discretion to run their courtrooms. does she set something a week out, two weeks out, four weeks out, that's entirely within her discretion, and there's not really a mechanism for challenging that. what the government might be able to challenge and possibly will have to challenge early to be honest with you is the earlier rulings. of course those rulings, they weren't just what lawyers would call bad rulings. any ruling where you lose is a bad ruling if you're a lawyer. her rulings were out of bounds, and the court of appeals made that very clear. if she makes an early ruling in this case on the classified materials or some other matter, then the government would be able to take an appeal to the 11th circuit. you can ask the court to reassign the case on remand, but

that's reserved for extraordinary situations where the judge really has demonstrated an inability to look at the case fairly and of course public confidence in the proceedings could be compromised. >> yeah, all great points. msnbc legal analyst joyce vance, thank you, and i'm certain we will be speaking to you again soon. up next here on "way too early" mike pence weighs in on a potential pardon for donald trump. and then coming up on "morning joe," we'll have the very latest on the classified documents cases including potential witnesses in the federal trial and new reporting on thwarted efforts to avoid an indictment in the first place. plus, we'll bring you an update on ukraine's counteroffensive against russia. nbc's richard engel will join the conversation on the heels of an interview he had with president volodymyr zelenskyy of ukraine. we'll hear from senator chris murphy ahead of his hearing on a national gun safety

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2024 white house hopeful and former vice president mike pence was asked whether or not he would pardon former president trump if trump were to be convicted on federal charges. take a listen to pence's answer. >> these are serious charges, and as i said, i can't defend what's been alleged, but the president does deserve to make his defense. i have a standard rule, i don't talk about hypotheticals. look, we don't know what the president's defense here is. i think he's entitled to make his defense, entitled to have his day in court. i think any conclusive by anyone running for the presidency of the united states that would prejudge the facts in this case or prejudge the investigation into president biden or his family is premature. >> joining us now senior nbc news national politics reporter jonathan allen who we should note was in south florida the last couple days covering the trump trial, landed back in washington after midnight last night, and is here this morning.

we are deeply grateful. >> i'm happy to be here. >> i hope that's coffee. so let's talk about where things stand and let's just -- first of all, it's almost become a litmus test in the republican party. he's done a good job of entering the conversation. he called everyone to have a pledge, commit one way or the other. we just heard pence sort of address it. talk about how other candidates are doing so. >> you know, it's interesting, say a litmus test but also in some way a dodge for those who say i would pardon donald trump, it's a way of them saying they think they're going to be president of the united states. by the way, i don't think he is guilty or even if he is guilty i don't think he should be in prison. that's an easy position to take. what pence did is a little bit harder position to take. at the same time, mike pence again showing his incredible ability to say a lot of words without saying a lot. >> it was certainly a word salad

there. it is reflective of that balancing act that we talk about a lot where these other candidates of course need to beat donald trump, but they're so afraid of alienating the trump voters whose support they will need. what kind of calculations is the campaign making as to how to handle this? >> i think generally speaking, their first idea is how to beat donald trump, right? if you're desantis and running in second and you think there's a good chance donald trump is going to fall out of this race and you can be aanointed, you have to balance that. for everybody else, they have to figure out how to get out of single-digits. >> we showed some polling earlier this year. donald trump's support has not dropped really since the second indictment. desantis is still 30 points behind him. every other candidate is 20 odd points behind desantis. do you see anything that could shift the dynamic between desantis and those that trail him? >> yeah, it's certainly possible

that those who don't like donald trump will decide that ron desantis isn't their horse, after watching him run and run and run and not get anywhere. perhaps they will move to someone else. none of the other candidates have shown they're going to take on donald trump first and beat joe biden. the audacity of the project of trying to beat two presidents is pretty amazing. and then you've got these guys trying to just break out of single-digits. but desantis has shown no traction. right now you got to look at the republican field and say donald trump is still the dominant figure in the republican party, not -- with the majority. >> maybe his support's a little softer this time around than last time, but it's not coming up in the polls, at least not yet. do we think the field has settled, or is there another republican who could jump in? and i'm mostly thinking about

virginia governor glenn youngkin. >> he has signaled he is thinking about it. he has not totally ruled it out, and maybe waiting to see that desantis falls, right? and basically all of glenn youngkin's team from his gubernatorial run is now working for ron desantis in one capacity or another so i think he's counting on desantis to fall and then trump to fall and then biden to fall, and he's sitting there in virginia not far from here thinking about it. >> give us a quick sense what's next for you, what story lines are you exploring? >> that's a great question. i think right now the real question is what happens with trump and how does he try to maintain what looks like a little bit of energy in his campaign. you were talking earlier about the fund-raising, how does he keep that going, you know, while trial drags on? >> we have never been here before, unprecedented political questions. nbc's jonathan allen thank you as always, and thanks to all of you for getting up way too ear